#346 - Beyond the Lamp: Rob Karsten on Building the Integrated Manufacturing Systems of the Future

In this episode of the FuturePrint Podcast, Marcus Timson speaks with Rob Karsten of Excelitas Technologies about the evolution of industrial inkjet and why its next revolution will depend on the complete manufacturing system—not any single component.

Drawing on more than two decades of experience in UV LED curing, Rob explains how the technology has developed from a specialist proposition into a reliable industrial platform. He also explores how Excelitas’s wider capabilities in UV, infrared, microwave and excimer technologies are helping the company support increasingly complex printing, drying, curing and surface-treatment applications.

The conversation examines where digital print creates the greatest manufacturing value, from packaging and direct-to-shape decoration to wood, building materials, printed electronics and functional coatings. Rob argues that digital technology is most compelling when it changes production economics by removing tooling, reducing inventory, enabling customisation and bringing manufacturing closer to demand.

Rob and Marcus also discuss the importance of reliability, total cost of ownership, measurable sustainability and the challenge of qualifying new industrial processes. They consider the growing influence of AI, machine vision, robotics and process data, alongside the need for connected curing and drying systems that can respond intelligently to changing production conditions.

Above all, Rob makes the case for greater collaboration between OEMs, ink developers, printhead manufacturers, substrate suppliers, automation specialists and end users. Customers do not buy isolated components; they buy reliable outcomes. The future of industrial inkjet will therefore be shaped by intelligent, connected and energy-efficient systems in which printing, curing, drying and manufacturing operate as one.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Industrial Print Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the latest episode of the Future Print Podcast. Welcome back to the Futureprint Podcast. Rob Carson of Excelitas, who's a frequent guest. Welcome back, Rob. Thank you, Marcus. Maybe I'm not sure. No, no, no, you're a frequent guest, but not too frequent if that makes sense. But I I wanted to invite you back because as you know, we're well, you may not know listeners, but we're writing a report focused on industrial print technology for advanced manufacturing. And when Rob and I were discussing, I thought it would be brilliant actually to go through some of the questions with you live at a podcast as well. So we're going to be focusing on the theme really industrial print technology for advanced manufacturing, the next revolution. And um, given Rob's um position in the industry, your experience of the industry and your unique kind of perspective, I just thought it'd be a really good interview. So um Rob, uh not everybody listening will know who you who you are and what you do. Give us a little intro as to who you are, what you do, and a bit about Acceletas.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Okay. Well, um, I originally got into this industry via Posion technology. So technology was the company that really brought the whole UV LED uh drying solutions in and curing solutions into the um into the print industry about 20 odd years ago. Uh and my role then, as one of the people that set up the company, we was to set up the European division. So I spent 20 odd years doing that, where we um became uh the key the key supplier for industrial lamps, UV LED lamps for the printing industry. And and I guess helped facilitate that whole change to this uh in digital printing to LED curing. And uh, since then there have been a number of other companies that have come on board, but I think we still remain one of the leading companies in this area. And then about three years ago, three and a half years ago now, we were uh acquired by Excelitas. Uh they tried to compete with us for a number of years and they decided, uh, what the hell would it? Let's just buy them. So we were ready to be sold and they were willing to buy. So we came on board. Um, and what's interesting for us is that uh years we've been, you know, just selling and focused on the UV LED technology. And then all of a sudden, we had all this uh microwave technology, we had infrared technology, we had Exymer technology, conventional UV technology. And all of a sudden it meant that we could start looking at a whole host of other printing applications that sometimes weren't UV or sometimes could be in combination with UV LED and infrared or Exzymer and looking at all kinds of different combinations of technologies. So initially we thought that would be really complicated and would cause difficulties, and actually for us, it it really opened up a whole new area. So it's a little, in effect, we never were involved in the whole water-based printing thing, right? So yeah, uh, and and now we're very much involved in that.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Brilliant. And it's um gaining pace in different areas. I know you're having some great success. What strategic priorities perhaps might be shaping your business over the next three to five years?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Well, I think our priority really is to move from being from being seen as a a component supplier to and and just not being stuck in that niche to becoming a more complete process solutions partner. And I think that's really what we're driving towards. I think it's very much what we're doing with Fosion, and I think we're trying to replicate that now with the you know with the Excel test portfolio. And so that involves bringing UV LED, conventional UV infrared technologies together, and in you know, engaging uh uh process monitoring and helping OEMs integrate these systems more easily.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, absolutely. And the key word I think is water-based. Yes. Um what industries do you believe are sort of present, present the greatest options and opportunities for industrial digital printing?

Where Digital Print Creates Manufacturing Value

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Um good question. Uh packaging and and labels will continue to grow, but some of the most interesting opportunities are in applications where printing becomes part of the manufacturing itself. Uh, these include direct printing onto bottles, industrial components, decorative wood, flooring, uh automotive interiors, building products, printed electronics, uh, and digitally by functional coatings, things like that. Uh, and the strongest opportunities are where digital printing does more than replace an analog process. So it may remove labels, reduce tooling, eliminate inventory, or let or enable products that were previously uneconomic to manufacture.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, and sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

I think, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, and I I think like you say, packaging and labels will continue to evolve, but actually there's a a number of new markets where it's like you say, where the it's perhaps where print is more functional in its in its delivery or its purpose and are opening up new.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, some of them are different timescales as well. Like printing electronics is like a slow burn, but we see that growing year on year on year, and more and more uh materials become available, processes improve, uh functionality of the printed electronics gets better. And so we've been at that for years, and and gradually we're seeing it uh you know a nice business evolving out of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, it's interesting how different industries adopt and evolve at different stages at different paces, and that and at that that yeah, that um continually um challenges and surprises on it. We like to predict the future, but maybe let's on that note uh around industry evolution, look back over the past decade, more historically, and what have been, in your opinion, the most significant technological breakthroughs in industrial printing?

UV LED Curing Becomes Industrial

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Um, I think personally, I think the industrialization of UV LED curing has been one of the biggest breakthroughs. I mean, 10 years ago, I mean, it was really only often viewed as suitable only for specialist or or low-speed applications. Today it can support demanding production environments, you know, with higher radiance, wide working width, and strong operational reliability. I mean, initially we built very modular systems of people worried about the reliability. And now people are quite happy to have UV LED labs two meters wide, right? So other advances include include, for sure, you know, um more capable printheads, uh, improved ink recirculation has been really important, better UV LED compatible chemistry, uh, high-speed single pass printing, uh, automated inspection and much more sophisticated software. And one of the things that we've been really involved in is UV pinning. This has also been important because it allows manufacturers to control dot spread and image quality before the final cure. And and we had a lot of debate about this initially at the very beginning. Because, oh, well, we could do this, we could do that, we could put kind of uh chemistry in place on the paper, but then that really drove up the cost of the substrate, and then we could only use that substrate, and printers are saying, No, I don't want to use any substrate, I don't want to be tied to this expensive. So Penning really found its its its own niche within digital printing and continues to grow and and play an important role in all the printing.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, and it's uh uh what's coming through already in the discussion really is that the the curing element, like you say, is much should be viewed much more as an integrated strategic choice and thought through at the beginning or the iteration of an innovation rather than oh, it's at the end of the process, so we'll worry about that. But it's from what you're saying, it's critical, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah, I mean they're all critical, right? Because it's a system, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's like you can't build a car without thinking about the tires, right? It's um anything afterwards talking about we should get some tires for this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah, yeah, can make a big difference. Um so that's technical and and and and technological, which is vital. But which developments do you developments do you think have had the greatest impact, perhaps on commercial adoption?

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Hmm. Yeah, I think you know, there used to, there was like a uh a battle of supremacy about power this and power that, and everybody's going, my has my lap has more power than your lamp and all that. But I think what really comes down to is is reliability as a matchup more than headline speed, right? And uh lamp power. You know, customers need confidence that a digital process will operate across multiple chips, right? And maintain quality and deliver predictable running results, uh, running costs, sorry. Uh and UV LED has has helped because it offers instant switching low heat and all that good stuff. Uh, but it's it's reliable, it's predictable, and every time you switch it on, it does the same thing. And it's not like the older technologies which could change and we're variable and we're temperature dependent and and had a lot of variability in them, whereas LED was just sort of boringly reliable. And at the same time, you know, we've had better inks, print ads, and workload systems have made the overall production process more dependable.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

So makes sense. Reliability, a kind of confidence that it's not a fragile uh solution, it's uh robust industrial.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, you know, it's there's no point in having a system that runs twice as fast, but it's unreliable.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah. Yeah, there's the guy next door who's got the system that's running half the speed, but it's constantly working. It's like the tortoise in the hair, you know, that old story. Sometimes it isn't always the fastest solution, that's the best solution.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah, yeah. It might not be the most exciting, but equally it's um it's the most powerful and gets long-term results, right?

Why Adoption Still Takes Time

SPEAKER_00 10:38

What aspects perhaps of the industry do you view as being progressing perhaps more slowly than expected? And why? Because we're sort of talking about, we want to hear about the exciting kind of journeys of transformation and everything else. But what aspects of the industry perhaps regressed a little more slowly than expected?

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Uh perhaps the you know, the replacement of high-volume uh sort of analog manufacturing has been slower than some people predicted, I guess. Um issues rarely for quality alone. I know you've got things like the substrate pre-treatment, ink transport system, curing or drying process, and downstream manufacturing that must all work together, right? So that means there's a lot to consider. Uh water-based printing onto films and non-observant absorbent materials. It's also progressed more slowly. I think as you know, drying water efficiently without damaging its substrate is technically difficult. Water needs a lot of energy. That's the beauty of the UV system, you know, compared to a water-based system. Uh and I think also industrial qualification cycles are long, particularly in automotive, medical, and electronics and construction applications. I mean, some of the stuff just takes a long time. Uh and and the trying to get things changed is is difficult.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So that would be that the the technology is perfectly okay to work in the environment, but the qualification and testing required to fulfill certain compliance obligations takes a long time.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah, because there's so many stages and phases and combinations of substrates and all these things that they can take uh it's a mountain of work to get through to you know to figure out where do you get the approvals for all these different phases through the whole project, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah, so it can slow things up, it's regulation. Yeah, yeah.

Demand Today And Retrofit Upgrades

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Okay. Well, market adoption then. Um where are you streaming seeing the strongest demand today? What because you're in this unique position where you work in a lot of markets, don't you? So where are you seeing the most excited or strongest?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I mean, our our strongest market in general is digital printing, and and within digital printing, we see strong demand in labels, packaging, uh, wide format in an industrial inkjet. So industrial-based printing processes, direct-to-object decoration, the very strong market for us. Um wood products and industrial coatings. I mean, the wood industry is going through a bit of a down cycle at the moment, but eventually they'll come back up again. Uh, usually tied in with kind of construction, housing booms, things like that. And I think the whole market is a bit depressed. So there isn't a lot going on in the wood industry, but that has traditionally been an interesting market for us. I think there's also um uh a lot of interest in converting uh existing UV presses to retrofitting to UV LEDs. So instead of saying, okay, I'm gonna buy a new press, I could take this 10-year-old press or whatever it is and upgrade it to an LED uh system. We've done a lot of that in in flexographic printing, we've done a lot of that in wood coatings, uh in so that just in improves the uh the drying process. But we could also do that for water-based as well. It doesn't have to be LED. We've put like IR boosters on water-based print systems that allow the air-drying tunnels to have to do less work because we put the IR booster up front, which adds more energy in in a very efficient way, uh, and then improves the the line process speed and in the drying properties of the inks, the water-based inks. So I think that it all ties into with customers you know looking for higher productivity. Everybody wants to reduce energy costs, everybody would like to have less maintenance costs. And in in factory floor space is important. So, you know, you you don't really want a 30-meter-long drying tunnel if you could just have one that'd be five meters long. So I think all these things are are are really important.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Excellent. Which application sectors do you believe in approaching perhaps mainstream adoption and which remain emerging?

Direct-To-Shape And Emerging Frontiers

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Because there is a there's two two fundamental stages: the early stage, where innovators and people pioneers get involved and do great things and everybody gets excited, and then there seems to be a lull. Yeah, and mainstream. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

And then you've got the you know, the the late adopters and and landlords and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So um digital label printing and white format UV inkjet are already mainstream, right? So we we see um and and and that's a a big, big strong market for us. I think where we're seeing a lot of growth and and strength is in direct-to-shape printing. So, in effect, removing labels altogether in the in that case. Uh, corrugated packaging is an area where we continue to see a lot of interest. Um how much uh adoption there has been in terms of the end users and buying these machines yet, I think is up and down, but I but it's certainly a super interesting market. Wood decoration continues to be interesting. Uh and then we start starting to think things like industrial component printing. We have customers that print on brakes and things like that, right? Uh with inkjet. Uh I think high-speed single pass systems are are moving closer to mainstream adoption, not quite there yet. Uh the things that are going to take a bit longer um are things like printed electronics, functional coatings, sort of conductive materials and printing onto complex three-dimensional parts, uh, you know, the remains are emerging. But then you've got people like Scientec, like you know, Clayton, and they're printing onto tennis shoes and all kinds of things like that. So that's really interesting, right? So it shows you that our companies producing mainstream equipment that can do that stuff with robotic handling, and you know, these processes all get better. So somebody makes a breakthrough uh like Scientex, but then all of a sudden you see, you know, other companies fail, yeah. Well, okay, you can do it, right? Let's let's try and make it work.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, and like you say, the variety is exciting. I think what you've gone through there is you mentioned high-speed single pass systems, presumably in a number of different markets with gaining traction and uh uh and so on. But they're equally on the more functional side, it might be classified as emerging. But sort of the headline to me says direct to object, direct to shape is becoming mainstream, and that's really exciting because that's still diversity. You mentioned no labels, yep, that's an issue, or or clearly uh an application area, but it's not just that, is it? It can be like you say, tennis shoes and other objects.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, I mean the direct to shape, I mean a lot of that, I mean, still a lot of it's still done with spring printing, right? But but growing on the inkjet side. But for us for UV LED curing or or um UV curing, you know, whether it's inkjet or whether it's screen or uh, you know, they're all combinations thereof, right? So sometimes people print the the bulk with screen and then then they'll use the versioning, use the inkjet to print different languages, different information, and uh so yeah, lots of different opportunities in that area. And I think it's uh and and again the nice thing about inkjet is that you can print smaller batch sizes. Absolutely it's really the camel, it's the the stuff inside the tube or whatever it is that uh yeah, brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Which industries which industries do you think will experience perhaps the fastest growth over the next five years if you were looking at industries going, well, actually, I can I can see that one starting to kind of accelerate in the next five years.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

I think packaging and labels will always remain important, particularly where versioning and shorter productions run, production runs matter, and and also partially driven by countries in some cases wanting to reshore manufacturing from other countries, which were economic because of very high volumes and things like that. But but if you're reshoring, maybe you can have more flexibility by versioning, shorter production runs. So I think that that has an important role to play in packaging and labels. Uh I I think we will continue to see strong growth in direct object printing, decor, wood, building materials and water-based industrial inkjet. Uh and then I again, you know, because we spoke uh just now about functional printing and digitally applied coatings, should also grow, although qualification I think is required to make the progress a lot slower.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Makes it a lot slower, but it but it's the tortoise that will eventually become the uh the shining example of um profitability. Yeah, and often and often to be to be honest with you, uh vast transformation often leads uh to a race to the bottom, doesn't it, in terms of profitability anyway.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Um it's usually something that everybody can do, right? So sometimes the longer, harder results you involve, you know, we end up with longer, more stable business opportunities, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the uh it might not sound as glamorous in on the one hand or as astounding and fantastic and exciting, but actually long-term sustainable profit is uh quite appealing, I think, in today's world, as in any world, frankly.

The Business Case Beyond Line Speed

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Um just thinking about the cut thinking about the customer or the customer drivers, what are the primary reasons customers invest in industrial digital printing today, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Um at a high level view, I'd say it's it's because customers invest because digital printing can change the economics of manufacturing. So, what I mean by that, it's removes tooling, reduces change over time, uh enables shorter runs, uh, supports customization, and allows production to move closer to demand, right? So you so you can be more responsive in effect. So, but it could also reduce inventory waste and time to market, which is kind of about closer to demand. Uh but the investment cases usually combine several of these benefits rather than just relying on one advantage right alone. So if you say, Oh, I mean, we used to think, you know, with LED in the early days, we're a little bit naive and say, Oh, yeah, the energy's having all the white because the energy's having to go, well, actually, yeah, it's nice, but I need all these other things as well. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

So it's it's multifaceted, and um that that enables more, hopefully, more conversion because of that. And um it's not one dimensional or two. Um speaking of purchasing decisions and customers purchasing decisions. Um what carries the greatest weight when people are can you know making those decisions to invest? Is it you know as you say, productivity, flexibility, mass customization? What what are the kind of um the the the you know the purchasing rationale or the most powerful reasons for investing?

SPEAKER_02 22:22

I think taking in all those things we just mentioned, that it's bringing those all together and looking at the total cost of ownership and process reliability. So I think reliability is super important. Uh and and they think they I think they normally carry probably the greatest weight. You know, I mean customers may be attracted initially by sustainability, customization, all those kind of things are kind of headline grabbing things, right? But the process still needs to produce an approved product consistently and at the right cost. So where they can get their attention with some of the headline stuff on energy and sustainability, ultimately, when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, you've got to be able to produce the right product at the right price. And so that's where total cost of ownership comes in. So productivity is also broader than just line speed, you know, it includes uptime, waste, maintenance, uh, energy use, labor, changeover, and quality losses, right? So or quality gains, right, that you can have from switching to one process to another. When you take all those factors together and have the total cost of ownership and the and and looking at the yield that you get out of a process, then uh that's much more informative than just saying, oh, it can run twice as fast, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, and it's particularly important, isn't it, the total cost of ownership, because otherwise people tend to compare one element, which could be um cost of fluid or inks or comp and which which may appear which may appear high compared to analog. So having that un understanding of total cost of ownership when investing in digital is really important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 24:09

No, absolutely, because the you know you do have certain elements of these processes that are more expensive inherently, um, but the the benefits they bring are are are far greater than the cost that they bring with them.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

So yeah, just interesting because obviously we've said look back over 10 years, but uh you know, so thinking about that with that in in mind really, in more recent years has the conversation with customers changed at all in terms of you know the kind of things that you were having to educate or share uh 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Anyway, I think 10 years ago when think when 10 well let's say 20 years ago when people were done laughing at us, uh but more recently, you know, when the tech sensor technology has really proved itself and become mainstream and in certain with digital and UV, IR, and all the different systems we produce. I mean, the question can be can digital printing re reproduce this image? That used to be the kind of question that's sort of like, well, we need offset quality, this, whatever. I think today customers, I think they really want to know can this process operate reliably inside my factory and and deliver a part that's acceptable and at the required cost. Right. So I think they're more looking at it saying to I don't need yeah, I need this image, I need this quality, but I need it to be reliably and I added it needs to be a reliable process and it needs to be cost effective. So it's no big good having again having a system which produces incredibly fantastic images, but it's not reliable.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Or it's just too expensive or too slow.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah. Yeah, I guess I guess that suggests it's becoming much more of a mature Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Absolutely. You know, customers are growing up, we're all growing up, but processes and technology and systems are getting better as we move on, right? So that helps as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, absolutely.

Integration Risk And Persistent Myths

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Um always nice to talk about future growth and everything and potential and everything else, but barriers to growth, because there always are. What remains the single big biggest obstacle preventing wider adoption of digital, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

I think it it's probably the difficulty of integrating and qualifying the complete process, right? So every this is a good lamp, that's a good head, this is a good ink delivery system, you know, in it in it, but it's bringing it all together because we're all from different companies. Uh so a faster printed or a more powerful curing system doesn't automatically create a viable production solution, right? So the ink, the substrate, the pretreatment, transport, curing, drying, inspection, and finishing stages all need to be developed together. Right. It's a process, right? And getting that process qualified is is um is is yeah takes a long time. Takes a long time.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

It's in your view on that mind, really, with technology maturity, investment costs, lack of awareness, and uh and to some extent conservative culture's a factor when people not making the decisions to invest. Because the technical capacities there, why are they not adopting? Is it uh you know, uh you kind of said it's perhaps it's a total cost of energy arguments not compelling enough. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

But I mean, I think all these factors matter, right? But integration risk is probably the biggest common issue. Um, manufacturers are understandably cautious about replacing an established process, you know, the kind of you know, if it works, they'll break it, you know, kind of mentality. And a digital alternative, you know, has to demonstrate, you know, good adhesion, has to demonstrate durability, color stability, good uptime, you know, regulatory compliance. So, you know, in some cases like low migration uh and all that type of stuff. And and it has to be and a reliable consumable supply as well, right? So I need when I get when I need the inks, I can get the eggs and the adhesives and the coatings and the varnishes and all the stuff, but I need to go with it, right? So that's important, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Are there still any misconceptions? Because I from hearing you speak, I I get the sense that the knowledge among customers about digital and what it can and can't do have got better. Uh as the top technology to supporting it become more reliable and so on. Are there still misconceptions about industrial digital printing?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Uh, but I think a lot of people still view you know digital printing as only suitable for short runs. And it can also make uh sense for high volumes if it removes tooling inventory and more manual process stages like preparing screens and stuff like that. So um I think the crossover point between digital and analog is moved way up the chain, and and maybe some people haven't quite got there yet with that. Uh another is that UV LED can replace every conventional UV system without changes uh to the ink or process. I think that was a big problem at the beginning is oh, just give me an LED lamp, but this wave length, or you know, it'll be fine and it'll work. I'll just get you with my UV system. And of course that never worked. Uh and then also they said, Oh, well, I need I just need a UV lamp that replicates uh an ARC lamp. Well, that didn't work out of the right save. And um so I think you it that's where you go back again and say, look, we need to design a process that works around every you know all the components within the system. And and then we have success. We used to use the analogy of the three-legged stool in in uh fose on a lot, where we said, you know, there was the you know, the the materials, the the uh the light source, the curing system, the the the system that applied the materials and and the materials themselves. And if any one of those three was missing, it was never gonna work. Right. Yeah. They all had to be involved in the process, I guess, you know, not you know, together, right? Not ex not not uh individually.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, yeah, makes sense.

Smarter Curing Control And IR Reality

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Um just technology roadmap. What technical developments do you think would have the greatest impact on accelerating adoption? And are are we are we pretty much there technically? We don't need we just need to continually evolve and improve, or is there anything that can be breakthrough in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Um I think things for UV caring, I guess we need you know, we constantly strive for a higher dose at higher speeds, you know, we have more wider systems, and we just released a couple of new systems for for um very care in different widths to cope with all the you know the wider systems. Uh in uniformity is also an issue, although LED systems tend to be very uniform. Uh, I think where we could see more innovation perhaps is in better monitoring and more intelligent control and feedback between lamps and processes and machinery on a continuous basis that that gives real-time feedback to the operators. And I think that could be good. Uh for UVE drawing, I think the priority is more probably around wavelength optimization, so making sure we're using the right wavelengths for the right opportunities. And again, people can kind of railroad it down one route and thinking, well, that's this because it has that property. But in reality, you know, it's a more nuanced and complicated um decision. Uh so you know, you need efficient combinations of infrared uh and and air using closed temperature control and sort of reduced heat transfer into sensitive substrates and all that is quite complicated. In effect, our infrared drying solutions are actually very complicated in terms of their understanding of all the materials and kind of UV in a way is is is more straightforward. Makes a lot of sense, yeah. I think you know, certainly better integration and simpler process setup would be uh would also be important as increasing maximum power, right? So better integration, simpler process setup, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah. Okay. Um where do you expect to see the next big breakthroughs? So if you think about all the technology portfolio that you need that goes into the creation of new digital printing systems that may operate in a variety of industries, where do the where do you see the biggest breakthroughs coming from? Printheads, ink, software, automation, robotics, AO, workflow, curing materials, or something entirely different?

SPEAKER_02 33:11

I think individually people always continue to strive to have breakthroughs in their area. But the real breakthrough from the user perspective comes through from combining these technologies, right? We all strive to have our own individual, but but you've got to have that whole uh combining these technologies together to give a better process. So you know, printheads will continue to improve, but chemistry, robotics, machine vision, software, and curing or drying control must progress alongside it, right? So you you've got to have everything in in harmony, so working together. And I expect curing and drying systems become more active process control devices rather than passive sources of energy, I think going forward. I think that's um they become more integrated into the system, not just on, off, up, down, but it's sort of like giving feedback to the to the user. And that's something we're actively working on and ideas on that.

unknown 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

And are there any sort of technologies within the you know, maybe the specific area you're developing, which is the Q, which is incredibly important, of course, not all the others, but any technologies are currently perhaps a bit underappreciated within that.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Yeah, it's interesting you say that because we used to um when we were just purely UV LED, and we used to see the we used to see the infrared systems, and we used to joke with the guys from the infrared systems that were just glorified toasters, right? Oh, yeah, more complicated than we go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now we're part of it, and and now we see and we go, actually, it is really complicated. So I think there is um uh an underappreciation sometimes with infrared in terms of the wavelengths, right? And uh in terms of the printing process. And it too often people go down one route without really looking at all the implications of different wavelengths there are, and we we we have a vast range of infrared solutions, and they all have different roles to play in different processes. And and and within all that is the understanding of the air handling within that. So it's all well and good getting the moisture out of a substrate, but then it needs to get out of the process as well, right? So you need to have uh, and we have some very sophisticated modeling and extended test to show how we do the air handling and the heating, uh, and then we have our own test labs in Germany where we can actually run these processes. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

So I oh sorry, what else was I gonna say? Um so I what I'm trying to say basically is that an IR system should not simply, it's not just by heating the product, right? It's not like you know, we sarcastically called it a toaster, but um, it should transfer energy efficiently into the ink and or coating by removing moisture from the process. And and that's where I'm learning a lot from my colleagues at Excelitas. So UV pinning, hybrid UV systems, surface pre-treatment, thermal manage and real-time process monitoring are probably also underappreciated to some extent.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Okay, and that's that's a a process you're going through in terms of because you've got that unique position with all these different curing checks that you can deploy for different things. So I guess that's uh that's a fantastic, um, unique uh um you know uh position that you're in.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Um that's where the you know the user really relies on us to divide that. Yeah, and so we're trying to do this, but okay, we say, well, actually, you know, so what do we think we need that? Well, actually, looking at it, what you really need is probably this and and um and these technologies solution. And so but that takes longer, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah, no, of course it takes longer, but it gets but it gets a better result in the end, which makes sense.

AI Optimisation And Connected Factories

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Talking about getting better results, artificial intelligence and advanced manufacturing, how do you see AI influencing industrial printing in the future?

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Um, yeah, um, I guess from the um from the printing, say the print out manufacturers, I mean they're immensely complicated things, printheads, and I guess the AI will be part of the optimization process of of um of printheads. I could see how you know the uh in our light sources for UVDOs or IR power, temperature, uh, line speed inspection, and and and energy use can all be optimized using AI because it's good at jumping lots of different inputs and and and optimizing those. And I guess you know, from the user's perspective, things like maintenance planning, production scheduling, and I guess process development, AI is good for that. Um what else? Um, I mean, over time, AI might help predict uh the most effective combination of substrates, ink, wavelength, and process settings before uh you know extensive um physical testing begins, right? So you say, okay, let's let's um bit like combinatorial chemistry where they kind of try all the different combinations of all the things before they settle on the ones that they really want to invest in. And I think AI could to some extent say, but obviously it needs the correct information about the inks, their properties, uh and their um the substrates and the print process. And you put all these variables in there, it's sort of look at and say, well, most likely combination is this, that's where you should start. And then, of course, there's the whole then um putting it into practice, right? Which is the difficult bit.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it could be quite on one hand strategic and on the other hand quite tactical and um it has value in both places. But where you see it primarily adding value, really in uh helping improve production efficiency, quality control maintenance, workflow optimization, or customer interaction, even to some extent, or in or will it create entirely new business models?

SPEAKER_02 39:32

I think it it's going to be very important. I'm thinking it's like design of labels and stuff like that for sure. Um initially its biggest impact will probably be on efficiency, uh, quality control, predictive maintenance. Then over time, as we we really learn uh you know how to use these systems, and as they get better at a frightening pace, uh it could enable automated recipe um uh creation, I guess remote optimization, uh digital twins and performance-based service models, I guess could all be kind of AI-ish stuff that can that can evolve, right? However, you know, at the end of the day, AI will only be valuable if it receives reliable process data, right? So you know, it used to be the old adage garbage in, garbage out, right? So you I guess that's why they train them on such large um uh data sets in order to kind of minimize the amount of bad information that goes in there. But I know they're you know that is really important, is making sure that the quality of information that goes into the AI is correct. So there are more companies or some of the bigger companies that have their own AI models trained on their own information, and they and they can have a much more bespoke and customized solution for them that that understands their requirements. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that that's that's the other way. I think you know we have the kind of the generalistic AI for everyone, but I think you know the biggest, smarter companies will have their own AI, which is trained around their processes and their inputs and their data, and they'll probably ring fence that data from the general AI and say, yeah, we're just keeping this for ourselves so that we can be smart about our process.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Um obviously data and input and human in intervention and um at that with AI it radically enhances its success, isn't it? Um but in terms of human intervention between perhaps printing systems and wider manufacturing environments, how important is connectivity in that regard, in terms of manufacturing? Um in terms of you mean the the uh Yeah, between printing systems and wider manufacturing environments, how important is connecting? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's essential, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, printing systems have got to communicate with you with factory software, I guess, robots, inspection systems, digital front ends and traceability platforms, all that kind of stuff. But the cure, you know, the curing and drying systems should also understand the product, the substrate, the line speed, and required process missions. And then it reports its its um its performance back to um the to the wider uh manufacturing system, right? So again, that's kind of like what we were talking about, where we saw the advances for products at some point. And I think that's all about smarter, more intelligent lamps and products and that feedback into the system uh not every once in a while, but continuously, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah, yeah.

Sustainability Evidence And Global Pressures

SPEAKER_00 43:01

And sustainability, is it uh it's always been something that I know is integral to initiative now it said it's us and uh and obviously it's a lot about efficiency of energy use and production um and so on. How important is it for your customers as a purchasing driver?

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Well, I think you know sustainability is important or energy usage and all that, it is particularly when it reduces operating costs, right? So then that's it's got a tangible benefit. You know, having just a green agenda is difficult. I mean, obviously UVLAD reduces heat, maintenance, and energy use. And it gets, you know, does all the kind of nice green stuff like eliminating mercury from the curing source. Uh and and then a a well, but it still has to deliver on on the uh operating costs, right? And well designed red systems also uh Although they use a lot more energy in a UV system, but there are processes that have to be infrared. And in those cases, you can have significant energy savings by making sure you're using the right system in the right way. So by delivering, you know, sort of the energy more precisely to the incher coating, then you can avoid a lot of excess energy consumption.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Okay. What sustainability improvements do you think will have the greatest commercial impact?

SPEAKER_02 44:31

Um I guess uh it's some way of being able to measure the performance, I think, can still create a competitive ad advantage. Um customers increasingly want evidence such as uh energy consumed per square meter, waste reduction, lifetime, carbon savings and stuff like that. But broad environmental claims are no longer kind of sufficient.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

No, no, so yeah, deep being a competitive advantage, it's about it being evidenced as such, and yeah, it it's much more granular, and like you say, this does generally a good thing for the environment, you should buy it. It's it's part of the the wider mix of the decision-making um process, I'm sure. Um what uh uh yeah, I mean, improve improvements um will generally reduce environmental impact, improvements of your technology, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yeah, yeah. So I guess uh what what would have the most commercial impact, I guess what you're trying to say. The most uh the most valuable improvements, I guess, will reduce environmental impact and manufacturing costs at the same time. So I think one without the other is a hard spell. Um so intelligent energy control, efficient UV LED curing, improved water-based drying, reduced startup waste, you know, fewer reject products, and and longer equipment life or all add to that kind of um that sustainability cost manufacturing cost balance, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Absolutely. Um sustainability is obviously a continual um theme and factor and has been for many years and will always be, I guess. But it seems that it seems that the world's now to turns with continued you know geopolitics, uncertainty, continued introduction of regulations as well. How how uh geopolitical and global and changing global supply chains influence strategy from your point of view? How's that affecting?

SPEAKER_02 46:51

I think what it has may do is customers focus on on the value of their supply chain security, right? So we've we've seen that's led in some cases to reshoring or not investing in in certain countries where, if you like, they're extremely long way away and and and and difficulties in in getting reliable supply with all of a sudden crazy tariffs being introduced. Um regional support and long-term product availability. I think customers need to think about that more as part of the makes of of their whole supply chain strategy. Um I think that encourages more resilient sourcing. In some cases, maybe modular product design, um where you can make different bits in different areas, and and uh you can have one bit made there, maybe that's kind of the bulk of it, and then you can have that customized more locally. You know, stronger lifecycle management is an important thing, I guess, and uh and and better availability of critical spare parts, possibly.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, and it's being uh that agility not just agility, isn't it? It's responsiveness and being able to adapt quickly. Um we've been talking about reshoring for 15-20 years as a trend that people anticipated would happen more and more, but I don't think it really did. But do you get the do you get the the uh the impression that customers are start are genuinely starting to reshore and regionalize their manufacturing?

SPEAKER_02 48:30

I think I think in some cases that's the goal, but I think we're probably seeing more is is is something like maybe we call it selective regionalization. Okay, rather than complete reshoring and taking elements of what they're doing offshore and and bringing elements of that back. You know, in a way it's interesting because digital digital printing supports this trend because it allows uh smaller quantities to produce closer to demand without excessive entry or tooling investment, right? So you said, well, okay, we'll we'll bring part of that process back. Maybe that's the the finalizing, the versioning of that product rather than doing that abroad. We'll you know we'll import the bulk um product and then closer to where we need to deliver it, we'll we'll we'll get it customize it to what we want. That's what that's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yeah, so it's not it's not it's not a kind of a big C change, but like you say, selective regionalization to enable that responsiveness and adaptability make sense over the long term rather than radically changing how things are done in the short term. Um regulation, some might say that Europe has become an innovator in creating regulation that the rest of the world grudgingly aligns with to some way, shape, or form. How important are regulation and legislation in in actually driving in driving innovation?

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Oh boy, yeah. I mean you could say it stifles innovation at some level, but but obviously it's increasingly important because we have to deal with it. So rules relating to energy, you know, uh hazardous materials like mercury, VOCs, uh, food contacts, all the little migration stuff, worker safety and recycling. I these all influence technology development. Um and then, you know, also like all the materials that get banned have a big impact on all the inks and coatings and what systems work or don't work. And I mean, a lot of the chemistry companies have been really clever at figuring out ways how they can get around it. Well, trying to get rounded in terms of avoiding it, but but be able to find solutions that will work. Uh and I think uh in order to make that work, you really have to look at um you know, redesign of the complete process in many cases. So that's um really rather than trying to replace one component in the process. And so yeah, it's complicated, right? And all these things have a big impact. And uh and we uh we are quite tightly regulated in Europe compared to other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Yeah, yeah, we are. I mean, I think you well, Europe in particular is probably the leader in uh regulation if there's such a thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Is that you could argue in some ways that having these regulations are like a non-tariff barrier, right? And and they say, Oh, Mr. You know, Chinese company can't bring your product in here because it doesn't meet our regulations on this, that, or the other. And and if that's all fairly applied, which I guess maybe some people argue it isn't, but you know, that creates a kind of a non-tariff barrier, yeah. Which is things things that people don't necessarily talk about that much.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Indeed.

Partnerships Standards And Shared Testing

SPEAKER_00 52:08

And innovation doesn't well rarely happens in isolation, does it? I mean, and successful projects often require a lot of collaboration in order for the right result to be achieved. Um industrial printing is clearly an example of that. How um how important is partnership in your own strategy? I think partnership is fundamental.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

I mean, we've um that's been very much in our DNA from day one, right? We weren't we were always there to try and learn about the process, work with the customers together, whether it was the printing head suppliers or it was the the I think most of our work probably was initially done with the material suppliers more than any of them in terms of getting the processes that couldn't work, but it was fundamental. And um you couldn't do it without that. I mean, we you know, no single company controls the printhead, ink, substrate, curing system, software, and manufacturing process, right? So successful projects require uh close collab cooperation, collaboration, cooperation between OEMs, print ed companies, the ink formulators, the substrate suppliers, the automation businesses and end users, right? You've got to have inputs from all these to work together to create something that works. We've seen too many projects where the company's gone off on one, developed something, and it all works really well, but they really haven't engaged with the end users. And they've got this mighty whirlet sort of a machine which does all these fantastic things, but it's just way too expensive. Did you ever ask anyone what they would want to pay for something like this? You know, uh, we've just seen that recently or a project. I mean, it's beautiful machines, wonderfully made.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Too expensive.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

But it's just too expensive, nobody wanted to buy it.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Yeah, I mean, that's critical.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Yeah.

unknown 54:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

You know, difficult ways of doing something almost as good, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Yeah, well, pain painful realization, I would imagine, toward the end that no matter how good this thing is, it's just the price points are not right for the market. Must be a painful realization. Um obviously that's an example of collaboration that perhaps hasn't worked uh worked quite work well enough. But any areas of the value chain require closer collaboration then?

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Um I think if you could do it, uh I mean this is always a tricky one, isn't it? But but you know, if we could get closer cooperation or around ink, wavelength matching, you know, water-based drying, adhesive, food contact. You know, if you could get kind of closer collaboration around all these kind of things working together, I think that would be um that'd be interesting. I think sometimes the difficulty is though there's too much fence vested interest and the you know a lack of willingness to share information but that that inhibits that. So that's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

I mean in an ideal world, yes, we would do all these things, but yeah, in an ideal world would be it'd be freedom acts free freedom of access, wouldn't it? How can the um industry perhaps improve that knowledge sharing then? Because I I do think there's a it's not it's not an enormous community of people that know how to do what you do and while call projects you work. So really you're sort of thinking ahead, really, how can we improve knowledge sharing?

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Well, exactly that, you know, sharing testing. Um, you know, we have test labs in in um uh uh in various facilities around the world, uh in in Germany and Elsenau, uh, and and then just doing joint demonstration lines. So working together with um uh customers to show or with um our suppliers to show customers how uh the whole process works, right? Um and but I think also part of the complication there is that we don't really have a standardized way of kind of really just measuring performance and to say, like, okay, well you know, you know, we're comparing apples and bears and bananas and grapes and things, and so they're all fantastic, and you need to eat five of them a day, but I don't know which one is the right five, right? So uh and so we need to kind of find ways of of having more maybe more standardized uh metrics in order to be able to do uh much quicker comparisons, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

No, it does, yeah, like a reference point that you can chart chart your uh progress against performance with makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

I mean, it would you know we could also uh publish more validated application data and be prepared to discuss unsuccessful trials, right? What didn't work. Um is it's failure is is obviously quite often the best way to learn something, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Yeah, because if you channel the fact and the pain and the the inconvenience in the right direction, you you you have a sharper focus on the right outcome, don't you? That uh as it might be, it's uh part of the part of the journey or the innovators' journey, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Yeah, well no, absolutely. I mean, we've had multiple um projects around using UVC, LED, and and UVA and all these kind of things and different combinations and what have you to try and and and create like the ultimate lamp. And it's been really difficult. Yeah, but we've learned a lot along that process about what works and doesn't work, mainly through the failures of stuff that didn't, which was kind of you thought, obviously, that's gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

As I said, I think the the people, the level of expertise and experience within chat and and developing the technology into a diverse set of markets, it's quite special, I think, quite unique and quite rare.

Skills Gap And The 2035 View

SPEAKER_00 58:38

And thinking about the future really, and the not just the future, but right now, but going into the future, how are we going to deal with skill shortages becoming an issue both for production environments but also for technology development community as well? The people like you that are developing then, leading the technology, are skill shortages limiting future industry growth?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Yeah, um skill shortages, I guess, are I mean it's kind of absurd, isn't it? At one level, we're talking about over a million young people being neat, not in education, employment, or training. Uh, and and then on the other hand, we're looking at the print industry and we've got a shortage of skilled people. Um, you know, the the opportunities need to be brought to the people and they need to be able to be done in a way that that is attractive for employers to do this, right? Uh but there should be some commitment then that the people who've done the training, you know, stay in the business because what's the incentive for the employer to do it otherwise? It it's it's a complicated issue, but I think um the um it's a it's as much a kind of a policy decision as it's um uh also how we present it out to the industry, right? So so the biggest shortage is people who understand several parts of the process. Uh industrial printing obviously requires knowledge of inkjet chemistry, UV curing, thermal processing, materials automation, uh manufacturing engineering. So it's it's kind of multifaceted, I think, you know, to people who've got more of a technological kind of stand, I think this could be really interesting. But it kind of gets presented as kind of grubby old print presses, right? All covered in ink and smelly and dirty and noisy. And you know, we need engineers who you know who can combine process knowledge with data and AI, machine vision, robotic, all this kind of stuff. So we need you know stronger skills and sustainability um you know in in digital workflow design. But at the same time, we need to present you know the industrial printing as an advanced manufacturing than traditional grubby kind of printing thing where everybody's just covered in ink and looking like they've just come out of a coal mine, right? So it's um, you know, I think there's some really fascinating aspects with robotics, with software, with optics, chemistry, and now AI and material science. You know, that's compelling as a career position, right? For people who want to be able to go in and and and have a multifaceted career where they're doing lots of different things. And and let's face it, you know, the as the print processes improve, they become a lot cleaner, a lot quieter, you know, and it becomes a much more you know, nice working environment with lots of interesting things going on, a lot, you know, training on all kinds of different machines and equipment. And I can't believe that there are a million kids out there and that none of them are interested in doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yeah, I mean it's I I I'm there. I'm not I'm I'm not in the right age group and probably don't have the right skill set either. But anyway, yeah, I I think from what you're saying, it's it's absolutely right. It's positioning thing, isn't it? And it's not a traditional printing environment. This is advanced manufacturing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Yes, absolutely. But that relies, you know, and and that's that's a whole kind of big picture view that needs to be supported by government. You need to have the right policies and procedures in place to kind of emphasize support and and and um and give the kind of incentives to industry to drive that, right? And it I'm I'm sure printing you know companies um need to be able to have their own initiatives to bring people in because otherwise they're not gonna have any business, right, in 10 years' time because how many of these people are in their 40s, 50s, or even 60s or older, right, that are still there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

I say I see this for for for Inkjet to be a big issue for the development community, the community you're in, or the future that serves. The people that work at the Inkjet head companies, the people that work at the main companies, the curing companies, doesn't it? And and and like you say, the integrators, the people that are bringing it all together. I think that that's a big issue that we, you know, we you look at traditional print graphics and that, and there are groups, next generation, and they're and they're working on that fact. We're not, or you know, maybe we should, but uh maybe we should do more too, because like you say, this bit, the development of the technology as an advanced manufacturer is very cool, but requires specialist people. Yes, you probably need to have the right degree or PhD, or or maybe not. Uh I don't know, but it's the experience because I I I wonder if we'll experience at some point a brain drain where people retire and that that knowledge base, that knowledge base is not there. Yeah, it's is the succession planning has not been done.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

Maybe there's a there's a role for you guys to play in all this markets, right? With with um future print um protecting the future of print.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Yeah, it's calling the next generation though, isn't it? It's kind of because it is the experience that you need, but the young um clever people don't necessarily come to our events or come, you know, and that's not because they're not invited, but perhaps the age group and the problem far enough, wouldn't you? Yeah, it it's something that you know we may do more to address, Rob. So I enjoyed talking to you about that. Um just looking ahead, really, apart from the the the skill shortages issue, uh how different will industrial printing be in 2035 compared to today?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

Um I think going forward in in in 2035, and so it's dangerous, isn't it, quoting a quoting a year? But I think the the printing will be much more deeply integrated into automated manufacturing. And part of the reason that will be because of um skill shortages, right? So we'll be lacking a lot of skilled people in order to manage the processes. So the only way we can do that is if if we de-skill the manufacturing process, and then so that means a lot of clever integration in all the print processes in into more automated manufacturing. We might use a lot more robotics. Um I don't think we we'll have a lot of androids walking around. But in terms of machinery, uh, I think machine vision it remains a constant growing area, which is really interesting. And I guess AI is is is really good at that kind of shape recognition and. image recognition um and and can be used to kind of do automatic process control i guess to some extent that exists already uh but that'll become even more sophisticated uh and i think that'll become you know the the idea that you know the distinction between printing coating manufacturing kind of really where does one start the other stop and the boundaries become quite blurred and in in it just becomes part of an automated manufacturing process and I guess you've already answered to some of the applications that may seem niche today I guess will become very mainstream by then direct to print direct printing on a variety of uh in a variety of industries yeah yeah we've seen already I mean I think things will grow like digital wood finishing printed automotive interiors uh water based packaging you know then there's all the clever stuff on you know like printed sensors on packaging uh or just printed sensors on on anything right that it's uh uh digitally applied functional coatings that react to our changing environment uh you know these all have strong potential and they're all being worked on right I mean uh we worked on a project with a company in Finland where they applied a coating onto a bridge which could uh react to the stresses and changes in the bridge could tell you how the bridge was reacting to you know wind or load or or various uh very aspects uh various aspects of it so it was a painted it was a coating that was applied was painted on in that particular case but you could imagine equally how something could be digitally applied as a coating and and sensors uh uh applied to that as part of the whole print process and that connected up to the system could tell whether something was you know overheating or under too much stress or you know vibration or or or all kinds of different aspects of it uh uh of of uh using that as part of maybe even using that as a container right um and container printing maybe you could then measure how full or empty something was and then at the same time then it's in oh you're you're you know you've only got a quarter of a canister left and then it'll send um a a message through to the the supply chain saying you know he's gonna need another one of these in about 20 minutes so you better get down there and get one to him so he can put it back into his um in his applicator for his bonding process for whatever he's saying right rather than he going oh I've run out of it uh I need to stop go off spend 20 minutes finding another one and then loading up the machine again and starting you can have something that's smart interactive and says yeah you're about done you know at your current work rate that's going to last about another 15 minutes we better get one to you. I think that's stuff like that. Yeah no exactly yeah it's cool and it's it's about being smarter isn't it with production because of all of the extraneous factors that are impacting our world geopolitical sustainability regulation school shortages supply chain disruption all of these things actually are pointing a little bit to uh as as as a uh a driver for innovation that you're saying within 10 years um that that that could be significant what what what if you could remove one barrier from holding the industry back what what would it be in order to achieve that in 10 years I think I'd I I would remove kind of one thing right but it's sort of the time cost and uncertainty involved the qualifying complete applications right I think that's just holds back stuff so you know we have projects that take two three four years to get through to qualification and and of course sometimes that's just the reality of of of that particular process but I think sometimes there are also things which just get held up because of uncertainty and and and just time lag.

One Recommendation To Accelerate Adoption

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

Yeah so more collaborative qualification reduce that risk and more standardization in terms of understanding how processes work right okay you'll be pleased to know Rob final question for you the grandly you've been brilliant you've been very uh thorough and so on and I know that and everybody listening what you've got this far well done but it's been really useful good content very broad ranging but very deep as well okay one question if you could make one recommendation that would most accelerate growth of industrial digital printing for advanced manufacturing what would it be and why okay um uh my recommendation would be to develop application specific partnerships around the complete manufacturing processes right so whether that's direct to shape or white format digital point of cell graphics or whatever right you you develop application specific partnerships whether that's on wood printing and all these kind of things whether it's water based UV whatever uh because yeah at the end of the day customers they don't buy a printed they don't buy an ink or a curing system in isolation they buy a reliable outcome whatever that process is so they need partners that tell them right okay we're gonna do this you're the people that understand that right uh it's almost like a consultancy in in some ways but but that delivers results right um so the industry therefore you know needs to validate the substrate preparation in printing uh parameters UV painting whether that's needed full file carrying or drying uh inspection and and downstream processing together uh and that would reduce technical risk I believe that would shorten development cycles at least of that part of the whole process and give manufacturers the the confidence to adopt digital production more quickly and I think the the the just to finish off then I would say that the the next revolution will not be digital printing alone it will be the creation of sort of an intelligent connected and energy efficient manufacturing system in which printing UV curing and or infrared drying operate as is one integrated process fantastic well listen thanks so much rob awesome stuff appreciate you joining in people who can connect with you by looking at the show notes and link to Rob's LinkedIn there and appreciate your time today and thanks very much for listening. Yeah it's Marcus pleasure Zara to see you in Valencia