Episode 44 Black Christmas (1974)

Pulled one from the vault for a little holiday bonus. We may do this from time to time. 

Happy Holidays from the Running Scared team of Robert Lendrum and Jamie Roberts. To get you in the festive spirit, we're reviewing a Canadian cult classic Black Christmas (1974). Although made on a small budget, it features some big Canadian acting talent and several key innovations for the genre of horror. That being said, is this a comedy or a cop movie? A genre bending art film or a cop out? What Benny HIll skit is Mrs. Mac from? Is Mr. Harrison the worst father on the planet? Crush a couple of Labbat 50s and get ready for a full 60 minutes of Running Scared Christmas convo.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_05 0:12

I'm Robert Lundrum. I'm Jamie Roberts.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

And this is the Running Scared Podcast. Where we review the movies that had you running away but coming back for more.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

And we're back for more, and we're back for some Christmas holiday spirit. Jamie, this is a Christmas episode of the Running Scared Podcast. Happy holidays, bud. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Uh Rob, you know me, kicking it with the fam, doing my thing. Uh we got the uh we got the Christmas Eve setup. We have uh we got that happening down in Hamilton, Hamilton, Ontario. Uh we got the uh we got we're going down to the big smoke my home, uh, where I live, where I love, where I've been, where I've seen. Uh we're going down to Toronto to my parents' actually don't even say Toronto. We're going down to Toronto to my parents' house for Christmas Day. That's gonna be awesome. I got I got my sister coming in. Uh, you know, we got everybody coming in. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be something.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

I'll probably be up with the fam up in Kingston. Uh, you know, we're gonna host something here in Laval, so it should be a good time. Uh we should also do some plugging here, Jamie. New Patreon structure, which we've talked about a few times. Uh we always love your support, so please check us out on Patreon. We are making some exclusive content. There is gonna be a Christmas episode, I believe, right, Jamie? You've got us doing maybe we'll save that for the end. Should we tell them now? We're gonna do the ginger dead man, strictly for our Patreon subscribers, as well as a new show we're doing, Jamie, called The Cooldown, where we kind of do some navel gazing and chit-chat about how we did on our last pod, kind of pick up anything we forgot, or sometimes we include some bits that we didn't put in the pod because we just felt it was running too long or it didn't quite click. Um, and then we also just talk about some other uh, you know, just a little looser structure, a couple giveaways or contests that I know you plan to, you know, uh mention to the fans, but I don't think we've done it yet. All right. So tonight, Jamie, we're doing Black Christmas. This is a 1974, considered a cult classic horror film. And guess what, dude? It's Canadian.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me bear.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

This is a Canadian film inspired by murders in the Westmount of Montreal, which is where I live. Now I don't live in West Mount, but nearby. Um the director is Bob Clark. This includes quite a bit of Canadian acting talent as well. But before we get into this too much, maybe we should do the one-line challenge. Black Christmas. Sorority sisters come together and fight for their life against a psycho-misogynistic weirdo who calls them and haunts them inside their sorority house as the holidays take a back seat to a haunting chiller. Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Oh man, you always bringing it with the one-line challenge. I like that. I like that a lot. Alright, here we go. One, two, three, black Christmas. Sorority sisters on a seam seeminglessly serendipitous party adventure. Unfortunately, he chose a way too strong version of lattice that is allowed a ancient serial killer to acquire access to their attic. Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

That was pretty good. That was good. Now, Jeez, before we get too deep into our um, you know, review of the film, one thing we should talk about is the title. There was a I think you were talking about this. You were saying like off ke off-pod that you thought the title was weird. Tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of Black Christmas. I I thought that, you know, for for what the movie was, you know, maybe among other things, it was a little bit of a cop-out. You know, Black Christmas, uh, to me, you know, no pun intended. I'm not sure it rings true with the with the with the st with the really like what the story was offering, right? Like, okay, yeah, yeah, we get it. It's not a white Christmas. You have some other ideas for new titles. Rob, I'm gonna hit you with this. Here we go. Number one sorority mouse. Here's another one. How about this? The sorority strangler. Jimmy doesn't really strangle anyone. He's suffocat actually, I just thought about right now. The sorority suffocator. I like that one. Or the moaner. Now that's the thing, like, that's gonna be a hard sell to the studio if you come if you come with the moaner. You know what I mean? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 5:10

I'm not sure gonna be they're gonna be on top of that one, but So Jimmy, one of the funny things about the title is it ri originally was not called Black Christmas. It was originally entitled Silent Night, Evil Night. And and I think that's kind of funny because one of the things about it is that they didn't want to call it Black Christmas because this is during the Black Exploitation area era, and they were worried like people would assume this was a Black Exploitation film. So uh anything, anyway, interesting piece of trivia there. Um let's get into this film, Jamie, and let's talk about a couple of the let's talk about some of the key aspects of this film. Initial thoughts, Jamie. Uh this movie's ahead of its time in a lot of ways. And you know, you look back on it now and you watch it, you're like, ah, it feels slow, and sometimes again, this is our taste. We're looking back at things from 2022. The movie feels a bit slow sometimes, but there are some key innovations in this film, are there not? The first I would have to say, and I think you point we've all talked about this, everyone knows this, the POV style of the camera. Totally now, I I don't know if this movie established it, but this is definitely a unique and interesting way to use it. The cameraman is is the killer, he's creeping around the house, and we're getting that peekaboo style, but it's from his perspective. So it's very haunting and chilling. The the movement is very slow, and at times I was almost like, oh my god, how slow does this guy move? But when you realize he's creeping around the house and he doesn't want to be caught, this makes perfect sense. And it really comes together that end scene when they get down into the basement. But again, this probably has to do with the technology where they finally were free of cameras that were hooked up to a whole bunch of shit that could actually move around just with like uh like a shoulder mount. Uh pretty interesting that they came up with this. Uh the other big one in this film is the idea of the phone being used as a weapon and this technology being kind of used against us. And and this fool film really gets into it. Like we get into wiretapping. Uh we get into like the fact that there's two lines in the house and like this is gonna play a major role in revealing what's going on with the villain. Very, very cool.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Yeah, one of the good things about this movie is the police work is believable. It's you know, Rob, that's one of the issues that I've taken or that we've taken with all the films that we just that we always review. Like we just did the Halloween uh trilogy, the new films from 2018 to 2022, and just talked about how ridiculously bad the police work was in those films. And you all you need to do is look to all the main franchises and all the other horror films, or so many horror films that have been made, just to look at how incompetent the police are. It was refreshing to actually take a look at this film and to see that the police work was was credible, was smart and intelligent, and actually had somebody with uh competence that was leading the force here, right? Like I always think about the guy with the big the big Stetson and Halloween. Like, what what what does that guy do? Like, you know what I mean? Because he's certainly not leading, uh, but uh but this cat uh John Saxon does a does an amazing job. So like that was really nice. And and one of the cool things is I love to learn when I'm watching a movie, uh, and you learn how like the wiretaps go sorry, T3, T2 went, you learn how the wiretapping system went and all the the work that they had to do to actually get a tap on someone to find out where they were, which I think is actually pretty effective at building out to where they find out the collars come from the house, like from inside the house. You know, you've seen that before in more recent films. And I kind of you know, you could definitely you didn't need a slide rule to figure out that's where the story was going, but I I thought it was pretty effective and had really nice pacing, you know, didn't give it to you all at once, let it uh let it simmer a little bit. So I think the police work was uh was good. Rob, I know you've got something to say about that as well.

SPEAKER_05 8:59

Jamie, great point about the police work. I actually think that is what makes this film really good and believable. There is that one idiot cop, but really John Saxon, played by or playing uh Lieutenant Fuller, is really smart and thorough, and he's like he's approaching the problem in a very logical way, and the police work really seems to make sense, and they they amp up their investigation as they realize the magnitude. And I think that adds a lot to the film because it makes the villain more impressive. Like when you have a good antagonist and uh I mean okay, when you have uh you know two people battling each other in a film, you know, you get protagonist, antagonist, Lieutenant Fuller is like up to this challenge, and so like the killer becomes uh um a more interesting killer because he's avoiding this this guy who's really smart. So it's always great when you can pit two strong characters against each other because you kind of get the best of both. And I think that's what makes our killer more interesting in this film is that he's actually being challenged by a very good detective and yet never gets discovered. What did you think about the ending where we do not get the payoff of revealing who the killer is? Some people have really criticized this for being a cop-out. Um you know, was it a setup for a sequel, or is this like an artful choice because maybe they only thought this is it, we're just gonna do this one idea, or we're we're just gonna do this one film. Or did they run out of ideas? I think this is more of an art film where they're trying to they're trying to do something interesting and new. I don't think they were trying to set up a franchise or a bunch of sequels, but it is a really it's a kind of choice that I know it's gonna leave a bad taste in some people's mouths because they want that satisfaction. But I think the other thing here with Black Christmas is you're not setting up an iconic villain who has like a cool like weapon or a cool mask like Michael Myers or like Freddie. It's just like off-camera and it's almost more omnipresent and and more sinister because of that. And I think that's where the movie found its strength and decided, you know what, let's keep it right there, and so you get that twist ending.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

I think that horror making or horror filmmaking has become obsessed with the idea of like the the bankable front franchisable villain star. I know you know, there was a great documentary that I saw in uh Wes Craven, and after Fred Um Freddie Krueger, you know, he was trying to come up with another franchisable star. And how that relates to this film is there was never the opportunity to actually create a franchisable star because the killer in this film is never revealed, which certainly strengthens the narrative that you know this is a standalone film, there was never going to be a sequel, and it was, you know, I think you've talked about it. You might actually mention it as this as this is more of an art film. It's funny, like we we talk about this as I see this as you know, and I'll talk about this later in the character section, but this is like a comedy movie, and then it's also an art film, and it's also a police film, and it's also a horror film. And I think the fusion aspect of this film has really come to light in recent years, which has lent credence to the cult following that it receives, and it also spun a couple of a couple of remakes, reboots, whatever you want to call it from this film. So what I've loved to have known the killer for sure, because I think that e that equates to figuring out what the motive is. I think it's always difficult when questions are left unanswered. I just think about if you're even watching something on television or in the news and you know you don't find out what happens, right? You left with a lot of questions and you always want to answer them. So in this instance, yeah, I would have liked to have seen uh who the killer was. I think it can be a cop out, but I was I think in time I was okay with them not revealing the killer. Rob, what did you think?

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Yeah, good point. Alright, I think we've covered kind of the big those of the big things that make this a cult classic or the things that people really gravitate to when they review this film. Let's take a look at the characters and see how they guide us through how this makes an interesting movie. Before we get into the characters, Jamie, there's one thing our listeners might notice is that I sound silky smooth right now because we have had to stop our recording, pick it up a little bit later, like fucking two weeks later. And I'm not kidding. And I happen to be now at work where we have a proper sound booth. So if I sound extra crispy right now. That's because I'm in a really good recording situation. Uh and I'm happy to be back here with you picking it up midway to get into the characters of Black Christmas, starting off with Barb. Uh, why is she so angry?

SPEAKER_04 13:41

That's a great question. And I just want to I just wanna, for the record, call it 13 days. We podcast on Friday nights. Yeah, why is Barb so angry? She is right from the get-go, she's got a drink in her hand the entire movie. She's fucking punking off the fucking moaner that's calling on the phone.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Like Oh, why don't you go find a wall socket and stick your tongue in it? That'll give you a charge.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

And one of the things that's interesting about Barb is she's set up right from the start as like the main, the main female character. And that really doesn't come to fruition later on in the movie, which I found a little bit confounding. But I think one interesting point, maybe not interesting, but an important point uh was to have a female like that in the movie. The you know, this is 1974, right? Like a strong female character that is in control of herself, that is not afraid to express herself, and quite frankly, like be belligerent to uh, you know, what the police officers around her, like the how the her mother. She's got well you you've got the best line there, you know. I mean she's got uh she's got a uh old school beer from Canada, she's got a Labat 50 in her hand.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

Yes, at the she's at the cob shop with a Labat 50 in her hand. And by the way, in Canada, I don't think you could ever I don't know, what do you think? Could you walk around with a beer in your hand and drink in public? I don't think we can still do that.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

So it's funny, like when my mother was working in the in the the bank, and this is different from having a beer, but she would always tell me stories about when she was working as a bank teller in like the 70s and she'd be smoking at her kiosk. So walking into a a cop shop and having a beer, yeah, I I don't know, actually, I probably don't think it would be that much of an issue. It's it's funny how like I think maybe some of those laws were looser before and then they've tightened up and now they're starting to loosen up again. So but uh yeah, I think it'd be okay. What are some of the lines she's got for her for her mother?

SPEAKER_05 15:46

She gets on the phone with her mom and she's like, her mom cancels Christmas. She's not coming. Bribe's kind of upset because she had plans and she's like, You're a real gold-plated whore, aren't you, mom? Wow.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

I feel like these I feel like, you know, um, I feel like Andrea Martin, because this is she's the she's gonna go and end up being she's Phil. She's gonna end up going on SCTV and just and she's she's a comedic actor. I feel like she auditioned for the part of Barb but didn't get it.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

I don't know what happened with her because I feel like she's criminally underused. She's actually used to be the sensitive, like uh the one who's got the ear for everybody and who actually like talks uh Barb off one of her limbs when she's going off and she's hammered, and Phil just kind of says, Go to sleep, Barb. Go to sleep, Barb.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

But go to Barb.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

This is an actress who turns out to be like a comedy uh legend in Canada and just isn't used to that effect whatsoever. And like you said, like Barb really is set up at a certain point to be kind of the star, or at least I thought maybe she was going to be the main character. But then they push her so far that maybe it's like they purposely like send her really far over the edge where she's too belligerent. And then that's in contr contrast to Jess, who is our main character, who, by the way, is super boring. And like the only thing that makes her interesting is when we find out later that she's hiding a secret.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

I wanted to you know, like one of the best scenes or one of the best moments that we talked about in this film is right at the end where you start to see who is the main character, uh Jess. She traverses all the levels. She goes from like the where the bedrooms are down to the attic, and sh there's a chase there, right? And it's a great part of the film. I wish we would have had that with Barb. You know, eventually, maybe in in that space, she would have gotten it and then it would have moved on to Jess. But we never we never get the payoff with Barb, which is which is disappointing. Um speaking of Jess, Jimmy, like did you try to figure out what is her accent? She's English. She's she's English. Yeah, I had to. I thought she was French. Well, you don't know, like she she's English actresses, Olivia Hussey, and I I honestly watching this movie a couple of times, I found her like just really boring. She didn't hold my interest on camera very much. She, you know, the number of times I know she didn't. She the number you know what I mean? Like, I I'm just like she d especially she's very um she's shaded a lot by uh the characters around her, notably Barb and the house mother, we who kind of add that like completely eccentric kind of comedic edge to it. And and Jess just sort of lingers in this middle area right here. Now, she has a strong showing at the end of the film, but really, um, it's not until she reveals that uh that secret that that sort of um I think that's about like maybe the 45th or the 50th minute mark with Peter that really the film sort of shifts around her and her relationship. Rob, what is that secret? The secret is she's pregnant.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

And her boyfriend wants her to keep it and wants her to get married and go work in the kitchen, but she's not interested in any of that. Another mo another uh Did you get that? I didn't feel like No, he says something to that effect. Like, well, no, sorry, he says something like we should get married or whatever, and she turns it around on him and says, You're asking me to make all these changes um to suit your career. You've decided you don't want to be an artist anymore, or you don't want to be a rocker, but you're not actually like asking me what do I want to be doing. You're just assuming I'm gonna be a wife pregnant with kids, and uh she calls him out, like she calls she she sees it exactly as he's uh pitching it, but he doesn't even know that he's saying that, but that is what he's kind of getting to. And this is another point, too, that this film has like that feminist uh undertone that that was probably you know, like you're saying, gets recognized kind of later in life as it became a cult classic. So, yeah, Jess, not the most exciting. The boyfriend, I can't remember what this guy's name is. Oh, um Keir Dulia. This is Peter. Oh, this is Peter. Okay. So Peter Peter's the artist who smashes pianos. He's like a he's like uh what's that guy's name? John Cage. You know what I'm talking about? He studied music.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Yeah, no, Cage for sure. Where he just sat there. You he um it was Cage that or was it Cage or Crum? No, it's Cage. Crumb's a cartoonist. No, no, no, no. Crumb was a was a artist as well. They were all avant-garde musicians, so they did like um a lot of atonal music, they did a lot of percussive music. It was Cage that did um he uh he wrote a piece called Tatch It, which is I think in Italian is silence. So he sat down at the piano for four minutes and thirty seven thirty-seven seconds and didn't fucking touch the thing.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

Yeah. But it was all about like you have to hear the space you're in too, because that's that's that's part of the acoustic.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, he comes in and you know, he's you made a really good point about how they they really try to portray him as like the crazy artist. He's doing the piano and he's he's and by the way, that's called a panel. So he was in he was doing his like end of year panel. Now it would have been it to me, he was in a performance degree that probably would have been whatever it is, doctorate or something like that. That is highly stressful. Like like that, I actually connected with him. It's like a thing's defense. Absolutely, man. Like he is, like he's pouring his heart and his soul, and at no point did I find that that was like over the top or not realistic because you could just see the stress on his face, and and it's trust me, it's because I've had it happen to me as well. It's noticeable when when you have the the panel judges and they're looking at performance, they're they're supposed to stay very static, but if they turn over and kind of give the facial expression that you're not. interested do you understand what that's like when you're actually in the middle of a performance? It is the most oh it's it's the most debilitating thing one could ever experience so I like this one's gonna make it boys.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

His reaction at the end is just to did you not find did you not find like his performance like the music that he's doing a little bit over the top though it felt a little bit like a film making fun of a sort of avant-garde art movement where they're like oh let's let's make him just pound on the keyboard for a while.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

I you know what I I because it was all filmed at UFT and because uh because of like just the way this guy looked the the the only thing that I was thinking about him when he when he was doing his performance was Glenn Gould. So Glenn Gould was a very very famous pianist from Toronto and went to school at UFT and there's like the Glenn Gould School of Music down there roundabouts the same time and even a simmer look and he was apparently kind of like a little bit of off the off the wall character. So I that's the only thing I was thinking of but I was just because as a musician I was like really into the performance. I did think it was a bit over the top and clearly he didn't do very well so he hit fucking destroyed and by the way that's a Steinway one of the most expensive pianos you can possibly ever play.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

Yeah he doesn't destroy it in the performance he does it later in the piano obviously it's the schools. Speaking of Glenn Gould uh there was a doc on CBC that just aired like two nights ago produced and uh directed by my friend Mark Lori who uh created that back in our uh days when we did an MFA in Documentary Media Ryerson. He produced that and uh yeah you're right uh Glenn Gould one of the things Mark looks at in his film was how he would uh kind of have different sounds happening at the same time and he would force your ear to choose one of the other at at any given point and how sometimes you would kind of flip and you would you would go between one sequence to another. I don't know the logic of it but anyway interesting stuff. I'm not sure if Peter is getting into anything that deep I don't know if his thesis stands up next to Glenn Gould or John Cage. Moving on there's the uh other guy I loved who was never really put in the shaded light of a suspect. He was just another guy who actually has a lot of concern for the first girl who's killed who we didn't even mention and he is the only thing that they do to kind of throw a little shade at him at one point is show that he's a goalie and he's a hockey player.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

You can't do this shock it's never been done before Mr. Blake you can't see down with that thing. Mr.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

Blackhawk and he and you're like wait a minute that guy's the killer right and then it turns out he's actually the coolest dude on earth wearing the fucking dopest fur jacket with this huge quaffing hair like this guy baby.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

And the turtleneck like this guy's got a look you know it's it's guys like that that are that are elevated like in in new school horror films are like the love interest and like they're in the sex scene you know what I mean and generally get a little bit more burn on camera. He's he's that character but he's got more he's got um more substance to him substance to him because like you said he's the one that's really concerned right he's like where's Jess he's in he's yelling to the cop like fucking start to do something man yeah he's the one who's trying to get the investigation rolling and of course they're playing hockey and that was in varsity varsity arena too which I used to break into as a kid I saw cranberries there radiohead as a child like it was not maybe not child but uh as a teenager so this whole movie just honestly is littered with because I I'm a UFT alum so it's littered with like just memories of my past so on that level I was able to connect with it but that guy that guy is um yeah like his fucking fur jacket is amazing. I love it. I'll tell you who also is a plot pusher who is um who has like the most craftiest way to get their drink around town because apparently like even as the house mother she's she's gotta she's gotta watch for she's drinking is is the woman who's in charge here. Like this is why is she hiding her booze? Is it because she's worried the the girls will get into her her booze? This is my this is my take Rob this is a comedy movie. Yeah this is a fucking comedy man no it's not they would have used Andrea Martin a lot better then no but I don't even think they knew what they had in Andrea Martin when this movie was made possibly yeah okay this she's fucking she's got like Sherry her whole her whole look at her whole outfit like you said Benny Hill skit right she looks like she's from a Benny Hill skit yeah like she's over the top she's got the makeup going like just the way she talks you know in one minute like she's very um you know um welcoming and then the next minute she's going to she she's going into the toilet and she's got her drink there. She literally carves out like 150 pages in like the in a dictionary and she's got her sherry in there.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

Hidden on the bookshelf which is absurd to me like the the the level of detail she's going in to hide things in the most obscure places it and and it's because she wants access to them throughout the house like we see at least three hiding places in this house which means she's too lazy to hide the booze in one location and just go get it. She instead has to hide it throughout the house so that no matter where she is she can go get a drink on.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Exactly but also it's like she would be wanting to set a good example well newsflash everybody's drinking in the house anyways like what are you what are you hiding this from like they probably know that you're drinking. Anyways her whole character is comedy come on Claude come say goodbye to mommy and also the way she's killed is very slappy I didn't find that scary at all I found that actually like it's a silly kill like she's like and just when she turns around and then like the the stage hook like this like like the Peter Pan stage hook comes and gets her and then then pulls her up through the attic yeah that's interesting like it's wily coyote man anyways so that's that's her which you know um she she just like that's I just have to laugh when I think about her right because she I I can just she's like your grandmother right you know or no not your grandmother she's like your aunt she's like your aunt that you see at Christmas time and and then maybe in summer you know what I mean but in Christmas time she's like in that cheetah jacket she's like you know what I mean like we all had an aunt like that I had an aunt Shirley like that. Like everybody just has an aunt like that.

SPEAKER_05 28:46

I had an aunt Shirley too but she didn't drink at all. No no opposite minded um so and then the other thing is she's trying to maintain like this level of composure or like this facade that everything's cool because the father of the first missing girl is there. He first arrives on campus and then he has to find his way to the sorority which is hilarious that he doesn't know where his daughter lives by the way.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

Rob this guy is going to be this guy's gonna be drafted in one of the top worst fathers of the year okay so first off when he's first off he asks some random school bus driver have you seen my daughter and he's like some fucking dude off the street and he gets pelted by a snowball before he has the conversation so it's completely random he's out in like around University Hall with the arches there. I know exactly where it is and he's like I think sorry I think she's in some sorority or something. That's what he says. Yeah so that alludes to me he doesn't even know what she's doing. Later on at dinner he says to her goes I didn't send her to sorority to come and get drunk. So like it he doesn't even know what's going on. He doesn't have any facial expressions there's no sense of urgency. His daughter's like he was he was supposed to meet his daughter at one o'clock and then at 130 you know what I mean he's looking for her but throughout the entire film like he doesn't change his facial expression he's out in the he's out in a he's out in the in the park for a search party and there's like nothing happening on this guy's face.

SPEAKER_05 30:14

This lends the the to your your argument this is a supposed to be comedy because what else is this guy supposed to do other than fill like his blank expressions are supposed to be funny right? And his like when he when he just stares at Barb after she goes off about like what is she talking about? Like she does some like whole spiel about vaginas or something. Yeah. And he just stares at her with his pushy mustache and he's just like he he just looks like a small dog. And you're right he doesn't react he doesn't do anything. His daughter is fucking missing and shit is starting to happen now. Now we're starting to learn like wow someone else is missing and weird people call in there's been there's been a kid that's been killed you know like so is this bad acting or is this bad scripting? Like it's like we said like do we think this guy is playing this movie as if he's supposed to be a comedic presence in the film or is he like a bad actor because he's not coming to he's not bringing anything else beyond that one note when as he's learning this new information.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Or is that just I guess or is that how he was directed like you know how you're just supposed to be like I think the character itself is just indicative of what probably is a 50 year old man in 1970s, you know what I mean? A product of the 40s and 50s just you know square cut just like businessman he's supposed to be a priest of some kind of no not a priest but definitely like like he's like an insurance guy. He's like a there's definitely not a lot of like artistic flair in this in this guy's personality I also think that just for the movie itself and this is this is where you can poke a few holes in this film as good and as much of a hit was John Saxon uh James Edmund was a miss. You know just like you needed fucking Liam Neeson in there. You needed you needed somebody from you know taken or somebody that was going to bring a sense of urgency somebody that was going to bring a sense of no I'm serious.

SPEAKER_05 32:18

You want the movie to take a very different turn if it's uh Liam Neeson I'm being facetious but what I'm saying is you needed a guy in there you needed a guy in there that was going to I actually like shake shake some cages and rattle some cages you it it's kind of like the hockey player character wasn't really that necessary if the father had just done more.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

Yeah like the father needs to be out like the father maybe like the next time the phone rings the father jumps over what happens if he went over goes you listen to me you goddamn motherfucker where's my daughter I'm coming for you I'm an explosive expert you know or he answers the phone I don't know where you've taken her but I'm gonna find you and I've what's the line what's the lead he's always like um I don't know who you are I don't know what you want if you're looking for a ransom I can tell you I don't have money but what I do have are a very particular set of skills skills I've acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you if you let my daughter go now that'll be the end of it I will not look for you I will not pursue you but if you don't I will look for you I will find you and I will kill you I'm just saying that you you're right like if you somehow were to amalgamate you know what I mean you were you you were to bring in hockey player dude and dad dude and make them the same guy and again jump on the phone call like like run around a little bit you know what I mean like like throw a lamp like just do something right that or even take a guy in the corner. Or even you know would have been you know what what could have been cool is the dad if the dad had more burn and if the dad had a had a stronger center lane the dad could have found the attic and then as as he found him and he started to like fucking break down and freak out he was killed. Yeah it's true it's all the it's all females right you know what I mean and then and then the the killer comes down Jess is on the phone like like something like that could have made for a much more climactic and and finished ending. But anyways the dad James Edmund he just fuck I Does he actually say at one point I feel like I should be doing something it's like what the fuck man yeah you should be doing something like if you feel it you should do it. It's your daughter in fact her killing is pretty rough like you know you it's like there's no creepy lighting I don't think there's much creepy music and you get the POV from behind like the plastic like you know like dry cleaner dry cleaner case shell that that they come in the dresses and then you get it in the face and like oh that's rough man.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

Anyways So let's let's talk about the character we did like the cop John Saxon playing Lieutenant Ken Fuller Ken Fuller. This this guy's awesome like this is the thing I think this movie does really well is that it makes the the police or at least this particular cop is very competent, very logical he's following the clues he's like doing all the right things. It there is that other cop who's kind of a goofball but he's not in charge of anything so it's not like his his he doesn't really mess up anything whereas in other horror movies we're used to seeing the cops being like these bumbling fools who just essentially help the bad guy kill more people. But in this film uh Lieutenant Fuller is like fucking on the case and all his decisions make perfect sense to me and he seems very intelligent and cool as shit.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Movie making in the 70s cop films were huge right so they they they were able to get that down and in this film I love how the pacing of the police work goes it's very realistic and as they take it through like trying to uncover where the phone calls are coming from Lieutenant Fuller Yeah Nash what is it phone company's on the other line sir they say they got a trace on this one.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Yeah let's have it he says the calls are coming from number six Belmont Street for Christ's sake Nash you got it wrong that's where the calls are going into that's where they're coming from too siring calls trying to see without just like boop boo boo boo like GPS technology like they do now with all the satellites and everything.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Like it was actually really cool to see how they did it because you that that's the thing is like as a viewer you actually learn something and I think that's really important as a viewer you should be wanting to learn something so you actually saw it's not that they just you saw how it actually's at the the telephone station whatever and he's calling back and just like the mount like you got to keep them on the line and they had to do it a couple of times so they build tension that way. I also think they do a really good job and it was probably one of the first like fusions of like a cop drama and a horror serial killer brought together. I feel like this is where you could like and and Black Christmas I think does that and does it well I think this is where you could go and maybe elevate some of the Friday the 13th franchises Halloween franchises like we just did a trilogy of how shitty the cops were in these films Halloween movies. And and it just makes them you know what and it just makes the films fucking dumb you all the things that we love about those movies you you have to make like 15 of them right so the guy this they can never be caught they can never be killed so the police work can never be good. But in this film there's only one and you know there's spoilers in this podcast we're not going to reveal the ending yet but solid police work a serial killer that is that's like a the first stalker horror film uh and how that all came together as like a as a genre bender I think that is a very appealing and attractive about this film. Did you want to see And he's a big part of it John Saxon's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Yeah did you want to see John Saxon go toe-to-toe with the killer and just bring out his Enter the Dragon skills and just kung fu like a third genre just comes in out of nowhere at the end of the movie. It's like a kung fu fight at the end.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Well he's sick and Enter the Dragon right like he like you said there's a point I won't go beyond.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

In a way he kind of plays the same guy. He's like the principled not anti-hero definitely hero like good guy but not afraid to kind of mix it up and go toe to toe not afraid to go into the hard areas that's what I say not afraid to go into the dirty areas. But no I didn't want to see him go toe to toe right like Sana it it it's it's a different kind of film it's more nuanced than that I don't think you need that overt violence right you get that at the end kind of um but that was the design of the director never to show like if you had a fight you'd have to show the killer right especially with the cop but that doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

So I think that's pretty solid we get through the characters we that's pretty solid sense of what made the movie really work. And I think what when you look back on this movie like it was very inventive and shocking and scary especially the idea that the killer turns out to be in the house and he's calling from inside the house. And that's actually what you're talking about they build up that tension when they're at the phone station trying to figure out where he's calling from they finally realize oh my god it's coming from inside the house. The cop who's supposed to be outside the house is dead just sitting in the front seat dead nobody's noticed him and now the cop is uh Saxon's got to you know book it over there and they are not there in time Jess has to have a showdown with the killer. Um and she's able to not necessarily defeat him it's hard to say what happens here because Peter ends up coming over and trying to break into the house and the whole movie makes you think oh shit it was Peter the whole time. Exactly. But there's some sort of showdown that they do off camera where Peter ends up dead she's passed out and it seems as though she survived by killing him she had to turn on him and do it herself. She ends up in the bed the cops are all chatting away of course nobody's bothered to check the attic and the other thing is like okay one thing that they didn't check the attic I can sort of let that pass for this scene at the end. The only problem I have with it is that throughout the film they're getting phone calls from inside the house and when they pick up the phone there's some guy on the other end going he's making all this fucking noise. He's I think at one point he kills somebody while he's on the line. Oh he's screaming at at times yeah and it's like totally like incoherent rambling nonsense uh and it's really meant to like make you feel like ooh this guy's not only like scary but kind of sexually gross. Yeah. And wait, he's just upstairs and we could nobody's hearing that it's not like the party was like a rager where like they had to turn down the uh like the uh the music and like listen like it's it's I don't know unless these old houses are super soundproof it seems a little weird that he's right up there making that noise. Now if it had been like you know the thing is we also know that he's in the house because the very first scene the house of the movie is him climbing the lattice outside the building which is strong strong lattice Spider-Man esque guy's up and down that lattice all all movie long. That that lattice held man that shit from 1860 or whatever you're like thirty feet 30 feet in the air seriously a bit strange that they don't catch that sound and like but you know we're gonna brush over that because this movie's doing something interesting. Other thing I want to mention Jamie be coming to the end here when they do get into that basement scene did that not feel like the prototype of silence of the lambs the final scene there Silence of the Lambs I feel like is a movie we need to do because A I haven't seen it in forever and B it's I remember watching it when I it's it just chilled me to the bone.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

Well and there's some DNA there it's a cop procedural too like a cop uh film as well so maybe there is more connections than we thought of yeah but it but in the in the basement and everything I the one thing I like about the basement scenes is that everything just slows down and they just you know what I mean like who's around which corner where am I trying to find you know in in Black Christmas so yes it absolutely uh reminded me of the silence of the lamb scene that was a very creepy scene this was another creepy scene.

SPEAKER_05 42:27

Well here they they're putting that POV work that they established in the beginning of the movie they're putting it to work real well here in this final scene because now you know he's you're seeing it from his viewpoint sometimes or he's creeping around in there she's trying to hide and make sure she's not you know being seen.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

You know what else was a really creepy scene too which made me think of um when Peter starts to wipe away the frost from the window and you see his eye at first and then when she was up and finds Sparb dead and then looks through the crack like the creak of the crack of the door and just sees an eye. I thought that was interesting that they just showed the eye and then through the window they showed the eye to get kind of the viewer to think oh fuck it's the same person. Yeah there's a symmetry. And then it made me think of um he looks like the dude from Clockwork Orange. Anyways yeah the basement scene is great and that will just take us to the end Rob and you know I think we had maybe we had conflicting ideas but essentially you mentioned that she's sleeping in bed she's gone through this like herring ordeal the cops are around her there's a policeman stationed you know there's a cops around her but then they start to walk away you know the camera pulls back it's like the end of the film right there's a policeman stationed outside the front door and but then the camera pans up to like the attic and you hear him you hear you hear the killer like giggle. He's still in the house and he's not been caught. It wasn't him that was killed and then it implies that Jess is about to get it too, because she's asleep in the bed. Exactly, or whatever is gonna happen, like I guess that in exactly it implies that she's gonna get killed. What did you think about that inning? You know, is this is this a piece of clever filmmaking or is this or is this a cop-out?

SPEAKER_05 44:17

You know, it's weird because um I think one of the reasons people might say it's a cop-out is because they're expecting this to turn into uh a franchise. And I think the horror movie genre for some reason has conditioned us to think that, like, oh, how do they do a sequel out of this? You know, I don't think they were trying to do a sequel. I don't think they ever had that in their mind for this film. And if you're not gonna have a franchise, it's kind of cool that you end with a very open-ended, doubtful ending that kind of you know raises the hair on the back of your neck and makes you think, you know, this this is not over yet. Although that also kind of makes it feel as like it's opening a door to a franchise. But I don't know. I I had real problems with it one way at one point I was like, what? I don't get to see the guy. I and then at the end I was like, maybe it doesn't matter because I don't know if I care about him as a iconic character, because we don't get anything more than a little bit of peekaboo with his eye. We don't see him, we just get some sound. And uh and that's like not enough to hang a hat on the sense that like, oh, I gotta get more of that guy. I want to see more of him. I think it's better that he's sort of uh omnip omnipresent and sort of like just a mysterious shrouded figure, because that has so much more impact than if you find out, yeah, he really is just uh crazy Larry from down the street.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

I think that you're spot on with one of your points is they weren't trying to make a sequel, and and I'll tell you why they weren't trying to make a sequel is because they would have if they wanted a sequel in mind, they would have been trying to to make a franchisable star. So they or a franchisable character and create a killer, create something that could exist in sequel after sequel after sequel. And the fact that it wasn't made, or the fact that you never even saw the killer, you know, we had no idea of what this person would look like, uh it just reinforces to me that it was a standalone film. So I never think that they had an idea with uh for a sequel. The one thing that that piqued my curiosity is with the phone calls, the first thing I thought of was, wow, this is really touching on mental health and maybe schizophrenia and um split personality because of the different voices, and I think sometimes it's even alluded to alluded to in the film where they where they talk about that, right? Is it one voice, is it two? Like what's happening with this with these phone calls? And I think it would have been interesting to explore and get some answers as to who was on the other end and not to get too fucking comic booky, this is my influence of being around you too much, but to get an origin story. Because when you don't when you never when the killer is never revealed, the motive is never revealed. So there's that piece that remains unanswered. And that can that can be you can i if you don't care about the film, it doesn't matter. But if you do care about the film, you are interested in what is the motive? What is the thought process behind the killer? Why did they do these things? So for me, I like this film, and I was disappointed that I didn't receive those answers at the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm just not sure if it matters because, like you said, it's they're not they're not showing you who it is anyway. So what does it matter? It's almost more frightening for it to be something you have zero understanding of. Like the more you know the the more you don't know, the more afraid you are of it.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

Like it presents as a not like a paranormal entity. You know, so I like I I do care about it. That's the thing. I like I I do want to know. It's not like it's something that it's it's it's a man or it's a woman, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 48:04

And it's but maybe that's it. Like maybe male violence towards women is actually banal. Like in like it's harsh to say that, but it that that sense that like what more are you gonna get from this creature, this person, other than to find out that he's just a misogynist. So it's representative of not just a singular, but in a way it becomes like he becomes like the force of misogyny.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

It's an interesting take on it, but it's one that I could one that for me makes a lot of sense because y I start staring down the different roadways of where the thinking was with why you didn't reveal the killer, what was the meaning behind the killer, and and they seem to get blocked off, and that is one idea that sort of rings true. Uh, and I know that this film was inspired by a serial killer in Montreal. I'm not sure if it was viol if it was the all female victims, but it's something interesting to think about. You want to know what else is interesting to think about, Rob? The Running Scared Award. So, Rob, okay, so I went first last time. Well, first contextualize running scared award. Okay, so the uh every time we do a film, every time we review an a film, I'm gonna say review a film, every time we do an episode uh and we look at a movie, we always take a look at which character Rob or I thought think or thought uh was getting the most exercise in the movie. So we call this the Running Scared Award. Now I have mine all lined up, but Rob, I'm gonna actually throw it to you. Rob, Black Christmas. Who is getting the Running Scared Award uh from you for this movie?

SPEAKER_05 49:51

Well, I think it's gotta go to Chris, right? Uh he's playing goalie. He's got he plays a full 60 minutes. This is the thing about goalie people forget, you know? Most hockey players average about 15, if you're a good player, 20 minutes a game. But the goalie's on there for a good 60 minutes, man. It goes to overtime, that's 65. So uh I gotta say, the guy getting the most exercise, and he's running around town. He's telling the cops what the fuck is going on. I mean, he's not smashing pianos, but yeah, I bet he could. This guy is huge. He probably killed an animal with his bare hands to get that jacket. I'm giving it to Chris Hayden.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

Chris Hayden, you're gonna come in with Art Hindle. This guy ended up um he was in like um, what is that, like Malcolm, no Falcon Ridge. He was this guy was like can't he's a big Canadian actor. Is he Canadian? Can rock. Like this guy's a Canadian dude. Um Porkies. Good friends with Blue Rodeo, dude. Uh yeah, Art Hindle. All right, I like that, Rob. Um good, but not great. I'm gonna come in with Don't don't pick the cop. You picked the cop for the last three movies. No, I'm not coming in with the cop, Rob. I'm gonna come in with Leslie Carlson, the switchboard operator. I thought you were gonna go to the house mom, but this is good. Let me hear this. All right, let me tell you something, Rob. There's no less than four calls that they're tapping. This guy's running from the phone to the banks of switchboards in the deldrums in the basement of the police station. He's calling, he's using his fingers. This guy's got both hands working. It's like fucking, it's like the imitation game, 1926. He's he's working up a sweat. And the reason why I'm giving it to him, because there's no doubt, there's no doubt that uh that Chris Haynes is definitely he's sweating it up, is uh is that uh is that Leslie Carlson is doing it under pressure. And when things are under pressure, you're burning you're burning more calories. And the fact that this guy doesn't put a foot wrong, he's calling everything, he's you know he's he's making the switches, the running scared, it's going to Leslie Graham.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

All right, all right. Well, we do not agree, but uh both good cases, I thought. I mean goalies win games, that's all I'm saying. Goalies win games. All right, buddy, let's do the review and uh put a stamp on this episode.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

Okay, you know what? I'm gonna go first. I'm going to offer a concise review of this movie. So uh Black Christmas, 1974. Uh, this was a Canadian, really a Canadian independent film uh filmed on location in and around University of Toronto. You know, my alma mater. I think this movie is fresh and new, and I think it's a genre starter. Uh you know, um Carpenter's come out and said that uh that he looked at this film for a little bit of inspiration. 74, good police work, uh a a crazy, I don't want to say crazy, but an ill serial killer uh that is in the house stalking uh you know a bunch of women in a sorority house. It's really frightening, really scary. Some really good choices for uh for cast, especially the cop, the dad, not so much, but some of the sorority sisters are really good. And you you have like the verbose one, you have the quiet one, you have the the sensitive one, you've got some you've got some comedic appeal from the house mother, uh, and the two search party dudes that are coming around. But how this works as a film is you know, there is um something that you got Lois Lane, man. You got Margot Kidder. Yeah, exactly. Lois Lane. Um, you know, something happens at the beginning and there's a death at the beginning, and then they're searching for her, and and there's an intensification throughout the whole film. I thought it was a little bit slow at times. Uh I thought the pacing could have m you know clicked along, but I think once you got to about halfway through the film, um, the movie has a lot of strengths, and I think looking back now at the movie and what it did, offering like the phone technology, the POV, being in the attic, not revealing the killer, marrying a serial killer horror film to like a police film as a genre bender. I just think all these are really notable things that were done 50 years ago in a movie, okay? And we can still watch it and it still had some creepy moments, and you know, 50 years later, uh forget about a horror film. If you can look back at a film 50 years and you're like, Yeah, man, they got that fucking right. Like that was really good. That made sense. You learned something from this film from this movie. I think they did a lot of things right. So Black Christmas, Rob, like I'm gonna go, um, I'm gonna go um I'm gonna go four footsteps out of five for this film.

SPEAKER_06 55:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Yeah, uh, I think I'm right there with you, man. I was gonna go three and a half. Um I was I was like humming and hon between three and a half or you know. I think the the slowness and the there are times it's a bit boring, but the more we talked about through this pod, the more we started kind of peeling off some of the really innovative things about this film. You just listed them. Plus uh a spunky Canadian low budget film. Like they came up with a lot of creative ways to make an interesting film on a low budget. Uh Margot Kidder, uh Hindle, uh Martin, a lot of Canadian actors in this. So I mean, I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm touching this up a little bit to to to like get the Canadian uh love into this uh rating. But I do think there are some things that lasted. I think like you and I have both identified throughout this pod that there are connections and like sort of uh ways that this film influenced things like Halloween, Silence of the Lambs, a few other films probably along the way. That POV camera being such a unique thing uh at the time, really using the technology available at the time, uh, which I also think is always commendable when you can think of a new way to you know, it's it's not even an expensive way, but it's just using it in a you know, finding a way to do something new with what's available to you. And uh yeah, a pretty creepy film, and I think you know, ambitious in its attempt to like be extra scary by not revealing the killer, by not letting him get caught, uh leaving it hanging like that, leaving that unsettling feeling when you leave. Um if you are to sort of like draw it up in your mind as this like metaphorical um you know uh metaphor for you know the the omni omnipot omnipotent power and and and aggressive nature and violence of misogy of you know misogynistic, you know uh what's the word I'm looking for here? Like um sexism towards women, like because it's all about women dealing with it. Like the men are there helping, some of them are helping, but like it's really about how they have to deal with this because it's all being ha it's all occurring to them, it's happening to them. And this guy's just like an embodiment of all that grossness. And uh you know, he's not caught because this shit is still happening all the time. And and the fact that we're talking about it uh I don't want to make it sound too old because I think it's 48 years later, but uh you're right, fifty years later. Um this film really is one of those ones that sets forth the emotion that where we're seeing so much feminist critique in horror films uh because of movies like this. Um I mean positive feminist critique, like we're actually like seeing positive characters, women that uh solve the problem themselves, that that don't don't uh just talk about men and cow to the villain and all that kind of stuff. They actually like solve the problem. So yeah, I'm gonna give it a four. It's a little higher than I thought I was gonna go. I was I was gonna come in at three and a half. I'm gonna push it up a little more because I think you've made some arguments that really helped me uh make me feel like this film is uh is worth considering as a landmark film in the genre of horror.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

Yeah, I uh just lastly, it's I think we've talked ourselves into mining the merits of the film, right? Like when you you know, it's this is not a movie that you just kind of watch face you know, once through, take it at face value and be like, yeah, that's that's that's a great movie. Maybe some people do, but like I gotta I love and we've said this before on the pods. If I gotta think it, I'm gonna like it. You know what I mean? So if it makes me think, and and I actually gotta kind of pull pull some layers away, peel them back, then for me that's way more of uh intellectual journey and challenge and and you know exercise than just taking everything at face value.

SPEAKER_05 58:47

So well it makes you appreciate the making of the film too. You start thinking about what the choices they made, why they made them, how they did it. So another great film. Uh James, we will be back soon with a uh exclusive on Patreon we're doing for Christmas, The Ginger Dead Man. Oh, which I'm not looking forward to. But you have made me, you've dragged me into this one. So if you're on a if you're one of our Patreon subscribers, uh we love you and uh we appreciate your support. There is some excl exclusive content coming your way very soon. If we don't get to talk to you before Christmas, we hope you all have a great holiday and a happy new year. We uh hope to be dropping at least one more, but that might be the Patreon one, so I'm not sure. Um and uh signing off. James, you want to say anything to the people back home?

SPEAKER_04 59:30

No, Rob, that was well said. Just uh happy holidays. Uh uh stay safe. And we'll try to get something out to to the on the main feed, but um but but yeah, for the Patreon listeners, ginger I can't even fucking say it. I can't even say what it's true like Gary Busey. I've watched this movie, it is like the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen in my whole life, but there's some fucking hilarious points. Like, look, all I'm gonna I'm gonna drop this nugget. If you think this dad is bad in this movie, wait till you see some of the fucking antics this guy pulls. He gets himself killed immediately in the movie for making the couple of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen. Anyways, we can review that and we can talk about that film. Um, I would love to get one more out there before the new year, probably not before Christmas. What's a New Year's horror film? Fuck Christmas. What's a what's a horror film about the New Year's? If you have any ideas, send us an email at therunning scared podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear what you uh what you guys have to say. Anyways, that is Rob and I, or for Rob and I. Uh, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Running Scared.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:47

The Running Scared Podcast is written and produced by Robert Landrum and Jamie Roberts, with original music by Jamie Roberts. This episode edited by Jamie Roberts. Follow us on social media and tune in for another movie review next time on Running Scared.