Running Buddies featuring Nicolas Lehmann

On today's show we welcome ultra runner Nicolas Lehmann. Lehmann shares his perspective on professional athletics, describing his rigorous mountain training as a lifestyle rather than a chore. He recounts his victories in the PTL, a notoriously difficult 300-kilometer race, and explains the importance of mental fortitude and partnership during such grueling events. We cover his transition from playing rugby to trail running and his preference for solitary, technical routes over crowded mainstream races. Looking ahead, Lehmann reveals plans for a documentary focused on a high-altitude challenge at Mont Blanc. We also hype up the Mount to Coast footwear giveaway a brand with which Layman has recently partnered.

To enter into the Giveaway for the FREE pair of Mount to Coast shoes enter: HERE

MTC Website: HERE

For your running needs go to: https://www.ostrichrunning.com/

Full Transcript: HERE

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:18

You're listening to Running Buddies, brought to you by RunningScared Media.com. Where every step has a story. I'm Jamie Roberts, and this is the podcast we like to call a Job Castle. Whether it's your first 5K or your next 50K, Running Buddies find stories that are bigger than running. And as we always say, what is bigger than running? It's subscribing to the podcast. Because it's not just one show, and it's not just two shows, it's three shows. It's Running Buddies, it's Soul Sisters, and it's Hybrid Horizons. And our latest episode was with Scott Malloy, who has a gym down in the Ohio area that's on Hybrid Horizons, and there's a great DECA deal if you want to listen to that episode. So you can find that at Running Scared Media wherever we get your podcasts. We've got a great show for you today, and what makes it even better is we have a giveaway. We are very, very fortunate to be partnering up with Mount to Coast for a free giveaway for a pair of shoes. You like you heard that right. A giveaway for a free pair of shoes. All you need to do is enter into the form. It is in the show notes. If you're getting this through social media, you can find the link in our bio. It's fantastic. We really want to thank Nicholas Lehman, who is in a partnership with them, along with Wise Running, for hooking us up with this or our listeners with this great opportunity. So, really, without further ado, we're gonna jump right into the episode. Make sure you listen to it, make sure you share Running Scared Media, Running Buddies, Soul Sisters, Hybrid Horizons. Have a great day and enjoy listening to the episode. On today's show, we're running with Nicholas Lehman, a decorated mountain and ultra runner who, besides competing in some of the toughest ultra races in Europe, finished first in the UTMB PTL, a notoriously difficult and challenging race. Welcome to the show, Nicholas. Thank you, Jamie. And uh I'm really happy to be here today. Thank you very much. We're happy to have you. So um for starters, uh, to kind of bring the listener into your world, we kind of just ask some quick hits about what your run will be like, where you may be running, uh just some just some short questions. So um where are you today? Where are you going to be running and where are you located?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, today I'm in Geneva, uh, just for a short run, uh 30-minute run, uh, because uh tomorrow I have a not a big one, but a challenging one for me. Uh 50 kilometer, but very fast. And uh I need to say that it's not my preferred uh distance.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

It it you know it's funny you say that. It's one of the things, and I'll get into it a little bit later on, but it's one of the things that I noticed about um looking at your results and looking at the races that you've chosen to do and the ones that you've excelled at. You're right, the shorter distances are not necessarily the ones. It's it's it's the longer distance ones that you you kind of rock it up, but we'll uh we'll get to that. Um when you're in Geneva and you're running, is there what is something interesting about running in that space? If if you could paint a picture, what do we see, what do you see right now?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Uh I'm in the countryside of Geneva, and in Geneva, uh it's um it's really it's a really uh beautiful place to run, uh place to run because uh we are very close to uh to the campaign, uh to the to the countryside and to the mountain. So uh in 10 minutes uh I can uh I can go uh in for example I see the Mont Salève. It's uh it's the closest mountain from Geneva, and uh I can I can go for a run uh in just 10 minutes. So it's uh not it's a city but uh very close to to the mountain.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

If somebody was going to Geneva or the countryside around, um, I know you're running in a specific location today. Is there one trail or one area or even in the city that someone would need to go and run if they were, let's say, a tourist and they wanted to go for a run to see a little bit of the city or the surrounding areas? Is there one area that you would recommend they go do?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Uh yes, I think uh I think perhaps the the the trail that I will run tomorrow because you are just along uh a river named the Rhone, uh and it's a very blue, beautiful and quiet place uh uh with some uh some uh some section uh on the road, some section uh on a trail, and yeah, it's uh it's uh really a place that I that I love.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

That's good. And and I know you've got a big one tomorrow. So what is the fitness goal today? Is this like a shakeout? Is this just uh just to kind of just to get in some miles, some kilometers? What's what's really your goal? Just or just to get out?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, just to get out because I I can't stay at home uh a day, so uh I need to to go uh just for five uh kilometer out. It's not possible to stay at home. Uh I I hear you, right? It's a really uh challenge for me uh because uh uh with a beautiful uh weather, like like today, I just want to go in mountain, but uh I know that I need to rest a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

I'm the same way, especially when the weather's nice, which unfortunately in southern Ontario it's never nice. And in Canada, it's six months of winter and just it's a city, so it's you know, you're just battling the weather. But as soon as it gets to March or April, we do get the sunshine peeking through the clouds, and I find the same thing. Even when it's not nice, I still find that I need to get myself out running and just you know, just to kind of work up a sweat and feeling good. But I'm I'm curious that um that feeling of needing to move, that feeling of needing to run. Take us back to the beginning. When did it start for you? In in childhood running? Did your family run? How did you get going with all this active lifestyle?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, I started running about uh 15 years ago. Uh and at the beginning, it was simply to stay fit uh and lose a few kiddos.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Um, and I was lucky enough uh to have a friend who introduced me to the mountain running, and uh that once uh I saw this landscape, uh, it was a total revelation for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So when you were like you said 15 years ago, so as a child, did you have a family that was in the mountains? Did you have a family, or were you more of like kind of did you grow up in a city?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Um no, I was in uh in a city in the north of France, and uh I played rugby. It's really uh a different sport.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah. Actually, it's it's funny. I um I lived with uh a gentleman from the north of France play rugby. His name is Florian, and I knew rugby was always big in the in the British British Isles, right? My mom is Scottish, but I it's he told he told me it was huge in France. People loved playing rugby and football.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

But yeah, yeah, of course, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Do you still play it?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Uh no, no, no. Um my son asked me sometimes to to uh not to play rugby but but uh to do some uh some sport uh like uh like um fighting or something uh uh like that. And I just say it's not possible with the the my running season because it's too risky, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, exactly, right? And I and just with the amount that you're running, you have to and and and the focus. And I I want to talk about that in a minute, but I think I just wanna I want to dive right into sort of a a big question here, and that is the PTL. Um so you won this race, and you know, doing the research, and just from what I've learned about mountain running, skyrunning, trail running, this is this is a beast. You know, this is two to three days, this is like over 300 kilometers. How did you how did you get to the point where A, you you wanted to run this, and then you won it? Like how you know what was the preparation like? I guess I guess before we get into that, um, was this something that you always wanted to run, or was this a natural progression of races that you've been running before that you wanted to take on this particular challenge?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

It's it's a little bit special because for me the PTL it's not a base, but uh it's uh more like a princess. It's just uh the perfect mix between trail running and alpinism, and uh I love both. Uh and it's just uh you uh I don't know uh how I can say uh with another way, but it's it's just a perfect uh experience for me. Um and I discovered the race uh during my first ultra trade. Um I spoke with someone who uh who was on the PTL the year before, and uh I don't know how many uh how many hours uh he spoke about uh that race, and uh uh after the after the discussion, I just say okay, I want to run that one.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Places on the mountain. What are you what are you seeing? What are you hearing? What what is it what is it like to be up there?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Uh you know, you you said for PTL?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

For PTL, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

PTL is just a little bit special because every year it's uh it's uh another uh trail uh with uh other with to discover other parts of the Mont Blanc Massif, you know? Uh so uh it's very technical and you discover uh always uh something else.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

So then how did how do you train? Because I I talked to a lot of a lot of trail runners and a lot of a lot of runners that have run um your you know the bad water, the Moabs, like the the the longer really like uh duration distance events. Um how do you how do you get yourself ready for this training event? And and I kind of want to get a little bit granular on this. How like was it a year in training? Is it five days a week? Is it two years of training? Is it seven days a week? How what's the what's the runway for this, Nicholas?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yes, I I prefer to speak about uh a lifestyle, a lifestyle uh rather than a training. Uh um, of course, I I do intensive session and uh I structure my wigs, but the most important things for me is simply uh spending spending as much time as possible uh outside in the mountain. So it's really uh a lifestyle uh and to be outside uh as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

So you you ran this with a with a partner. Like what role did he what what what role did that did they play um either as a support, as a motivation. How how important is it to have that person with you?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Uh it's it's really important because it's uh a team race. So uh we run, we have run together so much that we don't need the many words uh during the race to understand each other. Uh so each team uh has his uh unique dynamic. Uh it's uh a little bit like a couple, you know. You you have to find your your personal way to function uh when things get difficult.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Absolutely. Um so then you finished you finished PTL. So then did running change for you after that, after that um that great result? Uh was there more attention? Uh did you did you get to a place where you said, um, yeah, I can accomplish that. I I I want to I want to move on to the next challenge. How did how did either your running, your physical running, or your mental approach change after you had completed that?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Uh I I think it's exactly the same because uh the the the fact that uh you you don't know is that uh I won the PTL a first time in uh 20 uh 17. That's that's a second time uh I I won it in uh 20 uh 23. And uh yes, for me it's just uh the place where I I want to be, and uh I will run it again uh in uh six months, and uh yes, it's just uh normal. It's just uh as I said before, a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Do I you know it's it like you said, you're gonna you want to run it again and it's a lifestyle. And and then you know they always say like when you're when you're wanting to change something, like or you know, maybe quit drinking or smoking, you need to make a lifestyle change. So I guess in that sense, uh running these big long races over and over again is just part of your lifestyle. So it there's that easy sort of transition. Do any of the other events um just for the uh that week of events at UTMB, do they interest you at all?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Uh yes, I won I ran uh last three days uh an event in uh Swiss uh named the UTMB Eiger. Uh the 2250 kilometer, and I will run it again because uh uh Grendelvald is like Chamonix in France, it's just a real beautiful place uh with uh amazing landscape uh and uh a trail uh with a lot of uh technical section and uh yes, I I really like uh that place.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

So that that one I think you said is 250. Um so we talked about this just but I think before we came on, uh in terms about distances or or maybe just in the the quick hit section there. I've noticed with some research that you excel at those longer distances. And and why do you think that is? Can you take us through why do you think uh is it your physiology? Is it your the way you're training for stamina? Uh what is it about what is it about how you're getting yourself prepared that makes you excel at the really, really um long ultra distances?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Um I'm not sure, but uh I as I say that I am really often outside and uh uh last weekend, for example, I was just out uh for uh for two days of alpinism. So uh I really like to be uh a long time outside to to have time to think about uh a lot of uh a lot of things. So for me, it's just uh spending uh time uh and be uh where I where I want to be. So it's not it's not a race, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Uh it's just uh you have such a laid-back sort of demeanor, right? Are you like that just in your writing? Like you know, you have this very cerebral quality about when you're talking about your running, not not matter-of-fact, but just yeah, this is what I do. I I like the so you clearly are committed, and but you're also would you would consider yourself semi-professional, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Is that what that's no, no, I I can't say it's semi-professional because uh uh if you want we can speak about more personal partnership uh with some brand, but uh it's more uh it's more feeling with someone, uh and uh yes, more feeling with someone with products, uh but uh I I don't want to to to be um how I can say uh to to be uh uh professional a pro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Uh because uh uh my um um yeah, how can I say um well I you know what I I'm gonna jump in and I think my question is uh like you you can you can look at the UTMB index, but I you know, even just the eye test of looking at your results and the frequency that you're racing and the like the types of races that you're doing. So how like I know I understand high-level athletes like yourself, even if not fully professional or professional, there is um uh c considerations, right? There are things that you know need to take precedence when you're when you're training, like you just talked about the anecdote with your son, right? And when it's race season. How how do you balance the rigorous training for the running that you want to do with with like a full-time job with a family? I I find um I'm always interested in how athletes you know are are managing that, especially with such a daunting like race load. And I like I have two kids myself and and a full-time job, and I do this, and you know, sometimes I'm barely hanging on. So how how do you how do you manage that? How do you balance that?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

I I need to be uh organized, um but uh really organized because uh uh sometimes it's uh uh to be able to do a training, it's uh it's just uh about 10 minutes. Um so uh yeah, I I need to plan everything.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah, yeah. Not not so much with you know, it doesn't lead itself to a lot of like spontaneity, I guess, right? Everything has to because when you go and train, it's hours on end, right? And are you um you're traveling, right, when you're training at times? Uh uh so sorry, could you repeat the question the question? You are you're traveling sometimes, right? To different yeah, yeah, yeah, but but not not frequently, sometimes just okay. Yeah, it just you know I just find the um the hours on and to get yourselves ready for these and you know the nutrition. And um are you are you actively do you work with a coach right now?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Uh uh in the past, uh yes, but uh right now no. Uh because it's more easy for me to to plan uh my my session alone. Uh sometimes uh I need uh to to to stay at work on something uh like that. And uh it's easier for me to to to plane alone uh all my uh my organization.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah. So okay, so I want to shift gears to uh to kind of like more of um more of like a kind of like a macro look. And it's a question that I ask a lot of of the athletes that we that we have on here because after competing in ultras for as long as you have and and seeing the growth of the sport, um where do you think or how do you think running is kind of professionalized in the last little while? Um and when I say you know, let's say uh a 10 year span uh from when you first started, what do you what are the differences that you see even at UTMB, the events outside of just there being more people? Um how how have you seen the sport grow?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Um it's a good question. Uh I'm not specifically for against big organizations, uh, but I choose projects uh that look uh like uh me, you know. Uh uh for example, I don't uh I don't always recognize myself in huge events like the UTMB uh 100 mile uh race because uh there are just too many people for my test. Yeah. So sometimes I prefer to just grab my shoes on a Friday after work and uh go for a solo tour of the Mont Blanc. It happens sometimes, uh, and uh no one can stop me doing that. So it's not a problem for me that uh uh if so someone else wants to run in the UTMB event, you know, uh everyone can choose uh their own path.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Do you see, and and this is I understand this is solely your your opinion. Do you think that from what you see, do you think that's an inherently a good thing of the growth in the sport? Or because I I've definitely heard uh different sides of the of the argument here. Is it a is the growth in the sport a a a positive thing? Or does that take away from the niche nature of ultra running? Because I remember when I started running, ultra marathons were something that was like Just something very different. Very, you know, it wasn't it wasn't proliferated in the mainstream like vernacular in any way, mainstream media. Do we see this as a as a positive thing, the growth of the sport?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

For me, it's not positive or negative. You know, uh everyone can uh can uh find uh their own way. So uh for me it's you know it's not a problem. Uh if uh if we can if the this kind of organization of the growth of the sport can uh give uh can give uh inspiration uh to to young generation, uh it's a good thing for me, for example.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

That's actually a good point, and one that is not often made in terms of um role modeling for younger runners that are coming up and seeing that there could be a path for more visibility, uh potential for you know, even just becoming a uh a runner that can be sustained through their through their profession, which was very, very difficult, I think, even just a few years ago. But um, you know, your journey is is gonna take you to some races and uh this this summer, but uh really quickly, I know that um you had your your one sponsorship with WISE, but you uh you're just getting hooked up with uh with MTC, Mount to Coast. Um can you take us just really quickly how that all came about? Because that's that's exciting for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah, yeah, it's uh exciting. And uh for me, my partnership with some brands, it's uh it's all about uh the feeling uh with the products and uh especially with the people. Uh when I uh meet uh Mount to Cost, uh I meet first uh someone uh really uh um really involved in two uh ultra running for years. So that's the reason why uh we discuss and uh and uh it's not you know uh a process like uh like you can find in the in uh other uh part of the economy, you know. Uh it's more about uh sharing the same passion about running.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, absolutely. Um and I know that uh they've been they've been good enough to do a little uh giveaway for us later that we can we can talk about. But um yeah, I I've actually heard very good things about the uh the the product from some other runners. So I'm I think that's uh an exciting an exciting um thing for you going forward, right? Uh yeah I okay, so we always uh we always take a little bit of time and I ask you what we call a running scared media question. Okay. So we are running scared media, and part of the the reason this whole thing came to fruition, you know, now five, six years ago is uh I was very intrigued and interested in um the feeling of uh the adrenaline rush when you're maybe fearful or scared to propel you forward, like like literally and figuratively. So can you share a moment in your run, your runs, any races, when you're on the mountain alone or even with somebody? Has there been a moment where you have had a fear, a visceral feeling of uh being kind of uneasy in a moment and that kind of uh propelling you forward, or even just a moment in a race where you've had a mental fatigue, a mental, a mental moment where you're not sure you're gonna be able to get past it? What uh Nicholas, what has been your your running scared moment?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Uh I think the more years go by, the more anecdotes uh I have. I don't think if it's a good thing or not, but um, and um if I look back at the the 2023 PTL, uh a real moment of uh vulnerability was uh the very last descent. Uh we were on a uh the on a very sharp and exposed ridge uh with a loose rock, and uh we had been moving for three days with almost no sleep, uh so your balance uh is not perfect. And uh and mystic was absolutely not allowed because of the the void of uh both site. So it's for me, it's one of my um my uh scary moment uh in a in a trial and erase.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

No, that that that makes a lot of sense. Uh I'm reading a great book, um uh Matthew Walker. It's entitled uh Why You Sleep. And it's interesting how A, how critical it is to just everything you talked about, like balance and just being sort of in the moment and not having hallucinations, uh, but also to the fact that you you can never kind of catch up on your sleep, right? So when you when you when people are engaged in these um these long events, it should be noted you're pushing your body to the limit. But you know, yeah, so you like this is not just we're out for a run on the mountain, like there are a lot of things to consider and it can be dangerous, and and I think that's why you call them ultras. So you know, um I just want to I want to ask you one thing, maybe like um a technical question, and just because you mentioned it in in that uh that quick little story with PTL 2023, we don't really get into the technical aspects on on this show. I'm more interested in um in in larger sort of ideas. But in terms of running downhill, it's a very technical thing. How how do you what do you do when you run downhill? And and almost almost set it up for us a technical way. What's what's your body like? Uh are you leaning forward, leaning backwards? What are some things to consider? It's just it's a question that I've gotten asked from some of our listeners, you know, some tips or tricks in terms of running fast downhill. I I know it's different for everybody, but what works for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, it it depends the race. For example, if it's uh very technical, uh we uh it's mandatory to go not to go too fast because uh it's too uh dangerous. Uh and uh in long race, uh it's another problem. You you will run uh for a long time, so you need to uh to to to be really careful about uh your uh your muscle, you know. So you don't need you it's it's it's not a good thing to go too fast uh in descent, but it's not for uh for technical reason, it's just to to preserve your body.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Absolutely. So you mentioned some races coming up, but what is what is one really big goal that you have that you would like to accomplish? Maybe you know, tech a running goal, but maybe just something uh a goal in athletics in general, something, and we always do like a a one to three year time frame. What is something that you are you're focused in on? I if you can't tell us and you gotta keep it secret, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, no. Uh for for for example, for this year, I have three big races, one uh in La Réunion. It's not uh it's not the diagonal desous, but but just uh uh very um something very similar, just a little bit longer. Uh I will run again on the UTMB Ager uh and again on the PTL, but I have another big project uh and we will uh make a documentary. Uh uh I want yeah yeah, I want to to try to to uh to do uh four FKT in a row uh at the Mont Blanc, uh using uh four different paths to go to the summit uh and go back to the valley uh in four days. So it's more uh between alpinism and uh and trail running.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

That sounds incredible. Is that something has that been in the works for a while or something something uh recent? Like how far how far are you along in the process in terms of attempting that?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Uh it's I I think I think about the idea two years ago, uh, and it's really important for me because I discover the the the mountain and uh and running uh in uh the same massif. So uh uh I I think about uh something to do uh to to um to just to be conscious uh to just to to to um uh to uh how can I say to uh to represent uh the past uh from the beginning of my uh career of runner, if I can say, to to now. And you've got uh documentary crew ready to go and they'll be up there with you doing it, taking footage and then yes, it's a it's a little bit special because all the uh uh four FKT uh will be done uh without any assistance, so uh as an unsupported mode. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh I need to be alone during the the the FKT uh and we will uh react some section uh with uh you know a cinematic view. We will react after the the the record.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Wow. That sounds uh that sounds amazing. Not only is it going to be uh you know kind of exhilarating just seeing uh you know getting that done, uh, but I can just see the scenery and just the the visuals that will come with that. I think that will be very I think that will be very well received. Thank you. Yeah, no, no, no, it's great, great. I'll be checking back in to see if we can you know we get a pre-screening on that, but no, uh that's amazing. We're we're kind of just at the end. Um two things. The one thing is I always like to, you know, uh advice is perhaps not the right word. Um words of wisdom for the listener, somebody that is just thinking about starting running, perhaps somebody that is uh a serious runner and is considering moving into ultra marathons. Anything that you can share that you've that you've learned over what's really 15 years now of running?

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah. Um I think if I could just say one thing just to to to keep uh a childlike uh naivety, you know, in your project. Uh and uh all will be will be easier.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

It's yeah, just to stay innocent. You know? Exactly. Innocence, right? No, but it's you know it is it is so true. Um just uh my daughter is involved in in something and she's been very innocent until she had her first moment. She's in dance, and she had her first moment where I think the innocence broke apart a little bit. Um and and and the reality of some of the pressures of competing actually hit her. So I think it's a really it's a salient point that you that you bring up. Try to stay innocent, right? Often our mind can be flooded with lots of lots of noise that we need to push out. So I think that is a that is a really, really good point. And to finish, uh, we mentioned it earlier, but uh, but Mount to Coast has been good enough to to to put us up for a pair of I think a pair of shoes and uh a little bit of a giveaway with the episode, maybe to um uh you know to commemorate you joining the crew. So I want to thank absolutely thank you for for helping with with that and Mount to Coast. And with pleasure. Yeah, that's that's fantastic. We will um uh you know, when we release this, if you're listening to it, it uh it's already been released. Uh we'll have some details uh in the uh in the show notes in terms of how people can enter into that. But that is that's amazing. So again, thanks to Mount to Coast. We'll make sure to shout them out.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Um Nicholas, thank you for if if I gave yeah, if I if I can give uh last advice uh for the Montreucos uh uh uh uh model choose the H one. It's just uh the the Guarda one is just uh amazing. Folks, there you have it, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

From straight from straight from Nicholas Slavon. No, uh no, that's that's amazing. We'll do that. I'll I'll you know we'll we'll be uh we'll be in contact with this as as we kind of get this thing ready, but that's uh that's fantastic. Listen, thank you for uh for sitting down with us, um having uh uh having a chat. I hope your run has gone well. Again, your um your outlook on running, your chill demeanor is is is so refreshing. And uh it was great talking with you. All the best. Good luck with your races going forward. And I say this to every guest, uh, you know, we um you know, we really appreciate you taking the time and we're gonna keep in contact. We'll send a quick little message out to find how things are going, and we really look forward to uh hearing more about the documentary. Okay. So Nicholas, we'll keep it.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Thank you very much, Jamie.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Thank you very much. Okay. Bye.