Running Buddies featuring Lisa Sweetman

On todays show welcome Lisa Sweetman, the new race director for the Five Peaks Ontario trail running series. Sweetman shares her personal journey, detailing how she used running as a tool for physical and spiritual recovery after surviving a brain tumor. We explore the unique challenges of training in harsh Canadian winters, the importance of safety for female runners, and the logistics of managing inclusive athletic events. Sweetman highlights her commitment to the delicate balance between race direction and environmental stewardship and diversity, aiming to make trail running accessible to athletes of all skill levels.  We also discuss affordability in sports and the task of negotiating the rising costs of participating in endurance sports.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I'm Jamie Roberts, and this is the podcast We Like to Call it Job Fire. Whether it's your first 5K or your next 50K, Running Buddies find stories that are bigger than running. And as I always say, what is bigger than running, subscribing to this podcast. Because with this podcast, you don't get just one or two, but you get three shows. You get Running Buddies, you get Soul Sisters, and you get Hybrid Horizons, which is covering all things functional fitness, DECA, Hyrux, Calisthetics, lots of amazing stuff. In fact, we just had Janie Stell on our last uh episode of Hybrid Horizons. Definitely check that out. It is like a very, very interesting conversation in an area that I actually didn't know a whole lot about. So Ari had a uh you know, had a great conversation with her, really informative. So be sure to uh to take a listen when you have a minute. In terms of listening, we have Lisa Sweetman on the show today. And Lisa is uh a runner, uh Canadian runner. And she's also the race director or the new race director for Five Peaks Ontario. So Five Peaks is a race series in Canada. Uh they kind of build themselves as the intro to trail. They've got lots of different distances, and they've actually got some beautiful courses uh in some great spots. So uh we're having Lisa on the show today. We had a great conversation with her, uh, really talk about her beginnings uh as a runner, some of the uh um hurdles she's had to face in her running journey, and then her transition into race direction in Ontario. And what's awesome is that I'm actually gonna be out at some of those races. I'm gonna be racing the June 6th race at Crawford Lake. It's an 18k trail race, and then I'm gonna finish up doing the uh doing the September one, which is a little bit longer, so I'm really excited about that. And what is fantastic is that Five Peaks decided to give us a little bit of a deal uh for all running scared media listeners. So if you use the code RUNNINGSCARED10, uh you're gonna get a 10% discount on your registration. So they've got five races. Go to fivepeaks.com and use the code RUNNINGSCARED10 for a little bit of a discount. This is a nice segue into I'm gonna get on a little bit of a soapbox here. You know, a little bit of uh a little bit of a rant, okay? So here we go. Things are way too expensive. You know, this is like uh um an endurance, an adventure podcast where we talk to all sorts of incredible athletes from all over the world. Uh but I'm talking about affordability. Things are expensive and they don't seem to be getting any cheaper. And this is something that I've really been thinking a lot about. Uh and it's bothering me because I think that you know people should be able to do the things that they really enjoy and they should be able to go and not have to spend a fortune in order to do them. Uh so we're running Scare Media, we are launching an affordability flyer. It's an email newsletter. Uh and it's got discounts and deals and giveaways curated by us to bring uh more affordability to you, the listener, the athlete, the adventurer. Uh because uh we just think it's important that you're able to do those things. Uh so uh if you want to get access to some of those discounts and those deals, um you know, think about subscribing to The Flyer. Drop it in the show notes so you can follow it on our socials. Uh but affordability is something that I'm gonna be talking about uh in almost every episode. I just think it's very, very important, and we're trying to bring some affordability out to people. So if you're like me and you think that things should be a little bit more affordable, we're gonna do everything we can here at Running Scared Media to help in that regard. So subscribe to that and we'll send those out to you once a month. Without further ado, let's launch right into our episode, our conversation with Lisa Sweetman. On today's show, we're running with Lisa Sweetman, an educator, runner, and new race director for Five Peaks, Ontario. Welcome to the show, Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Hi, thanks for having me. This is gonna be so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Of course, yeah. No, it's always good. We got uh runners and people from all over the world, and what is awesome today is uh this one is local. So can you tell us where are you running?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Absolutely. So I am on the Bruce Trail, just uh in the Dundas, Ontario section. So my family lives out here. It is honestly my favorite place to run, my favorite place to be on the trails. Um, and I'm just winding my way down on a little side trail, and then I'm gonna jump on the Dundas Valley Conservation Area main loop, which anybody who has run or hiked around here will know it very well. It's a it's about a three and a half uh kilometer loop with some really great climbs and and some nice descents, and and I use it often when I am training for any kind of trail adventures because it gives me some good time and and I can just lock in on the loop and round and round we go. Um, there's a million obviously different directions you can go, lots of incredible side trails and with uh waterfalls to check out, and just so many beautiful landmarks in in this beautiful part of Ontario.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

And how how long are you gonna be out today on the trail?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

So I am uh hoping to be out for 10K of my monkey. Um I'm coming back from injury, so I'm not at my full running pro S at this moment. But uh yeah, my goal is to be out here for 10k right now.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

It's nice. I I was just saying, kind of um, you know, off off record there, just uh, you know, I talking to runners and they're running all these, like in the Pyrenees, or they're down in Southern California and the southwest, and you know, it looks amazing down there, but I I I I never get a chance to run there. Um but where you are today, I run all the time and it is uh it's amazing. In fact, one of the things that I love about it is just how beautiful it is. Uh, if you get there on like kind of the sun hitting some of those, some of those main trails, like it looks like you're in like a Lord of the Rings movie. You know what I mean? Oh my god, yeah with the side moss and everything, like it's so nice. And I I think you you raised a really good point, you know, if you're getting ready for any trail events, because there are good climbs, there are good side trails, but the main trail itself is is very wide, so you can, you know, you can get a few people if you're running and you don't feel cramped. Um, single tracks, double track, again, off the sides, but the main one is is quite good. Uh, so I love it there. Um, is I'm just curious, you know, there's a lot of different spots to kind of run in this area. If you weren't going to be in uh on the main loop in Dundas, is there another spot that you really like to run in kind of the Dundas area, Scarpment area that um that you get out to sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

You know, that's a great question. I mean, to be honest, I do when I'm here, I'm doing a lot of solo running. And as a woman runner, I have to be really mindful of like where I'm doing my running and and what time of day I'm doing it and and safety purposes. So I generally don't go somewhere that is new to me when I'm by myself. So um I will go like run out. I like uh I'm I'm I don't love being on the road, but sometimes it feels like the safer choice. So I will like go out past McMaster and do some like meandering around there along heading out of Dunda towards Hamilton. Um I've done the Hamilton Road to Hope past marathon a couple of times and and uh really enjoy coming along the water there and just being in the in the energy of a bigger race. Um but for me the trail uh I will I will do the adventuring when I have another person with me, but yeah, I truly do just stick to what I know, keep myself safe, and be mindful of my of where I am when it's just me.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

No, that's that's smart. Yeah, two things. Um one was when you're talking about big races in Hamilton, have you done the ATB?

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So no. I I think that I have been afraid of the ATB um for as long as it's existed. And for some reason it just hasn't appealed to me. I you know what? I love training in the winter. Like I am an all-weather warrior. Yeah, I was out every snowstorm this past season, and you know you're from you know you live here, like Ontario got hammered this winter and we're inundated, and I was so cold, so much snow, and I do not shy away from any of that. I love I love putting myself in challenging circumstances. I love going for a run in the pouring rain. I love going for a run when the conditions are crap because then you're so prepared for whatever comes your way, race day or you know, whatever you're adventuring on. I I love training for adversity. Um but for some reason ATV just seems bonkers. So maybe, maybe I'll get healthy enough to give it a try.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

You know what? That's a it's a good point. I um I ran it this year. I just ran the 15. I'm kind of working myself up. I'll do the 30 next year, but I worked. I don't think, yeah, I did pretty well too. I I don't think I really understood the gravitas of um like training with the guys there. Uh, just had a small group like through the winter because we've had some milder winters, but this winter was like you just said, it was so cold, but like we're talking minus 30, minus 35. But I think when we came out and actually did it, we were more prepared because it was a generally, you know, it wasn't warm, but it was a mild day. So that winter training, it's it's a total beast, eh? Like to just even the mental when you go outside and you just know that it's gonna be so cold.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

But um well, that's the yeah, I mean that's the thing about that kind of training, right? When because we're gonna run into things, you're gonna run into things and races that you can't anticipate, but by training for adversity, you can you can handle it so much better. So I'm a big fan of that.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Absolutely. And then just on your other point about safety, you know, I think that that's that's um that's a huge point. When I was living in Toronto, uh, I used to live by um High Park. And High Park is like, you know, if you don't know the Toronto, it's a huge park sort of in the southwest of the city. It's amazing, just it's very busy. But I used to I remember moving there and then going for my runs sort of at dusk and just seeing the number of like solo female runners out in that space. And I was surprised because it's um it's a huge park and it's in in a lot of areas is not well lit. And that was something like you know, that kind of like struck me there, you know what I mean? Maybe like this illusion of safety, and they've had some incidents in that park. So I think it's it's absolutely smart, you know, to stick to what you know. Um anybody really, you know, just um yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I mean, there's just like yeah, from a safety story angle. But yeah, from there's just so many elements to the process, like things that we consider when running at women that that are important to consider. So making sure people know where we are. I often don't wear my hair in like a high ponytail. And you might think, oh, right, that's something that somebody and not that I'm constantly fearful, that's definitely not the case, but I just I'm mindful of like my checks and balances to ensure that I'm safe because things have happened and things do happen. And you know, those couple incidences in Hyde Park were really jarring for the Toronto running community.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yes, they were, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Um, and with with like with an assurance of safety. So yeah, it's an ongoing thing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Absolutely. Okay, I'm I want to switch gears here, and we've kind of been talking a little bit about running, but I'm curious if we kind of go back to the beginning, how did you get involved in in running? I you know, I find that everybody has a different way. They had a a parent that was running, they they you know, they were battling trauma and they started running. Like there's all different sort of pathways into the sport um and into the activity. So, how did you get started?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, that's that's such a fun question, and and truly there are so many entry points. And um, sort of initially, uh the first race I ever did was the 10K Nike run on Toronto Island. So I think this would have been about like 03 reckon, probably. We don't know like 03, 04, 05, somewhere in there. Um, and I just my roommate and I were like, let's do a big goal, one and done, you know. And so we we trained for it, and I love that moment where you're passing a threshold you haven't crossed before. So when I when we had done a six-k training run, I just I just thought, how is this possible? How will we ever run 10 kilometers? And and the race day was so amazing, and it felt like being bit by the bug. And uh and my relationship with running began. I had no concept or knowledge of trail running at all at that point. It wasn't until 2017 that I I found trail running, but uh I I started doing different little races and um the wrong word, but short shorter distance races that still have like a real punch, and and I was just using running as a way of I guess just um getting exercise and being fit and just and and having some fun. And then it really morphed into something so much more for me. Um in 2010, I was diagnosed with a pituitary brain tumor and running taken away from me when I was ill, and the loss of it really highlighted how much it was part of my life and how much it meant to me, and and what I realized was wasn't a hobby, you know, it wasn't for exercise, it was for my spirit and my fortitude and my confidence, and and so running when I got sick and I couldn't run, and I went through a lot of different surgeries related to things that the brain tumor caused for me. I had to start running and stop running over and over. Um, and when I had recovered from the actual surgery to remove the tumor in my in my brain, I had to walk again. I was in a bed for 10 days straight without moving, and it's very humbling to start again. And I think that my barometer for wellness became when I could move my body again, and I have used running as you know, a physical, a mental, an emotional, a spiritual recovery ever since. And uh and I I would love to see myself running and moving in this way, well, well, well into the far reaches of whatever I'm granted on this on this earth in this body. Yeah, I I could I could wax poetic on on running for sure forever.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Oh my god. So it means something special. That that's an incredible story. Um so uh when you were when you were coming back from that um you know from from that event that happened, uh were you was it incremental? How long did it take to kind of to to bring it all back uh fully? Um were there any pitfalls along the way? I'm sure there was, and how did you navigate that? I'm also curious, a running gen, you know, I know you said you were doing a lot of solo running, but it tends to be a community driven activity. What was your support system like when you were coming back off that um off that tumor?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, I mean that's a great question. I think the circumstances have my of my life have have really led me to actually be much more of a solo runner because well, especially since 20 uh 17 when when my son was born. Um, you know, for the last 10 years I've been running as a parent, and then it's just a different thing, which I think maybe you are you also parenting in this life, Jamie?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

I am, I am too. Two busy children.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Two busy children, yes, indeed. Yeah, my son is nine, and my daughter is uh gonna be five this summer, and uh and kids are like the same age. Oh, there you go. So you know exactly nine and seven. Yes, there you go. You have to train when you can. And so I do a lot of 4:30 alarms to get up, and like all through the winter I ran at 5 a.m. just to get the work in and get my time in before I had to, you know, resume the role of mother, teacher, wife, you know, partner, spouse, that whole thing. And um, and so it was definitely uh something that just doesn't like not a lot of people want to go for a run with you at 4 30 in the morning. Let's just say that. Some people do. And uh a couple of my neighbors will will venture out with me from from time to time, but uh it's not it's not a hot time for a run through, let's say. Um but uh to answer your question, you know, it was it was really just like actually more my friends and my family who are not runners, but but people who understand what I needed to do and where I needed to be to feel whole and healthy again. And I mean my parents and my sister are extraordinary. Um, when this all happened in 2010, I hadn't I hadn't yet met my wife, or you know, that that life was a was a you know distant glimmer. And so I it was really relying on my friends and my family and just you know putting one foot in front of another, going out for you know a 10-minute walk, and then eventually it turns into a 20-minute walk, and then you can run you know 10 minutes, and I'm very good. Sorry, I lost I lost my head from it. Um I love the timing of that. I'm really good at whoop it sounds like I did not fall the current. I did not fall. Um yeah, I'm just very good at starting over. So I uh just keep trying, never give up.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

That's a huge but you know what, that's a huge characteristic, resilience, right? Sounds like from you know, you had to be incredibly resilient and uh determined, and that is something that is transferable to running and you know, especially all the different things you can encounter you know between life and and the activity that uh that you love. It's an interesting point about you know getting up at 4 30, 5 o'clock to get your runs in. Like it's I I'm the same, I'm the same way. Like it doesn't work if you're just you know, when you start when you become a parent and and you know, I'm a husband and all those all those things, right? You you have to manage and figure out a way to fit all the the puzzle pieces together. And you know, when you're trying to fit like a triangle piece in a square hole and move kids' stuff around, doesn't work, right? It's like you kind of just have to pick pick your spots. And there's um there's a run club out here, uh Early Birds Run Club, and like I think like the the mantra is like the same thing, right? Like we're gonna provide something for you. It's really small. Um, but uh yeah, they they kick it off at like 5 a.m. in the morning, their runs. And their runs are amazing. Yeah, just because they and again, it's a small group and um it's just a nice option if you want to go run with people at like that early in the morning because it's often dark, you know, especially in Ontario for you know what I mean? So um, but that's uh that's good. I I'm curious, you know, it's you've had like a this this whole like kind of arc of this running kind of life journey. What um, and we were talking about this just before we got started, but what kind of events do you do you like now? Is it is you know, trail, road, like like ultra distance, shorter distance, more technical, like kind of where are you at right now, 2026? Um, you know, before we get into your race direction, just terms of you and the types of just the type of running that you enjoy most.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, um that's great. It's it's I I do and you know, I am also the kind of person who's like, I will do whatever and I'll take whatever. Like if you give me, I mean during the pandemic, I ran back and forth in my tiny, tiny, tiny backyard and did 5k in like a 10 meter like stretch. It was absurd. My my family's like, what are you doing? But I I will do anything to go for a run. Now that is not my favorite kind at all. But but uh but I will do backyard ultra. Um but yeah, no, I love I do love trail is my preference, absolutely. It's hard living in downtown Toronto getting a ton of trail time, so I I will I'll do what I can. But um, you know, some of my favorite things like I I love going out to B T and I've done the Squamish fifty, fifty K twice, and and that was An incredible experience for me. I never in a million years could have pictured myself as an ultra runner. It just felt like something that other people can do, and you know, elite people can do, and to be able to do that race and to have done it twice just was phenomenal for me. And I think one of the runs I'm most proud of was on the 10-year anniversary of my tumor coming out. So in December of 2020, uh also pandemic time, so it was um heavily orchestrated, but I did 100K in Toronto to celebrate the 10 years. Um and that that was a really special feat for me. I had a different page friend or family member come for each 10K uh section, if you will, and um we didn't even hug or like stand near each other. My father did the birth 10k with me and I didn't even give him a hug. We kept our six feet and we honored, you know, what was expected, but but I was able to do this uh this 100K in celebration of my 10 years, and my my vision is is 200k for the 20 years. So um I've got uh four years of training ahead of me, and that that that really kind of is the ultimate goal uh at this point.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Oh, that's so cool. I love that idea. So you had 10 different people coming in for the 10 different increments of of that hundred, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah, we we I think two people did 20k stretches just for just because I did I went out, so we used my house as home base, and since it was mostly 10k out and back to like refuel and get you know not have to carry too much stuff and not burden too many people in my life with crewing, especially at a time like that. Yeah, um, you know, I had envisioned that it would be very different, but uh we all envisioned things to be very different in 2020 than they were. So um yeah, it was uh it was just a really great way to celebrate a lot of things. I like to I like to make a lot of meaning from my running. So my very first road marathon, which I did the Scotiabank um marathon there in Toronto, which I'll never do again because I wanted to cry the entire back half, but uh, but I wore one of those paste bracelets that um that the running room prints, and I I wrote a name of a different person for every kilometer, and I flipped it inside out, so it just you know it said one to 42, and then I had a different name for each for each kilometer of someone in my life that was important to me or someone that needed needed their own little love coming their way. Um yeah, I just I really like the make meaning uh from from my running.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

That's yeah, that's awesome. Like I when you were going to um, like you said, you know, you never saw yourself as someone who was gonna be doing those ultra events, and I'm I'm kind of the same way. Like, what was what was like that mental hurdle that you had to uh that you had to get over? Did you just say, hey, you know what, I'm just gonna do it? Was there like have you had a mentor? Is there is there a runner that you've looked up to? Like, I you know, to me, I I feel like um kind of when you get there, you're like, oh, you know, maybe I could always been here, but when you're not there yet, there is something that that you kind of have to overcome to move into that next area. What what was that for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, I mean, gosh, that's a really lovely question. And I I like the way I like the way you put that. Um I I think it I think these things are all they all come down to belonging and and an ability to see yourself in the space, right? And so I got really knee deep into like all the documentaries about ultra running and got crazy obsessed with the Barclay and you know the the the standard route where where you know Courtney DeWalter is like you're tracking every move she makes, and Killian Dornett's putting his arm in a sling and finishing hard rock as a winner with a cloak and collarbone or whatever it was. And you're you're watching these people do these incredible things, and then and then you start to go deeper and you find that there are so many people doing these incredible things, and you don't have to be an elite person, and and everybody likes to move, and everybody belongs in a space, and and then you see like the golden hour, you know, documentary of the people finishing Western States at the very at the very end, it's cut off, you know, looking against cutoffs and trying to you know achieve a goal and a dream, and you realize that there's no reason that you don't belong in that space because it's people who look just like you, people who are you know grinding and out just like you, they don't have a lead sponsorship, they're not, you know, they don't have uh fancy travel to fancy races, they're just you know putting in the work. And and I think that for me it was seeing people in my community, friends, uh, you know, five peaks was was my gateway into into trail running, and it and you know, I I know we're gonna talk about it, and and I'm eternally grateful for five peaks because that was the space that opened up this whole world to me. And that and I realized, oh, people do this, and I can be a person who does this too. Um, and I've never lacked for drive and never lacked for belief in myself. Um, that's just something that for whatever reason I'll I'll credit my parents, but they you know, they they told me I could do anything and I believed them. Um, and I've always just tried to do that. So um yeah, it's I I think the people who inspire me the most are are are my friends who try races for the first time, or somebody who you know is is struggling on a trail but just like keeps moving. Um yeah, I'm just inspired by everybody who is willing to step to the line and drive.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Oh, that's that's good. You know what, even just talking about um like doing the work and you know all those different races and and those things to kind of motivate you. Um and then you kind of you were talking about five peaks, but you know, the one thing, uh I had a really good conversation with John Kelly, who's a three-time finisher at Barclays. And that's an interesting, that's an interesting podcast. Yeah, he's a really, a really interesting dude. And you know, there were some things that he had at his advantage to do so well in that space. Um but it's a lot of like just the four-letter word work, you know, it's a lot of just like putting in the time to prepare for like like that's an insane event. And I'm gonna think of having to be finished the last two years, you know. Like, if you think I've actually been near that down in that area in that FEF um forest system, it's like wow. Anyways, um, but so anyways, I want to I want to shift over to to five peaks to race direction. So how like how did you so you you've got this running journey that's incredible? Uh, how do you get into race direction? Like, I can kind of your mindset it would be would be perfect in that in that space because as a race director, one thing I've learned is that you're you were concerned about like the safety of people, you want to put on a good experience, you know, ensuring leadership. But how did you get involved with race direction?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Um I know that's such a that's that that's a fun that's a fun question too, because this wasn't like a my vision, it wasn't my long-term plan. I wasn't sort of um headed in this direction, but I've always tried to be a person who recognizes opportunity and and can see when something is meant for them. So I I've you know I've obviously I've enjoyed being part of the events. I've been so I started running with Five Peaches in 2017, and then I became an ambassador, helped build out our kids' zone to get some more fun and experiences for our kids, and was doing some other trail events, obviously to talk about Squamish and um some of the happy trails races, which is another great movie here in Ontario, and uh and and have been friends with Eric Darcy, who was the leader of the Five Peaks of Ontario since starting in 2017, and and um you know he popped me a message in early January. Um, I'd been on a social media hiatus for for a few years. Um, and he taught me a message and he said, I just wanted to let you know uh that I'm not gonna be leading five peaks anymore. I'm I'm ready to retire from this part of my life, and and the the series is ready for someone new. And it was like a fully formed idea just dropped into my head, and I was like, maybe I could do it. Um and that but you know me, that's very, very me. I'm not a I don't think things through too much and weigh pros and cons.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

We have something in common.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

It works out most of the time, so I'm not too worried about that way of being, but but yeah, so uh I just had this moment and I I I I think I said to Eric, I wish I could do it. And he said, You could. And I was like, maybe I can. And then and then um, you know, instantly I I knew I couldn't do it by myself. Um, I have a full-time job as an elementary physic teacher. Uh, as I mentioned already, I'm a mom, two kids, and a wife with my partner Ashley, and it's just, you know, I can't I can't sort of go all in 100%. So immediately Carrie, Carrie Circus jumps to my mind. Um, Carrie and I have known each other since 2017 when we both sort of enter this year together and have been ambassadors together and and have like always had a mutual respect and like a mutual liking of each other, but but didn't know each other sort of deeply like we do now. Um and I just sent her a message and I said, Can you talk? And I looked at my text thread and I hadn't texted her in two years. Um, and she wrote back immediately, yeah, when. And we jumped on the phone. I said, You probably know why I'm calling. She said, I have no idea why you're calling. I said, I think we should put our names forward to Jacob for the race to exposition. And she was like, What? Um, I said, think about it. And she thought about it, I think, for like 30 minutes and was in. So it was very organic, um, very unexpected, and like kind of a dream that I didn't know I had come true.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

That's that's amazing. That's how it's very good. He uh, you know what? It's listen, I'm all for like setting a goal and and working towards it, you know, achieving it and then setting another goal. And I'm like you, I never think like I not that I don't think things through, but I I never think too much about how I can't accomplish something. I'm just like, hey, we're gonna try this, we're gonna do that, and you know, but it's but it's nice when it's um it's nice when it does happen organically. It's nice when when things fall into place. You know, my my wife, her go-to adage is like, you know, thing things will happen when they happen, you know, like you know, everything like kind of will happen when it when it's supposed to. And sometimes I find that frustrating, but it's nice when it does, and you don't have to think too clearly, and it's it's um it happens for you. It's funny, uh, as you're an ambassador. Um somebody that I worked with, Jonathan So is an ambassador. Do you know him? Because he's do you know him?

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yes, I mean I very, very, very timely know him, but I'm gonna know him so well this year.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yeah, yeah. He's uh I worked with him for a long time. He's a big runner, good guy, uh, and he's uh ambassador. Anyways, we kind of connected with this when he knew that I was I started this running thing a few years back and whatnot. But um yeah, it's it'll it's a small community uh and uh and I'm looking forward to getting to know some other people. But so tell so tell me, um now that you're into it and like this your first year and kind of you're getting everything organized, uh, what can what can the listeners expect from Five Peaks Ontario? There's five events. Can you I'm not gonna put you on the spot and say give me your your 30-second pitch, but what can what can potential you know entrance uh you know racers expect from from these races?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

So I think the beautiful thing about Five Peaks is it is an intro to trail type of setup. So we are geared towards people who are new to the sport, while at the same time, there's many challenge levels for folks who are deeper into the sport. Um we have what's called the sport course, Enduro course, and brick course. So that's like essentially one loop, two loops, three loops of a have a course out on one of our conservation areas. So for example, we're gonna be in Telso here just in less than a week. Um yeah, it's very exciting. Nervous, very exciting. Um but we are gonna be it's a it's just a space I I think, and I is my is my hope is that people feel when they get this, get there, that they're automatically belonging and part of it, that they can walk up and they you know that there's strong signage and they know where to go and they know what to do, and we and we don't presume that everybody's been in this kind of space before. Um, and I think that we want to build a place that's very welcoming, very inclusive, that like any person can show up and say, yeah, like that person looks like me, that person looks like me, um, and and have a sense of of just this wide community of diversity and inclusion that makes everybody feel like they belong. And that's really, really important to me. You know, we have a hiking division that sets off a little earlier so that folks who want more time to complete the event can be there, and I think that's a huge um step in terms of in terms of having a space where all bodies can move. Um, you may have caught the uh the Nike uh drama with the um runners welcome, walkers tolerated uh signage that happened in Boston. And you know, I I just love the the way that especially the trail community came right back and was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think that's that energy is not welcome here. So um people can people can move their bodies on the trail at a pace that feels good for them and accomplish a goal and you know, cross that finish line and be proud of themselves and and know that they you know that they were out there doing their best. And that's really what I want to see is that folks trying things that are new to them. Or, you know, maybe you've been a sport runner for the last few seasons with side peaks, like come try the grit, set yourself a goal, do the grit at the end of the season, see what happens. Yeah, you know, you might not make it, but you might make it. And I I love that when you when you can sort of let yourself go, there's so many things that can happen.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

No, I yeah, I think that's to be positioned that way as as a series, I think is amazing. Just to touch on that Nike thing, I don't understand um who who sanctioned that because it's a divisive message. And I I I understand you might be trying to be tongue-in-cheek and trying to be a little bit funny, but especially with like it it was in like red and black. I I don't I don't understand really the thinking behind that and really the the you know the benefit to to moving in that direction for your sloganing, but I guess somebody will have to answer answer to that because yeah, the um the repudiation of that was like swift, and it's all I saw for for the next uh you know few days. But so we won't be seeing any signs like that at Five Peaks events.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

No, no, you will be seeing very fun encouraging final five. Um, Carrie is also a graphic designer, and so she's created some beautiful imagery that we're gonna have along the course, and um, you know, we're really just excited to bring some um you know some energy and some fun. And you know, Eric's done a phenomenal job. He has been at the home for you know the last decade, and he has built such an incredible community, and you know, it feels a little bit like the teenager getting the keys to the car, and you're like, Joe, mess up the car. Um, and so we we do definitely we want to do him proud, we want to make Jacob proud, and and we want the whole community to feel you know the love and and care. I think when there's change, it can be uncomfortable. And and I know that when it was announced, a lot of people were worried, and rightfully so. You know, when when a beloved race director moves on, it can be it can be unsettling what the series is gonna be like. And so Carrie and I um are just so committed to to upholding everything it has has been and growing it into it's it's you know a new iteration of the series. So we're we're we're honestly so excited. It's all I think about. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, you know what, uh honestly, as someone who has uh is getting back into uh doing a lot of racing, I I did a lot of racing before, but I took it's funny we talk about just parent. Like when my kids were young, I just took time off. I just didn't have the time to do it. I didn't have the time to train and I was busy with work. Like I'm a teacher as well. I've I've moved into a different role, but it's still an education and there's lots of changes happening in that space. Uh but I think you know where where your head's at and how you're trying to set this up. Um, like the intro to trail running, I love because like the the longer events and you know, giving it a variety of events and the fact that there's a sequence of events, so you can start with the shorter one and then finish off with the grid at the end. I think that's so smart to scaffold the the series like that. Um it's little things like your like your first thing having good signage. Like I did a trail run back in a while in Guelph. Honestly, I got lost on the track like five different times and no idea what I was doing, and it was a 12 and a half K trail. So it wasn't nothing. Um I just didn't, yeah, I just I mean like to me it wasn't it wasn't great. And then the third piece is I almost feel like um you know racing, like big races like ATB or you know, some of these half marathons, like you know, you're kind of like corralled in and there's so many people there, but some of these smaller trail events, you you feel like you kind of like you're a guest to like a you know a party that kind of you don't know everybody sometimes. So building a community and making sure that it's like open and and welcoming because I think sometimes going to events like this, it's like you know, you're starting in a new gym, you know, and there's that like trepidation, you don't feel comfortable, right? And that's a lot of people speak to that anxiety of like um not wanting to do it. I think if you're focused in on that, which it sounds like you are, that's a smart move. Um, because if people feel comfortable, then they're going to share that with other people uh to come and enjoy it. So I think the recipe is there.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Um thank you. Yeah, no, no, no, it could be a really great test.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I'm gonna be joining you on June 6th, and I'm so excited to I'm gonna jump right into the grit and just get it going. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Well, you've been training for things, so you'll be you'll be ready to give that a bit.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

I I have been training, but um I you know it's interesting. I know I know this is your first year through it, um, and and maybe not an unfair question, but definitely a question in like the the um the kind of the pantheon of race direction as a whole in trail running. Like trail running is becoming very, very popular, ultra running, social media has given it a lift. Um the fact that everybody can film themselves in these beautiful areas in nature has given it a lift. Like, how are you focused or are are you thinking about um like how do you keep the the terrain kind of sustainable but at the same time wanting to grow a business? You know, I I I think um like you've had you've heard some things happen in different races with uh excuse me, with with that they've having to change courses because you can't have like hundreds of runners going in maybe sensitive ecological area. Like, are these things you're kind of thinking about at all?

SPEAKER_01 42:40

For sure, yeah. I mean I even think of like really simple things, like one of the things I early I learned early on in trail running is like stay on the trail, right? So if there's a big mud puddle, go through it. You know, we don't want to widen the trail more, we don't want to take up more space. You know, it feels like you know, I'm even I'm on this single track right now, and I'm looking at it, and I'm like, this is being gifted to me by everything around me. I'm but a visitor here, and I need to, you know, I need to have gratitude for the space that I can use and not take more than I need, or even that I, you know, should should take. And so, you know, I I'm definitely, you know, I I want us to have a sustainable business, of course, like like uh is important. Um but it but I think that we need to ensure that we're treading as lightly as we can while having respect for sort of you know the spaces that we're in and that we're on. So um simple things like making sure that nothing is left behind, you know, that we're packing in and packing out and and that and that we're not um engaging with the land in a way that is detrimental. And we've had to change locations of some of our races due to you know the need for trails to be rehabilitated, and you know, rattlesnake's a great example. So, you know, we were at Rattlesnake for many years and people love it, and it's beautiful. And the and the you know, the the technical challenging terrain is something that people enjoy so much, but but that land needs a break, and and that's important. And I think that what we can do is continue to make sure that we're paying attention to the land, that we're listening to the folks who are are in that space every day, and and you know, the the venue managers that move move in to that space and ensure that we're paying attention to what's going on and and making sure that our engagement with it is is is not documented.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Curious, um, you moved from rattlesnake. What which one of the five races is the new location?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

So area eight is our new location now. So we uh we started there last year and we're gonna be there again this year. Um and and uh you know moving to a new location also has its challenges and and it can be difficult for for you know now you're finding a new course and designing a new course and ensuring that the you know that the venue is functional and it's not like you know uh where you just like rinse, wash, repeat, right? So there are changes that come with that, and and that's you know, I think that growth is wonderful and and the and the chance to expose people to new locations is also great. Um but yeah, I think I do, you know, I'll I'll humbly say like there's a lot that I don't know yet, and and there's it there's a big difference to being a participant to being the the director, and there's a lot for me to learn, and you know, there's so many people who are doing such incredible things in in the trail spaces around you know taking care of it and and giving back, and and I would really like to see you know a return to some of our like trail cleanup kind of things and putting some hours at the at the venues. Um, and these are all things on my sort of like vision board, if you will, um, that I look forward to getting to after I get my feet wet this season. Um, because I think that that is is the most important thing. Like as a person who spends a lot of time in nature and on the trails, I I just I never ever ever feel an ownership. I I feel a stewardship towards it, and and I wanna I want that to come through in our events as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Nice, and I think that's a nice way to kind of close it off. Just like how you know your thinking and and um how you position yourself as as the race director and what's important to you. Uh I think um I think they're gonna be amazing, and it sounds like you've got a bright future ahead of you with uh Ontario, if not beyond. But uh what's really important because you just said earlier in the interview, and it's something we mentioned, is that uh we're you know you're we're getting going in uh in just bit about a week's time. So where can people go? Where can people sign up um uh you know to get to go run these amazing events?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, so if you just head to flyfeach.com, you've got all of our series there. You just click on Ontario and it's all the information you need is there. So our website is really comprehensive. Um, our race is uh still available, so you can still sign up for Kelso, which is on May 2nd. Um, but depending on when this gets released, you know, all of our other races will be active for registration. So Crawford Lake is in June, Area 8 is in July, which is a really special event we're doing partnered with Girls Forward, which is uh one of our charity partners. So we're actually putting on a girls and women in sport focused event that day. So it's gonna be a lot of activations, a lot of opportunities for our participants to learn about girls forward and to show up in that space as advocates and allies and celebratory uh celebratory energy for girls and women in sport. And then we're gonna be at Albion Hills in September on the long 10. And that is our crew invitational. So we're actually inviting a bunch of crews out to bring their team. Uh, of course, I'm on a climb right now as I'm telling you about this part. I should have claimed this better. I should have stayed at the bottom of the hill. Um, our uh our crew invitational is is open to people who want to bring their crews out, and we're gonna have a big athletes' village set up and hopefully create connections between crews and expose crews to new runners. Uh and then we're gonna close out the season at Heart Lake in October. And uh Carrie and I are very big Blue Jays fans, so we are hoping that the Jays are are having an October postseason and we might have some fun, have some fun at the at the race celebrating hopefully our Jays and all of our runners.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

That's that sounds amazing. And uh, if anybody followed my Instagram, they know that I slide in any Blue Jays content into my stories whenever I possibly can. I'm a massive Jays fan, and I hearken back to the days of uh of Joe Carter and the the we were so close, anyways. Uh, you know, that was another thing talking to Johnny was a Texas Rangers fan, and and he he's a big baseball fan too. And um nice it was right after the World Series had just finished and he was pulling for us, you know. Hey, that was a hard one. That was being a pitch.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

It was a hard one. Oh, it was a hard one, but um it was a hard one, it was a hard one, but uh and we're very we're we're good at res we're good, we're good at adversity, and I believe in them. They've had a rough start, but I I believe in them.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

So good win yesterday. Let's hopefully win today.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah, it was yesterday. It was a great win, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Okay, uh Lisa, this has been amazing to have you on. Listen, good luck. Uh, you get things kicked off in a week. You've got five amazing events. I'm gonna be at two of them. Uh I'm gonna be bringing some people, I'm gonna be doing some documentation, it's gonna be amazing. I'm really looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Just have a great rest of your hike. And um I'll yeah, just thanks again for for coming on, honest conversation. Really excited about the season. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Yeah, truly, thank you so much. Thanks for everything you're doing for the space and and telling important stories, and it's and I really can't wait to meet you in person.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Awesome. All right, we'll see you then. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Bye.