Running Buddies featuring Jacob Puzey pt. 1

On part 1 of my conversation with 5Peaks National Race Director Jacob Puzey, we go back to beginning. Jacob describes his rural upbringing in the American Southwest and Pacific Northwest, explaining how his background in agriculture and community shaped his values. We explore Puzey’s transition to Canada in 2015, motivated in part by his family and desire for a different environment. He reflects on his evolution as a runner, moving from a struggling middle school athlete to an elite competitor focused on personal accountability. Finally, Puzey details his preference for steady, runnable terrain, linking his physiological traits to his success in flat-surface endurance events like his treadmill world record.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

You're listening to Running Buddies brought to you by Running SkidMe, where every step has a story. I'm Jamie Roberts, and this is the podcast we like to call it Jog Tast. Whether it's your first timeout or your season pro, Running Buddies find stories that are bigger than running. And on today's show, uh we have uh Jacob Poozy. So Jacob Poozie is the national director for Five Peaks. And Five Peaks is a trail series, kind of build themselves as an intro to trail uh running series, although they do have some longer runs, and they operate in the west part of Canada and then also in Ontario. Uh so it's really good to sit down and talk with Jacob because I'm actually going to be running a couple of the events. Um one event early in June, and then another longer event. Actually, my longest event to date will be coming in in September. So uh really excited to um really excited to run those races. And what I really like about the races and something that I've kind of talked about is you know that whole like affordability piece. I want things to be um, you know, not cheap, but uh not crazy expensive that everybody can join it. And the price point for Five Peaks uh West Coast, Five Peaks Ontario, is is really quite manageable. So I think that is so good. Uh and that kind of you know leads me into the affordability flyer that we're putting out starting in June, where we will have lots of like races and uh discount codes and deals curated by us for you so that you don't need to pay the full freight because again, everything is expensive. So in the show notes there you can take a look and you can subscribe to that and get all that inside information. Uh so that is coming June 1st. Uh, we've got all the other shows, we've had a lot of exciting things happen, a bunch of exciting things happen in the future, uh, especially June, July, and August. We're gonna be busy racing, we're gonna be busy partnering with lots of great companies and brands. So check it out. Running Scare Media is just getting started, and uh let's just get started with this interview. This interview was long, and we're gonna split it off into two, I think, 45-minute sections, uh, so you can really kind of digest the essence of it. Jacob really goes into a lot of detail about his upbringing, his vision for racing, how he's seen the sport evolve. Um, very interesting introspective. So without further ado, part one with Jacob Poozy. On today's show, we're running with Jacob Poozy, a decorated runner, world record holder, Canadian champion, coach, father, and five peaks race director. Welcome to the show, Jacob. Thanks, Jamie. Happy to be here. Awesome. It it's like great to have you. We've been doing a little, you know, um scheduling, juggling, but we're we're here, so let's dive in. Um, you're out for a run today. Where are you running? Where are you?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Um I'm I'm right near my home in Radium Hot Springs in British Columbia. It's interior BC. Um really small little hamlet or village. Uh I'm running next to a creek called Sinclair Creek. And uh it's just an off-leash dog park, basically, right by my house. So when I need to have a little bit of reception uh and just get the dog out, and and when it's warm, we just do laughs around the park so that she can jump in the water and get water every time, anytime she needs.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

So yeah, that's what we're doing. We have so many conversations with uh people that are running in the Pyrenees Mountains or in the southwest. It's actually nice to talk to someone who's in Canada, although you know it's interesting, like Canada's huge. You are like, you know, I'm coming from Ontario, you're on the other side, like your five and a half hour plane ride away. Canada's huge. But uh some of the uh, you know, just the space, right? If you could kind of paint a bit of a picture, because some of the things you post, it's absolutely beautiful where you live. Um it's is it close to Revelstoke? Because I know you uh you do some some work around there. Are you kind of in that area?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, um I it's not I'm kind of in between like Banff and Revelstoke. I guess that's probably a good good description. So I'm in in between the the Rockies and the Kootenies and the Selkirks and the and the Monishies. Um, but oh man, Western Canada, all of Canada is is beautiful. But um where I'm at in interior BC is like it's high desert. Like I'm um I'm I'm running by some gudos right now, and so it's just it's really dry, but um there's a lot of water around here in the Sinclair Creek, and I'm actually right by the headwaters of the Columbia River, which runs through Rebel Stoke and then runs through uh British Columbia and then the state of Washington, the state of Oregon, out to the Pacific Ocean. South.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I'm curious. Um what's the what's the terrain like underfoot? Is it is it soft? Like you said, it's hard, is it dry? Does it is there a lot of variation in terms of if you're on single track or if you're on big kind of like what what if I'm you know, road running is roadrunning, but if I want to get out and maybe hit a trail, maybe you can share like a well-known trail that would be really great to get out there. What am I going to experience?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Um honestly, like I I I come from more of a a road and or dirt road background. And so um there's a lot of that around here. There's a lot of it's a very rural place, so there's a lot of dirt roads. I'm on a it's a I would say it's I wouldn't call it double track, but it's a wide enough um manicured path um in this little park that's uh it's like five minutes from town. And uh and so I'm just doing loops there, but I was running on just some beautiful mountain biking trails last night, which I often run on from my house. And and yeah, they're just on these bluffs that tower over the Columbia River, which uh in this part of the world looks like a meandering stream, it's like a trickle, and then when it gets when it starts hitting the dams and it's just a series of reservoirs, it's it's like more than a kilometer across in some parts. So yeah, it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, no, it's it's yeah. I my uh my uncle lived out in Vancouver. Uh, and I took a um I've only been out to Western Canada once, and I went out there when I was 15. And you know, like I grew up in the mean streets of Toronto, right? Like the city, like concrete jungle. I've I've been a city kid my whole life. And I went out there and you just you fly in in the mountains. It's like it was eye-opening. Spent some time in Whistler and Blackholm and even just Grouse and how close it was to like how close you could get into some really wild terrain was amazing. So I think actually, when I think about it, you know, that's maybe was my first little thing into like running and adventure and doing all those kind of things. But no, it is it is beautiful. I'm I'm wondering, uh, you're a busy guy. How much are you getting out to run these days? You said you were running last night, out for a run today. Is this I know you got the kids, and is it is it daily? Is it like whenever you can fit it in?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Um I I try to move as often as I can. Um, but there are days, you know, I'm I'm in Western Canada. I'm in I'm in BC, but I'm still nine hours from Vancouver. And so, like, if I if I need to, and I'm three plus hours from from Calgary and six hours from Edmonton. And like you said, I'm a I'm a five-hour flight to Toronto, but but I it's a three-hour drive to get to an airport to get me to Toronto, you know, minimum. So I would be really in like yeah, isolated. I'm 90 minutes from the closest like Home Depot or Walmart, like or even like bank, like none of my banks are even around here, so which is awesome. Like I uh most days I I see it's and interact with more bighorn sheep than people, and that's my preference. Um, but uh so I get go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

No, sorry, sorry, finish up, finish.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, so I get to interact with people at the events, and then most of what I do is just behind a a laptop, and then you know, I've got my my kids are going to school, so pick up a drop off and see other parents and that kind of thing. And so I was out running with a guy that that's a friend, but is also also helps me with the event out in Revel Stoke. And um he works for Parks Canada out here. Like I'm I'm sandwiched in between like Kooteny National Park and Banff National Park, so it's like it's not an ugly place to live, it's just it's a lot less expensive and a lot more less populated than than like Banff or Vancouver. So yeah, it's a good, it's a good spot.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I'm curious, like take like take me back to the beginning, you know, in terms of how you grew up in your childhood. And and I would say like I have a friend who who grew up in a very kind of rural environment, came to the city, and now is spending like their life out in Haidua. So they they kind of wanted to take it back to uh their childhood, what they knew, what they what they grew to love. What was your uh upbringing like? Was it I I think it was rural, but was it as rural as you are now? Or like take us kind of back to the beginning of the story.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, I mean, where I'm now, I I I'm gonna run, I'm gonna probably run by a a wood mill. Um, so I mean I'm in logging country, um, where they're they're they're cutting trees around here and then they're they're turning them into plywood and putting them on trains and semis and stuff. And that's that's five minutes from my house. And uh and uh so I mean it's it's a pretty forested area, but this area was and still is like a logging and a mining area, like there's minerals. Um so I was I I did grow up in in rural places uh my whole life, um, but it was more agriculture. It was more uh like I was born on a farm actually in the Four Corners area of the United States, south southwestern United States. Um and then we just went wherever my dad could find work. He was managing a farm there, and then got into ethanol trying to turn convert corn to fuel. Um uh and then got into economic development, but like through like through peanut sales down in New Mexico, and then we ended up in in northeastern Oregon on the Columbia River, where he still manages a port um on the on the Columbia River, but like their main export is wheat, and so I've just I've I've been uh in and around agriculture my whole life and um so yeah, small towns, but also a big sense of community. And uh I've lived in bigger places. I uh I traveled and lived uh I lived in Panama City for a bit. I I've lived uh in Calgary and I I don't mind those places. Like there are certainly some conveniences to it, but um I don't know. I just I I I wanted my kids to have the opportunity to like just just be outside and play outside and explore and uh and not not have to worry about staying within the confines of like the tiny little plot of land that I could put a fence around, you know? And so so my kids come down here where I'm at and sometimes they're bears and cougars and they're always sheep and deer. But I like that's that's rule number one. Like when they come home from school, it's like it's sunny outside, we're going outside until the sun goes down, like grab your backpacks, throw some snacks and a water bottle in it, and let's go down to the creek and let's swim, let's make sure the dog gets a walk and um just go. I mean, my my my seven-year-old son can point out like bark on trees and be like, you know, you can make medicine out of this, dad, or can we stay down here and build a fire? And I don't know, it's just cool that that's the way they get to grow up. And it's it's closer to how I grew up than I mean, like I said, it wasn't as mountainous where I grew up, but I definitely grew up around a lot of wildlife and and just the ability to explore where the only confines were like this is a major highway over here, and this is a major highway over here. But but everything in this like five kilometer radius when you're an eight-year-old, it's a pretty big playground to just explore, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

And it's almost like, was it I don't want to say transient because that has like kind of like a negative connotation, but it seems like you moved around a lot. I I'm I'm curious, like what lessons, what did you take from that as a child that you kind of you you kind of have today, and then maybe even can uh you know school your own children? Is it resilience? It was patience, um, family. Like, you know, I think I have the complete opposite. I was in one space the whole time with my family, and and I take some things from that, but I had other friends that moved around a lot. You know, they'd come in for two years and then they were on their way, and then I might see them a couple years later when they moved around. So is there anything you kind of pull from that period?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Um, I mean, I I do think it is there are good people everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

And there are also um I would say cultural idiosyncrasies everywhere you go. Um and and it I think it's important to like see the value and see the good and and learn from everyone you can. But also, I mean I I I experienced quite a bit of current culture shock just moving from the southwestern United States to the um to the Pacific Northwest. Um there were there were Hispanics in both places, but in New Mexico, that was that was Mexico before it was part of the US. And so like so those people had been there for generations, whereas in the Pacific Northwest, it was a relatively recent phenomenon that the the Hispanic population were mostly migrant workers, and and they weren't, even though they were vital for the economy there, and like the entire community depended on them being there and doing providing an essential service, there was definitely still some like division and racism. And and I I had never experienced that because I was actually probably more of a minority in my neighborhood where I grew up uh in New Mexico, uh as like the the the single Anglo family versus uh when I moved to to Oregon, it was even though there's probably 40 to 60 percent, depending on neighborhood, uh Hispanics in the in the part uh town where where my parents live, it's just uh it was a different, it was usually first or second generation. So it was it was kind of the first time I had this isn't to call out that community, but it was the first time I'd encountered racism in my life, uh, where people were pointing things out about other people that I was just like like I I had a friend like first week of school like asking me why I was talking to a girl on the playground. I was like, uh, because she's nice and she's pretty. And the guy was like, well, we don't talk to them. And I was like, all right, that's cool, less competition for me, but like, why don't we talk to them, you know? And um it was it was a it was a tough thing to experience as like a 12-year-old, you know, to realize that. But it uh it also helped me uh with my own kids and trying to help them understand that they're they're really incredible people of of all races and ethnicities and from different backgrounds. And um that's one thing that I do love about even the town that I live in. Like um it was spring break and um my kids had had already been kind of overstimulated the first week and and they just wanted to chill and I was like, that's cool because I gotta catch up on work and and then they did the they did the whole like old school go outside and uh go knock on a friend's door and rather than having parents set up the playdates and and then I'd be like, hey, who are you gonna play with? Who are you going to see? And when they told me, like, they were going to play with their friends down the street from Morocco. And I mean their their mom wears a hijab, you know, like they're very different culturally than who we are, but there was like nothing in their minds that was like, we just want to go play with our friends, like it doesn't matter what they look like or the accents or the food that they're eating, it's like they're just our friends and they live down the street and we're bored sitting around the house, you know. So we're just going to have an adventure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, there's there's a lot there, man. The whole uh the whole you know, plate eight, getting your kids and all, you know, all that stuff is like definitely real. And I I do that. But it it's it's interesting when you talk about like um diversity. I'm not I'm not saying that uh, you know, just something not really has to do with running, but growing up in Canada, I'm not saying that there isn't racism here or there isn't racist people, or there isn't, you know, um areas where it's a monolith and areas where it's more diverse. But it's funny how like you're you're talking about um, you know, you're playing with someone because it's a girl or whatever. Like we're where we really are racist, especially in the Toronto area, but even more into like the rural areas, there's our area, there's so much immigration that's happened in Canada. You know, absolutely since like since the 30s and 40s. Well, there's been different, you know, it's like cyclical, right? But there's just that is something that um uh that is something that we kind of just grown up with. And I notice it, you know, I notice it more when I go um to other places, right? Other countries where you kind of I always say to my friends, because I I do a little bit of traveling around and I always talk about in some spaces I go to, it feels like there are parallel worlds happening at the same time where there's no interactions between ever with between these two parallel worlds. They're just sort of coexisting, but not co like not integrating. And uh that's a foreign thing to me up here. Uh yeah, just it really is. Like it, you know, just how uh how I've raised my friend group. Yeah, I don't know, just all those things. But anyways, um I digress, but it's it's something it's something interesting to kind of to pick out. And I and I I want to kind of talk about um, you know, you you just deciding to to live in Canada and to be here, but I want to know like where did the running piece start for you? Because you know, you're moving around to all these towns and you've got all these different like amazing outdoor spaces where you can that where you can kind of investigate and explore. What when when did running come in? How did you find that or how did it find you?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah. Um, I mean, kind of how I mentioned as a kid, we lived in a small town and we we had a similar role rule that my mom my mom had a similar rule. Uh it was a big family and um it was the desert and it would it would get dirty and we would get dirty. And so, like, usually if my kids want to come inside, it's like you got to take a bath before you can come inside, and then you're inside for the rest of the day. So we're gonna go out and play hard and get dirty, and then you're gonna wash you're gonna wash public school off of you when you get in here, and then you're also gonna wash all the dirt and grime and everything else. Um so that's a that's it wasn't formal, it was it was very informal. It was just I just ran around a lot on as a kid. I was either on on my little BMX bike or on a skateboard or roller skates or rollerblades or or just running around. And so I did that my whole life. And uh I I mean, I I caught myself. My son said he wanted to run back from the creek barefoot the other day. And I was like, no, please put your crocs on, your feet are gonna get dirty. And I was like, dude, that was me, like my whole childhood. What am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

And uh so um, yeah, I ran around a lot. I I loved basketball. I don't know how or why, but like I I think I bought a VHS called the history of the NBA at Kmart as a kid. It was like five bucks, and I like had that thing memorized, and I was just obsessed with basketball and just wanted to be a really good basketball player, but I was very short and very skinny, and so the best I ever was was like fifth or sixth man on a team, and and I figured the only way that I could make the high school team is if I just had better endurance and stamina. And so I went out for cross country in in middle school and then in high school, and uh it wasn't something that came naturally to me. Like I it took me the entire middle school season uh of practicing every single day after school to finally be able to complete the the 3K cross-country race without stopping and walking. And so like it wasn't like I was a natural or anything like that that I knew was had some metronomic pacing already built in or something. Uh it was actually very much sprint, die, catch your breath, sprint, die, catch your breath. And uh so it was more of a part click, was how I used to race across country. Um, and I but I don't know, somehow over time uh I just kind of fell in love with the consistency of it. And uh and I ran in the mornings before school and high school um during basketball season. So I had basketball practice after school and would just run during the winter with with one of my friends who was on the wrestling team. And neither of us was we were like the number 13 and 14 on the JV junior varsity cross country team. We were like these elite athletes. We were like, we just don't want to suck when track season starts. So we went and we just ran every morning at 5 a.m. in the dark. And then he'd go to school and wrestle after school, and I'd go to school and play basketball after school. And then track season came around, and like a lot of my friends who who I ran across country with didn't run during the winter or play basketball. And then all of a sudden I was like, I was like 10 spots ahead by the by the end of track season. And it was like, how did that happen? And I mean, puberty probably played a little bit of a role, but I I think the biggest thing was I I just got better because I didn't get slower. And and then I could build on the base that I just kind of continued doing. And by the next cross-country season, I was I was the top guy on a really bad team. But it was sort of like, oh shit, this is kind of fun. And I that like it it it was it was just a fun way to um experience um sport and also um unlike basketball, where the outcome often depended on factors outside myself, like teammates, refs, coaches, other team, whatever. It was like with running, it was like it all it all fell to me. Like I I was fully responsible for the training I put in. There, I couldn't blame it on anyone. I couldn't blame it on my coach for putting me in or taking me out or anything. It was like it all fell to me, and I just really loved that that personal accountability that came with running. And yeah, it it it still took me probably like two decades of running to to kind of fully appreciate what it what it was for me. But yeah, it was it was something that took several years for me to even begin to think that I might actually be kind of good at it or have the potential to be good at it.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

You said something really interesting, answer, and it's it's it's a great answer, but you talked about like really quickly, you just went over um, you know, in middle school with 5 a.m. wake ups, and I'm thinking, 5 a.m. wakeups? Middle school? Like I'm I'm a teacher, right? So I've taught I've taught grade eight for 10 years. I I know what middle schoolers are like. And to have that kind of discipline, that intrinsic motivation, is that something you got? Is it has that always been there for you, Jacob? Is that something you got from your your parents? Is that something that's grown over time? Because I know you talked about you know having some issues at school and then becoming a model student. Did this all kind of coalesce? Even that discipline piece that because that's something they were constantly trying to unlock in the students and even in my own kids.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, I mean, I I I think today's my mom's birthday, and it's also Earth Day. So whenever this airs, it's a it's my mom's birthday. Um, I would say both of my parents are are very disciplined people. Okay. And they they definitely tried to raise us with uh I would say impossible standards uh most of the time, but uh but they were they had very high standards for us in terms of like what we how we were expected to behave, um privately and publicly. And um we we had been waking up early, you know, my because my dad worked on farms or at ethanol plants or whatever else he was doing, yeah, or he had to travel for work a lot. Um he was up early. Um my mom was a graphic artist and stuff, so she would often like work at night after we'd all go to bed. They're very different sleep cycles, but they're both very, just very intense people. Um and and we would actually wake up early to read the Bible as a family, like from the time I was a little kid, so very strict. And so it was also just sort of like I was already gonna be up anyway, and it kind of gave me an excuse to sneak out of a Bible study in the mornings. It's like, all right, cool, I'll read my verse and then I'm out and I'm gonna go for a run. And uh I was able to do that. Uh but it also does come with the community, like there is something I think very unique about the law of the harvest, and just there is a lot of belief that people put into planting a seed and nourishing a seed and seeing it uh come come to fruition, you know. Like, uh, and so there that's definitely something that has been ingrained in me from the time I was a very young kid. Um, but it wasn't just me. Like my teammate was two years older than me and he kind of took me under his wing. And he was a really good wrestler. And so, in a lot of ways, I feel like our our cross-country team in high school didn't get good until we started incorporating some of the discipline that the that the wrestling team had. Because yeah, we had a really good wrestling program. And it, I mean, it's like world-class, like um both wrestlers, but like world champion, rodeo champions, like steer wrestlers. Oh it's like cool, we're gonna we're gonna wrestle people during the winter, but then during the summer, we're gonna get on the rodeo circuit and wrestle, wrestle steers. So I don't know. I mean, it's as it's about as as redneck as you can come where I grew up, but it but also very, very disciplined and very proud of that discipline.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

So it's I I'm wondering, is faith still central in your life now? Is that something that is part of your family and what you're just what you're um uh you sort of transfer into your children, or have you gotten away from that?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Um I we I don't I don't practice uh like a an organized religion per se. Like I I still have like verses of scripture from multiple religions that are like ingrained in my heart and in my mind, and I still hear and hum the hymns that I grew up with as a kid. Um I I think I I I don't judge anyone for any of their choices, but I think in a lot of ways organized religion is responsible for uh a lot of the conflict in the world. And so I I I try to um encourage my kids to actually practice what what those books and like the principles of those, whether they're Western religions or eastern religions or whatever, or or indigenous traditions, like that's where I've found my greatest uh solace and my greatest source of connection to the earth and to my fellow man. And so that's that's what I try to do with my kids is teach them to love one another and teach them to love the earth and uh and be good stewards of it.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

So speaking of the earth, um I'm curious in this whole story, uh, when does the migration to Canada happen? And and how does how does that all come to fruition? Was that a trip up there where you fell in love with the country? Is that you know how how does that happen? Because it sounds like you know, you saw a lot of a lot of beautiful parts of the United States and and and you you you curated a lot of values and great memories. How does that story take us to Canada?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah, good question. Um I I was invited up to Canada to to run a race um in Canmore, Alberta, actually. Um and and it was as a result of running well at a at a big race in the in the US. Um so the race director invited me up and I'd never I'd never been beyond the border. Like I think I'd been like I'd run a Ragnar relay that started on the the border, the Canada, uh Canada US border, um, and then ran like through the state of Washington and stuff, but um I hadn't actually been in Canada, and so I came up and just fell in love and uh honestly just kept coming back. And I was at a transition point in my life. I was going through a divorce. Um I was going, I was trying to figure out how to how to take my two master's degrees in liberal arts and actually like you know provide a viable living for my kids. Um uh at the time it looked like I was just gonna continue to be like the sole provider and and uh have sole custody. That was the that's where the discussions were at that time. And so it was like, okay, I gotta I gotta find a way to do this. And I was I was living in a mountain town at the time, uh finishing up my grad school in uh linguistic anthropology. And so I was like, okay, unless I stay in academic, this isn't a viable path.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

And at the time, I was uh I was coaching online and I was I was making more money than most of my professors were as an online running coach while I was working as their grad assistant and uh uh and teaching undergrad classes. And so I loved the subject matter, but again, I needed to find a way to provide for my family, and so I just went to coaching online full-time and um yeah, just went from there, just and ended up moving here and uh putting down roots and um trying to create a safe and stable home for my my kids.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

And then yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I'm just curious, you know, it like you you said, right? You're you know trying to find a uh a viable option uh to provide for your family, but I I can see you're someone who's disciplined, motivated, and and the coaching was was was working out at that point. Does that take us to 2016 and the treadmill uh world record? And and even beyond that, Jacob, like diving into running as more of like your core, your your core piece as as a as a person. Like you're gonna do it, you're gonna get very good at it, you're gonna monetize it, like and it becomes everything that you're doing. Is is is that kind of Canada, and then um the coaching, and then we come into the the world record.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, yeah. I um, you know, I uh exactly there there were certainly advantages. Like I could see the um I could see the way that politics were shifting. And I I had before I had gone back to grad school, I was working as an educator, secondary education mostly, um middle and high school. Um uh it was when a lot of really what at the time seemed um regressive and still are, but regressive and just draconian immigration laws were getting passed. And I was primarily teaching ESL or language arts and and and social studies in Spanish to to second language learners and in my same town that I grew up in in Oregon. And um the one of the main reasons I got I I did that was uh I was passionate about my community, but I also needed healthcare for my kids and and for my wife at the time. And in the US with a bachelor's degree in international cultural studies, um, there's not a whole lot that you can do and get like platinum healthcare, and that's what I needed. And so um there were just a lot of health issues that I couldn't pay for out of pocket. And so uh anyway, that that led to eventually like, hey, um when I went back to grad school, I was like, okay, it looks like a lot of the health scares are gone, and so I can go back to grad school and maybe take a little riskier approach and not have platinum healthcare. And um it uh you know, there there were some there were some pluses, but yeah, politically things were not going the way I wanted, and they it didn't feel like a safe place for my kids to be. Um my two older kids are like Latino and um that wasn't didn't feel safe for me or for them, and um I wanted to get out. Uh and um yeah, it uh that led me to Canada and it uh well not not just for the healthcare. It actually felt like I was cheating because when I went and took the English proficiency exam to like to immigrate here, it was like, dude, I used to teach people how to do this, and I mean they're with a bunch of no, I mean it was really it felt like the deck was stacked against them. It's like this isn't even fair. Like I know the exact questions, I know the I know the the the canned responses they're looking for, I know, I know the conjugations that they're looking for, and then I've got you know, probably very educated people, but where they're coming from Syria and Sudan, and and I'm in line with them, and I was like, man, this isn't even fair. But uh I'm lucky and I got in and uh really grateful that I'm able to uh do life here and that my kids have good health care.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

So we're happy to have you, you know. It's great, it's yeah, I'm happy to pay my taxes. Yeah, of course. Well, that you know what? Then I'm glad you're happy to do that and like doing it because uh for anybody listening out there, we have high taxes here and there's no way to get around it. But you know what? Uh just on a side note, I'm always um yeah, and even just with running scared, right? Like, you know, we have people in the organization down in uh down in the States. In fact, most of the team is down there, and I'm always amazed by when I when I talk to Americans and they they tell me, oh, the healthcare app in Canada is not good. And I and I just I've never had a problem my entire life, and I've had broken bones, and I had to go into the hospital for anything. When we're sick, we just go, and that's kind of it. Like I don't yeah, I don't know any other way to say it. You know, sometimes you may need to wait a little bit, but this is just from like you know, 46-year-old guy uh with two kids living in uh Canada. It's it's great. I don't know what to say, you know? Yeah, but we pay for it through our taxes, which are high. So that is um that is something. But uh yeah. Um, so what what I'm just curious, what year was that?

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Um I moved up in 2015. 2015. Honestly, right before the uh uh without getting too political, right before the first uh Trump uh regime. And uh yeah, that was a scary time for my family. And uh it's still a scary time for my family.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

So we're glad you're here. And so 2015. So 2016, uh, we got the world record, and then you've got the amazing performance at Boston, you know, the first Canadian with an with a really fantastic time. And you've talked about you know, just to kind of take it to running for a minute, you've talked about uh races that can kind of get you into a groove, into like a kind of like a steady role. Um, and that was like the treadmill world record and then Boston. Like have you always been kind of more predisposed or or prefer kind of road racing rather than trail? Or has it kind of has it changed throughout the years where you have a more of a preference for other ones? And then also is it conducive in trail running? I've done a little bit, a fair amount, you know, to get into those to get into those grooves. Um when you're going, you know, max elevations and then you're going downhill and then you're going through, you know, different kinds of terrain. I'm I'm I'm just curious maybe where you feel most comfortable in the running space, what you like, what you prefer the most.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Yeah, I mean, I I definitely feel uh like I'm I'm genetically predisposed and and I would say environmentally predisposed to like just feel more comfortable on on slightly rolling or flat terrain. Um and that's mostly just because that's that's what most of where I've grown up has been. I I honestly thought that by moving to the mountains, I'd somehow just my lungs would expand and my uh capacity to climb would increase. And I think the only thing that's really helped is learning that it's okay to use hiking poles. But um I I'm still not a good climber at all. And um despite you know, learning when I was studying exercise science in in university, like and being like one of my professor's lab rats, I apparently have like you know really good numbers in terms of like VO2 max and and lactate threshold. But at the same time, like I actually, unlike a lot of people, the the buffering really is non-existent for me. It's like if I spike above my VO2 max, it's game over. Like I my body doesn't recover metabolically, my heart rate just doesn't ever come back, and and I'll go from feeling amazing to just really blowing up. And so it's actually informed a lot of like my nutrition, whether or not I should use caffeine or when I use it, um, but also whether or not to to hike a hill or or surge a hill or or you know go above my lactic threshold at certain points in the race. And so it's kind of like I said, it's sort of helped direct me toward runnable terrain. Like the the it sounds ridiculous, but the that 50 miles on the treadmill might have been like the easiest run I've ever run in my life because it was just like, and I know that sounds, I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but it was just like that was just like I was right in my wheelhouse and everything was clicking, and I didn't have to think about anything other than just like just put one foot in front of the other and get it done. And that's just kind of how I grew up was just like just just block every put the blinders on, block everything out, and just grind it out, and as long as you're fueling and you're not doing anything stupid. Yeah, I it was it was a few.