Proven Not Perfect
Proven Not Perfect
Selling Has Changed: Here’s How To Win Now
Your buyer doesn’t need a lecture on features. They need a partner who can make sense of complexity and map it to outcomes that matter. That’s the throughline of our conversation with Denise, a veteran deal maker who’s led enterprise sales, built her own consultancy, and now coaches leaders to sell with clarity, credibility, and care.
We start by interrogating the timeless playbook—persistence, product knowledge, relationships—and how each one transformed after COVID. Denise explains why education no longer differentiates when every stakeholder has done the homework, and how the edge now comes from active listening and root‑cause discovery. Instead of pitching “what it does,” we dig into “why this solves the real problem,” and we show how to frame risks, trade‑offs, and value without fluff. Along the way, we unpack practical ways to deepen relationships on Zoom, use social media with purpose, and replace swag with substance.
Technology gets a frank audit. AI can draft outreach, summarize calls, and surface account patterns, but the win is using it to remove busywork and redirect energy to human skills—judgment, empathy, negotiation. Denise lays out guardrails for keeping your voice while scaling your workflow, and she shares simple coaching metrics like talk ratio and question depth that elevate every meeting. The human story anchors it all. Denise reflects on a late‑started healing journey that sharpened her empathy and intent, and we examine how inner work turns into outer performance. When you know your why, you stop seeking approval and start creating value.
We close with three concrete moves for modern sellers: adopt technology with intent, make every interaction about the buyer, and stay authentic by anchoring on purpose. If you want to sell beyond features, build trust faster, and make your buyer the hero, this conversation gives you a clear path forward. Enjoy the episode, then subscribe, share with a teammate, and leave a review to tell us the discovery question you’ll try next.
Drive, Ambition, Doing, Leading, Creating... all good until we forget about our own self-care. This Village of All-Stars pays it forward with transparency about misses and celebration in winning. We cover many topics and keep it 100. We are Proven Not Perfect™️
https://www.provennotperfect.com
Follow me on Instagram at: shontrapowell_provennotperfect
Follow me on Facebook at: Proven Not Perfect™️
Watch and listen on YouTube: Proven Not Perfect™️
Join the community for ideas and events at www.provennotperfect.com.
I'd love to hear what you think!
Denise. Hi. It's a pleasure to have you on Proven Not Perfect Community. And I really don't want to race the drip. I want to get right into it. So, Denise, tell me as you have grown in the career functionally in sales, first and foremost, you're the first person with a functional skill set in selling, right? Which I believe is probably one of the hardest professions that there is. Um, and I'll tell you why I think that. You're one of the first people that's really going to help unpack with me what makes a good salesperson a good salesperson. That's what I want to talk about. What makes a good salesperson a good salesperson? And you're qualified to talk about this because you've been taking names and kicking butt in sales for a whole lot of years in industry. So tell us a little bit about your background in sales.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I've spent over 30 years in sales, closing large multimillion dollar deals, working with Fortune 500 and 100 companies. I have done everything from being a card carrying sales rep to now owning my own business and all the journey through that. My business now is really focused on fractional sales, coaching, consulting. So I do leadership, consulting, coaching, and as well have opportunities to speak even in moments like this on a podcast. So it's really about sharing the story and how we become even go from good to great salespeople.
SPEAKER_01:That's right on. So we got to unpack something. So when I think about sales, peer-peer sales, going all the way back. I can I can remember when I had my first sales-ish role, right? I'm a finance person, went into strategy and PL leadership, but I have had the privilege to lead sales organizations as well. Let me ask you this: Dale Carnegie was like one of those names way back, right? Stephen Covey, you know, they're they're just those names that we think of that talk about the rudimentary basics of selling, right? Speed of trust, right? We can keep going. Were any of those influential on you? And do you still think they're relevant today?
SPEAKER_00:So I would say the short answer is yes. They were impactful for me. And yes, they are still relevant in some function of sorts. And I say that because the basics, the ground work that we or the ground characteristics, the abilities, those are still in existence. And each one of those different thought leaders have all shared them in their own ways, right? So I, as a product of who I am, is I've taken the challenger methodology, the selling de veto. I mean, there are a ton of others, right? I've incorporated them into the bits and pieces that work for me. And I've included, I mean, there's so many. There's a million of them. I mean, you could look at them. I've got them up there, right? So it was really just about taking a little bit of everything and making it your own. But I think the difference today is that we're in this world where we have new technologies, we have AI, we have automation solutions. And by the way, we went from being crazy busy and then the pandemic hit, and now we're all we were all sequestered to our desks and isolated in our homes. That also changed us as individuals, how we engage, what we look for in that engagement with someone. So I think that while they are relevant, meaning there are bits and pieces that we can still take and leverage within the core basics of sales, we they're not completely relevant overall because we've got so many new nuances in our world today that we have to learn to adapt to and then also incorporate in how we sell. So that is awesome.
SPEAKER_01:And that's exactly where I hoped you'd go. To me, there's this great divide in just about everything that we think about in business, right? There's sort of pre-COVID, COVID, post-COVID, and now we're getting into some other uh wonderful areas of change and dynamics. But my question is okay, what are the three things that made a great salesperson great pre-COVID? And then which of those three things have become something different post-COVID? What do you think? What are the three?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I think the three things that made someone great as a made a great salesperson before COVID was persistence. Persistence, yep. I think just being knowledgeable of what you were selling. Knowledgeable. And I think as well, probably just having a great personality, being able to build relationships, right? Relationships, all right. So which of those things are sh have shifted since COVID? I think we have to be knowledgeable, right? So I'm gonna go through a couple of those just separately. I think we have to be knowledgeable still today, but I will tell you that we don't have to educate any longer. Our buyers are smart today, right? Before they were going 90 to nothing, leaving their desk, going from meeting to meeting to meeting, barely checking email, not even ever having time to actually look at the internet. Today we sit in front of our desks. We very to physically go to a different meeting. We can sit in a meeting on Zoom and still play on our laptop. We are more educated than we've ever been with the amount of information that we have available to us. So we don't need sales big one.
SPEAKER_01:That Denise is a big one, right? We don't need salespeople to educate us anymore. So if you are trapped, locked into um a features and benefits sales philosophy, right? Then I really believe, I think you are starting to miss the boat as we neared 2020, just saying, because it was supposed to be a solution. But for sure, post-2020, if you are still talking about features and benefits and not talking about do it for me, fit it for me, make it make sense for me, I think you've miss the boat. Do you agree with that?
SPEAKER_00:100%. And the only way we can do that, get to that point where we're actually getting beyond feature and function and selling to a problem, is we actually have to have different conversations, which is where relationship before is very different than it was today. But let's talk about that relationship pre and relationship now. Before it really was just about how do you say you go in bubbly and how do you build trust and credibility really fast because you've and you do that because you've shared all this information with them, right? So now you've built trust and credibility. Now they don't need us to educate them. So now it's more about how do we really build relationship? It's not about being a great person and a good, fun individual and being bubbly and and messaging. It's really now how do you add credibility when you can't educate them anymore? So your relationship levels have to be deeper. They have to be a bit more understanding amongst the two, the buyer and the seller. And the only way to do that is to start engaging in really good conversation. You have to be curious and you have to actively listen so that you can really get to that probable root cause. Before we would sell to systemic problems, and that was okay. Today we have to sell to probable root cause problems.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, seriously, right? So that is that's you really getting to the core of why for your potential customer or customer, getting to the core of why, and not always just stopping at the why based on the business as you see it, but even going further back. Now, we live in a world of Zoom, right? We live in a world where some customers have taken their number of calls, sales calls, and crushed them, right? Now, how does a really good sales professional take advantage of new modes of contact to go deep, deeper in those relationships? Oh, by the way, a lot of companies are saying ix nay the golf, right? Not not so much anymore, right? And so how do how give give some maybe practical ideas for how some of the sales folks who've been around for a long time, who are learning how to leverage social media, who are learning how to leverage additional tools like AI, who are learning how to feel confident in this new version of a salesperson going deep and adding value in an engaging relationship.
SPEAKER_00:I think really the only way we can do that, all of those different components that you mentioned effectively is when we make it about them and not at all about us. I think when we do that, when we make it about them, we our social media, how we sell on social media will change, how we engage with them on Zoom will change. It is about really making it about them understanding what they want. When you ask questions, it they will realize that you want to partner with them, that you are curious and want to hear some of the challenges that they're being faced with. And only then will they give you the opportunity to share with them how you might could actually help solve some of those problems, right? It is about making it about them and not at all about you. All right.
SPEAKER_01:So now I want to go back and understand Denise, who has been incredibly successful as a professional, as a little girl. And I'd love to understand did you always see yourself moving into a role of sales professional? Did you always see yourself with certain skills that would position you in business in the way that it has? Or did you have to push past some things? I'd I'd love to quite frankly share a little bit with the community, you know, what made you who you are today? You know, maybe, maybe there's some elements that other people can relate with that maybe gave up on themselves, not realizing that it can be the push that gets them to where you are.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks. That's a really tough question. Not because it's hard to answer, but just because that is there's a lot of different directions I could go. I will tell you this. I mean, not most of us who are in sales, I don't know that we ever aspired necessarily to be salespeople. In fact, I was a music education major, not anywhere near sales, right? I also, as a kid, was very different than I am today. I am a much more confident today than I've ever been. I can tell you what I exactly what I think, but I do it with uh coming from kindness. So the way I do it maybe is not quite as crass or abrasive, but it took me a long time to get to this point. And that was because for me, I went through a lot of challenges as a kid. I mean, we don't have to spend a whole lot of time unpacking that, but but I will tell you that that having had childhood trauma, I walked out of that and and started to figure out who I was. And by the way, that was a long, long, long journey. I mean, I just started that journey at 50 and I'm only turning 53 next month. So it was a very long process. But as I went through that journey, what I uncovered were bits and pieces of myself that that really helped drive where I am today from a sales profession, which means I realized how important it was to build a relationship, which by the way, you can do that in any. Let's be clear.
SPEAKER_01:Anyone listening to this podcast, there's not a time. I don't care what you're doing, you're always selling.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, go ahead. Always. You're selling a project, an idea, a success that you've had, anything. But but nonetheless, it is really about I wanted to find ways to continue to build relationships, show people that selling could be done in a different way because it is more than just making money. It is more than just selling a solution, it's helping people solve problems. And quite honestly, I thrive in this space. And it took me a long time to realize because I needed someone to solve problems for me, and I didn't have that person as a kid. And it once I realized what that was or what was driving me, it enabled me to really open up more opportunities within myself to share more of my gifts, to be stronger and bolder in my experiences and my successes, and to be able to just stand before people today, whether in a one-to-one session or on a stage or sessions like this, and share not just my story, but the reasons for why we should be better versions of ourselves today. Whether you're in sales or not, we should be better versions of ourselves, making it less about us and more about them.
SPEAKER_01:Denise, I love everything that you said. Thank you so much for being quite frankly so heart-led in that answer. Here, here is something that really comes up as I think about what you're saying. First and foremost, sales is something that that regardless of what your title is, you need it. But the next piece is there's an element of who we were in the beginning that positions us to truly understand and take to heart what service of another means. Either you had it happen beautifully for you, so you know how to do it beautifully, or you had a huge gap in how it was done for you, and you said, I'm gonna take ownership for making sure that no one ever has to deal with that kind of gap. Honestly, sociologically, what you're bringing forward to me is just some nuances. I truly believe that anyone can learn sales. I do believe that. However, I'm gonna say something, it might be controversial. Anyone can learn it, anyone can learn to play the guitar, anyone can learn to play the piano, anyone can learn to paint. There are only a few folks that are great at it. And I believe that could be controversial, but I'm just gonna say it. I believe it. And what you just shared gave me a different seeing, which is what makes the great great often is our foundational experiences that contribute to being great at that thing. Either it happens so vividly and beautifully for you that you have a standard that you can't see past when you're doing it, or there was a gap, and you said, This is when I know I cannot proliferate this. I will do different, I will serve more.
SPEAKER_00:Girl, why well, and I think too, that really comes with us being honest with ourselves and really wanting to find answers. What makes us great? How can we get better, right? And that has to be an evolution that we go through, a transformation, a journey, whatever you want to call it, that we have to choose on our own to go through. And once we do that, I always say that if you don't take care of your baggage, it's gonna come back to bite you in the and it will show up in your profession and in your personal world, right? Your professional world and your personal world if you don't take care of it. But when you start to take care of it, you really do truly understand where your value is, where your strengths are, what you want to improve on. And it enables you then to give back to the world what you have been given yourself. It allows you to express your gifts and share because we all have a gift and it's our job. We are put here on this earth to share our gifts. We are learners, we are, we are nurturers, we want to hear and listen and see and continue to grow. And we can only be a part of that community if we're also giving what we've learned so that we can foster that growth.
SPEAKER_01:On that note, I'm just gonna say that was awesome. I think anyone listening will receive so much goodness just in that piece of it. Before we say goodbye, three things going into the future that someone who is trying to hone their skills and sales, right? Three things that they need to put on their mind and think about how to tackle or how to get really good at so that they can continue to be great or be on the journey to being great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so three things. So I would say one is you gotta learn how to how to leverage these new technologies. AI, yes, you have to you have to learn to do that because they should be helping you, as you said, Chantra, become efficient. They should be doing the mundane tasks that you're already that you shouldn't have to do and allow you to focus on the higher value activities. That's sales or in life in general, right? So you've got to learn how to embrace technology. You also have to start learning that you have to take a breath, step back, take a breath, and make it more about them and less about you. And that I really do think in any profession or in your personal life, but specifically in sales, you really do have to understand why you're doing this. You have to find the passion within you because it doesn't matter what you're selling, you are solving a problem. And you should be trying to make your buyer the hero. Whatever that hero looks like for that person, that should be your goal. So making sure that you definitely adopt technology, that you truly make it less about you and more about them. And I think that you really should, and I can't even remember the third point now, damn it. You should awesome. We went, we went nonstop, and now here we are.
SPEAKER_01:The last point is that you should remember to be authentic and you should remember that your why is about solving a problem for them. Period in the story. I I think that is hilarious on the Proven Not Perfect podcast. We are not perfect, but we are proven. Denise, you have been a joy to talk to. It's been a snack, but it's been a very power-packed snack. And I appreciate your time. And man, so excited for you continuing to do what you do. How can folks that are looking to impact sales experience, sales training? Um, it sounds like you do some individual coaching, some fractional work, and you also can do some work with larger corporations as well as they think about selling philosophies with their teams. Where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00:On LinkedIn. That's the easiest place to find me. Just find me there. I'm a LinkedIn top voice. I try to go there every day. I don't publish as much content as I used to, but you can hit me up in the DMs, find an old post and comment there, reach out there on LinkedIn. I'm always around somewhere or another. Excellent. It's been a joy. Have a wonderful, wonderful rest of the day.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for spending time with Proven That Perfect.