More Than Visitors: Tourism for Community Impact with Kireem Swinton

What if tourism wasn’t just about attracting visitors—but about uplifting an entire community?

In this episode, Stephen sits down with Kireem Swinton, President & CEO of Visit Baltimore, to explore a powerful shift happening in destination marketing. Drawing from his background as a championship athlete and team leader, Kireem shares how he’s building a culture rooted in trust, empowerment, and purpose.

Together, they unpack what it really means to connect tourism to the lives of residents—from small business owners to frontline workers—and why DMOs must become storytellers not just to visitors, but to their own communities. Kireem also opens up about leadership, mentorship, the lessons he learned during his time as interim CEO, and the importance of taking care of yourself while leading others.

This conversation is a reminder that tourism isn’t just an economic engine—it’s a human one.

Business Class is brought to you by Learn Tourism, the nonprofit academy - harnessing the power of science, business psychology and adult education to advance the tourism industry and build sustainable economies. Learn how to engage your community, win over stakeholders and get more visitors at learntourism.org. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Kareem Swinton and I'm the president CEO of Visit Baltimore here in Baltimore, Maryland. Kareem, how are you? Stephen, how are you, sir? I love those glasses. I love yours too, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

A lot of personality in those frames, sir. You know, and I don't wear them often enough. I have been told that people can tell my mood based on what I'm wearing for glasses.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Is it the same true for you? I don't know if it's the mood for me. It sort of is just that I need a change for the day. So I wear a ton of different frames. It kind of started out. It's a weird part with me, but it's sort of a weird story. Is that when I finished playing football and I started working in sales, one of my directors at the time said I needed something that sort of toned down my aggressive look. So I started wearing frames just to kind of help that combat it a little bit and uh never turned away from it because for my size, if you haven't seen me in person, I'm like 6'4, 290 pounds. So uh pretty big guy could be intimidating to some, but I started wearing the frames and then I was like, well, it's hard for me to find snazzy clothes like some of the smaller guys. So I'll I'll try and buy different types of glasses over time, and I just continue to cycle through them, man. So I won't say my mood, but I will say that I'll throw a different pair on all the time just to just to throw people off. I love yours. Just mix it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, I've got I've probably got 15 pairs, including some that I still haven't worn yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Some I really need to donate because I'm like, I don't even know if the script is still good anymore in it because it's changed over the years. But you know, it's that that one that has the color in it. You're like, what if I wear something that I need this splash of color? Right. So, but I probably need to donate a few. It only gives me an excuse to get more.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

That's exactly it. You mentioned playing football. How do you think football prepared you for the role that you have now as a CEO of a Zip Baltimore?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I think that it really has prepared me because football is a team sport. I have been fortunate enough to be a captain on a championship team in high school and also two Black College National Championships. And one thing that I know is that the coach is super important, the captain is important, but no one's more important than the team dynamic. So for me, it's really prepared me because I also know that it's not the moment that you're on stage that's the most important. It's everything you do up to the moment to get on stage. So for me, I've always put in hard work and been able to grind in order to get what I want and be successful in business, but it's always been from everything I put in, not just the one moment that was provided to me. I've always used the resources around me, which for me, forever and day, has always been people. If I can connect with people the right way, and then I can get them to buy into what I want to do as a leader, then they'll ultimately try and get to the common goal, which is for us to do better as an organization. So I've sort of always let into that way. I do the same thing with my team here. They are essentially my bosses in a way. I don't try to get in their space and take over anything, but I realize that everyone has a special gift. It's up to me to try and push them into their own space and let them know that they'll be successful and I'll support them in any way I can if they continue to push forward to get where they want with their gifts. And in turn, it always works out for me, man. I'm happy that it does. But I find that as an athlete, investing in people always meant more because the person that you didn't think will be great in a position, you end up trying to help them out and they do very well. They never forget that. They become loyal to you and they work their hard, their butts off as hard as they can for you forever. So I feel the same way here.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

If you were to define the Kareem era in Baltimore, or for the organization, what would set it apart?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Probably honestly trying to connect the wheel that is travel and tourism to the community as a whole. I think that many times we talk about economic impact in the city, and we talk about a convention that's coming in to tell me how many dollars it's going to bring and all that stuff. But have we actually told the story of how important it was or how hard we work in order to get it? And then when something comes here, how impactful it is to the community because the taxes that are being paid go back into the general fund and possibly help you in your neighborhood to get the pothole field, right? The person that's actually working and serving you your meal during that time may have had another job and this is their second job, and they're able to do more within their family income for that month because of what we've done when it comes to tourism. In my era, I am hoping that the high impact that we, my high impact team that's working so hard right now, we can actually work to kind of tell that story throughout so we get everyone in our community understanding what the value of tourism really is. I think that even if we talk to our own family and friends, like, what do you do? And you try to explain it, they still have no idea. But that's probably because I feel like sometimes we haven't put it in terms that would be relatable for everyone. And I think that we can, and under my space, I would like people to know that everyone here matters. So the person that is doing the billman work, the person that is doing the housekeeping work was super important, the person that is serving, the person that's out actually filling the potholes. All those people matter, but tourism is a funnel that can continue to fill into the economic engine that helps them out in every way in every part of the city.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Do you think that's a big change for most DMOs to shift from being storytellers to the visitor, but to also being storytellers to your community?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

I think it's not an either or, it's an and-and. I think that we need to be doing both. And I don't know if we've done a great job right now doing both because tourism itself, we're sort of in a weird space right now, Stephen. When you look at the international traveler, it may not be coming in town as much right now. Or for us in particular, we have like, I want to explore more and grow this warm welcome program we have that tells people that we have a safe space for them if they come into Baltimore. So when I say and, I mean that we need to do both right now because otherwise funds get cut, resources get cut, people don't know where funding should be or how you want to help. And the visitors, I think, will also come right now because they're looking for a place that they can help people. So if you can show that you are helping people by dollars spent, and it's not just about you coming to the concert, and then you're deciding if you want to go home or not for the night. But you know what? I'm actually going to stay because my funds are helping a small business that I'm gonna go get coffee from in the morning and a restaurant that's a small business owner. And then I'm also, you know, just gonna go home after or pay for parking. That fund is still helping someone within the city that probably needs your money. I think that we need to do both in our space. Yeah. Who do you look up to as a mentor? Well, of course, Al Hutchison has always been a great mentor to me. Elliot Ferguson is another one I always look to as a great mentor. Don Welsh with Destination International has been just a wealth of information as a whole. Tom Nowak, who has since retired from the Visa Seattle, has been a great mentor to me as well. That's just obviously on the DMO side. I've had a number of them that have also been, you know, whether it be association CEOs, Eric Rosen with school psychologists, Robert Green with American Correctional Association, Desiree Knight as well, like a number of people within our industry, Wanda Johnson. I can go on for the people that I've talked to about leadership roles on both sides, because I feel like, you know, again, going back to my sports background, if you don't really understand who you're playing with on all sides, then you end up losing at some pelt or hitting a roadblock where the other person will start the game. So I feel like I've been taking advice and taking direction and guidance from each one of those entities all over to be able to just understand what I want this Earth to look like for me. But they also teach me that I need to lead with my authentic self. So that's what I've been doing because I don't want to come around here not being myself every day, man. And that's not how you'll get the best out of me. And I think that my team will be able to sense that. So I've definitely reached out to all of them. I just spoke to a few, probably even this morning. I reached out to two and talked to two this morning, this weekend, just asking questions, bouncing things off of them. Also, you know, I trust them. And I think that trust has been built from what I've seen them do and also how they've invested in me and just their time that they didn't ever have to give, but they gave it because they wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

One of the things I've said before is that the traveler has something in common with a great destination marketer, and that is a love for learning.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

We visit new places and try new foods and do new things and experience new cultures because we want to learn about them. What is something you are eager to learn this year?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Something I'm eager to learn this year. I'm eager to learn how everyone is going to really embrace this America's 250 and what it's going to be alive in different spaces, how they're going to tell their story about it in particular. Like Baltimore City and how we tell it will be different, obviously, in DC and Philadelphia. But I'm interested to learn more about how they're going to tell that story, but also how they're tapping into the other entities around them in order to band together to tell the proper story. I think in that messaging, I'm always trying to find alignment with other agencies, with city agencies and everything. And I think that I learned a lot from how other people are doing it to try to kind of see how we can all pull it together. So I'm I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to learning about that. I'm looking forward to learning about how the small businesses activate here. My grandfather, when I was growing up, always wanted a dry cleaner. That was his thing. He wanted to be a small business owner and dry cleaner, but he was never afforded the opportunity and didn't have the resources know to do so. I'm always the person that's trying to find out how I can help small businesses win. Because I feel like if he just had more, then you know our life could be completely changed. But I am able, in my position, to affect small business by bringing more visitors in. But the only way I can know how it's going to help those small businesses is by learning from them and finding out what's helpful to them, which I have been able to do so far now in this role because I've had this long runway. So I was probably say learning from them, but also kind of learning how other destinations are pulling together for this monumental time that'll be coming up in about two months for us.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

You mentioned a long runway. So you have quite a period of time as interim. I did lead into being CEO. Two parts. Number one, what's something you learned during that period of time that might have surprised people? And the second part being, how did you celebrate when you were appointed to the position?

SPEAKER_00 11:45

First off, the celebration, right? I didn't really get a chance to celebrate. So I would say that's one thing that I always push on my team is we need to celebrate more, but I really didn't celebrate myself because I'm still in work mode, right? Because I feel like there's so much that needs to be done. So I haven't gotten the opportunity to do that, but I plan to do it at some point this year, also milestone birthday, right? So I'm like, it should all happen at the same time, but I'm so busy in planning mode, I haven't gotten a chance to really step out on that and do that. And then again, for the long runaway I had, one thing that I think people would be surprised, you said that I learned. I really, I don't think that I really knew the impact that tourism even had on our residents. I don't think that I didn't I learned that many of the residents may not even know the value of tourism right now, how impactful it is. They just look at the dollars and cents, but don't know how it relates back to them. And I think that's a tragedy. I think that's something we need to fix. That long runway I had allowed me to listen in every pocket of this city. I was able to go to every different district, a lot of neighborhoods, a lot of business districts, everyone, people going through redevelopment, people who have a new project that's in their neighborhood that would aid, where have been an underserved community for a long time. Food deserts, right? But how do we tie in? Do we get, you know, the health association that's coming into town and tell them, hey, there's a place over here that doesn't have many medical facilities. You guys are the professionals that may not get to touch on them often. If you want to do your community service project, could you do it over here or include them in it so they will get something too? My me being able to learn uh how many people just don't understand like the value of children, what we provide, I learned a lot myself. I think that it's it's important that I try and find a way in order to roll back into that in order to help them. How are you most like each of your parents? So, my dad, I would think he's the person that comes into the room and likes to sort of be the life of the party. Say hello to everyone in the room. There's not going to be a stranger in that place. So walking around, just introducing myself and talking to everyone is definitely something I get from him. My mom was a person growing up who always worked two jobs, sometimes three, in order to make life better for myself. So I definitely have learned to just grind everything out from her and that my work ethic is what counts. Like whatever happens in the end is going to happen, but it won't be because you didn't do your part or do enough. And then both of them combined always put their arms around other people all the time. If a person didn't have a meal, if a person didn't have a dollar, if a person was in the neighborhood and needed help, my mother and grandmother really were the ones who opened their doors all the time. So I feel like trying to build that community and seeing these young people that need to find a way in our area are really important to me. And trying to get more people in the hospitality. So I feel like I've taken something from each one of them, but it would probably be my dad, is was the laughing, jovial, crazy one that danced at the he'd start to dance at the party, if you will. You know, that was fun from him. And mom was more the straight lace. I'm going to work, I'm coming home, and at this time I go to the next job because I want to have a better life for you. So that's what I'm in the current process of doing now is always being on, which is why I haven't celebrated yet, Steven, because I'm still working, man.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

We're gonna have to fix that.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

You mentioned the young people in the community. What advice would you give to somebody who is somewhere in the 18 to 23 age range and figuring out what they want to do? What advice would you have for them?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Well, I tell them there's something I I speak at schools all the time. I actually was speaking at Voice Date this week, and just tell them that in hospitality is something for everyone. People think you only come into hospitality, you can only do one or two things. So I'm like, no, we have a person that does tech, we have a person that's a data analyst, there's a person that does finance, there's a person that does, you know, event planning. There's something in here in hospitality for everyone. If you decide to come over, it's not exactly what you think, which is why most people who are not in hospitality end up converting in the hospitality because they were in some other field and they didn't have no idea either. You can actually come into it a little early and build up your resume and then have a long-standing career within hospitality. But also, I tell young people that right now, I was just this weekend doing a spring cleanup with the mayor, and I was talking to a young man, and he's trying to figure it out for next year. And he's like, I just don't know about college. And I told him there's plenty of CTEs out here, there's plenty of technical education and opportunities for you that are not just in college. If you want to do that, there's a number of people, my family, my the men of my family were a family of carpenters. And I didn't want to learn until I bought my first house. And I'm like, oh gosh, I need to start to learn this. And they they started to teach me at that point. But had I learned it earlier, I could have turned into my own business and done something on my own. So I'm just telling them that there's plenty of opportunity. Don't think it's just one thing that you need to do. But hospitality coming in, we have tons of work. We want to try to build up our workforce with young people who will be here for a long time. We want to see some how to service others and do it with a smile, which I think they can all do. But there's so many different areas that they can go into in the hospitality if they just decide to come over and let us help. What's been the most expensive lesson you've learned? Uh-uh. I'm not I wasn't going to need one financially. I was going to tell you the most expensive lesson I've learned is not to use my paid time off. And not to use my paid time off because I just told you I'm used to working and working and working, but I realize sometimes that I just need days for my own mental health. And when I have not taken a break in such a long time because I'm always thinking about what's ahead, I haven't put myself first in those situations. And I don't want anything to happen to my health. I hear this from a lot of other mentors that I mentioned earlier, too, is that you have to take care of yourself because what happens to the shop when you don't? I'm fortunate enough to have leaders around me that will handle everything, but I want to make sure I spend a lot of time taking care of my team. I always tell my team, I'm the umbrella that keeps the storm off of you. Because that's what I like to be. But at the same time, sometimes I just want to put it down when it's a sunny day and enjoy it myself. And that's really difficult for me to do because I'm always thinking about the next thing that we can achieve. But the most expensive thing I would say is me not taking my PTO because negatively affected, you come up to the end of the year and you have extra days, and other people talking about these vacations, they've gotten a chance. You can see the break on their face. And sometimes I think I need to do a better job of taking breaks. And I should have done a better job throughout my career. What are you going to do for your next break? Man, you know what? I I have not even scheduled the next break yet. But I'm thinking of trying to do something during the holiday because everyone will be home at the same time and try to get off the grid then. And my mother's aging right now as well. And it would be great to have her someplace with the rest of the family that she can just enjoy seeing all generations kind of move around. So I'm trying to plan something for the holiday, brother. I have not gotten it all locked down yet, but that'll be the next break because this summer and this fall is going to be too busy for us. It is going to be busy.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

What's something I didn't ask that you wish I did?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Oh man, I don't know. You asked some great questions, man. I haven't had people ask questions this good, it's been really good. I I think about our, it'll be business related, right? But our convention center here is one that is in the process of we're trying to go through this renovation of it and modernization and the redevelopment of the city and all these things. I I just want people to know that we have great leadership in place right now with great developments going on, almost $7 billion worth of veterans. We're going through a renaissance, and most people really don't know that. But Baltimore itself is what I always call a vibe. We were talking about mood earlier. We have something for any type of mood or any type of vibe you can be looking for in all these neighborhoods. Over 250 neighborhoods, which is more than Chicago, right? We have something here for everyone, but I want people to know that this is just a really safe space and one through going through a renaissance. So in the next five years, you know, we're going to be gangbusters where people I think that people are going to start to come here and feel like they want to actually be in this place for many, many years to come. No other questions that I think that you you didn't ask me that I think would uh probably be fitting, man. I mean, this has been wonderful just to have this conversation with you, Steven.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I appreciate it. I've got two more. One, what is the most kind thing you've experienced?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

I've had an outpour of just generosity and and thanks from not just my team, but I mean everyone in this entire community. I've done community service cleanups because I have gone to, you know, poetry slams, because I have helped with cooking competitions, because I've I've done everything in every pocket of the community and in events that people are seeing me in all the places because I care about them. So I think the most of this comes back to me is just people feeling like I understand them. So they really want me to be in this role as opposed to someone that was just appointed. They feel like they know me and they know my heart's in the right place. I'm going to try to do the best I can for the people in the city. So it's been an outcry. My entire, if you looked at my LinkedIn profile when I did announce, uh My whole family's like, wow, so many people commented, but I didn't really understand how much of an impact I had on people in the industry. So I'm very proud to say that I have connected with so many people from so many different parts of this world that maybe I made an impact on. They made an impact on me. We've been able to stay connected, that they're very just proud of me and very proud for me to be in this role leading visit Baltimore in the next chart.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Is there anything you'd like to ask me? You already took the glasses.com.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

That's what I'm on too. That's where I got these from, like you said. I got the same ones. Yeah. I would ask you that in if you're thinking of Baltimore right now, what do you think about when you think Baltimore?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I've had the opportunity to work with several members of your team over the last few years and to chat with Al and to chat with yourself and to actually experience the city and to spend time there. One thing that comes to mind it goes back to a simple word, and that's kindness. You can have hospitality without authenticity, but you can't have authenticity without hospitality. And every single person that I've met from Baltimore has been welcoming and kind and over the top proud of their city. And that's something that I know a lot of cities work hard for. And to see the the community want to participate more, to see the community want to be on board with initiatives like the online learning programs or the community involvement programs or the workforce development programs. You know, there there is a there's a level of excitement that permeates all of those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

I love that, man. You gave me more energy for my afternoon, sir. Woo woo. That's how I feel too. I know that's really how I feel. I I feel like the the the people here they they want to win. And the people here deserve to win. They really do. And I feel like visit Baltimore, I never say myself, because you know, I I don't believe there's one person that makes this happen. Like I said, going back to sports before, I can I can steer the ship a little bit, but without my crew, it just won't work out anyway. But the thing is, here in Baltimore, everyone is a part of that crew. It's just how we tell the story to let them know that they're a part of that crew. So I'm excited about the future, man. The Renaissance, the buildings are starting to go up. We got some shovels in the ground, about some things, great things happening. But, you know, people like you that can help tell our story and talk about your experiences been with us, I think are critical for us, man. So I just want to thank you very much for your time. You are an absolute delight. Thank you, kind sir. Thank you, man. I would love that. Let's keep in touch. Thank you so much for your time today, Steven. Appreciate you.