04. Motherhood. Triggers. Limiting Beliefs. Let go and let God.

In this episode we discuss motherhood, triggers, limiting beliefs, letting go and let God.

Motherhood: the shame and guilt we may hold as we navigate life's choices. Is it serving us?

Triggers:  beautiful tools to allow us to go within. What is unconscious in us that needs to be looked at?

Limiting Beliefs: face them, and tools to flip the switch to a new thought pattern. Asking ourselves; when did you start believing that?  What is the learning that will release that belief? What is the new belief that you want to have?

Letting go: the belief that guilt and God can not share the same space. 

You are exactly where you are meant to be. Life is divinely guided and if we lean in, we will see that it is all happening for us. 

Questions to ask that were referenced in this episode:

When did you decide that? Or when did you start believing that?

What is the learning that will release that belief?

What do you want instead? Or what is the new belief you want to have?

Transcript

Unknown: 0:05

Hi there, we know that what is personal is universal. I am Amanda Loveland. And I am Jessica devenish. Welcome to the conversation. Good morning. I'm singing again. I've been recording this whole time already. So Episode Four. Why phone about it? I am surprised. Is that funny? I'm surprised at where the conversations have been going. And I'm surprised at the response. I don't know if that makes. I mean, of course, that makes sense. But I've been a little surprised. I was surprised to know that I had any expectation right. But I have been surprised at some of the feedback, the conversation where we've gone. Yeah. Especially Episode Three. Yeah. Right. And where we're gonna go today, we're the place. So today, I love the idea of talking about motherhood and the challenges that that brings. Yeah. Are we enough? And interestingly, just the other day, I had a conversation with a girlfriend and that's really the whole conversation. She was just filling like, not enough. Yeah, all about motherhood. And my her daughter was graduating, she was kind of filling all the all the fields fields, you know, one, I think what's challenging with motherhood and with it's not just motherhood, it's fatherhood, too. But moms carry most of the most of the, I don't know, the weight, the baggage that not the baggage, what's the word I'm looking for? We put ourselves in the place where we like, right take on more? Yeah, well, we're not we're more natural caregivers were the ones who birthed the child, you know, our children were the ones that have, you know, in utero for nine months and have that connection. And, for the most part, women are more nurturers than men. Not it's not always the case. But for the most part, that's just how it is. But I know that one of the things that I actually there's a few things that I wanted to touch on after our last episode. So hopefully, those of you that are listening to this, have listened to our first three episodes, because one of the pieces that I wanted to say that I was thinking about this morning, was when we step out of abusive relationships, a lot of times will still continue to carry the abuse. And what I mean by that is, if they're still in our lives, we'll still continually let them do their programming, let them do their, their habits, let them do their, you know, whatever, those things that will trigger us, at least in my experience. And I had, I mean, this was years and years ago with one of my exes, where I realized how I would get so pissed off by the things that he was saying, or the things that he was doing. And I realized that was just I was still hooked in. Because if I wasn't still hooked in, then I wouldn't still be triggered. And that that that is a hard, that's a hard one, when you still have someone in your life that is, has a tendency to be abusive, yeah, that you still have to have a relationship with it's, it's hard, it's challenging. And when we continue to carry guilt or shame, or we're letting those triggers come in, we're still we're still giving permission to that abuse. Does that make sense? Absolutely. So that was those hooks emotionally mentally, you know, spiritually that they haven't you? Yeah, yeah, they're still life those triggers are things that are active and you know, if triggers I was just actually writing about this the other day, I'm, I'm developing a course and I was just writing about triggers. And I feel like triggers are one of those really beautiful tools that we have, that actually allow us to go What is unconscious that is asking to be looked at, that's what a trigger is, you know, when somebody triggers you, it's an opportunity to go Okay, what is this within me that actually has a fear or a belief that that's true? And how can I go and you know, fully embrace it or fully whatever it is alchemize it heal it so that it's no longer a trigger? No longer that belief that I hold well, and trigger is such an important word. Some people really look at that as you know, a trigger for depression or anxiety, which it can be that it can also be flipped the other way. It's a trigger to look go within and find out what is why is that bothering me? What is it about that? That is making me feel that way? And then going deeper and in a positive way? How can I raise my vibration if I'm feeling that way? As opposed to oops, there's a trigger now it's got a hook in me and it's gonna take me down while I'm it's interesting how you're talking about this because I I'm curious when you say a trigger for depression or anxiety. What do you mean by that? Well, what I mean by a lot of people take trigger as like, I'm triggered. So now I'm going low. So it's almost an excuse. In my experience, yeah. Whenever I've someone said I was triggered and It caused me to do this it was it triggered them to go low. And I think the word trigger is maybe overused, in my opinion, it's an excuse a crutch, to go low or to find the dark place. One, I think that's what i what i, for me triggers are places that I get to look within me of going, Okay, where can I heal? So it's not a crutch, it's not an excuse, I'm not a victim to it. And I'm now now not going to be, you know, laying on my couch because somebody said something. And now I feel shitty, and I'm a horrible person and data data. It's more of a Oh, do I really believe that? And what, what is, I think I brought up those three questions in one of our podcasts. When did I first start believing that about myself? What do I want to believe instead? What was the third? I'm missing one of them? All? I'll find it and I'll post it in the show notes. But that those questions are really, really good for when you get triggered, because it wouldn't trigger you unless there was some sort of a subconscious belief around it, that you carry that it may be true, or you would not get triggered. Well, I think that goes to self awareness, though, you have this 100% that a trigger is an opportunity to go within Yeah, and ask more questions. For example, if you're scrolling through Instagram, and somebody you see something that upsets you, that's a trigger. It doesn't have to be a negative thing. What is it about that? That I'm not liking about that? Right, 100%. And so that's why I share that is because I think that there, I'm seeing a shift in the word trigger, to a self awareness to go within and ask yourself the question, why. And I think to this, again, I always referenced Michael singer, because I love how he talks about some scars on the heart. And in NLP, which is fascinating that I'm learning oftentimes, not oftentimes, every time we have a traumatic memory, from childhood, especially or from our past, we are not remembering the event 100%. And how it happened. We're remembering it from whatever that place, whether it was triggered trauma, whatever it was a filtered view of how we're seeing that. And now that filtered view of that trauma creates a scar samskaara. I like to I like to think of them as scars, because that's a really good visual, that goes sits on your heart that now every time you have something that triggers that scar, you're seeing it through that filter view and not from the 100%, you know, wide open view, it's that really limited way of seeing things. It's like the more we can look at our triggers go and heal them clear them out, we start being able to view people and work on the world and ourselves in such a healed state and in a complete state so that we can live a life full of bliss and love and happiness instead of being a victim to our triggers. And being in that space, like you're talking about of using it as a crutch. Right? being empowered and being sovereign and not disempowered and giving our power away. Because that is one of the you know, talking about abuse. Where Where are you giving your power away? Yeah, where do you continue to give your power away, I had a I had a woman reach out to me through Instagram, that was one of the partners to one of the people I wrote about in the in the book. And she knew who I you know, she knew exactly she's like your story. I identified with everything that you're saying. And I what she says she goes, I love that you're able to heal from it, because it still haunts me. Like I still I can't forgive myself. Like she said some things that it's like, well, why and I, I didn't respond to her. And as long story why I have to I'm very careful with what doors I open, that are connected to those past partners. And in this particular instance, like that it's a door that I think she still has an open door with this person. And there's no way I'm letting that into my, into my world. It's your boundary. Yeah. And anyway, it just made me stop and think of how many years has it been and you and you're still allowing that to continue to define who you are today in, in a non healthy way of you know, I can't forgive myself and I, you know, what, whatever the all the things are, I can't remember everything that she said. But again, that's that place of, you know, if you have had abuse in your life, are you still allowing that? Are you still letting the effects of that continue to rule not rule but govern? how you view your world now and view yourself? I think a lot of people do. Yeah, and I even find myself sometimes like I mean, the book you the game of life and how to play it. Oh yeah. Where she talks about the living in the past as a failure mechanism. Oh, it's such a powerful statement and how often just driving or thinking about something an emotion comes up and you find yourself triggered. Write from a past experience. And the subconscious doesn't know if that's still happening right now, or if it was in the past. So recognizing that, and not living in the past and being grateful for that experience, and not letting it sink you. And that's where I think vibration comes into, like being on the frequency of something, I always describe frequency when I'm working with people, like, if we're gonna listen to a radio station like Kibera is like a marijuana one. Right, but it's there, that radio station is on that one on one frequency all the time. It's out into the universe all the time. We're just not tuned to that frequency. But it doesn't mean it's not the wave, the volume, the vibration, the frequency isn't out there, right? We're just not attuned to it. But as soon as you change that dial, all of a sudden, you can hear it clearly. Right? So it's the same concept of, am I going to be on that frequency of that pain of that past experience? Or am I gonna switch the channel to something else? Because it's always going to be available? Whether or not you tune in, or you tune in, tune out? Yeah. So that's a really simple way for people to kind of see how quickly we can tune in or we can tune out to that frequency. I 100%. Agree. In fact, that reminds me I, I teach my kids, I taught them at a very young age, how to change the channel. And it's a really cute exercise to do with kids at a very young age that you start with let's I'm in the ocean, and I'm swimming with the dolphins and I pick up a starfish at the bottom of the ocean and changing channel. And then Jessica goes and she's says I'm on a farm and I'm writing a horse and and then when we would do it in the car, so everybody would take turns because you completely switch the channel. And what that allows is for as my kids have gotten older, and they are struggling with something, or they're being little stinkers, or in a mood, hey, Alexa, why don't you go to spend some time in your room for a minute, and you need to change channel. And for that it was like this indicator. Yeah, it's a really cool tool to be able to teach kids. And we can do it too as adults. I mean, it's a little different, because our neural pathways are a lot more forged than a child. And but it's a it's a cool tool. So well, it's funny that you share that because I did something similar. We just didn't call it that. We just call it moving energy. So it could they could they could if they couldn't sleep or something. I would say okay, so pick, they pick a color, right? And back then they didn't understand all the colors of chakras, right? Yeah, pick orange and move the color orange from the bottom of your feet to the top of your head. Like you're filling up a cup of water. Yeah. And just move the energy and keep doing it and move all the colors. If you run out of colors, do use gold, use white use, and it would help change the channel. Yeah. So I love that you say it that way. Because that's such a great way for kids to understand that. And I would do that is just move the energy moving energy on that helps for them to focus on something and calm their brain to write to run that through. And that's really cool tool. I still do it now. I'm like, did you do the colors? colors? I love mom. Jeez, how old am my mom? Are the journaling? Did you journal Oh, mama journaling, get out of your body. But I really feel strongly that it's such a cathartic release to move from your head to your heart out through your arms, which are your creative channels. onto paper now and just kind of moving that moving that through? Why does it get to out of your body. So even so as a shaman, when I'm working with a client, we actually they they'll hold stones as they're talking. And as energy builds are emotions build, I'll have them blow the energy into the stone. And I mean, that's a whole reason why I do that. But it gets the energy out of the body, right and gets the energy out of the body movement too. Especially when you're angry. How many people when they're angry, it's like, oh, I just need to go for a walk or I need to get out I need to move. As always, you know, it's always a very, all these little tools that sometimes we maybe do just naturally and other times it's like, oh, yeah, I should start doing that. Or Hey, have you are you breathing today? Are you holding your breath? Like just even having that awareness? You know, when you're feeling stressed? even getting a headache at this point, if I'm asked my kids, have you taken a deep breath, you know, lack of oxygen to the brain? Yeah, had a glass of water. Simple. So, like holding that energy and like not breathing. Yeah. can really tense those things up. Yeah. So it's a great tool. One of the other things that I had mentioned to you that that we decided we're going to talk about today is something that I'm gonna do my best to communicate through his podcast, but I feel like it was the last episode of the episode before I almost started talking about it. And then I didn't because it's a it's a vulnerable piece for me to share, but it's just Can I were talking it keeps pinging to speak to this and this is kind of why Just kind of mentioned in the beginning in regards to the guilt, the shame sometimes that we carry as parents. And when I went through my first divorce, and now my first relationship, he, he was emotionally abusive. And I didn't realize that I was young, and he was eight years older than I was. And I did not realize how many things were playing out for, for a long time, he would say, he would mock me quite a bit, you know, tell me how stupid I was, you know, always putting me down and putting me in my place. And later, I realized part of why he was doing that is because there was a, there was a fear or intimidation piece, or he didn't ever want me to, to match him. And when we did business together, I started matching him. And I actually started seeing him for who he really was. And that's what started unwinding our marriage. So that's what he was trying to prevent, you know me from seeing. So here's someone who, you know, chose a girl that was eight years younger than him for a reason. I mean, the person he's married to now is quite a bit younger than him. And there's a reason that I believe that he does that. And that's fine. I chose into it, she's choosing into it, you know, we're not, I'm not a victim to it, and I was a victim in the behavior that was happening. And after getting out of that relationship, I dove into other relationships, you know, I've shared before I've been married four times. And I didn't realize again, I didn't realize that I how abusive that relationship was, then I chose into another relationship. And then another really, really abusive relationship. But I had a moment when I was with my husband, who I'm with now who stable, healthy, amazing with my kids, that all my kids were really young, when I first went through the divorce my divorce, and Hawthorn 450, it was three years that it took me to really figure out who the hell I was, because I went from this dynamic. And when we talked about having to put your oxygen mask on first, that's what naturally started happening after a guy that relationship, I kind of had to I also left religion at the same time, I had to go put my oxygen mask on first and my kids, I was not 100% present for my kids. And I didn't realize it, I was definitely into my like, what I what I needed, what felt good to me what I was trying to go through and heal, and I'm running a business to at the same time, which is the first time I'd ever done that by myself, I had been doing that with my ex husband. And I mean, there were so many dynamics at play. And I was, you know, with my husband, Travis, there was an incident. And I will not get into the details of it for a lot of different reasons. But there was an incident with my youngest son, who was five or six at the time, where we had witnessed something happening. And it was like this huge door that just like blew open of holy shit how much has been going on in my kids lives that I had no idea about. And it was that moment of like, of recognizing that I was not there for my kids for a while. And it was a hard one to sit with of owning that. And then having the open conversations with my kids because I did have what's really going on. And I'm so sorry that I haven't but I didn't realize that this was going on in your world because as your parent as your mom, I'm supposed to be protecting you. I'm supposed to be watching out for you and teaching you that these behaviors and these things that are happening or not. Okay. So thank God I had that moment thank God I had Travis because then now I had to help the relationship the stability I had gone through and done so much work to where I was in a much healthier place. And now I could be 100% available for my kids. But this was one of those stories that it felt to share. Because I don't and and I know you'll share some things too but it regardless of the parent that you are good bad sub caught, you know, whatever it is whatever you think your level of parenting is, we've all had those moments of crap. Was I there for my kids? How much did I we there's a joke that we often say of you know, it's not saving for college, it's saving out for their therapy, find them all the things we know that they're gonna end up going to therapy about, and what's beautiful about this experience with my kids and where we're at now. I have such an open relationship. My oldest son won't comment all the time how I am his best friend. And he posted that on Mother's Day, this past Mother's Day. And of course that's that like, you know, trying not to ugly cry or like the oh my gosh, this just fills my heart of like, how did I get here like I for me? I shifted from this having to protect How do I phrase this? I remember sitting in a sacrament when I was Mormon one Sunday and a woman was to speaking from the pulpit. And one of the things that she said really caught my attention. I thought this is an interesting thought. She said, Why do we dumb down things when we're telling it to our children, because we're doing them a disservice. Because if they have the capacity to actually understand everything that you're saying, do not understand everything. You're saying. If they don't, then they'll understand a portion of it. But why do we dumbed down these things when we're teaching them. And when I went through this experience, it was it opened a door to Alright, I'm no longer going to be filtering. This person that's in their life, I'm actually going to be having open conversations of how to actually navigate this person, how to have healthy boundaries, even as a 678 1012 year old, 14 year old kid, which, what's beautiful about this is now they've all learned tools, they know how to navigate some unhealthy behaviors, they know how to recognize different kinds of dysfunction, which I had no idea. I didn't know how to do that until I was much older. And you I think, as moms, we don't give ourselves enough credit, because I think watching you do those things, Amanda, they learned how to do those things, which things like that, like stand up for yourself set boundaries. So you in your view, as a mom you're looking at, I wasn't there for them emotionally. And perhaps their perspective is my mom is strong. And a beautiful woman who loves herself. And I'm learning to love myself too, by watching her choose you. And I we've not had that conversation. I remember when I was writing my book, I had a very open conversation with my two two oldest and I had asked them, What was the question I asked. It was something in regards to a Is it okay, if I write about some of these things, I think I shared something with about Lucas. Oh, it was through the divorce in his experience. And I asked him, was he Okay, if I shared it? And it's like, yeah, of course, Mom, I'm totally fine. You know, I had very open conversations with them. Is there anything that you're still resentful? Do you resent mom at all for going through these relationships? And I think that was the question I had asked, as I'm writing through this, and recognizing again, over and over every time I would edit that damn book, how many times I had all these things I had gone through and my kids were a witness to and you know, here in Tagalog, here we go, we're gonna marry this guy, and here's his kids. And then this guy was surprising. And I didn't know I didn't know what to expect. And their response was, no, it was fine. And like, they're fine. What they miss is the kids, like the relationship that they that they had had with those, which is understandable. And my, you know, you've experienced that my kids are great and open and beautiful, loving children. Who Yeah, anyway? Well, they learn by your actions. They really did. And I think his wish, is we're shaming and guilting ourselves through that. We felt like we're not enough when we did something wrong. And their their experience? I don't know, it seems always lighter than where x are. Our view of it, you know, because we're because we're our own worst critic. Oh, 100%. While and as you and I were talking shame is the lowest there's this who did that scale of vibration? Oh, yes, you know, we'll find it and we'll put it in the show notes. But shame is the lowest vibration is the lowest frequency of any of the emotions that you can hold. And when you hold that kind of emotion, or those feelings in shame and guilt in your body, it will literally create disease, dis ease in the body, it can, it'll also attract things over and over and over for you to look at that shame and that guilt that you're holding, until you clear it until you go through and make peace with it and own. You know what I chose that, and this is why, and I'm letting go of these emotions, because I'm human, My children are human. And this was, this was the other aspect to that I have a very strong belief that we have multiple lifetimes. And that in each lifetime, we choose different experiences, for learning for growth for understanding. In fact, when I was going through some healing with my first husband, I had a session with a woman and I was still Mormon at the time she goes, I just want you to try this on for a minute. Let's say you believe we have multiple lifetimes. So I'm like, okay, and she said, Let's believe that you are, let's say that you believe that we travel in soul families. So in each lifetime, maybe our child has been our parent or you know, there's different aspects of this soul family. That's why we have soul recognition with a lot of people that we meet in our world, there's just something familiar, and you just instantly Connect. So let's say then, that each lifetime is for learning for growth for understanding because it's just all part of the whole. It's all part of expansion. As I learn and grow. Jessica learns and grows, God learns and grows like it's all we're all connected. We're all we're all one. Let's say you believe that. Then let's say in this lifetime that we're currently incarnating in, I wanted to learn what abuse look like what death looked like with all these things look like because only having that personal experience, what I really know what that felt like, because you can tell me stories, and I can have sympathy and empathy for it, but I cannot physically somatically understand everything that you've gone through, there's just no possible way. So let's say then that I turn to one of these partners in the pre before I chose to incarnate and say, Hey, to the soul family, will you play this part out for me? What if that was true? That means our children also did that. Or children also chosen in this lifetime with me as their mother, and all these different things that we've gone through. It's a it's an interesting paradigm shift for a lot of people. And it was very healing for me at that time. So it's something that I like to, to share often because I do hold that belief that all of that is true. I do too. I mean, I think when I was younger, I was upset that my brother in law had passed away and all these things that happen, you know, business partners had taken advantage of our family and, and my situation with Courtney, and all those things, you know, why are these happening to me? Yeah, and now I am of the same belief that I chosen, just as they chose me. Right. All those experience are from past life experience. I want to I need to learn more about this. Yeah, I need to I agree with you. Totally. I'm glad you shared that. And that's powerful. I think more people believe that, then maybe they are willing to share down. It's a powerful belief. It's helped me a lot. Me too, as I've come across challenges and said, this is this is divine I chosen? And especially something that continues to happen. Yeah, like with your partners. You know, the similar similar stories keep repeating themselves. Yeah. What is it here that I asked to learn? Yeah. Which is challenging. I think the hardest thing we have to we get to do as humans is to look within I really do. I believe that is the hardest thing. I think death is some of these things are painful. But when we're forced to go within, and look at those places that we're holding, whatever it is, and we're forced to go look at our shadows, I think that is some of the hardest things that we get to choose into if we choose into one. I think that's where as a, as a mom, a working mom, you know, you hear a lot of women who feel guilty because they go to work every day. Now, maybe because their neighbor or their sister in law, they stay home with their kids all day. And there's that judgment piece. And I need you. And I do see that a lot. Well, the self judgment piece, big time, for sure. And I think that I look back and I think, gosh, you know, there's some shame in the guilt. I was working so much when I was starting my business and my kids were younger. And you know, it's all about choice. I'm a believer that. Not so much that life is about balance, but it's about choice about choice points. Yeah. So there's times in my career when let's say that there's a science fair. And a conference. I inherently remember choosing the conference every time not because I didn't love my kids. And I mean, I was a room mom, and I did all those things, too. But if there was a choice point where something happened on the same day, you know, I was in this like, steadfast, I'm building my business. Yeah, my head down. I'm doing it for the family idea that I would go to the conference. Now to this day. I mean, I think I had my two sisters and my mom and my best friend, it took four of them to replace me at the science fair with dad, because I couldn't be there. Yeah. So I remember like, I can't be at the science fair, because I have to be at this conference. So you guys all need to show up. And inherently that's like the one science fair, that that child remembers that I wasn't there. Oh, do I remember what you're like I was that one. The other ones you were there. It could have been any I don't remember any particular thing that happened at this particular conference. But I do remember missing out. And so there was some shame and guilt over the years as I would look back. Being a working mom, and those things don't serve me. Right. And I think I was looking for when I hit this goal with my business, when I what you're saying, I resonate with what you're saying about going within because it took me a while to get there because I was looking for happiness, abundance, from outside things were when I reach this goal of my business when I reach this goal with whatever then I will be happy or I will find gratitude. Right? And that is so opposite of where the abundance mentality and the grace and the love for yourself and your family exists is within and that's one reason. I mean, it took me Gosh, I had on my business for 12 years before I even took a vacation. I'm saying like I would go for a weekend camping trip. But in 2012 my parents I think it was their 40th wedding anniversary. We wanted to go on a cruise. And we all work together. Right? This is like the executive team. We had executive managers of course, but you know I was like, Oh, we can't leave. And I went on my vacation for the first time. In 2000 for a full week. How did you actually children, my executive team, and it was like, I mean, we took a satellite phone. That's how long ago? I was gonna say, though, were you able to actually relax them or not? Yes. It took me about 24 hours. Yeah. But then you know what it did? For me it filled up my cup. Yeah, so we talked about self love last time, that can be taking a bath, but it's also going on a vacation, spending one on one time with your person outside of your kids. And that's teaching your kids to that your marriage, your relationship is as equally important. You're not just a mom or a dad. You're also like, Oh, yeah, you you're a human. You're a woman. You're a man. And you have this other relationship. That's equally important. Yeah. Because I think I had, I wasn't, I was just so head down all in. I'm raising this baby, which was my business, right? And if you ask my kids now, you know, did did working full time? How did that affect you? positively or negatively? And positively, they would all say, You taught us how to work hard. Again, by watching you. You're strong and confident and you work hard. The negative would be you weren't always home, right? And there's, there's truth in that. And I had a lot of shame, and guilt. I mean, I would drop my kids off at 6am. I pick them up at 6pm. They were like the first and the last ones at daycare. Yeah. But then they had some great experiences of daycare, and they got to hike the way or do things with Yeah, but you know, I've never liked the way I got to do that. But they have great experiences there. But there there is them shame and guilt as a mother, when you look back, and obviously, those things aren't serving because I was taught by a coach A long time ago that the past offers guilt, the future offers worry we have right now is the the announcement, which is to control the controllable, that's all you have right now. And once I learned that and stop looking at these outside forces, if I hit this financial goal, my business or if I hit this, I'll be happy. If I have more time with my kids, if I don't have to work so much, I'll be happy. And once I realized that abundance is so much more if you go within then things shifted for me. And I didn't have shame and guilt. I realized that those things were happening for me, and I chose into all those things. Yeah. Then that's when, for me as a mom, I think when I found gratitude, and I found that it was from within that awareness. I think things shifted. Yeah, for me and my business 200 because I came from abundant mentality. And I that happy What do they call it? serotonin. I think we've talked about that before that oxy code. What does it tell us? That happy? It's serotonin, isn't it? I don't know. Anyway, but anyway, it's that it's that serotonin, I it's coming from me. So looking out that frequency is happiness and abundance. And I'm putting that out. While like what you're saying, the only thing that we have is the present, it is a present. Because we're in the present. And if we have that when like you're saying if we have that will one day, one day when I hit this, this is why I mean, you talk to any, any successful entrepreneurs, any wonder young people who've had major success, it wasn't When they reached goals, because then it was always the next goal in the next thing, and the next thing and the next thing and how many people actually are quite depressed, quite dissatisfied, even when they hit those things that they thought would make them happy. It's like the only thing that you can do is be happy in the present, be abundant, and have that mentality now in the present, and to what you're saying. I know when I when I first decided I was gonna start stepping in and helping run the business. My kids were young, I was gonna hire a nanny. I'm Mormon at the time. And I bring that up because being Mormon and a mom and working, there was more guilt. I felt like just when the society and being in Utah, I seen that. Yes. So we called it a mother's helper instead of a nanny. And I had to sit with, am I a horrible person, because I actually really enjoy working and I'm good at it. And it fills my cup, to have both and wanting to work. I wanted to go help with running this business that we were investing our money into for God's sakes. And I trusted myself more than I you know, someone else that I want would hire. And, and I remember my husband at the time giving me so much guilt. You know, our nannies are gonna be the ones that are raising our children, not you and your job. Your number one job is to be a mother. It's like well, wait a minute. That's not. That's not that's not necessarily accurate. Yeah, it's a heavy statement. Yeah. So I had to go through that and making my piece and actually again, I felt like a lot of times, when we talked about defining moments, there's been several defining moments in my life where it was going against the grain. And this was one of them. of I loved working and I was good at it. I was good at running a business. And I feel guilty. Yeah, enjoy. In that and taking time away from my phone and enjoy the enjoyment piece, wait a minute, this actually makes me feel good about who I am. And I can still be there for my kids, I'm still available for them. And later on, I got to a point to where I would know I had, I had built enough of a barometer, so to speak with my children of when I needed to be more present with them, and less involved in my business, and vice versa. And it always abdun flowed, and it always worked exactly how it should. Like the times when my kids needed me more my business was okay, if I stepped a little bit away from it. And vice versa, when my business needed it more because it is like a kid, it is 100% this like baby that you're like, Alright, what are we gonna do today? And what needs to be finessed? And okay, everything's gonna be fine, it's gonna be fine. And let's feed it and grow it and so true. And so it was really, it was fascinating for me to actually surrender to that, and just trust in what, where am I kids at where's my business at where we're at, and just trust that when I felt to be, you know, more present with the kids, I would be, and vice versa. And, and that felt good when I got to that point of stead of kit, because if we're carrying guilt and shame, you're actually not available to really tap into feeling when you know, you're getting pulled into one thing or another. I don't know. And, you know, making there's that part when since you brought up the was the book you just mentioned that in the game of life. Yeah. I love she says a statement in there something about it's similar to what you said, Of let go and let God and it's kind of that an affirmation? Yeah, I don't think God and guilt can live in the same space. So when I agree with guilt, you have to release that guilt to let God in. And that is just a simple tool that I think has worked wonders for me. Well, 100%, because if you're sitting there and you're creating, it's like you're talking about with the frequency, if your frequency is only it's focused on how the lack the not good enough the shame, the guilt, there is no room and that for anything that doesn't meet that vibration, and God source, whatever you want to call that. Whatever the higher thing is for you. It it can't come in, if you're in that if you're in that frequency. It's not there's no space. Well, and even you had alluded earlier earlier to you know, everything kind of works out with your kids. I mean, I remember when Courtney, when all that happened with my daughter, Courtney. I mean, Amanda had just started working from home. Yeah, that was not that was a crazy career path. I mean, talk about a pivot. I mean, I had 70 employees, I was working at my office in Provo leaving was not an option. When that pivot happened for me. And I was home. I was home. Yeah, for her. I know that that was divine. Okay, I learned that I was working from my house. My husband and I together, which previously for 20 years had not been my career path. Wow. That's been I mean, it had shifted from not being at home, to being at home full time. Yeah. And interestingly enough, my youngest, that's what he knows more now, because we've worked from home now for seven years. So when he got home from school, he would call and say, where are you? Oh, funny. So it's such a dynamic shift. No kidding. From when my oldest was that age to when my youngest was, you know, you're not home? Where are you? It's just so it's interesting, that dynamic, interesting change? Oh, yes. Trusting following that? And looking back and going, Ah, that was so perfect for me. Right. And also, you know, some of those things that maybe it were the shame and guilt was that I should have cut or whatever you should all over yourselves. We talked about that before. Yeah. And letting go of that. Because trusting that it wasn't broken. It didn't need to be fixed. It was exactly how it was meant to be. And I'm a stronger, more dynamic person, it built character in me it built character, my kids, right, because of that, whatever that was, yeah. You know, so yeah, that was hard at the time. And as we're moving through it, while I'm so grateful that that happened? No, because I wouldn't have the empathy or the experience here. Now, in this moment. I know when I in 2019, I was going through i'd hired a coach because I was I was working towards adding new new aspects to my business and growing that side, I had hired a coach and one of the things that that's funny that I'm sharing this, one of the things that she said is I want you to only do three things every day now outside of picking up kids or like the Aaron's with it when it comes to work. Only three things for the next I think it was three weeks, maybe it was a month. And as a business owner. You know how hard that was? I'm like, three, no, three minutes, usually. Right. And it was really interesting, and I think After doing a week, it was one week of that all of a sudden, I got the huge knowing that it was a big when you get those knowings, you get those knowings. It came in so strongly, it's time to close your doors. And we had been in the quote, I ran a clothing business called mopod for 12 years. And it's a challenging business to be in for. I mean, that's a whole other podcast. But it was also beautiful business, I loved it. And getting that clear, like, Okay, it's time it's time to close the doors was like, wait, what, and it was not signed his time shot. And even my husband was like, it was really painful for him when I said it's time to close our doors, and COVID happened the next year. And again, it was one of those I had that instant, knowing that I know later I'll be able to look back and go, this is why and this is why this timing. And it was like we were sitting in 2020. And going this is there's no, I cannot tell you how stressed out I would be had I had the business that I had, and trying to deal with this whole Good God. And it was I was so grateful that I listened that I got that clear intuition. So similar to you. I know we're talking about kids. But that reminded me of that piece too. There's many times in my life where it's like you get that clear knowing and then you look back and go, Oh, this is why Absolutely. I remember similar when I left check net. And we had made the family decision to transition. I mean, I just remember just sobbing and being so sad that that was it. Even though I didn't understand why that needed to happen. There was just that knowing right, I needed that pivot, even though it was hard. Yeah, I look back and think wow, that I'm so grateful that I listened to my intuition. Even though it didn't I didn't understand it. Right. So you did the same thing. Yeah, I didn't realize it was just right before COVID 13? No, well, no, yeah. Good for you. And I think the other thing too, that's coming up for me that I want to share is I think that as moms as business owners as friends, wives, humans, yeah, I mean, if our intention, I mean, you never really know how something's going to be perceived, or that experience is going to be and especially as a mom, as a leader, you know, you're managing a team. It's all about intention to and that love peace. Now, I want to share that because I really think that love is, it really is everything. And that unconditional peace as a mom, because when I was younger, I remember people would say, Oh, you know, I love you unconditionally. And honestly, my experience as a child, is there any other kind? Yeah, I kind of laughed at the whole concept of unconditional love. Because I really, from my experience was that there's only that's what it is. That's there's only that kind. Yeah. And I learned later on from other experiences with family members or whoever that Oh, yes, there is a different kind of love, there is a level with condition. And I will love you if and only if you do these things where manipulation, or those kinds of things come in and pivot. And I think as a mom, if if our intention is coming from a place of love, we might not always get it right. But again, what is right, what is perfect, it's all divinely guided all of it. So if our intention comes from a place of love, and then it then it should, it always will work out for the greater good 100%. And it's something that I always like to share with people, as you're always on your right path, I don't care where you are on that path, you're always on the right path, because it's exactly, it's exactly perfect. If, if you're in a shitty position right now. It's, it's 100% what your soul is asking to learn. And like my example until you learn whatever that is, and understand what that is that needs to be shifted within you, whatever that belief is, you'll keep attracting that same thing. It just is what it is. It's what your soul signed up for. And I do want to offer that these some of these are, I understand. And I know Jessica understands this too, as we're saying, letting go of shame, letting go of guilt, understanding your human, all these things, we know that it's a lot easier said than done. Like I said before, going in and looking at those shadow places is painful. And there are so many people out there that can assist you in that process. And you know if this is something that you're like, and I guess I have all this and I don't know what to do, or I don't know where to go. And we can again go to our Facebook page maybe we'll have an open conversation after this podcast releases and or message Jessica and I we both have a network of just amazing people that you know, I personally work with when I'm wanting to work with something I know you do, too. And Jessica and I of course both have tools to be able to assist people in, in moving through whatever it is that they're moving through in life and sometimes and and this is where energetics because I'm such a huge believer in it energetics are so powerful. When we could let go and have somebody assist us and moving that energy out. It will create space, you know for something else to come in so well and it's so true to even like my husband does Reiki and you know people are like, Oh, it's so much better. What did you do? Internal You did it, I held space for you, oh yeah, you did it, you healed yourself, your body knows exactly what you need to do. So we have tools that we coach people through. And we both had coaches, I think, if a good takeaway would be to write down some limiting beliefs that you have about yourself, you know, write them down I am, whatever they are, I am not enough, or I'm a procrastinator, whatever those limiting beliefs are, like, be honest with yourself and write them down and get them out, and then flip the switch and have a new thought pattern that follows that I am enough, I am more than enough. I am a mover and shaker I, I get things done. So that could be a really, like you said, we're not simplifying the whole process of working through those shadows. And you are the one that can make the shift, whether you are the only one that will make the shift, right? Because it's all and it does start with the word. That's why I really felt strongly about writing down your limiting beliefs. Like what what is that storytelling? Because think about you're driving around, and you have thoughts all the time. And you're you're beating yourself up, Oh, I should have done this, I forgot to call him or I need to get this done, you know, that happens to me is I'm just driving all the things that may be out there my to do list in my head. And so those limiting beliefs creep in. For me, even if I'm coaching people, I have limiting beliefs. Well, the the and I think writing it down is helpful, I would recommend burning it actually because it transmits the energy. But also Joe dispenza talks about because there are neural pathways that have been formed. And oftentimes, this goes, there's several branches that this goes into the neural pathways have been formed with whatever that limiting belief is. And it's usually because there's a route that started at there is the core of what started it. So a shaman can help you with that or somebody that studies NLP or hypnotherapy, those people can help you go to the core of whatever that is, because really, we can try and reprogram. And unless you're super consistent with this, it's very difficult to do until you learn and understand what the learning wants from that limiting belief that started in the first place. Does it make sense? Absolutely. So Joe dispenza, will say Stop, stop. Now, when that thought comes in, he'll actually say to say it out loud to assist with rewiring the neural pathways. Now, if you don't know what neural pathways are, I like to think about it. These are neural pathways in the brain, that I like to think like a road, when you first start having a habit or a thought that comes in, it's like a really tiny dirt road or like a, let's say a hiking trail, or the animal trail, right. And the more you think that or the more you continue that pattern, It then goes from that little tiny trial to a little bit of a wider trail to then a small paved little rural road road to then a two lane highway to then a four lane highway. And so it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, the more you feed it, and you naturally start going there. Because, yes, it's the pattern. And that's why it's the whole 30 days to break a pattern. It's the neural pathways that you're changing. And so the questions that I referred to earlier that I found on my phone, because I'm like, ah, sometimes I forget them the questions to ask that I think are extremely helpful. When did you decide that? Or when did you start believing that? So you have a limiting belief, this will assist in finding yourself being able to work through this? And this is a good journal exercise to When did you decide that when? Or when did you start believing that? And what is the learning that will release that belief? So what did you learn? What did you grow? That will help with releasing that belief? And then what do you want instead? Or what is the new belief you want to have? And I feel like that goes deeper into Okay, here's the limiting belief to maybe stick with one right? Go into When did I start believing that? Because then that will go to the core? Oh my gosh, it is as there's something that happened when I was three, I remember my mom, whatever it is, and what is it that that if you knew that learning would allow your subconscious mind to actually let go of that limiting belief? What did you learn? What do you grow? And then what do you want to hold instead? And you probably couldn't have learned that had you not handle 100%? Or that darkness or that shadow yourself? That is the only reason why we go through. That's the only reason why we go through these things. It is it's all learning. It's all for us. That's the thing. It's all 100% for us. That's the kicker. It's funny that you're sharing that because if you follow me on Instagram or listeners, I love quotes. Yeah. And so I had a neighbor and I'm going to share this because it's like perfect, divinely guided. She said I heard this quote today and I thought of you and your loveliness. I hope you have a good day. The quote reads, in many shamanic societies, if you come to a shaman or a medicine person complaining of being disheartened, dispirited or depressed, they would ask you one or four questions. When did you stop dancing? When did you stop singing when you just stopped being enchanted by stories? And when did you stop finding comfort in the sweet territory of silence? Beautiful. Yeah, very similar, very similar to what you're sharing. So it's interesting that my neighbor just shared that with me this morning. That's super cool. And you know, that is a question that I you know, what, what do you sing about? What do you dance about? There's four questions that I like to ask people. And that's similar to Yeah, it's usually I mean, most adults would say nothing, nothing, nothing would you sing to what do you dance about? And when you cry about what do you laugh about? motherhood can be answered all things, right? Being a leader, being a mother, whatever, bring a spouse, yes, I can sing, I can dance, I can cry, and I can laugh about all of those things. And that is really where I think true depth is experienced. Yeah. And we talked about that, I think in one of the podcasts about the pendulum, that I believe that, you know, the pendulum swings, those high highs of joy, and those low lows of sadness or sorrow. It just kind of, I had a friend recently, I was coaching him through just he was just really struggling. And he was like, I've never felt so angry. I've never felt so low. And he had recently fell in love. And he's, he's been quite smitten. So I had asked him, I said, Do you think it's fair to say, that maybe you've never loved so deeply, therefore, you've never been so sad and dealt with the loss and the grief that you've experienced in your past? And he just looked at me like, Oh, shit, I think you're right now. But it was such a great realization for him. He's like, I've never felt this way. And I'm like, and I've never felt so low. And I said, and I've never seen you so in love and so happy, right? So honor that, you know, think of how happy and joyful you are with this newfound love. And it's okay to be sad and have sorrow from these past heartaches and losing someone that you love to such a young age that maybe you didn't, you haven't really like worked through it. And now you have that experience of like, high highs and those low lows and the beauty that comes in, in that present moment of all of it. I think we often forget that there are natural laws of this planet that we live in, and one of the natural laws of the law of paradox. And what you're saying because the are up duality, not paradox. Sorry, I've wrote about paradox today. That's why and to me, they're actually really similar. But duality to where when you experience the highest highs, you also will experience the lowest lows, because it is just part of the whole light, dark, Shadow, light, same shadow light. But it is you can't you know, knowing you only know the one when you know the other. And you can only go as far as in the one if you go too far. As far as the other some of the people that have had when they think they've hit their bottom. Usually there is a little bit further. He was just talking about I'm like, Oh, do you think this is your body? Yes, I sure hope to hell, this is my bottom. And it's like, you know, it's if you've hit bottom and you know those pains, you also know if you've gotten out of that how high then you get to swing, which then our key is when we go through and we experience those highest highs and those lowest lows, where we get to now start walking in that third way, that middle way where we get to go walk through the bit, the the third path are standing in the middle of a circle, Holly and I like talking about it a lot. We're standing in the middle of a circle, because in shamanism, you have a will. That's all transformation, the northeast of Southwest. And so we actually go through a whole year process. That's the medicine while we're you're traveling through the will. And a lot of people and a lot of healers or a lot of anybody that's into self help will actually get addicted to moving around the will constantly having to transform something, transmute something, what needs to be looked at what needs to be healed, and constantly doing that process so that you're actually never in the middle the center of the will. And getting to a point then where you're so neutral on that I have the tornado, that while things are going to come up because they will, you're now starting to walk a third way, the middle path that allows you to go Yes, this is happening. And I can work it quicker. And I cannot be as attached to it as I used to be because I know what that feels like. I've learned what I needed to learn from there from those places. And I get to go down this middle path of working things quicker and not being so attached. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think not attaching to it. Like you're saying, you know, it's just information. The only thing that the reason why we have disappointment or sorrow in our life is because of attachment. If we truly had non attachment and we live from that place, it would not we would not suffer. We would not suffer attachment expectation. Right? Yeah, setting yourself up for something that is least you've to fail or someone else to fail in your life, the expectation or the attachment of what it should look like as opposed to in the present moment. It's exactly as it's supposed to be. Yeah. And honoring that. Man again. I feel like we've talked about so many different things again in this podcast. I hope this hasn't fell over. whelming but I hope that really, I think the beautiful thing about what Jessica and I are learning is the feedback that we keep getting is that it's comfortable listening to us, which I love. That's an interest. You know, they people are saying that they feel like they're sitting with us, which is actually a really beautiful compliment for me, and I'm sure you felt the same way I did. I do been like a really cool, it's easy to listen to, I feel like I'm sitting, sitting with you. And, and so if that's the case, then all of you are sitting here in this room, and one of you needed to hear about parenthood and letting go of shame and other talking about duality. And another one, you know, well, again, it goes back to the whole point of our purpose, podcasts, what is personal is universal 100% and resonating, whatever that is resonating in a small way, in a big way. And all of the things we've talked about and and maybe none of them resonate with you and they are triggering you and you're and you're not enjoying it, what is it about it that you're not enjoying and going within and saying, I'm I can't leave they said that I'm unhappy about that. And that is to go within and I go What is that? You know, and that kind of like? Yeah, I think is a fabulous tool that maybe we can share with others. Oh, when we wanted to. I think we're coming to an end, making sure that we asked you guys to leave us a review on Apple or pod chaser. Those are the two places that you can leave reviews. But it is said it assists us in growing growing the podcast so we're asking for you to leave us a positive a five star positive review for our podcast is to assist us in in growing this we would be so grateful. And until next time, we'll decide what next week's conversation will be about who knows. In fact, if there are topics that you would love or you're curious or questions again, catch us on Facebook join the conversation there or message us individually I know my my Instagram that I seem to be on a little bit more as Amanda joy Loveland. And yours is Jessica dot Lee dot devenish. Well, mine's Amanda dot joy, Donna Lynn, but I figured that I can find ways to be so like, Jessica Lee Lee daanish on Instagram. Yeah, okay. Yeah, come find us like two but a little more. maiden name Jessica Carnesecca. come find us. We're here. Sending everyone so much love from our heart to yours. We hope you're having a beautiful day and may you find some little treasure or nugget today that feeds your soul. Thank you for joining the conversation today. We hope that something we said sparked your curiosity to further your growth. Only you know what is meant for you. So let's continue the conversation and follow us on our Facebook page at what is personal is universal. We'll see you there.