23. Gratitude.

Amanda and Jessica wrap up season one with this final episode, all about Gratitude.

As they both hold gratitude in high regard in the work they do and the world as they see it. In this episode they share the beauty that living from place of gratitude can offer your world.

When we start looking at life with the lens of "where can I find gratitude?" and holding that intention in the moments of our life; both the brilliant bright ones and the hard ones as we navigate through ... that is when experiential wisdom unfolds.

Gratitude and love live on the same frequency and when you feel one you attract the other.  The God connection is expanded from a place of gratitude.

Thank you for being here with us, we send you so much love and look forward to seeing in Season Two.

Where can you connect with us:
Instagram:
@amanda.joy.loveland
@jessica.lee.devenish

Facebook:
Amanda Joy Loveland
Jessica Carnesecca Devenish
Group: What is personal is universal

Website:
www.amandajoyloveland.com
www.devenishduo.com

Amandas Podcast:
Leaving Religion found on spotify and apple

Transcript

Unknown: 0:05

Hi there, we know that what is personal is universal. I am Amanda Loveland. And I am Jessica devenish. Welcome to the conversation. Here we are, what is the final episode of season one? I think it's Episode 2324 is Episode 24. I think I maybe. I don't know. But either way, it's the final episode of season one. kind of crazy. I know. kind of crazy and super cool, right? But yeah, I gotta find out I have to find. So when we started we Oh, this will be Episode 23. I was wrong. Oh, very nice. Awesome. For some reason, I kind of had 25 in mind. I don't know why. I don't know why we just knew it would kind of like, yeah, show up, however. So Amanda will be heading up her other podcast full time now. And then I will take over this one, I presume I will keep it the same name. Maybe just you came up with the title. So it makes sense for you to keep that and it's a good name. I'll rebrand it probably a little bit and restart recording season two. And I don't know what I was doing soon at the beginning of the year, maybe December? I don't know. Yeah. take a little break. And I'm excited. And thank you for inviting me to do this podcast. Well, it's fun when we collaborate and get together and then have these fun conversations and run into people that don't know us, but then are like, Hey, I listened to you on your podcast. Right? Yeah. That's so fun. Yeah, podcast, I found to be interesting, because if you post something on social media, they like it, or they reply to it. So you're well aware of who is participating. Right. But on podcast, you have no idea. who's listening. I mean, you can see the number of downloads, but you don't know anything. Right? So it's interesting when somebody will say something about my podcast, and I'm having Oh, wow, you listen, you're like, surprised. So I think that's, that's interesting about podcasts. Yeah, it is. super interesting. And like, I'm, I'm worried that Mike's a little too far away for your face. Is that better? Yeah. So today, you want to talk about gratitude? I do. Yeah, I do. It's interesting. We've never talked about gratitude. Since it's such a foundation of like, my life. And and where I coach and how I teach and how I live. When did it become a foundation of your life? It's probably been four years. 16? I would think, yeah. And then gradually just kind of grown. How did it come to me? You did it just come in? Or did? Did you have a coach or something that? Well, I started Angie smart. I was already kind of practicing gratitude. And then when I started working with Angie smart, that was why I was drawn to her is because their first 30 days of coaching, when she was with her previous company was gratitude. So that kind of drew me to her. Yeah. And then of course, she just taught me so many other things since then. But gratitude, I feel like it's just it's one of those staple foundational pieces for any type of healing and happy life. And yeah, and I think this morning, I was feeling into it. It's like for me when I gratitude puts us in the heart, right. And when they if you've ever heard there's these cameras, I don't even know what they're called. But they will take pictures of your aura, which is your energetic field that we all admit. And these cameras that capture that when they're, they'll put someone through different emotions and their aura will change how far out it goes from the body. Well, when the heart goes into lover to gratitude, it goes out beyond the room, it gets massive. So it's always been fascinating to me how especially in the heart space and those different emotions or those different thoughts that will put us into the heart space are such a man like it's such a magnifying emotion and feeling that happens and the ripple effect that happens from there is is quite fascinating. Well, I totally agree. I think we talked about this once before those little copper rods Oh yeah, the divining rods Yeah, yeah, so I mean, we've done exercises where there's a group of people in a room and when the when Amanda walks in, everyone says he says don't look at her, just like she's not in the room and just ignore her right? And it's interesting when you're holding those rods like they just stay close. But when you do the opposite, like if everyone is going to show Amanda love and gratitude that she's here, when Amanda walks in the room, those rods go wide open. So there is an energetic Oh yeah. emotional experience that happens when you live from gratitude. Just generally, and gratitude. I mean, it can be really simple. I think when I first started it before I started up with energy smart. It was more like Hey, I'm acting from a place of gratitude more often just literally being in awareness of how often I may be getting frustrated, as opposed to being grateful if something frustrates me, right, so how do you find a gratitude in something that's frustrating? Well, it's a learned habit. Gratitude is more affirming. Now, it's like a, it's like a state of being more than just a an emotion, wouldn't you say? Yeah. So before you're like, wow, that really hurts. I'm really frustrated about that. And big breath. The pause relieves the pause for me the pause of Okay, wow, how is a crappy thing to say? And they just kind of like, like we talked about before, where the clouds just kind of come in and go now just kind of goes in and you does, you don't take it on, you don't absorb it. Because really, who knows what the other person is even going through their comment may or may not have anything to do with you. Yeah, so being in gratitude, really, I think there's awareness, then there's just empathy. Like, of meeting the other person, wherever they are, yeah, like what's going on? My mind? Are you okay? Today, like, you know, kind of checking in with the other person, or maybe just letting it roll off and not taking it. I mean, it's taken me 30 years with some people, I'm not gonna say names. This is some people that this incessant incessant experience with this person that I'm, they're never going to make me smile, I'm never gonna make them smile. There's just something about this person that we don't bring out the best in each other. And finally, accepting the fact that that really has nothing to do with me. Well, then there's the gratitude that you can find in any circumstance for what's the learning? What do I get to lean into with each experience? Or what is it that it's showing me so if there's someone that's showing up and being a total asshole, hey, I'm actually really grateful that they're showing me who they really are. Because I would rather not have a relationship with that person. You know, so there's always I feel like something to find gratitude in. And in fact, this reminds me of a quote, I was listening, I don't remember where I heard it, but I had to write it down really quick, oh, it was the truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, is that not perfect for anything, you get triggered, you know, and you get to look at whatever's going on inside or even these moments. And there's gratitude in that. Because every time if we lean into it, there's growth that can happen. And in that, you know, I'm always grateful for, even though there's some really painful, painful experiences, right? You know, right, I agree with you, too. And when you say that about friends, I've had lots of friends over the years where maybe I didn't react the way I do now, if they do something that is hurtful, I'm really grateful. Now, I can say, stand in my power, and say thank you for showing me who you truly are. Now, I said, Thank you for showing up as your authentic self, because I know and recognize that maybe my relationship with you is going to be a little more distant or a little more different, or I'm going to choose differently with you. And I'm grateful that they showed me that right earlier on, then maybe later. So I think just inherently my response, my reaction, my perspective, my awareness, my empathy for where they are, has shifted immensely, because I live from a place of gratitude. When I think too, that puts us in an A, when we start looking at things from a unawareness of work. And I find gratitude in this moment, we start popping out a little bit more of the everything is so personal, everything is so personal. And it isn't to what you're saying. And maybe it has nothing to do with you. And they're showing up in how, how they are wanting to show up. And I think when we start pulling out of the attachment to how things should be, and letting people just be themselves. I know for me, I had a really challenging experience with someone that I had known for years and years and years. And we had talked about doing a business together. And as we were kind of starting to navigate some of these pieces, you could already tell there was some like, okay, maybe just harmony in how we both operate. And so it was kind of suggested, Hey, why don't we try and do these few events together. And then let's see. And I was really grateful that we did those events, because what transpired Next, I mean, I cannot tell you the amount of pain and oddness and weirdness that transpired within the next several months I mean, almost a year. And looking back at it, it while it was so painful, I was so grateful because it's like I can't imagine doing what I was going to do with this this person in my life versus where I'm at now. And so I'm so grateful that the universe showed up for me in that way, you know, or Yeah, gave you that experience before you really took another step in Yeah, yeah. Well, and it is, I mean, some people might say it's corny to say you know what's not happening to you, it's happening for you or through you, but 100% that is like, so spot on. Like those moments where you really got your ass kicked or something Really bad happened. You're like, Oh, so grateful that I really got to know who they were I got to experience that, I got to know that I got to pivot, I got to go a different direction, because that's not in alignment with now. And I think when we get to that place where we're more of observance, because we are and we do have an awareness that this is all happening for me. So what is what is showing up for me right now? is it's a huge gift to be able to have that perspective, because then we're not so attached to things, and it's not as painful. Well, and what if the other person's honestly doing the best they can with what they know, or what they have? Or what they're going through? What if that person showing up for you, in whatever facet it is, even if it might be a hurtful situation? That might be the best they have to offer? Right? Yep. And so showing gratitude in that sometimes is just as graceful as anything else. You know, when I love I think it was when we interviewed and yeah, Angie was on our podcast, I'm like, but I loved her. She talked about I think it was on that one where she talked about gratitude actually bounces right in the left hemisphere in the brain. What do you think is a really powerful tool, you know, with gratitude, having gratitude that it balances both, it's like, that's a really beautiful place to move from in the world. Because when we're, you know, one side or the other, more, you know, for more submissive and more feminine and more docile, we probably don't have very many boundaries, or for more masculine, we're trampling over people. I mean, I'm using very extreme examples. But yeah, I think it's really beautiful, especially if you're trying to have more balance in the feminine or in the masculine. How cool is that? That maybe even just practicing gratitude every day could bring more of that into balance. And that's a really simple practice. It is a simple practice. And I think that's why some people get tripped up. How can you be so profound? If it's so simple? Yeah, yeah, those are the most profound things that I've ever experienced are the simple ones. Love, like you said, coming from a place of love coming from place of gratitude. But now how can it be manda that's too simple? Well, because that is just the way that I think God intended. All those simple things are really the big things. The profound ones, one, why do we want to complicate everything? Why does it have to be so much more complicated than just what is? Like we can have simplicity in life? And yeah, because we as humans come in, and we're like, there has to be weight. That was bad one time. And so you naturally associate that with something bad? Like, what what it is, life is just as simple as us just having experience. That's it. That's it. And what do you want to do with it? Well, I was working with a client last week, and she was saying that she really wanted a new job. She was upset with her husband, she was frustrated with her daughter, and she just, she had already changed jobs twice this year. So I finally just said, because I hadn't I've been working with her for the whole year. But I just said, What? What is it that you're looking for? Because I don't know that what you're looking for is going to be found in the jobs, right? Or your or your husband? Or your daughter? Does she even know what she's looking for me? It's you, maybe you need to start here, right? Because you can find a different job. Really, that's just location. That's just geography, that's just better, you can keep changing jobs every month. If nothing inside changes, right? You're never gonna find whatever it is. Yeah, let's define what are you looking for? What is it about job? Number one you didn't like? job number two? Like what? What is it? Yeah, what is it that you're looking to maybe be fulfilled? Right? Or is what hole? Are you trying to fill by things on the outside of you? Because obviously, it's not working? Well. And I think we tend to sometimes, especially with today's world, focus on what's not working, instead of what is working. So we kind of stripped it down and said, Okay, what is working with your husband? What is working with your daughter? Right? What is it about job number one or job number two that you liked? And she really, I think she'd been in such a place of disgust and anger and frustration that coming from a place of what it is that I do? She needs because she only knew what she didn't want, right? Okay, you already know what you don't want. What do you want? Her eyes? were like, I don't even know the answer to your question. Because she's, I haven't thought about what I do want for so long. I just know what I don't want. So that is a really interesting paradigm shift. If you can come from that place, and that starts with gratitude. What do you want? And what are you grateful for and what you already have? Why this is a beautiful example of So, so often in our lives, and then we know that we need to know these people. And maybe you're one of these people that you're so rundown with all the woes of the world and all the woes of your life that you cannot see anything beyond that, like it's just that's your world, and that's what you've created. And that's the thing is is that is 100% what you've created or what these people have created. And the beautiful thing is, it's just one thought, one really beautiful, eloquent thought or question of what do I want? What does make me happy? What does Like me at what makes me feel good and grateful. And, you know, it's like making taking time for that to shift that paradigm of not everything has to be shitty. It's all about perspective. Yeah. 100% every time, which again, that seems too simple. First, there's an awareness, right? I always encourage people to say, okay, just be aware of words that are coming out of your mouth, for the next week. Like, just be aware of the little the limiting, limiting beliefs and the limitations that you're expressing on a regular daily basis that are coming out of your mouth. And that awareness in and of itself, I think, to most people, it's a little shocking when you agree. They're like, wow, I do say, Don't a lot, or I can't, or I try, or I'm whatever, right, right, that awareness of the words coming out of your mouth. Mm hmm. That in and of itself is a perspective that you should probably start with. While and we keep talking about how you know, it's simple, so it can't be true, it's like actually, in the simplicity, when we come to the simple simplicity of any situation, that's usually where the piece is found. It's always where the piece is found, at least for me. You know, I'm rewriting this book that I published and then took down and it's really interesting going back through and this books around all my relationships, right. And in some ways, it's challenging to read through it, although there's a different level of where I'm at in my life now, from where I wrote it before, but you know, we all make these choices in life. And then at the end of the day, the only reason why we're making these choices and the only reason why these things are happening to us is for our learning and our growth every single time. There is something in there that's asking for us to be broken through unless we want to shut off but going back to that gratitude piece man, Travis and I think we shared this on another episode. But trav my husband, he was in a really dark place. So yeah, we and I did this I think when I shared it before Trevor had a challenging childhood and has had a challenging life. And he could be one of those people that we're talking about that everything just shitty, just crappy blah blah, he went hunting the other day. This is my husband my husband loves to hunt and he has had stories of just crappy hunting and great stories too. But here he goes, he's off by himself his son can't go because he got injured in football he loves hunting with his kids so again, it's like this okay, but I'm still gonna go cuz I really love to do it. And he's going up the mountain whatever He hears this bugle that's just huge and amazing and close and I'm not a hunter so you can tell by the way that I'm talking about this You're doing great. So as he goes up, I'm going to shorten the story he has three opportunities to shoot this huge ball huge ball and like not just he knows he would get the shot. And every time he goes in three different spots By the way, every time he goes to pull the trigger click the bullet doesn't fire so he takes it out puts another you know cartridge and the bullet in doesn't fire click, and he's like, and he's hiking down the mountain I need help. I'm like, well, honey, three times, like usually three, three is a significant number when something happens three times that's a it's not just random, like there's something here to pay attention to. And I said so maybe there's a message in this for you maybe you should kind of check into that. And he goes the whole way down the mountain I'm like if Amanda tells me there's some learning in this I'm gonna lose my shit. But that's kind of a side little story. But he was in a really dark place for a little while and he was doing some different things different working with some different people. But he started at night before you go to bed go through everything he was granted a grateful for putting his hands on his heart and going through everything he was grateful for. And for him, that was what shifted everything. And shortly after that, this thing that like a lot of things started coming in for him. So it's you know, while it's simple, it the magnitude of what can happen is powerful. I agree. I love that he did that. I think that's awesome. Yeah. Well, and I always encouraged gratitude journals, like we all have, I love to journal a gratitude journal, I think in and of itself is powerful. Yeah. gratitude. And if you don't know what to journal about why people say I don't even know where to start. Well, are you thankful for a person a place or a thing that you can be grateful for a thing in my car? You got a roof over your head? Cold water, hot water, running water? How about fresh? I mean, there's millions of people that will never experience running water. I mean, it could be it could be that. Yeah, it could be. So I just encourage people to first start with awareness what's coming out of your mouth, and then do a gratitude journal, person place or thing while we don't know what else to see? Yeah. And I felt like the more you do this, the more you're for me. I noticed the beauty of the world shifts. Do you notice this like all of a sudden he's just like, wow Like the sunsets are more beautiful and the mountains are more stunning, and there's just more moments in your life that just kind of take your breath away. Well, it's kind of like, somebody turned the color on, like, everything's more vibrant. Everything resonates like a higher vibration. higher frequency. Yeah. And it just Phil's just even being out in nature, the green on the trees, or the green on the grass or the flowers. I mean, I was talking about sunflowers earlier this year. And I said to Kelly, I'm like, my husband, I said, they're just more sunflowers this year, or is it just my awareness is inherently different. And I thought it was maybe my awareness until I walked on my walking trail that I've done for years, and I'm like, aha, there really is more sunflowers than But again, it's probably both it probably is. But it's interesting that I'm, I think that is a beautiful place to come from gratitude. Are you aware of it? Was it there before? Are you just now seeing things from a different like perspective? different lens? And do smart always talks about lenses? Like just what what color rose colored glasses? Are you looking through? Or? Or is everything black and white? Or is everything dim? Yeah, like where are you? What are you seeing? What are you the lens? What lenses are you seeing? Yeah, for me, I had a huge paradigm with going through shamanism, that's where my, like perspective was everything all of a sudden, I know it was actually going through the triangle of disempowerment going through the drama triangle, and we did some actual somatic experiences. And that was such a huge paradigm shift where I could see things from a totally new perspective. And, man, that changed my world. In a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful way. So if you ever come to any of our retreats, I almost always do triangle work, because it's powerful. How are you playing out in the triangle? Because we all do it well, and what role Are you playing? If there is a situation that you're not happy with? What role Are you playing? Yeah. Victim perpetrator, rescuer if you're not familiar with the drama triangle? Yeah, it has two names. Right, the drama triangle and the triangle of disempowerment. Okay. Yeah, I've heard it as both. But I noticed too, when I, when I am in more of a place of gratitude, there's more things in my world to be grateful for. All of a sudden, you're like, wow, this showed up for me. And wow, this showed up for me. And when I was leaving religion, and I don't know why this is popping in me, you know, when you leave religion, it's, it can be a challenging place. But I was so centered and very calm with this decision. And so I was very heart centered in my choice. And so I seem to be moving through the world in that way. But I would have moments to where you feel really alone. And I was kind of starting to dabble more in the spiritual world. And so I get my first tarot deck, which, you know, that is a big No, no, in Mormon land. So it's like, Oh, here we go. And oh, my gosh, then messages that I would get, like, the little things that I would start receiving was such a, you're not alone, like, to so many moments for me to be grateful for my experience that I was going through, that it made it easier to move through, you know, that goes back to awareness, right? Being aware of those things popping in. Now 100%? Well, I think, I mean, we it's cliche, you know, where your focus goes, grows. But I think like, where they're going weeds are, we're going flowers, just like I teach people, if I'm working with a business executive about culture, you're planting something something's happening here, right? Which is it? Because you get, you get to decide. And you're either doing it consciously or subconsciously. So are you fertilizing those things? Because if a flower is not growing, you're not saying something's wrong with the flower, you're saying something's wrong with the soil, something's wrong with the environment around it. So I think if we simplified life, if something's not working, right, the flower in and of ourselves before the flower, and that was Nothing's wrong with us, just how can we change the soil? How can rain fertilize something differently? Maybe we need more water, or maybe we need more satellizer son or something in the environment needs to change. It could be as simple as saying thank you, to your children for emptying the dishwasher. Oh, yeah, saying thank you for picking up your shoes saying thank you for making your bed. Things that maybe frustrated you before and now they're doing it? Did you did you notice that they did it? And did you say thank you this time? Or are you only noticing it when they don't do it? And that can create a really negative culture in your family environment too. Because as parents, we kind of set the tone. Not kinda we do what isn't what would piss me off and it's not the case as much anymore. But when my kids were young, if I was having a bad day, my kids were terrors. And it was like, What in the hell? It's like, oh, because they're feeding off mom's energy. She's grumpy so everybody's gonna be grumpy. And it's like, no, I need you guys all to be happy because I'm grumpy and I mean, my moment it was like what in the crap? I always that frustrates me all the time. When I was trying To be the best mom and I was like, Who doesn't want to be left alone today? You're gonna get put yourself in timeout. Mom timeout. Yeah, I've done that before. But that I mean, even as you're saying that it's like, that's something where my husband is very much, he leaves me notes and things all the time. And he loves to give. But his thing is, is that appreciation, he wants to know that he's appreciated. And I'm not always the the best at that. But I think with any person, I don't care who you are. And when you're talking about your kids, or your partner, or even your employees that that simple act of just Hey, thank you for taking, you know, thank you for doing that. Thanks for making the bed. Thanks for whatever it is, especially with our kids, the more we do that and acknowledge them, the more they're actually willing and wanting to do more of those things. So Well, I think those of us that are perfectionist like they do it, but then it's not quite the way you would have done. So then you find yourself Well, that's great. And or that's great, but right, so then they're like, well, I don't even do that anymore, because it's never right. What's the point where you're creating that culture, too? And like it starts with us? Yeah. So I'm grateful that you made your bed, and I wish you would have done a little better. Yeah, I mean, what what are the words coming out of your mouth? Yeah. I mean, I've caught myself doing that. Thank you for doing your laundry. And did you really just shove it into the basket? Yeah, I should have just stopped. Thank you for doing your laundry. Right Period. End of story. Yeah, he did it. He did it his way. Am I not been mom's way. But guess what, if he did it, and I walked in the laundry room, and there's clothes all over, I just take a big deep breath. He did laundry. Yay. Yeah. adamant about me talking about that I really, really, really, really, really want to say something right now. It's so true. It's so true. But I think it's just being aware. And that perspective is pretty critical. Yeah. I had, you know, it's, it's, it's fascinating, really how the act of gratitude affects so many different facets of our life, you know, from the simple things every day of everything that we're talking about to even on the larger scale of can we look back at our life and recognize everything was exactly as it should have been. And I think that that is one of the more challenging things, especially if you've been through traumatic, challenging hardships in life. And I had, I had done a video a few days ago about how we're always on our right path. I think a lot of times and I know I was in this place several years ago of worrying and being worried or afraid that I wasn't on my right path, right of making the right decisions. And I had someone say to me, you're always on your right path, why would you ever question and it hit me pretty hard. And I've had a few people in my world right now that are going through something similar. And so I shared this video and, you know, I'm on Instagram and trying to do you know, it's part of my business. So it's like, I guess I'm gonna do a real and I have 30 seconds to do a real so I hurry up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And when a guy posted, and said, Man, this is a really broad statement, and I don't agree with you. And essentially, he shares that he used to be a coke addict. And had I listened to this video when I was on coke. This would have completely I can't remember how he put it, but would not have been good for him. And, and it was an interesting, and I thought about that for a minute. It's like no, I still agree that no matter where you are in your life, you're on some level, you've chosen that experience. You know, and, and I think with anything, even in that experience of being a coke addict, he's now three years sober. I am certain there are things that he learned in that experience, he probably has more empathy for people going through challenging times. And I'm sure he has a vast list of things that he learned through going through that, that only through that experience would he have gained. And in that there's immense gratitude. Yeah, that only comes from hindsight, though, right? I mean, in the moment in the thick of it. Oh, yeah. In the fire. He's certainly a forest for the trees, he probably would have saw your comment and just rolled his eyes and just thought ridiculous, right? He probably wouldn't even been on I mean, if he's a coke addict. Granted, he's probably not going to find my content. Yeah, right. True. like attracts like. But yeah, yeah. But I think a lot of people probably say, well, that's well, you only say that now. Because things are great, or whatever. Well, yeah. Because of your perspective, in the moment, now, you're in a place now where you're seeking my posts, you're seeking my information. you're seeking my content, right. But I think it's probably it's fair to say a lot of my most beautiful shifts in my life came from really dark time, right? some of our most pain. If we learn from those things, right? If we're growing, and let's be honest, like we're being we're human beings, we're, we're always evolving, right? Always. That's what we're here to do. And to crack the shell and remove the layers. I mean, I, I feel like the more I'm learning, the more I'm understanding that it is just layers that we're removing, to really get into the core of who we are and what we're asked what we're asking to experience in this life. What our sole purpose is just removing one layer after another sometimes it feels a little daunting. Yeah. And other times it's like, the more I learn the more I want to learn, right? Yeah, right. It's like never ending. Yeah. Give me more feed me more. Yeah. Because there's like a whole other world that opens up. And I'm not simplifying what people have really crappy situations, right? And I don't think you are either. I think we also just both gone through some really painful things. So we're not saying this from a place of, yeah, we had the flu. And that was our thing we've ever been through in our lives. So and yes, a lot of people have gone through very, very difficult things. And so have you and I, we're not minimizing it. We're not now. I have had friends over the years, we don't understand why Harry, how do you even know that? Yeah. Because I'm choosing to come from a place of gratitude and love anyway, right? Like, that's a conscious choice that I'm always we always have a choice point, I choose to come from a place of gratitude. And if you choose to come from a place of victimhood, or whatever, then that's your choice to maybe that's serving you. For now. You know what, sometimes in the darkest moments, we want to be the freaking victim because, and I remember one of these moments very, very vividly, I was in tears. My world had just been ripped out. I just found out some information and I was in shock. And one of my closest friends was like, reaches across the table as I'm in tears. Oh, I am so happy for you. And I'm like, are you kidding me right now. And I was so mad at her. This is my good friend Holly. Not our Holly a different Holly. And she goes I know But aren't you so grateful. You know this now? Because then you can make a choice from right now I'm not grateful. But later on, I'm like, No, I want to be in this. I'm hurting. This is painful. My heart is ripping open right now. And then later, she was having a moment and I'm like, Holly, I am so excited for you as she goes, Oh, that's how that feels. I said yeah. Well, let's talk about that. I I think being in it is is an important part of the process too. We're not saying that if some if I mean my world's been ripped out from underneath the underneath me before too. And yeah, I think when you come from a place of gratitude, then you're like, well, it's gonna be okay. But in those moments is not going to be okay. Nothing's okay. Your entire world has just shattered and broken down and fallen apart and you have no idea what to do. Right? You don't know what to do next. You don't know how you got here, like you is there's an impending doom filling. And I think being in it, like literally being in that moment and feeling your way through it. And not stuffing it down, is how you become a grateful soul. It's how you live from a place of grace and gratitude and empathy. And love is because you sit in your shit literally. And you feel that moment, it might last for an hour, it might last for a day, it might last for a week, might last for a year it might and just going through that. And then recognizing that maybe you are at a choice point now and you don't want this anymore. You want something deeper, or you want to shift something you want a new perspective, I often think of a conversation I had with Michelle or our amazing friend about this because she's really big and use it and your stuff and you fill it and for me especially this last program I just did with her there is immense power in that moreso than I've ever experienced with really sitting and allowing the emotions to move through without naturally we for me I turned to food or I turned to zoning out on TV or whatever it is so that I don't have to feel whatever's coming up or why this thing is coming up. I mean I think that's a natural human state we do anything to avoid pain and yet in those painful moments is war some of our a it can go through in five minutes or five seconds if we just sit in it for a minute. And and some of our greatest learning goes through that and we're also allowing our bodies to deprogram because there is a chemical and all the systems that are going that have been used to and conditioned to a certain environment for a certain amount of time and now we're asking for something different and when we ask for something different then it's going to feel uncomfortable so can we sit in the discomfort and her she said something to me that was so profound and I to this day it's like that was a really big piece for me. If you're a Christian and you believe in Jesus the you know the Garnham guess m&e, and where he was in the darkest, the lowest of his lows, and he says, God, why has hast thou forsaken me? He went through his dark night of the soul. God supposedly left and he didn't leave a he. Jesus had to go through that in order to do what he was going to do next in order to grow what he needed to grow. And that because often I think for anybody that is Christian looks at that and goes, God left grace in his lowest moments when we think that we are supposed to be there or God is supposed to rescue us. We have this environment of thinking people are supposed to rescue us, or Food Rescue rescues us or social media or tea. We are what I mean, look at all the things that we have in our world. Yeah, it is right thinking that we have to be rescued. And what are we trying to rescue ourselves from ourselves? Feeling what needs to be felt so that we can move through so that we can actually have something else in our lives that we're so desperately seeking? Well, it makes me think of what's popping for me because I'm reading the Christ letters right now. Oh, yeah. And they talk about the kingdom of heaven in the kingdom of God. And I think that the more I understand, like, exactly what you're saying, like you, you're looking for something, a place a destination, to feel better. What if the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven is with us at all the times like, and he came back from the desert 40 days when he was trying to share what he learned that's, that's what I believe he had learned. Now he wasn't Christ. And until that happened, right, he was Yahshua Ben Joseph, and then goes in the desert and has this big awakening, a huge awaken the awakening was from within the kingdom of heaven was from within. Yeah. And that's where I, the more I, I think you asked me in the very beginning was on my relationship with God changed? I would say more so in the last like year, maybe two years than it ever has. Numerous Oh, yeah. And it's that that kingdom of heaven piece, that is really what we believe, and you can call it whatever you want, right? All the answers are within. There's nothing outside of us. That's going to get us right, what is going to come from within Yeah, I mean, even healers, or teachers, or whoever, like they're all there to assist us, they're guides, their guides, and if we're giving our power away, then you're defeating the point. And you know, on this topic, please, please please, for the love of God, find someone that has done their work so they are not healing and not teaching you from a wounded place. That is popping so much up in my world lately that it's it's really important because when you go and seek out a healer or seek out someone, if you're in a really low place, or a very vulnerable place, you are so impressionable to anything this person says. And so if you're attracting someone and you know, at the same time, everything's perfect. But if you're just going to someone to go to someone, just be careful, just be cautious and use. Just Just use your best judgment. I guess. There are a lot of healers, quote, unquote, healers, I don't know coaches, that are teaching and speaking and healing from a wounded state, meaning they have not completely healed that thing that they're teaching. Well, on any healer that I've been to, in my experience, the great ones, they're not there to fix anything for you. They're there to hold space with what they know, whatever that technique or therapeutic process is. They're holding space for you to go within. Yeah, like any good healer coach therapist, that's what they're there to do, how they're not there. I mean, even my husband who does Reiki people are like oh, you're a healer? No. And I really struggled with that or the healer. Your body knows what it needs to do my job is to hold space for you. I mean, I'm a healer also not for me not I'm not here to heal you I'm not here to like and I also believe like speaking of Christ, like he may have laid his hands on people and cured them but I really believe I think they How do I say they had to have faith and actually they had faith they believed they chose in that that could be a place of healing Yeah. And so they matched his frequency they matched his vibration so they have themselves healed themselves he held space for them to do that and he was holding that higher state exactly so that's what I I'm watching the chosen I don't know if you guys have watched I started I really enjoy it and there's some things you know, I don't I wish they would play Mary and Jesus a little bit more but you know, in the scriptural context and there were talks about marine Jesus actually in a relationship but it's a really beautiful thing and that's one thing that I how they portrayed all that and my belief system is the same thing like he held that knowing that you could heal anything it's alchemy really of the body that we all have the power to think you know, we've talked about this before as he said, You know, this can you do and then some is like he was just here to be a wayshower. And that's what we all are doing. If we're out there trying to do our the best that we can for ourselves because we're desiring to seek more than we get to assist others in that same path and be a guide away shore, being our Christ selves, be Christ, like right now live from a place of Christ consciousness, and then you are the wayshower. And you get permission for people to do the same. And tell me how much gratitude is in that space. Oh, immense. gratitude. Now, comments? Well, I don't think I ever thought you and I would be talking about Christ on this podcast. I was I didn't even think I'd be talking about leaving religion on another podcast and all of that, but I'm just sitting here going is this interesting? Never say you just never know. I think that's one of the most beautiful things About our life is allowing for that unfolding. Because some of the greatest moments in my life were things I could have never predicted ever, or planned on or, you know, I agree, I agree. Or if you had an expectation you let go, and you surrendered and guess what, usually it's better when you could have ever expected it to be when I've often thought about that, because if we're this whole surrender piece, how do we you know, if we're, we should have goals, we should have something that we're charting towards. And the way that my mind has kind of made sense of it is I can put a goal out there, and it's this or something better. And then I let go, when I start working towards that, I mean, I'm not going to sit on my ass doing anything and expect it to magically appear. That's not going to happen. Because again, we create a realities, and we're co creating with God. So then I get to surrender and go, okay, and this or something better, this or something better. So true. I love that co creating with God peace, too. That's such a profound because a lot of people think, well, they can co create with our relationships and the only other humans in their life. Yes. And if you're feeling like you don't have a co creative relationship, or marriage, or whatever that is, you can always have a co creative relationship with God. Yeah, yep. Yes. And if you struggle with having a co creative relationship with God, then it's probably time to go look at what that relationship is. You know, what? What is the dynamic? Where did I? Oh, Holly, she was sharing on her podcast that we did on the other. On my other podcast. She was talking about how the way that people view God is the way they view love. And they've never heard that it makes so much sense. So if you think God is conditional and limiting in his in his how he gives, well, that's actually how you'll also view and receive love. I totally believe that I actually live that I've never heard of explain that right? I'm like family that's Yeah, well, yeah, you should listen to her at her episode was really beautiful. But yeah, fascinating times we're living in I, I kind of see gratitude and love, like on the same vibration like they live on the same channel. Yeah. So maybe people don't like the word gratitude will then exchange it for love. Yeah. Are you living from a place of love, maybe coming from a place of love, and empathy. I had this. This is hitting a few different memories, but a friend of ours, Mike and my spacing his name. Anyway, he did a video not that long ago that he said he had received this guy, you know, a spirit came to him. And he was having a conversation. And he said, What is the greatest thing that all humans desire? And he said, Well, it's love and the spirit responded, no, it's peace. And it's like, you know what, that is true. I don't, I would have responded. Same thing with love, because love to my belief, love is the foundation of all things. And you can't have gratitude without love or love without gratitude. Like they do go hand in hand. But underneath all of that, it is peace. That is what we're all seeking for n in peace is simplicity. Why? It's funny that you say that, because that's actually a question that I asked my kids if they're really feeling stressed about something, or even myself, like, if you're in a situation, I don't know what to do. You're you're confronted with a choice. I say, Well, what brings you peace? Now? What brings you peace? Not what would bring the other person peace that you're dealing with? Like what brings you peace? And if we come from within, and we bring peace to ourselves, then that's who we're responsible for? Yeah. Yes. And I would ask in tandem with that, because sometimes, what makes us feel better or more at peace is not doing something. And that's not necessarily the answer. This is something I've learned, right? Cuz I'm I was really, really good at not showing up when I said I was going to do something because I would start feeling overwhelmed or anyway, it would just trigger on my own things. And then it was like, Well, I'm just not supposed to do this like that. This must be the answer that I'm not supposed to do, because it feels a lot more peaceful to not do anything else. Take this off my plate. Yeah. And I've done that many times. And I have since then learned that usually it's those places that are uncomfortable, because it's asking us to grow and stretch. And we get to lean into that. And I love that question. I mean, I think that's still a very relevant question. And I think a secondary question to at what would be well, I feel peace on the other side of this, if I, you know, because that is something that again, is human nature, we'd rather just, no, I don't want to do that. Well, I think a lot of times people think about being uncomfortable. We're all vulnerable. They have to do it publicly. That's not true, either. being uncomfortable, vulnerable, yes. If you want to go to the next step, and you want to act on something, then yes, but not always. Sometimes those uncomfortable moments are vulnerable moments. They're private, that you're, you're recognizing something, an action that maybe something you've been doing with all your relationships, it's not serving you and you're just seeing in your own place. This is not serving me anymore, right? You're being vulnerable in and of yourself to admit that I gotta stop this habit. I got to stop This reaction I gotta stop this fill in the blank that is not something you have to share with the world that is between you and God are you and your higher self whoever Yeah, I think people incorporate being vulnerable or uncomfortable as making it public and I just don't think that's always the case i think that each their own right some people are a little different than others. But um yeah, I think teach their own awkward silence. I think we've covered all the things one you're doing are you doing a freebie or a course what are you doing with gratitude? I have a seven day freebie Oh awesome that I'm just launching right now take it's called the seven day gratitude experience I love and then if they love that they can opt in to the 21 day gratitude journey. And well that's that's a paid piece. And then they for 21 days. They do we do reflective questions and journal and and then what's after that will either be working with me one on one, or a group? All those things are still kind of coming to fruition. And it's devenish duo.com sevenish duo.com with ease DeVonish with two Yes. No show notes, I think Yeah, yeah. And you your retreat. By the time this podcast release, you'll be retreat. Yeah, but you're always doing a treat twice a year, right. Actually, by the time this podcast release will be Monday and we'll be retreating Wednesday night and this this retreat for some odd reason. We still have a few spots open. So Wow. Usually a minute call. Yeah, I don't like I told you before. I don't think we'll do October. Again. This is like a very odd time of year. But we'll be down in Springdale, Utah, which is the heart of mouth Zions, and this retreat is very different. In fact, the people that are coming are a lot more beginner into all of this. And it definitely feels more of like a really nourishing space where some retreats in my experience from ones I've facilitated and gone to some retreats are very challenging because the whole time you're looking at your shed and other ones are a little bit more gentle and this one feels this one's a little bit more on the gentle side and enjoying and yeah, gentle just is the word that keeps coming. So if you're feeling a last minute call, Amanda joy Loveland, calm. She's come Holly and I love doing retreats together. We're really good at it. Actually, you guys really are both you guys both have your unique gifts that you bring to the table. And then together, it's like a whole nother what's so experienced. What's so funny about this is like when you look at astrology, and like numerology, and all of that. So what Holly is, is what my husband is and what her husband is, is what I am. So it's so funny that it's like, well, of course, because her health, her relationships healthy, my relationship is healthy. So it's make sense that her and I would do well together. But yeah, we're very different. And then very similar. Sounds kind of fun. I love it. It's just fun. Well, I love the one we went to in the spring was beautiful. And your favorite part was I loved all the meditations. That was one of my favorite What was your least favorite part? Oh, god, I'm asking this question I do. I can't think of anything that was a least favorite part. Honestly, no hooks in the bathroom that has been remedied. Yes. I don't need to poke in the bathroom for my towel. That's been Dang it, I took care of that, hey, well, then there you go. Other things have been solved? I really can't think of anything. I think my own personal struggle is just the maybe Is it the implementation or the what's the word how to take the things and apply it in your life? The implementation, the just, yeah, just living from that place, taking those aha moments that you get at a retreat, and then bringing them into your everyday life. I for me, as I've looked back, it's like I can you have those aha is that start stacking on each other, you know what I mean? It's like, wow, this led to this that led to this that led to this. And you can kind of see how all the dots, dots connected. And I think ultimately, because all of us are seeking for that place of peace when you're in a space like that when you're stepping outside of your everyday norm and you're allowing yourself that time and space to be with you for you for your own personal growth and healing. There's something that just it's magical and it's powerful in in the ripple effect that it has. And that the opportunity to just really sentence in in that space and feel peace because I know I don't know if you notice but that location down there is just the setting alone is just spectacular. And healing and energizing and both the House and just being in Xi'an. Right did the hike and all that, too. Yeah. Right. So I mean, I think absolutely, yeah, I think there's just bringing it back and and I think really we're all masterpieces. All peacemakers, right? So there's just dots and pieces of the puzzle to our life that we're connecting in the creating this. And you know, we're spending the edges sometimes and making the puzzle that much bigger. Even if we do feel whole. Yeah, maybe we're adding some exterior layers. Usually when we add the exterior layers, and we're expanding, that's when all of our circuits were will start glitching. Just you know, if you don't know this, I'm letting you know. I've had lots of glitches, are you kidding me? Oh, yeah. And I wish we were coming. But I anyone that goes or is even if you're listening to this, and you thought about it, you should absolutely pull the trigger. Yeah, cuz they are awesome. And I'm surprised you even have some spots. So I know we even have a well, I know, right? so bizarre. I don't know about you. But have you been noticing time shifting? Like I feel like things are starting to flip, there's a switch flipped? Have you felt that? Absolutely, there is a shift that has taken place, I feel like we've hit the tipping point. And now it started gonna start going the other way. And I can be totally wrong. As I'm saying that it feels like there's still a few pieces that are gonna hit us a little harsh, but especially like when we're I mean, here, I'm going on a tangent for a minute, but since we're the pilots that are, oh, they're starting to on strike. And I was watching this video about this woman that has our, you know, she's at the airport is crazy long, because there's not very many employees there. And I mean, there's so many more people that are that are standing up for their rights and for our rights than we're seeing. So I'm growing, you know, what I'm seeing, you know, that's what I'm really grateful for that people are sharing that they're at the airport and waiting. And they're grateful that they are showing these more these videos are standing at the airport, they've been on hold with Southwest Airlines for five hours and 53 minutes, this woman, wow. And she's videoing herself. And she's posting this and she says, I'm in so much gratitude, that people are choosing their own sovereignty, even though I want to be home. And this is inconvenient for me. And I'm frustrated, because I've been a loyal airline. Through Southwest my whole life, I'm frustrated, this is happening. And I see you, I hear you, I'm grateful for you. And I can see that you're standing in your sovereignty. So that's, I think that's where most gratitude pieces, that's where the shift is happening in the world. And in just this consciousness of gratitude of just Hey, this is ugly and hard, and I don't love it. And thank you. And that again, that kind of I mean, we've touched on that this entire episode, but especially with the world stage when you can find gratitude and what is transpiring? And what will come out of this. That's where you're not set. Yeah, like, it's not so daunting. It's not so heavy, and there's not that fear place, because it's all it is 100% all serving. It's serving. I agree. I have people that we've talked about a lot of this conspiracy theory time, whatever is going on in the world, hey, what do you think of this? And they're always like, I did not think you were gonna say that you love it, or that you're excited about it, or whatever. I thought you're gonna say, Oh, this is it. We're screwed. The ship's going down. I'm like, I don't I've never seen it that way. Yeah. I really believe that. And I believe this just with life in general, but all of the constructs so if we want change all of the constructs that we know have to crumble, and how are you going to have to be torn massive constructs, that there isn't massive drama? You know, or some sort of event that happens? Yeah, I mean, even even in tarot cards, if you pull like, Is it the tower card? Yeah, yeah, that means like your foundation, I think a lot of people are like, even falling off. There's fired, but I pulled that card once and I'm like, shit. It's like, no, this is really good thing. Yeah, with death comes rebirth. You know, and if we have to, I was talking to my son about this. And that's a whole other story. But if we have to sacrifice not traveling right now for a year, two years, so that, you know, our world is overall a better place for our children and our children's children. It is so worth it in my book. You know, absolutely. I love the I love the message that the pilots are sending and the videos that I've seen that, hey, you know, this is this is affecting not us. Not only us, but our children and our children's children. When you're having surgeons that are refusing to operate on people that do not have the vaccine. This I mean, that is a huge problem, a huge problem. And we were taking away people's rights and like that one video that you're talking about, where it's like when I have to choose whether I'm going to be able to put food on my table or do something that I don't agree with. It's like, what is America freedom? Yeah, what is the America that we're, this isn't America, this is the New World Order that's trying to come in. That's what's happening in Australia. And we're not going to be Australia. It won't happen. And it's ugly as all of it's been I'm so grateful that it's happening. Because even from my own perspective, where I started in January 2020, the Jessica that I was then and what I thought I knew about the world we live in it is inherently different. We're even talking about the god connection. You cannot tell me that this hasn't propelled most of us to really reflect on what do we believe in and what do we stand for, which would then go into what are called Politics is like we to share it on that other episode. What even is socialism and Marxism and all that? And what is my relationship with God? Because I'm not quite sure. Yeah. And that in itself, that right there in itself, oh my gosh, what do I really believe? And how do I see the world? And how do I make a difference? Right? Even just one little Jessica in the world? How do I make a difference? Yeah, it's that ripple effect. It's that energetic feeling that we put out into the world. And then that touches the other person and the other person and we just the power to influence is just magnetic and magnificent, and it's just reaching. Well, if you look at us, like I remember reading a book years ago that was talking about, you know, the end of the world was supposed to happen in 2012, right, because that was all it was all the Mayan calendars and all this thing. And it was predicted by a lot of people and I remember reading a book that was talking about how if you were to look at us humans, like a grid, and that a grid system that's on the planet, and what started happening is people started waking up so they'd be start started becoming more heart centered, which would be from a place of gratitude, and they would literally illuminate in that grid. And so that's what you're talking about when we start moving into this God centered, heart centered gratitude type place of living, we start lighting up the grid and when we light up the grid it goes out and then allows for that same availability to happen to other people that's partly why Jesus came to go and be an example but also to help light up the grid Hey, you guys are more more than just this life and there's not at the time that he came nobody believed in life after death they didn't know what they believed and now all of a sudden opens up this whole world that there's something more you know and that's what we get to do in our little individual worlds of I just get to keep doing the best that I can do with my life and feeling called to do whatever it is yeah, and leaning in and being vulnerable and authentic least that's me for sure me too and being the person that like lights up a room like we all if you if you think of somebody in your life that every time you see them they light up a room or something in you ignites or they change the energy of the space we know who a person a name comes to mind right? What if we are that person what if that is the best we can do is that we shine up we show up as that light we shine that light in the every room that we're in whether it's the grocery store whether it's at the gas station, whether it's at your business or your home What if you just didn't change anything at all? Except that one thing that you you were that person Yeah, you came from a place of gratitude you shine your light you were kind you were empathetic you were graceful. And you just showed up as that light even if you don't see that light anywhere in your field. If you become the light then that in and of itself is how the world shifts and how the world changes. Yeah, so I think we are shifting because more more people are standing up for what they believe they know what they believe even me. I know what I believe more now than I did Oh 100% a year almost. I mean it's almost been two years if that's so crazy. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I i understand more of my personal sovereignty, and I thought I was a very what's the word already sovereign already? Yeah, I already knew who I was. I already knew what I was here to do. Or maybe what my gifts were my brilliance or what I wanted. But now more than ever, I know what my voice is and what it needs to be. Doesn't it feel so much? Um, it's, for me it's so much more personal. I don't know how it's like all of these things that we're talking about are so deeply entrenched within my being it's not something that's outside of me it is it is who I am. And I think that's what the shift is that you're speaking to I don't know if that's how you feel as well but it sure and that's exactly why I mean you would think this was planned out that's exactly why the name of this podcast is that Yeah, what is personal is universal because it is so personal. Everything we're experiencing is so personal that's why people are so moved no matter what side you're on. It's a personal choice and that's where people are so standing in their power no matter what side you're on, because it is personal. It's it's affected them in a personal way. Yeah. So everyone's standing in their own personal sovereignty now so it is more personal and it what is personal is universal because we're all like my thoughts, right? Yeah, it just magnifies that Yeah, I love them. Anyway, it's powerful and that's the thing even in these things that we're talking about that are simple, they're so powerful. Be a light you know, if you don't know how to be a light, actually just Sundays be in the sun every day and ask the sun to help illuminate the light that's within let's start doing that and then start smiling at people making eye contact with people just being kind I know of that and of all of this Alibaba beings I know it's hard because I'm sitting here I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna miss this maybe I can be a guest every once in a while your podcast I would love that. So no one everyone's gonna if they want to. If they want more of Amanda they have to go to her other podcast leaving religion. You know what's fun about that. It's not as much the leaving religion, it's more what they've grown. And it's what we're thinking about. Yeah. These personal relationships with God that I mean and their stories of just what they went through. That's probably my favorite thing about your podcast and the people you interview is everyone has a story, whether it's leaving a religion or whatever, it's where they are now, what's come from that loss, for lack of a better word now, right through through the loss or through the sadness, or through whatever it is that they have experienced, that you've interviewed. It's what they found now. Oh, that's my favorite part. Yeah, I yeah, like we talked about, you never know. You never know. And this is one of those things I didn't know and where it's going. And like I didn't, it's stunning to sit here and be in the space with these guests. And there is I mean, it's beautiful. You never know who thought I was gonna do a podcast by myself. And that'll be next to I'm not surprised. Hopefully, they stick around. Oh, of course they will. I think you're gonna you're always doing something amazing. So thank you. Thank you for inviting me to be on the podcast. And thanks for showing up and being my, my person I get to see every week. I know. I'm like, You're gonna miss me. You're gonna miss me too. I don't have to try to you're not gonna miss the hour drive. I probably won't miss the hour drive? No, probably not. But I have appreciated everything about you. So thank you for your friendship and your light. And just everything that's not all going. That's not going away just this for a minute for today. But there's that intentional piece where we choose to spend an hour a week together. Yeah, that will inherently change a little bit. Maybe not much. I know. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks to all of you all for supporting us and continue to support Jessica, because I know they will. And so it is and so it is. Thank you for joining the conversation today. We hope that something we said sparked your curiosity to further your growth. Only you know what is meant for you. So let's continue the conversation and follow us on our Facebook page at what is personal is universal. We'll see you there.