UP389 The Buy Side - UBS, MercedesF1 and inheriting Roger Federer

The Buy Side is our regular series where we talk to brand side marketers about sport and sponsorship.
Today's guest is Anneliese Mesilati, Head of Brand Activation and Sponsorships, Americas at UBS, the private banking group and wealth management business.
We talk about the brand's extensive sport portfolio and its role within the marketing of the company, which includes the Mercedes Formula One team.
Last year, UBS took over Credit Suisse Bank, posing the question as to the future of many big name contracts with sports stars, teams and tournaments, including Roger Federer and the Swiss National Football Team.

The Buy Side is sponsored by KORE Software the global leader in engagement marketing solutions. More than 900 brands, venues, and sports organisations trust KORE’s tools and platforms as a source of truth to manage partnerships, assets and measure impact, with real-time insights. Through Sponsorship Management and Evaluation, Ticketing, Fan Engagement, Data Management and Analytics, KORE unites corporate sponsors, properties, and their fans with solutions that help enhance the fan experience, drive smarter decisions, and enable marketing and operations teams to spend time where it matters.
Learn more at KORESoftware.com or follow them LinkedIn or Twitter. 

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Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to Unofficial Partner. The sports business podcast. I'm Richard Gillis. The buy side is our regular series where we talk to brand side marketers. About sport and sponsorship. Today's guest is Anneliese Mehta, Lottie. head of brand activation and sponsorship for the Americas at UBS, the world's largest asset management business. So we talk about. The company's extensive sport portfolio and its role within the marketing of the company, which includes the Mercedes formula one team. Last year UBS took over credit Swiss bank, posing the question as to the future of many big name contracts with sports stars teams, and tournament's including Roger Federer and the Swiss national football teams. And we talk about the broader issues of the impact of ESG investing on the sports marketplace. And. The way in which the financial sector generally has. Sold itself to its audiences. After the financial crisis of the late two thousands. The buy-side is sponsored by core software, the global leader in engagement, marketing solutions. More than 900 brands, venues and sports organizations. Trust caused tools and platforms. As a source of truth to manage partnerships, assets. And measure impact with real time insights. Through sponsorship management and evaluation ticketing, fan engagement, data management and analytics. Core unites corporate sponsors properties and their fans with solutions that enhance the fan experience. Drive smarter decisions and enable marketing and operations teams to spend time where it matters. Learn more@coresoftware.com. Or follow them. On LinkedIn or Twitter.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 1:36

first of all, thanks for coming on and whereabouts are you?

Track 1: 1:40

I am in uh, New York on Long Island at the moment.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 1:43

So we should, we should really say what your job is. what do you do all day?

Track 1: 1:47

So I manage brands and sponsorships for the Americas regions. So for the US and the broader Americas for UBS, which is a leading wealth manager and a financial services firm.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 2:02

And what were you doing before that? How'd you get a job like that?

Track 1: 2:05

Previous, well, I've generally I've spent most of my career in the financial services industry. I actually started out at Citigroup. and have worked for a number of global and regional financial institutions throughout my career.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 2:21

Always with a sort of sponsorship brief or is that something relatively recent?

Track 1: 2:25

So my background is in marketing, communications, brand, and sponsorship, and I feel with marketing roles, You can really lean into sponsorship depending on the objectives of the company. So I've worked for some organizations that have had much more focused on, for example, lead generation and digital marketing strategies with a lighter touch on sponsorships. And then I've worked for other organizations which are really looking at repositioning and rebranding and then they'll tend to work through partnerships and sponsorships. One thing is I actually will say if I go somewhere and they tend to not have so much focus on the brand, I do spend a lot of my time trying to educate them on the value of brands and uh, and partnerships.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 3:17

That's interesting. You see, I mean, I was going to ask you about what, what the difference is, the sort of almost levels of enthusiasm or appetite on the, you know, within one corporate and another. Is it, does it come down to me a lot? Is it, is it just personal advocates at various points?

Track 1: 3:34

I think the, one of the most important areas to look at is around the data points, particularly when you work within a financial organization. Thank you and there is, you know, very rigorous scrutiny on numbers and on results. It's really important to have that physical evidence of how a brand campaign or a partnership can work. can drive return on investment. So that's one place where I'll start. And then in order to get the, obviously you need to have had a partnership in the first place in order to have the data. So one strategy I've had previously is to really literally talk about brand science and how we, there's a limbic connection in the brain and how brands, drives, awareness, trust, affinity and consideration and all of those areas. So it depends on where the organization is in terms of their evolution when they look at that branding and sponsorships and marketing.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 4:34

So it's interesting. So the, the sort of data argument only works if you've got the data, there's like a leap of faith that if you, if you haven't done it already, you're going to need. something from somewhere to make that argument, isn't it? So if you go to the science and the data, if they're the first, if they're a first time, you know, if they're going into, it's quite often people around Olympic world where they, there's a massive corporate sort of question of, blimey, are we really going to do this? This is, this is huge. That, that question of trying to advocate or make the case. It's quite tricky, isn't it? Trying to work out where the, where the levers are. Not just from the rights holder perspective, but from people within the organization who are, who see the benefit and are trying to sell it in.

Track 1: 5:20

Yeah. I mean, we can do calculations around returns on investment, but there, there would be cases, obviously they're an industry. standards, and we try to use benchmarks as much as possible. I think sometimes it is a bit of a leap of faith. And you need to have your advocates and, and, and particularly when we're talking about the dollars that are involved in some partnerships, you know, multiples, multiple, many multiples of millions for some of the big global partnerships, it is quite a big leap of faith. But I will say, once you've taken that leap of faith, one thing from a very practical point which is quite helpful are opt out clauses. So that, that can always help, help the conversation. And then also with just any performance metrics that we can write into contracts as well. And I try to build in um, business development work streams as well and, and metrics so that we, we are sort of directly seeing a return on investment on that side.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 6:21

Sometimes when people talk about sports sponsorship, particularly big tickets, but you know,

Track 1: 6:25

Mm-Hmm.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 6:26

is, we'll get onto that in a minute. But there's a question there about it comes like a package and the price is always the conversation. So it's a, and the trades want a number and the papers want a number. This is a, whatever it is, 10 hundred million quid deal. Advertising doesn't come with that baggage, does it? Media spend, although they're probably multiples of. what they spent on sponsorship. It's quite interesting the way in which it's presented. And it's quite often when people don't want to do sponsorship, they say, no, the, the, the price was too high.

Track 1: 6:57

Yeah. I mean one of the major stumbling books that we can find is around act, that activation budget piece. So you've got the initial number, which quite often is very significant. And then we know that that very significant investment won't deliver if we don't have the activation dollars that come off the side. So with certain leagues, for example, if you're looking at the NFL, then there would be separate media deals that you would do with. You know, a Fox that or different networks that would um, broadcast. And then you then have a evolving market where we're now looking at not only just traditional media, but streaming games on streaming as well. So that then adds an additional cost. So that for us, you know, we might've started out a deal two years ago and We would have a sponsorship and we might need to do a media deal off the side and then suddenly they add a streaming service or some kind of pay per view to the, to the to the viewing and we have to look at that as well. But I would, I think also one thing to think about now is social media can be very, very helpful for us and that's something that's much more within our control. That's something that we, if you have a really good and strong contract with your partners, you can build in social media content development, distribution on their side a lot of the production. from the team and that can help in terms of extending brands awareness beyond the sponsorship. Obviously you need to do paid behind the social. There's no, there's no point in putting anything out organically anymore. But that can potentially be a route which is slightly more affordable than doing a big broadcast deal.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 8:50

Do you think there are, just following that thread then, the, the implications of that, do you think that in terms of the, where the brand appears, so if it's a social campaign compared to a big ticket television campaign, campaign on one of the big, you know, platforms. What are the sort of intangible bits of that? Because that feels like there's a message in the, you know, the medium is the message, you know, cliche, but there is some truth in that in terms of, and particularly from a financial services

Track 1: 9:18

Mm hmm.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 9:19

the messaging is important in terms of, look, we're here and we, you know, trust is very central to it.

Track 1: 9:25

Yeah. Well, I think if I talk from a UBS point of view, Okay. And I look at the Americas, which is a region that we're looking to grow. Having that big, broad brand awareness piece is nice, but also if you're looking at a large league. Sometimes there's quite a lot of waste for us because we are a wealth manager and not, you know, not a very high percentage of those, you know, millions of people that are watching a, say, we'll talk about NFL, NFL game, would be potential UBS clients. So there may be a lot of waste there. So for example, one thing we did in football was we were the partner of the Harvard Yale game, which has 90, 000 people attend on the day. It's broadcast over very sort of around the Thanksgiving period. It has a huge broadcast viewership. So that was a way for us to almost control our audience a little bit more. And then one thing again, from the social media perspective, Which is interesting for us, we don't have that, like, it's not like UBS Arena, so we've got an arena and the impression that the arena has when you can see your brand logo from the entry paths into JFK from the, from the flight path, you know, that has a huge impact. That we can see our logo on all national broadcasts of every game, everyone that's in the arena, you can't miss the UBS logo that has a, you know, a tremendous impact. But we can't afford to do that everywhere, so we can't we can't put a label, a kind of a logo up there in lights in, you know, the Americas, the Americas are a huge region. The US is huge. Many cities are important for us. So that social component can be quite important because we can target so easily across zip codes, demographics, interests, and that's something that I feel broadcasts media Those traditional networks, they're still not there with that, which is interesting because most people are watching on smart TVs, but they haven't quite got, you know, the technology isn't quite there yet where we can, as a, as a a buyer of their services can target with them.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 11:47

Yeah, it is interesting it's not there yet, because that's been the promise for a long time, isn't it?

Track 1: 11:50

yeah,

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 11:51

Let's sort of, what, I'm trying to work out what UBS is, because I'm not a customer, and I'm probably not a target customer either, but it's, Can we sort of go back a level? Cause I'm trying to work out what it, what the business is, because it's finance is big, it's a big word, it's complicated. Lots of people doing lots of different things. So what, what does UBS do? And then there's you know, what the function of marketing is in that world. Cause it is, when I talk to bank people of varying types there's a sense The sort of financial crisis in the late 2000s, it was so cataclysmic, traumatic for everyone that the marketing of the financial services sector, they've almost been apologizing for a decade, you know, there's been a lot of the messaging around it is much less, it's not bullish. It's not confident. It's not, it's, it's more more purpose driven. I don't know if you would agree with that, but just take us in to what UBS do and what the, what the role of marketing is.

Track 1: 12:51

So UBS is the world's largest wealth manager, so that, that's really the platform from which we sit from. We also have a leading investment bank. We're an asset manager as well, so we really cover Those three areas of finance. In terms of purpose, we are a leader in sustainable finance. So we were one of the first institutions to really look at sustainable finance. We've got our own called Optimist Foundation which has been running for many years. And we are, we are actually very purpose driven as a, as a company. Believe as being the world's last largest wealth manager, we have a responsibility around the wealth. And the mobilization of global wealth. And we have the ability to offer products and services and investment opportunities to clients that really can generate goods, whether it would be through our, we've got an oncology funds, we have Funds that look at education. We have a lot of sustainable impact investing work. we also have a lot of exclusion categories within the investment bank. We have a very rigorous, approach to where we do and don't invest.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 14:06

what is an exclusion clause?

Track 1: 14:08

So an exclusion would be, for example, coal fired power stations and areas such as that. Yeah. So where there are certain industries that where we, where we could have some exclusions in place.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 14:20

and in terms of differentiation then, my head goes to We used to talk about Swiss banks, didn't we? I

Track 1: 14:29

Yeah. Yeah.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 14:30

but is that still an advantage? Is that label one that you're interested in? Is that part of the differentiation of the bank? You just bought Credit Suisse or merged or took them over. Is that flag waving element still important in a globalized financial market?

Track 1: 14:48

Well, we're, our Swissness is completely inherent and I think Beyond that view of Swiss banks, actually the role that we play within Switzerland now as following the acquisition of Credit Suisse is absolutely fundamental. And that actually has a very important role with regard to sponsorships and partnerships, because now UBS as a combined firm with Credit Suisse has taken on partnerships for a huge amount of the Swiss portfolio. So that's museums the Swiss national soccer team, Roger Federer, you know, many, many Swiss institutions have come within our portfolio. And We acknowledge the responsibility that we have for that. So actually our CEO made a public commitment that we are completely committed to all of our portfolio in Switzerland until 2026. And then obviously with different terms in place, there'll be a review. That, that happens over that, but we have a huge kind of obligation to the Swiss market and Swiss culture. And, you know, the Swiss nation to uphold the kind of, we're a systemically important institution, we're a systemically important bank and within that there's responsibilities and that's just not on the, From well, part of the reason for the acquisition was to stabilize the world's financial system. But beyond that, from our world, from our sponsorship world, there are leading organizations that, you know, we will partner with. So we have to take that responsibility.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 16:29

So is your job then it's quite an interesting case study or will be, I'm sure in, you know, is that how you manage that process? Because you've got two organizations with their own sponsorship portfolio. If we take it to the sponsorship level,

Track 1: 16:41

Yeah,

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 16:42

do you do the same as in, do you look at sponsorship in the same way as your colleagues at Credit Suisse did or would have done? Or is it, is it just being squashed together and it's your job to work out what works, what doesn't, and then we're going to make some decisions?

Track 1: 16:55

so we were very lucky. We've come together. We're a combined team now. The global brand and sponsorship team is a combined team and we actually had an offsite recently where we sat with the framework for UBS and the framework for Credit Suisse. And apart from the fact that one was red, the UBS one was red and the Credit Suisse one was blue, they were extremely similar. And we may have opened up categories slightly. So, previously UBS had a policy where we haven't traditionally worked with ambassadors, but now we've opened that up. Obviously, Roger Federer is, will continue and is an ambassador for UBS. So we've, we've. adjusted our program. We had not done anything in equestrian with UBS and Credit Suisse have a big sponsorship at White Earth, which is an equestrian event in St Moritz, and we've taken that on. So, yeah, it's looking at the portfolio and seeing what, what works. And we were lucky that there are, there are a lot of similarities in our approaches.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 17:57

So in terms of the job that sponsorship does then, or the sports sponsorship, is it the same across both organisations? Is it essentially, are the objectives the same, but you've, you've got sort of different contexts and bits of activation, which might be different, but you're basically trying to achieve the same things.

Track 1: 18:14

So I feel that the objectives are different because you, for UBS, there is a focus very much outside of Switzerland, a much greater global focus. So we are very focused on the US, the Americas region, and also in Asia. So that, that has implications for the portfolio beyond. So there is this, you know, this sort of culturally important role that we play within our home market. But when UBS looks outside to grow and looks to continue at the momentum that we've got within the U. S., Americas and the world. Asia, brand and sponsorships play a very, very important role there. So the UBS in Switzerland doesn't need to have any work around brand familiarity. There are branches in every city, you know, every town. It's that the name is completely ubiquitous that, you know, the logo is everywhere. But when you come to the US, there is very, very low brand familiarity. So that's my responsibility. So my approach will be different. I'm looking to partner with organizations that can deliver me that familiarity. Yep.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 19:35

look at then Formula One. Formula One. Because that is interesting for lots of different reasons, because it's quite high end or very high end in terms of the target audience, so high net worths, there is a, the sort of messaging is, is interestingly about craft and artisan ship in terms of the relationships between the bank and these very rich people who need their money looked after. So there's a sort of element there that I think is a counter to a sort of AI world or crypto world where you've got, it's the wild west and we're all gamblers, whereas actually what you're saying is there's a different storyline coming through there, which I think is interesting. So I'm just trying to join that. Into Formula One, because quite often I can see a arts and culture sponsorship portfolio and you do that as well, I know, which is normally where people go for that sort of, you know, stuff. Sport is interesting because you also need numbers, don't you? You need eyeballs. So you can get very niche with cultural stuff and it can be really nice on a, you know, for a particular objective, but it doesn't hit. a big number in terms of an audience in the same way as sport can. So just let's, it's a long way of saying, how did you get to Formula 1?

Track 1: 20:54

So UBS has had a very long standing relationship with Formula One. We've been partners with Mercedes for a decade and UBS has had historic partnerships with Formula One as an organisation previously. We are probably one of the first financial institutions that had a big commitment with Formula One. When you look at craft, I think that there are definitely many themes within Formula One and also all of our sports partnerships where that theme comes through when we look at discipline, expertise, methodical time spent, you know, the things that can happen behind the scenes that no one ever really sees until you become this absolute expert and leader. And when we look at, say Formula One, when we look at drivers, there is absolutely a craft to what they do. And the same with anyone that sits within the team. So the engineers the, anyone that sits within a management role, the, that's making team decisions. There's certainly a craft that has been honed over many, many years. And that's the element where we will activate the brand in terms of sports. Really just around that discipline and advice. And it's actually interesting because within Formula One, we have started to shoot some content with Mercedes. And we took a deep dive into all of the areas that might be relevant for the campaign. And we found that some of the mechanics within Mercedes still use these tools that are a hundred years old because no one has ever found anything better. So you've got the incredible, you know, technology that's advancing, you know, how we use a road car now, like all the incredible technology that comes in from Formula One. And there are some You know, very, very simple metal tools that could have been handed down three generations that the mechanics will still use.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 23:03

Which is quite nice, isn't it? Isn't it? It

Track 1: 23:04

Yeah, it's fantastic.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 23:05

What's it, what's it like, what's the, just being around, you know, the paddock and the grid and what's that like,

Track 1: 23:12

I mean, for me, I'm British. I grew up on Formula One. You know, I think we all remember the many households would have had the races on, with that iconic theme tune when, when, when everyone was growing up. So I, I mean, it's just, it's an incredible privilege to be able to get into the access to the race, access to the teams. It has become a complete scene. I do have to, I do have to say, and in the U. S. it is a bit of a scene. One thing that I really like is that from the US races, and I think I haven't been to too many of the global races, but each race definitely has its own personality and its own identity. So Austin, you definitely feel like you're in Texas, and then Miami. It's a real party. You feel like you're in Miami and Vegas is a whole other animal. Vegas is Vegas. So I think the, the way that the, when the, when the you know, the teams go to the different places and the races arrive in the different cities, they do get that very local feel and that's great. I mean, it's just incredible what the, what the teams can achieve, what the organization achieves. What's it? 23, 24 races coming up. The fact that everyone's kind of moving around the world. The teams are also evolving. So they're trying to have local hubs now. So they're not literally flying everything around the world. So they'll have a set up in the, in the US and a set up UK. Asia, and they're trying the the organization is trying to group the races. So there just isn't so much travel and flying around the globe, but it's, it's amazing. I mean, I love the, to see the mechanics at work and the real behind the scenes. I mean, it's an absolute privilege to see the drivers, just to see the commitment from everyone and the energy is it's really something else.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 25:05

and presumably the, the sort of American strategy plays very well for you, obviously.'cause you know, you, that's what you're trying to achieve with it. What do they see it differently? Is it sort of more of an exotic. product for them. As you say, I agree with you. I grew up with it and you know, I'm not a huge fan of it, but it was always there. And it's the storylines were in the papers and it was very familiar. Is it the same type of, it feels like it's a bit more upmarket maybe in America than it is here.

Track 1: 25:34

Yeah, I think you're right. America's had a very, really, really interesting journey with Formula One, which I think I've witnessed firsthand. So I have lived on and off in the US for over 15 years. And for many of those years, no one knew what Formula One was. Absolutely. There were maybe within New York you would have, you know, expats or you would have the Brazilians and the Mexican, like the Mexican communities. And that, you know, everyone there that would have a, had a Formula One heritage, there would be a following for Formula One, but generally no one knew about Formula One. And I can remember coming into the role in this team. in 2019. And everyone's saying to me, well, it's all very well that we're a F1 sponsor, but it's kind of irrelevant for us in the U. S. No one really cares. And then Drive to Survive happened. And it just spun. I mean, it's absolutely incredible. The demographics as well. It's a huge people that you, you wouldn't traditionally expect. Everyone loved that show. Lots of women are really, really interested into this in the sport. It's just completely boomed. And I also feel that social media is taken on a really big role because there are so many people now that are content creators and really given that behind the scene. Look, previously people wouldn't have necessarily known unless you were a real F1 fanatic. So I think it becomes a very. easy and accessible for people to gain a very quick understanding of the sport and inside insight into the sport through Drive to Survive, but also through the huge industry of content creators that are now online discussing Formula One. And it helps that people have got to see behind the scenes and there's a little bit of drama involved. So, it's not just about the sport.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 27:32

I was going to ask you whether it changes. I'm assuming it's a good thing from a sponsor's perspective the drive to survive, but then beyond that, what challenges it poses in terms of how you know it's working or, because obviously races and the measurement of sponsorship is quite formulaic in some cases, you're counting the logos on the screen, et cetera, but this does something else. as well. I'm wondering how you go about capturing that.

Track 1: 27:56

What I think it's around this, it's the sentiment and the interest. We, what we capture is just the, the growth in the fandom, the growth in interest, the growth in viewership, those numbers. And when I, I've got them for the US, I can't remember them off the top of my head, but It's exponential growth of races. So it's not the just the formula. It's not just drive to survive and tuning into Netflix. It's viewership of the races and it's completely blown up in the U. S. A lot of people are watching the races and then I think there is definitely a lot of buzz around what is, you know, Formula One. It becomes something that people want to go to and experience. I think we're lucky, very lucky to be a team partner. So, we can offer our clients some really exceptional and hospitality via Mercedes. That's always great for us. We in Miami, we have a location on Turn 5, which is one of the best turns on the track that we partner with Mercedes on, which is just fantastic. It's, it's wonderful for us to be able to offer that to our, to our clients.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 29:04

There's a couple of questions. One is whether it's made, and this is you stepping back probably from UBS specifically, but just looking at it from a sponsorship professional's perspective, my assumption is, and you put me right here, that it's made the back of the grid more valuable as a sponsorship property, potentially. So other teams are getting more of a highlight. It's made drivers more valuable. So the price of a driver sponsorship Presumably has gone up. Those people that we now know and didn't know before, cause they were under a helmet at the back of the race. So there's, there's sort of interesting little nuances within it. When you buy a team sponsorship, do you get the drivers as well?

Track 1: 29:42

Yeah, we have access. So we have um, certain rights that we can access to the drivers. And so we could have experiences where we could have content shoots with them, or we can have the drivers come to you know, have a client activation, speak at events. They are quite limited though, obviously. And obviously we're a partner with Mercedes. So, we have, you know, they're one of the greatest Formula One teams of all time. So, and obviously Lewis Hamilton. So, our access is potentially a lot more limited than if we were in working with a team that's further down the grid. But yeah, we do get access to the drivers and we also have have had on occasion separate deals that we would have done with the drivers. And we currently have a ambassador deal with George Russell as well.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 30:31

And obviously Lewis is going to Ferrari. Does that impact your view on the overall value? Or is that just a marginal thing?

Track 1: 30:40

I mean, I'm personally very upset about this, this, this decision. I, I mean, I mean, I can't think that the, the kind of the greatest driver of all time leaving a partnership isn't going to have an effect. But I think Mercedes is an extremely strong team. We'll live and see how, how, you know, we don't know, I can't, I can't foresee what the, what the impact will be. We'll, we'll see who, who gets the seat next season. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what it means.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 31:12

It's interesting. I asked David Parrow, who's of the MoneyGram, you know, head of sponsorship. And he was, we were talking about Gunter Steiner, cause he'd just done a load of stuff with, with the Haas team and the activation and he, and Steiner has been one of the stars, obviously, of Drive to Survive and then they sacked him. So it's, it's. You know, it's not exactly the same, but you can sort of see that there are parallels one of the sort of tropes, as you know, of sports marketing over the last few years has been the, fandom and stars versus fandom and teams and, where the value resides and you go, you land on sort of the Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo case studies, they take their fans with them. And well, I just don't know whether or not that's the same in, Formula One, and whether or not there'll be a sort of an effect, a Lewis Hamilton effect as he takes people who probably aren't hardcore, Mercedes fans, but they're not going to go anywhere. But you've also got a sort of movement there.

Track 1: 32:06

I think it's undeniable, I mean he is an absolute superstar, so 100 percent people are Lewis Hamilton fans more than they are Mercedes fans. I think for us though um, We can our partnership will continue and um, we'll just, we also, I mean, we don't just activate with the drivers. We just had a really interesting meeting where we worked with Mercedes team sat down with our sustainability Institute and the engineers from Mercedes. Came to us and we had a one day workshop just all around the area of sustainable impact, technology, engineering. So, our, our kind of, work with Mercedes runs quite, you know, quite a lot deeper than the drivers. I mean, we actually had worked with Lewis with the Mission 44 and supporting the foundation and, You know, that will continue as well. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's undeniable a superstar is going to and, and the greatest driver of all time is going to another team. But I feel that we can continue.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 33:18

Does he, I'm not, again, doesn't have to be about Hamilton, but there is a growth of, he's an example of, of, you've got these superstar sports people who are now, Investors, they're, they're rich enough to then start to want to buy things and invest in stuff. Sports, properties or tech or whatever it is. I don't expect you to, talk about the financial relationship, but you are a bank, you are a, you advise people on that. Is that an area that you are seeing, that you are taking seriously Or is it you always, obviously the question is whether it's just a PR thing. Or whether that's actually a substantial trend that we should take, be aware of that in terms of that, you know, big sports people, you hear the NBA, you hear LeBron James, and Hamilton is in that category and you're hearing it in football increasingly as, as people start to engulf. What's, what's your take on that trend generally? Is it something that you think, okay, yeah, that's, that's a new business area for us that we can. And again, it's whether it wraps into a sponsorship deal or whether it's a, just a financial business as usual relationship.

Track 1: 34:23

So we actually have a um, advisors that are accredited. We started our own accreditation program as athlete and entertainer advisors. It's a distinct area within itself. So when you look at wealth and let's look at athletes. So the average NFL career is, I believe three years.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 34:45

Wow.

Track 1: 34:46

So there is a huge component of wealth within that, sector. And a lot of athletes and entertainers as well, it can be sporadic wealth. We talk about fast, vast wealth. There are new themes that have come in in the US. So, uh, NIL, name, image, license is another area within college sports. That's a, an area that we look at and advise on. So, the athlete piece is a huge component for us. We have specialized advisors. Athletes are there are a number of areas that we look at. Legacy is a big area. We have that wealth preservation piece looking at as well. I mean, a lot of athletes are investors. We actually had a TV show with Players TV where we ran a shark tank type show. This is looking from the sponsorship perspective with um, athletes that were investors. Because we, the view of athletes is they have these profiles now, they have huge investment portfolios. A lot of athletes have philanthropic ventures. They're activists, and we have collaborated with athletes through these shows to profile that. So we work with. Chris Paul was the executive producer from the NBA. We have had content with Travis Kelsey, Alison Felix Ken Griffey Jr. You know, a lot of legends, a lot of, a lot of NBA, NFL, athletic stars. featured in our content. So that was one way that we really wanted to provide this showcase and to give a platform for athletes that are now definitely moving beyond their life on the pitch or on the track.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 36:33

And there's also a question of education for them. I mean, they're quite

Track 1: 36:37

Yes.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 36:39

they obviously by definition, relatively young people most of the time, and they haven't spent, you know, years in banking or investment. So, they are vulnerable to bad advice. You know, so there's a, there's that, I can see that there's a sort of traditional horror story of football, footballers investments, isn't it? And it used to be the pub, but now it's a sort of sports tech venture, and it's the sort of same idea, but a bigger price point, you know, that they're, they're not quite often that I can't think of many fantastic sports star investors. So there's a sort of need for high end

Track 1: 37:15

Yeah. It's the far, it's this issue of fast and vast wealth and, and wealth when you're extremely young as well. So, not having the, the infrastructure around you to be able to, to manage that. And there are many things that we've looked at through our research. One area is survivor guilt. That's a big area for athletes. where you may be the only person that made it out of your community and then you're supporting a vast network of individuals within your community. You're bringing your friends, family, and you're protecting yourself for the people that you know and love that are closest to you. Are those people the right people to help manage your finances? So that's an area where we definitely look to work with athletes. We work a lot around athletes that have just been drafted into leagues. And again, it's interesting because there's the start of your journey, There's the, the kind of the middle bit where you, you're just looking for that preservation and then the other piece is the legacy. So how will your wealth continue to live beyond you? And also what do you want to do beyond your, your life in sport? Do you want to set up a foundation? Are you going to kind of invest in different businesses? What are the right structures for you? And that's something that our advisors are very, very strongly invested in and, and have many clients that they work through from the area of athletes.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 38:47

Yeah. no, it's fascinating, isn't it? It's a whole sort of area in and of itself, but it's, it's one that, cause you know, when you get, we had, um, well, we've had several people on over the years where they're setting up sort of almost business schools. I know the PFA in, you know, in the UK over here is, is we had Mahetta on here, who's the CEO of the Professional Footballers Association. And there's a, there's a real need there. You can see it,

Track 1: 39:13

Yeah. So we have, yeah, we are a partner of the NFL Players Association. So we're accredited and an official partner for the NFL PA. We also work with other leagues. We work with HBCUs. We have a lot of that financial education piece with, with you know, across all leagues and sports. We also, from my world within partnerships that we have. So for example, with we partner with 43 Oak Foundation, which is a youth hockey organization that supports diversity and inclusion within ice hockey. Which is traditionally, it's the most expensive youth participation sport in the U. S. And as a result of that, hasn't traditionally been very diverse. And part of our program with 43 Oak Foundation is to offer financial literacy, to offer planning around future athletic careers. We just work with St. John's University. St. John's College, they have a big college basketball program and we just worked with their two athletes over March Madness to discuss NIL name image license and next steps for their career when they move from college athletics into the professional leagues. It's something that I'm definitely involved with from a sponsorship perspective as well. And then even beyond that, I mean, I go to the sports management classes that they run within high schools for the Sawanaka School District, which is the school district that the UBS So I go and talk to their students we also work with different classes. We offer financial literacy to some of those students as well.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 41:02

Right, that's interesting. you mentioned earlier about the, the, just the broader bank and the ESG

Track 1: 41:09

Yes.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 41:10

and exclusion causes. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you is that, because one argument that you hear is that that, sort of ESG financial framing or movement or whatever you want to call it, is going to then Shape how sport sees itself.'cause they've got their, they're going to determine, I, I, I guess one way of asking the question is whether or not that agenda shapes your sponsorship decisions is one, is, is a question. So, because. It gets to things like representation on board of women or ethnic minorities. It, that could be one part of the question. There's a whole load of things that sports governing bodies, teams, leagues are under the cosh for because they don't do it very well. And governance is always

Track 1: 41:53

Yeah.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 41:53

that they, you know, from the very top. Right the way through. And I'm wondering about how realistic the argument is that companies like UBS on their own or that ESG sort of agenda, which is obviously far broader, what the implications that would be, what do you think, how you think that's going to evolve

Track 1: 42:13

Well, I will say that we were considering exiting Formula One until the FIA and then Mercedes also, I mean, Mercedes. shared their sustainability commitments. So it's something that is a real consideration for us. So if we don't find a kind of a, a route through as organizations, then we would, we would, we would exit partnerships. We have different commitments that are written within our contracts. For example, with UBS Arena, the, one of the key areas for our partnership was that it's going to, it's one of the most sustainable builds and one of the most sustainable arenas in the U. S. And then beyond that, there are other commitments, for example, Constructors, Oakvie group who built and had operated the venue. They worked with minority business owners. They had targets on all of the employees that they would have over the construction phase. So that was women, service veterans. Service disabled, minority business owners. They had all of those criteria built within the project. So I think it can filter on in many, many levels, but we have regular meetings with all of our partners on those areas, and we try to push the barriers as much as possible, even on the art side. It's very important for us that we have representation within the art market. This year at Art Basel, we had the first not for profit that was featured within the actual show, which was a UBS partnership with Art Noir. We build these ESG components into all of our partnerships. It's something that we spend a vast amount of our time working through.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 44:03

and do you get any kickback? I mean, obviously we live in a, you know, a culture war environment. I can imagine people say, well, you know, this is all woke nonsense. I'm going to, you know, do you get any of that?

Track 1: 44:15

we haven't had any. I, I haven't experienced any.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 44:19

That's good. Oh, it's good. to hear.

Track 1: 44:21

I think that most organizations, I mean, with most partners that we have, we've, I mean, when you enter into the partnerships that we, that we enter into, you're looking at five to 10 year deals. And sometimes they're out to 20 years. We've been a partner with Art Basel for 30 years. That is definitely longer than most marriages. So we have to, you know, we're very careful about who we choose to partner with. And I think part of that is that we share the same goals and objectives and there may be some areas where we would have a firmer view, we have a very sort of a strong view on sustainability and a very strong view around impact as well. And quite often our thought leadership positioning and products are ahead of the market, which means that there can be a little bit of a discrepancy. So generally we wouldn't, we, we just need to be careful there. For example, we had, we've had something with some partners over carbon offsetting because UBS has very clear advanced defined views over carbon offsetting. And other partners are carbon offsetting, but it's maybe not the gold standard of carbon offsetting. So, yeah, but they are certainly doing it. So, again, it's a point of education and, for example, we work with Mercedes and we partner with our sustainability teams and it's about coming together and everyone combining to move forward.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 46:02

And there's obviously a Formula One question. So you're happy with Formula One's position in this, in that world in relation to sustainability, particularly that's, you know, it's an

Track 1: 46:10

Well, they have pretty firm net zero targets. Mercedes has targets. We're, we're aware of how they're working as an organization. The introduction of the races where there's definitely more representation from women. We're seeing the way that they're, obviously is a very carbon heavy when you, when you move all of the teams around but the, the, we see that the FIA is trying to mitigate that as much as possible. There are we know that a lot of the technology from the cars goes into actual road vehicles. So the, the, the Formula 1 Mercedes, that incredible clean green technology that they are developing will ultimately go into road cars. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. It's not perfect. But the organization and the teams are trying to push and break barriers wherever they can.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 47:07

Okay. Well, listen, thank you very much for your time. Really, really uh, enjoyed the conversation and um, we'll be following Mercedes, UBS, both on the track and Roger Federer now. Now he's,

Track 1: 47:20

Yeah. And Roger Federer. Yeah. Yeah.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 47:22

Swiss national team.

Track 1: 47:23

And the Islanders. I've got to put in a plug for the Islanders. He just made the New York Islanders. He just made the playoffs in the NHL. So that was they had a stunning end of season turnaround. So we're all getting ready for playoffs over here.

richard_1_04-19-2024_141321: 47:37

Great to hear. Annalise, thanks very much for your time. Really enjoyed it.

Track 1: 47:41

Thank you.