UP475 Inside Edge: 'India already had a monopoly, now they've got hotels on Park Lane and Mayfair'

Inside Edge is where we overthink the business of cricket, with co-host Mike Jakeman.

Today's guest is Lawrence Booth, Editor of the Wisden Almanack, the conscience of the game. 

Released last week, Booth pulled no punches in his editor's notes:

"2024 was the year cricket gave up any claim to being properly administered, with checks, balances, and governance for the many, not the few. India already had the monopoly: now they had hotels on Park Lane and Mayfair."

Is he right?

Closer to home, how will The Hundred play out for the game in England?

And Richard reports back from Lord's after attending the launch of the ICC Women's T20 World Cup, to be played across England in 2026.

This episode of the Unofficial Partner podcast is brought to you by Sid Lee Sport.

Sid Lee Sport is a new breed of agency that combines world class creativity with deep sponsorship expertise, flawless operational delivery, and a culture of marketing effectiveness. 

We’ve really enjoyed getting to know their team over the last couple of months. They’re an impressive bunch, who believe that sports marketing can and should be done better.

They have a creative philosophy of producing famous campaigns and activations that build buzz and conversation in a category that too often looks and sounds the same.

And they're pioneering a new standard of effectiveness in sports marketing, using econometrics and attribution models to go beyond traditional media ROI.

So if you're looking for an agency to take your brand to the top, get in touch with the team at Sid Lee Sport, where brands become champions.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello, it's Richard Gillis here. Welcome to Unofficial Partner. This week it's Inside Edge, so we're overthinking the business of Cricket with my co-host Mike Jakeman. But first of all, a word from our sponsor. This episode of Unofficial Partner is brought to you by Sid Lee Sport. Sid Lee Sport is a new breed of agency that combines world class creativity with deep sponsorship expertise, flawless operational delivery. And a culture of marketing effectiveness. We've got to know the team over the last few months. They're an impressive bunch who believe that sports marketing can and should be done better. They've got a creative philosophy of producing famous campaigns and activations that build buzz and conversation in a category that too often looks and sounds the same. And they're pioneering a new standard of effectiveness in sports marketing using econometrics and attribution models to go beyond traditional media, ROI. So if you're looking for an agency to take your brand to the top, get in touch with the team at Sid Lee Sport where brands become champions.

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:04

And I'll get his name wrong, but I've got it written down. I'm tried, I've been trying to pronounce it.

Mike Jakeman: 1:08

Abhi,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 1:09

Um, va ab, how do you say it, Siri,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 1:12

I just want to double,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 1:13

that right? It's a fantastic Cerna sur Soci. So you don't pronounce the Y

Mike Jakeman: 1:21

Yeah, Sue,

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:21

Soci. Okay. Chy. Chy. Vab. Is it? Vha.

Mike Jakeman: 1:26

Yeah.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 1:26

Vha. Right. So that's what we, we we're gonna talk about. so Mike Jakeman, welcome back. Another episode of Inside Edge.

Mike Jakeman: 1:39

Thank you Richard. Lovely to be here. And we have, as our guest coming up, the editor of the famous Yellow Book, wisdom Almanac. We've got Lawrence Booth coming on as our main guest later on. But there's a whole load of stuff we need to just talk about because obviously, and I'm gonna have a go at it. I'm gonna have a run in at it. V have sva. No, I couldn't do it. It's a refusal. Gimme a get you, you talk. Talk to me about the, this 14-year-old who has, uh, who's rewritten the books. I'll put fair amount of money on the fact that this is the cricket story of the year, even though it only happened in April. But I mean, this is astonishing stuff. Fab was born, ladies and gentlemen in 2011. Everyone just does a quick calculation of where they were in that year. Has scored the, fastest century in the IPL by an Indian player aged 14. I mean, it's,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 2:36

Incredible.

Mike Jakeman: 2:37

that any 14-year-old. He's even playing professional men's sport. it, he, he got a lot of attention when he hit his first ball in the previous game for six. that's, that shows he's got some stones. but then to do this, not even to, to score a century, but to score a historic century against a bowling attack that's full of Indian internationals. Um,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 2:58

who is it? Who was bowling?

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 2:59

so, Uh, Krishna, uh, who else? Uh, Washington Sundar. Rashied Khan. You know, this is a, a good Titans team that's going to be, uh, a contender for the, the title this year that they're put together, franchise.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 3:15

so it's, I mean,'cause sometimes when I remember there was a, there was sort of sometimes around things like the fastest century when you dig into that, it was like a sort of bit of a Mickey Mouse game. There's the bowling is throwing stuff up, it's not working, you know, it does it, it's not like a proper game. But this wasn't that at all, was it?

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 3:35

Oh, this was, this is opening the bating in an IPL game. He faced 38 balls and it's got 101 runs. Seven fours, 11 sixes, strike rate of 265. I mean, this is better than other legends of the game have ever managed. Now, know, I suppose there's, you can argue about whether this century or that century was better than the other one. He's 14 I understand that often you get teenagers who come through and because they've never been on the stage before, they don't feel the same fear, they dunno, failure, all of that. Yeah. I take that. To a certain extent, but he's 14, you know, he's still a child, you know, in, in,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:18

Mm-hmm.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:18

years time he's going to be considered a young cricketer. You know, I

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:22

Yeah.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:23

it's just so unprecedented. Cricket doesn't really do, I mean, does generational talents who players as teenagers, obviously 10 Doca being the most famous one, but he wasn't doing it at 14 for a national

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:35

Well, he's gonna be, he's gonna be a sort of gnarled veteran by the age of 20, isn't he?

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 4:39

I mean, there are. Plenty of examples of, of sportsmen who've peaked early and, and sort of disappeared when they should be at their peak. It's very hard to sustain careers that long, even with the sports science that we have now. But this is a, this is mostly just a joyful story. Um, in fact, there is a, there's a broader point here, which is about the fact that. Uh, and we go on to talk with some of these themes with Lawrence is that India is beginning now having got this platform of the IPL to churn out young cricketers that are just going to be extraordinary. Um, I mean, they should, you know, the IPL is the perfect crucible. They get the world's best players coming over every year to to train their youngsters, the franchisees themselves are learning about how to do scouting properly and how to get these talents in the door early. Which means that if we fast forward this five years, by which point Surgi is 19, and then we look at Abha Sharma, uh, aria has had a breakthrough season. You know, there are so many young Indian batting talents who, and they've got these opportunities playing at such a high level in the IPL, that it's gonna be extremely difficult for other nations to compete with India, given that they've got this huge structural advantage to go along with all the kind of economic benefits that India has as well being the

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 5:58

Yeah,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 5:59

in world cricket, but this is

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 6:00

and it's sort of it the.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 6:02

dream come true stuff. We can talk, you know, the, but there is a kind of

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 6:05

I think it's, it is interesting that sort of second bounce of the story where people are saying, well, okay, this thing has happened and you know what, it's like you get a, a call from an editor or someone or you, you think, okay, where's this gonna go? Where can we take it? Quite often people would. Back in the day, get hold of, you know, someone like me and say, right, is there a business angle to this? Is there a, you know, can we take this in a different direction? And there's a whole load of tropes and cliches around how that might, you know, so the next big thing you then sort of say, and then they want to know what's he worth? That's always a question. It was like the Emma Rnu suddenly the day after, oh look, you know the deals that will be done. And there's a sort of area of sports business sort of, um, reportage, let's put it that way. That just is then goes and, you know, you get quotes from people saying it's, it's always a billion. It is always a round number. You always say, right, you know, it will make such and such. Uh, deals. And then the, then there's another bit of that story which goes into a sort of, you add jeopardy to it in terms of, well, you know, he is gonna spoil him, he's gonna ruin his life,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 7:06

He's gonna buy a fast car, Richard.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 7:08

He is gonna buy a fast car. It's like Luke Littler, you know, it's like he got a sponsored car before he could drive. It's like nothing good will happen here. And there is a very sort of definite class element to this as well in terms of how we perceive. The way in which they're gonna be managed, what they're gonna do, and all of that, all of that stuff, which is sort of bundled into what I call sort of quasi sport business journalism. It's like just journalism light, you know? It's not, it's, it's just an obvious place to go if you are a news editor and you need something to, to add to it. However, I do think there's quite an interesting, there's a couple of things that, I was looking at. The people that have been holding that record before. The youngest kids Wisdom, actually wisdom.com, which I don't think is connected to the Amate. I think it's a sort of different organization, but there's a guy, pres Ray Barman, who I. Debuted at 16 and 157 days and held the record for the youngest, um, century. And there's a list of these guys, and this guy hasn't played, he's played three domestic games for Bengal since 2022. Ja Koran sing again, a, you know, a really young prodigy that these people just disappear or they just don't live up to that initial promise. So we should be always be careful about, and this is, this is a problem that, that you see. The, the sort of extension of what I was saying. Yeah, the whats he worth type story. The problem is, and then there is a rush into that which get is completely out of kilter. So the sponsorship sort of story, so like Emma Ano is quite an interesting example where her career now is framed by deals because a lot of the people say, oh look, she's losing and therefore she's too much time spent doing sponsorship deals. It's really really complex, but you can sort of see where the story goes if you are not careful.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:05

I mean, that's a sober look at it. I. A joyous event. Um, he will

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:14

It is a joyous event.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:15

always

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:15

a joyous event.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:16

and, and yes, it could turn into the millstone around his neck, you know, the longer that rad goes without another grand slam, you know, as if that's to somehow diminishes the fact that she won a US open, um, with this

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:30

All I, I'm just, I am looking at this from a, from, from an almost like a sort of meta perspective, as in this is the way news stories sometimes evolve when you get this, you know, young prodigy story. I.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:43

okay, so I, there's actually two slightly different things going on with Chy. One is that he's so young, he is

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:51

Yeah.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 9:51

Fine. And he scored a century. The other is that he's scored the second fastest century in the history of the IPL. it's those

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:00

Mm.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:00

things together that make this. As I said before, the, the cricket story of the year, I think because, know, you think about all these other players who haven't made a century as quickly as he has, and I know that it can, you know, it can be a difference between three or four balls. But nonetheless, people do care about these records. He's not just

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:18

Yeah.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:19

he's young and done this. It's absolutely astonishing innings. Um, whether he's ever able to replicate it, who knows? You can have a perfectly serviceable career and never get

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:29

Yeah.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:29

again. Um, but that record is going to be in the books for quite some time, even if you know his, his career. I mean, he could go in as you suggest many different directions.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 10:40

no, I agree. And it is it is a fantastic story and it's one of those that, the other bit to it again, jumping on the sort of second bounce, it says what it means more broadly. You were getting into this just growth of Indian talent and the IPL and you've got this mix of money, talent, opportunity within, we talked previously about the sort of, whether you call it a hotbed or a fulcrum or whatever it, you know, the word you want to use, but there is something going on in the IPL and. When you then look at it from, again, from a commercial perspective, there's a question about the global nature and what the impact of this is going to be. if the money is buying hundred franchises and it wants to go to America and it wants to expand, what is, what does that mean And what does this group, and you can only imagine, it's gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger in terms of just the amount of. Uh, Indian talent? Is that exportable? Is it a bit more like, I mean, I know you mentioned before about the NBA and you know, those types of references where you've got something that is, you've got the global local question where you've got this talent base in a league that is globally popular. And how that works and whether they want the, the IPL to be a sort of Allstar game of the talents, which it's been so far. Or whether or not they're actually going to become more, much more Indian focused. I dunno. But it's quite a interesting question'cause there's, there are commercial implications to that in terms of, you know, it's popularity as a brights market.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 12:16

if you think about if. For a fun thought exercise. If you wanted to think of the sort of 10 players that defined the first 10 years of the IPL, you'd be putting in quite a lot of foreign names. if we then looked, did this in 10 years time and thought about the 10 players that have defined the IPL from now until 2035, I bet the majority of'em will be Indian, that means that there is a ban that BCCI has a ban on Indians playing. Franchise leagues abroad. But if all the biggest stars of 2020 are, are going to be Indian, then that suddenly relegates the quality of these other leagues, which would be fine for the BCCI, except for the fact that most of them are also now owned by the same people. So yeah, there's gonna be some really interesting questions, uh, over the next 10 years as to what the BCCI and also what the franchise owners. Not the same people, want this league and its kind of affiliate leagues be, and that that

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 13:15

Yeah.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 13:16

have huge implications for how big becomes in lots of different places.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 13:20

I wanna mention something that came out of our first episode. So, Andrew Ryan, who is the managing director at Fever Media, so basketball, international basketball, but it's the, you know, the media organization. he did a really good build on something we talked about, which was the 2020 ation of Cricket and how we compared it to, rugby Sevens and. Three on three, basketball and I'll point people towards it and because it's a really interesting thing. He was talking about limitation breeding, creativity and the sort of confinement and the point I think that you made in the podcast, which is about 2020, there is something in the game itself, which allows creativity and allow, you know, uh, there was room to grow because Tess Cricket. First class cricket one day. Cricket is so much longer. So there is room for specialization, which is potentially not there in other sports. And he's written a really interesting post and I'll, uh, direct people to it. I just wanted to flag that'cause He really knows cricket'cause he does a lot of associate cricket and I think he, he's a commentator for Cricket Europe, so he does, he knows the sort of game. right, I've got one. We've got one more thing to talk about, which is, I have been to lords, I've been, I love going to Lords. I always forget how long the walk is from St. John's Wood Station to the Grace Gates. And particularly on a hot day, I was thinking, I said, I love this, I love a stroll. And I get halfway down and I think. Shit, I'm not at the ground there and I've gotta go, I've gotta walk around the other end of the ground. So anyway, it's a minor moan, Mike. I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not asking for, for stuff, but there is, there was a great event, uh, yesterday, which was the launch of the ICC, women's World 2020 Cup. I've said that wrong. I think it's the Women's 2020 World Cup. So it was an ECB, obviously the hosting. Uh, organization and it was just a really interesting session because normally you go along to these things and people talk about stuff and then you go away and it's all fine. But there was something actually well thought out about this because we had, um, so Mark Chapman, I mean, is there anything Mark Chapman doesn't present? First of all, the man is, the man is busy. he was, he was presenting a, a golf, regional golf award show that appeared on my TikTok sort of thread, the, uh, sort of, uh, stream the other day. Anyway, I'll put that, that's the one side. He's, he's,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 15:44

That's, that's the difference.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 15:47

he gets a taxi.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 15:48

he's driven to the, the Grace Gates directly to, uh,

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 15:52

I, I, I say that in sheer admiration. I think he's really good. Anyway, so that's by the bye. But you had an interesting, group of people on stage talking. You had, Malala,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 16:02

Yusuf Sai.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 16:02

Malala Youth. That's another word. I can't, I'm terrible at pronunciations. Malala Youth, you have a go for me. Malai. Yusuf s right. You have Malala, Yusuf, sai, the, uh, human rights and women's rights campaigner, and she was extraordinary and bestselling author. You had Ellie Kil Dunn, the Red Roses rugby player, and you had Vanessa Williams, who is the, uh, singer actress. And I think former Miss World, but so that was the cast of characters on stage and then it broke up into a series of round tables about future of women's cricket. And there was a lot of talk about how to you know, what happens beyond the moment of the World Cup. So the World Cup's gonna come along. It's in a World Cup foot, you know, fifa World Cup football Summer. So it's gonna be crowded. But there's a lot of sort of strategies in place to really make a noise. So the event itself, I'm excited about. And then the question, the harder question, which is embedding women's cricket. Into sort of a, a more of a what, you know, a lot of agencies will call cultural relevance. That's what they will lead on in this conversation. But just trying to make it more of a, a day-to-day, week to week experience for more people. And that's the job that the ECB is, is looking to use the tournament to, to get into. And I think what we'll do is, we'll, get into this subject separately, I think because. One, it's really interesting in and of itself, but also talks quite well to the sort of business side of it in terms of the economics of women's cricket. And we could then sort of un start to unpick that and use this as a way into that subject. But I just thought I'd flag that.'cause it's a really, it was a really good day.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 17:54

So there's, a women's 50 over World Cup later this year, followed less than a year later by the 2020 World Cup. So the two, the, the 50 over World Cups in India. Uh, so there were two big opportunities for women's cricket to make, uh, a splash in two of its markets, over the next 12 months. Did you get a sense from the event what the ECB is for? Like what would constitute a success or is the point that we all know that English cricket is a smooth enough machine to mean that we can get crowds in? Good quality cricket, a successful hosting an event that the real sort of proof of its success will come in the next, the five years after it, where we see to what extent it's been able to kind of build on what already exists in terms of the infrastructure of the game.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 18:42

I do have that, but I need to get my notebook to make sure that I've got it right. All of this is, all of this is Podcast Gold.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 18:49

To be frank, I'm, I'm just

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 18:50

Ooh,

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 18:51

that it's, it's, you know, you are the, you are the smooth talking expert here and I'm extremely

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 18:56

think. rough around the edges and always feels like underprepared. So I'm, I'm quite happy that you need to go and look things up as well. So, to answer your question, yes, there's, there's a whole load you could imagine there's a load of KPIs that, that the ECB are working for. They shared a few, Beth Barrett, wild, who is the co-director, I think that's her title of the event, did a really good speech and laid out the sort of just the broad picture. so attendance and viewership, Building iconic figures, revenue. Cultural change at the grassroots and the more sort of esoteric one, which is, you know, building new tribes in a new, for a new era. One of the questions was, about the na, you know, there's a sort of branding issue in terms of, I know this is a bit sensitive to ECB'cause they've made this decision not to go, like the Red Roses, the lioness. So what do we call the team? And it's, it's, you know, England women, the briefing around that from the ECB was that Yeah, we've, we've talked about this, we've discussed it. We decided not to do that. There's a whole load of stuff about what a mainstream audience is now, and if you are looking at targeting a, you know, a major event with a mainstream audience, actually, how we consuming cricket? There's a load of stuff about who's watching. In terms of the, you know, and we've had, we've done a quite a lot on that recently in terms of the, the, just the sort of story of the stadium and the, the data from, people like Sky, which.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 20:16

Okay.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 20:17

Seem to suggest a different picture. IE it's a lot of people watching both men's and women's cricket. So there's a, there's a load of just sort of headline things. Lauren Bell was there and you know, I follow her on TikTok. She's brilliant on TikTok. I can see her being a massive star. Over the next year does that, you know, what does that do? And people will say, okay, it's top of funnel content. It will help the general, you know, she'll be present in the ether around sport. You've also got the national tournament and national teams, which again is. Easy. You know, you can start to see. Yeah, I get where we might go with that in terms of how that they're, they're gonna appear, it's those hundred franchises, the women's a hundred franchises, which is where the day-to-day stuff.'cause all the, always the aspiration is to move people from sort of big eventers into more avid day-to-day proper sports fans, tribal sports fans. And that's really hard labor. I think so, I think there's loads of questions there, but We'll, we'll get into them.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 21:19

It'd be fascinating to see if there's any possibility to bring more of the overseas players in England for the World Cup into the hundred Women's squads for the 2026 season. I need to look at the calendar and see whether that's a tool feasible, but that would feel like an obvious, potentially obvious bit of collaboration that could be, could be engineered if the ECB was interested.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 21:44

Yeah, I think you're right. What we don't know yet.'cause we're not quite out of the, we are at sort of the end of the beginning of around the hundred and what this moment means. There's this excitement, there's enormous amounts of money, which comes with a load of expectations. And one of the questions is India and you know. What that actually means in reality.'cause we've all jumped ahead and projected onto it and not le lease me with my sort of vera holy scurrilous rumors. But there is a, that, that's inevitable that will happen. But we just don't know yet, do we, we, we we're sort of in that space. They still haven't signed the, you know, it's not finalized in terms of what they, they've actually bought yet.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 22:26

In this waiting, there is nothing for us to do but speculate about this stuff.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 22:29

I know, but, and why have a podcast and not speculate? I mean, there's no point.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 22:33

precisely. Did you see him on the way to the Gates Spy?

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 22:35

So, yeah. Yeah. He's always, yeah. He is hanging around the gray gates, you know, no, I didn't, of course I didn't. I'm just building the river, building the story. I had a one piece of gossip, and then I've established myself. Right. Okay. Now we are about to, this is far longer than we anticipated, but we are now gonna be talking to Lawrence Booth, editor of Wisdom. It was a great chat, wasn't it, really enjoyed it.

mike_1_05-02-2025_101701: 22:58

I mean, Lawrence is, uh. Towering figure in cricket, who I think has a lot of integrity. And also, you know, he's got a, uh, an enviable job, but a difficult one because his editor's notes are, um, extremely widely read by everybody, uh, from the games governing bodies down to the grassroots. And they have to be sufficiently, what's the right word? InterG of the game, which means that you risk putting noses out of joint. Um, and I think this year he, he's delivered a, another really interesting Um, yeah, this is, this is a really good conversation, I think, and, and I, I always enjoy talking to Lawrence.

richard_1_05-02-2025_101701: 23:45

Agreed. Right. Let's get into it.

Richard Gillis, UP: 23:48

I've got a question about the book itself. What do you think of it now? there's an iconic status to it, it feels of its time, but it's still this eagerly awaited moment, you know, for cricket fans. When it comes out in the spring. What's your, you know, just give us a sense of you and the, the almanac.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 24:05

Well, it's a, it's a funny one really because an annual shouldn't really thrive or flourish in, in the internet age. And I think if it, if wisdom didn't exist, you probably wouldn't start it now, but because it's been going since 1864, there's got a gonna, that weight of tradition gives it a certain momentum, I think. And, uh, and readership is still fine. Bloomsbury been now publishing publishers since two. 2008 and, uh, and they happy with it. And the editor's notes are an interesting one. You know, as we've discovered this week, they still make headlines. And that is a kind of reassuring thing, uh, for wisdom. You know, people say, what is wisdom's role? Well, while people are still interested to know what wisdom has to say about cricket, then it, it sort of justifies itself in a sense. There aren't many other. Really any other sporting publications where what the editor said becomes global news within that sport. So it's a huge privilege. I'm always wary of that when I'm, uh, or aware of that really. But when I'm writing the notes, I think, well, I've got to, I've got to kind of a, make a bit of a splash when the book comes out. But B, it's gotta. Uh, it's got a stand standard, the test of time in, in 20 years time, you want to look back at those notes and say, yeah, they wisdom were on the ball there, or that they were ahead of the game. So it's kind of twofold that role and it that that's not straightforward, but it's, it's a challenge and, and a privilege. It's, it's fun.

Mike Jakeman: 25:23

I think it's fair to say there is, I can't think of another sport that has an equivalent publication that has something in it that is essentially kind of. Both a kind of temperature check and also essentially it's, it's the, to me, it's the conscience of the game speaking once a year. I mean, there, you know, imagine if football had something like that. I mean, there'd, there'd be plenty to say obviously, but I think it's quite precious to cricket that such a thing exists.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 25:50

Yes, I think so. Yeah. Conscience of cricket's a good phrase. Some people call us the Bible, which I don't, I'm not so keen on. It's, I think in, especially in this age of sort of hot takes and rolling news and. You know, the thing is off your Twitter feed as soon as it's appeared, really there is a, there is space it seems, for a more considered perspective. And when, when you've got that tradition that Wisdom has, and that the editor's notes been going since 1889, so they've become the kind of a focal point within the cricketing year about, as you say, a temperature check. It's a, it's a sort of high class soapbox, I suppose, in a way where I get 5,000 words to write. Pretty well, what the hell I like about, about the game as I see it from the previous year. I mean, that is a huge privilege. If I wrote those same words in the Daily Mail one, I'm cricket correspondent, they, they wouldn't make much impact, I don't think. But wisdom say, right, exactly the same thing in wisdom, and it's suddenly, it's suddenly a story. So yeah. Incredibly lucky to have that in. Yes. I mean, and football doesn't, it used to have, Rothman didn't, it wasn't quite the same and, and Rugby doesn't really have it, so Yeah, it's unique to Cricket.

Richard Gillis, UP: 26:52

is it a particularly British conscience of cricket? Are you conscious of that? Is that the accusation again, I I'm wondering how these land, I, I was reading your stuff about Jay Sha, but I was wondering how wisdom is perceived in India, for example.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 27:06

Yeah, good question. I mean, wisdom has tried to, the Allman Act has tried to work in Australia, uh, back in the, the, the early part of the century the century and, and in India. And they both had about seven or eight editions, but they never sold in the numbers. To justify publication. So they stopped and that made you think you can't just transplant the idea of wisdom into another country. And let's face it, if it's not working in India and Australia, it's probably not gonna work in any of the other cricket playing nations. So yes, there is a, there is an unashamedly Anglocentric. Bias. A lot of our readers, uh, for example, would be county fans. So Red Bull County Cricket gets a good shout in wisdom. Each year. We do match reports for all the county championship games, and people may say, well, we're out of touch, but some, to some degree, you have to appeal to your readers. You want wisdom to keep going. And we also then clearly have, we have a new section, new-ish section on T 20 franchise Cricket. So we're covering cricket in the round. Uh, but we, I suppose there is a, there is an English bias towards Tess Cricket within the book itself. And I think even traditionalists in other countries quite enjoy that. You know, there are small sales in, in Australia and, and India, South Africa, New Zealand, and they like, they like reading about Tess Cricket. They like the fact that we, we support it.

Mike Jakeman: 28:15

So if we, if we take this idea of a kind of temperature check, one, one thing I particularly appreciate about the notes is that. You don't pull any punches. So if I can quote you, you back to yourself, uh, in this year's notes, you say 2024 was the year Cricket gave up any claim to being properly administered with checks and balances and governance for the many, not the few. India already had the monopoly, now they had hotels on Park, lake and Mayfair.

Richard Gillis, UP: 28:42

Nice line.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 28:42

Thank you. Um, Yeah, so obviously, I mean, one of the themes of my sort of time as editor, this is my 14th edition, is I I do, I do look at Inju and, and the way their, their dominance of the game is, uh, creeping into all aspects of it. It's, it is now no longer just financial, it's now administrative. I was talking here about the, uh, ascent, I suppose of Jay from. Uh, BCCI, honorary secretary to to chair of ICC might argue that's not actually an ascent. It's more like a sideways move. But nonetheless, it was pretty well the last remaining position that India didn't have control of. And. The game waved it through. And we had this, I mean, I, I start my editor's notes by talking about this very strange scenario we had where at one minute to midnight on November the 30th, he was in charge of the BCCI. Where, uh, the big story at the time was the fact that they weren't going to go to Pakistan for, for the Champion's trophy schedule that had been agreed by everyone including the BCCI three years earlier. And then at midnight, he was suddenly chair of the ICC, whose main headache was sorting out the champion's trophy, which was being messed around by the BCCI. And I thought, well. This is not a, this is not how a serious sport can administer itself. There's a, there's a, there's an obvious conflict of interest there, but it was just waved through because India are all powerful and no one wants to question them. And I get, I get accused of all sorts of things on social media by, by Indian fans who think I'm anti-Indian. Not at all. I am, uh, critical of a small group of men in suits who run the BCCI. It's, it's a very different thing. And I don't think cricket is, I don't think England and Australia have done themselves any favors since the big three takeover in 2014, which got pushed back a bit under Shashank Manahar, the, the less hawkish BCCI administrator, but now has gone full circle and sitting that in the decades since then, England, Australia just basically kowtow to India and, and said, yes, whatever you want. And it's a monopoly, a monopolies. Are not always good things. Uh, and it remains to be seen how, uh, how Jay Shar uses that position. He, he may prove me wrong, he may prove to be the best ICC chair ever, but I think it's questionable as to whether, you know, does a sport want to be so enthralled to one nation, is the question I fully accept the money that India bring into the game? That is absolutely crucial. Uh, but, and we'll probably get onto this, but the, the, you know, their share of the ICC pie is. For me too big and a lot of problems in cricket would be solved if they've showed a bit more large.

Richard Gillis, UP: 31:08

Yeah, the question of that relationship between the money and the governance and the pressure point, and as you say, the power base. I'm wondering what. the longer term impact of that pinch point will be, what's the sort of fear that you have of that, your sort of framing of, that problem as you've identified it? What do you worry about in terms of as we go forward?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 31:34

Yeah, good question. I mean, so. I think it was two years ago. Now, the ICC, uh, essentially redistributed their funds. Obviously they have a central pot of money that they get from TV revenues for their, their global tournaments. And, and that, uh, India share went from something like 28% to 38, 30 9%, and that was they, so they effectively take something like 230 million. Dollars a year from that central pot. Now, if you go down to, let's say, west Indies, who are often held up as an example of a a, a, a cricket team that are stru, a once great team that are now struggling, uh, their share is something like, uh, 28 million. Uh, US and their annual turnover is about 50 million. It costs them 5 million alone in TV to, to, to, to host, to, to, to broadcast their games because of the disparate nature of the Caribbean. So my argument all, all along has been that 230 million for India is chicken feed. When you look at the, the, the TV deals they did a couple of years back for the, they, they got something like$6 billion for their, uh, the, the streaming and live rights for the the IPO, which is two and a half times the. The value of the previous deal, the sale of the five. W Women Premier League franchises in 2023 netted them 575 million. The, these are vast sums that that by which next to which 230 million pales into, into absolutely nothing. Now, if say West Indies could get a bigger chunk of that, if India said, look, we need a global, we need the global game to be healthy, not just for. Because we're philanthropists, but because it will help Indian cricket as well, you have to appeal to their self-interest. They need a healthy, global game to kind of justify their existence in a way. If they could say, we'll give up a big chunk of our two 30 million on their feet. We'll get, uh, Sri Lanka and Africa, New Zealand, all these countries playing test cricket on a regular basis. I'm not saying that solves all the problems and money has still had to be spent. Well, so this is a long-winded way of saying that the, the issue clearly is that if that disparity continues to grow and India are not minded to, help out, the other teams will stop, simply stop playing test cricket. They won't play it to any, uh, to any sort of measure. That will be interesting. We'll have, we'll have England into Australia who already play lots of five match series against each other, just playing each other for forever more. And that will be. You know, boring. We love the ashes. We love England, India, but we, it can't, it can't be the only thing. Uh, on the table and, and you know, thank goodness in a way that South Africa have qualified for the world test championship final that lords in June, they play Australia. Uh, I mean the World Test Championship's, another matter, and it's a, i, I think I call it a shambles in, in the notes, but at least they're there and not one of the so-called other big three nations. So inequities is baked into the i, the ICC model and no one wants to do anything about it.'cause no one wants to say to India, you can have, because you generate whatever they generate 80 to 85% of global revenues. Uh, they, they're already arguing that that nearly 40% is, is roughly half of what they should be getting. But of course, free market capitalism has sort of taken over cricket where what you need is a sort of form of socialism really to, to, to save the game. And I don't see that happening. So that, that is a problem.

Mike Jakeman: 34:43

Do you get the sense that the BCCI is at all aware of these issues? Or do you get a sense of what the, the BCCI would like?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 34:53

Well, like, like all cricketing nations, their main, uh, focus is, is their own cricket. It's Indian cricket. And I get that. That's, that's, you know, all other, all other nations behave like that. It's just that they clearly have more power and therefore responsibility. And it's a question of what they do with it. They, they have it in their gift to shape the global game. We know, we know they're aware of what's going on because the, World Cricketers Association formally fiker, the sort of group of players unions put out a propo proposals a couple of weeks ago for how the game might look. And that essentially reading between the lines that it was clear that they were saying that Indian need to sort of, you know, take on a bit more responsibility and, and share the love a bit more. And then you get these, offer, these sort of faceless briefings from BCCI officials at the ICC saying. Who are the WCA we that we're not interested? We so well, everyone knows who they are. They've just changed their name from Fika. But if you follow cricket closely, you know that they're a, they're an increasingly influential group of people. So they, they kind of poo poo these ideas of let's, let's call it socialism form of a better sort of description. They're not interested in that. They are. In India, you have to remember that, that cricket is deeply entwined with politics and wealth and influence and power. Uh, the Jay Shah, who we mentioned earlier, his father is Amitha, who's the Minister of Home Affairs. That makes him pretty well, the second most powerful politician in India behind Narendra Modi. The main stadium now in India is named after Narendra Modi hosted the 223 World Cup final. Sharda, Ure did a great piece in last is wisdom about the politicization of the BCCI. You know, that they are kind of almost a, a, a sort of sporting wing now, the ruling BJP, which is part of the problem with. Uh, them not restoring cricketing ties with Pakistan. So they, they, they are aware of it. They just, they don't particularly care. Everything is rosy in their garden. And, and, and why should they change it? They've got the IPL, which effectively has its own window now, you know, no other international cricket takes place in the, whatever it is now, 10 weeks that the IPL goes on and they have, they used to be talk a couple years back over a six month IPLI think what's happened now is that the. The BCCO have these proxy tournaments around the world where IPL owners have a, have a large stake in teams in, you know, the Caribbean, South Africa. It's even happening in the hundred, you know, four of the 800 franchises have IPL involvement. So they are spreading their wealth. Uh, they, their influence and power in that way. I don't see they, they're gonna give it up. You'd need a you'd need sort of principles to Trump, pragmatism really for that to change. And you'd need the other boards, specifically England and Australia, to, push back a bit. And that, that just isn't happening.

Richard Gillis, UP: 37:28

I remember talking to Malcolm Speed, you know, at the previous generation, or probably two generations ago, if not three, and I, I, I'm wondering if it was ever, thus was there ever a great period of ICC control, you know, governance in cricket? Because he used to talk about looking around the, you know, at a board meeting. And it was, let's say it's an eclectic group of people with, you know, different needs and, uh, and wants, and this idea, I'm, I'm quite often this conversation in, goes towards why not an American model. You know, you mentioned socialism where they talk about it's central control, but the distributions are, you know, controllable and, and the rest of it, which is what the IPL is based on. In a sense, but the international bit it's probably always been a bit like that, but just the rise of India is distorting that is what we're saying, I guess.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 38:24

Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I think you go back to, I mean, o Osman Samin, the SPN Crook Info Cricket writer has done a a, an interesting piece in This's Wisdom about the 25 years of ICC. TV rights, which sounds a bit dry, but actually it tells a very interesting story about India's rise through, seen through that Prism and Jag Mahan, ALM was a, was a central figure in that, you know, pushing for India or Asia to host World Cups. He, he was the guy really who took, who moved them outta their sort of dead economy in a way, cricketing wise, and, and monetize the whole thing. In India, the Indian board used to have to pay do Door Dash and the national broadcaster to. To a broad to, to broadcast cricket. It was ridiculous. You know, they, for, for many years they were undervalued and then of course the IPL came along in 2008 and that changed everything.$1 billion deal. And suddenly India are realizing that they, they can go it a loan if they want. I mean, that their attitude is, we don't need the rest of the world. We've got this, we've got the IPL and uh, and, and who, so long as we've got the, the occasional big test series against Australia and in England, that, that, uh, that will do for us. So I think the realization that India could make money outta cricket was a, was clearly a massive turning point for the global game. We're in a position now where it is kind of entrenched administratively as well. J Jay, Shar sort of symbolizing that, and the next few years are gonna be fascinating. He, he could be in the job for six years potentially, and we'll get a clearer sense by the end of that. Precisely what direction the game is going in.

Mike Jakeman: 39:54

Last week we talked about this idea that 10 years ago, as you referenced, the big debate was about creating an exclusive window for the IPL within the international calendar, and obviously some. More forward thinking. National boards such as New Zealand Cricket realized that if they were gonna go into a fight with their own players over this, they were going to lose and just let their players go. And other boards such as the ECB stuck there were more resistant and fought a series of battles each summer about which players were allowed to go in for how long. Now I feel like 10 years have passed and the IPL has its window. But instead the conversation has become about which, where are we gonna put a window for international cricket around the franchise calendar? Because as, as you mentioned, the BCI is is controlling. has its own sort of defacto tournaments in the Caribbean, the US South Africa, now England, uh, by purchasing the teams, uh, in the, the different T 20 competitions. I wonder if the next step from this is when, let's say the Mumbai Indians contract the same players to play for them in all of these tournaments around the calendar. So the same players are playing for the Mumbai Indians In SA 20 in Major League Cricket in the US and the hundred whatever it ends up being called. and that becomes their most lucr, the players' most lucrative contract. It's going to be with their IPL owned franchise set of teams, uh, which can be very difficult for international boards to compete with. So then we end up with a sort of a concessionary window given by effectively the BCCI to when these players are allowed to go off and play for their countries. Is that, that's kind of where I see this going in maybe five years time, but I'm curious to hear what you think, Lawrence.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 41:39

Yeah, I, I think that that kind of scenario has been on the, has been discussed for a couple of years now. You know, Joffer Archer was held up as a, a guy who might, might just be employed by Mumbai Indians rather than England. I mean, England are less. Will be less sort of affected by this kind of thing because they pay their players properly. Central contracts, you're getting close to a million a year for the, for the best players, so they are kind of insulated from it. But what good will that be if they've got no other teams to play against? Because all their players, uh, have, have sort of gone down the route that you've, you've outlined there. I mean, we've seen for years with West Indies players turning down central contracts because the game is so. Uh, hard to run. Their New Zealand players have started to do it more, more regularly. Uh, south Africans, I mean, they've been coming to county cricket for years. Anyways, a different form of sort of, of talent lead if you like. The, the next, I mean, what, what you outline there I think is, is likely of course Saudi Arabia getting interested in, uh, sort of hosting. A, a kind of champions league of of cricket. There, there was talk a couple of weeks ago coming outta Australia about them pushing for a Saudi led, uh, for four tournament event involving sort of franchises from round the world, playing in probably New York, London, Mumbai, and Sydney. Uh, and, and of course, well, that's fine, but where would you fit it? And of course, ECB do not like that idea at all because. The hundred is done for them. Has they, they think as has sort of, uh, safeguarded them or future proof them really. Uh, and they don't want anything else messing that up. So an arms race has kicked in, you know, as, as every team tries to future proof as every country tries to future proof itself against the, the sort of down downturn in broadcasting rights for bilateral international cricket, that is what is suffering now. No one's that interested in, in a three match, one day series between. You know, Sri Lanka and Australia, whatever that that is, people are interested in World Cups, they're interested in in test series, and they're interested in T 20 franchises now. Cricket's. Main challenge over the next few years will be to make sure that, that the calendar isn't totally swamped. By so many T 20 franchise tournaments that there is not room to breathe for international cricket. And at the moment, cricket is not showing that it's capable of that. I quote in the notes that, the World Cricket Association reckon there are 53 leagues of one sort or another, men and women in the year in cricket and, and in 17 of those leagues, the players how either haven't been paid or at all or properly. So, but the 53, you know that it's bad enough that the, the non-payments going on. But the fact there are 53 leagues tells you the scale of the. The problem that administrators have to solve and when, when it's every man for himself and the devil take the Hy most, as Kerry Packer famously said, there is not as collaborative approach to sorting that out. I mean, the hundred is partly an attempt to kill major league cricket, you know, it's clashed with the American tournament and the money that they've got in now for, for the a hundred allows them to pay their players much more and tempt them and stop them from going over, crossing the pond to, uh, to play in America. So that it is an arms race and it's, it's become ruthless and people are not working together in the way they should for the good of the sport.

Mike Jakeman: 44:42

How embarrassing is it, do you think, for the ECB that major League cricket and, you know, we've, we've, lots of people have written about how America used to be a, a cricketing nation 120 years ago that Steve Sid has played in Major League Cricket. In the US where they have at best kind of half a, a ground that's suitable for international cricket but has not played in the hundred. I mean, that, that isn't, isn't that astonishing?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 45:12

Yeah. Well it stung them. It stung them. When Pat Cummins was asked the same question,'cause he signed a four year deal with San Francisco unicorns, I'm sure it's one of your favorite teams. And he said he was, I'll get

45:21

bucket hat.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 45:23

He, he was asked about the a hundred. He said he hadn't even thought of the a hundred. Now that with the money, in theory that is coming in from the sale of the, the, the 800 franchises, that should change that. That is a made, that is a huge relief to the ECP because it means that they shouldn't, in theory, be upstaged by, this tournament in America. So England aware of it? Absolutely. To be very aware of it. They think they've, they've reached a position now where they can, you know, crush their rivals from the States, but we shall see.

Richard Gillis, UP: 45:51

What do you think the, the money has seen in the hundred? What, in terms of why have they invested in these franchises? There's a, there's a follow on question in terms of what's gonna happen to the money. that's quite a fever debate in terms of, well when are you just giving the counties this money? And you know, where will it go? we'll put that to one side for a minute, but what do you think they've seen in the hundred that they've led them to spending this amount?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 46:18

A good question and it that was put to Richard Gould, DCB Chief Exec at a sort of briefing at Lords when he announced the money that had come in. The answer's not totally straightforward. One theory is that English cricket is the last kind of big sport to throw its doors open to private investment and therefore, uh, some private investors sort as their last chance to get the foot in their foot in the door. And the, the ECB will will tell you that. Richard Thompson, the ECB chairman, said all along, it won't be an IPL takeover. There's interest from America. The argument being that American sport likes the kind of legacy aspect of British sport. The history we've seen it with, with football teams and investors. Mm-hmm. there's the power and the influence. Obviously the, you know, the London Spirit who are based at Lords got a valuation of 295 million, which dwarfed anything else because who wouldn't want to, you know, to call Lords home for three or four weeks in the summer? That is a, that is somewhere where there's some serious networking will go on. We've got the, the chief exec of Google and Microsoft and others. Club together for that, that conglomerate to, buy the stake in, in London spirit. So it's, its power and influence, it's history. The Bannis got involved and have bought, uh, over Invincibles for 123 million and you know, the numbers are crazy really when you started to look at it and it all started to t up, so it's foot in the door. It's And, don't forget. Those figures are, as for the likes of the AM Barneys and Microsoft chief Execs and Google Chief execs, it's not, it's not, it's not a huge risk on their part really. And they think ultimately that when the new TV deal is done and people are more interested in it, they will, they will get their return that way. I. That is essentially what it is. It's, uh, they'll, they'll get their money back on, on through the TV deal. And of course that needs, a high caliber of player to take part in a hundred, which the money will help of course, if they could get Indian players. Now that will be the holy grail. But it's, I think it's unlikely the BCCI will, will exceed to that

Richard Gillis, UP: 48:12

one of the scenarios, and again, if you run that forward to the next, the other question is where the money goes. Sport, not just cricket, but football. And, you know, rugby haven't got a great record of what happens when you give them a load of cash. You know, when there is a windfall. What tends to happen is it, it sort of flows through the system to the players essentially, and the agents. But you've got this issue and you've, you've outlined it there. Okay. I'm thinking, well, Vera Coley playing at Lords. Hm, that's a, that's a, you know, a scenario that you could perfectly see happening. The price point is going to be very high because Vera Coli knows that they've now got this amount of money, and, you know, who knows? So that's just as a proxy into that. If that's writ large, then this idea that the hundred is going to transform the fortunes of county cricket and it will flood through to the, to the system, that's gonna take a lot of very, very. Precise and careful management, and I'm just wondering what you think about that. So the, the worry is an all for players paying, being paid, what they're, what they're worth. But if it just flows through, then it will be of limited use, won't it?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 49:29

Yeah, I think that's a fair point. Easy beer are aware of that. They say they, they, they're talking about guardrails, you know, as if the Yeah, as if the counties are sort of toddlers who can't be trusted not to fall down the stairs. I mean, we used to talk about,

Richard Gillis, UP: 49:41

we used to talk about banks and guardrails.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 49:43

Right? Okay. Yeah. Well, they, they, they, they are worried that the money will be wasted. Now they're in private, they'll say, so let, I'll give the listeners a bit of perspective on the, the money that's come in. We're talking about, I. Uh, so the to has been valued at 975 million pounds, of which 520 million is, kind of, has been invested already. The rest is being sort of, uh, saved up by the eight Fran host franchises. They can sell as they wish, but let's say 520 millions come in. The debt in county cricket last year was said to be something like 200 million. So you can see what most counties live year to year. If they post a profit, they're delighted. The non, the 11 non hosts counties stand to get from this initial outlay something in the late 20 millions. Now, the ECB annual turnover in the 2324 return was 25 million. So the, these are, these are mind blowing figures. Yeah. For county cricket and the ECBs position in private is, look, if the counties can't make 28 million pounds work for them, then Sodom. We have given them, we've given them every chance to exist and, and thrive for the next, uh, 20, 25 years, is what Richard Gould keeps saying. So it is, they, they, ECB, regarded as absolutely key that the money is spent properly. And that means it doesn't go on, it is not splashed on very expensive overseas coaches. It's not splashed out on. Short term overseas signings who you know might get you to the T 20 blast final. It is spent properly. That's partly why 10%, the first 10% of the, the money that's come in is, will go to grassroots cricket. Uh, and, and the non host counties benefit more than the host counties from the initial outlay. But of course, the host counties have this percentage up their sleeve that they can keep for later. But what happens when the money runs out? That question hasn't been answered yet.

Richard Gillis, UP: 51:31

What and when you transpose that to football, so the football is always about incentives in the championship to get outta the championship into the Premier League, and that's where the money kicks in. I'm trying to, I mean, I'm, I, you know, I'm here in Brighton and I go to Hove every now and then, and it's, it's, you know, it's obviously locked. It's not in the hundred. And it's a sort of weird atmosphere sometimes that you, you know, that actually it's sort of happening, but it doesn't feel connected to this other story in some way. But the money will come in and sometimes I sit there and wonder what's the incentive? Where would I spend the money? Whether it's infrastructure or you know, it's stadium and whatever, or I just wonder where they will as an investment. I'm thinking. There's always a, you know, you can always spend money and, and it's a sort of patronage and it's supporting, it's almost a charitable donation to, you know, a county. But actually if I'm the county chairman or CEO, I'm wondering how I actually turn that money into more money, which is what,

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 52:34

yeah, I, I think that's a very good question. And, and each county will have their own answer to that because it's 18 separate business models. I mean, Warwick Extra, for example, will, uh, want to read, uh, redevelop Edge at the cost of something like 47 million pounds over the next few years. That's not long after their most recent redevelopment. So, and the incentive there though, Lawrence, is to

Richard Gillis, UP: 52:54

be a test ground. So the test grounds, that's a sort of, it's almost like a, again, I don't wanna make football age all the time, but there is a sort of Champions League money question where if you can get into that group, yes, there is a different thing that kicks in. And I can see that from. You know, and we had Stuart Canon recently talking about, you know, the how to run Warwick shear essentially, and the ticketing questions and all of these things. Mm. But actually getting into that group, that's a different incentive set to something like Sussex or Darby Shear or Worcester.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 53:25

Yes, absolutely. I mean, what, so if you think that England now hosts basically six home summer tests and Lords generally gets two and the Oval pretty well always gets one. So then you're looking at the other, I think seven. Test grounds in England and Wales sharing three games, and that obviously doesn't work. You know, there, there's, there's always a scramble, a mad scramble. You know, Hampshire have kind of jumped the queue a bit with the, the excellent work Rob Bransgrove has done at the. The Rose Bowl, they're hosting an Ashes test in 2027. They're very excited about that. But it, it is the arms race we were talking about earlier on, the international stage is very much happening in county cricket. So they, they all want to stay ahead of the game. They all want to make sure that they are in the, the front of the queue for, for a to host a test match. Sussex are an, you know, they, they of course got that endowment from Spend Karma many years ago, which, uh, bankrolled them for a few years and they did, they did some good work with it, but there's not a hell of a lot of room at Hove to. To develop the ground and would you want to do it anyway? Do you wanna get rid of the deck chairs at the, the, the, the far end that looking down the slope towards the sea? I mean, there, those, those things are part of category. It's sort of glorious fabric and I, I think what it is is it's, it's kind of, it's it's insurance money against folding about against going under. It gives, it gives county a bit of breathing space. They can work out how to make money off season as well. They can. They can throw themselves into hosting, concerts and conferences and so on, which they're getting better at. It, it'll keep them going. ECB are very proud of the fact that no county has gone under. They always, whenever they talk with them about they, well, unlike rugby and football, where private investment hasn't led, has led to to teams going under. That hasn't happened in cricket. Well, you know, let's see what happens because the, the, the investors are in it for five years with a hundred. That, that is the deal. They have to stick around for five years. L Let's see what happens with the next TV deal. How excited will they still be then? And what will happen once the money runs out? And no one has answered that question yet.

Mike Jakeman: 55:22

Creative control over what the hundred is and how much does that matter? Because I said in our previous episode that I was astonished when the numbers came out for, for what the. The stakes were sold for, they were far in excess of what I was expecting. And the only way I can kind of logically make sense of that is that, uh, the investors weren't just buying the stake in the teams they bought, but they're buying the influence to make the tournament into what they think it should be to maximize their return, uh, assuming they get one. Naturally that makes me quite interested in how the hundred is gonna change, but I wonder if that is actually just a relatively small piece of the puzzle. Do you have any insight? On that. Um,

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 56:01

Yeah, I, I think they, I mean we've, we've seen, so these to be pushed back, the, the sort of, the moment at which the, all the due diligence would be finished. You know, they were hoping that there was this period, this eight week period of exclusion, exclusive chat to sort out that, that sort of finder details that got pushed back because it seemed that the, predictably enough, these, uh, very rich businessmen wanted to ensure that they they got a. There, there is some guarantee for, and they want the more control over the TV rights at the moment. They're all bundled up together. They say, why can't we sell, uh, specific t TV rights to India and make our money that way? And e ccb of course, wanna keep control of that. So the these are, you know, you can get dazzled by the figures. And I think to a degree the ECB have been dazzled. We've all been a bit dazzled. But the once you, once you get, you sit down across the, across the table from. These guys who are not philanthropists, they're businessmen who want to make a return, as well as the power and influence that we're talking about, it suddenly looks a bit more interesting. So that remains to be seen exactly how the next TV look, TV deal looks, and how much, how much money that will then go outta the English game. And we, we don't know yet. We just don't know.

Richard Gillis, UP: 57:09

you mentioned there at the beginning you are the constituency of the, the, the armac and, you know, being the, in the county game and the framing of the hundred versus the cliche in my head of a county member and, you know, you can sort of see where I might go with this. So this is a sport business podcast and one of, one of the interesting differences is that business question because actually. The people working who, who come on here quite regularly, they see the hundred as really interesting innovation. It's a rare example of a governing body being hugely innovative, taking, you know, a very big bet and the outcome has been, you know, jaw dropping, amounts of money flowing into the game. And you sort of see, okay, from that perspective there is a lot to like about the hundred. when I then listen, because I tap into the cricket conversation, it's the same in most sports. It's a sort of anti-business position and business in inverted commas. Is the, is it instinctively against the hundred? Is it, is the hundred something? Is that the sort of enemy of your audience? Of the almanac and the money and business people and private equity and million billionaires? These are sort of the others. The, they're, that's what they're, they're scrapping against and there's a sort of idealized time I always say, and cricket is, and I'm guilty of this in terms of thinking of, of a, of a moment in time, probably from childhood about when cricket was all great. But just talk to me about this.'cause there, there's a sort of, there are misconceptions on both sides. And when you've got a business podcast, you sort of hear. Both sides quite often and you know, sport and business sometimes work well together, but culturally, sometimes it just jars and the hundred feels like an absolute, moment like that.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 58:59

Yeah, I think that's spot on. I mean, I, I do, occasionally I go and speak to cricket societies that counties and it's full of, uh, it's, it's full of sort of wisdom reader I suppose. It's kind of. Old white men and, and county members and they, they like Red Bull Cricket and they, they, they, they absolutely detest the a hundred. They think it's the, it's the worst thing ever. And I have to explain to them and say, look, I understand your perspective from a cricketing point of view. It's, it's messed up the schedule. It's further down the white ball route, blah, blah, blah. What's gonna happen to Tess Cricket? But can I just tell you that if Leicestershire benefit to the tune of 28. Billion, will safeguard. Red Bull County Cricket and E CCB have said that all along. They want Red Bull County Cricket to thrive because test cricket matters in this country. And when you put it like that to them, sort of grumbling, but there's a kind of recognition that, okay, well we may have to swallow this if it means we get to keep watching 14. So sort of

Richard Gillis, UP: 59:50

necessary evil is as good as the absolutely good as it'll get.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 59:54

Absolutely. It's a necessary evil. Now, when the hundred was, when plans for the a hundred were first announced, ECB handled it very poorly and basically said, we don't care about the traditionalists. They got them offside right from the start and they've never been able to take them to grab them back. Yet, you go to Under Game and you see, you know, women and children in the crowd for God's sake, and you think no, that they have succeeded in that, in that respect. Now. There's a whole other argument about whether the the hundred has had all the advantages thrown at it. It clearly has. And some people have said, why couldn't that work for the T 20 blast? I mean, it, it couldn't work because ECB needed to take control of a competition outta the county's hands.'cause they knew the counties would scupper any attempt to innovation and they wanted their own tournament to sell and make money and futureproof themselves and so on. But on that, the tra. Tradition have to concede that, that the, it has been a success from that perspective and it, and it may save the counties that they love.

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:00:47

One of the questions me and Mike talked about in a previous episode, and it's something I've talked about with a few others, is the, and I, it is interesting since the first episode, I got a few very senior people in cricket coming, uh, saying that I was too pessimistic about things and. I use the phrase managing decline.'cause quite often when in, when you talk about test cricket and counting cricket and the f the red ball game, it's often framed in those terms, the excitement and the money and the, you know, is all about IPL and White Ball. And the red ball is seen as a sort of laggard. But then you talk to people at Sky and they say, no, Scott's, you know, test cricket is brilliant. You know, we don't wanna DB bundle 2020 because Tes Cricket is. It is perfect. It, you know, it get fill schedules. It makes television, you know, sells loads of advertising throughout a year that where you haven't got football, all of these sort of tactical arguments. But they really like Tess Cricket because it's just a presence in the, in the place. Now, whether that's a UK perspective and whether actually it gets to empty stadiums and is there a route through to focusing all of the marketing energy. On test cricket or on counter cricket. That would be, I think, an interesting question for the counties. Now they've got the money, then there's always a question of, you know, it's like state schools, you always say, you know, I used to work in one. We haven't got any money, so you can't try these things. But now you have got money. It changes the equation and that excuse goes away.

1:02:13

Absolutely. I just wondering

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:02:14

what your, you know,'cause I, I, I'm always on the lookout for inner sort of interesting things that are being trialed focused on. The longer game.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:02:23

Well, this will be their challenge now. They, now they've got all this money, this, they, they can they can, they, they can try different ways of attracting people through the gate. They don't have to be apologetic about four day county cricket because it is, it should be there to stay. Now the, the ECB are hoping that conversations around sort of demutualization and taking the, the county out of, the hands of the members as Hampshire did guys in Yorkshire have been discussing it, but of course they've now their debt because they sold all of their percentage hydro pads. So DCB think that that will, ironically, that the influx of private money into the game will mean less private investment in counties in the long run. And that the membership can take back their county to feel that it's their club again. and it will increase the sense of ownership. They needs to be like, they kind of like the. These sort of little hubs of communities that look after their county clubs and now they've got a lot of money, so they shouldn't be complaining anymore about that. You know, if it doesn't work out, it's kind of their fault from now on and needs to be a kind of quite happy to let that play out as it, as it as it will do for the next 15 or 20 years.

Mike Jakeman: 1:03:27

Do we need to worry about the way that this money's being redistributed and the opportunities that this grants to, who, uh, a hundred host counties versus non hundred host counties. In the longer term, are we going to get to a situation where even more so than we have at the moment, we have money bags, sorry, and skin the Morgan to the, like, to the extent that this is more of a problem than we have already.

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:03:58

Yeah. And that, that is another issue that the, the ECB haven't really addressed is that the, the gap ultimately will probably grow between the, the sort haves and the have nots that has been kind of camouflage to a degree because the Hurst counties do so well outta the first, so ECB sold all their 49% ownership to each of the, the investors. And of that 4%, the first 10% goes to the recreational game. and then the first 7 270 5 million is shared 19 ways. That's the 18 first Goss County and MCC. The next 150 million is shared between the 11 non hosts, but then the, the 51% that the, the, the hosts get to hold onto when that is eventually sold 10% the recreational gain, but the next 80% goes to the host county leaving only 10% to be shared between the rest. So when the, when the, the host counties eventually sell. That chunk, which they will Yorkshire have done it already. Lancashire have sold a a, a percentage of it WELS fire have sold 1%. When all that money is, is sort of factored in, the gap will grow. But the ECB will argue that that moment is, has been pushed back by, by 20 years and that, that is probably a fair argument. But all it has done effectively is kicked the can down the road. Uh, and we will still have this sort of two-tier system in county cricket where if you are a North Han or a Leicestershire or Worcestershire rbs, you are simply producing players to be picked up by Knots or Surrey or, or warwickshire. I guess that's the problem they've got with 18 first class counties is it is an imperfect system, uh, the imperfections of which have been, uh, sort of delayed for a while.

Mike Jakeman: 1:05:29

Yeah, I mean, in a sense, this is the, the same point that we made right at the start of the podcast about, about India and whether anybody in cricket is willing to take less of the pie for themselves in order to maintain the health of the, the, the sport as a whole. And it. It doesn't feel very nice to the BCCI to ponder that and it, and it won't for sury

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:05:46

either. No. I mean, look, I'm, I'm very, very aware when I say these things that this is pot idealism. But you know, if you, if you can't be idealistic in the pages of wisdom, where can you be? You know, if we're talking about being the conscience of crooked or ever, we have to kind of put this other perspective and say. That's fine. I understand the economics, but are we, are we sure where the game is going, the direction we want it to? And you come up against the, kind of the real politic of, of international sport.

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:06:12

I think, uh, the, the world test championship, I think is, is, is a really sort of interesting one because, well, in, in a sense, in a broad sense, you put you, you, you call it there. That's a great phrase. I'm just gonna use it. Uh, a shambles masquerading as a showpiece. So when it was launched, I remember it being all about narrative and te you know, reframing of the narrative of the test cricket calendar and changing the sort of incentives from the, traditional sort of bilateral weird thing, you know, way in which cricket has evolved. In trying to find, and every sport tries to find a Formula one, you know, there's a, there's a sort of sport by McKinsey playbook where everything is trying to condense into simple narrative, simple storylines, and, you know, a winner at the, an obvious winner at the end. What's gone wrong in your eyes, and is it a format question or is it just, is it just that they, maybe it's just a money quote. There wasn't enough money in it. To shift people's attention?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:07:14

No, I, I think the narrative side of it's been good. I mean, this year's edition, or the editions going for the last two years will culminate at Lords in June. There were about five teams who could still qualify going into the sort of last six months, and that gave all those series extra context that they wouldn't have previously had. So that side of it is fine. The, the shambles comment is, is about the, the structure in the organization of it. We have, we've had a situation where, all the teams play different numbers of games against different opponents, uh, in series of different lengths. And to calculate where they finish, you have to, there's a percentage of the points you can get is totally unfathomable to the average sports fan. And that, that to me is a major problem with any, any system. And one of the, one of the reasons the, the, the football travels so well is because. You get three points for a win, one for a draw, and anyone can work out where the hell your team is after the game is finished. Now with the, the world test championship, that is not possible. So the simplicity is lacking because, the sort of structure is so inequitable. You know, South Africa have got to the final by playing a, a se sequence of two match series against lesser nations. They haven't had to play Australia or England. I'm not saying they'd have, England would necessarily have beaten them, but they've not had to play some of the bigger guns that they had two tests against India, which was at home, and they drew one all. But a Australia have taken this completely other route where they have to play five tests series against India and and England. And it seems ludicrous to me that the two can end up meeting in the same place. It's not South Africa's fault. It is the fault of the big three who just play each other the whole time and don't, don't play the rest. So my proposal, I. Such as it is, is, is that we extend it to a four year cycle. You know, cricket, football and rugby work on essentially on four year cycles. And that works quite well. And that would give time for all the teams to play each other home and away in series of at least three tests. You know, get some proper narrative. And then we reach a, an easy to follow, uh, simple, equitable, balanced system. And we can still celebrate tes cricket and have a winner at the end of it. But we don't have this absolute mishmash where you're looking at. 68.4%. Uh, and that includes 19 points docked for slow over rates two years ago. I mean, absolute madness. A great idea ruined by by stupidity, really. So, we'll see. They probably won't listen to it. I

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:09:27

remember talking to U Afer about the u the European Nations League, and it was like a sort of, I, I had a ine at the end, you know, they were talking about coefficients and, you know, and it was just, yeah, make it simple. It. It is, and it's, but with all these things, simplicity is really hard against that chaos of a calendar isn't, it's trying to, that's the sort of,

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:09:48

yeah.

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:09:48

the good people have tried something good here and been defeated by the, I know, real politic of it, or just the structural problems of trying to, you know, and it's without a complete, you know, taking away of the old system and a replacement. With something else. It's never, it is always gonna be a compromise. That said, it's been some fantastic test Cricket, hasn't it, over the last Oh,

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:10:12

brilliant. Well, that, and that's the crying shame. It's, it is a great, it's still a great format and it is why I sort of pushed back a bit against the suggestions of two divisions in test cricket because, I mean, let's just look at the last 18 months we had West Indies winning, famously winning a test at Brisbane, eight runs. You know, that really the, the world game on its feet. Bangladesh won a series in Pakistan that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago. Sri Lanka won a test at the Oval. I know they'd already lost a series, but nonetheless, uh, west Indies ended up squaring a series in Pakistan recently, India won the first test in Australia, then lost the next three. It's very competitive. It's more competitive than people give it credit for, and that's why I think a a properly organized world test championship could really get people interested even more than they have done now. I, I like the idea. It, it's, it, it makes absolute sense that there is a sort of culmination of. Uh, of, of, of the best test teams. But at the moment it's just it's messy. I mean, interesting. Actually, one of my sort of predecessors is Wisner and Matthew Engel, many years ago came up with the Wisdom World Test Championship and it was based on a very simple formula where if you won a series, no matter what the length, you'd get two points. And if you drew, you'd get one. And then when those two teams next met each other, that would result, would replace the old one, and you'd recalculate the points and teams would be moving up and down. And actually when England lost to New Zealand at the Oval in 1999, NASA Saints first series as Captain, the headline was that England had gone to the bottom of the Wisdom World Test Championship, and that still gets held against them. England were officially the worst team in the world. That was the greatest triumph for the Wisdom World Test Championship. But of course, it was too simple. People didn't like the fact that you could only get two points for a win and one for a draw. But actually Matthew was onto something there, and his main goal was to keep it simple. And Cricket doesn't do that enough.

Mike Jakeman: 1:11:56

I was actually gonna mention the very same example, but the point that I drew from that is that Matthew suggested this, I think 1993. It took all those years to, and, and yeah. And, and here we are arguing about it's still and Marty Crow

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:12:11

talking about, was it Cricket Min or or

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:12:14

Max Cricket. Max. Cricket Max, that's right. Yeah. 12 for a straight hit down the ground. Yeah, I mean, he was ahead of his time as well. I mean, I think people didn't like the fact you could score 12 or one ball, but, but actually it was a forerunner E 20. Really? So yeah, people don't like cricket.

Richard Gillis, UP: 1:12:28

Right. Let's end on a uh, a nice upbeat. Summary, Lawrence from the of your, of the, of the, uh, of the last year, just give us a sense of your levels of optimism, pessimism about cricket generally, as the, as we'd said, the conscience is quite a, quite a, you know, quite a, a mantle that we've given you, but Well, what's your, what's your, uh, your take?

Lawrence Booth, Wisden Almanack: 1:12:51

Well, to me, cricket is still the best sport in the world and always has been. And if we look after it, well it will thrive because it is a great sport. England are playing fascinating test. Cricket basketball has been thrilling to watch. I know obviously it's upset traditionalists, but the test team are, are far more watchable than they used to be, uh, and, and have been far more successful. So we've got a five test series against India, the ashes in the winter. If England win one or both of those, that'll give a huge boost to the game in this country, and let's hope that the administrators can get their heads together and sort out a sensible schedule for the game as a whole. So there's, there's some optimism for you. I love it. I love it. I love a bit of optimism. Fantastic. Cheers, Lawrence, for your time. Really enjoyed it. Thanks, Richard. Thanks for having me on. And Mike,