Unofficial Partner Podcast
Unofficial Partner Podcast
UP483 Wedge Issues: Overthinking the Golf Business
Is there a market for a women-only golf talent agency?
Suzann Pettersen is about to find out.
Pettersen is one of the most recognized players in the women's game, a two-time Major winner, 15 time LPGA Tour winner and Solheim Cup winning captain. Now she's launched VOXA, a talent management group in conjunction with 54.
It's asking questions about what the market wants from women players today. The balance between performance and the creator market, and attempting to reproduce a team ethos among a famously solo profession.
"I remember some of the tournaments that I won, you come back to the hotel room. It's you and the trophy. It's quite lonely. The trophy stares at you and it doesn't give you any response."
This episode of the Unofficial Partner podcast is brought to you by Sid Lee Sport.
Sid Lee Sport is a new breed of agency that combines world class creativity with deep sponsorship expertise, flawless operational delivery, and a culture of marketing effectiveness.
We’ve really enjoyed getting to know their team over the last couple of months. They’re an impressive bunch, who believe that sports marketing can and should be done better.
They have a creative philosophy of producing famous campaigns and activations that build buzz and conversation in a category that too often looks and sounds the same.
And they're pioneering a new standard of effectiveness in sports marketing, using econometrics and attribution models to go beyond traditional media ROI.
So if you're looking for an agency to take your brand to the top, get in touch with the team at Sid Lee Sport, where brands become champions.
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hello, Richard Gillis here. Welcome to Wedge Issues Artificial Partners Golf Business podcast. And with me is Jasmine Sanders as ever.
Jasmine Sanders:Hello everyone.
Richard Gillis, UP:How are you doing? What have you been up to?
Jasmine Sanders:Good. Yeah, really good. Thank you. I went to a really cool space last week actually, which deserves a mention. It's called, uh, style of Our Own on Regent Street. Uh, and it's, it's just the coolest popup, solely dedicated to women's sports. Women's clothing, independent women owned brands, and it is, it's really cool. There's even a three side football pitch on the first floor. They're gonna host loads of events throughout the summer. Clean Bandit made an appearance that was nice and unexpected. And yeah, there's just gonna be loads of events, football, tennis, golf lifting, women's focus, you know, sport underwear, you name it, they've got it Also potentially a football event. I hear.
Richard Gillis, UP:there is a football event. There is expected goals live our first live, podcast with Maggie and Matt over expected goals, our sister podcast. So yeah. Is it just that, is it the bit just up from the Apple store? I.
Jasmine Sanders:Yes, it's right next to the Apple store. It's in the old Ted Baker space, so it is literally bang next to the, the Apple store and you can't miss it. I mean, the branding is colorful, it's vibrant, it's, yeah, it, it's really cool. So you can pop in just to buy some sports gear. Um, but there's also events and coaching and, you know, I think they're doing like organized runs and obviously podcasts and, watch parties for some really big events on the women's calendar. So it's gonna be a really. Just funky, vibrant space to, to go to over the summer.
Richard Gillis, UP:And I think Michelle Kang is behind it on MasterCard. I see sponsoring it
Jasmine Sanders:MasterCard? Yes. It's founded by, um, Laura, Youngs, um, at ida. Um, and if you've not heard of Ida, they are the,
Richard Gillis, UP:They've been on the podcast either Laura Laura's been on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah.
Jasmine Sanders:So yeah. I think MasterCard and, and others and it's yeah, a real joint effort. So, um, get yourself down there.
This episode of Unofficial Partner is brought to you by Sid Lee Sport. Sid Lee Sport is a new breed of agency that combines world class creativity with deep sponsorship expertise, flawless operational delivery. And a culture of marketing effectiveness. We've got to know the team over the last few months. They're an impressive bunch who believe that sports marketing can and should be done better. They've got a creative philosophy of producing famous campaigns and activations that build buzz and conversation in a category that too often looks and sounds the same. And they're pioneering a new standard of effectiveness in sports marketing using econometrics and attribution models to go beyond traditional media, ROI. So if you're looking for an agency to take your brand to the top, get in touch with the team at Sid Lee Sport where brands become champions.
Richard Gillis, UP:Right. Suzanne Paterson, this was a bit of a coup. I really enjoyed this conversation.
Jasmine Sanders:Me too. Me too. Really interesting.
Richard Gillis, UP:people will sort think of it in terms of a management company, but it's, it's, it feels like she's really put her heart and soul into trying to work out what her career needed whilst she was on the tour. And now what she's then gonna try and do, and obviously she's in collaboration with 54 who are linked very centrally in golf to lots of things, not most notably live golf. There's the golfers creator. We know what is a golfer now, what a career looks like these days, what the incentive set is for golfers men and women in terms of their relationship with the social media platforms and how they build their own brands. And it talks to our previous. Podcast with the guys from Manners, which we'll link in the, uh, show notes. But that was all about, uh, if you are a brand, how do you reach this new, exciting audience for the game, which isn't the traditional. Green grass club pro shops, and a small handful of, of retailers. So what do you do now? How do you market and how do you get your product in the hands of the, the customers? It's fascinating stuff.
Jasmine Sanders:I mean, it's, first of its kind as well in the golfing space that it's a, a women's only agency that is going to be covering. Women in the professional space, but also I think from, from our discussion, there's appetite to look at those who are, you know, up and coming, coming through the amateur pathway, noticing talent, nurturing talent, then through the professional pathway. So, um, I think, you know, obviously it is still early days. They, they've only recently launched, but it's, you know, it should be really exciting.
Richard Gillis, UP:And the players that she's got lined up.
Jasmine Sanders:Yeah, there's quite, there's quite a mix. So we've got, uh, China's, world number four, Ronnie Yin, who I've actually played golf with. Very, very cool. LPJ veteran Carlos nda, who, you might have most recently recognized from holding the putt to retain. The cup at, uh, finger called scene, so Lime Cup in Spain. and then a lot of up and coming players, top players in their country. So there's, you know, top player from Singapore. We've got top player from Mexico, Gabby Lopez. And I, I guess the roster will continue to grow.
Richard Gillis, UP:And there was a, there's a question that we talk about in terms of the, the role of those players, and it's that local market question. You know, and we all quite often talk about, you know, sports, globalization But actually a lot of golfers, their appeal is very local, is regional. So it's quite an interesting mix of golfers from that point of view. Right. We should hand over to Suzanne Pederson and we'll, uh, I'll see you on the other
Jasmine Sanders:Indeed.
Richard Gillis, UP:So Jasmine, I've been looking forward to this. We've been talking about doing this for a long time, and I'm really thrilled to get Suzanne on. I want to first talk, first of all, hello Suzanne. We should say hello to
Suzann Pettersen:Hello. Nice to have you. Nice to meet you.
Richard Gillis, UP:Where, where are you?
Suzann Pettersen:I'm actually, as we speak. I'm in Oslo, Norway where I currently live or base ourself.
Richard Gillis, UP:Right. Okay. we need to sort of talk about Suzanne as though she's not here for, for, for a couple of minutes just to set up, and we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk Voxer and we're gonna talk about the business of golf and management and all of these things, but just. Suzanne, someone who I sort of have watched her career over, over time, but what's your take? Give us a, set it up for us.
Jasmine Sanders:Oh, I've been a fan of Suzanne for such a long time. I mean, we've met and obviously we've had a few interviews together and, and, you never fail to impress. So I'd introduce her as over 20 wins across the LET and LPGA multiple major winner I. Solheim Cup captain, of course, as we can see from the photo in the background. I must say in the most epic fashion
Richard Gillis, UP:Hmm.
Jasmine Sanders:and I was lucky enough to be there that 18th green when that all unfolded, and it is still one of my favorite moments. So, that I think is how I would introduce Suzanne fet.
Richard Gillis, UP:not a bad intro, Suzanne, is it?
Suzann Pettersen:Lord just feels ages ago.
Richard Gillis, UP:That feeling never goes away by the way.
Suzann Pettersen:Oh, I mean, now that I can kind of sit and kind of look back on what was an epic journey, I want to call it a journey because that's what it is. Uh, you live in a, in a bubble as an athlete, a 24 7 kind of life for say 20 years. And, um. Not everyone is fortunate to do that. Day in, day out you don't look at us as a job. It's your biggest passion in life, uh, is where your heart uh, is and, um, you're just willing to sacrifice everything and anything just to kind of get. Half a percent or one quarter of a percent better each and every day. So I mean, it's a very fortunate situation to be in. I started the game when I was five, six. My oldest is now, he turned seven. So, I've. I kind of see myself a little bit in him. that I was so keen on golf so early, and I still don't know why. Uh, I think it's, the, the complex of the game, just drove me nuts from the very get go. There's so many like different kind of.
Richard Gillis, UP:I think. Tell me about it. Suzanne
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah, I'm back to the complexity right now as a whole big golfer, but you know, there's so many kind of great contributions, from the game to my personal life and vice versa. So, looking back, it's just, uh, it's been an epic, fairy tale.
Richard Gillis, UP:Let's talk about because I think this is a really good way into a bit of this conversation is what, what's it like being a professional golfer? But I just wanna know what is, let's. Set it up. What is Voxer? Why, why? Let's get to the, what's the point of it? Why is it, why have you done this now?
Suzann Pettersen:Well, Voxer was created after a good round of discussion dialogue together with 54. Uh, we were talking, uh, and talking and talking and we were like talking about a lot of different possibilities, opportunities, and we all looked at each other and said, why don't we just do talents. I mean, I feel like I've lived and kind of breathed this, uh, life for 20 years. I have a lot of great experience. I feel like I've been through the entire circle of life within the industry within a lot of the. Big companies. I have a lot of great experiences. I have some less great experiences. I feel like I have a lot to contribute to. And obviously with the powerhouse of 54, we decided to create Voxer. Um, I think we had a lot of different rounds of what should we call this company? Uh, but I think we landed on Voxer in the sense that. Every voice counts. Every female athlete has a voice. We want to embrace that story. And Voxer obviously comes from uh, Vox in Latin, which means voice. So it all made sense and the more it kind of grew on us for each and every day, we just decided let's jump on the ship. But I wanna say, I mean, I never saw my. I did have a dream. I've had a lot of dreams throughout my life, but, uh, uh, one dream that I had, which I nearly executed on, uh, which was back in 2000 and, uh, I think the, the idea started popping in like 2011, 2012, 2013. I had an idea of. Wanting to kind of create like a private team, uh, within golf with say, like I always saw it, like if I could get the four best players in the world, we create our own team. Uh, I always believed I. Helping each other is gonna make you better, even if it's your Feistiest competitor. I think supporting each other, helping each other out will kind of make you a better person and will make you a better player. So I always thought that would be a great thing to do and kind of create kind of an. Management within that private team, but I was still big time into playing myself and I just thought I can do both of it. So way back, I had this passion for something similar to what Voxer is doing today. So I wouldn't say this is a new dream that just popped up because it was there back in like, say 12, 13 years ago. But I believe. There's room for a Voxer in the marketplace of industries of management companies within golf and sports, but especially within golf that we know so well. And if we couldn't make a difference in this landscape, I would never have been part of this journey.
Richard Gillis, UP:so what is, let's just get to that. This is a business podcast, so where does the money come from? Is it a, are you commercial, are you doing commercial deals for the players? You've got a, a roster of players. Is it a, you are negotiating with Callaway Ping Tailor made the nuts and bolts of. That and where the money's coming from? Are you taking, is that a traditional sort of management agency model?
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah, so we are a talent, uh, management company. Trying to really specif, uh, like specifically within women's, uh, athletes really having that as a high priority. But it's more of a tailored solutions for each individual that we bring on board. Right. So we are, uh, we do all the traditional pillars that a management company would, would do, like the ABCs I call it. We do a day-to-day service. We do financial support, we do commercial deal, we do, we build their own brand. We build kind of their storyline. It's everything like the A, B, C, and every player requires different. Solutions, right? I mean, a young player who's just upcoming might not be as experienced with it. Like a day-to-day travel logistics might need a bit more hands on, on that part while, uh, say, uh, more experienced, say like a Gabby Lopez that we onboarded. She loves to do all that herself. Uh, it's kind of, she's on top of it. We are more of a different support for her than we potentially are for say, uh, uh, runny running in. So, we do anything from mentorship, financial stability, on and off the course. We want the girls to have a secure kind of financial platform to develop their. Skills to be, have? No. Um, what would you say? There shouldn't be any kind of questions or worries of, uh, uh, the financial kind of support that each individual should have. We wanted to go on the golf course, really focusing on just performing and everything else is taken care of. We want the girls. To have the longevity of a great career. And every everyone's dream is different. What is, uh, how do you see yourself after? End of career where I am today.
Richard Gillis, UP:Hmm.
Suzann Pettersen:When I was, uh, in kind of in my prime it was always hard. People say, what are you gonna do when you retire? I mean, I always thought it was such a hard question and the, the closer I got to that finishing line I felt like that was like the question I was asked all the time. And it almost like upset me in a way because I'm like, well, my, my. My mind is not there yet, so I can't answer that. But obviously I love sports. I mean, you're trying to kind of create all this, but to have a team in the background that can help build you know, your legacy off the golf course while you're still playing, while you're still active, it's a very kind of important part for a lot of these girls. Do you go and wanna stay within the game? Do you wanna be more of a speaker? Do you wanna encourage more young girls into sports, into golf? Academies? Is it do you wanna start a clothing brand? I mean, there's so many different aspects, but the longevity of also like thinking. What does my legacy look like? Where do I see myself after I'm done playing? I mean, this is maybe not so up in the front of someone's mind that's just starting their career at the age of 19 18, 19 20. But if you talk to a player who's like mid thirties, they maybe wanna have a family. They wanna have, I mean. The lo, that's the beauty within golf is that first of all, you have the age span within the player group. You have. I mean, my last days on my last years on tour, I could literally be the mom of some of these girls that I competed against. But that's the beauty. But then you also have different kind of perspectives of where you are in life and what your focus is on. So we want to be like a. We don't wanna be like anyone else. We wanna be a disruptive kind of new fresh. Breath into this world. Obviously, like I said, I've been a part of the big agencies out there like the IMG, the Wasserman. I've been a part of smaller houses, uh, at the end that did most of it in-house. Uh, because then you actually have a lot of the experience, you have that a lot of the network. But that is one thing, but we want also.
Richard Gillis, UP:there's a question there. Sorry, Suzanne. There's a, there's a question there about When I, we, we've had lots of agencies on not golf agencies, but just ge, you know, general IMGs of this world, CAA, Wasserman and. Quite often when you sort of dig below the surface a little bit, there is a sort of 80 20 thing where they devote a lot of time to a small number of their players. And they sort of over service them because they're generating a large proportion of the money because they're most famous, you know, and then you get to the situation where they're vulnerable to the individual star. So a Tiger Woods or a Rory McElroy in men's game would say, right, okay, I, or I need to just do, do this myself. I'm gonna take my agent and I'm gonna go off and start on my own. So there's a sort of that dynamic. Did you find that within. The big agencies.
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah, and I think that is one of the big hurdles you find in this industry. It's so easy to feel like you're a small fish in a big pond, uh, even if you're like dominating within. Your sport. Like I, I can only talk for myself like through my experience, but like, even like winning majors, like winning like lots of tournaments, sometimes you don't necessarily feel like you get the highest priority and I don't know if that's a great feel. I don't think anyone would like to kind of feel like that, but that is unfortunately, uh, something that a lot of these players, they still feel like that. And to us, I mean, whoever we take on. Has exact same priority in our system that, uh, it doesn't matter your rank. I mean, when we onboarded the five we did starting this year, I mean it, we kind of have a storyline. We onboarded like the number ones in their respective countries or, um, say top 20 in the world. But all of that has a very similar storyline. You have the number one in Spain, you have the number one in Mexico. You have the one number one in China, you have the number one in Malaysia, Singapore. There's a very similar storyline within our current player dynamic, which I think is, is a great story. But at the same time you know, uh. Also what players are missing. And I felt I wanted more of, and I, I think was also part of why I started thinking in that direction like 12, 13 years ago, is that you still, I mean, golf is a very individual sport that we all agree to that uh, we all kind, you kind of create, you have to create your own team to kind of. Get the expertise that you want to kind of drive you up through the ranks. Like you, you hire a physio, you hire a technical coach, you hire a mentor, you hire, you know, caddies and all of this, but are you, you don't necessarily feel like you're part of something, and this is what Voxer probably has. This is where I'm gonna put most of my emphasis. I want this to be like a family. Everyone is like, I want this. If you think about it as a Formula One team, you have one big umbrella. You have obviously individual drivers. I. And we are there to support their individual careers, but we want them to be part of something bigger. We want this unity of a family oriented atmosphere where, you know, um. Pushing each other is a great thing. Having each other's back, you feel like you're part of a team. So we don't necessarily want to call Voxa a management company. We want to call it Team Voxa because we look at ourself as a team. We are there to support each other, uh, for the good and the bads. But I really feel the players are really loving that part of our story. That we are really gonna emphasize on and to help create a better. Atmosphere for the players to literally go out and perform the, uh, even better. And so far I think, uh, that is my main priority. My big, big, big focus. It's kind of funny how this has all kind of turned. At first I was like. First you start play golf and you go through the juniors and you go through the amateurs. Then you turn pro a lot of experience in kind of that transition. You start playing, you start winning, you start kind of winning majors. You're part of the solheim you do the kind of vice captaincy, then you do the captaincy. You kind of, towards the end of my career, I did more so like my networking kind of, um, commercial partnerships myself. So I feel like I've been, and now I'm sitting on like the management side, so I feel like I've literally been around the table. So now I'm sitting on the opposite side of the table uh, where I used to kind of negotiate as a player. So I think, uh, all in all, um, we have a great powerhouse within Voxer, uh, with a partnership with 54. And for me, I. Team is the ultimate thing to succeed. No matter what you do, you'll never gonna be able to be the number one by yourself. You need help on along the way. And for me, when I met, uh, the team of 54, I met similar minds. I met great people with great expertise. So for me to team up with. 54 to kind of create boxer was essential. It's all in the people. Uh, not necessarily. Um, anything else.
Richard Gillis, UP:Jasmine, what do you think?
Jasmine Sanders:Yeah, I was gonna say as as Voxer and 54 don't represent any professional male players, how will you ensure? Benchmarking, I guess, in terms of fees and ensuring you know that your women are being valued and paid fairly.
Suzann Pettersen:You know, one big vision that we have in Boxer is we want to be a, we want to be part of the bigger ecosystem within helping elevating women's sport, uh, women's sport and golf. But we want to be part of creating a, like a stronger system in the landscape. Within sports anything from the commercial value, um, you know, pushing price, money it's, uh, tv viewings, uh, you know, all of the above. That kind of helps women's golf as a product being elevated to a level whether it deserve to be. Uh, I still think, uh, women's golf is. Underachieving of where they should be. It's easy to, it's always easy to kind of compare against the guys, and I think you'll always feel like you're on the losing side, uh, of that kind of rally. But I think if you look at other women's sports, look at. Soccer, look at the women's NBA. Uh, I think the time is now. I think the time to really start pushing women's sports, women's golf into the next kind of tier is right now, and we're super happy to be part of that. We want to be. In it, in collaboration with all other parties within the industry. Because I think, again, you're not gonna succeed on your own. So you have to kind of help each other elevate each other. And I think it's important that you have one, um, say a Voxer who can kind of lead the way because you need somebody to kind of break those barriers as well.
Richard Gillis, UP:Is a bit odd. Do you think It's a bit, I, I was thinking the other day about, you know, the sort of new golf properties that are. Pitched up. So Liv is the obvious one, TGL and the absence of women is quite a weird one. What do you think? What's, why? Why and how has that happened? Why have they made that decision do you think?
Suzann Pettersen:That's a very good question. That was, that was my first question. Like, you know, uh, when Liv, uh, uh, was born and all the money that was put into the, into the game of golf, what money was put into the women's side, I don't know. Uh, it's yet to be seen, right? So, I know there will be some changes. Somewhere in the future within the women's game. How, I'm not sure when, not sure, but I think it needs to start with us pushing kind of the pedal. And that is like, you know, um, I think help, uh, raising and speaking the athlete's voice, I. Telling their stories, building their brands. It's just parts of the solution of how we can kind of get a, a bigger land, bigger, I don't know, atmosphere within women's sports.
Jasmine Sanders:How, how does that work in kind of practical day-to-day terms? Obviously you say you want to give female athletes a, you know, a real voice. What does that mean? Prac practically?
Suzann Pettersen:I mean, it's like, I can just take some of our players that we work with, I mean. You do the ABCs, uh, which is like mostly the day-to-day service that, uh, the player requires. But then in the background, we have a powerhouse of the commercial team who kind of helps bringing new partnerships on board the longevity of great partnerships. You know, you don't want necessarily want just a partnership just to kind of get x. Money in. You want something that is, has the same values as something I'd like. You also see the longevity in partnerships with commercially. Uh, I mean, I can only speak for myself. I mean, I was with Nike for almost, uh, since 2007. I'm still with Dow, uh, that sign in 2007. So I mean, the longevity of partnerships is quite important. But at the same time, you know, building. Your brand in your respective countries that also grows more globally on a global scale to be able to grow it on a global scale. You need, obviously the network and you need um, locations around the world that kind of looks after each individual. So I think that is kind of, I don't want the players to go and think about all these, like, less important things, but I want us to work on it in the background and they know they can go to bed in peace knowing, you know what? I go on the golf course and I perform. I have a team behind me who does all that is in their power to help create a better household name for me and myself, my team that I will most likely benefit on. On and off the golf course. So, um, you don't want players to go around and like, think about all these commercial. I mean, that should be taken care of and it shouldn't be that a player needs to kind of chase down the agent to kind of either get a payment that's outstanding or push them to kind of get on calls or like. This is like, I see this as a no-brainer. I mean, that's like the least thing that an agent should do follow up. And so, I mean there are so many different, uh,
Richard Gillis, UP:We are also, I think we're also at an interesting time in terms of the what a golf a sports star is now in terms of
Jasmine Sanders:is
Richard Gillis, UP:content, that creator thing.
Suzann Pettersen:look at social media, how much.
Jasmine Sanders:that was gonna be my next question. You know, when you've got so many golfers, like say, Bryson is the first one that pops into my head. How much is content going to play a part in your strategy for those who you know you represent? Are you looking at YouTube? Are you looking at podcasts? Are you looking at all the short form content? Also, I guess as a way to increase exposure you know, when we can acknowledge that women's sports does still suffer from limited airtime in the, in the traditional kind of TV senses.
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah, I mean, social media has changed the world for everyone, for the good and bad. But for, from, uh, an athlete standpoint or an entertainer, the. The angles of I mean, you, you get into so many different kind of territories through social media which is important. I mean, some cares about it, some care less about it, and some knows a lot more how to handle that. I'm probably on the lower side. I'm not, I, I love sharing some, but I'm not necessarily professional in it, so I need. More, more professional help on that side to help develop a great platform. Rick Shields is a great uh, examples of influencer who's kind of, uh, has been put into a system within the golf industry and look what what he's accomplished. So you need professional help and
Richard Gillis, UP:these two things. It is interesting. We had Rick on the, this podcast and one of the questions was, why is he popular? And get to the difference between him and Bryson. Bryson is the one he worries about, by the way. So the, because Bryson appears to have both of the things going on at the same time. He's got it, you know, he's, he's. Let's put him to one side for a minute. But someone like Rick Shields, he's not selling performance, he's selling sort of amiability and access entertainment and it's, and for a golfer, so for someone like a Nelly Cord or a Charlie Hull, they are selling, you know? Well, it's quite interesting question in terms of what. they are now.'cause I get service served a lot of Charlie Hole smoking type stuff. I get a lot of Nelly cord at the Met Gala. This is, this is more about my algorithm than it does of anything else. But I, I always wonder is that a manufactured thing? Is that someone like Voxer in a different sphere saying, well, okay, I'm gonna Nelly quarter, we're gonna sort of premiumize her brand. We are gonna sort of put her in with, you know, Taylor made presumably doing quite a bit of this work, so I'm always interested in the back end of those types of things. If it's being presented to me, I'm always wondering what, why.
Suzann Pettersen:I always believed you really have to be true to your own brand. I. You have to be true to your own personality. Who are you? I mean, don't try to be somebody that you're not, because that's gonna, in this time and day, uh, that's gonna be look through. I mean, that's just fake, right? Uh, and people don't like that. People want to be authentic, real honest. Uh, I think Charlie, I mean Charlie made, uh, probably quite a good, um. Decision herself a few years back, she decided to get more into the fitness side, and I think the way she kind of presents herself now through social media, through her own channels, not all the fake channels, I think you get like, you get an insight of what her daily life is like, what her priorities are like what she kind of likes doing. She's. She's one that I look at as she's added great value to herself through the social media platform. But then you have say, not necessarily what does Nelly really like? I'm not quite sure because it doesn't really show through her. Social media platform, but maybe it's not over her priority to kind of work that angle. But I think to create viewership, to create enthusiasm popularity within, like, not just the golfing crowd, but the world of the, the crowd generally. I think you really have to be very honest and true to your own kind of interests. I remember.
Richard Gillis, UP:that I, I think interesting que, sorry. There's an interesting sort of distinction there and now. Now you've mentioned it. I'm thinking what the brand of Nelly Cord is and it is a bit untouchable. It's a bit more of a traditional brand. You can see the way in which she's, they're positioning her with the sort of sponsor suite around, it's a bit like Emma Rad actually. She's again, being sort of pushed into that realm. At very high end. Lots of brands, lots of Porsches, lots of sort of, you know, expensive brands. And Charlie is, feels a bit more sort of approachable, perhaps a bit more. I mean, I don't know again, where Mal Bond fits into this because again, they're a brand that are an interesting new story and whether or not it's them who is sort of doing a lot of the back back office work and how much Charlie is just being, okay, we'll we'll go along with that. What do you.
Suzann Pettersen:I just think, I mean, I think it's the beauty of how, I think it's the beauty of social media, but I think it's, social media also has a lot of, uh, flares. That's not great. But I think the beauty is if you really want to invite people into your, kind of, into your life but still on distance. I think, uh, social media is, is a great platform to do that as long as it kind of, it's well managed. And, uh, like I said, the, the content is honest. Because over time that's what people really fall in love with. But I mean, uh, I remember back in the day I had this, uh, quite big, uh, commercial deal on the table and it was for, uh, some Norwegian cheese. I'm not a huge cheese person to start, so, no, but, uh, at the end of the day, I had to look myself in the mirror. And if I were to go to the grocery store and buy a cheese, this brand that I had on the table with like a huge kind of financial kind of benefit would be my last choice if I went to the grocery to, to shop it. So I said to, like, I said to myself, this is not for me. I mean, sometimes you just have to be true to yourself. And I think at. At the end of the day, you live a lot better with those decisions rather than kind of going the other way. So.
Richard Gillis, UP:that's at the other end of the scale. I mean, I've heard golfers say, I don't want to take that driver'cause it, I don't. Or that, that set of clubs, because I, they don't work the wrong cheese. That's a hiccup. I mean, talk about, you know, taking the authentic route.
Suzann Pettersen:Oh yeah. But at the same time, I mean, you find great values, uh, and great kind of storylines that combines, um, some you have to turn down because they don't, they don't fit. And then others, you, you kind of fall in love with. And then partnerships are created, which feels more like an extended family. So, um, there's pros and cons with all of this.
Richard Gillis, UP:What do you think of the, the, the, when women become famous athletes, there is always the sexualization question comes in. Let's just talk about this for a minute, because again, golf. Creators, women, golf creators, and you get to sort of page spek and that. There are lots of sort of versions of that. I'd, I'd really What's both of your views on, on this and where that pressure comes from? Is it something, again, you talk to, to individual golfers? Is there a pressure to, to conform or go that route? What do you think? Just give us your two
Suzann Pettersen:I don't know, sex cells, let's be honest, sex cells. You, you could kind of go as far as you want or just give it a, a small percentage. But at the end of the day, I think, there's no harm, uh, as long as it's within controlled frames. But yeah, I don't know. Uh,
Jasmine Sanders:is a really hard one. I think it, it, it, I always sit on the fence with this, I mean. I guess from one perspective it's absolutely a woman's right to do what she wants with her own content, with her own body, and I think that's kind of where we should lead with it. But I also do believe that women are, are held to a very different standard. You know, just, just culturally and I think women, even without wanting to, are. Sexualized and judged, not necessarily on merit, you know, talent or, or, or trophies, but actually on their appearance. Especially when we are talking about female athletes, and I don't believe that that men are, are kind of judged and, and held to that account in, in the same way. I don't love that
Suzann Pettersen:I don't, and I don't feel men is in the same kind of, territory. If you say sex sells, sex sell as, it doesn't necessarily go with the men as much as it goes with the ladies.
Jasmine Sanders:hundred, hundred percent. I mean, you know, uh, Rory McElroy, you know, still in some really kind of tight tops and we've got some really kind of tight. You know, modern joggers, are, are never kind of spoken about in a sexualized way for wearing something that's, that's tight. I mean, I wear leggings, I love leggings. I find I find them most comfortable. I'm covered from waist to ankle. And yet still, when women, women wear leggings on the, on the golf course, you know, sometimes they're, they're accused of, of sexualizing themselves when it's just actually you are wearing something that's fitted. Um, so I think. Yeah, it, it's such a tough one to, to navigate and I, you know, I haven't, I don't know the answer.
Richard Gillis, UP:Yeah, I mean, it is a big question. I mean, I was looking at we did a thing about Christiano Ronaldo, and that bloke never wears a pairs of trousers. You know, he's like, he's always got his shirt off. He's always doing underwear
Suzann Pettersen:is overdoing it. He is overkill. It he's way, he is way over the line.
Richard Gillis, UP:but we never talk about it in that,
Suzann Pettersen:No.
Richard Gillis, UP:that sense. Do we? So there's, it is a di it is a different lens. I think it also, we had an interesting thing recently where we were talking to Sky Sports about who is watching women's sport. the, the research was sort of quite surprising to me because it was made, you know, he said there was a very large middle of people, a large number of men obviously who subscribe to Sky Sports, who buy the subscriptions, who are watching everything. So they are watching bits of, you know, their women's golf, women's tennis, women's football. And the assumption is that there is a different. Audience going on. So there is a question about who is watching and whether or not who the market is, and actually whether that's changing. And we, you know, again, one of the, the narratives that you get on a podcast like this is that the, the, the rise of women's sport, it's a growth of a different audience. It's female, it's younger, it's HIPA than someone like me. It's not, you know, who's a traditional sports fan bloke. So that is an interesting story and the question is whether there's enough of them to sustain commercially. But from a sponsor's point of view, it's a really exciting story.'cause actually, so from V'S perspective, you're thinking there is a different group of sponsors that clients will appeal to potentially other than just the, you know, a bloke golfer. Is that part of the thinking in terms of the directing to a different group of commercial partners for them?
Suzann Pettersen:Well, I think you're trying to find great commercial partners for each individual to what their storyline is like, what is their brand? What are the values within their brand? What's the strength of the brand you're trying to find? Companies or partnerships that really tailors, uh, each other. It's not just what's in for me, what's in it for them. Uh, I always believed that's a great, uh, way of looking at it. I mean, um. And it, it takes, uh, some work to kind of find those kind of measurements that kind of finds each other on that route. But I think it's very important because you, you create partnership longevity and kind of equal measure, uh, from both sides in a partnership like that.
Jasmine Sanders:I think what
Richard Gillis, UP:Mm.
Jasmine Sanders:shouldn't be understated is the value of being a woman and having women on your team and women advocating for you in the industry. I think one of. The, the problems that I've seen and in the work that, that I do is so often we have groups of men deciding what's best for women, whether that be equipment, whether that be buying certain clothing lines and making it all pink, and all of that fun stuff. So I think, yeah, what, what shouldn't be understated as just how much benefit these players I think will have from having somebody. Not just a woman who, who gets it, but also I think Suzanne, obviously with your kind of years of experience, you can, you can lean into that as well. And you know, where you've maybe had some unfavorable contracts or contract terms, et cetera, you know, you, you can advise them on that. And I think that is, is so important especially in, in what is still, you know, a male dominated industry.
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah. But I say, I would say like within Voxer, we have so many great talents both working and as players. And my biggest, I feel like my biggest contribution asset is obviously on the performance side. And what I love the most from the solheim was kind of, I kept in touch with kind of the, the player body, uh, as a captain. And now I get to continue that, but on a little different level through kind of. The, the agency, the team Vox apart. But I mean, that's kind of where I see my strength. And it's also about seeing what are you good at? Where do you need, uh, help, where do you need more guidance? I'm not necessarily the one who's gonna go out to on the commercial team and kind of tell them how to do it. Uh, where to go, who to look for they, uh. That team is more than talented enough to figure out themself. But this is all a team effort and we are gonna cover every bits and pieces within the life of an athlete so to say
Richard Gillis, UP:Mm.
Suzann Pettersen:to make their life a lot easier and hopefully better.
Richard Gillis, UP:It's interesting the, that sort of the captain's role, the Solheim captain's role, and again, seen through the, the lens of a, of the marketing industry, for example. It's the, the commercial value of that role. Uh, it's something I've talked to a lot of Rider Cup captains about in the past it, it wasn't before and then it became a big thing, but it actually allows you. The role allows you to then talk about other things you, people come to you for things like leadership or team or teamwork management, all of those sort of things that used to be quite boring sort of business conversations. And now sport, there is a whole sort of industry of sports leadership and the, the solheim captaincy allows you to, gives you permission almost to get into that room. And I'm sure that that's part of it. In terms of how that works. What do you think about that? How do you view that in of your own personal brand and how that shifted and how the captaincy has played a role in that?
Suzann Pettersen:I think, uh, I took a lot from the two captaincies that I did. I also took a lot from the vice captaincy like the teams where I was also part of the vice captain's team and as a player. So I think the overall picture is a combination of. The player experience, the vice captains, and then towards my end, kind of the captaincy where you literally have the final say. And I didn't realize that until a few months into my first year as a captain that, I literally have the final say in a lot of these topics. But at the same time, um, the captaincy, um, I think challenge you for, from anything of how to be a good leader, how to all the, in, in kind of the, how you include the players, my biggest philosophy was to kind of, obviously bring a lot of this, um, give the players ownership to the team, like they, like. The more you give ownership to say a participant, the more they're gonna embrace it even more. I always believe that that, so to say, you can't have 12 voices. Constantly fighting each other at the same time either. So at the end of the day you have to make certain calls. But it's all made on input along the way. But uh, the experience I have has obviously is been, is priceless and, um. It's made me a, a, a better person, a better leader potentially for the good and bad good experience, bad experience. But there's a lot of pieces in there that media doesn't necessarily see all the, like the small dramas within.
Jasmine Sanders:Those tricky phone calls that you have to make.
Suzann Pettersen:Right. There's small, I, I call it the small dramas within that complexity which I'm not necessarily gonna miss. But at the same time, stuff that you have to go through as the captain, as the leader, uh, as the call, CEO, I mean, it's your decisions. It's all gonna fall on you. And I always believe, and I bring this also into the team, Voxer like. I will always have our players back, always. I'm not gonna let a player go down by themself, you know, in, in any terms of actions or whatever it may be. We will always have their back, and I think that's, that gives the players, the parties kind of safety net, uh, knowing that, that they have a team backing them, uh, no matter what happens. So, um, yeah.
Jasmine Sanders:How will you personally balance being, you know, the voice and I guess to some extent the face of Voxer with letting all of that business machine run behind you?
Suzann Pettersen:I have no problems with that because I've, I've left that machinery of, uh, expertise behind me with the most talented group that I've ever met. So that keeps me that. That gives me a peace, uh, a peaceful mind every night. I know we've, we have a fantastic team and that's kind of where I started. Like I think I found my, partners, uh, in crime, uh, in the, in the, in the P 54 system because I feel like I've always been a bit reish. Like I like to stir the pot. Uh, I've never been afraid of kind of, doing stuff, uh, a little differently and we found each other kind of down that spiral. Uh, so I think that's kind of where a lot of this energy has kind of, um. Start with building.
Richard Gillis, UP:that team sort of framing of Voxer is quite interesting, I think, because actually, does it put a limit on how many athletes you can have or how many clients you can have because you need to maintain that team ethos.
Suzann Pettersen:No, there's, uh, absolutely we don't have a finished, uh, like a set number. We want to have the right players who wants to be part of a team atmosphere. We want to make sure we don't take on board players, uh, that we can't, handle or we can't deliver. Uh, it's easy to sit and like for some of these players, they're like, yeah, like everyone keeps promise, promise me A, B, and C. But they never see any actions on it. We don't want that ever to happen. So you can't take on board more than you can kind of handle, uh, in the total picture. But um, like I said, I mean if this is gonna be a big team, small team. Uh, we'll see how we grow. But I want to grow this step by step and making sure that the, the ones that are on board, the, the ones that are, uh, already part of Team Voxer, that they are extremely happy. And my end goal with this is for team Voxer to be the best team. In the, in the game of, uh, golf, this is the team you want to be part of as a player. Uh, I want players to be dying to be part of this because first of all, yeah, we're gonna obviously look after all the ABCs and management, but we're gonna have a lot of fun. We are gonna have a lot of kind of stuff happening like at events. Off the golf course, we are gonna have call it camps, whatever where we're all bonding. Like, it's gonna be a lot of fun and I want this journey to be enjoyable. I want this not just to be like hard work and like every day the same. I want to kind of help kind of kick that energy a little bit as well.
Jasmine Sanders:Where do I sign
Suzann Pettersen:Lemme check my.
Jasmine Sanders:Thank you. I, I was gonna ask, when you say players, are you just talking about professionals or are you looking to venture into the amateur space or even, you know, broaden out into the influencer, presenter, et cetera, space? Or is, is your focus solely on professional tour players?
Suzann Pettersen:I mean, we have to start someplace. So we've started, uh, in the field where we feel like we've really got great overview. I want to have a say, I don't want to call it say, an academy type of voxa, part of voxa a leg. That kind of also helps the, you know, the young ones to come through. Um. Like say, I mean it could be collegial, it could be even younger. Um, I want this to be like an end to end. I want this to be from the very get go to literally by the time you hang up the clubs and we'll still be part of your journey. I. Like moving forward after you stop playing if that's the case. So, you'll, you'll see stuff happening within Team Voxer. We're, we have a lot of great, uh, ideas, uh, plans, but, um, we gotta do one thing at a time to execute, uh, the players, um, that, um, deserves, uh, that and, um, we'll see where, where the rest takes us.
Richard Gillis, UP:is it, there's a, the, again, the team framing, is it, is it a lonely life? I've always imagined that the, the individual golfer's life is quite a lonely one. Their individual contractors part of what you are selling. A sort of antidote to that, team as a, as family and that, that sort of positioning I think would be very appealing. I can imagine that if I'm out there on the road all the time, it's quite nice to have someone else to, with.
Suzann Pettersen:I mean, it's little bit, I mean, talking from my own experience, it's a little bit. What you put into is what you get out of it. Uh, I mean, it's the same in school. Like if you, if you wanna have a lot of friends, you kind of, you've put a lot of energy into kind of meeting new people and kind of, nurturing those relationships. Um, but at the end of the day, who cares about you? And you, I mean, your, your closest family maybe. Uh, uh, and I remember some of the, some of the tournaments that I won. Then you kind of come back to the, to the hotel room. It's you and the trophy. It's quite lonely, right? I mean, there's not necessarily too many to share that. Joy with, uh, and then the next day comes and you're off to the next venue. I mean, that's already history. So I re I remember really when I met Christian, my husband when he, when he kind of came along and he, we traveled a lot and he was a. He was a big part of that. It was nice to have somebody to share kind of my life with a bit deeper than just like going after dinner. And then you end up in the hotel room all by yourself with the trophy. The trophy stares at you and it doesn't give you any kind of response. Uh, you know, it's just like, uh, yeah. So yes, I think it is a lonely life, but it's also what you make of it. I think the European tour has a lot more, I don't know how I'm gonna put this, like, I think is a bit more social, like across the border among the players ro uh, more than what the LPGA has become over the 20 years of, uh, my time on the LPGA because. Everyone's so kind of dedicated to their own career, they about their own choices. Like you do what's best for you. You get really good at saying no. And that's a good thing. Uh, except when you stop playing you gotta say yes, which is, I'm still struggling with. I still kind of prefer to say no to most of opportunities, but, um, so.
Richard Gillis, UP:Quite Also, there's a, there's a, I think again, you hear it from, we are talking to a few sort of athletes about this type of question in terms of, they become very vulnerable to the advisor class. So you, you know, whether that's a coach I. become wedded to that, that in that rela, that becomes a very important relationship. Not just because on a technical level, but also on a personal one, but also the commercial, the business stuff, the agent. And you see, you know, as players and, and actually success doesn't help this question because actually you need more advice. The more successful you become. So do you feel like that's a, that's a a role that you are gonna play there in terms of just that you need a bit of counsel in that relationship?
Suzann Pettersen:Yeah, but it's also like you, at least you create your own team, uh, of who you want to have the inner circle. And I, I was very clear on who was inside that circle and who wasn't. But I want, I mean, I can look back and like, it's easy for me now to say that I wish I was easier on myself. I wish I could kind of enjoy the, the great moments even more because like I said, I mean it happens and in the blink it's over and then it's the next tournament and the new champion and whatever. And for people that knows me really well, they say, well, that's easy for you to say, and you were so hard on yourself. But I said, but that's what I'm saying. Like when I see it now, like retrospect, looking back into the bubble, I. Like, enjoy it because it's not gonna last forever. I mean, it's, it's not real life, but like being a professional athlete is not real life. Real life hits you. Like once you kind of landed, you kind of, I don't know, everyday life kind of, hits you. So enjoy it while it lasts. I mean, enjoy that journey because that's what it is. Uh, and um, we want to make sure that we give our players, the best platform to succeed, to be happy, and to really enjoy what they're doing.
Richard Gillis, UP:Okay. I think that's a good place to, to, to stop. Listen, yeah. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate
Suzann Pettersen:No, thanks for having me.
Richard Gillis, UP:to you.
Suzann Pettersen:See you down the road.