UP493 What's Sport Selling? Ridgeon on Ozempic, Ohanian and Athletic Ventures

This is episode three of a four-part series created in collaboration with Redtorch called What's Sport Selling? 

It's a conversation with John Ridgeon, the chief executive of World Athletics. 

Previous episodes in the series:

UP443 Big Sugar, Big Pharma...Where's the Big Sport Lobby?

UP458 Fitness, Toxicity and the Importance of the ASICS Message

Jon Ridgeon bio
Athletic Career (1980s-1990s)

• Born: February 14, 1967, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
• Key Achievement: Silver medal at the 1987 World Championships in Rome in 110m hurdles
• Olympic Participation: Represented Great Britain at 1988 Seoul Olympics and 1996 Atlanta Olympics
• Personal Best: 13.29 seconds in 110m hurdles (British record holder)
• Education: Magdalene College, Cambridge

Business Career (1998-2019)

• Fast Track Sports Marketing (1998-2012): Founding and managing partner of Fast Track. 
• Broadcasting: TV commentator for BBC and BSkyB 
• Achieve Events: Director where he helped build the mass participation events business until its acquisition in 2015
• European Sports Championships: Director of the 2018 multi-sport championship event

World Athletics Leadership (2019-Present)

• Appointment: Appointed CEO in December 2018
• Mandate: Working alongside President Sebastian Coe to modernize and grow athletics globally

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Transcript

Jon Ridgeon, World Athletics

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: [00:00:00] Hello, Richard Gillis here. Welcome to Unofficial Partner. Thanks for finding us. This is episode three of a four-part series. We've called What Sports Selling That We've created in partnership with Red Torch, the research and creative agency that's been at the heart of Olympic Sport for over 20 years.

It's a conversation with John Riggin, the chief executive of. World Athletics and builds on the first episode with guests. Johnny Merch from Red Torch, Celine del Jenners of Decathlon and Emma Mason Ebler of the World Federation of Sporting Goods Industry, where we discussed the bridge between the elite professional performance side of the sports industry and the participation side and the absence of a coherence sports lobby into governments.

The second episode in the series was with Gary Roucha, the Global Head of Marketing and Executive board member at Asex, the fourth largest athletic footwear brand in the world with a share of the running market that sits above Nike and Adidas. So the missing bit of the jigsaw is a major international [00:01:00] sports governing body.

So with that as the context, we invited John Ridin for a conversation.

Who is the Chief Executive of World Athletics, the global governing body for track and field. Gin was born in Berry St. Edmonds in Suffolk in 1967, and he was a silver medalist at the 1987 World Athletic Championships in Rome in the 110 meters Hurdles represented Great Britain at the 88 Soul Olympics and the 96 Atlanta Olympics.

Personal best of 13.29 seconds is a British record, Following his athletic career, he went into the agency world Fast Track Sports marketing from 1998 to 2012,

he's been a broadcaster for television and B, sky B

he was director of the 2018 European Sports Championships, and has been in his present role since December, 2018. Took up the role in March, 2019, working alongside President Sebastian Coe to modernize and grow athletics globally.

it's an [00:02:00] interesting time in the environment for track and field globally. We've got Grand Slam Track, the new event. Business created by Michael Johnson, backed by hedge fund manager, bill Ackman and Athlos, which is Alexis Hanian, the Reddit co-founders New Women's only Track Meet, which uh, was launched in September last year.

So we talked about what that meant for the global governing body.

Jon Ridgeon: So some people think we should be. Terribly threatened by that. It couldn't be further from the truth. We absolutely embrace it. Anything that brings new opportunity for athletes new money into our sport, new opportunity for fans is really good news. So, for example, you know, we work closely.

With, with Alas in terms of date allocation and, I meant to meet last year, remember sending to Alexa Hanian a, a list of these are the things that we thought were great about the event. These are the things that perhaps you should develop. Now, whether that was taken on board, I

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Did he, did he respond?

Jon Ridgeon: but Yeah, yeah.

No, I only spoke to him the other day. We have a very positive [00:03:00] relationship.

This episode is brought to you by Red Torch. A global research and creative agency dedicated to making sport more relevant. Red Torch helps sports rights holders and brands punch above their weight born in the Olympic movement. They know how to deliver, they know how to deliver ear. They know how to deliver when the stakes are high, and the spotlight's on.

Trusted and retained by some of the world's biggest sports organizations. Red Torch brings you the best people, fresh ideas and the flexibility you'd expect from a true independent specialist agency. If you want to grow your audience, create impact and turn cultural insight into a winning edge, visit Red Torch Sport to find out more.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: , One way into this is. Your inbox, your job. 'cause there's loads of people listening and lots of people will think they know what your job [00:04:00] is. What you should be doing, what you are doing and all of those things

Jon Ridgeon: a va.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: you'll be very familiar with.

With all of that.

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: thought it'd be nice just to start off with, What's the job? What do you do all day? Type question. Just give us an idea, just sense of priorities and, and we can get, you know, we'll obviously get into a bit of detail,

so what do you think? What keeps you up at night and what, what makes you happy?

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah, so this is a wonderful, challenging, diverse job, being CEO of World Athletics. And, look, if I try to boil down what world athletics is here for, I would argue it's three things. argue that it's to do the governance part of the sport, so, you know, set the rules, make sure it's, you know, the integrity of the sport is maintained, all of that. then secondly, it's to stage those. Hopefully kind of pinnacle events like, you know, the World Championships later this year in Tokyo that has, you know, audience of 1 billion people. So that's all good. And then the third bit, which is actually. The most, broad most challenging and interesting in many ways is just to grow the [00:05:00] sport.

And we grow the sport through our own activities. We grow the sport through working with our member federations and we grow the sport through partnership. With others. So I think it's those three areas really. And my days is taken up by doing a range of, of meetings. So what have I done today, this morning? My first meeting was around technology and trying to use technology to enhance the way we. Broadcast athletics and tell stories around particularly the road races you know, performances there. And then I went from that meeting to a meeting with the Tokyo, organizing Committee for our world championships later this year where we were, you know, just thrashing through all the kind of issues inevitably that still exist two or three months out before the world championships. And my next meeting is you, so, so, and if I look at the rest of the day, it really. You know why my job is so interesting. It does really, you know, flip between from governance and, you know, setting shoe tech rules and things like that [00:06:00] in one moment. And then the next moment it's speaking to Netflix trying to commission co-produce. Doco series is that, that hopefully reach new audiences terms of athletics. So it, you know, it, it is a, it is a fascinating job and I've got to say, I, I've never felt, such a strong sense of mission in any job I've done over the years. And I've, I've been very lucky. I've done some really interesting jobs and, you know, I, I do really wake up every morning, you know, really up for the challenge trying to grow athletics.

So I, I'm, I'm very lucky.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: It's interesting. I asked, when I asked, Jack Buckner the, the same question he said, I let it, the governance bit will take over every day, all day, every day. He said, it's so important. It's so. Urgent. There's so many, it's so complex and it's the bit that no one else wants to do. So when people talk on business podcasts about what they would do with athletics, it all gravitates.

You know what private equity wants, what does the money want it all into the events business, the media rights, the commercialization, the format and the product. All of that [00:07:00] stuff is what the conversation is

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: and that's the nature of this podcast. But the governance bit. Is is just at the center of that and no one else wants to do that.

Presumably, no one else can do that.

Jon Ridgeon: No, that's for sure. That's why I know there'll always be an international federation because no one is ever, banging down my door saying, John, we want to take over the governor's bit. Get that. But it's, it's really important. But, but Jack is right that you have to be really disciplined and you, you've got to make sure that, you know, I've talked about, you know, the three elements that make up, I think what World Aesthetics does, and, and I'm, I'm really disciplined with myself to make sure you give equal amounts of time and energy. In, into all those areas because, they're all really important and equally important. And I think, I think I'm helped by the fact that my background for the last 25, 30 years has been agency side. So, you know, I'm a, know, I'm from the commercial side of the sport, so, you know, actually the governance side, I've actually had to learn.

It's never been, you know, top of my inbox. But it's important now. And I do obviously invest time in it, [00:08:00] but I also, you know, we are an organization of, you know, short, just short of a hundred people here. So, so, you know, I have people that wake up every day and worry about governance. So, you know, work with a great team.

Obviously. I work with a passionate and committed president in Seb Co as well, who's cvs pretty good on all this. So, you know, there, there's a team of us who, who work on this and, and yes, I put time into it, but I've got other people who are investing all their time governance and also. And I can take no credit for this because it, it happened long before I, I arrived kind of six years ago, but, you know, we invest over 10, 12% of our income every year into the athletics integrity unit as well, which is a really important part of our governance in keeping our sport, you know, good shape.

So, you know, we have, yes, we fund it, but it's independently run and they do a good job terms of making sure those sort of, areas, are well maintained.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: It is a, it is interesting that you know, 'cause obviously your agency background, background and you say there that you've never had a stronger sense of mission. I think I understand what you mean there. I'm just trying to make [00:09:00] that the bridge. 'cause actually being at in, we call it in-house or at the governing body level, there is something different going on.

Is that true? Is it, it's broader, but it's also deeper in terms of, you know, I've worked at agencies, lots of people listening will be working at agencies, and there is a sense there that actually maybe there's something slightly missing from that work from that just, and this is a life job question, not a necessarily a job question.

Jon Ridgeon: Look, I have huge respect for what agencies do, and agencies do a lot of things better than international governing bodies. I absolutely get that, which is why we try to do things often in partnership. We don't have to all do it. In house. But I think a, and I've been, you know, I've been lucky enough to be part of a, a, a couple of, of agencies over the years that we built and were acquired and, you know, the, that whole process was, was, you know, hugely, interesting, challenging and ultimately rewarding.

But what I think, um. What I think the governing body gives and why it, it's this job is, is, is is [00:10:00] I find so interesting and it's such a kind of mission job is, is we see the, the absolutely full picture. And if you know my. Uh, my early days was spent as an international athlete and long time ago now. It was in the 1980s and 1990s.

I, I, I did that, but clearly, you know, that's in my DNA and, and what this job allows me to do and working in this organization with, you know, with some great committed colleagues is, is that that. You know, hopefully if you wanna make an impact on your sport and leave it in a better place than you found it, this is the kind of central place to be.

Now, we can't do it all on our own. We don't try and do it all on our own, but it does give you that opportunity to really do, make fundamental change. Because I, I think by being part of the international Federation, it, it, it's easier to make change than it is if you are part of a, an agency that probably has a broader, or, or, or actually more, more focused, you know. Agencies can stage great events or great campaigns or, , are hugely good at, you know, innovation, but, but ultimately, you know, setting the rules of the game, um, you know, [00:11:00] creating the, big events, and the way they're consumed is something that, that we can do. And, that's a, a great honor and it's exciting to be involved.

It's a great responsibility as well.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: and I'm really aware of that.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: There's a, because we're in your interesting time because , there's a sort of big governing body. And then there's a sort of skinny governing body model and that, and some sports are doing it one way, some sports are doing it in other ways. And I wonder how you define it. Have, I mean, I in terms of your, just your sense of what the role of institutions are.

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, again, back on my kind of agency background, I. We have grown over the last six years since, since I've been here. So it would be, it would be wrong of me to say we haven't grown, but I, I do try to keep that growth to a minimum because I, I kind of believe fundamentally in the skinny approach because I do believe in, you know, so for example, we haven't got a big in-house sales team. We outsource that. We haven't got a big in-house broadcast team. We outsource that, albeit we don't do it in a passive [00:12:00] way. We very much manage those relationships on, are right in the middle of those relationships. But, you know, I'm not looking to create a model of where we employ hundreds of people here. You know, I, I want to keep it roughly to where we are now. We keep, you know, expenditure, you know, tightly controlled. And it's about employing the best people around the world. To work with us, deliver the best, possible results. So I, I think that's the model. That's the model, we're trying, to follow, but, we are lucky that probably unlike quite a lot of Olympic sports, we are growing, you know, our resources are growing, our income is growing, so it does allow us to do more things, you know, which is exciting. So I, I look forward great optimism for the next few years where, as you know, I, I know the challenges out there and I know some sports are, you know, managing.

Real challenges and, and, declining the right resources. They're, they're working in now. We are managing lots of challenges, don't get me wrong, but at least we, we are doing that with a growing resource and

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: what is the source of that growth, John?

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah, so, [00:13:00] so I know the numbers well for the last six years 'cause I've been CEO for the last six years.

So, when I, first arrived six years ago, we were about a $50 million a year income organization. We are now just short of $70 million a year income organization. We are slightly complicated 'cause our income's slightly lumpy, so you have to look at our income in a four year. of cycle, but that's roughly where we are and are not that different to anyone else.

From the point of view, where does our income come from? It's sponsorship, it's broadcast income, it's hosting fees, and also we get an IOC share of the broadcast, dividend as well. So they're the main forces. are, you know, we are opening up new sources of, of I income, but they're inevitably slower.

To, to grow. So I think we look like probably most sporting organizations. And what's good is that, you know, we are attracting more sponsors. For example, you know, Honda and Sony and the likes of, you know, one or two big global brands have come on board in the last year or two. major cities around the world are keen to host our [00:14:00] world championships never before.

So, there, there's some good fundamentals there. But I am aware the income. The model is changing over time, but the good news that we have is we actually, most of our, significant income streams are locked into the end of the decade. So at least we have five years to be able to actually analyze the situation, which we're doing now, saying, look, what's the world gonna look like in 2030?

It's probably gonna require an evolved model. But we've at least got time to do that because we've got predictable, safe income between now and the, and the end of the decade.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: And just gimme an idea of the proportions then. So how much is each block, you know, you've listed those four

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: sources. Just gimme an idea of how that breaks down.

Jon Ridgeon: so, so the two biggest, chunks of income that are roughly 50 50 would be sponsorship and, broadcast. Hosting fees are, you know, are a significant amount as well, probably 20%. And then we have. the IOC, we get, i, we get $40 million from the IOC every, [00:15:00] every four years, as a share of our, Olympic broadcast, revenues and is the number one Olympic sport.

I, I, I would argue we more than, more than deserve that. And that comes to what, what does that come to? About 14, 15% of our, of our income. So, so again, I think we're. I think we're fairly typical sponsorship and broadcast revenues at the moment make up the majority of, of our income with within in third position, hosting fees and the IOC income as well.

So they're the four main sources with, for example, you know, digital income, still quite small, but at least growing on a, an annual basis.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: And the, your view on the sort of existential question, the bundle question about TV rights and that place, this is not obviously unique to athletics by any means. It's every sport and every governing body. Every league is looking at this question and asking what happens. And you know, as you say, your, you've got five years to sort out an answer or you know, but it's.

It's been a story that's been building for a long time and

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: I [00:16:00] wonder what your answer to is, what, you know, what happens, how much of the, the money is coming from tv. I mean, you've got obviously via TV via the IOC, but also your own television, right?

Jon Ridgeon: no, you know, probably 30% of our revenues. I haven't got the spreadsheet in front of me, but it's reasonable chunk of our revenues are from, are from broadcast and, and actually broadcast is important as well. 'cause we're traditionally a free to air. Sport as well. So it's not just the income from broadcast, it's the exposure we get from broadcast as well, which is why one of the reasons why we'll have a billion eyeballs watching our world championships in Tokyo later this year. 'cause we are on the big free wear broadcasters around, around, which is important. So, so look, if I'm being, really honest. I, I don't know what it's gonna look like in 2030. I know we're doing the work now, and I know we're, we're analyzing that as everyone else is. And actually, interestingly, when I talk to colleagues in other sports and in agency world as well, I, I don't necessarily get the answer from any of them either.

So I think we're all looking, as I said, I take, and I don't say this, in a [00:17:00] way where we are not focused on it right now. Um, but, you know, I do take comfort from the point of view that, that we have a five year runway here. So we can not only do our own work, we can look at the, the successes and, and mistakes that others make as well in, in terms of, where we land.

But, um, but I still think even in 2030, um, if you've got a good product. Live sport, I would argue is more powerful than ever. So I actually still think the model will have a significant place for broadcast, probably still free to air broadcast. And I still think there'll be a significant chunk of our income that will come from, from broadcast, , revenues. , Because you know, we believe, we believe in the product. We think the fundamentals are really strong. You know, we are the number one Olympic sport and we're the most participated sport in the world. More people run than do. Any other sport in the world. And, um, yeah, I, I think our best days are ahead rather than behind us.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Okay. I, that's quite a statement though, isn't it? I mean, given the backdrop of athletics and the, [00:18:00] you know, and people go to golden eras and all of this stuff, and the assumption is that actually the future isn't the best, the best days. There is a sort of, okay, how do we piece our way through? You've got a generation of people who aren't watching television and then, you know, the idea that, uh, just the consumption habits.

Have shifted and that hits the casual fan probably more than anything they've migrated, you know, away from television onto TikTok or YouTube or whatever. It's. It's interesting you say that. Yeah. And of course you would say it, the best days are ahead. But I'm trying to get to a picture of how that works and whether or not it's actually, so it's the government go, there's the world athletics question.

You've got other people circling. I've just come from the open. Everyone's talking about live golf, new models coming in, disruption, the live golf coming for every sport. What does that look like from your point of view in terms of when you start to run your defensive? Aspects. 'cause there are people who say, right, you are right.

I agree with John. He's, [00:19:00] he's bullish on the product and the sport and people like athletics or the various bar bits of it, but the product isn't resonating. So let's

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: talk about that.

Jon Ridgeon: in interesting question. Um, and so we, we start with the fundamentals being strong, and that's important. I mean, ultimately, you know, we have a sport that people do want to watch. It's a totally global sport. Uh, one of the most global sports out there. You know, you've just gotta look at, remember, our sport is very diverse as well.

We've just gotta look at running. And you know, you've just gotta look at some of the, the recent trends, which, you know, I can't tell you necessarily how they've been created, but it is highly fashionable in your late teens and twenties to go running now and join running clubs. And, you know, all those

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: But is that, is that linked to world athletics though, or is that, that's a, that's a park run phenomena, isn't it? Or a, that's a

Jon Ridgeon: no. I'm not saying, I'm not saying this is all what athletics generated at all. Okay. But I'm just saying the fundamentals are strong and if the fundamentals are strong, you should be to build on that. So if you talk about, [00:20:00] so for example, athletics in the 1980s was a very simple, wasn't it?

Everyone watched it on terrestrial television and there were very few channels to choose from. Easy, right? Clearly we live in a very different world now, whereas free two wear television is still really important to us. We are working really hard making sure we, um. Package athletics is in a way that whatever your age, whatever your, your, you know, your, you, your, the way you, you consume sport and entertainment, the athletics is there for you.

And I'll, I'll give you a couple of examples, okay? So, you know, we hit this week 5 million, followers on TikTok. Okay. Now I don't spend a lot of time on TikTok, but many people do. So, you know, we've got some 14 million followers now on our social media channels. You know, so clearly that is reaching, some people. We're also making sure that we create new athletics product that reaches new people in different environments. So, you know, we've worked with Netflix in terms of co-producing, a series called Sprint over the last couple of years, which is. All about that, our leading global sprinters [00:21:00] there's no doubt about it that did good business and it reached new audiences.

That's another way we've, we've hopefully reached people that might not sit down like I do and watch a two hour athletics meet on television. 'cause I get that's not for everyone. But beyond that as well, we, are making sure that our product is evolved to reach new people as well. And I'll just give you two examples of that. Athletics really comes to life. On a global scale with mass audience, as in hundreds of millions of viewers when it has a global championships. So we looked at that and we go, you know, at the four year cycle have an Olympic games, you have a couple of world championships. But for example, next year in 2026, there was no global championship. That's like golf or tennis saying, do you know we're gonna have a year without a major? We cannot afford to do that. So we've created a new global championship. Called the World Effects Ultimate Championships. That stage for the first time next year, it's a three day kind of, you know, shortened version, intense, world Championship event.

And that is gonna be, you know, again, a new [00:22:00] product, faster paced, designed for a younger audience. That will hopefully be our, be our big global moment of next year. Another example is, you know, we are trying to take athletics to new environments. So there's a whole bunch of people that go to gyms that jump on a treadmill, that run that probably never think of

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: and I understand that.

So we've created, with a, a fantastic. Global Tech partner, a new world athletic virtual running championships and program. That's all about going to your local gym and being part of the world effects community, but just going on your treadmill and running a 5K. So some of these will work, some of them won't work.

Okay. I completely accept that. But I hope it gives you an idea that we are. Trying across the piece to make sure we're not just sitting back and going, we are the number one Olympic sport all good. We are pushing the boundaries in lots of different directions try to make sure that we can do everything you can to make sure we're future proof, because, you know, we live in a world that's changing quicker than ever before.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: [00:23:00] and that that obviously throws up some wonderful opportunities. But it's, but, but for a, you know, an organization like the us throws up some threats as well.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: It's interesting, isn't it, in terms of where you step in and where you don't. It's the, it's the old sort of government, question about where, where it's welcome, where it's helpful and where it's not. And how you, are you investing money or are you bringing, you know, in terms of like the tech thing, let's just go, go that direction because I could sort of see there's the whole backing winners question about where government, you know, what government, and I'm

Jon Ridgeon: Yep.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: governing bodies is a proxy for government obviously.

So. Where and what role you play there. Is it a badging thing? And, and I mean, I don't mean that in a derogatory term in terms of I, you know, you are bringing world athletics credibility to one a tech thing and which one you have to then go through, you know, which one you're gonna select to, to go with.

Are you investing money in that? Is there a sort of shared risk element to it? Just talk me through how that works.

Jon Ridgeon: So we do both. So we do so with the running championships, [00:24:00] that's gonna be a co-creation with a tech business where we both gonna invest money and take risk. other examples, we are more passive, but we're more supportive and we've always have a, or we try to have a view that we don't need to own everything.

As long as, you know, if you come up with a concept that's good for athletics and grows athletics, we'll, we'll support you. Why? Why wouldn't we? 'cause ultimately our job is to grow FedExs, so, so for example, there's been a couple of new entrants in terms of event series into the market over the last couple of years.

Grand Slam Track and at Loss.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: so some people think we should be. Terribly threatened by that. It couldn't be further from the truth. We absolutely embrace it. Anything that brings new opportunity for athletes new money into our sport, new opportunity for fans is really good news. So, for example, you know, we work closely.

With, with Alas in terms of date allocation I meant to meet last year, remember sending to Alexa Hanian a, a list of these are the things that we thought were great about the event. These are the things that perhaps you should develop. Now, [00:25:00] whether that was taken on board, I

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Did he, did he respond?

Jon Ridgeon: but Yeah, yeah.

No, I only spoke to him the other day. We have a very positive relationship. With Grand Slam Track, for example. We

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: This is Michael Johnson's, uh,

Jon Ridgeon: yeah. We,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: business.

Jon Ridgeon: we allocated really high world ranking points to try and help him attract his athletes, you know, obviously in addition to the prize money and everything.

So those two examples is, we're not investing any money, but we're trying to do our bit in terms of what we can provide, uh, as world athletics. So, you know, I guess the, the summary is, is we do both

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it is,

Jon Ridgeon: get

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: So just thinking that through for a moment, then if I'm on their side, and I don't know either of those gentlemen, they're obviously very famous and prominent.

Don't need me to argue their case, but I'm thinking, okay, your ultimate event next year is that crowding me out. You are creating something else that they could fill that space with. Presumably that's, that would be my take on what you've done.

Jon Ridgeon: yeah. I, I see it complete opposite

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: Because you, what we've done, again, looking at this kind of, the [00:26:00] innovation we've looked at, you know, some of them are, are sort of macro stuff. Some of it's a micro level. But one of the innovations is, is a very simple one, is we've looked at the calendar and tried to make more sense of it.

So we have, from this year onwards, we have pegged our. World Championships or World Athletics Ultimate Championships. Anyway, the big global championship to mid-September every year. And the reason we've done that is because that provides the kind of culmination, pinnacle event that everything else can build up to.

So if you look at Grand Slam Track, if you look at Diamond League or whatever, that then provides the week in, week out narrative and journey for the fans and the athletes. They build towards the global championship at the end. So. I think we are working or we're certainly trying to work well with everyone to make sense of it. And I, I would also say that, you know, whilst. All the other events are really important to our sport. They generate much, much smaller audiences ultimately for global championships. The, the only time athletics at the moment reaches audiences of hundreds of millions is at the Olympic Games and World Championships. [00:27:00] Now, over time, I hope that the other products. Can, can, you know, build beyond millions, into tens of millions. But, but that's the reality. Um, so I think both are important. I don't think we're competing in any way. I think we are complimenting each other, and certainly that's the view I have. And, um, uh, that's the view I'm gonna continue to have.

'cause I think it's, it's a much healthier view to have. Um,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: where does Diamond League fit into this? Again,

Jon Ridgeon: League,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: remember having a conversation. When it launched and it was a sort of, I understood it. Again, you get there sort of intellectually. I get and I was thinking, yeah, that's a really nice idea. I don't know, I don't follow athletics closely enough to say whether it's been a successful failure, but

Jon Ridgeon: So yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: that for me.

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah. So I, I actually, I was part of the creation of Diamond League back in 2010, so we are in our 16th year now. So, I mean, so, you know, it's certainly proved to be sustainable and it's proven the test of time, the idea of the Diamond League was, at the time we just had a whole group of standalone meets that kind of did their own thing.

We tried to bring them together, that leading. 15 odd meets [00:28:00] in the world to give it some structure give the season some structure again across the year. So, you know, is it perfect? No, it's not. But, but has it worked? Yes, it has. It's certainly the premium, series of one day meetings in the world that give, you know, athletes a great chance to compete and prepare for the major championships.

And then the living, it gives our fans a great chance to see, you know, regular content. Be in London this weekend for the, the London Diamond League, and it's gonna be a sellout crowd, gonna be, gonna be a fabulous event. So they're very, very good events. The idea when they were, they were initially created was that they, they would always bring the world's very top athletes into big head, head, head, competitions.

Now the reality is that ath some athletes compete more or less than others. And you know, so if I'm being. Truth across the Diamond League is a really good product, but can it be better? Yes. And we are working, we've got meetings this Sunday. We are gonna review Diamond League and see how we can make it better for the future. Because inevitably some meets have bigger budget than others and, you know, [00:29:00] across the season you get stronger weaker meats. But overall it's by a significant margin. the most powerful, and most popular series of one day meetings. And it contributes an awful lot to the sport.

And I think its future, you know, is strong and I think it's a really important function competition platform for our sport. But, but we're always pushing to make it, to make it even better.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Um, so this is a UK question. Obviously I'm sitting in the UK and you know, athletic ventures I think is a really interesting.

Jon Ridgeon: Mm.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Sort of, uh, venture and I can see again, there's a sort of a combination there at a local level of what you are articulating at at Global. I'm just wondering how, first of all, what you, what, how you view that.

Because one of the questions about UK athletics was how did it lose money on a, you know, the, the, um, diamond League event sold out and, and that's. That sort of event management expertise and these things tend to go in cycles. I mean, I remember you at Fast Track, you did all the UK athletics work [00:30:00] and then they took it in-house and now it's sort of quasi gone out again.

But it, I, I wonder what your view on that, 'cause obviously you must, you must look at that and, and. With a hint of irony I imagine saying. Right. Okay. Well that was, I can see a sort of circularity there. What do you just, and there's a question there about obviously World Athletics, much broader brief, but just let's gimme your sense of what's happening there.

'cause that, I think it's a really interesting story.

Jon Ridgeon: It's,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: I.

Jon Ridgeon: agree with you I'm very proud of the fact that when I was at Fast Track and we worked with UCA Athletics back in the, in the 1990s and early two thousands, that we worked together to create a commercial program and an events program that made UK athletics at the time of the richest athletics governing body in the world.

So, you know, it, it certainly worked back there and I actually think a combination of. Of governing body you know, two world class commercial bodies. Great run company London Marathon. I mean, fabulous. I think, I think it's the, I think it's the future. I think it's the way forward and, I think gone are the days where we can rely athletics is sport that's relied [00:31:00] very much over the years on big public subsidy and, you know. you to all the governments that have, have been willing to build stadium and fund championships performance programs and all the rest of

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: it still remains important, but clearly athletics need to. probably all Olympic sports needs to become a little more self-sufficient.

So I think this combination of, of from public and private to use a kind of government expression is absolutely the way forward. And I'm, I'm, I'm so pleased that youth athletics has moved from a position where, you know, it wasn't in great shape financially. I, there's that there. There's no secret there.

And I think Jack was Jack Buck and the CEO was completely transparent about that. To now we're in a position where they've got, you know, one of the, if not the, you know, the best DMI league meet in the world that's gonna make money this year for the first time. They've got a new title sponsor on board. It's, it's really exciting times. And you talk about, you know, best days being ahead. You can see the trajectory of youth athletics alongside some. Some brilliant athletes. Can see the trajectory is, is really good for the future. And I think this is a good [00:32:00] example that athletics needs to embrace more readily, sort of public private partnership, uh, what I would argue. Is that, certainly five or six years ago you, I didn't see, I didn't see entities wanting to come into the sport. So I would argue the bit that we've done at Word ethics is, you know, not just on our own, but alongside others, is we've worked hard to make sure the fundamentals of the sport are good. You know, it's a well governed sport. It's, you know, it's seen as a sport with great integrity. So it, it's. It's created the right platform for others to come in now and want to invest in the sport. But I, like many of the new entrants in the sport, recognizes that when you consider how strong our fundamentals are, are under monetized as a sport and that includes world athletics, which is why I'm optimistic for the future that I think this is a sport that can grow.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: That government bit is quite interesting 'cause that, that sort of depends on that link , that. Story, the inspiration story. My, I want my kids to watch athletics. They will go out and do some exercise and you then get very quickly [00:33:00] to, you know, we're in obesity crisis, we're in health crisis, and how can athletics help that?

And that story has, has unlocked billions and billions in government money, not just to athletics, but across sport. Is that, do you still see that as that story holding up?

Jon Ridgeon: I do. I think it's more powerful than ever because the reason I see it holding up is athletics. Well, let's talk about running. You know, running key element of athletics. Actually the biggest part of athletics, not only is the most accessible, easy, easiest, cheapest way of, of just moving and therefore keeping physically fit.

Increasingly, people recognize that, that. Your mental health as well. It's really important. I was only talking to someone this morning about, you know, the running boom around amongst young people and, and she was saying to me that actually, you know, her belief is the, getting into athletics so much at the moment is actually not the physical fitness necessarily.

It's actually at least equally mental, fitness side of things and fitness, mental health side of things as well. So I think one [00:34:00] of the things we need to do. You know, again, as the International Federation, and I'm lucky that I work alongside, you know, Seb Co. As the president who, you know, carries a lot more influence than I do around the world. It, one of the things I think we should be campaigning. know, more, diligently around is actually making the case to governments that part of your responsibility government is to keep your population fit and healthy. We all know the challenges, expanding challenges in terms of that around the world. And actually athletics has a bigger part to play 'cause it's just such a cost effective way. Of turning some of those trends around. So I think we can do more as a governing body, and I think that's just the sort of, you talked earlier about what Stein governing body and agency life, well, you probably can't do that in an agency, whereas an international federation, that's just the sort of thing we can do. Hopefully they'll listen and, you know, can, and we can do more in terms of, in terms of governments funding and embracing as sport. Not to help perhaps even know on the performance level, but just on the health level.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah, it's interesting that mental [00:35:00] health question because we had Gary Roucha on from Asics and they, they're, we talked about that a lot, about the positioning of the brand and the way in which they've run that campaign, which I really like, you know, for what it's worth.

But it's, it's a really important part of the jigsaw at a time when I look some of the. The marketing is quite often it's performance related. So it, and that always has to be an aspect and, you know, athletics is all about performance and there's an, there's an element of winning, whereas actually, I, I looked at that campaign thought.

Yeah, actually I, that resonated with me far more than, you know, game face. All of that stuff. And it's quite a, it's a, it's a delicate balance for trainer, you know, shoe companies, isn't it? Because they, they have to balance those two things, , and Gary mentioned, you know, the sort of toxicity of gym culture and marketing around that and that bit, which again, is less healthy.

So it's quite a, you get back to the governance question again, but when you look at the way in which your sport is then sold to its various [00:36:00] constituents, what do you think?

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah, I think it's an interesting question. I, I should declare an interest. We are sponsored by asic

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: it, so, and I, but I do think that as you, you, you've just said, I do think the sort of, you know, the healthy body, healthy mind

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: mantra of asics is a good one and, and, and has a lot of credibility in terms of, of their roots. We take the view that, that, try to do. We try to do kind of both. We try to fund and promote and celebrate the elite side of sport, and we try to do development side of sport as well because you can't just have world class athletes, you also need people just doing our sport for fun. And you also need the base of the pyramids.

So in terms of, you know, pure numbers. you, you know, over the, the four year cycle between, the last Olympics and the next Olympics in LA we will spend about $50 million on development and we'll spend just over $50 million on prize money. So it, it gives you an example actually of, of roughly where, where we're investing in both.

But it, it [00:37:00] is, I think athletics has some, some. Challenges as an individual sport because, there's no doubt about it. All sports, for example, face dropout rates amongst teenagers, all sports,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: athletics certainly does as well. And I think some of the challenges in keeping people involved is greater for an individual sport compared with the team sport, just because it's perhaps more social and things like that, which is why things like the running clubs are so important. But, but we're aware of that and we, you know, we're fighting the good fight. But it's, it's a competitive landscape over out there, you know, from we're competing against other sports, competing against gaming. We're competing against

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Hmm.

Jon Ridgeon: To capture people's, attention. It's, and it's competitive. But we're, we're certainly doing our best and we're aware of that. And we also have a network of some 200 member federations around the world that can be kind of our boots on the ground around the world as well. And that can help, you know, encourage the creation of athletics clubs and things like that.

So we have a, we have a good network that can help us.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: I think you know, the, the, it's interesting I was listening to We Streeting recently and talking [00:38:00] about, you know, he runs the NHS now, so he is the, you know, British Health minister. So the, the Ozempic era and what that does to this question. And we've got this, you know, there's been a shift about, okay, well.

How is that the solution and that that, you know, certainly that's a, he's pushing that hard in terms of, okay, this is, this is, it is almost like, okay, there's a silver bullet here. We we're gonna grab this. And I, I was just thinking as he was talking, I wonder what that means in government when sport comes in the door and whether or not that becomes an argument, they start to say, oh, okay, that's a, that's a world championship we don't need to spend money on because

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Wes, he's gonna save us with his needles.

Jon Ridgeon: No, it's, it's, it's a really good point. would say this, wouldn't it? But I, I think both fit together perfectly, and I tell you why. So, you know, if, if you are, you know, significantly overweight, it's really, really tough to think I'm gonna go for a run. Well, I'm even gonna go for a walk. Okay. So it's almost this two stage approach, I would say. I mean, I certainly don't think you should be taking [00:39:00] the jab. And unless you are, you know, significantly over the way, overweight. Okay. I mean, I, I know some people do it for aesthetics, but, but I think it really has a place there. And once you're in a better physical place,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Sorry, did you say for aesthetics or athletics?

Jon Ridgeon: Aesthetics.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Aesthetics.

Jon Ridgeon: jab for aesthetics.

Yes. Whereas, whereas I'm, I'm arguing, you know, if you're significantly overweight and need some help, you know,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Mm-hmm.

Jon Ridgeon: Right. But then in terms of long-term, healthy, sustainable fitness, you've gotta find a different way. And actually something like, I mean you mentioned it earlier, park run is, you know, once you're at a physical place where you can face gentle exercise, that's perfect.

And again, to give you an example of the sort of work we do here. That you, we don't expect you any credit for or, or we, headline brand at all. But, you know, I was only on a call yesterday with the CEO of Park run where we were, we were chatting about how we can help each other expand.

So, so, you know, that's a good example again of, of, you know, we're a medium sized organization. We can't do that much [00:40:00] on our own, but we can do an awful lot with the wonderful organizations that are out there already and Park runs right at the top of that. I think it's a. Magical, concept event concept.

And, but if we can do our little bit to help them expand, you know, internationally, that's, I think work well done for us. But, so I think the two can go together, but I, I guess I would say that, wouldn't I?

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: The, the part run question's interesting because when I ask sort of, so Dave Bedford

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: and Nick Patel and, Jack and. Ed Warner, they've, we, I always ask 'em the park run question in terms of could it have emerged from an athletics governing body? And they all say no, absolutely no way. Culturally, it's a world away.

They don't wake up thinking in that way, and therefore that's part of the issue. So the go, the park run is almost a sort of counter to the governing body argument. You've heard this story before many times, but what's your view on that?

Jon Ridgeon: I disagree. So, and one of the reasons we are embracing park run and working with them is, is I think it all helps. It, it, so I know that some athletics [00:41:00] traditionalists when per park run was first created were a little bit suspicious of it, but actually it's been totally proven now that a great way, for example, of increasing club membership is ultimately people discover athletics through park run. And a certain percentage, I dunno what, but a certain percentage go, we like this, we actually wanna take this more seriously, then join their local athletics club. So it works for all of us. And I would argue that, that, yes, I guess traditionally governing bodies haven't been the most creative, but I think that's changing.

And I'd like to think, you know, for example, the creation of. Virtual running, which gonna, we are gonna do on treadmills in gyms around the world. I, I'd like to think the governing bodies can create, initiatives and innovation that, that, that can, can drive change. But, but even if we. I think the importance is that we have an open mindset embrace others that can, and try and do everything that we can to help rocket fuel their, their growth.

'cause as I said right at the start of the interview, one of our core jobs is just to grow the sport. [00:42:00] And, and I actually genuinely don't care how the sport has grown. I'll work with anyone that can grow the sport. So that works. But I wouldn't completely right. International federations off in terms of their

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah, I, you know, I, I don't,

Jon Ridgeon: new inventory.

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: there absolutely. And there's also a, the vertical funding model sport by sport. And if the objective is the health of the nation. How that works because immediately you are looking, you are putting people in competition with each other.

So athletics is in competition with tennis and various other, you know, that, that's just how governing bodies are funded. And you've got this really difficult question of, the sports verticals. And that is, I don't see a way, because immediately the incentive in the marketplace to, to be rewarded, you have to attribute.

Someone's running over there. I need that to, in some way make it back to my governing body because otherwise the government ain't gonna pay me at some point. And you know, that is a large check as part of my balance sheet. So that [00:43:00] problem is really difficult. And I, you know, again, it's a sort of silo question, but I don't, and other people say, right, there's a, there are other routes of doing it and, but it would need complete systemic change and no one's particularly up for it.

Jon Ridgeon: Yeah, so certainly most of our income is derived from elite athletics. So the money then that we're spending on development is effectively a redirection of money raised from elite athletics in into, into development. But, but everyone gets the, the importance of redirection. I mean, that's, you know,

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah.

Jon Ridgeon: progressive taxation systems in most of our countries based upon. Right. Um, so, so that happens. I, I think in terms of funding better, the whole health model as opposed to the elite model, which is, you know, pretty well funded, that I think as a sport we need to get better at. You'll know from speaking to the likes of, of Nick and, and Huber at London Marathon, they've got lots of data.

I think we need to be better at, sharing, credible data that [00:44:00] demonstrates the power of athletics to change people's lives and improve the health of the nation. Because, you know, there's a debate going on in the UK right now, isn't there about, you know, public funding and where it should go and how much should be spent on what clearly. If you can make, the nation healthier, that's gonna save a lot of money. Ultimately. And yes, I'm biased, but I still think running is one of the most powerful ways you can do that. But I think we've got to be better as a sport, and I take responsibility for this as the International Federation.

We've gotta get much better at making that case with real credible data. Behind it to demonstrate the power of running so that can then unlock, you know, vast sums of money from government that, you know, we are never gonna be to unlock. But no, I do accept there's a, there's a, not a tension, but there's a slight, disconnect between elite and kind of, what should we call it?

Health of the nation. Jogging or running non elite

Richard Gillis, Unofficial Partner: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's not a new question either, is it? I mean, go governments deciding where to spend money is not a new, not a new issue. Listen, John, [00:45:00] I've, I'm really grateful for your time. Really appreciate it and, lovely to, lovely to chat and good luck with, with everything.

Jon Ridgeon: No thank you. And it's always great to be able to talk about athletics and, what we're doing here at World Athletics. So, you know, thank you for the opportunity.