Dean Friedman & Juliet Meyers

Singer-songwriter Dean "Lucky Stars" Friedman and comedian Juliet Meyers bring in panels from an underground comics legend and an interesting twist on America's most famous newspaper strip.

See the images from the episode here on the blog (they're also in the podcast artwork).

Every episode, the guests reveal a panel from a comic, we try and guess where it's from, then we chat about it. Half an hour later hopefully we've learned something, or just shown off and had fun along the way.

If you've enjoyed this, why not buy us a virtual coffee at Kev F's Ko-Fi page.

Your host, and series creator, is Kev F Sutherland, writer and artist for Beano, Marvel, Oink, The Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre, and most recently author and artist of graphic novels based on Shakespeare. kevfcomicartist.com

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Transcript

Kev F: 0:00

Okay, so we have a pet dog on Dean's screen. And with Juliet, we're never far away from it all.

Juliet Myers: 0:06

I was just about to say the bloody he's just stolen um a milk cart. I don't know if you can hear him, but I'm like, mate, stop it.

Dean Friedman: 0:14

That's really funny.

Kev F: 0:15

Comic cuts. We're looking at a panel, and we comprise a panel. There's a few of us. So the panel sees a panel, then we talk about the comics from the panel we discuss and we call it Comic Cuts. Be honest. I love it.

Juliet Myers: 0:27

I love it. I'm impressed that you did it live.

Kev F: 0:30

Today's recording may include strong language and adult themes if you're really, really lucky. Hello and welcome to Comic Cuts, the panel show. My name's Kev F. Sutherland. You might know me as a writer and artist for Beano, Marvel Comics, or Inc. Doctor Who, the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre, and my graphic novel adaptations of Shakespeare. But chances are you probably don't. My guests today, Talking Comics, are Dean Friedman and Juliet Myers. Hello.

Dean Friedman: 0:57

Hello.

Kev F: 0:58

I have two guests with me today who brought with them a panel from a comic or something close. We're going to see if we can identify it and talk about it. Maybe we and you will learn something about comics we didn't already know, or maybe we'll just show off a bit and have an enjoyable chat. Let's see. Joining me from Peakskill, upstate New York, is Dean Friedman. Hi, Dean. Hey Kev. Pleased to be here. You're pleased to be here with uh with your air con in the background. A thunderstorm outside, am I right?

Dean Friedman: 1:26

That's right. So everything is a little precarious. If my signal suddenly disappears, it is probably not a nuclear attack.

Kev F: 1:34

Now everybody knows Dean in this country for lucky stars, which must be an absolute pain. I mean, is it a pain to be so known for one piece of music when you've made so much music?

Dean Friedman: 1:44

Well, it is sort of a double-edged uh uh uh uh sword. Uh but uh listen, I'm pleased that you know that uh there are folks out there that uh uh enjoy it. And uh uh although it is admittedly uh one of the corniest uh uh pop duets of all time, uh, but I'm really, really proud of it.

Kev F: 2:05

It's it's so participatable. I mean you when you do it live, the whole audience joins in, right?

Dean Friedman: 2:11

Uh yeah, my favorite part is when some big bloke in the front row goes, Did you see Lisa? Do you still love me? You know, it's like it's uh it's always uh an adventure.

Kev F: 2:23

And you've been covered by bare-naked ladies and Ben Foles Five.

Dean Friedman: 2:28

That's true. It's uh nice uh to have influenced uh uh a new generation of uh i irresponsible, irrepressible songwriters, including half man, half biscuit. Oh yes, well, that's another tale entirely. I'll go and tell that tale. All right, real briefly, uh I was in New York and got a call from a good friend in London. Uh Andy, he said, Dean, something's going on here you need to know about. I said, All right, what? And he said, Well, there's a punk band uh Merseyside named Half Man, Half Biscuit. I said, That's a funny name for a band. He said, That's not the funny part, Dean. I said, Oh, what's the funny part? He goes, Well, they just put out a best-selling EP, and uh the title track is uh The Bastard Son of Dean Friedman. Now I was skeptical, I thought I was just kidding until I landed at Heathway Airport to start a tour, and sure enough, there was the EP, Bastard Son of Dean Friedman, at which point I got a little bit nervous, as you might imagine. After all, I am Dean Friedman. Uh and and I was increasingly concerned until I finally did the math. I calculated that in order for me to have fathered this guy, Nigel Blackwell, the lead singer-songwriter for Half Man, Half Biscuit, I would have had to have done so when I was seven. Uh so uh I was greatly relieved. Uh although I listened to it, it's a hilarious song. Your listeners should check it out. Just type in the bastard son of Dean Friedman, uh, and you'll hear it. And uh Nigel Blackwell, terrific songwriter. Half Man, Half Biscuit are kicking band. And although I did uh uh vow that uh one day I would exact my revenge, which I finally did, uh, when I wrote uh A Baker's Tale, which is uh the tale of the dubious origins of one Nigel Blackwell of Half Man Half Bisco.

Kev F: 4:08

Which is worth checking out online as well. And one thing I didn't know, because I know you obviously as a singer-songwriter, was that you were a video games designer at some point. The video game eaterbug. That's you, right?

Dean Friedman: 4:18

That is me. And uh after I was dropped by my label uh when McDonald's girl was banned by the BBC, I spent a lot of time working with synthesizers and just exploring, you know, new cutting-edge uh audio and video technologies. And I saw uh a demonstration of a camera-based VR system, which was the predecessor to the Microsoft Connect, you know, or Wii, where you're inside a video game and interacting with objects. And I thought, wow, that's amazing, it's magical. Uh and I bought a developer's kit, and I just fooling around designed a game called Edabug, which I somehow managed to license to Nickelodeon uh television. So for a few years, late 80s, early 90s, uh I was designing and developing all these leading-edged VR games for uh TV and children's museums and theme parks all over the world. It was a crazy time. It was a little ahead of its time. Uh, and eventually I was drawn back into the uh the the wild world of uh music, uh where I uh uh continue to pursue whatever it is I do.

Kev F: 5:24

Including the new album American Lullaby, which I've had the extreme privilege to hear an advanced copy of, which I've got to say, it it could be your best album.

Dean Friedman: 5:33

That's really nice to hear, Kev. Uh, you know, you try and you know not rest on whatever laurels you have, if you have any. It's uh sort of a chronicle of these last six crazy years that this world has uh been experiencing, sort of seen through a lens going back 400 years, because you know, we didn't get here overnight, dealing with just our history of uh of of violence, you know, in spite of all the elevated things that we keep aspiring to do, uh, and our uh impossible to understand love affair with guns that we have in America, uh, which is uh this unique obsession. Anyway, so uh I I try to deal with that, and it's an American lullaby because, like all lullabies, it it tries to address difficult subjects. So, yeah, it deals with our original sins, but it's also you know, it's filled with you know humor and and ridiculousness and uh just tries to put it all in context because uh, you know, as Juliet well knows, you you can you can't remain sane uh without having a sense of humor about all the inanities that uh surround us.

Kev F: 6:39

Now, talking of my second guest and connecting you in a way that I was quite pleased to find when I was researching you both, Dean, I hadn't realized that your sister was a TV producer and executive producer of the sitcom Blossom. Am I right?

Dean Friedman: 6:52

Uh that's true, yeah. Um she uh uh was a writer and producer uh out on the West Coast uh and has done a lot of TV work.

Kev F: 7:02

And although it's it's neither of your greatest claims to fame, you both have siblings who made TV shows. Julia, your brother produced uh current BAFTA winner, I May Destroy You. Yes, yes.

Juliet Myers: 7:12

That's so cool. Yeah, it is. It's weird because I sort of feel like I'm trying to claim it as a bit of like, well, book me. If you like him, book me.

Kev F: 7:24

Another thing for getting booked is uh the titles of the various shows we put together, and you've got one of my favorite dated titles for one of your Edinburgh shows from maybe about 10 years ago, was it? Myerspace.

Juliet Myers: 7:36

Oh, yes, yes.

Kev F: 7:37

You can't explain that to the kids.

Juliet Myers: 7:39

I know what was the theme of Myerspace? I think it was just the theme was pretty much me. It was just a neat title, but yes, massively, massively dated. The show was in a nightclub space that flooded regularly, and it was one of the most horrendous years for doing Edinburgh. It was the first time I'd ever felt a bit old because I wanted to say to them, can you turn on some lights, please? Eternally dark, and but I think the final day, just as I was beginning to despair, I went in and one of the someone had pulled the toilets off the wall and it had flooded everywhere. And one of the other comedians was so sweetly helping mop up, whereas I just stood on the stood on the sidelines and swore.

Dean Friedman: 8:30

Well, you know, it seems to me, Julia, you could have retitled it Mayum Space, because that's Hebrew for water. Oh and and that's also Mayum Bialek's first name from Blossom. Oh, of course, yes.

Kev F: 8:44

The the Edinburgh Fringe Experience is an odd thing to explain to anybody who's never been there. Pretty well everyone who describes an Edinburgh Sco describes something that you would never want to go to. They describe usually a disaster. And uh people are always asked, comedians always ask, so why do you do it? So why do you do it?

Juliet Myers: 8:59

I think it's because it's it is, I think it is a compulsion, and I suppose because it's nice to be able to work to be working on something that you feel is truly yours and not just uh something for a Friday night and a Saturday night crowd.

Kev F: 9:13

For people who have never been to the Edward Fringe, what they probably don't realize is if you see comedians in comedy clubs, they'll usually perform for about 20 minutes, 30 minutes if you're lucky, if they're lucky. Sometimes they're only performing for seven minutes at a time. And the Edinburgh Fringe and the touring shows that go with it, one of the few times you get to perform an hour-long, uh usually themed show. I mean, are yours usually themed or themed, or do you just stick all your stuff together and time it?

Juliet Myers: 9:38

I think I've done both, but latterly they've been themed. Yeah. You know, I always liken it a bit to loads of sperm going towards an egg, and everyone's just all these comedians going in trains and cars towards the Edinburgh fringe. And one of them, one of us.

Kev F: 9:57

One of us makes that great big breakthrough, which is live at the Apollo.

Juliet Myers: 10:03

Yes, oh God.

Kev F: 10:04

Now, uh, some of your themes recently have included Homer. And before anybody thinks uh you're getting too high for looting with your classical references, tell us who Homer is.

Juliet Myers: 10:14

Homer is my rescue dog from Portugal. He's an ex-street dog. I'd wanted a dog for years, like I'd always wanted a dog and thought I can't have a dog because my life doesn't allow it. And then actually, I got a review in Edinburgh that I thought was slightly insulting, and it almost made me go, I'm giving up comedy, I'm getting a dog. The rescue center were like, you know, I said I'm inquiring about Homer, and they said, Do you want to go and see him? And I said, Yes, please. But it did go quite quickly. So then one night in a comedy club, the promoter said to me, Can you go on later? And I said, But I've got to collect the dog. And I thought about lying and saying, I've got to collect my child. And he said, You could have brought the dog. And I, when I did that club, which is top secret comedy club in London, I did take Homer with me. And weirdly, like I thought he was gonna look after Homer, but he said, No, no, I can't, I'm comparing. So I took Homer on stage, he took to it like a duck to water and was shaking hands with people and you know, walking up and down the aisle, schmoozing and yawning and cleaning himself during my punchlines. So then this sort of semi-double act was born, and I did my show with Homer. Yeah. That's wonderful.

Kev F: 11:32

I have asked everyone on the panel to bring a panel to the panel. You can see these images on my website at kefcomicartist.com, or you should find them on the holding artwork for this episode of the podcast, uh, wherever you get your podcasts from. But don't worry if you can't see the images we're about to look at, because we're going to describe them. And um, I think I'd like to begin by looking at the image that Juliet has brought. There, we are looking at a panel brought by Juliet Myers. Now, Juliet, don't spoil anything for us yet, because Dean, you're gonna describe this for the innocent listener at home. What are we looking at?

Dean Friedman: 12:09

All right, well, we're looking at uh a classic bit from uh Peanuts cartoons, Charlie Brown uh and his gang. Uh, and it's the meme where Lucy is uh taking away the football after convincing Charlie Brown that she promises she's not gonna pull it away as he tries to kick it. And he has this eternal forgiveness and faith that the same stupid thing is not gonna happen again. But sure enough, she pulls away the football and he goes flying on his ass. But this interpretation of that, uh, instead of Charlie Brown and Lucy, it's a Charlie Brownish uh caricature of uh our erstwhile US president uh Trump as Charlie Brown, uh and and and instead of Lucy yanking the football out of his path, uh, it's a certain North Korean dictator uh with this uh that that same uh ill young whatever his name is uh uh haircut and uh suit uh with a big smile on his face, uh having done the same thing everyone knew he was going to do time and time and time again, uh, which is uh keep testing his nuclear uh long-range missiles.

Kev F: 13:24

So it's a hilarious strip. Listener at home. Usually by now, I would have been describing the line work, I'd have been describing the techniques that we used, and we'd still be guessing at where this comes from. But of course, as Dean has said, it's impossible to look at this and not immediately see Charles M. Schultz's Charlie Brown, and then almost immediately afterwards realize we're looking at a parody of it. So there's nothing I can tell you about it except that it's in colour, uh, which was uh quite unusual. Only the Sunday strips of uh Peanuts were usually in colour. The daily strips were in black and white, but this is a parody anyway. So I think the onus is on Dean and I to guess where this parody could be from. Dean, where would you think this was from?

Dean Friedman: 14:01

Gee, not a clue. I have to confess, but it is hilarious every time I look at it again.

Kev F: 14:07

And I'm thinking, because Juliet's brought it in, it's got to be from some magazine. I would have said, because of the political satire, that it was national lampoon, but that would have to be back in the day because there is no national lampoon anymore. And uh, well, I don't know what parody magazines there are. I can only think of mad magazine. And I don't think mad magazine is even around anymore, is it? Juliet, put us out of our misery. Where's it from? Um, I believe it is mad magazine.

Juliet Myers: 14:30

Okay. I did get it off the internet, I have to admit. But as far as I know, it is mad magazine and it is still going in some shape or form.

Kev F: 14:39

I guess mad continues online, and an old an old guy like me thinks of mad magazine as a thing that's a magazine. I mean, Dean, did you read Mad as a kid?

Dean Friedman: 14:47

Oh, absolutely. I had the Mad Burp record and uh read it religiously.

Kev F: 14:53

When they started repeating, uh well, they were constantly doing reprints over here, and there was a pull-out section in the center, this is the late 70s, which would include reprints of the Harvey Kurtzman Mads from 1950 to 54, however long they ran. Which was a totally different magazine because it was a comic book, a full-color comic book, all done with strips. But by the time of the 70s, it'd become the mad magazine that we all recognize, where you'd have a parody of a movie up front, a parody of a movie or TV show up back, and then lots of illustrated text humour. Juliet, tell us more about Mad.

Juliet Myers: 15:27

See, for me, what I loved about Mad was that my brother got it, my older brother got it when I was a kid. Right. And there was something so wonderful. Just as a kid, we just adored how transgressive it seems and how naughty it seems. And the guy, what was he? I can't remember what he was called now. Alfred, the goofy guy.

Kev F: 15:49

Alfred E. Newman.

Juliet Myers: 15:50

That's right. What me wearing?

Kev F: 15:52

He was so creepy. There are some faces that are very creepy. Howdy doody, not pretty well known over here, but he's got a really scary face, Howdy Doody, the ventral crystal. And uh Alfred E. Newman. I don't know if if it's the wideness of his face or just the distorted and yet near realism.

Juliet Myers: 16:09

Yes, like my brother and I would get the magazine, and my parents would always be like, Oh, we don't like it, but we loved it because we got it. You know, and and it almost felt like reading something we weren't supposed to. But for me, I hadn't realized until recently that Mad used to parody a lot of peanuts and Snoopy. Right. And to me, they're two of my favorite things, you know. Like I read so much Snoopy and Peanuts. I'm gonna have to stop there and say I've never fully understood the difference between Snoopy and Peanuts.

Kev F: 16:45

Peanuts was the name that uh Charles M. Schultz was given for the strips. He didn't he never wanted to be called to call it Peanuts. It started off called Lil Folk, L apostrophe I L folk, and he would have he would have liked to have called it Charlie Brown, who was his favourite uh lead character. And then later Snoopy would have been an obvious title. But by then, uh United features syndicate, I think it was. Anyway, they uh gave him the name, they said it's called Peanuts, and they'd started syndicated it, and then there was nothing he could do about it, but he hated the title. I mean, I guess it grew on him with the encroaching years and money, but uh the movies are all called Charlie Brown and Peanuts, Charlie Brown's Christmas, Snoopy's, whatever.

Juliet Myers: 17:26

Yeah, and I just loved, I mean, I absolutely, you know, even now I always think of Charlie Brown being so anxious, and Snoopy just being like, whatever. And that's just me and Homer again. We're both dumb, but one of us is kind of perfectly happy, and the other one's going, Oh no, I better do this, or what should I say there?

Kev F: 17:46

Yeah, the Charlie Brown roster of characters, who by the way, we're now talking about Charlie Brown, we've dropped mad, we're talking Charlie Brown. Uh Charlie Brown's rosters of characters. Is that the thunder at your end, Dean?

Dean Friedman: 17:56

That's the thunder. Absolutely. But speaking of Charlie Brown and Peanuts, uh, if I could just add, I'm one of four kids, uh, and I have an older sister, Erica. And the best way to get her totally furious was to call her Lucy. Because she had uh I can't deny it, she had Lucy's personality. She could be really mean and uh you know yank that football uh out uh out of your way. But uh so yeah, and still to this day, if you if you even allude to her uh you know being called Lucy, she'll just get the stern expression of fury.

Kev F: 18:38

He did capture so many great uh archetypes where you've got Schroeder, you've got Linus, you've got Pig Pen, you've got Patty, and such different characters. None could read the other person's lines.

Juliet Myers: 18:51

No, and Patty actually, I remember being intrigued by, but as a kid, you just sort of notice something, but you don't question it. That you know, that she was this sort of tomboy-ish, not caring, slightly odds character, which was quite refreshing.

Kev F: 19:06

Yeah, I I don't know if she identifies as gender non-binary, but you know, it was such an advanced strip, which will be why it survived so well, because he goes through the 60s and he's challenging just like the kids who by then are 15, 20 years younger than him. He's challenging society just like they am. He he he's not being uh a reactionary by any means.

Juliet Myers: 19:26

No, no, and I just love that, but also I was gonna say, um, I love the fact that he was perfectly okay with Mad playing around with his strips and aging Charlie and you know, kind of slightly, kind of utterly taking the Mickey and making it a lot more subversive. But he apparently he was like, you know what, I love it.

Kev F: 19:49

It must be weird when you've got to that position in the culture that you are so revered that everybody automatically has to mock you, you're automatically public domain or f or. Fair game. Uh, who else would be as big as Charles Schultz and Peanuts as far as comic strips were concerned in the late 20th century? Hard to think of anyone. And the funny pages. I mean, Dean, you did the song Funny Pages.

Dean Friedman: 20:14

Uh, yeah, funny papers, uh, off my uh, I guess my very first album. And that was, you know, that was uh an important part of Sunday was uh picking up the uh the Sunday news and and sitting around reading the funny papers. You know, when I grew up with black and white television, and when our neighbors across the street got uh their first color TV, the colors were so rich and vibrant that you could see them across the street through their window. Like all these oranges and and blues and greens radiating uh and and literally radiating. So it I I I think I became addicted to that kind of impact, that that sort of color. So the funny papers uh I I I still we still get Prince Valiant uh reprinted here, and uh you know, with all the rich illustrations and backgrounds and the heyday of those of those newspaper strips really comes about because it's the only place that you can get that stuff.

Kev F: 21:11

The only place you can get the variety of artists making humor, making adventure, making political cartoons, making spot cartoons, making continued cartoons. All those things happen in the syndicated pages. Uh, and uh, for some listeners in the UK won't realize that the uh American papers syndicate from a central base because you get local papers, there's very few national papers. Um, and so uh every city would have a different lineup of characters. Some people might be getting Doonesbury and uh Peanuts and Dick Tracy, and then um the next town along would be getting a different lineup of characters. And maybe not everybody got everything or had to get uh two, three papers in order to get everything that the rest of the country might have been talking about.

Dean Friedman: 21:53

I've never mentioned this to you, Kev, but it just occurred to me that before I was ever born, uh my father, uh who eventually became uh a director of TV commercials, uh, his first gigs at a college, he went to art college, uh, he did a comic strip called Willy Woo. Uh uh and about this talking zebra. And uh I've only been able to find like just two panels uh uh and old archival newspaper clippings. Um but uh he did the illustration. I f uh I forget the woman who wrote the the stories and text, but uh that's how he started out, uh uh first as an illustrator, then as an animator, and then he just went into live-action uh directing. But uh he he also uh did cartoons for color forms. He designed uh like Miss Cookie's Kitchen and Miss Cookie's Playroom. Uh so when I was a little kid, uh he would have these color forms cutouts that he would uh be working on and designing all over the kitchen table. Uh and as a kid, you know, we would try them out and test them out. So it was a medium that I I it was a big part of my growing up, and I guess I never got over it.

Kev F: 23:05

How fantastic. So we've just been looking at Mad Magazine's parody, uh signed by someone whose name appears to be Chaffee. Uh a parody of Charles M. Schultz's peanuts from Mad Magazine from uh the 2020s. And now I think we should have a look at what Dean has brought along. Now, listener at home, you should be able to see this image on the website kevfcomicartist.com and on the holding image for this episode of the podcast, depending on where you get your podcasts from. But don't worry if you can't see the image because we are about to describe it, aren't we, Juliet?

Juliet Myers: 23:43

Yes, wow. God, where to start? So there is what to me looks like a really ugly, pervy guy grabbing the ass or the ass for American listeners of a woman. I don't know. Um, I'm trying to read the uh speech captions at the same time for any clues of who the woman is. Um he is grabbing the ass cheek of this woman who's got a big bum, uh, a very cavaceous, nice bum, but a big bum. And he's the guy has got like spectacles on that are kind of nerdy, and he's got gappy teeth, and he's ugly. And there's also the it actually looks like he's slapping it rather than grabbing it, and he's saying, Don't worry, I like your body, I'd keep you around just for this, but oh my god, uh that is a that thing is a wonder of nature. And then he's saying, Oh gulp, and she's looking kind of slightly vacant into the middle distance. No, he's not quite grabbing her boob, he's grabbing around the side in the uh with the other hand. Um, and she's saying, What about my personality?

Kev F: 25:00

For the benefit of the panelologists at home who study line and technique. I can tell you that this is a line drawing done, I would say in pen, although it will include some brush. It's a black and white drawing intended to be seen in black and white. I don't think it's ever been intended to be seen in colour. There's lots of hatching, um, there's lots of uh texture in a bare wood floor and the hatched shadows on chairs, tablecloths, and a sink unit behind. It's a very characteristic style that I instantly recognize. So my guess will come second. Juliet, do you want to have a guess of where you think this may be from?

Juliet Myers: 25:35

I don't know. See, I'm intrigued because even though the guy is horrific, I'm assuming it's something pretty intelligent and that it's sending up the guy. It's you know, it's not meant as someone going, oh yeah, well, it's it feels very intelligent. It feels quite I use this word in a very broad brushstroke, quite beatneck-y and bohemian.

Kev F: 26:00

But what it's from, oh could you could you guess maybe at a decade it could be from? 60s? Okay, well, I am gonna say that I know that the artist is Robert Crum, and anybody who's seen Robert Crumb's artwork will be familiar with his style. Uh, the the creepy, ugly guy with the glasses and the moustache is also, I believe, Robert Crumb. He's putting himself in the stories as he does with many, many of his works, and he's being quite cruel to himself. Uh, he's been quite cruel to the whole rest of the world. And uh whether he's seeing the woman's side of the story, well, uh we'll find out. I'm gonna guess, and I don't know where it's from, is it from Zap Comics, which would be circa 1969? Dean, tell us.

Dean Friedman: 26:44

Uh, this is uh a panel from uh one of my favorite uh comic collections, which is called Dirty Laundry. And it it's by R. Crum and his wife Aileen Kaminsky together. And it it's a really unique collection. R. Crum is pretty much the the the godfather of underground comics. He uh, you know, he drew Mr. Natural, Fritz the Cat, uh, and uh was uh really uh at the head of the underground comic scene in the United States. And all his work is very self-deprecating. He's uh an admitted uh sex perv. His comics are filled with convoluted, uh, you know, physically impossible sex acts, uh, but also infused with uh uh really insightful views of human behavior uh during that uh you know early and you know uh even to modern day uh the but originally with that hip hippie era, that ethos. Uh he he and his wife you know lived for a while in a commune, uh, but he they wound up in France. What's really unique uh and special about uh these comics as opposed to all his other work is that he he described it uh in some ways as that he and Aileen Kaminsky, who's a Jewish girl from Long Island, are the John and Gyoko uh of the underground comic world. Because what he did is she did her own underground comics and he uh invited her to co-write the comic series with him. And so all the uh these comic collections ha are uh a collaboration uh both in the artwork and the drawings because she draws herself and he draws himself. Right. And and wow he draws some panels uh the text, and she responds with her panels in the text. So it's a really in-depth, intimate personal observational work about their uh marriage, about their life together and their kid. And it gets uh you know, really, really intimate and uh uh uh uh uh you know shockingly so, but also uh it's so relatable if you have come from some like this environment. And just to be clear, you know, even though he seems to be abusing her, uh she gives as good as she gets. Uh and she uh uh it it's really refreshing and liberating, and uh they they share sort of mutually uh compatible uh aspects, uh you know, in terms of their view of sex and life and and independence. And uh but it's it it's this window to their world, uh which they're unabashed about, that is just really amazing and delightful. I I re and they've been doing it for years. Uh, and then they had a daughter, Sophie, and and they brought her along to uh have comics as well. It's certainly stuff that might not be suitable for children, which he acknowledges in the comic book. One of the panels on that page was, oh my god, what how what's gonna happen when my daughter looks at this comic? How am I gonna explain it to her?

Kev F: 30:20

Well, yeah, I mean that's the problem with a lot of of Crumb's work, is that he's never been afraid to go beyond the boundaries of good taste and acceptability. But I would guess that Aileen Kaminsky's uh involvement in this kind of mitigates the the sexism of a lot of his 60s and 70s work, like Fritz the Cat, for example, which is kind of guy orientated, wasn't it?

Dean Friedman: 30:41

It's true. And for w w whatever misogyny he he owns up to is more than balanced by her ability to the another panel uh in the comic is uh you know, she's saying, Oh, I I like the fact that you can uh suppress some of my rambunctiousness. Uh but but just remember I can bump you with her and with her tush, she bumps them out of the frame. And it's literally their their comic brilliant dialogue is literally bouncing off of each other. And it's a wonderful thing to behold.

Juliet Myers: 31:15

I mean, I'm now so intrigued that something when I first looked at it, I thought, uh I'm now like, wow, that's really cool that it was a collaboration and that it's a confessional.

Dean Friedman: 31:26

You know, there's a brilliant uh R. And in it, he he tells this just like just fascinating anecdote. Uh, as a kid, he became uh obsessed with Bugs Bunny. And not just obsessed, he he acknowledges on camera, he says, you know, I had these sexual arousal, you know, uh feelings at seeing Bugs Bunny. And to think of that kind of uh self-admission in the context of the way he draws and the things that he draws is uh is pretty amazing. And then for him to collaborate, you know, I also I uh I it's it it's a funny analogy, but I think of uh Paul McCartney bringing Linda on stage to play in his band. Yeah. And that's to some people that was horrible. But you know, as a musician, um, I really always had great respect for that, as I do for for for what he's doing. You know, when you're a musician uh and you start working in uh a a realm that you might consider you know professional, there's uh this pressure to only use top-notch uh proven professionals with credits and credentials and not your friends. And uh th that's something that I I I always question. Because if you're gonna spend uh a big portion of your life working, you know, even if it's doing something that you love, uh d do you have to you know dismiss those people that you're close to that you really like spending time with just because they might not be the best guitar player or the best drummer. And uh uh so you know he and her drawing is not quite as refined as his, uh, and yet there's a spirit to her drawing uh that uh is genuine and uh and has as powerful uh an impact emotionally to the story as his fine hatchwork and uh characterization. Yeah, so I just love that he did it, and I know some people think he's a huge asshole in an SOB, uh, which he very well may be, but in terms of uh what he's showing the world and sharing uh about his relationship, I just got uh uh endless respect for what they both do.

Juliet Myers: 33:43

So are we saying that Aileen drew herself there? Yes. And he drew himself. Wow, I'm so intrigued by that.

Dean Friedman: 33:51

Uh you'll love the rest of the comic book. Uh I urge you to check them out. They're on Amazon, I'm sure you can order it in the UK.

Kev F: 33:57

Yeah. That was Dirty Laundry by Robert Crumb and Aileen Kaminsky, brought in by Dean Friedman. And before that, we were looking at Matt magazine parodying peanuts by Charles M. Schultz. Thank you to Dean and to Juliet for bringing in those wonderful suggestions. Um, if you want to ask us any questions, you can find us all on our various social media. Juliet, where would we find you?

Juliet Myers: 34:20

Um, you can find me on Twitter at Juliet Myers, which is J-U-L-I-E-T-M-E-Y-E-R S. And uh also Instagram at Jules Y Myers.

Kev F: 34:33

And Dean, where do we find you?

Dean Friedman: 34:34

All those likely places. Uh uh my website's deanfriedman.com. Uh, and you know, at Dean Friedman on Twitter and uh Dean Friedman Music on Facebook and uh, you know, all over the joint.

Kev F: 34:48

And I'm on Twitter at Kev F Comic Artist and on the website, KevfcomicArtist.com. Please click subscribe to be sure of hearing every episode when it comes out, and leave us a review, why don't you? Thanks again to Dean Friedman and Juliet Myers and to you for listening. I've been Kev F, and this has been Comic Cuts, the panel show. And wait, wait, wait, don't run away. We're not playing out with my usual end music. No, we're leaving you with something very special by Dean Friedman himself.

Dean Friedman: 35:14

See you next time. Superman is a friend of mine. It's no different than me to you. And when the rest of the guests get there, those burgers are medium rare, and I'm a hop nobbin'. Hop nobbin. Saying a meal with a man of steel, hop nobbin', hop, hanging loose with the cat named Ruce and I'm a hop nobbin'. DC hop nobbin' with Batman Robin. It's not other than the cake and seta. Play a pop, stuff with the X-Men. The penguin and the smoking and jumping. And I'm hop nobody Making the scene. Talking trash with a player, hop no, getting the swing, hop nothing with that man rubbin, is the man on a gate, suck you. So we do the way the way we open the door, the way we walk in the funny stuff. He's a pretty introspective guy. He's not all that dynamic. Let's hang around in the wheel of the hammock. Spot is in for a shock. Swindle in the dance with a hop nobbin'. Hop nobbin. Hop nobbin. When they return the music is poppin'. Join us, jump stand in the sky and the cat's busy. So we join them at a party. Hop nobbin. Making the scene. Hop nomin. Talking trash with the flash. Hop nobbin. Hop nobbin with Batman and Robin. It's something we'll give you in the back, man. Let me check that stuff a little bit. Ice man, would you be some kind of you cubes in my dream? That's a little pain in the side right now. Let's listen.