https://www.israel21c.org/try-the-wine-that-king-david-and-jesus-may-have-sipped/
https://www.recanati-winery.com/en/bittuni-a-fresh-new-israeli-wine-from-ancient-local-grapes/
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Welcome to episode 10. of Shebrews Hebrews a Jewish fermenting podcast were hoped to get us all things home reading from it. Today, we were talking about ancient Jewish wines and their monetary creations. I'm your host, Evan Harris broadcasting live from inside a snow globe. And with me today is my cohost Alison. Shay
Alison:how are you doing?
Evan:I'm doing well. It is quite snowy up here in the mountains.
Alison:Meanwhile here in the Carolinas, I was just sitting outside without a sweater on, because it is like 66 and beautiful. So,
Evan:well, I mean, given the number of years I spent in the Midwest, I could sit outside without it, without long sleeves on. I don't feel like it today.
Alison:Rather enjoyed by whether you can enjoy
Evan:yours. I mean, until earlier this week, it was in the fifties and sixties here and it was wonderful.
Alison:That's really nice.
Evan:This week, it's taken a turn for the colder.
Alison:Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty happy to not be wearing a jacket and leftover or even a sweater in October, but I mean, I haven't seen snow since. Early 2017 and it would be nice just a little bit. I don't need a lot. I don't want to see it falling, but
Evan:we should come visit him and I can try and get one of the dogs in the buildings and run outside in the snow.
Alison:That would be excellent and adorable. And it's part of that. So when you're drinking J
Evan:right now, I've got some nice port, nice warming beverage for this weather, which before recording is sitting in front of a fireplace as well. We're very felt very nice.
Alison:It's very nice. I am drinking, North Carolina, scupper 91. Previously you've heard me talking about, making Skeppernog online. You've heard me making stubborn online. and I have no bottled it. It's all bottled up. It's actually quite tasty. Like I was expecting to have something that was like moderately drinkable. I thought it would be okay. It's actually. A very nice wine. Like it's not, it's not winning any awards, but I would say a very solid grapefruity Rosa. So I'm really happy with that, how that experiment turned out and kind of hoarding the bottles, which is why I'm not drinking it right now. But I figured in honor of that, and in honor of today's topic, which is, wines made from native grapes, I am drinking a wine made out of a grape that's native towards. Frankly, I think mine is better than the store bought one, but a drinkable. So I have actually tried one of I've actually tried a couple of the lines that we're going to be talking about later today. but, you hear it when you talk about wines, there's a lot of discussion about region and the way soil affects the grapes. There's a lot of talk about different grape varieties. Different grape varieties will, will have different tastes in different areas. There's a lot of factors that go into it. But also the grapes that we usually drink, I mean, unless you're deliberately buying some North Carolina Skeppernog or in general Muscatine wine, in the Southeast us, most of the grape varieties that we drink today are going to be French.
Evan:Yes, that's correct. Especially in the Americas. And in Israel and most places, honestly,
Alison:And there is a lot of historical reasons behind that. There's so many mentions of wine and grapes, in the Bible and in the Tacoma and they use it for all. These are for sacrificial purposes. They eat grapes. It's one of the seven species of the lands. So it's really, really culturally important. We talk about it a lot. We talk about it in terms of cashews, in terms of our blessings, in terms of, our ag, the, the, I guess, agriculture of the land, or however you would call it, it shows up in so many different ways. And the historical evolution of it being. In Israel, or what is modern day Israel, is, is really fascinating. because one of the things you have to think about when you talk about grapes, being granted in Israel is you have to talk about who owns the land and what was going on at that time. So we do have archeological evidence of. Not ancient, but an old winery in the area dating back 1500 years, which is not, not biblical times. It's not Talmudic times. Actually it is talmudic it's the, or
Evan:the late Tom mood. Uh, and I think for simplicity today, well, at this point, at that point, Israel would have been controlled by what we never called the Byzantine empire, or the Eastern Roman empire. And would have been part of the Byzantine province of Syria Palestina, which was renamed in the one forties by emperor, hatred, for simplicity. We, I think we should just refer to it as Israel, which is we don't want to go through what every single territorial and bureaucratic change of name, this
Alison:the Lavant,
Evan:but the Avantis that is the greater region, which was what makes up Sarah Palestinian up. I'm Roman times,
Alison:but in general, we're referring to the same area. Like the, I mean, obviously you've gotten desert, but in general, the things being grown in the area is roughly the same. The cuisine is roughly the same. All of that is roughly the same. And there was lots of great growing in the region. And, when. They were conquered by the Rashi done caliphate. It's entirely possible. I'm mispronouncing that in the sixth. Yeah. In the six hundreds who were Muslim, califate coming in and conquering the area, conquering the whole Avanse, they're Muslims. So they don't consume wine. They don't consume alcohol. And a lot of vineyards and wineries were destroyed as a result. So there is archeological evidence of wine being produced, but there's not a lot. And, They came in and they destroyed all of these wine-making vineyards, were grazed for being produced. So pretty much the grapes that are, that remain are just be increase.
Evan:Th that's right. And well, in the classical period, there may not have been as much a distinction. The oldest vines make better wine grapes, which would have been just frequently have been destroyed. And even if. California government was okay with it. Not the best one may not have been and things changed. And for the most part, though, Jews lived relatively peacefully under the various caliphs at this time then came also the crusaders who just destroyed whatever they felt like.
Alison:Yeah. So it's a region with a lot of historical strike. I mean, there's. As we all know, there's lots of historic, there's lots of modern day strife there. but historically you've got massive regime changes. You've got, you've got all sorts of different warring parties going on there and it, you know, if you're a little farmer or if you're a farmer in the Lavant in those days, you want to do something that's going to keep you as safe as possible. And also, hopefully. Miscellaneous groups from stealing everything you make or burning down your vineyard or running whatever your crops are. So that's really something in consideration when I'm thinking about, okay. What survived, what didn't survive, what we have records of. so it's, it's interesting to consider things through that one. And there are, there are scholars who do this specifically. We will post a couple of articles and it's where we get a lot of information from. It's really interesting. but basically, this guy named Les Shi Drori, at our L university, If he's a researcher, he owns a winery called in Israel. and he studied all sorts of indigenous grapes in the area. just looking for the native wine grapes that they talk about in the Talmud and they found a whole load of them. A bunch of his students did all, like they went around collecting wild grapevines. they did all sorts of research. They found all different, unique Israeli varieties of grape, that like I've never heard of. Nobody's ever heard of no many deals with them because we're all so busy paying attention to French wines. yeah. So.
Evan:Most wine varieties worldwide now are French and Israel games. A lot of the modern grape vineyards, when, Baron Rothschild, since grapevines three grown in Israel, thinking it would is parts of Israel where the ideal climate, which they are, but they were French grapevines. And this is actually before the of European wine blight. So, and to my knowledge, the wind blade did not actually affect the avant. so many of the French grapes in Israel actually may be older than the French creeps in France and Spanish grapes in Spain, which has many of those grapes were repopulated after the wine blades in the 1920s, from grapes from America.
Alison:Yeah. Man, we should talk about that. Have we talked
Evan:about that yet? We've not. We could do a whole episode on it. I've actually been to one of the few vineyards that survived in Europe.
Alison:Anyways, the, this Laurie is pretty much that people kept trying to figure out why they couldn't grow grapes in the Southeast us pretty much in the same reason they're reaching that Muscatine's grow. couldn't figure it out. They shipped, they shipped grapes back and forth. To, between, Southeast us and France. And, there was a wind blade, essentially wiped out tons of winery, tons of, of vineyards. and France basically tried, had to try and repopulate all of its grapes so that.
Evan:Lost almost all the grape growing capacity I'm doing. I believe Switzerland lost a large portion, but not all of it. Uh, because the wide blade is actually, it's not a virus or bacteria, like many, agricultural lights. It's a very small, but it's nearly microscopic that attacks the roofs.
Alison:So the places that still have. French grapes that are pre blight are pretty much relatively remote areas who Chile has a whole load of them. Israel's got a whole bunch of them. but California,
Evan:whole bunch of them. And one,
Alison:it was kind of part and part. I don't really
Evan:know to my knowledge, California survived. And that's where most of the French streets where repopulated from. Uh, but the one the vineyard I've been to in Portugal, which we could do a whole episode on Portuguese wine and porch and Sherry, we probably will at some point, uh, survive, which is it's a very Sandy soil. So as soon as the blight, the, wind blade was tried, in, since we're trying to dig into the soil to attack the roots, they just, the sand would just, the Sandy soil just collapse something and they couldn't reach the roots.
Alison:Just fascinating. Again, the climate, everything affects, I guess since the last episode we talked about water, just, you have so many different factors that make up a wine, the makeup, a crop in general. And it's one of the, I mean, one of the huge things about modern industrial farming about modern industrial foods in general is that you lose, the diversity of flavor that. Really noticeable by having single origin foods by ha by having a single origin food items I having, on very specific variety, grown in a very specific area. it's
Evan:actually the French used the term terroir for very good reason. France for the size of days has an incredible diversity of, uh, And so just within the country of France, let alone across the world, you can get incredible changes of flavor for the same product or even same varietals grown.
Alison:Yeah. It's really fascinating. And you can, if you go wine tasting and you case, I don't know, two Chardonnays from two different places, it's really astounding. Just how different you can. You can see they are okay. So Baron Edmond, D rough child. grow all those French wine grapes over from board down in the late 19th century. But this guy Drori, who owns the winery. He's he studies wine. he is, I can't pronounce this word. He's an agriculture and any, a lot in a logical researcher. I'm definitely noticing that. Right. Anyways, it's in the article that we will include in the show, but he goes looking and looking. He and his students go looking and looking for different ones and they find a couple. To grapes. There's probably more, but there's two that they've actually successfully made into wines, and goes and makes wine out of, first this one, green grape variety called Murali. And I've actually had it. I've kind of a couple years in a row. I had the original one from 2014 and. That I would say at a vibe, I guess, similar to the scupper, non-line that I'm drinking now where you can tell some, sometimes when you drink a wine, you go, okay, this really obviously came from a green grade and not just, oh, it's white, but. The type of grapes that you eat, you know, from the grocery store, have a very specific freshness and tartness and grassiness. That's really sometimes. And, uh, if you just straight up made wine out of it, and that's really a vibe that you got from the original Murali, look, the story behind it was essentially that, Drori and his students went and they found like this one Palestinian farmer who was just growing grapes. And they asked if they could have a cutting of his grapes and they liked it and they thought they could make wine out of it. And now they, Contracted with this guy. I don't know exactly any sort of, organization behind it, but they, they discovered, you know, this is a super ancient grape, and this is a grape that they probably made one out of 2000 years ago. and now you can buy wine made out of it. And that's called Murali. It's from a, it's from a winery called, recog Nani. And they've. The original one was, was very Grapey, which is like a dis it's just sometimes it's just really noticeable. and as nave continued working with it, it's gotten better and better and they've won awards and they also make another one is called,, bit toony, which is a red one. it's made from a. Red grape. and it's apparently like I've never tried that one, but it's apparently is very light and pleasant, red. That's not very tonic.
Evan:Interesting. I mean, I like 10 points, but I'm always up for a nice refreshing one. I have to try and find both of these in my local liquor store.
Alison:Yeah. so interestingly enough, whole foods often carries, recognized. My dad at one point, took me into a whole foods and says, if you ever going, if you ever going somewhere, this is again, we are not sponsored by anybody. This is purely experience and research. my dad wants, took me into whole foods and was like, we got to find some kosher wine to bring to somebody's house for dinner. You can usually find a recognize me and whole foods and they always have a solid line. like they just, they just make it pretty solid ones. Yeah, so I don't know what they have there. but recognizing makes nice ones perfectly decent with a wide variety of prices. but. around waste improved, over the years. And what's interesting about trying these different grape varieties and you see this, you can go to different places and find that unusual grapes and you try wines made none of them. And you can really tell, you know, this is, this is very different. This is identifiably, a different fruit, and sometimes you have a massive diversity of flavor. between different grade Fridays, and sometimes you don't and sometimes you have like, Muscatine's are notorious for having a very thick skin. And when I made my line, I was very careful. I didn't, I did not want to leave any skin in there. It's very tough skin. they are notoriously Titanic grapes, or at least the red ones are, and it was not something I to include in my wine and it's something I deliberately took out. And do you have another grade, like. which from what I understand, has is the opposite where it has a very thin skin and, and it's, it's a much lighter red. So with the variety of grapes, you get. You have these differences and you learn as align maker, which again, I am not experienced that I've done this once. Even I know immediately, like you treat a grape differently and you can figure out how to make something that's different and you can figure out how to improve upon it. And I've already started talking to my dad who is, who is. Big wine fan and knows a lot more about lines, about how in the future I'm going to be improving upon this wine and what I'm going to do for the twenty, twenty two bottling of my stubborn online.
Evan:Yeah, that, that sounds like fun. I, to my knowledge, I've been fortunate to tour a few vineyards. Most wine grapes are fairly thin scanned and also much smaller inside. Yeah,
Alison:let's get me into the size of a golf ball. Maybe some of them are a little smaller, but there do not confuse the two, but there is a difference between making wine out of something. That's the size of a pea. A lot of, a lot of wine grapes really are the size of a large P. Versus something, the size of a golf ball. There's a huge difference. there's a difference in how easy they are to process. There's a difference in whether or not you would look at a grape and go, oh, that's something I even want to bother with. So I don't know what these grapes look like. I have no idea. I've never seen one in person. And I'm really curious, and interested to hear your thoughts on the seven, when you go to. beverage and you you're doing it out of something that you know is going, is usually used for eating. at what point do you go like, this is not suited. I need to figure out new ways of doing it. This is, I'm trying to say something and I'm not really sure what it is. So we're going to have to backtrack on this one.
Evan:Um, no, I, I know what you mean. Um, I frequently have a very high determination to do the thing I've set out to do, whether I have the proper equipment or not.
Alison:I'm sorry. You're talking to somebody who has. Who juiced half a bushel of
Evan:Muscatine's. No, it's exactly. So, um, at what point do I regret it frequently? Very early. At what point do I stop one of Doug?
Alison:Yeah, but you look at this guy who, who says I'm going to take some. I'm going to go through, like, I'm going to discover with my students 160 new varieties of grapes that have never been like properly identified before, and I'm going to pick some out and I'm going to actually make wine with it.
Evan:If I had the land Sedro 160 varieties of grape, I might try that I would not unbiased. Yeah, no, I probably, I mean, I would, I would love to have, honestly, I probably, well, it depends on where I was living. I would be more likely to grow cider pears or app or cider apples than grapes, just because grapes can be high maintenance. So that would love to grow my own fruit to make my own beverages.
Alison:I mean, if I stick around and in North Carolina, long-term I would love to plant my own Muscatine's wild tier. I mean, I don't think they need that much maintenance, which will be awesome.
Evan:No, I, I don't want to, like, I'm in a condo right now. I don't have a place to plant anything in D if we get planter boxes, uh, I don't think grapes are going to be the way to go or the,
Alison:yeah, I have no idea what you'd want to grow there.
Evan:Probably. Um, things are
Alison:good
Evan:in Minnesota.
Alison:Yeah. If you can grow it in Minnesota, you can probably grow out in most places. I mean, yeah, not saying anything about, I don't know, Winnipeg, but it's a pretty good benchmark.
Evan:Yeah. That, that is true. I got plenty cold in Minnesota, but over, but if you're doing stuff that's only a single year planted after the first frost, you've got plenty of time and a lot of sunlight.
Alison:Yeah.
Evan:I would love to try your, scuppered online.
Alison:Yeah. I mean, I'm bringing two bottles, basically what I ended up with, um, I had to add in peptic enzyme to break it down. Yeah. I don't really have the proper equipment to strain this out. Um, but. Definitely learned some interesting things about wine-making. I learned how to, the most interesting thing is that I learned how to cork.
Evan:Yes.
Alison:I bought a Corker and I've been like corked, the stubborn online. It's really a separate Ong slash red Muscatine blend for is a, but I'm calling it separate downline because it's fun to say. but Corbin was really interesting and warm. It's very satisfying to do in a way that closing a closing a swing top bottle is not. but I don't know. It just makes you think about how they manage to do it back then. Way back when, because I mean, they'd fill bottles with wax. They would plug them up, but. People have been stoppering bottles for so very long and finding different ways of doing it and finding different ways of sealing things up to keep them, sanitary and, and without any contamination,
Evan:a lot of them would be wood plugs sealed with beeswax. cork comes on something like 90% of the world's torque comes from Portugal. and it all tree, all trees with bark have cork. It is a layer of the tree, but the Corky treat the cork Oak from Portugal, rose significantly Pfiffer cork layer than anyone than anywhere else. And so they harvest them and they grow nearly wild in the country. Well, they ended up doing is spray painting on the side of the tree, what year this was harvested. And because it takes seven years for the layer for the torch to rebuild.
Alison:That's pretty cool. I didn't get actual cork rather than synthetic cork. so I don't know what the actual process was working. It'd be different. Yeah. I don't know much about it yet, but it's interesting to try and it's, it's also interesting to do all of this bottling and go through everything mean. And think about how, they didn't know about microbes back then they didn't. Yeah, this is long before Louie fester and yet they know, if you bottle up these grapes together, they're going to ferment and. You know, oh, if you're drinking alcohol, then that's better than drinking water because it's not going to make you sick. Even if it'll make you drunk, it's not going to make you sick. And this is, this is how for thousands of years, people hydrated themselves because they didn't always move the water restraint double, or the water wouldn't be contaminated. And when we look at these ancient wine making practices, it's fascinating to think about. Like, even though our scientific knowledge is so drastically different. Now our practices in so many, these are fundamentally the same because they figure it out ways without the scientific knowledge that we have today, how to keep themselves safe and how to do things in a safe manner, in a way in ways that they could perpetuate in ways where we've gotten bottles of drinkable liquid. From thousands of years ago because they knew how to seal things up and they knew how to make something that's drinkable and, and relaxed. And it's, I think it's
Evan:incredible. Exactly. I don't know what they're reminded me. There's some winery or distillery that is doing a shipwreck bottle where they're putting the bottles. What like in the ocean underwater, in, in BA in crates for a year, to try and mimic what the, what a bottle recovered from a shipwreck. Huh, I will see if I can find that link and add it to the show notes, but we'll see.
Alison:Here's the only thing I'd expect it to maybe effect is if, if whatever the seal is very slightly poorest and maybe you can get some extra salt in there. Yeah. But in general, I wouldn't expect the pressure to really affect it. I don't really know if it wouldn't do anything other than block-out. No
Evan:I exactly. But so I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but I love that they're trying it. But one of my favorite facts about cork aside from the fact, it's almost all from Portugal, this is an engineering thing. So both of us will know and we'll see how many of our listeners do cork has a zero croissant ratio. So for anybody, who's not an engineer, a mechanical engineer basically, or material scientist, possums ratio is how much when you stretch the material in one direction, it changes in the other. So when you normally, if you compress the material, it gets thicker in the other direction. But if you take a cylinder like the cork, you, you make it shorter. It gets thicker in the other direction. The cork doesn't change in the other directions as you. As you've compressed or stretch it, which is part of why you're actually able to get it into the bottle. If it had a positive posole ratio, you'd get a exponential increase in force.
Alison:Yeah. And frankly, and again, I feel like I need to, to qualify me saying this and not the first time I felt the need to qualify this. but I have carpal tunnel syndrome. I have a very weak grip. My left hand sets general, very dominant right hand. And my right hand is really screwed up from carpal tunnel. And I did not have like problem court gain. I had a terrible time pressing the grapes. It was hideous and awful, and I am certainly buying. Did you serve for next year? But currently isn't hard. I used a. Portuguese,
Evan:the double port first, the arms are about a foot and you've got some compound levers in there. They're really easy. I do want one of the French or Italian floor corkers at some point, partially because that'll let you do proper champagne bottles,
Alison:but given what I was doing,
Evan:it's actually, that's the sort of thing I will get when I have a basement that I'd fill with. Fill with a wine cellar of my own creation,
Alison:future
Evan:dreams, future dreams, not, not current, plans. Yeah. Even I have no idea where I'll be in the next few months, let alone years.
Alison:Yeah. But it's one of those things where, you know, It reminds you that you really don't mean a ton of special, like you don't really need special equipment to make a lot of the stuff that we talk about at its most basic, somebody went out and find, it found a grave that people have been growing for at least a couple thousand years in the region. They went out, they got the grapes, they crushed them and then. Let it sit for awhile and shoved it in the bottle. You can brew something in a closet, in a jug with a balloon on top of it. I am now that I have a Corker gonna take any old random bottle that I have sanitize it, which people didn't even used to do, you can boil it and I'm going to shove a cork in there and that's all I'm going to do.
Evan:Yeah. So any, any traditional, any bottle with the traditional wine closed, recruited much work. Don't try it with screw top bottles. They are thinner at the top. So they'll break.
Alison:Yeah, I already, my roommate had a screw top bottle and she asked me if I could use it and I pulled out a calendar. Not only is the, is the glass thinner at the top, so you can't screw on it, but all the wall stock is thinner, but also the opening is wider and it narrows. So any cork that you put in there is going to need to be a lot larger than you would use on a standard bottle. Interesting. Yeah, that's just because there is because they have the smaller walls. at the top, I mean the outer diameter must remain consistent or I'm guessing it's pretty close to consistent with the inner diameter loses out. So it gets, it's just bigger.
Evan:Yeah. I'm sure you can find, I've seen various screw top and screwed like, closures. but finding the bottles compatible with them is significantly harder than the standard bottle. And I personally liked a court bottle full court. Doesn't have any quirks, not as in a bottle that has gone bad due to the. Yeah,
Alison:but the point is you don't actually need all, all sorts of fancy equipment. People who've been doing this for so long without any of the equipment that we had, you can smash up grapes, shoved them in a bucket with a cloth on top of it and end up with a decent one.
Evan:Exactly. I mean, the biggest thing you want to do is prevent the flies from getting in flies is number one, mold is number two.
Alison:And, you know, what chances are, it's going to be just fine.
Evan:Exactly. I mean, people have been doing some form of winemaking for what, 10,000 years, at least based on archeology and Georgia, there's a ton of throughout the RTL archeological record up to the, the, Muslim conquests. There's plenty of. Why making an S in Israel, as we've discussed
Alison:yeah, there is. Anyways, the point is don't let the equipment hold you back. Don't let, I don't let anything really hold you back from trying something. Because people have been doing the so long and not screwing it up evil. I think it's like you think about people eating mushrooms. Some of them are delicious and some of them will kill you. Stone cold, dead people have kept eating them for so long. We've been eating mushrooms for a long time. We'll figure out what you can eat and what you can't do. And in general, we've made it this far. So
Evan:though, I will say if you are going to be foraging for foods, including grapes, don't do mushrooms. talk to somebody who knows what they're talking about. Look up the, when it grows in your area, how great the grapes specifically, actually I do know this from going to a. going to space camp actually, huh? grapes, raspberries and grapes. That based on like how they grow in a Bush, like in a group of grapes, and how raspberries and blackberries grow that both of those shapes, there are no known poisons from. fruits, the grown those two shapes. So if you see grapes in the traditional grapevine on a great vine, in terms of traditional grouping, they're safety eats, otherwise know how to forage properly, talk with people who know what they're doing, what grows in your area, learn how to identify things, something I would like to do more of.
Alison:Yeah. speaking of foraging, I was taking a walk, with a friend on Saturday. And, for context today's Monday, I don't really think that matters. It's not really relevant to this story.
Evan:That's why it's relevant for a different reason. But the story
Alison:first, oh, anyways, on Saturday I was walking with a friend in a park and we came across some extremely vividly purple berries, like really, really purple I, not a color that you see often in. and we were wondering what they were, and later on me, Googled them and found out that they were something called a purple beauty Berry. and they're edible and they are fermentable and you can make a jam with them. And we went back to the Bush and tasted them. And they did not actually taste good at all. But the fact of the matter is that we looked them up. I only found out that they were edible. And even though they were like glaring at us, the sort of color that makes you think, oh, this has gotta be toxic. As it turns out they are edible, even if they're not very tasty. And also they are supposed to be a natural mosquito repellent. Yeah. Yeah, look up things before you started your
Evan:mouth. Oh yeah. I know I've mentioned on this podcast before and told my friends that they should be brewing it because they had a tree in their neighbor's yard is falling onto theirs. mulberries are also in that kind of raspberry group in shape are very much edible. Um, uh, I guess, well, various honestly, Uh, you can get them dried, but they're much better fresh. So if you're ever in the, if you're ever in the Midwest to see purple streets on the sidewalk and with a tree above it, reach up.
Alison:Okay. I don't even want to, well, I guess eventually I will be back and forth to Ohio for what not sure when that's going to happen, but in theory, Yeah, that's the downside.
Evan:Yeah. but the reason I said Monday was relevant is because we are in adapt for a lot of Jewish holidays. And that's when really is Kamika.
Alison:You know what, after the craziness, that was September, I will
Evan:it's athlete, but there is a sort of Jewish holiday, at least for these two Jews and at least five, people I can refer to as the frozen chosen. Oh, yeah. Where tomorrow is a recording or day before publishing is the NHL season opener.
Alison:We are very excited.
Evan:Uh, depends. Depends on the better than the wild. I'll tell you that. Even the mild. Yes. But with Caprice off that got some decent chances.
Alison:Yeah. Well the
Evan:first exciting player in a decade. Yeah.
Alison:Auston Matthews, so screwed up risks.
Evan:So he just had wrist surgery as
Alison:well. Yeah. Awesome. Matthew has had wrist surgery over the summer. and as it turns out, he's, he's started practicing, but he's sitting on the first game. Yeah,
Evan:I'm good. Same with said, none of those are the Jewish players. How many I can think of at least I think five Jewish players in the NHL. Wonderful. I may have had history class with
Alison:yeah, you should find that out.
Evan:I, so my notes are in the storage unit, so I don't know, but for some reason I want to say I wrote down the backgrounds of the other people in the class on the first day, because I was bored when we were all introducing ourselves. And so I'm going to try and see if he was in that class.
Alison:Yeah. And then there's a Adam Fox who is a.
Evan:It's not know that there is Luke Colton. Who's originally from St. Louis, Missouri, and is a, what's the university of Wisconsin. So he's a big 10 alumni, much like both of us. And you say Joe with type one diabetes. I forget who he plays first. He was with football for awhile. I mean, they're the Hughes two of the three Hughes brothers.
Alison:Um, wait, did I not tell you how I knew Adam Fox with Jewish? No. His cousin is a friend of mine.
Evan:That's
Alison:great. Yeah. Very nice guy. I mean, the cousin is a very nice,
Evan:that's fun. If you want, if people want to learn more about, Jews in the NHL and in sports, there's a great podcast by the Canadian Jewish news called mench warmers, which is also just a 10 out of 10.
Alison:Oh, it's fantastic.
Evan:Adam,
Alison:my mother told me, that there was a Facebook group called Hebrew shivers, as it turns out there is, they are a milk tea company. I know nothing about what they do. Other than the thing, make notes T shout out to our fellow name or our similarly named cousin. Um, yeah,
Evan:you know, I, I was also hopefully before the net, hopefully I'll be able to make it before the next recording. There is an event. Um, and Utah, I mentioned it is a jews and brews that I hope to be able to make it to.
Alison:I hope so. That would be awesome. You tell me how that is,
Evan:what we did. It depends on some life things that I will find out about whether I'm here to Virgo, but we'll talk about that off the recording.
Alison:Yeah. Also, um, just because I'm very excited about.
Evan:So my current brew is still the sizer, which is hopefully, which is slowly bubbling along. You need to take your gravity reading. My next brew that I'm planning is going to be my Belgium cider. So you can get at least 12 gallons of apple cider for about 12 hours. Reduce it by half and then brewing it with the Belgium LEDs, which, which generates all sorts of lovely flavors. I'm considering this year making a little bit extra and buying a small barrel and making myself some apple cider, some apple cider balsamic style vinegar,
Alison:which sounds incredible.
Evan:I've seen it for sale before, but I've never had.
Alison:Yeah, it would just be a fun, I mean, worst case, it would be a fun experiment, you know, I say, why not? I think I mentioned this last episode, or in a previous episode, but I have a sister who is a vegan. Yeah. Yes. And earlier today I was out purchasing ingredients. Rather than, you know, just her not being able to drink everything, anything that I make, uh, because I've been making a lot of needs or recently, um, I would, I am going to try and brew using some common honey substitutes. So first on my list is maple Sarah. I'm going to making meat. It seems to be called Mapleton. I don't know why it just seems to be called maple one. I'm going to try mixing up maple syrup with some cinnamon and some cranberries and possibly some orange peel. I've seen some mixed things about actually putting orange feel and to, into bruise, which I'm a little confused by and I have to do more. But anyways,
Evan:some of what I've seen is about people, including a lot of piths. So it gets bitter. Some of it is just too much and it becomes acidic or strangles out the yeast limited amounts that would be normal, especially dried orange peel that you can get to the Bruins supply source should be fine.
Alison:Yeah. But also, I was, oh, I was just kind of get orange.
Evan:No it should be, but, it is available at brewing supply stores. If you don't want to have to peel an orange,
Alison:oh, no peeling, an orange one, a horrifically, terrible thing to have to do. I don't think I can manage it. That's my thoughts on the better, I mean, a go ahead. If you'd like, or if you're having trouble finding an organic orange, because you should use organic oranges, if you're ever going to use the zest, because non-organic oranges often, have an added or are picked when they are not orange and they have an add Nevada. So the outside is not actually considered sacred. Side note. what did that is a side note. but anyways, these are kind of oranges if you're going to use yest. so that's my that's what's next. And following that I'm going, I also bought a whole bunch of a God thing. there is a traditional, I believe it was as TAC, beverage, cult pulk P U. P U L Q U E. It is highly likely that I am mispronouncing that, and I believe it's still made in Mexico today. but it is a non distilled fermented beverage may have a cafe. so basically if you didn't process the heck out of it to make tequila what you would get, if you just straight up from it, I gather.
Evan:Well, fermentation has been almost everywhere and distillation has been co-invented multiple places. To my knowledge, there was not distillation in the America in pre-contact America.
Alison:Wait, hold up.
Evan:All right, Rob, was there distillation of pre-concept
Alison:America. Let me pull out the drunken botanist. Let's create the world's great drinks by Amy Stewart. Let me find that because there is a section about
it.
Evan:No, th there's obviously fermentation, but to my eye again, I could be wrong. I'm not the expert. I did not think there was distillation in pre content summit. Across discussing the continents of America. Not
Alison:there you go. Well, the first drink to be made from a Gavi was polka, mildly fermented beverage derived from the SAC or iguana meal. definitely saying it wrong. We know from remnants founded archeological digs that a God, they called Muslims in Mexico was cultivated roasted an 8,000 years ago. This. Surely would've been ramped as well. Um, Murals dating to 200 CE at the pyramid in Cholula, Mexico, depicts people drinking Polk, the Aztec coat and coat debts. Uh, fair hair. Varin Mayer, definitely thing that. One of the few pre-Colombian books, not destroyed that a Spanish portray Maya, who else got us a deal? God, they'd breastfeeding her drunken rabbit children, presumably offering them hope instead of milk. She had 400 children at all. Jeepers. Um,
Evan:certainly that description. Great.
Alison:The rabbit gods of Polk and intoxication. Anyways, let me skip ahead. Ah, here we go. Archeological evidence, including the aforementioned coprolites analysis proves that petite and people living in Mexico prior to the Spanish invasion, enjoy a long tradition of roasting the hearts of the GABA for food, pottery fragments, early tools, paintings, and actual remnants of digested. Agava. I'll confirm this beyond. Well, it's roasted a GABA is a gourmet experience managing a richer meatier version of grilled artichoke cards. It would've made a fun meal by itself. This sounds delicious by the way. And I want to try it.
Evan:It does sound interesting,
Alison:but a high proof spirit can also be made from the roasted hearts. The roasting process breaks down the sugar in a different way, yielding, lovely, caramelized flavors that make for. Smokey liquor, liquor, liquor. When the Spanish Spaniards arrived, they observed school locals tending to a Gavi fields, monitoring plants closely and harvesting them at a precise point in their development right before the bud emerged from the base to form a flowering stock, instead of scraping out the center to force the flow of SAP as was the practice for making pulp. Revealing a dense mass called a Pena, which resembled an apple cart. These were harvested and roasted in brick or stone lined oven set in the ground. So then coverage so that they can smolder for several. Native people had clearly worked out a method for cultivating and roasting. The adapt free Colombian stone pits built for this purpose can still be found in Mexico in the Southwestern United States. Now some archeologists point to remnants of crude stills to suggest that people might not have sentenced simply rose through the Gavi for food. They might have already been working on distillation methods prior to European con. This is a controversial idea. Hotly debated among academics. What we know for certain is that the Spaniards introduced new technology, many of the earliest stills in Mexico, or a derivation of the Filipino, still a wonderfully simple bit of equipment made entirely from local materials, mostly plants themselves. The reasons the spend you would get credit for this is that they are the ones who brought the Filipinos to Mexico court, courtesy of the Manila Acapulco gas.
Evan:So I stand corrected. There seems to be some archeological evidence, to the contrary, by no means did I mean to imply the, pre-contact civilizations were simple. I just had not heard any evidence is just the head specifically developed distillation.
Alison:Yeah. I'm skipping ahead a little bit. Um, there was some discussion about how they made, uh, how they make. Whenever distillations, basically they knew that they had been doing it for a long time. in, in 1621, this was already an old process to them. So this, I recommended this book last or last episode, I would really strongly recommend this,
Evan:wonderful.
Alison:Yeah, it's it really is a wonderful book. yeah, we've got, we've got some really wild information in here. I have not been through any citations here, but oh boy. Yeah, it is well cited. The. Anyways, I would strongly recommend, checking this out is a lot of information, but basically even if they weren't building super complex skills, they were figuring out how to do it. Yeah,
Evan:no, I, I absolutely. And hopefully, well, home distillation in the United States is illegal on the federal level. But his federal civil also can live on a native American territory. You may be able to, to home to, but in general, home, distillation is illegal in the United States. We still hope to soon do a series on distillation so people can learn more and utilize, um, to still never just per purchase distilled beverages for their own enjoyment.
Alison:Yeah. Another thing, and feel free to let us know if you're interested in this. I'm super interested in it. I've never done it before. I have a feeling of, and has, but how to make Le cores would be really interesting topic to talk about. I
Evan:have done that. I have done infused with the QRIS before, with recipes starting courtesy of, one of our mutual favorite, pseudo celebrity chefs. Ultimate.
Alison:Yes, big fan.
Evan:But yet, we, we should do that. I'm hoping for the distillation series, to have on a head distiller, and somebody who runs a distillery, whether they're Jewish or not. we'll see who yet. There's definitely one distillery. I think I can get those Eric Jewish, but I know them well, so we'll be fine. Yeah.
Alison:So I'm excited. So that, hope you want. We have
Evan:one bit of a feedback. We don't have any new podcasts ratings, but write a review us on iTunes and we'll read it out here. but a bit of feedback on the last episode, we mentioned that almost every Jew probably knows mayim mayim. Right. A friend of mine, sorry, Dan, uh, said I don't.
Alison:Should we leave a link?
Evan:Uh, I sent him a link, I believe I sent him a link. So, and it's in the show notes from, two episodes now. So, the hidden secret Jewish history or the secret history of the jab Jewish song, every Japanese person knows, is in the Beltsville show notes.
Alison:Now, catchy it's super catchy.
Evan:It's super catchy, but he did not know it. And I was,
Alison:Yeah. Well, I'm glad you fixed the issue
Evan:on multiple fronts.
Alison:Yes. As always let us know if you've got any, any feedback or any topics that you're really interested in hearing about. I mean, we're just, we're just a couple of friends sitting here chatting. So if you've got anything in particular, you'd like us to chat about. yeah. Yeah.
Evan:iTunes reviews, iTunes reviews will help more people find the podcast.
Alison:Yeah. So that would be great as well. We still don't have a sign off. We still don't have a son enough. That'd be brewing. Happy. Fermenting. Is that what I've been saying? That'd be fermenting.