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SheBrews, HeBrews: A Jewish Fermentation Podcast

Episoide 13: Brining and Thanksgiving

November 24, 2021 Evan Harris Season 1 Episode 13
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Show Notes Transcript

 https://twitter.com/angrysemite/status/1461923655747784706?s=25 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKr1rByVVCI 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAZI5GcPm8c&ab_channel=Jam2go 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigd 

https://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/a-sweet-and-sour-history-of-jews-and-pickles,19579

https://www.ochjs.ac.uk/language-classes/oxford-school-of-rare-jewish-languages/  

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-make-gravlax-cured-salmon 



Find us on Instagram: 

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Our Website:

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Evan:

Welcome to episode 13. of she brews Hebrews is Jewish fermenting podcasts, where we hope to discuss all things. Homebrewing, fermenting. Today, we're talking about brining and Thanksgiving. I'm your host, Evan Harris. And with me today is my co-host Allison Shay.

Alison:

Hey there. How you doing?

Evan:

I'm doing pretty well yourself.

Alison:

Um, good

Evan:

That's good to hear.

Alison:

For reference. Today is Monday, November 20 seconds. we are T-minus three days to Thanksgiving, or I guess at this point, it's more like at two days and 40 minutes. Cause it's 1120 at night. I mean, he just goes,

Evan:

yeah, about 49 hours for you.

Alison:

yup.

Evan:

Did I send you, the meme on Twitter? I found on Twitter about how, Americans are having one Shabbat this Thursday, and they're making a huge deal about it.

Alison:

No, I haven't, but that's great.

Evan:

I'll see if I can find it again and link it in the show notes because that's Thanksgiving, you is a great time, but it is, a little, more common for some of our listeners.

Alison:

We don't get and have a great, I hope everybody has a wonderful Thanksgiving, which is probably something else say again at the end. Uh, but

Evan:

Absolutely.

Alison:

yeah, we are kind of used to the big meal every week thing.

Evan:

Exactly. So a little different for most of the American population. I know I have, at least, I know at least some of our listeners are not actually Jewish, so we may be able to impart some, knowledge on them as well, as well as anyone who's cooking things, their Thanksgiving meal though, at this point you're rushing.

Alison:

Yeah. Uh, we are going to maybe scare you a little bit on this, but if you are prepping your Turkey or if you were in charge of cooking the Turkey and you haven't told any started prepping it, you are behind

Evan:

Yes.

Alison:

sorry, folks, but time to hurry up

Evan:

Yeah.

Alison:

because turkeys are huge in Turkey preparation takes a lot of time. I say this as somebody who has never actually cooked a whole Turkey, I have only ever made the legs and pies because it's not worth it. I okay. This will show up again. Probably I am a Turkey hater. I think that the breast is dry. And not worth eating the legs and visor fine, but usually end up overcooked because people spend too much time focusing on, on the breast of the Turkey. No, I'm going to say guys, just make like some buys. You will be much happier and also they taste much better.

Evan:

So my opinion on making

Alison:

that I'm going to eat it at,

Evan:

I have bought a full Turkey and cooked a full Turkey, just not all at once. My opinion on Turkey

Alison:

which is a much better

Evan:

it should not be cooked as a single piece. If you took Turkey breasts by itself, you'd cut them. You could do it on the bones still, but you cook them separately from the thighs. You can get an incredibly moist, delicious Turkey breasts, especially if you brine it.

Alison:

Yes. Which

Evan:

but if you cook them all together, don't, and also they will all cook faster if you break the Turkey down.

Alison:

yeah.

Evan:

you, get a little bit of that time back that you're so behind on. If you're listening to that,

Alison:

Oh yeah.

Evan:

but today's topic is brining.

Alison:

We did forget something though. I don't know if it's relevant to this episode. It's not relevant for me cause I was the designated driver tonight. But what are you drinking today?

Evan:

I'm not drinking anything right now. Actually I was watching a hockey game and, I had guinness with dinner, but last night I went to a, Jews brews event. I mentioned the first time when we did the brewing last night was a distribution and drinking event, which was fun. So last night I was drinking, a Belgium double that was made with myself and a bunch of other Jews in a Utah.

Alison:

Awesome. Have a good time.

Evan:

it was it was fun. It was fun. I didn't have much last night because I had to drive. but it was fun and got to see a bunch of people who I don't see that often.

Alison:

that's awesome. New France.

Evan:

exactly. And I sent you at least some photos of the, floofs, that the event.

Alison:

Yes, they looked wonderful. 12 out of 10 would pad.

Evan:

They were wonderful and they, the really fluffy cats. Crookshanks it was in my lap at one point.

Alison:

What a perfect baby.

Evan:

She was wonderful.

Alison:

I have not pet a cat since I left Lou.

Evan:

Yeah.

Alison:

Well, they're all excellent. those of you who have pets, please do us a favor, pet them and tell them I love them.

Evan:

Send photos of your pets.

Alison:

Yes. Send photos of your pets also, but also tell them that I love them and give them pens because they're good. And they just aren't pets.

Evan:

Absolutely.

Alison:

Maybe a nice treat.

Evan:

Yeah, but you have a little Turkey as a treat

Alison:

yes. Can have a little salami. Isn't true.

Evan:

the stolen wonderful meme.

Alison:

Oh yes, absolutely. Okay. Back to the topic at hand. So brining two major methods of brining, a Turkey. You have a wet brine, which is basically a liquid marinade, definition of a Brian, by the way, should start with that, the brightness assault solution. a lot of the times when you hear about Brian's, people will include talking about, adding vinegars in, but at their most basic of brine is a salt solution. this, I know the term, dry Brian is used often when cooking meats, but a dry brine is really, it is still a salt solution, but instead of going into an external water source, it's getting dissolved into the moisture of the meat itself. So. Interesting. I it's still a salt solution and it absorbs really well. And it's a good way to really penetrate your meat, like all sorts of flavors, because you're not diluting the salt with anything. It's just the only thing that can, it can dissolve into would be other, I guess, the moisture in the air, if you really want to add that in there. But, mostly it's, it can just dissolve into the moisture of your protein and that's going to make for a good flavor. And also, unlike a marinade you can get, well, I mean, obviously you can do it with a marinade, but it's a lot easier to get crispy skin with a dry brine,

Evan:

Exactly. Having the, because the Brian dries out partially dries out to the skin. If you're doing it as Jen on like a Turkey or chicken or duck,

Alison:

you should, because. fat is flavor and flavor is good.

Evan:

Yeah. There are a few times I will use boneless skinless chicken, but most of the time I bone bone stint on is tons of flavor. But if you're just by the cell by itself, stand on is the way to go.

Alison:

I think only time, the only times I ever really bothered with boneless skinless chicken, were when I made chicken root quad, which is a recipe that, oh, that's a good one,

Evan:

It sounds true. Now my, my normal one is for'em to want to do chicken tikka masala.

Alison:

uh, oh, right. I guess I did put it into crease,

Evan:

yeah. What, like a Curry of boneless skinless doesn't matter as much, but yeah, but Brian, you still should, Brian, if you're coaching it off beforehand,

Alison:

yeah. Um, one other thing, even when I do, When I did make free lads, it's been a long time since then when I did make reliance or chicken cutlets or curries, I only use trying to, if I could get my hands on it, boneless and skinless buys rather than breast, because again, it's just the GC or meat. I don't, I don't, this is going to show up so many times. Is that the same? I do not understand the point of, or I understand the point as part of the animal. Um, but I just feel like you can get so much more enjoyment and flavor out of dark meat than you do out of white. So I'm, I'm a firm advocate.

Evan:

no, I would, I would agree with you for the most part. They're almost any recipe I will tend to be more likely to should in five then, breast. So the dark meats over the light meats, but I do prefer interestingly, duck breasts to most preparations of duck thigh, which is not as common to me, but

Alison:

Okay. I love duck.

Evan:

oh, it is so good.

Alison:

Duck is delicious. It is my dad's favorite food and rightfully so. I think that it just has such a different flavor.

Evan:

Yeah.

Alison:

Um, and like eating a duck, breast cooked and cooked really well. Not, not well as in well cooked, But like, as in

Evan:

done properly.

Alison:

yes, a great preparation, it feels like you're eating a red meat

Evan:

Oh yeah. Cause you, you don't need to put duck or goose as much as you do chicken or

Alison:

I don't like deuce though. I have had

Evan:

I don't remember the last time I had it, so I can't really say much, but one of my favorite meals is like the legs. I prefer cold feet.com feel light,

Alison:

Oh, yeah.

Evan:

Good. I don't need yet. I need to try and find doc to do that with just using Soviet. and that would honestly be a better Thanksgiving meal, the most turkeys

Alison:

Yeah. I mean,

Evan:

most,

Alison:

that most, things would be a better meal than a Turkey, but again, I'm a Turkey hater.

Evan:

you know, like

Alison:

going to be.

Evan:

The time, the best Sergei made was when I did, when I, as I broke it apart, I still drive on dry brined, both parts. I did a Roland for the breasts for one breast. I just surveyed the other and I did a low and slow roast of the legs, or for the fine leg and all every single meal I had from that was delicious. And I did that last year in the midst of the pandemic.

Alison:

Nice. I think so I've only, I've only actually cooked a Turkey, I think twice. but again, not a whole Turkey. but one time, my cousin came over, we really don't usually do Thanksgiving dinner. my parents, we usually go to family, friends, and we do Thanksgiving with them. So shout out to Toby and Nessa for being fantastic. For like a decade and a half, we're not going to be with them this year because of COVID. but we, for very, very long time, we always went to their place, for Thanksgiving. But the one of the two years I can remember doing it, at home, my cousin David was over and he ha he found this recipe that we decided to use. That was absolutely fantastic. just, I can't even remember when this was, it must have been ages ago. It must have been in junior high, maybe high school, so upwards of a decade ago. but we roasted garlic and mashed it up with Rosemary and Sage and some other herbs and lots of salt. And you shoved it underneath the skin.

Evan:

Ooh,

Alison:

Um, and

Evan:

which is tendon. It is technically brining to do that. If you let it sit.

Alison:

We let it sit and because we put it underneath and because it was dry, we ended up with really nice crispy skin on there. and man, that was, that was just great.

Evan:

That sounds really good. no, I, I have not done after Thanksgiving. I might buy a Turkey to try to break it apart and try some random stuff just for fun. Yeah.

Alison:

Spatchcock, spatchcock. You can find like an oven Or a smoker.

Evan:

Or if I'd find a smoker, actually the friend who I'm, the friend who had the Ubers event with, the cat, has the smoker cause she and her boyfriend, go trout fishing in the summers

Alison:

okay.

Evan:

trout.

Alison:

Okay. Can you do me a favor?

Evan:

I will text her and see if gets smoked the whole Turkey spat stop

Alison:

Okay. If they are people who go fishing for trout and smoke them their selves, I feel like they would appreciate the silliness of just spatchcocking an entire Turkey. Okay. For Spanish talking is a pro. Oh, there is. There is actually spatchcocking in her gate. It appears to be a real thing, basically. No, I barbecue guys. USA premium kind of toll how dispatch Kochot Turkey food network.com. Okay. So

Evan:

might need a, you might need a table saw spine outs.

Alison:

oh yeah. So for reference spatchcocking is where you take the spine out of the bone. So the center of the top pull out that bone, normally it's done on the chicken and then you smash it flat up, not literally smash it flat, but you spread it out into, like a butterfly,

Evan:

Yeah.

Alison:

which is a term you will often hear like a butterfly chicken. but you spread it out flat. And then with spatchcocking, I think you usually press it. Is that right?

Evan:

No, you don't know, you don't always put it under active weight, but you can especially chicken and it helps get the, just the breast and thighs stripped at different rates. It helps ma even the amount,

Alison:

I feel like it's worth reminding people that I don't really eat meat.

Evan:

you know, I've, no, a special, if that's when I doodle basket Turkey, the first thing is spatchcocked Turkey brine is the recommended auto, correct? Due to recent activity.

Alison:

Yeah. Or Google searches must be real weird sometimes.

Evan:

This, we should have all the ancient Romans. The Jews did not have turkeys because they are a, they are a new world food.

Alison:

Also worth noting that the cosh root status of turkeys is an interesting one as is the classroom status of many birds, in the new world. So

Evan:

If I recall like birds or one of the lease well-defined areas of cost shirt, like everything else, there's pretty strict rules. Choose cloven, hooves, choose its Cod for mammals, et cetera.

Alison:

yeah. So there's a lot of, basically there's a list of birds that are not kosher pretty much, and it's pretty much all old row. And we don't really have a great way of defining what they are and aren't, but people usually say, okay, if it's a bird of prey, then like a tree bird of prey, then you don't want to eat it. so come to the new world and there's all sorts of birds that are not on the previously listed, known non-kosher birds. that's right. I feel like I'm getting somewhere.

Evan:

No, it, it, I don't think there are any kosher, birds of prey, not nothing. in the Falcons.

Alison:

Yeah. So basically there is a list of birds that are not Keisha here's, here's a better descriptor. the mission states, every bird. At one, Doris a predator is not kosher. Every bird that has two, an extra toe, three Zephyr, crop in blue vs. I don't know what that means. and a four and four, a core Cougar, gizzard, or puppet in Yiddish that can be field is cruiser. Um, I do not know enough about the biology of birds and this is something that many rabbis have argued over many, many times. but the crux of the matter is people come to the new world. They see all these new birds that they are unfamiliar with and they go, it's not a bird of prey. And I guess, whatever the other stuff is, we're okay with what it is. So we're going to eat it. So turkeys are kosher because they pretty much decided that it made sense for it to be kosher, even though nobody heard of it. Okay. No, there is no like good precedent. They basically were just like the Turkey's gonna catch it.

Evan:

Yeah,

Alison:

And this is not the only, new world's bird that has a really questionable concert status. Um, as I may or may not have mentioned previously, I used to live in Florida. I used to live in south Florida to be specific, and there are a lot of these ducks called Muskogee ducks. And if you ever want to go down a rabbit hole, you can look up the Tuscher of a Muskogee duck because to this day, people do not agree on the cashier, SCOBY duck. And frankly, I think most people just don't bother eating them, but.

Evan:

I don't believe it is a common breed of duck that is consumed, but

Alison:

There's no reason why you couldn't,

Evan:

yeah, no, I did. There's no reason why you couldn't.

Alison:

have to catch one so that you can shaft it,

Evan:

Yeah. That's the problem, which is you're you're not supposed to hunt them. You're supposed to, except obviously if you need the food to survive, that's a different issue, but

Alison:

but there's no problem with like trapping, as long as you don't harm the bird. If you, if you humanely trap the bird and then you got a bird there and then you can shut it and there's no problem. There's no actual problem with, with doing that with a wild bird. It's just, um, okay. In the button,

Evan:

Yeah, no, it's not the easiest though. Not turn us for a moment. I was, I was going to say where you just start talking about flamingos and I was like, wait, no, flamingos are an Africa too. And so I just looked was like, no, there are flamingos in Israel,

Alison:

are they native there?

Evan:

the native range. It stands through eat from South Africa alone, not as much the east coast, the west coast of Africa, except kind of, from the middle Africa through to, there's a gap kind of along a Southern Morocco, but it then Spain, Mediterranean, France, parts of Italy, including Venice, Turkey, Cyprus, Israel. And then the range keeps going back down along the Africans, basically the entirety of Africa's east coast. So yes, the, the native range of flamingos includes Israel.

Alison:

Huh? Well, if

Evan:

That's not a Thanksgiving bird though. I don't know if anyone's ever, if they are kosher or not though.

Alison:

yeah,

Evan:

I know that each shrimp, they get their color from eating shrimp.

Alison:

Is It Trump or is it krill? I thought it was credible.

Evan:

It might be Krell

Alison:

I dunno.

Evan:

You know, birds better than I.

Alison:

I am still pretty novice at this. Also, if you really want to watch an interesting something interesting about birds of the new world. I sent this to Evan before and we will include it in the show notes. There is an excellent 20 minute video. I. thought it was very funny and there is an excellent video called, it's about state birds.

Evan:

Oh, yes. I remember that one. That one's good because so many state sheriffs state birds.

Alison:

Okay. The title of the video is the state birds. are garbage by jam to go. It is excellent. I would strongly recommend it and I would absolutely recommend that. you. Watch it and then get angry about state birds, and also learn a little bit more about the history of flamingos in south Florida, because frankly for a long time, people did not think That they were native flamingos in south Florida. And as it turns out, courtesy of a Flamingo running around on I, if I recall correctly, a military airstrip, it turns out there are in fact flamingos in Florida that are native.

Evan:

That is wonderful.

Alison:

So would strongly recommend you check that out. And now we should,

Evan:

Let's say you've got

Alison:

probably remember that we were going to talk about brightening.

Evan:

mostly standards are probably staying in today.

Alison:

Yeah.

Evan:

ones are 30 day relevant sort of

Alison:

Yes. Hey, we got cash right in there.

Evan:

we got task shirt.

Alison:

Oh, we got some real, we got some real Jewish content here. We have to pickles. Oh, did we have something before pickles?

Evan:

Not really the next thing with, so aside from dry brining, wet brining is basically salt marinade. Sometimes they have sugars, almost all brining to include, except for very basic steaks and such and flu to other flavors. It's a great way to get flavor into whatever you're cooking. Are there even cheeses that are brined like Hulu, me and Farrah.

Alison:

Delicious, delicious cheeses.

Evan:

Exactly. But one of the big

Alison:

I don't want to set a full disclosure. Fidel is one of my least favorite Jesus.

Evan:

food ingredients by itself, it's not great,

Alison:

Exactly.

Evan:

but I used it the other day as in, to took more solid because I couldn't find a veneer,

Alison:

you can make veneer pretty easily

Evan:

yeah, I didn't have any Melville.

Alison:

when you should fix that.

Evan:

Yeah. I bought some in to making yoga with it right now.

Alison:

This is such a classic thing. Just every part of that. Anyways, we're so good at this, pickles. Uh, yes.

Evan:

The type of wet brining.

Alison:

Yes. and also there's a lot of Jewish history, pickles. there are thoughts that when the Jews leaving Egypt, they were talking about remembering pickles because they do talk about cucumbers. Um, specifically, hang on. Is that a quote here from Uh, we remember the fish, which we were wanted to eat in Egypt for not the cucumbers and the melons and the leeks and the onions and the garlic. So cucumbers, onions, garlic, these are things that you would make pickles with. And also there is archeological evidence that ancient cucumbers were treated in a way that the Egyptians, fermented their cucumbers in order to, make them a lot more edible because ancient cucumbers were super bitter. but it it's just the varieties that they had there back then. so they would pickle them. Um oh, they'd end up with these like slightly alcoholic, bitter salty, cucumbers. So that was kind of a very classic ancient it's in food. And it's something that really stuck in the minds of. Of the Israelites in Egypt, when they're stuck in the desert and they're just remembering all these foods, they remember those, those two comers that we would really refer to you as pickles today. So,

Evan:

yeah, so the, the, the two number is thought to have originated in India, but there was an ancient times, plenty of trade A lot of people don't realize that there was plenty of trade between Egypt and Israel and the Lavant region with India using the monsoon winds, going back and forth. That is part of how the Jewish community in Yemen was established because it was along the trade routes, as well as the first communities in India, which as Hanukkah is coming up, the, some of the first Jewish communities in India, which still exist, do not celebrate Konica because they left before the Maccabean.

Alison:

huh? Did not know about that, but totally makes sense.

Evan:

Exactly. but so bet, but so, oh, ancient Tradewinds ancient trade isn't is really interesting. If one of the biggest items that was traded was ancient pepper with black pepper was one of, was a huge commodity for the Rome in, by classical Roman time. So only 2000 years do not close sort of 4,000 with the, the timeline of the Exodus from Egypt. But, at that point pepper, the Romans and that's part of why the Romans really wanted to control Israel is because pepper flowed through there.

Alison:

Oh, I feel like, something we should mention real quick, but, we haven't previously, we did not mention the Jewish holiday, specifically the Ethiopian Jewish holiday

Evan:

I forgot about that.

Alison:

sigged. So. Sigma occurred. 1919 days ago from today. it traditionally is 50 days after the key port. and it recently became, a national Israeli holiday. but it's a holiday. That's not really familiar to a lot of, American Jews or generally Jews outside of, the Ethiopian Jewish community. It is according to the beta Israel and Jewish tradition. the date on which God first revealed himself to Moses. So, it celebrates, accepting the Torah.

Evan:

And it's something we forgot to mention last time. but it's something that I'm not incredibly familiar with and the, the beta Israel, as well as the community of Jews that was established through these ancient traders.

Alison:

This is what I was looking for. SIG was first recognized by Israel as a national holiday in 2000. So, it's not super widely celebrated by non Ethiopian Jews that I know of outside of, outside of Israel, but, it's I did once attend a SIG celebration and it was a really lovely one. And it's an aspect of Jewish history that, many people are not familiar with. That's maybe read upon, read about it more Yeah. Anyways, Moving on

Evan:

yeah. Moving

Alison:

American holiday, we had to mention it. I feel bad that we didn't, I feel very normative that I didn't think to mention it two weeks ago in our last podcast, or four weeks ago in the previous podcast. And, Yeah. it's something that we, as people who are trying to be more aware of, of the world around us and as, Members of a global community and the greater Jewish Mimi, you want to be more aware

Evan:

Absolutely.

Alison:

as far as who we are, where we are.

Evan:

And that the majority of American Jews. the plurality of worldwide Jews Arash are of primarily astronauts the descent. so, and if we are both astronaut Izzy, so it's what we're most familiar with, but there are multiple, multiple, Jewish communities throughout the, throughout the world. And because of the various historical parts of the diaspora, which we will, I'm sure get into more details about each one at various different times.

Alison:

Yeah, so,

Evan:

for the next one, in one of these articles, they used the next thing in one of these articles that is linked is preserving food in the shtetl is that as if that's not Ashkenazi,

Alison:

oh yeah. Oh man. Hold on. I still got, if there's more about pickles, we got more

Evan:

is, yes, it has picked the window, but yes,

Alison:

Yeah. Okay.

Evan:

I'm piddling in the Telemundo period.

Alison:

Yes. great quote from the Talmud about pickling. Talmud says, ah, salting is like hearing and marinating is like cooking. This is from us at Helene. maybe 70. I don't know if you're really going to fact check me on that one, but, this is, is a cash route, statement and they go on to talk about how pickling food counts as method of cooking. So in the same way that you can't cook meat and dairy together, you also can't pickle them together. So you can't say, make a FedEx in the same, jar that you're pickling. I don't know. According to these.

Evan:

Corned beef is piddling.

Alison:

Yeah. So you can't do that in the same guy again, to do that separately. Cause those still count as cooking. but on the other hand, you were also allowed to salt your food on Shabbat, which, okay.

Evan:

Yeah.

Alison:

I'm just like I don't. Okay.

Evan:

I mean, effectively what the argument seems to be is that the amount of salt you're adding and the time that you would be adding four is not long enough to substantially change the item as if you were putting as if you were Brian and yet, um,

Alison:

So I mean,

Evan:

which actually makes me wonder what are those requirements? Cause to be a time, to a time, amount.

Alison:

Yeah, And I think. They would have, they would probably have come up with a semi arbitrary answer. But I think the fact of the matter is they really didn't have, the culinary, food safety knowledge or whatever it is to be able to say, okay, this is when I'm pickling alone, make something, see for consumption without having heat.

Evan:

Yeah, they would not have known that in a lot of pickles would have done, would have been done with a hot brine.

Alison:

Yeah, So I, I think that's, I feel like there are definitely rabbis today who would have commentary on that. if we asked clash experts or pickling experts, I'm sure they'd have a lot of opinions about that one. Unfortunately. just have no idea and I don't think they did it.

Evan:

now. Um,

Alison:

so there are some fun facts about pickles that they are super old and Jews have been doing them for so long. Then the Jews escaping Egypt, Mr. Dang pickles.

Evan:

that is correct. Though, as we've mentioned before, in something that is a little more extra messy, centered in the shtetl, so and well, a lot of the world, but the shuttles especially were very poor. So preserving any food you could, you wanted to get every calorie out of what.

Alison:

Oh, absolutely.

Evan:

piddling was a great way to do that, for preserve for pittling your S your summer vegetables in the midst of harvest season to have food all year round.

Alison:

Yeah, And then just something to think about in terms of. Is, I mean, I don't know much about the weather back then, but one of the things that's really nice about pickling is that if you've got high enough sole concentration, um, it could be really warm or it could be really cold. And you're probably going to be okay in a way that you might have a lot of trouble with, if you're say, uh, drying the,

Evan:

Yeah, that's correct. If you're drying them, you actually want it to be relatively cold. You want it because that will create a low, you want a lot of cold air generate a,

Alison:

but you want cold, dry air

Evan:

yeah. You want a cold dryer?

Alison:

guarantee that you might have a cold and damp climate.

Evan:

Correct,

Alison:

I

Evan:

I'm not sure. I think a lot of Russia is involved. Not a lot of the pale of settlement. I should say. I believe is a colder, wet or climate.

Alison:

yeah. Which, which would not be a great environment for dragging me. You might like the jerky, but I drink, you got to get moldy.

Evan:

exactly. the one, not though. Another thing is dry. You don't really see fish jerky, but you do see a lot of pickled fish and Brian fish

Alison:

you don't see, I actually have

Evan:

as much. I've seen it, but it's not as calm nowhere near as common.

Alison:

You can dry that you can dry fish. And I have seen in the supermarket fish jerky, usually Atlantic Cod or something. you see it, you see it in dog treats, which I guess we all, I do totally eat at a bowl for human. I, if I recall correctly, I need to find a proper source on this, but I believe, a lot of the native Alaskan groups would dry fish and chew on it. I think it actually, might've been a whale.

Evan:

I was gonna say, I thought, I think it was sealer whale.

Alison:

I think it's similar. Well, yeah, nevermind. Those aren't fish.

Evan:

I have had fish jerky and it is tasty, but it is less common. Whereas Brian and pickled fish is a very common, very stereotypically Ashkenazi is, pickled herring. I

Alison:

Okay. I know I

Evan:

You don't like

Alison:

hater, but I haven't. I stopped eating fish when I was seven. So like anything I say about. Not having a lot of experience with turkeys and also not liking turkeys. it's a lot worse for fish? full disclosure. I do not know much about fish. I know that I, I mean, I know about like fishes, but As a food,

Evan:

As a food.

Alison:

cooked salmon a few times. didn't eat it, made it for other people. So

Evan:

I mean, I enjoy fish, but so pickled herring is actually primarily from the Netherlands, the Dutch, but just hair herring grows in the cold water, cold waters of the north Atlantic. And while there's some access to that and in the pale of settlement, because I don't want to talk about the Russian empire and Poland, Lithuanian, Commonwealth, to describe various points in times, the accurate things, the pale of settlement for this for right now is standing in for

Alison:

it's, I think also the most active. Term, when we talk about like, I would, I may have occasionally mentioned this, but I would describe myself as, most of, mostly Lithuanian Jews, but that's not really the most accurate term because I just kind of got pushed around in the area. We were not tied to the Lithuanians in any way, shape or form. It was kind of, where our ancestors ended up before they ended up coming to America.

Evan:

Yeah. So a lot, a lot of my family also came from Lithuania and most astronauts, the Jews will have at least some connection to Poland and or Lithuania because of AF after the Rhineland massacres in the 12 and 13 hundreds Jews got pushed to the east, into the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was the first place where they had relative freedom since the Roman conquest. It had been a long time, and the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth was then taken over was then conquered by the holy Roman empire pressure and the. And the Russian empire and broken apart at various levels due to both infighting and invasions from outside. And then those shoes got pushed around within the Russian empire and Germany, in the various German states, I should say. and so that's why, and that's also why Yiddish became a separate language, as opposed to just writing German with Hebrew letters is because it was, it became its own language when Jews were forced out of Germany and, and into places that didn't speak German.

Alison:

Also worth knowing, um, Yiddish is not a monolith. I know it's often mentioned that way and it was very much a shared language throughout the whole area. but there are some different, there are a bunch of different dialects, but. interesting to hear about

Evan:

Absolutely. And it, nor is it the only Jewish year European Jewish language, which all all have Hebrew derivatives as well. but Ladino is the other bit is the other major.

Alison:

Well, Dino Judeo, Arabic.

Evan:

that wouldn't be European, but yes,

Alison:

no, not your nine European, but there's the point is

Evan:

sporadic languages.

Alison:

yeah, there's a lot of, what'd you do Arabic was spoken, in Egypt, for example. there are a lot of other smaller Jewish languages, many of which were killed off, not completely, but you know, mostly destroyed by the Holocaust or, or in the, many massacres that followed the Holocaust, in areas in the middle east. So. There are a couple of Jewish language institutes that have popped up. I, I feel like I sent this to you, Evan, not that long ago. there were a bunch of, there were like eight different, non Yiddish, Jewish languages. being taught by some university.

Evan:

I don't remember seeing that, but I'm very interested. I'd love to see that. but when I, at Roshashana, the shool I went to for four of that, my dad grew up going to, has, at least for the last few years, it's been the same guy who sings and Haino in Ladino and he's beautiful voice as well. And if I can find a clip of it, I will link it in the show notes and I'll send it to you

Alison:

Also given that it is timely Conifex is about to start. actually by the time we do our next episode,

Evan:

Chronicle. We'll be doing.

Alison:

Hanukkah we'll have come and gone. but there is a lovely, living Hanukkah song called OTO, Lita us, that is on my playlist and would recommend it. It's it's very nice.

Evan:

And I guess before I forget anyone who doesn't know Ladino is Judeo Iberian. So it's mostly Judea Spanish, but it is technically, I believe a mixed between

Alison:

my understanding is that there are also variations of Ladino spoken Italy because a lot of people who's sled during the inquisition campaign.

Evan:

yeah, so a lot went to LA a lot, went back to the middle east, which is why this is far dear frequently considered part of as far as in the middle east, though, a lot also went to the Netherlands and the oldest Jewish communities in England are also from, are also Sephardi. One's not.

Alison:

Oh, here we go. Ha ha. I found it ham. I posted an article about it.

Evan:

Awesome.

Alison:

Okay. I will posting link to it. It was Oxford. The Oxford school of rare Jewish languages in the UK has launched its inaugural semester of courses in 12 Jewish languages, belonging to the Aramaic, Arabic and Turkic language. Fabulous. the list of languages. Baghdadi, Judeo Arabic classic, Judith classical engineer, Arabic, Judeo, French Judeo, Greek, Judeo, Italian Judaism, Neil Aramaic, Judeo Persian. You do tats, um, new day Turkish Kariah Ladino and Yiddish. So if you're interested, yeah. If you're interested in any of them, know that Oxford is offering classes, application for classes beginning in mindfulness term or not are now closed, but you can apply for classes beginning in Hilary and Trinity terms. 2022. I have no idea what that means.

Evan:

middlemiss I think in a Neil diamond book, I want to say it's in good omens,

Alison:

here we go. The application deadline. application deadline. for classes beginning in Hilary term, 2022 is Monday 3rd of January, 2022. for Trinity term Monday, the 11th of April. So

Evan:

So if you know anyone at Oxford,

Alison:

I would not be surprised if he can access these on

Evan:

if you can ask them online, I would be curious just to audit them.

Alison:

Yeah, this was awesome.

Evan:

That sounds really neat.

Alison:

yeah.

Evan:

So do you know

Alison:

else would.

Evan:

locks, um, the full name for locks is basically just you take salmon, you put salts, normally salt and sugar and spices in it, and you press it to get as much moisture out. And that's it. It's really easy. I'll link. I will link it to the recipe in the show notes for anyone who does want to make it.

Alison:

I have another brining recipe that I have done a couple of times and enjoyed a lot, and would strongly recommend, especially we, I am a Jew, as you may have figured out by now I'm Jewish. I do not do great with lactose, many other Jews do great with lactose, something that imparts like a fun kind of cheesy kind of funky flavor that you can add to your food. If you're averse to say a Parmesan which actually had left those. many people are averse to GS for whatever reason. but I have, I have salt cured, egg yolks before

Evan:

I still didn't make that. You've told me so many times they sound so good.

Alison:

they're delicious. So what I did was, I took six egg notes. I believe I did a cup of salt and a cup of sugar.

Evan:

Yeah. One-to-one ratios in that sort of Brian and that sort of grind. A very common

Alison:

Um, and then on top of that, I had, like a tablespoon or two of rainbow peppercorns. That's black, white, and pink, pink ones, not actually being peppercorns that's side note and they have a lovely flavor. So I did that and I had a bunch of cardamom pods, and I had a bunch of herbs to profile. And I stuck them in my spice grinder. I actually might not have been a spice grinder. I might've made it the food processor, but anyways,

Evan:

Your ground. Them.

Alison:

grounding Them. all up as best as I could, stuck some whole egg yolks in there and covered them up and let them cure. And you end up, I ended up putting them in the, in the dehydrator for a little bit because they were taking, they just, but you end up with like these little nuggets, these little yellow nuggets, and they are packed with flavor, like really packed with flavor and because they've been salted, the salt and sugar mixture ends up. Kind of being like wet sand, which makes sense because all of the moisture has been absorbed into the, into the salt and sugar mixture and lots of salt and sugar has been absorbed into and into the yolks. So you end up with the flavor from the salt and the sugar, um, and the floor illness of the herbs and, and a little bit of spice. Uh, you end up with this really flavorful little nugget and you grade it on there. And what you also get is a lot of underlying flavor from an egg yolk. And if you've ever broke, if you've ever broken a yolk over, over toast or whatever, you know, the egg yolks have kind of this natural umami funkiness, that's just so delicious.

Evan:

I just thought of something that'd be really good. Have you ever a duck eggs?

Alison:

I don't think so. I've had Quail eggs.

Evan:

eggs are nice, but they're a pain to break cause there's a tiny duct.

Alison:

you can get them at Costco.

Evan:

That is true.

Alison:

That's the advantage.

Evan:

And they'll end most Asian grocery stores that I've been to as well. Um, that's where I bought my naturally. but the duck eggs I bought at the farmer's market years ago and they're a little bigger than chicken and. But they are so savory and so much more flavorful. So I'm now imagining doing this, the cured, yolk it's up with doc.

Alison:

Uh, that sounds awesome.

Evan:

That's what I'm imagining right now. It sounds

Alison:

That would be so cool. I think that came, oh, Google foods. There is a YouTube channel called Google foods, and people, this guy, dry age, all sorts of weird stuff and has a great time doing it. So if you're interested in dry aging, would recommend you check out his channel on YouTube. Google, do you do a. But people were suggesting in his comments, his recent video, he, he drayage kept her going the wasabi, wasabi, not the fake stuff. and apparently it was fantastic and not spicy at all. but people in the comments were suggesting that he'd do an experiment where he, where he, salt curious, all different sorts of eggs. Cause he's made, he's made different experiments with different types of legs before, but that sounds like would be so cool. So If you try that event, you should definitely tell me how that

Evan:

If I can get my hands on some duck eggs I'm doing that I'd won. I once made a duck egg out. Like I went the first time I bought decayed. So I was like, oh, this'll be fun. I'm sure it'll taste a little different. I made a decayed omelet for breakfast is the best online ever had. So may indicate an omelet for lunch and it's updated Alma for dinner and I was out of eggs.

Alison:

Nice.

Evan:

It was just so good.

Alison:

You know, had you asked me when I still lived in Florida, there was a place that there was like this farmer's market that I used to go to. And every once in a while I would see these bright blue eggs. I, he guesses what it was

Evan:

ah, I don't know,

Alison:

big and it's like, that's good.

Evan:

it's too small for an ostrich. Isn't it? Email? Was it ostrich? Astrocytes they're bigger and they're not blue. Aren't

Alison:

Massive. I have no idea what it was. It was. giant. And it was steel.

Evan:

I don't

Alison:

I can't tell you what it was.

Evan:

I don't know. No one else want to grow with Sabi.

Alison:

Yeah. Well, I will see if I can find a picture of it. I have no idea what those things. I'm trying to find a mixture. Cause I really, I would just see them. I'd see like a, a stack of them. Oh my God. They're huge. I'm trying to figure it out when I am Googling. Cause I never found it. I don't remember what they were. What's the name of the engine violations get, because they don't remember what the bird was.

Evan:

We

Alison:

were cubes, they were like five inches tall.

Evan:

look. Okay.

Alison:

I found

Evan:

Yes. What is it? Yeah, it was a fun.

Alison:

I'm sure you have a picture of this thing.

Evan:

So there's

Alison:

Oh, okay. So hello folks. Since we've gone on many tangents, we may as well stop here. this one was a mess. Hope you enjoy it. We did get a suggestion for a sign off from one of our, okay. It was my sister, one of my lovely listeners, my sister. but anyways, she suggested she bird he bird. And now it's time for you to grow. Yeah. So. Yeah.

Evan:

Yeah.