Ep. #6: Procrastination

In this episode, I talk about procrastination as a thought and emotion management issue, rather than a time management issue. 

I explore why people procrastinate and all the various reasons. 

I also provide tips that will help the different types of procrastinators, including writing down our thoughts and feelings, understanding which thoughts are causing us to procrastinate, and using our personal mission statement and future selves to help us complete tasks. 

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

procrastinate, procrastinators, feeling, thought, task, procrastination, brain, write, people, discomfort, future, coaching, avoid, life, edits, envision, mind, world, feelings, podcast

SPEAKERS

Janny Chang

Janny Chang  00:10

Welcome to unleash your inner power with Dr. Janny Chang, the podcast that helps women from all walks of life use thoughtworks research and storytelling to help rewire your brain and kick ass in your personal and professional life.

00:26

Hello, my queens and my friends, how are you I have missed you. I am so glad to be back, I took some time off and had a little bit of a staycation with my kids, my husband. And it's just so fantastic that I feel rejuvenated. And yet, I'm so glad to be back and back in the swing of things and back at work. And so I hope whoever you are, and wherever you are, that you are able to carve some space and some time for yourself. And whether that's a day or a week or a month, it is so important to put yourself first. And to have that time just to relax and to be refreshed and to rejuvenate and to replenish yourself, our souls and our spirit need that. So please do take some time out for yourself. I feel so amazing just after that week. But it's really great to be back and get back into the swing of things. And of course, it's also great for my kids to get back in daycare. And, and just to get back into work, and just yeah, it feels good, you know. So I am so happy to be here with you all today. There's something I've been wanting to talk about for a while I was just talking to my husband the other day, but I've been wanting to do a podcast on procrastination. And so that's what I'm going to talk about today. Okay, so if there is a topic that's extremely popular in the Self Help section, procrastination is one of them. There are countless books and podcasts on this topic. And what's interesting to me is that only in the recent several years have people started talking about the emotions that are underneath procrastination habits. It's often been discussed pragmatically as a time management issue, or even as something that's defective or lazy. I personally think that there's just so much shame surrounding this label of being a procrastinator. And I want us to look at procrastination differently. You know, remove the shame. But let me tell you that about 20 years ago, when I started reading Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, you may know that book. You know, that's kind of when you started seeing discussions about managing your mind and emotions when it comes to procrastination. Now that book was written in 1989. And it's just one of my all time favorite books that really discusses the foundations of thought work, how to manage your mind and emotions and how to see other perspectives how to have empathy. And I think that's what's at the core of true change, and at the core of my coaching, which is to help you unleash your inner power.

03:16

Alright, so why do people procrastinate? There are several types of procrastinators. Some are perfectionists and procrastinate because they want something to be perfect before they start something I previously mentioned in another podcast, that Brooke Castillo with the Life Coach School where I'm getting certified as a life coach says that perfectionism is for scared people. So at the root of perfectionism is fear and fear that's not really processed and work through so that instead of feeling and working through the fear, you do something to distract yourself from feeling it. You might binge on Netflix, you might watch YouTube or play video games. Sometimes it can even be productive, like some people will procrastinate by doing another project or doing chores around the house. Just being really productive. Anything to avoid feeling and sitting with the discomfort that comes from doing the tasks that they deep down really want to be doing. Right. It's like imagine I imagine a giant obstacle course and American Ninja Warrior or out of a Dr. Seuss book right? Where you have to cross some obstacles before reaching the destination you want. procrastinators we have a lot of mental drama just looking at the challenges and that'll be enough to delay the whole process for them. For perfectionist becomes about doing it right and perfect. not want to get started until everything is like in this perfect condition. Whether you're perfectionist or not. It comes down to not wanting to feel the negative feeling that comes with doing that task. And this just perpetual It's a cycle, right? Because of procrastinators, I know, they avoid this negative feeling. But then they actually encounter more negative feelings such as guilt and shame when the deadline starts approaching, and they find themselves panicking about procrastinating, so I've talked to friends who procrastinate and then beat themselves up for procrastinating. Right? So like, they're like, why am I doing this? I should have known better. I suck. That's what I hear sometimes. And I've also like, I've been there as well. We're all human. And I think we all procrastinate in some ways. I when I do I also have beating myself up when I procrastinated, like, why are you doing this? You know, better? Janny? Right. So look, we're all human, everyone procrastinates to some extent, you know, like, for me, an example I can give you is that, when I used to work for an NGO, I used to dread those monthly reports that I'd have to submit to foundations for grants, because they're just like, in my mind, they're very tedious, and mundane. And if you work in the nonprofit, or global development industries, then you know what I'm talking about. It's like all these like measurements and analytics, and, but you know, just like crunching numbers, and like having to dig for data. And so I felt at the time, that was very tedious the process, and it was not my favorite thing to do. And I would often procrastinate on it and submit my data, like late into the night, like I'm talking about, like past midnight, you know, because I just I didn't enjoy the process. And the interesting thing that I noticed about my brain is that I spent all this mental energy anticipating how horrible the process would be, that it wasn't the actual process that was so bad. But it was like my brain who might call Phyllis, phyllis schlafly was going through all this mental drama about it, you know, grown, or my brain would tell me, it's that time of the month again. And then I would resist it. Like I would productively do other reports, I would write up memos instead of doing this work that are supposed to do, and what would have taken me a few hours, maybe even less ended up dragging for days. And most of the time was engaging my mind about how much I didn't want to do this report and how much I dreaded it. I also noticed that my brain likes to use perfectionism as an excuse not to have to do the work. So even though I didn't really care about choosing a perfect report, my brain would focus on how I'd have to make their perfect, so that it became a crutch for me not to get started. I knew that deep down, I didn't really care about perfectionism in this particular case. But as long as my brain was occupied with the details of making it perfect, it would be so consumed that I would even get started. And then I wouldn't have to experience the negative emotions that came with doing the work. brains are tricky, or they are extremely tricky. So it totally helps to be mindful and catch our brains. When it's sneaky like that. Right. Now, here's what I found to be helpful. I don't think it's a time management problem.

08:17

Procrastination is not time management, I think it's an emotion and thought management problem, remember, and thought work, which is the foundation of the coaching I do, which is what I've been taught at the Life Coach School. And it's actually the reason I went into coaching because I got into thought work, and it just totally transformed my life. So in thought work, it's our thoughts that drive our feelings, which fuel our actions that create the result of procrastinating or not getting it done. The circumstance itself, which is the thing that you want to do is totally neutral. What that means is it can be objective, it's it's proven in the court of law. And I think a really good Litmus litmus test for whether it's neutral not is you can assign the same task to three different people. And they would all have different thoughts and feelings about it. And therefore different results. Right, not all of them will procrastinate. Not all of them would view the task as dreadful as I did write that some might just like, go and do it and not even think twice about it. Some might even really enjoy the process of producing a donor report. Right? So that's how the circumstances neutral because each person would have different thoughts and feelings about it. Now, I think what's interesting about procrastinating is that most of us don't procrastinate in all areas, right? Like I procrastinated in putting that donor report out, but I did not procrastinate in all other areas of my work. I mean, I still created newsletters. I still talk to donors. I still will grants a lot of grants. I did all Those things way before the deadlines. Now, if you think about your own life, what do you procrastinate on? And what do you not procrastinate on? So think about it, right? Think about what you procrastinate on, and what you don't procrastinate on? What's the difference?

10:20

Take some time to think about it. So let me tell you to that when I was writing my PhD dissertation, I did not procrastinate. I had a rhythm going, that worked really well. For me, I would go at this time I was going to Columbia University, is where I got my PhD. And I'd go to the Columbia Business School Library every day rain or shine, I'd read and write for hours until about late afternoon. It was a clockwork kind of process. For me, it was just really rhythmic. I didn't even think twice about I just did it. And I knew I wanted to finish. But I also liked writing and doing the research. But what I procrastinated on was the editing part. So after my advisor and professors on my committee would give me feedback, I would just dread the whole process. My procrastination started with reading their comments, I'd get their hard copies back, and I just let it sit in my bag for days, right, I would just stare at it. stare at it. And I mean days, I would just let it sit there. And I would distract myself by doing work in other parts of my dissertation. Like I was one of those very productive procrastinators, like I do a lot of work, you know, in different areas, but not on the actual tasks that I want it to be doing, right, which is like in this case, I wanted to be reading their comments and then making those edits. And if I analyze myself back then, because I did not have thought work as a tool, and I kind of wish I did. But let's just say like I retrospectively went ahead and analyze myself, I can tell you why I procrastinated. I can tell you without even an analysis. I know now that I made it mean something about me when I read their comments. And when I'd have to go back and make editing changes, like I made it means all these things about me. Right? Like there was one time that I was asked to take out like entire paragraphs, and I had grown attached to what I written, right. But I mean, it means something about me that they wanted me to change what I wrote, like I felt inadequate. I felt lesser than and you know, deep down, I felt fear that I was going to fail the entire process. So immediately, when I read the comments, a swirl of thoughts bombarded my mind, and they were, you know, you're not good enough. Janny What are you doing? You're horrible writer. And worst of all, I kept imagining my mind that other people would just write flawlessly never have to make edits. Right. So I'd beat myself up for being this horrible writer who would never make it. And so this was an area which I procrastinated because I made the process about my own ego, and like what it meant about me as a person, right, I also now looking back, I activated black and white thinking that placed my self worth within these two polls of success and failure. Like I would either succeed or fail, right? Like there's no in between. Right? Which the you know, it's like, what about growth, you know, about learning or improving as a person or a writer, right? So I didn't think about those things. I was just like, Oh, I would either succeed or fail based on those comments. And so I think that's interesting, because, like my procrastination, relied heavily upon this very black and white thinking, which then generated these feelings of discomfort that I like, didn't want to have to confront and feel and process and so I just further procrastinated. You know, and if you're trained in academia, you know, becoming Professor grad student, you know, you know, that the whole journey can be considered quite grueling, right, like just the process of it. And again, that's an optional thought, again, it's how you perceive it. And it's not just the dissertation writing stage. But you know, in academia, you're putting these environments were so much things out of your control. And there's a clear pecking order where graduate students are apprentices but also treated as subordinates. And on top of that, I think academics are trained to be cynical the world right, even though draws very idealistic people who want to change the world, right? So I say all of this is to say that structurally, there are for sure some challenges within the world of academia. But that always come back to comes back to our own minds, and how we're perceiving it as well. Right? Even if we want to make structural changes within academia, or in the world, like if you're an activist, you know, you want to change policy. You know, you're really all about making these global changes. I am right there with you. Right. That's kind of why I even became an anthropologist because I wanted to help change the world. And also, I'm in coaching as well. But I think it's always essential no matter what, whether you want to make structural changes in the world. that you need to learn to manage your thoughts and emotions that will always help you. It's going to energize you for the long run. Excuse me, it's going to energize you for the long run, and keep you doing the important work you're doing to change the world without the mental drama. Okay, that's a little side side thing for me. But now back to procrastination. I have some proposed solutions for coping with procrastination. Now I know that there are experts like Tim Ferriss who I follow and I really enjoy reading, who just say don't think about it and get it done. I disagree. though. I think just stop procrastinating. You have to actually think about it and you have to dig deep. Even the most stoic like if you're just you find yourself very emotionless or people that you know, they're very stoic people, even the ones who claim they don't overthink or they don't feel things. I know that they have underlying thoughts and feelings when it comes to procrastination. If they're procrastinators, they must have these underlying thoughts and feelings that I think are holding them back. So I would explore what's going on in my brain. If I'm procrastinating, I would explore and dig deep, and figure out what thoughts and feelings are holding me back. So I would think I would try to reflect and think about the task that I want to do that I'm procrastinating on and ask myself, what am I feeling? Is it anxiety? Is it fear, I would get my journal out, and I would write it down. And it's hard for you if it's hard for you to figure out what you're feeling. You can write out in description, like, Oh, I feel it as flutters in my stomach, or my chest feels heavy.

16:41

The important thing is to try to locate where the feeling lies, is it in your shoulders? Is it in your jaw when the pit of your stomach? You know, that's if you can't describe it, if you can describe it as anxiety, or sadness, or guilt, by all means, write that instead. Now, this is part of doing a thought download or thought model which I've talked about in the Life Coach School, we do this is what thought work is you write it out in a model and you try to figure out what your thoughts and feelings are and what kind of actions you take when you have these thoughts and feelings, what kind of results they produce. This is always your thoughts that end up producing a certain result whether you want that result or not. But it's important to be aware of how your mind is working. So when you feel that feeling, what thought is associated with that feeling, there might be multiple thoughts. But for this particular model, that you're going to be writing down. When it comes to procrastination, you're going to focus only on one thought and one feeling. Okay, so we'll focus on that thought and feeling that seems to weigh heaviest on you. When you think about the task that you're procrastinating on. Okay, even if it's like you have multiple thoughts, multiple feelings, okay. For me, when I did that thought download on my past on my like dissertation writing days, I realized that the thought, I am going to fail, that thought kept coming up for me, and generated the feeling of fear, which contributed to my procrastinating on the whole editing process. So now when I procrastinate on something, for example, even with this coaching business, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh, why don't I have to fix my website, you know, some of these things that, you know, I know, that generates negative feelings for me when I think about it, or even have to do it. And so I will procrastinate on it, right. So what I do is I do a thought down, I'll write down the model. I always dig deep. And I try to figure out what is my thought and feeling about this particular task that's making me procrastinate. I know, it's something I'm trying to avoid. Right. Like I know, it's like a feeling I'm trying to avoid. And I also know that shaming myself for it won't help. So I always shower myself with a dose of compassion and self love. And I forgive myself for procrastinating. Right, I always go back to the thought that life is 5050. So 50% of the time, I will experience positive emotions. And 50% of the time, I will have negative emotions. That's like a coaching kind of rule, right? Even life coaches are not immune to the 5050 rule. Right. I think that, you know, life coaches also all experience life in the 50 zone. Like, we also have negative emotions 30% of the time, but the difference is that I think, you know, we've gotten better or I have gotten better, but we're no good at managing our minds. When it comes to that when we're in that 50% of the negative emotion. So like managing our minds and our thoughts is so key. Right? And so I think that's what coaching has really helped me do. And that's what I'm trying to help you do here too, right. And that's also going to help with procrastination. So I know that you know, even though I still experienced life in the 5050 zone, right, but I'm 1000 times percent 1,000% times better at managing my mind than when I was writing my dissertation. So I know I'm going to get better at being mindful of my thoughts and of embracing the discomfort. And the more I'm able to embrace the discomfort, rather than resist it, which is essentially what procrastinating is, it's like, You're, you're resisting the reality of having to do this task. So you run away from it, and you resist that discomfort. But so, but you are always better off embracing and accepting that discomfort, you know, go ahead, and just remind yourself that life is 5050 and the negative feelings, it's just part of any process, right. And so for me, when I'm starting to feel that I'm procrastinating on something I'm dreading, I always go back to this 5050 rule, you know, and I know that resisting it or trying to push it or avoid that discomfort is only going to make my suffering worse, right? So I remind myself that life is 5050, that negative feelings is just part of any process. You know, I sit with it, I do a thought download, I write down the model, I write down my thoughts and feelings. I figure out the thought and feeling that's causing the discomfort and I write it all down and examine those thoughts like, what am I making this mean about me? And why is it true that it means I'm a horrible writer, for example, one of my professors feedback is meant to improve my writing skills, or what if I stopped trying to control his or their thoughts about my writing, and just work on taking the bits and pieces from their feedback that's useful to me and learn from it? Right? What if I allow others to have their own thoughts? Even if it involves a judgement about me? Or my writing? Right? I mean, that's their own thoughts. We call it their manuals, like everyone kind of operates from their own manuals. And that's okay. Right, that's okay for them to have thoughts that maybe I don't agree with, or that might, initially I mean, you know, not like, initially, right? If it's a judgement about me, right, but if I really sit and think about it, and just like, allow myself to sit with that negative feeling, just just sit with that discomfort, you know, that comes from that judgment, you know, and I just remind myself, like, life is 5050. And also it's okay for them to have their own thoughts about me. Right? So what if that's, that's all right. You know, what if all of this, all of this is part of my journey to grow, and to develop resilience and courage? And what if this discomfort is just part of the path to success? What if I'm supposed to be here right now, right now feeling what I'm feeling? And working through my thoughts and feelings? What if nothing has gone wrong?

23:14

So these are the questions I would ask myself and answer them one by one in my journal or piece of paper, right? It would reveal to me how the primitive part of my brain works. And I would use my prefrontal cortex to question the assumptions I had about myself. That's making me procrastinate. So we know that the brain is not to be trusted, right the brain, my brain was storing all this mental drama about the editing process. And that uncomfortable feeling I had was causing me to procrastinate, the primitive part of our brain and I think some scientists call it the reptilian part I call the Lizard Lizard part where I've named my lizard part Phyllis is used to self preserving behavior and that includes that they say the four F's like feeding, fighting fleeing and reproduction while reproductions are but you you know what I'm saying. Now, most of us aren't in this fight or flight mode on a daily basis like our evolutionary ancestors were, but somehow in this modern world, our brains have not evolved to understand that Okay, so it can it constantly purrs Miss perceives some of the tasks that we do on a daily basis as a threat, even though it's not really right. It's not even considered fighting or fleeing or feeding. Right. So, but our brains haven't quite evolved to learn to distinguish between like real threats like a lion chasing you, or, and so distinguish between that and the perceived threat of not sending off an email or getting feedback in a seminar or on a paper or seeing that as a threat. Right. So our brains haven't yet evolved to distinguish between the two. So just sees it all as threats like, Oh my gosh, you know, I have to do this particular task and I dread this feeling. So that's a threat. Right. So I'm seeing that all of that causes, I think some people to procrastinate. And so that's why it's so critical to rewire our brains. And the tell the primitive part that this is not our fight or flight situation. And doing so will help you stop procrastinating. Now I know that there are procrastinators who don't fall into the perfectionistic camp. And they also don't fall into other categories quite easily. Some procrastinators that I know, simply just aren't motivated. Like, they really just need a nudge. They need to feel that sense of urgency before they can start something. Now, I think even in those cases, those procrastinators are delaying doing something because of some uncomfortable feeling that they're facing. If they really dug deep, they'd find that out. And now it's possible that this group of people who don't feel a sense of urgency, that they lack motivation, they really need that kind of a mind trick to help them feel motivated. And so I have a mind trick for you. And I think that involves tapping into our future selves, this works really well for me. And so I hope that it can help you, if you're one of those people who procrastinate because you just don't feel motivated. Here are some exercises for you. Okay, so first, ask yourself, why do I want to do this? Like, why do I want to do this task, it helps to figure out the reasons for doing something like for me every year, so I write a personal mission statement. And I make sure that if I'm avoiding a task, I always relay it back to my I related back to my mission statement. You know, I would just say, Well, does it align with my values? And my mission statement? Does it help me accomplish my larger goals, right, like, for example, you know, creating this podcast, I'm the one that actually goes in, I like, do the mixing, and I like edit it, and I put it together, right? Now, it's not the most favorable part of the larger task of my coaching business. But I do it because it goes back to my mission statement of trying to, like help the world and serve the world and serve humanity through coaching, right. 

So I always relate it back to my, you know, mission statement and my values of wanting to serve humanity. Okay. So I always remind myself, and in fact, you know, you can put that your mission statement, you know, in your personal values on a poster, or you can tack it up on a wall, you can put on post it notes, you know, I put a lot of post notes on my mirror, I also have an easel where I put, you know, reminders up there, I also always print out my personal mission statement, I put all over my walls, right. So it's just to remind yourself why your goal or your larger mission is important to you. And so whatever tasks it is that you're doing, and that you're avoiding it, you need to be motivated on, you know, if it's part of that larger mission statement and your personal values, well, then you have your purpose, then you have your motivation, then, you know, you know what I may be avoiding this task, and I may lack motivation. But, you know, I am motivated by the larger goal, and this helps me accomplish that larger goal. Right. So always tie it back to your mission and your values, and do what it takes to remind yourself of your mission and values like on a daily basis, right? It takes, it takes some work, it takes some like reframing and also just rewiring your brain to remind yourself like, why am I here on this earth? Right? What is my purpose? What is my mission, all these other little tasks? They all help me do that, and serve my purpose in this world. Right? Okay. Now, that's the first tip I have. Okay, the second tip I have is to envision your future self. Now if you're like me, and you like to draw or write and be creative, by all means, go ahead and do that. draw or write about your future self, you know, what does she look like? Right? And I mean, like, I don't mean appearances, like here, but I mean, the feeling that you get when you envision your future self, right, like, Who is she she glowing? She radiant, right? In my mind, you know, my future self is very radiant, and glowing, and just so happy and just content, right? What is she feeling? You know, what is your future self feeling? You know, what is she doing right now? Right? And for me, I envision my future self giving talks, you know, and you know, touching people's lives, right, through coaching and just engaging with people in group settings and individuals, you know, through coaching, right.

29:44

You know, so So write all this down about your future self. Okay, is she loving her business and connecting with people from all walks of life, that's my vision, my future self, but your future self may be different, right? But, you know, write that down, envision it, you know, resurrect her in your Mind, you know, maybe your future self has finished a book and is talking to people and helping people through those stories, okay, maybe your future self is running a marathon, you know, right? Or it's crossed the finish line, right? Maybe your future self is, you know, has a really, you know, incredible business that's providing food to people. And it's just totally thriving. And it's just like, you know, your future self gets up in the morning, just excited and motivated about going to work every day, right? So whatever it is, that you envision for your future self, and doesn't matter what age or what stage of life you're in your future, self is always there as a resource for you to tap into, to get you motivated to do certain things that's going to get you to your future, right. So you write that down on paper, and then you refer back to that future self whenever you feel like procrastinating. Like I know a lot of people do this, actually, you know, I talked about marathons, but with marathons, right? If they don't go for a practice run, they will envision themselves at the finish line, you know, that'll be so powerful, that it will motivate them to do that practice, run. Okay. And, you know, the reason why is because sometimes our present self can be kind of limited in what it sees, you know, or, you know, maybe our present self doesn't feel the reward of doing something that we're trying to avoid, right. So present self is just kind of like has this tunnel vision, but the future self, you know, when you tap into that future self, you know, you're just seeing the whole world before your eyes, like the potential is limitless, okay, our future self knows how awesome it'll be when you finish that goal. Okay, so if you're feeling I'm both motivated, and you're procrastinating because of that, those are the two tricks I tell you is, number one, relate it back to your personal mission statement and values and constant remind yourself every day about your mission statement and your values. And number two, envision your future self, like tap into your future self to motivate you to do the task and cross the finish line. And by the way, that future self could be years from now. Or it could just be like tomorrow, your future self right. Like when I used to play piano and I would do recitals like my piano teacher gave me this really great book, I forgot what it was. But it was about playing tennis and how similar it was to playing piano and recitals or competitions and is about actually envisioning your future self like envisioning envisioning yourself on the court and competition day was very similar to envision yourself playing your particular piece, on recital day or on competition day. And you know, that future self was just a day away. But it was like, just envision yourself and see that vision. And, you know, work through whatever fears you had, but like envisioning yourself doing it, so well, like hitting that ball, and, you know, rallying, you know, really well, in tennis, or in the piano case, like really just going through your piece, like even playing each note in your mind and visioning that. 

That was like such a powerful exercise, you know, and I was like, so young, I was a teenager. But when I look back now, I'm like, wow, that was just so amazing like that, you know, my piano teacher knew to give me that book, and to, like, introduce this kind of thought work to me. And this envisioning the future so early on, you know, but I tell you this, because I'm saying that the future self that you're envisioning in your mind that you're tapping into, doesn't have to be years from now, it could just be your future self tomorrow, your future self is going to thank you for doing the task that you did today, you know, to lead up to the future for tomorrow, right? So you can envision your future self however you want, how many days ahead how many years ahead that you want, it's up to you. And it's up to you what feels good for you, like, you know, if you envision your future self two days from now, is she going to be like a different person because she's finished that task, right? Or even years from now, which is had this like full, fully fledged, successful business, right, that's gonna help you if that's going to help you complete certain tasks that you've been avoiding, then by all means, do whatever, you know, resurrect whatever future self that will help you. Go ahead and move through those negative emotions and do what you need to do to accomplish your goals. Okay, now, if you're a perfectionist, remember, perfectionism is for scared people, right? And so Brooke Castillo of the Life Coach School has said, put out that b minus work, right? And that's the only way to improve it is if you fail, and learn to manage your mind emotions, right? So that's, you know, I think another tip for perfectionist Avoid or procrastinate is just to go ahead and like put out that work. But before you put out that work, I think with all of these tips that I'm giving you, it always is important, I think, to do that thought download to figure out and write out your thoughts and feelings that's holding you back. Totally normal. I'm just human, to be experiencing this, this discomfort that's associated with the task that I want to do. Right. And so that is how we learn to rewire our brains. Okay, is to always go back to that thought download. And then I hope that you found these other tips to be really useful. Again, I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to get your feedback. You know, and if you have any topics for future podcasts, do let me know. You can email me at jannychang1@gmail.com. That's j-a-n-n-y-c-h-a-n-g-1 at gmail dot com. Please also follow my podcasts. You know, check out my website, www dot Janny chang.com. And follow me on Instagram, @drjannycoach and on Facebook. I have a page as well and just you know, I'd love to hear from you DM me, you know, contact me, email me. I think you and you have a wonderful week.