Episode 123: Jenni & Guest Speaker, Dr. Penny Kendall-Reed

Do you ever feel the weight of arthritis settling into your joints? Are you intrigued by the unseen role that your own genetics play in your health journey? Then buckle up, because we're about to take you on an extraordinary journey into the world of functional medicine with the avant-garde naturopathic doctor, Dr. Penny Kindle-Reed. Renowned for her remarkable career, and the author of six national bestselling books, Dr. Kindle-Reed is a pioneer in her field. Our riveting conversation with her uncovers the often overlooked links between stress, inflammation, and arthritis.

Dr. Kindle-Reed takes us on a deep dive into the human body, unraveling mysteries of the immune system, the role of genetics and exercise, and even the unexpected effects of high-intensity interval training. We also delve into the fascinating world of genes, discussing peculiarities of endurance runners and revealing the profound impact of our genetic coding on our body's ability to oxygenate during exercise. Hold your breath as Dr. Kindle-Reed unveils the secrets behind managing arthritis genes and inflammation, and the game-changing role of natural supplements in this process.

If your interest is piqued, don't miss out on our holistic discussion about treating and preventing arthritis. We explore beyond the surface, looking at the importance of diet, exercise, and regular body treatments. You'll discover how identifying potential inflammatory foods and finding the right type of exercise for yourself can transform your health journey. Let's revolutionize the way we look at arthritis. Join us, and let's unravel the science together!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is the Berman Method Podcast, featuring Dr Jake Berman and physician assistant Jenny Berman. We are here to treat problems and not symptoms. Disclaimer this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and not to treat anyone or to give medical advice. If you are interested in any information that we are giving and would like to use this for yourself, we recommend that you contact your primary care physician or reach out to us and ask us questions about yourself specifically. Enjoy Welcome to the Berman Method Podcast, where we are focused on treating problems and not symptoms. I am Jenny Berman, physician assistant, and I am here with a very special guest today. Jake is not here with me today, but should be back next week. I am really excited to introduce to you guys the special guest that I have on the podcast. Dr Penny Kindle-Reed is who we have today. Thank you so much for joining us. I am really excited about this.

Speaker 2: 1:02

It is my pleasure. I am so excited to be here with you. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Dr Penny Kindle-Reed is a naturopathic doctor in Toronto. After graduating from McGill University in neurobiology, she earned a degree in naturopathic medicine from the Canadian College of naturopathic medicine, where she received the Dr Alan Tyler Award for most outstanding clinician. Dr Kindle-Reed is the author of six national bestselling books, including her latest Fix your Jeans to Fit your Jeans. In 2013, she was voted naturopath of the year and in 2018 was recipient of the top naturopathic doctor award in Canada.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Dr Kindle-Reed is the creator of integrated genetic platform GenRxca in Canada. She analyzes and interprets genetic profiles to design personalized health programs for patients worldwide. She is a medical consultant for peer encapsulations and Douglas laboratories and a member of the scientific board of Pure Genomics. So again, she is top notch and we are just thrilled to be able to have her on this podcast. I actually met Dr Kindle-Reed at a peer encapsulations conference many, many, many years ago, and you were actually the first person to tell me about serenitin plus at the time, which is a supplement that has alfionine in it that we use for a ton of our clients Just for stress and anxiety, sleep, insulin resistance. I mean so many things, so I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 2: 2:45

That's one of my favorite products. I know it's sort of shooting off topic here, but stress is actually behind 90% of pathology. It literally has been clinically proven to be behind 90% of pathology and it's our HPA access, or stress access. It has a hands in every component in the body, which is why it's behind 90% of most things and we're just living in the sympathetic or stress side of our nervous system and it has so many different effects, from weight gain to altering our dipokines, the hormones that regulate our metabolism and the rate of fat burning. But even from a musculoskeletal point of view, it increases inflammation by 76%. It increases the production of metalloproteases, which we'll talk about later, those enzymes that break down collagen.

Speaker 2: 3:31

It has all these different nasty side effects and you can treat the inflammation and you can treat the enzymes and you can treat the metabolic hormones. But if you don't treat the cause of what's behind all of those guys, you're just chasing symptoms all the time. And so what I love about serenity and it has the theme, but it also has that milk decapacti, decapacti in it and that's what actually. It doesn't slow the stress response, it actually gets you from the stress side, the sympathetic side of your nervous system back into the parasympathetic side, and it is the only nutrient that does that.

Speaker 1: 4:07

And with no side effects, right, and that's amazing and it's a conversation I have to have regularly. And, again, I know this is kind of a topic of what we had planned to really focus on today. But I because you mentioned that milk derivative, that is a decapacti, that's in the supplement I have to have the conversation very regularly with my clients that it does not interact with those of us who have a dairy sensitivity like I do myself. So if you want to touch on that, I know people who say it, but just come in Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 4:37

So our immune systems really intelligent, but it can only see things that are 12 amino acids or longer. So this protein sequence yes, it's extracted from milk, but it's only 10 amino acids in length, so it sort of scoots under the radar of the immune system. The immune system can't see it and bypasses straight through. It's something that came from breast milk originally. They noticed that babies that suckled with mom, their cortisol levels dropped. So they thought, well, is it because they're suckling with mom or is there something in breast milk? So they put breast milk in a bottle, formula in a bottle, regular milk in a bottle and the breast milk baby bottle that baby their cortisol levels dropped most rapidly. Then they started playing around with what protein sequence it was and now we manufacture it in lab. But that's how safe it is. I would give it to pregnant women if the fetus is in distress, or the mother, and I will give it to 450 pound football players.

Speaker 1: 5:31

Right, and it's amazing that the immune system doesn't take it in as dairy but yet it has such an impact on the absorption of the alfionine and the parasympathetic and sympathetic atmosphere. I was just actually listening to a podcast this morning about fear increasing urinary tract infections and kidney infections, and it's just. You know, like you said, it's 90% of what is happening, whether your diagnosis is UTIs or weight gain from insulin resistance or you know what we're going to talk about today joints.

Speaker 2: 6:08

Exactly, Cortisol will increase something called anti-diuretic hormone through kidneys, which means don't let me pee. So we start to see hesitancy and frequency there. And it also alters it's called our T helper one and T helper two side of our immune system. So downgrades our killing side of our immune system and upgrades the inflammatory side. So that lays the foundation for so many different infections.

Speaker 1: 6:30

It does. So I am so grateful I was able to meet you that many years ago, I think it's like probably eight years ago now that I know something like that Exactly.

Speaker 1: 6:39

So that's wonderful. Well, today we wanted to talk a little bit more about arthritis actually. So you know I'm in the functional medicine world and we see a lot, a lot of individuals for gut health and autoimmune disease, weight gain, insulin resistance, which we talk all about on this podcast. But we also talk about the physical component with my husband, as far as you know, those patients who have arthritic knees and arthritic hips. But something I want to dive even a little bit more into today is how functional medicine, what I do in the wellness world, actually plays into the arthritis that patients are experiencing as we age. And you know I bring this up because A lot of times we think arthritis is so normal, but it doesn't really have to be the norm.

Speaker 2: 7:31

No, if it was normal, everybody would have it and not everybody has it. One of the really good examples that I use here, because everybody likes to say well, I've been active and I've been a runner my whole life and you know, and I've been a runner my whole life and my knees are great, all of my genes that we'll talk about code really well for that. But I look at the Kenyans who are the endurance runners who are running long and long and long. They are genetically we know that they code very well for their call one, their MMP3. They're like all sorts of different genes that we'll speak about today to drop their inflammatory load when they're doing endurance running, so so they don't create that, they don't break down their tissue from doing. If they were to start doing sprints, it'd be a whole different ballgame because that requires a whole different metabolic process and their genes are all catered towards endurance and not sprinting.

Speaker 2: 8:31

So we have genes that dictate do you make more of an enzyme that breaks down collagen in your joints or your tendons and your ligaments? We have genes that say how much do you inflame it? Do you inflame it more than normal or not at all? We have genes that talk about. How well do you repair that collagen once we've broken it down through wear and tear or through those metalloproteases, those enzymes that we've augmented genetically? So so much of it comes down to that. And I have so many patients that come in and they say you know my parents, my mother has arthritis and I don't want to get. I'm like, well, you're not necessarily destined to get it Like, let's take a look at your genetics here.

Speaker 1: 9:07

Sure, Sure, and you know, I know we'll talk a little bit more about this but the ability to turn those genes on and off. You know, even if your genes say this is what you're made up of, how can we control those factors? So, yeah, I would love that. And so you've already discussed a little bit, just in that brief intro, that the exercise does not have to dictate how much or how bad or if we even get arthritis. Is that correct? I was able to gather that from what you just mentioned.

Speaker 2: 9:43

You're absolutely right, as long as we're doing the right type of exercise, okay.

Speaker 2: 9:48

So, what I see so many people do is I've heard HIIT exercise is the best for me and I've heard it's what's going to help me lose weight the most. Right, if you, if your blood flow and your oxygenation and your muscle fiber type is all catered towards endurance. So, for example, we have a gene. It's called an Adrabi2 gene and it talks about bronchodilation. So how well do you oxygenate your muscles while you're exercising? Injurance. People need a small amount of oxygen for a long period of time. That's me. Sprinters need a whole pile of oxygen for a short period of time. That's the sprinter, that's the HIIT guy.

Speaker 2: 10:28

I've raced, running my whole life, always endurance. I can. I can sprint because my muscles are conditioned. But I'm always inflamed after, particularly now that I'm over 50, even more so when you're younger.

Speaker 2: 10:41

You can get away with anything because your cells are turning over so quickly you don't notice that it's causing an ill effect, right, but what happens is my cells will actually my muscles will go slightly hypoxic. They don't have enough oxygen because I don't have the right type of oxygenation for a large amount for a short period of time. The same, so. So I produce more inflammatory markers from that. I produce more toxic byproducts from it. If the same thing will happen through a gene called an ACE gene, which talks about blood flow to the muscle as we're exercising, if it's all catered towards HIIT and you try to run a marathon, the same thing is going to happen. You don't have that long, slow delivery of blood for over, so you're going to increase your inflammation, you're going to increase the damage, decrease your healing of that. That's going to start up all of those processes of inflammation and arthritis with it Okay.

Speaker 1: 11:37

So, and we may see that in ways of as far as seeing the inflammation is where I'm going we may be able to see the inflammation by not seeing the response to the exercise that we anticipate we should get, or potentially having more pain after exercise, holding on to water our legs swelling up. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 11:57

You're absolutely right. So one of the things that always astounds people until I explain it to them and yet they've lived it, they just don't understand it is actually weight gain from doing the wrong kind of exercise. So when we increase that inflammatory load, inflammation is actually stored inside of our fat tissues and the adipose that's inside those fat tissues. It acts as a buffer to any toxin that we have in our body which is also why we need to detox when we need to lose weight properly but to those inflammatory markers. So you may be doing everything right, in or in to lose weight, your diet might be perfect, but if you're doing the wrong kind of exercise and generating more inflammation, your fat cells going.

Speaker 2: 12:37

Oh my God, I am not going to give up any fat because if I do, I literally will die. The ratio of inflammatory toxin is higher than the ratio of fat in the tissue. That's toxic to the tissue. The adipose tissue dies. So it's no self-preservation not letting go of any of this and so and I will do that I will swell and if I continued with that, going down the hit road, I will actually gain more weight.

Speaker 1: 13:02

Right, and we've seen that. You know there's several I'm not going to point out any names but studios in town that do more of the high intensity training. Or you know, you'll get your heart rate up and then you'll go lift, or you'll get your heart rate up and then go do something lower intensity, and we do. We have clients all the time that are like I'm going to these workouts for 45 or 60 minutes a day, four to five days a week, and I'm gaining weight, not losing, and it's not muscle mass Exactly.

Speaker 2: 13:30

And that's the thing. So there's a research paper or a book or a program for a bazillion different diets, a bazillion different exercise books, and they all work for somebody, and that's the problem. That's how those research papers get published, because they had a select group of people that it was fantastic for, and so that's you know until we start delving it. How do you know which one is yours? You can only know by looking at your genetics at the genetic testing.

Speaker 1: 14:03

So this is again kind of a side topic. Do you use the 23 and me for genetic testing? I do.

Speaker 2: 14:09

So, because it gives you the widest variety of genes for the most economical price. And then? So then what I do is upload it into my program, as other docs have access to my program as well. They can upload their patients 23 and me into it, and it spits out a 65 to 70 page report on everything you want to know of. This is how you have to eat, this is how you have to exercise, this is where this is your detoxification pathways, your stress pathways, serotonin, dopamine, your immune system, your risk for cancer, alzheimer's, everything. And then what to do about it.

Speaker 2: 14:44

It gives you a complete treatment protocol for each of those sections, so it doesn't just say you know you should increase your proteins. This is how many grams of protein you need. You are a candidate for intermittent fasting, or you're not? Your phase two is slow. You need liposomal glutathione twice a day for eight weeks and drop it down to once. Like it's very specific, right, and I did it because I started studying genetics years ago, years and years and years ago, because two people would walk in the office with what looked like the same issue Treatment, traditional treatment protocol that we learned in school would work perfectly for one of them.

Speaker 2: 15:23

And then not at all back from the other person Right, it just had to dig deeper and deeper, and until we see it. And now? So now you can guide treatment protocols, but you can also look preventatively at where you want to go and why something isn't working for somebody.

Speaker 1: 15:43

So, for those who don't know, 23andme is a genetic testing that you can actually do at home also. You can you know as a the normal population can order this test and do it at home, and you just provide a saliva sample Correct, yes, a saliva sample and ship it off, and then you actually can get the results on your own, though it's a lot of things to interpret.

Speaker 1: 16:07

It's a lot of analyzation, interpretation, that goes into it, and so someone like Dr Penny, kendall Reed or myself even I did it when I was, several years ago, working with Dr Carolyn Cedarquist.

Speaker 1: 16:18

We reviewed a lot of 23andMe's at that time and it's something where again you can put it into one of these systems like you have. Pure genomics is another one, but to be able to read and analyze and get more detail about how the different genes are working together Exactly. So you know we've talked a little bit about how the inflammation specifically related to exercise is where we started this conversation can actually cause the weight gain, but it also, you know, going back to the arthritis topic and the joint issues, I want to even dive a little bit deeper into that, even though it is a little bit of a goal and we're more. You know, typically I talk more about the functional medicine side, but because of our listeners seeing both sides of us, with Dr Jake and myself, what do you think is the biggest contributing factor to the development and progression of arthritis? When it comes to the, is it because of our genes?

Speaker 2: 17:19

So, it is. It really is so and it's three prong. When we're talking about arthritis, we're talking about degradation of the collagen and the rate at which somebody does that, how much they inflame it. And then the third part is how well you repair it. Because our collagen is always being like everything in her body, right. It's always been broken down and repaired broken down and repaired Right.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Some people create so through interleukin-6 or tumor necrosis factor. They are two of our biggest inflammatory markers in the body, particularly when it comes to arthritis. And with those genes some people can actually make 60 to 70% more of those inflammatory substrates for any offending factor. So when they go for a run, we all produce inflammation because that's how our body heals. Right, a small amount of inflammation. Some people will produce 60 to 70% more.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Okay, then that inflammation will tip off metalloproteases. So metalloproteases are enzymes which will go over there and try to degrade away the tissue that's inflamed and sort of mop up what it thinks is healing, but in doing so it degrades away the collagen. Some people make 50% more metalloproteases whenever that gene is turned on. So if you make the normal amount, you're not really degrading away normal tissue. If you make 50% more, you now start to degrade that little bit that's inflamed and the bit next to it, and the bit next to it, and the bit next to it, and then we have a gene called Col1a1 and another one, 5a1, which talks about how well do you repair that collagen once it's been inflamed? And some people don't repair it very well.

Speaker 2: 18:57

So you have all three of those variables going on on a daily basis. When you're walking around, you're producing 70% more inflammation. If you do do a hard work again, you're increasing that enzyme breakdown and they're just behind the eight ball all the time. But as you mentioned at the start, just because we have a gene doesn't mean we're destined to get that disease. So every gene is like a light switch, has an on and an off position.

Speaker 2: 19:25

What a gene does is makes a protein. So are you making the protein or are you not? Are you making that metalloprotease or are you not? Are you making that interleukin-6 or not? So we can take somebody who is what we call variant for that metalloprotease. They make so much more. Turn that gene off. Similarly with interleukin-6, turn it off. So you're now not making 70% more when it's called upon. Right, and that's the whole key. There are a couple of genes, particularly the phase 2 detoxification genes. They don't actually turn on and off. You actually bypass the function of the gene. So you have to stay on that supplement, always to mop up the side effect with it. But you can basically get it to where the body views it as a normal position as long as you stay on that natural supplement.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Right, so talk to me a little bit about these genes. Okay, so we get our genetic testing. It shows that we are at higher risk for arthritis because we have these genes. So what are the best ways to keep these genes turned off?

Speaker 2: 20:29

Absolutely so. My favorite ones for keeping off liposomal glutathione, for keeping off interleukin-6 and TNF alpha, are liposomal glutathione and NAC. There's tons of amazing anti-inflammatory herbs. Curcumin is a wonderful one, but curcumin can actually increase inflammation in a lot of people depending on how one of their phase 1 detoxification gene codes something called CYP1A2. But glutathione and NAC, they do more than just reduce inflammation. They also upgrade phase 2 detoxification, which is the pulling out of inflammatory byproducts once they've been made, the pulling out of toxins that we are all breathing in from our environment, which also are another source of inflammation. So it has this dual effect of helping to turn that gene off as well as upgrade phase 2 detoxification. And we know that when there is inflammation in the body, especially with inside the cell, that lowers glutathione, our body's natural glutathione levels, which then increases inflammation anymore. So it has this cyclical effect. So we can cut through that cyclical effect.

Speaker 2: 21:42

If I'm looking to repair collagen, I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it. I'm going to give hydrolyzed collagen. My favorite version of hydrolyzed collagen is one by a company called Science for Health. It's called Whole Body Collagen. Okay, it has the great hydrolyzed collagen that many products do, but two of the extracts that are in it. They're called Fortijell and Varisol. They also directly lower interleukin-6 and TNF-alpha, unlike the rest of the other hydrolyzed collagen that are out there. Then if I want to inhibit those metalloproteases, there's an amazing product called Ligament Restore by peer encapsulations. It has different nutrients that will increase collagen repair as well as inhibition of those metalloproteases. Those enzymes Where's veritrol itself on its own will also inhibit metalloproteases and turn that gene to those off positions.

Speaker 1: 22:36

Question real quick on the collagen, because it's something that we recommend frequently for our clients, not just for the hair, skin, nails, regenerating collagen you know those health benefits that everybody typically knows about. We also utilize it because it's an added source of protein. It's not a complete protein which we talk with our clients about, but when we are so focused on getting enough protein in the meal plan, for majority of our clients it's an added source of protein. The brand that you recommended here is it also between 11 and 20 grams of protein per serving.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Yeah, it's nine grams, oh, perfect. What I like about adding in collagen as a version of a protein source as well which I'm thrilled you guys are doing that is it's very low in certain amino acids that will inhibit autophagy. So, believe it or not, the vegan protein powders are really high in certain amino acids that like to inhibit autophagy and promote growth, whereas the collagen doesn't do that. So autophagy is that cell process where a body will selectively not feed a damaged or cancerous cell, a damaged cell, an inflamed cell, and so it actually kills it off and it regenerates those cellular parts to then go heal other parts of the body. It naturally occurs when we're in starvation mode or we eat less, so we don't have enough fuel coming in.

Speaker 2: 24:10

I'm not going to feed those guys. I'm going to feed the good, healthy guys. Protein inhibits autophagy and certain amino acids will inhibit it at a higher rate, and the amino acids that are in collagen don't inhibit it at a higher rate. If you do 30 grams of any protein, it's going to inhibit autophagy, but at least it's not adding more to that Right.

Speaker 1: 24:35

And so what if you utilize any added sources of protein besides the collagen? Is there one that you prefer from?

Speaker 2: 24:43

a. I like doing a mixture of it. I don't want people getting their proteins just from one. I prefer people sticking to. I do like plant-based, don't get me wrong, but I also like fish and I also like eggs and I like a mixture of protein sources because they all have a different ratio of amino acids and they all slightly function differently.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Absolutely More whole food sources. So, you know, and that's something we talk about again every day in our practices whole foods, whole foods, whole foods, vegetables, greens, you know, plant-based items, really important. However, some of our clients, a lot of our clients, will use some type of protein replacement to help with convenience right, they're very busy, moms of three, ceo, whatever. So at some points we have to use things that are convenient. However, you know, just last week I had the conversation of a client using three protein shakes a day because they needed their protein. I was like you can't do that. Okay, let's take a step back and find something that's going to be a little bit better of a lifestyle for you. So we can still get you know our calories, but not through added sources.

Speaker 2: 25:55

Exactly, I use proteins, protein patterns, a lot with myself and with my patients, but only at one meal if I'm going to do it during the day, and I would much rather use a good, healthy, protein powder than somebody could go get a muffin or cream cheese, or you know, and those are the goods of the nasty world.

Speaker 1: 26:17

That's exactly it. We have to kind of choose our battles and find something that's going to be a lifestyle, but the best type of lifestyle that we can get. So on that topic, with arthritis and foods causing inflammation, are there certain foods that increase our risk of turning those genes on for arthritis?

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, absolutely so. There's a group of foods called deadly night shites, so it's potato, eggplant, tomato and peppers are the main guys there and in 33, only 33% of people highly react to them. Not everybody reacts to all of them. Some people only react to one and truly the best way to figure out if you're reactive to them is to pull them all out for 10 days and then, one at a time, introduce that food in heavily for two days. If on the first day you already notice that you are more stiff, feel more inflamed, get it out. Then you clear it again for 10 days to get the inflammatory load on. Go to the next food. If that next food doesn't react within two to three days, you're not going to react to it. So then you can put in the next food and that's really the best way of telling it.

Speaker 2: 27:23

What it means is that we're making it's a different kind of inflammatory marker there. It's called acrostic landin that we make from those foods, but it's still an inflammatory marker and that any, any version of inflammation can trigger those inflammatory genes. So we want to get rid of every source of inflammation there. But then there's another gene called GIPR. So this is a gene which talks about how, how much insulin we make to carbohydrates. But also, do we create inflammation in the GI tract from the carbohydrate, not the gluten, but from the disaccharide part, the sugar part, of a carbohydrate, of any carbohydrate, even if it's gluten free? And if that's the case and you do it's a huge source of inflammation, triggering a multitude of genes, because so much starts in the gut and that's why you got to take their, their grains and starches and fruits, not the vegetable salad carbs, but they're to a really, really low level.

Speaker 2: 28:20

I I'm not good with that gene. I don't do well with those foods. I'm absolutely fine with gluten. So if there is gluten in something like a protein bar, they add in for texture and protein content, as long as there's not the disaccharide that I inflame to it, I'm fine in terms of inflammation, but I inflame from rice, even though it's gluten free or a variety of those things. So it's individual. And again, people get so confused because there's so many different foods with disaccharides in it. Stress is a huge trigger for inflammation. Stress will actually alter, turn on or off 90% of our genes, which is also how it's connected to 90% of pathology. It actually increases inflammation by 76%. So what I'll also see with people is when they are stressed, they can't eat a whole variety of foods.

Speaker 2: 29:16

When they're not stressed, they can eat them Interesting and so how this starts is stress will decrease the production of our digestive enzymes by up to 88%. Got it. And we already make the least amount for gluten and then the next least amount for dairy, which is why we see those two come up as issues immediately. But then what I see with patients is they come in there like oh my God, I'm not sensitive to every food. Every food is making me inflamed, it's making my joints worse, it's making everything worse. You didn't suddenly just become allergic or sensitive to all these foods.

Speaker 2: 29:52

What happens is, if we stop making those digestive enzymes, we dump something else called hydrochloric acid into the stomach instead. It cuts the food so it's small enough to pass from the stomach into the intestines. But it cuts the food at the wrong spot, so it's a wrong shape of food that passes into the bowel. 90% of our immune system lives in our bowel, so that wrong shape piece of food passes into the bowel. Your immune system is like what's that? I don't recognize that, and it creates this antibody complex against it and IgG against it and we blow up right away. We blow it out, we increase inflammation. So if you go, do IgG testing, by your request.

Speaker 2: 30:31

It's not accurate at all. It's actually been shown to be only 52% accurate, which is 50-50, which is nothing, because you remove the stress, you start making the enzymes, you cut the food in that right spot and it's fine. So generally, what I say to people is what happens if you eat that food when you're on holiday? And invariably the answer is oh my God, so much better.

Speaker 2: 30:51

Mm-hmm, they're all the same food, right, right, and so all you have to do is reprogram the stress pathway and they can start to bring all those foods back in it. But you leave that stress untreated. Those foods are a huge source of inflammation for arthritis, and so there's so many sources and areas that contribute to arthritis. It's not just one. It's toxins in the environment, it's stress, it's lack of sleep. It will start to increase your inflammatory markers in four days. Right, right, during sleep, during stage four sleep, the deep sleep. That is the only time we repair. That's when we take that ligament, restore and that whole body collagen and say, okay, go repair this, drop my arthritic load here, if you will. It doesn't happen during the day. We collect everything that we need to heal during the day. It all happens during stage four sleep no, stage four sleep, no healing.

Speaker 1: 31:48

Right.

Speaker 2: 31:49

There's so many levels of this.

Speaker 1: 31:51

Everything that goes into it. So a couple of things on all of that information you just provided is we talk a lot about cortisol being the stress hormone coming from our adrenal glands, which is part of that HPA access that you've already mentioned actually breaking down the gut lining and damaging the gut lining, which can also increase that antibody response that you've mentioned as far as the immune system. So this is all making sense as to where and something I tell my clients all the time with the gut being the second brain, more than 75% of our serotonin is developed in the gut and everything that you've already announced as far as 90% of the immune system coming from our gut. So if we're at that chronic state of stress, and whether that stress is your husband, wife, your work, your finances, or if it's actually an internal stress of the foods that you're eating, you're still putting your body at that high stress state, which is going to impact again the inflammatory system as a whole.

Speaker 2: 32:53

Absolutely. And it becomes cyclical because inflammation crosses the blood brain barrier and direct stimulates the HPA access. So inflammation can be your source of stress and then, when your HPA access is stimulated, you make 76% more inflammation and it starts looping around. The inflammation will block the production of melatonin. Melatonin is needed to go into stage four. Sleep no stage four sleep, more inflammation, more blockage of melatonin. They all looping together.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Right, you can't just treat one aspect. So when clients are coming in with their arthritis and they just want to go have a joint replacement, well that's not actually fixing the cause of this issue, which then is going to, long term, put you at risk for other autoimmune disease, not just that one joint that you just had replaced. Yeah great, your knee feels wonderful now, right, but five years later, your thyroid is going down the other knee is bothering you.

Speaker 2: 33:51

You're you know whatever the next autoimmune disease is. So my husband is a Northgate Exurgencer, so he's the guy that does the knee replacement, specializes in these, but in his office is filled with ligament, restore whole body collagen, books on stroke, stress management. He's the first one to say you know, I will see you again in five years if you don't follow the basic Right, right, that's amazing, I wish there.

Speaker 1: 34:17

You know we talk a lot about in this podcast how orthopedic surgeons their job is to cut right, so a lot of times they don't even look at these outside sources of what's causing that bone, bone on bone or the collagen level to break down. So it's, you know, truly amazing to see that hopefully more are moving that way to be able to talk about these things. So, as far as the overall treatment recommendations for arthritis one, we, you know, looking at the genes as, first and foremost, the best thing you can do, whether you know doing that 23andMe we mentioned a couple of supplements to help with reducing the inflammatory response. We've talked about some foods that could be impacting the genetic component. One thing I wanted to ask you about the foods that you mentioned and this may be again off topic, but a lot of the foods you mentioned contain lectins, which are an inflammatory protein. Is that something you work with your clients on?

Speaker 2: 35:16

So the lectin people will be the GIPR people like me. So it's not for everybody. Lectins aren't inflammatory for everybody. So for me, absolutely I don't do them because they are inflammatory. If I do, I know it and I'll feel it the next day. So and that's the thing, like that I'm absolutely fine with dairy, I'm absolutely fine with gluten. My genes say it, I knew it, I knew I'd see that. When I saw my genes Wasn't surprised that I react to lectins. So it's very, very individual.

Speaker 1: 35:51

Yeah, and you know, like you said with doing the IgG testing, is that it is something that we do in our office on some clients. We don't test everybody, but we may do the IgG testing. And the interesting thing is the cross reactivity that you can have to certain foods. So you know, if gluten didn't show up and rice did show up, well, what other foods still bother you because of the family that they are in. With rice, that can increase these inflammatory markers and turn the genes on that you were talking about. Exactly, yeah, absolutely. Wow, this is all. Yeah, we have to look, like you said, in so many different areas we can't just focus on one thing, but ultimately, understanding the genes and knowing how to turn those genes on and off, what can we do to reduce the internal inflammation is going to be a key component.

Speaker 2: 36:43

It's absolutely so key to arthritis, but to also every, almost every disease, because, as I say, stress and inflammation underlie everything and it's projected that our inflammatory load is going to get 30% worse than it is. For instance, you know, walking around in LA and I love LA, don't get me wrong but for three months just walking around increases your interleukin six above normal levels because of the amount of pollution, wow, wow. So it's everywhere. So what? We would need that glutathione to mop that up and out. Sure, you know there's another great supplement called NEM, natural egg shell membrane, which is a really wonderful component for rebuilding collagen as well, outside of direct collagen, and also has an anti-inflammatory effect too. Amazing for arthritis. And then keeping all of the tissues around the joints hydrated, loose, you know, don't let your muscles get to this, to where your joints are contorted. Make sure all of your tissues are hydrated, all of those basics as well. So getting your regular chiropractic treatment, your regular massage therapy, your regular body tuning we tune our cars Right.

Speaker 1: 38:00

And we tune our body, yep, and you put the high octane gas in your car. Why not put that in your body too? Right, exactly, exactly. You know hydration is a key factor. Strengthening the muscles around the joint is a key factor, getting the rest and recovery to regenerate the healthy cells, to rebuild that collagen, as you mentioned, so that we are actually allowing a recovery time of our joints, watching for the inflammatory foods and really figuring out what are the inflammatory foods for your body. Because, again, you are different than me, absolutely. You are both genes for ciliac disease. I know gluten is a no for you Exactly.

Speaker 1: 38:42

Whereas for you it's not the key, it's actually fine. Yes, and, like you said, also figuring out the right types of exercise. So me, you know, like you, I'm more of an endurance type athlete, but I also carry the genes for strength training, so I'm able to do both, as opposed to I do not carry the genes for interval training.

Speaker 2: 39:02

Yes, no, exactly. And you know sometimes when, when you see it a lot of the times with our patients, they know that they react poorly to something. They know they shouldn't be doing something, but they don't want to stop doing it. Sure. So when you see it in your genes, it's like look, you have the choice here. This is what you're doing to your body. We have the proof here, right. So because they'll toss off, why is it inflamed? Because I didn't sleep that night or I ate something salty the day? We'll find a reason to do what we want to do, but when it's right in front of you, it makes sticking to something a lot easier.

Speaker 1: 39:45

Absolutely the objective data. You have to have it and finding somebody to hold you accountable to that. You know, a lot of times we can be so successful in so many areas. There's always one area of our life that we really would benefit from having someone else to hold us accountable, and that's. That's what coaches are there for and guides are there for 100%. Well, thank you so much, Dr Kendall Reed, for coming on this podcast. I you know I just loved being able to talk with you and talk to other functional medicine providers. This was a ton of great information. Regarding arthritis, just knowing that it's not always and typically not directed directly related to the exercise, and even if our genes are impacting us, it doesn't mean that it has to be that way. We have the ability to turn these genes on and off with putting that high octane gas in our body.

Speaker 2: 40:39

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 40:40

And allowing the rest time, so I appreciate it, and we will be able to link the information for Dr Penny Kendall Reed on the show notes, so her website will be able to link the genetic site that she has. As far as being able to enter the 23 and me will comment on the supplements that were recommended, we do, in our office, carry pure encapsulations products, so a lot of the ones you mentioned we have access to. So this was wonderful. Thank you all for joining the Berman method podcast. We will be back next week, next Monday. Have a wonderful week and don't forget to subscribe, call us, comment or reach out with any questions or concerns. Thanks so much. Thank you, have a great day.

Speaker 1: 41:26

And now, thank you for subscribing on your social media and podcast platforms to the Berman method Dr Jake Berman with Berman physical therapy and Jenny Berman, physician assistant, with Berman health and wellness. You can find more information on our website wwwbermanptcom for physical therapy. Berman ptcom forward slash wellness for the health and wellness. You can also find us on social media Facebook, instagram and on your podcast platform, so be sure to follow us, like us, subscribe to us and, if you would like any further information, definitely visit our website and reach out to us. You may also find our free reports on the websites as well, where you can download this free information for yourself. Have a great day.