Wellness Inspired Podcast
Real conversations. Real-life wellness.
Hosted by Sheri Davidson, a licensed acupuncturist and certified wellness coach, the Wellness Inspired Podcast explores the messy, meaningful, and often unexpected path to feeling well—and staying well—in a world that constantly demands more.
Wellness Inspired Podcast
Love Much, Heal Deep: Spiritual Direction, Animal Communication + Wellness | Keveny Evanne Avila
Keveney Evanne Avila, JD, is a spiritual director, animal communicator, and author. With compassion, truth, and humility, Keveney supports spiritual seekers as they confront their shadow selves, discover their divinity, fulfill their unique purpose, and radically serve others.
In a story of wreak to wellness, this conversation explores Keveney's journey from being a corporate lawyer to remembering the mysticism and wonder of her childhood that inspires the work she does with people and animals today.
Website: https://www.keveneyevanne.com
Book: Lawyer. Lies and Labradors
Link to Divine Feminine Workshops and dates: www.KeveneyEvanne.com/WildLove
Animal Communication Workshops: www.KeveneyEvanne.com
Veterinary Chiropractic & Rehabilitation Clinic: https://www.vetchiroandrehab.com
Hi, everyone. You are listening to the Wellness Inspired Podcast. I'm your host, Sherri Davidson, and I am super excited to be here with you today. This is the first episode of this podcast, and I'm so glad you're here. A little bit about the podcast before we jump into the first episode. The foundation of this podcast is to inspire the art of wellness. of self-preservation. This can be defined as wellness, wellbeing, health, self-care, or loving yourself. I know that sounds cliche, but think about something you love. You want to see it grow. You nourish it. You care for it. You want to see it expand and be the best that it can be. This could be a kid. could be a significant other. It could be a dog, a cat, a bird, the planet, it could be your business. But think about that thing that you hold close to your heart. You want the best for it. You want to give it the guidance and support it needs to flourish and thrive. And I hope this podcast inspires you to cultivate awareness around your wellness and make choices to live your best healthiest life. The Global Wellness Institute defines wellness as the active pursuit of activities, choices, and lifestyles that lead to a state of holistic health. And I truly believe with all my heart that most people are sincere when they say they want to live a healthier life, but we get stuck in old patterns and belief systems. It's hard to break the patterns and shift our belief systems. Change is hard. Think about a habit you want to change but struggle with. Why do you think it is so hard to change that habit? I'll give you two main reasons. One, it serves a purpose in some way in your life. It fulfills you. And two, you have made it part of your default system through repetition. This default system is your subconscious mind. That's where all your habits live. And this is where most people operate over 50% of the time. They're on autopilot, living out their habits and belief systems over and over again. And sometimes all we need is a little guidance, support, love, and community to make sustainable change. Through monologues, conversations, and interviews, my goal is to inspire you in achieving a higher level of well-being and performance in your life. I will be interviewing experts in the health and wellness field, athletes, entrepreneurs, animal lovers, spiritual teachers, and people who have inspiring health and wellness stories. I have brainstormed over 65 topics and ideas on health and wellness, and I can't wait to share them with you. The first episode is on spiritual direction and animal communication with Keveny Evans of Love Much. Coming up in the next couple of weeks is The Glorious Gut Biome with Shauna Tatum and and financial wellness with Soledad Tanner of STC Financial Consulting. I am stoked to see where all this goes. I hope you join our community and get the inspiration you need to live a wellness lifestyle on the Wellness Inspired Podcast. Please subscribe to the Wellness Inspired Podcast so you don't miss out on a new episode. And please share the podcast with family and friends. If you like what you hear, please give me a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcast. It helps others find me as well. You can also keep up with me on Instagram at wellness inspired and Facebook at the wellness inspired podcast to receive wellness inspiration in your inbox, sign up for the mailing list at wellness inspired podcast.com. I love hearing from you too. Your ideas, suggestions, and feedback are important to me. Please contact me at sheri, S-H-E-R-I, at wellnessinspiredpodcast.com. Let's do this. My first guest is Keveni Eben Avila. She is a spiritual director, animal communicator, author, and friend. With compassion, truth, and humility, Keveni supports spiritual seekers as they confront their shadow selves, discover their divinity, and fulfill their unique purpose, and radically serve others. She works with clients privately and in groups and holds workshops and retreats throughout the United States. She is also well known for her animal communication and healing work with animals. She has appeared on O Magazine, Fox, Elephant Journal, and Thrive Global. I love what Keveny does, spiritual direction and animal communication. She helps a lot of people and animals live their best lives. But I also love her journey and how she got here. Many times our paths are not so clear to us, but are always shown to us if we're paying attention. The next step is to take action. Prior to 2017, Keveny practiced corporate law. And one morning, her beloved Labrador retriever had multiple seizures. Her dog was a catalyst to change. It changed her path from law to spiritual direction and animal communication. That's all I will say here. I will let Keveny tell her story. So let's jump in. Hi, Keveny. Hey, Sherry. How are you? I'm doing well this morning. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming and spending the morning with me. It is raining outside. Yes, thundering. So you guys will probably hear some of that in the background. But yeah, thanks for coming. We met, I guess, two years ago. Yeah, about that. I think January. Well, I think I met you in January, maybe right before 2020. I think I met you because I came to one of the networking meetings when I was thinking about joining. Yes. But yeah, so Keven and I met at a networking meeting. event or group. And I remember when you were one of the first presentations that I saw. I think I was the first for the group. I think it was either you or Gabe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And when I saw your presentation and heard your story, especially about how much you loved animals, I was like, yeah, we're going to be friends. Yeah. So I really appreciate you coming here. And You have a book called Lawyers, Lies, and Labradors. I do. Yeah. I launched that in, let's see, January of 2020, so right before the world changed. Yes. Yes. Well, I started reading it. I have to say I haven't finished it, but I've really enjoyed what I have read, and it is your story. It's kind of like rags to riches, but wreck to wellness. Yes. Yeah. Very much. I always... I practiced law for 10 years prior to having my own business, and I always say I gave corporate 10 years and 100 pounds, so I was definitely wrecked when I left corporate. Yeah, and you mention in your book how you had love, money, and success, but you were filled with anger, unhappiness, you were unhealthy, and the catalyst to change was your dog. It was, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, one of my– she was a Labrador, Great Pyrenees mix. And one night she had five massive seizures early, early in the morning. And I saw– I knew with every cell in my being what was going to happen. I saw the entire day play out. I knew what the vets were going to tell us, which was to put her down. And I just knew that that wasn't it and that she was taking on my stress, my frustration, my husband's. And I knew if I took her home and did what I did when I was little, which is play with energy– that she would be okay. Yeah, and she was. And she was, yeah. She never had another seizure and she lived another year and a half to be 11 or 12. That's amazing. That's such a great story. And dogs just play such a huge part in my life. And I think they are so healing for us. And we just have this love for them that will do anything for them. So for her to make... To be the catalyst. I mean, that's huge because it changed her whole life. Yeah. I saw myself going downhill. I saw the stress. I saw the frustration, the cortisol, all the things. I wasn't willing to change my life, so to speak, for myself, but I would do anything to save her. Yeah. That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Well, I think it was a very courageous move to step away from law, many people would not do that because of all the fears that they might have, whether it's stability, money, kids, college, you know, they're familiar with their current situation. So I think it takes a lot of courage to do that. So that shift that you made was you got into or studied spiritual direction as well as animal communication and healing. Yeah, I started– I've always been interested in alternative herbal remedies and natural health and like you do acupuncture. And I've always had access to sort of the spiritual world and the energy world. And so I had taken some little Reiki classes here and there, things in the past. But I really– I dove into lots of different modalities. I started combining my own method of healing– that I use as a little kiddo playing with energy with some more structured modalities and found my own, you know, way to work with people and animals. Yeah. So tell, um, tell our listeners a little bit about your, your backstory when you were a kid. Cause I remember that was in your presentation and it's in your book. Yeah. I, I saw energy. I thought that I could heal animals. I would, I had a border Collie mutt mix, uh, as a kid and I, uh, would line up my doll babies and my stuffed animals. And I would send Maggie pictures of a certain stuffed animal or certain doll. And I noticed that she would go and she would get that stuffed animal or she would get that doll. And of course, the dog. Yeah. Of course, as a kid, I thought I was like, you know, magic. Um, really, she was just a very receptive student. And, but I realized that we can communicate with animals. Yeah. And so I, um, I had a friend who had horses, and so I got really interested in working with them. And really, I've always seen animals as healers, especially horses and dogs. And I've always been interested in plants. As a kid, I would pick different plants. or if my friend had a tummy ache or couldn't sleep, I'd say, oh, you know, take a dandelion or do this. And then as I got older, I realized, okay, this knowledge is coming from somewhere. Yeah. Because I would read a book and it would say the same thing that I remember as a kid. So I'm very connected to that. ancestors and have some Native American lineage. So I always, as a kid, I always thought I was a medicine woman. So I like to think that some of that's coming through me. Do you know, I had somebody tell me when I first moved back to Houston from Austin, she was, I don't remember what she, I'm not sure like what she called herself, but she did energy work. And she told me that I was a medicine woman. from a very long time ago and that I was very mad because they burned all my herb books. I was like, well, that's interesting because I love herbs. I probably love herbs more than I love the acupuncture, although I love acupuncture. But that's what got me into traditional Chinese medicine. So anyways, I just thought about that. I haven't thought about that in a long time. Yeah, I love herbs and flowers. I mean, I've been using essential oils for over 25 years. The power. Yeah. There's so much power in there. Don't take pharmaceuticals really ever. So they just, and I think, you know, whether it's a lot of it's belief, I believe more in the herbs and the oils. So they, I have a better response with them. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Well, so tell me and our listeners about spiritual direction and what that is. I think, cause it could be, it's a very broad term. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, For a while, I was more of in the coaching. I mean, it's similar to coaching. However... You did lifestyle. Was it lifestyle coaching? Prosperity mentoring, helping people. What I did was I helped a lot of people that were in my position that were in corporate that were afraid to leave their salary. I helped them monetize their passion and get out of corporate and keep their paycheck and be successful, which I was... Good at it and successful, but it wasn't my passion. It wasn't why I left corporate. I really wanted to focus more on the healing, whether it's animals or people, and also with the spiritual direction or spiritual companionship is what I rebranded earlier this year. And so with my new brand, as opposed to calling myself a coach. Love Much. Yeah, Love Much. I love that name. Yeah, there's a good story to that. We must hear. Yeah, so I just, I wanted to be less of, I didn't want people to come to me wanting the answers. I wanted to help them find the answers within themselves. And so spiritual companionship or spiritual direction is really about helping others to navigate and explore their connection with the divine, whether that's God, universe, source, whatever their word is, wherever background they come from, but helping to navigate the dark nights and the triumphs and the mystery and all of that. And really now I help a lot of people who have always been my favorite clients are people that have created a lot of success in their career, but now they're at a point where they're wanting to serve at a higher level or have a give back. or focus more on their own spiritual journey and what they're passionate about from a service perspective, more than a monetary perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Why
SPEAKER_00:do you think that comes later in life? You think you've fulfilled all these different levels or you've gotten to a certain point and then you just want to... Yeah, I think, I mean, I have some friends that are astrologers. I'm not, that's not my thing, but... There's some things to say with your Saturn return. Certain things happen every 30 years. And when you get into the 60s, there's some reasons for it. I think, too, especially now in the world that we live in, people are so focused on paying bills and paying back school loans and just dealing with the day-to-day stuff that a lot of us feel like we don't have the time or the space or the energy to put into something higher, maybe.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it always seems to come with age, you know. And so as a health coach, we talk about the pillars of health and wellness. And spirituality is one of them, right? Because we look at things from a very holistic perspective. And it's so important to feel that connection to something bigger, whatever. Absolutely. Whatever you call that. Yeah. But it does seem to be something that people focus more on. And I think things are changing because I do see some of the younger generations more focused on spirituality. Maybe not so much religion, but spirituality. But it definitely seems to come at an older age. So I find that very interesting. I think, too, it's coming in a different way now with how the world has changed over the last couple of years. I've never resonated with... a lot of organized religion. I've never resonated with the new age movement. I've always kind of been in this sort of mystical middle. I resonate with a lot of old ancient teachings, philosophies, religions. But I think that I feel like the purpose of the last two years from a spiritual perspective is really to have us all go internal, right? It's a time where we all need to sort of sit with our own shadows. And a lot of people are focusing on The shadow of the world or other people's pointing fingers. A lot of people have a hard time with sitting and going internal. And that is what you do is help people through that process. I say, and this is my client's words kind of being mirrored back to me, but helping people navigate their spiritual ruts and dark nights. So those really... you know, the times that seem the darkest and the heaviest, there's so much, you know, it's the death before the rebirth. It's the mystical heartbreak. Um, yeah. Yeah. So that's a lot of it. And so how do you, this is kind of an obvious question, but I want to hear your answer. Um, so I, you know, I, like I was just talking about the spirituality as a pillar of health and wellness. How do you see that playing into people's health and wellness, past experiences, some past clients, obviously you don't have to say their names, but just to give people an idea and myself, like what it is, like what kind of things you are sitting with and guiding them through or navigating them through that process. Cause I think it's, uh, to hear it, like I help guide people through those dark nights. I get it, but it's still a little not tangible, not tangible. Thank you. Yeah. I think, I mean, so, so common themes, I would say, you know, people come to me sometimes when they've received a, you know, terminal diagnosis, right. Or, um, they're struggling with some sort of chronic issue. And so it's very heavy and it's hard. And so I help them, um, to come to you know first decide okay do you want to take this on right and sometimes we have to take certain parts of it on because we have we're experiencing it but really finding a way to navigate through that illness or that diagnosis and and hopefully come out on the other side and it's also you know people maybe that are going through you know, a divorce or an empty nest or like something has changed. Some life circumstance has caused them to be sad or to be, you know, in just not a great place, especially, you know, there's a lot of things that we can choose to latch onto that can make us unhappy right now. So sometimes it's really just helping people navigate the time that we're living in. And I think too, a lot of times people that have grown up, with certain beliefs, whether they're religious or philosophical or whatever we're sort of imprinted with, unraveling those and getting to what is true for you or what have you taken on from society or from other parents, religions, whatever. And helping to sort of, you know, rebuild their beliefs, figure out what's important. It's almost like recreating yourself after some event. Because I think people do get stuck when they have a major life change. Whether, like you said, it's a divorce or empty nesters or what we're going through today. I do coaching for University of North Carolina for the students. And one of the common themes right now is obviously COVID. And how they... are responding to that experience being in college. And it's hard. It's very hard. A lot of them feel isolated and alone. So to help navigate, I don't know how that would look to navigate it from a spiritual perspective, but it'll be interesting to see the outcome in the long term. And I think it's really easy. We've gotten into this. If you look at even in like the psychology, like the happiness movement and a lot of the new age teachings, I call it love light and clueless sometimes. But it's very easy to think that we're being spiritual because we only focus on the positive and we don't want to feel the negative emotions. And really, that's not what the mystical teachings teach us at all, right? The heart breaks over and over again and you have to feel it. Yeah. The pain and the suffering of the collective of your own stuff in order to really have the rebirth. Yeah. And so there's so many people walking around being happy and making it wrong if they're sad and just trying to, you know, living this very, um, I call it kind of shallow spirituality. Yeah. I mean, I think there is some positive, I know exactly what you're talking about. Um, cause I've thought the same thing, like it's okay to be sad. We have to be sad sometimes. Right. And even Buddha talks about struggles. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So for me, and I think this is part of the reason why I do a lot of my ultra marathons is it's a struggle that I go through that I appreciate when I get to the end. Sure. Or even if I don't, you know, if I don't, there's been one race where I didn't and I trained for a year and, um, but just to have that humility and that just failure running is very humbling. Yes. It's a very humbling thing to do, but yeah, I mean, I think that I do love the happiness movement. But I also feel like it's a little misleading. Yeah, I think we've taken a lot of the really awesome, deep teachings that I focus on. I study whether it's Sufi mystics and Christian mystics and saints and sages and all of it. There's a common thread in all philosophies and all religions. Like in the Christian mysticism, we might talk about St. John of the Cross, the dark night of the soul, right? And there's a purpose for that. It's the phoenix rising. It's the rebirth. And so helping people to see that the greatest gift is sometimes in that darkness. And when we're so close to greatness, we're so close to divine, whatever your word is, we're often blinded by the light, right? So we have to move through the darkness to get to the other side.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You can't have the light without the dark. Yeah. And so many, so many people right now, and I mean, not right now, I say right now, but you know, modern days, you know, when we focus on, everyone else being wrong, everyone else being the enemy, we become the enemy, right? Because when we focus on evil and we give so much power to it, oftentimes we end up in anger and judgment and self-righteousness, which is, to me, the opposite of spirituality, faith, love, God, whatever your word. The yin-yang symbol in traditional Chinese medicine is the light and the dark, right? And then you have the The yin, which is the dark, is the substance. It's tangible, and it's dark, right? But it's nurturing as well. And then you have the yang, which is the white, and it's action. It's the light. It's a function instead of like when we talk about the organ, we have the organ, which is the yin, and then you have the function of that organ, which is the yang. But then in each one, you have a little bit of the dark within the light because they start to transform into each other. And there's a whole philosophy. And Chinese medicine is all based on that. Like that simple sign can be so complex. Yeah. It reminds me a lot of the divine feminine, right? So whether you look at like the Hindu goddess Kali or you look at, um, you know, different teachings about, you know, the black Madonna and mother Mary, there's this, we often, I feel that we, much of society has sort of distorted the real, the truth about the divine feminine.
SPEAKER_01:Um,
SPEAKER_00:because there is, there's that all loving unconditional compassion, which is a huge part of it, but there's also that ferociousness and that protection and that fierce and that, that darkness. Right. Um, and whether you call it feminine, masculine, you know, can show up in a lot of different containers, but it's really about the, the integration of both. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. You can't have one without the other. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and the, the, the, the, the yin is actually the, is the feminine in Chinese medicine. The yang is the melt. Yeah. It's the, the action. There's so much power. If we can embrace the divine feminine in the way that, So you're taking, you're saying the divine feminine, cause I don't know much about that. Uh, is the, the, like if we were going to relate that to the yin and the yang would be all in one, it wouldn't be separate. Is that what you were saying? I mean, I think there's both in the divine feminine, the way I teach, right? There's, We have the substance, we have the power, we have the death, and we also have the compassion and the love and the rebirth in both the divine feminine and the divine masculine. We tend to separate it in our Western society. So yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, integrating. I mean, you could say divine feminine, divine masculine, but I think both have both, right? Yeah, the yin within the yang and the yang within the yin. I love it. And you have workshops on that. I do. Yes, I have. I do day workshops. So they're at my studio here in Houston. And it's usually a Friday evening and then all day Saturday and Sunday. And then I also do longer overnight retreats, destination retreats. And I know you have one in Galveston. Was that the Divine Feminine one you had? I have the Divine Feminine, the first Divine Feminine one. I'm not sure if this will launch before then or not. But November 5th, 6th and 7th. I have one here. That's a day retreat at the studio. That's on, it's called wild love. Okay. And it's really about embodying the ferociousness as well as the merciful nature of the divine feminine. And yeah, so November 5th, 6th and 7th, 5th, 6th and 7th. Okay. I'm going to try and launch this podcast in October.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:But if not, I will put the, I'll put the link in the show notes and, And then because would that be the same link if you did a workshop? Yeah, the Divine Feminine workshops will always be the same link. I'll just update the times because I am going to do one this fall and then I'm also going to do one probably in January and maybe once a quarter. Okay. So I'll put that out. We'll put the link in the show notes just in case I don't get it. Yeah, you can always try the next one. Yeah, and you can try the next one. So– I think that's so awesome. And your book, you said you were rewriting your book? I am. I've had time to sit with it now. It was funny. I gave it to my husband right before it went to print, and I said, speak now, forever hold your peace. And when it came out in an actual book, he said, oh, I probably should have read it more closely. So I'm tweaking a few things, taking out a few pieces that aren't really– I feel like I worked through some of my stuff in the book. And now it really doesn't have the energy on me that it did. So taking out some stuff, also incorporating how my business has changed because the book is very heavily focused on the prosperity mentoring as well as the animals. The animals has always been with me. But yeah, I'm going to, and I'm actually, I may change the title. I'm going to relaunch because I had had a national book tour planned for 2020, which got canceled, didn't happen. So yeah, But I want to, I want to relaunch it and do the tour and, you know, travel the country and have fun with it. Yeah. So when did you say it was going to launch? Do you have? I don't know. We'll see. You'll see. Hopefully sometime next year. Yeah. Yeah. 2022. That's going to be the year. Yeah. It's going to be a big year. I think for myself as well. Make something happen. It's time for some big changes. It's time for some big changes and big trips. I think I have been in Houston for, well, I love Houston. It's my home. But I haven't really traveled anywhere. I haven't taken any. In 2017, I told myself that once a year I was going to do a big trip. And I have stayed with that commitment until 2020. So now it'll be two years that I haven't done anything. So you need to take two trips or a really, really long one. Oh, I'm planning a really long one. Great. It'll be this time next year. So I hope it all works out. I will be Faroe Islands, Iceland, and Greenland. Oh, wow. That's the plan. I was going to go to Japan, but Japan's not open yet. And I want to start planning something. So Japan will probably be open next year. There's the Komono Kodo Trail that I would really love to do. It's a spiritual... It's a walk. It's a pilgrimage. Uh, but, um, I just want to start planning something and I can't really depend on that right now. Yeah. So yes, but I'll be gone for like a month. That will be awesome. If that's what I missed the most over the last few years is just traveling, traveling for fun. And also, I mean, I, I typically went to San Diego once a quarter for, I have a lot of clients there and friends. And so that's been tough. Did you live in California?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I've never lived in California, but I do have a lot of family there. Yeah. But I'm from Pennsylvania, so most of my family is on the East Coast. Yeah, I remember that. But for some reason, I thought you might have lived in California. Just... Yeah, I seem to get a lot of referrals from there. My very first client was from San Francisco, and she was living in Westview, and I helped her manifest her move back. I mean, I can probably trace half my business back to her, so she's been an awesome referral. Yeah. You just need one, one awesome referral and somebody that believes in you, and that's all it takes. Word of mouth is my jam. Yeah, mine too. Do you have anything else that you want to say about your book or your workshops? You had mentioned the longer retreats too, so I've done some in Galveston, South Padre, Florida. I had a really amazing one planned for– Southern California, which didn't happen last year. So I'm hoping that when that one comes back. Yeah, it will. Those are fun. 2022. Yes. And I wanted to win in Ireland or, or Scotland, or I've, I've studied a lot in the UK. And so I love England and Scotland. And yeah, I got to do one there. Ireland would be beautiful. I did some backpacking and went to Ireland. It was a long time ago, but I do remember doing the ring of Kerry. I do remember that. It was beautiful. Well, let's talk about animals. Sure. Here comes Finn. Right on cue. Right on cue, Finn. Animal communication. I find it fascinating. I do, too, and I do it every day. Yes, and I'm a total believer. I feel like I talk to Finn all the time about, And he talks to me like he's talking to me right now with his eyes. So we talked a little bit about it in the beginning, how you got into it. When you are working with somebody or working with a client, a forepaw client, what are the typical... reasons that people seek you out to communicate with them? Yeah, a lot of times it can be behavioral. It can be a dog that maybe they've rescued or they've adopted recently and there's some thing that they can't figure out what's going on. A lot of times people will go through our traditional trainers and when the normal stuff doesn't work, they'll get referred to me or they'll come to me. Also, I work with a lot of animals who are struggling with some sort of physical or separation anxiety could be emotional, right? Especially now we're animals who've never had separation anxiety or having it because people are going back to work and they've been home for a year. And then some people just are curious. They just like, Oh, I have some questions for my dog. And you know, can you ask them? And I find that, or it can be, Sometimes someone will say, I have two or three dogs, they're not related, and they all have similar health stuff. They all have something going on with their pancreas. Interesting. And so I always... Animals pick up energy in our energetic field before it actually manifests in our physical body a lot of times. And disease, you know this, right? Often is around before we manifest it. And so... So sensitive. They're so sensitive. Yeah. Yeah, they are. And a lot of people– a lot of times people aren't either willing to spend money on themselves or just aren't ready to– that's how it shows up. But really, it's that they're not ready to really look inside and face the stuff. Yeah. But they don't want their animals to be sick. Yeah. So– Humans oftentimes come to me through their animals. It's kind of the tool that helps me access them. They're so healing. Aren't they in so many ways? They are. Especially, I mean, my favorite are horses and dogs, but I work with cats and cows and guinea pigs and the whole nine yards. Guinea pigs. So tell me a funny story. Okay. About a guinea pig? About a guinea pig. I want to know what they think. So I had a client in California and she and her daughter were out of town and her husband was taking care of the guinea pig and they got home and the guinea pig wasn't acting right and they realized the guinea pig wasn't eating. And so she called me and she's somebody who I work with her poodle, I work with her husband, I work with all of them. And so I'm kind of her first line of defense. And she said, what's going on with the piggy? And so I did a like an energetic scan, right? I can, sounds funny, but I can see inside the animal's body, right? And so it was funny because what the piggy showed me was a conveyor belt. And it was like you're putting something on it and it was like, you know, it would be things, I don't know what guinea pigs eat at the time, right? That was my first guinea pig client. I've never had a guinea pig. But it would be like little pellets or little different things. I can't remember what it was. There was, I think, some fruit maybe. And so it was All these things were on this conveyor belt. And then all of a sudden it just stopped. And the guinea pig, like, it was like the possum playing dead, right? The guinea pig showed himself like, you know, like as though he was dead. And I said, you know, what I'm picking up is that when a guinea pig stops eating, it's like a conveyor belt and it's very dangerous and everything stops. And so she said, well, do I need to take him to the emergency vet? And I said, yes. Because sometimes I'll ask and sometimes it's yes, sometimes it's no. And so she took him to the, they call it the exotic vet inn. And the way they explained it was when a guinea pig stopped eating, it's like a conveyor belt. And it has to constantly have input, output, input, output. And if it stops, then the guinea pig was in, I mean, he was critical at that point. So that was kind of a fun little story.
SPEAKER_01:Aww.
SPEAKER_00:So it really does play a part in the health and well-being of the owner as well as the animal. Because when we work on the human stuff, a lot of times the animal stuff goes away. And the other thing, too, is I work with a lot of end-of-life situations. So people that are wondering, does the animal want assistance? Does the animal want to be euthanized? Are they suffering? Give us a sign. And it's always, I mean, the animals give the craziest, like I had a cat that showed me this, it was like this solid white, very sterile room and this massive black shiny surface. And the cat was like laid out on the top of the surface. And I described it to the client and she said, well, we have a white kind of like a museum type room with a baby grand. And I said, well, the cat, when the cat is ready to be transitioned, he's going or she's going to go and lay on top of the piano and the person's like oh no the cat knows not to get on the piano the cat's not to claw the whole nine yards sure enough one day they walked from they walked in and the cat was brought out on the piano and had gone downhill quite a bit over the last couple days so I asked for signs and it's always something that they're like the they're never going to do that. And then sure enough, they'll do it. Well, I wish I knew you when Jack was around. He was, he was 17. And I think there was really no question whether it was his time because he was in kidney failure. And I had three vets that had to tell me it's time, you know, but, but it would have been kind of nice to see like what he was like, if he had any messages or anything. Well, even with end of life and we can still see, Just because he's gone doesn't mean we can't. But even end of life, I find animals, they hold on to fulfill, I call it a soul contract, but to fulfill some sort of purpose in the owner's life. And so sometimes there's a lesson, especially if a dog or a cat or a horse is just holding on and on and on. I can go in and help. They'll show me. Pictures from different times, oftentimes the person's life. You know, when I do this every day and I'm like, where does this happen? Where does this come from? Right. It's still kind of mystery. Yeah. But they'll show me things or sometimes different visitors will come in and help to understand what closure needs to happen. So it's very healing. Yeah. obviously puts the animal at peace, but it's very healing for the human too. That's interesting. Cause I still think Jack's around. I think I told you, well, you know that. Yeah. Cause, um, every time I, and maybe it's me still holding onto him because every time I see a picture of him, I acknowledge him and I tell him I love him and he's missed. And then I go on with my day. Uh, and, um, but I don't know that might be, it's probably both of us. Sure. We're hanging on. Um, I see him as one of my protectors. So, uh, yeah, And I totally think animals can be like your guardian angels and kind of watch over you. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them are kind of like people talk about like spirit guides or departed loved ones. You know, I always say some people are here for a reason, a season, and then some are, I call them like life guides. Yeah. You know, they're, they're a part of us. Yeah. Whether it's an earth guide or a departed loved one or an animal. Yeah. They're just kind of with us forever. Yeah. How I feel about Jack and Finn will be that way too. I get, I get very attached. I mean, which I'm sure like many people do, but they really are like, my mom calls Finn, my firstborn. She's like, well, Jack is really your firstborn, but Finn's really, finn is your first born i was like yeah i know yeah well i have one of the dogs i have now kinley she was a rescue and she we weren't really even thinking about getting another dog and she came in a few months after my grandma passed and my grandma was my person um and so she totally came in as a heart healer my husband jokes and says when she decides to pick out a new sweater that's what we call it when they cross over the rainbow bridge she said He goes, am I going to have to put you down too? But we're just– I love all my dogs, right? I'm connected to all of them. But, I mean, she and I are just like codependent almost. Him and I are– I definitely think that. And, you know, he's a rescue. And not in my wildest dreams would I have– I didn't even think about getting a dog that would run with me, right, and enjoy running so much. But he loves it. Like he is like– The best trail dog. He does. I see pictures and he's all into it. He's so happy. And you know, he was dealing with, um, some, uh, some, he was, well, he was diagnosed with intervertebral disc disease a few years ago. And now that he's getting older, we would hit the trails. And then afterwards he would just be in a lot of pain. And so I really haven't taken him on the trails a lot because he had a really bad episode in May. And I finally took him to a rehabilitation center. I think I might have told you this. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. It was the best thing I ever did. So he's doing chiropractic adjustments. He's doing cold laser therapy. He's doing aqua therapy. Dr. Mickelson, she does not think that it is the disc disease, which for us, I thought I was at a point of acceptance. I was looking at ramps for the bed because it had moved from his neck to his hips and that he, he just, he was staying in the episode. Like normally he'd be out of an episode in two weeks. And this was the whole month of May. And I was like, okay, Sherry, except, except this is how it is. He's not going on the trails anymore. And I took him there and she just, she turned in a snap, turned our whole world around.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_00:it's amazing. She's like, I cannot rule it out. She goes, I do not believe that is what it is. He's been doing therapy, and guess what? This past weekend was his first weekend without a leash to run on the trail, which means he runs harder. Right. He can go faster. He can go faster. He can fall behind and sprint to catch up. He'll run in front. And this weekend was his first weekend since May to do that. And he seemed to do okay. Look at him. Yeah, he seems good today. But, you know, he's– I'll do anything for him. And I know some people laugh at me, but hey, I'm an acupuncturist and herbalist and a health coach. So why wouldn't my dog be doing chiropractic adjustments? And she's, she's an acupuncturist as well. And she prefers doing more natural approaches. So she has this, one of the same lines of herbal formulas that I have. Oh, very cool. Yeah. But hey, he's running and hopefully he's, Well, I have our older lab, Kinley, the one that's my person. She's doing hydrotherapy. And, you know, she had an episode, I guess, two weekends ago where she wouldn't even want to stand up. And she's getting up there in the ears. And we took her to the vet. And, of course, they wanted to do muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories and pain and everything.
SPEAKER_01:I
SPEAKER_00:mean, we did that. in the immediate just to kind of get her up for a bit but then we started doing hydrotherapy and she may have a back thing going on it could just be that the puppy pounced on her a little hard yeah But one thing when we went to the hydrotherapist, she said, you know, she's got some muscle loss. And as we're building up the muscle, she's not having a lot of the issues. So it's amazing. I mean, I love Western medicine. And I gave Finn, he was on the protocol, the anti-inflammatories, the muscle relaxers, and the pain meds. But my thought was like, I can't keep him on this. Right, it's not sustainable. Yeah, like, so what are my options? Because he can't, and they didn't have an answer for me. Exactly. So that's when I went on the search and I found the rehabilitation center. And it's just been, so if you ever want that information, I mean, Dr. Mickelson is amazing. Chiropractor, acupuncturist, herbalist. I love always meeting open-minded. Yes, you should. Yeah. A lot of the vets are like, animal communication, what? So it's the Veterinarian Chiropractic Rehabilitation Center, and it's Pearland. Okay. So she works on mainly horses and dogs and cats. There you go. You can do a networking referral and get credit. Well, I'm going to invite her on to the podcast. I would love for her to come on the podcast and talk about alternative therapies as a veterinarian for animals. It would be great contact. Yeah, absolutely. So what else? You do workshops. You do animal communication workshops. I do. I have been. So what did you think? I loved it. Good. I loved it. It was so much fun. And then you actually did a 30-minute, 40-minute session on Finn. Yes. Which was really interesting. So I walked away hearing that Finn wants his voice at the clinic. And because you were like, do you shush him? I was like, no, no, I don't. And I was like, oh, wait a second. At the clinic. At the clinic, I do. Because he likes to let me know when delivery people approach the door. And I'm always shushing him because people are in here trying to relax. So I don't think... he has gained a voice here, but I definitely at home, let him have his voice. But also the other thing that you told me was that he wanted a Tempur-Pedic. Oh yeah. He kept showing the phone, the phone. And so, and it was really funny because after that, I decided to throw some pillows. Well, first, he loves pillows. So at home, he takes over the pillows. He's in the pillows on the sofa. So I decided to take a couple of pillows and put them underneath the padding I had on the floor at home. I think I sent you a picture. And he was just completely passed out for like two hours. He likes his cushion. He's a dog of luxury. Yes. But yeah, so I thought it was super fun. And I try and communicate with him. But I think in that there were two experiences in that workshop that really stick out in my mind. And one of them was the last horse. Do you remember the horse that... What was it? It was the horse that was owned by an Amish family. Okay. A working horse. Yes. And it was the last one. Was it the mom? It was the mom. Okay. Of the baby that we did? Of the baby. And for some reason, I just remember, because I think we went through like maybe six. Sure. Yeah. We practiced on like six different animals. Yeah. Dogs and cats and horses I usually use. And a gorilla. A gorilla. Yeah. Sometimes I pull in a gorilla or an elephant. I think it was from the Houston Zoo. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Or was it, there was a gorilla. Oh, we did. No, we did. Oh my goodness. Coco. Coco, right? Yeah. Coco, the gorilla. So that was, and then we did, we did something. We did an elephant from that. Maybe, maybe that was from the Houston zoo. And, but the horse, there were two, two experiences. One, the horse. Cause I remember on all of those, you know, you walk everybody through what you taught us in the workshop, but the, we were going to connect and I was able to connect with all of them. But for some reason that horse, I could not, I was like, she doesn't want to be talked to. And so you hear it, are hearing the story of the horse made so much sense. And I was like, I got like chills.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. She was, she just never had a lot of human interaction. So she was, yeah, it was really crazy. Cause all I could see was myself standing in front of her saying it's okay. And that, and when you said, when you told us the story, I was like, Oh my gosh. Um, but the other experience I had was the black cat that popped up. Oh yeah. And I was like, I couldn't even connect. Yeah. So I was going to cry. Yeah. Anyway. So, so tell people about your workshop and yeah, it's fun.
UNKNOWN:Um,
SPEAKER_00:It's really fun when you have 13 or 14 people. That was a pretty small one because of all the social distancing and fun stuff. But we have several people. And some people may have played with it a little bit. But most of the times, they're just totally new. They have no background. And so I bring people in, we talk a little bit about the heart to heart connection, we talk about how to connect to the animal, how to connect to the energy, the essence, and then I have just random clients that I've gotten permission to use, and I put them up on a big screen. And so it's just a picture of the animal. And I walk them through the process again. And I usually give a couple questions that we ask every animal. And then we compare notes. And so it's so fun to see. I remember I did one a few years ago. I think we had 14 people. And we would put the animal up. And, you know, 10 people might– we might ask, what's your favorite toy? And 10 people might say yellow duck. Wow. And so it's such confirmation for people that they're connecting to something, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, they're fun. I do them at my studio. I've done some virtual, but I also help people if they want to– if they're not in– I like the live workshops better. But if there are people that want to learn, I can work with them one-on-one and help them to read their own animal. And sometimes it's tricky. So whenever I teach people, I always say you can always come back and I can confirm. Because sometimes we're just so close that it's tricky to– I've had some dogs that, like, I can't disconnect from, and I have others that it's– I'm so– Close to that. Sometimes I don't trust the reading. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about it in meditation. If you do any kind of contemplative meditation that you have to trust the images that you get or the words that you get or the sounds that you get. And it's hard to trust them sometimes, especially when you have so many thoughts coming in. It's hard. But I do. I remember reading. how to navigate through that experience in your workshop, you were saying, trust your first instinct. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I still like sometimes what I get is so crazy that I'm just like, these people are going to think I'm wackadoodle if I tell them. But I found that the more I share the crazy, the things that I find to be like totally out there, they're the messages that resonate the most. And they're like, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I've had really fun stories, especially I have a lot. I work with men and women. And I have, you know, some really fun stories with like attorneys and engineers who I'm pretty sure their wife held a gun to their head to come. And then like I see a specific animal. There was one guy. He was a he was a CPA and a CPA and a JD. So it was like forensic accounting and a lawyer. And he came in and the first thing I kept hearing like Gigi, Gigi, Gigi. And I saw this orange cat and I said, okay, I'm just going to go with it. And he laughed and he said, oh my gosh, you really are a witch. What do you want me to do? And he was like, that was a cat that he had. And he said on his way to my office, he said, all right guys, if this lady can help me, I want to see Gigi. And he kind of like put it out into the universe as like a dare almost. And sure enough, She popped in and then he became my best student, you know. But it was funny because I had to, you know, trust my gut and have the confidence to just, you know, let it land where it lands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to trust that. You know, I know what you're talking about because I go through that here sometimes. I treat a lot of men and women, but a lot of times the men come because of their wife or their girlfriend. And then it's fun to see them flip roles. you know, and become a believer. So that's awesome. And it's fun. I did, um, I've, I've done a few more like adolescence lately, um, readings with them and it's, it's gotta be something with me. Right. So I have less of a, not that I ever have a filter, but I, it's, you know, they're more receptive because they're younger. They haven't gone through as many years of what we've all gone through. And so I found with, with this girl, the messages were just like so clear and so fast. And, um, I noticed like without– sometimes, you know, if you get in your own head, you can try to make the messages make sense. And that's when you'll say– you'll tell something to somebody and they're like, yeah, that doesn't resonate. And it's because I put some sort of filter on it. Yeah. And so it was a really good lesson for me when I just was working with a kiddo and had less of a human stuff, my human stuff going on. It was confirmation of how fast it does come in. Yeah. And we're not trying to make it something. Which– Most of the time we are. Yeah. I think that's a big skill to be able to do that. I mean, just in everyday life, right? Not to kind of put your spin on it, but that's really hard to do. And I think that's why it's easier with the animals because, I mean, everything's crazy that comes with the animals, right? Like I don't need to try to filter it because they're obviously open to it if they've come and... So that's why I love the animal stuff so much. So I remember you telling us, I don't know if it was in your workshop or if it was just in another conversation one day, but you were talking about racehorses. And I don't think it was you, but I think it was maybe your teacher that she works with racehorses a lot because they stop running. Yeah, when I left corporate, I thought maybe I should take some sort of actual animal communication course to see what this is about. And so I found a world-renowned animal communicator that was doing a class. And so I went to that. I think it was like a day or two. And she has been called in for different Olympic athletes, horses. And she said... when she goes to talk to the horse, it might be like this, this particular horse is favored to win and there's no, you know, just totally favored. And then maybe a week or two days before the competition, they just stopped training and they're kind of just, the horses are just like, I'm done. Right. And they're just moseying around. Um, and she'll go in and she, you know, the horse will just say, it's not my turn to win. That's so, and, and oftentimes the horse would show her another horse and it would be like a horse that, They're like, yeah, that horse is running, but he doesn't stand a chance. And then sure enough, that horse would win. And so someone asked her, do you bet on the horses? I know, that was my question too. And, you know, she said, no, that would be out of integrity, right? And luckily, I don't think, I don't know, maybe, I don't know if people hire her and then you, I don't know. She definitely doesn't encourage that. But it's, yeah, it's interesting because they kind of, And it's funny because if you watch, like, horse races, oftentimes they're all running, running, running, running. And then it's like they all just kind of hang back and let one go forward. I'm going to have to watch. And they're super, I mean, I find horses to be the most telepathic creatures. And horses and dogs, heart healers. So they often come into people's lives when there's been something that needs to be healed. Yeah. I believe that. I totally believe that because I know that Finn has... He came into my life for a reason. And he has done a very good job. We both need each other. So I believe that. And I love horses. I've never really been around them. But I find them amazing and powerful and beautiful. There is nothing. I will start to cry if I see a pack of horses or a herd of horses running, sprinting across an open field. I don't know what that is for me, but it's just, there's something about it that I just, I love. Uh, and, when I went to Iceland a couple of years ago, I rode a Icelandic horse and her name was star. Oh, wow. And star. I just, I loved her. I just wanted to bring her home. Yeah. I mean, their, their energy container is just massive. It's huge. Yes. And I just, she was so sweet and so shy. Um, Uh, but very gentle. And, um, yeah, I just wanted to wrap her up and they do, they have this gentle power and presence and it's so huge. We're so soft. Yeah. I love it. Well, when are your next, uh, workshops for animal communication? I don't have any on the calendar right now, but I'll probably do some. Um, I usually do them like once a quarter.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's what I try to do under normal circumstances. So I'll probably do one, uh, early 2022. Yeah. So I have to ask you a question. So why are you drawn to Labradors? Because are all your dogs Labradors? So growing up, I had– my first dog was the Border Collie mix that my dad had that was born a few months before me. So I really like my first 14 years of life. I'm an only child, so she was my thing. And then my mom wanted to get smaller animals that didn't shed. So we had like Shih Tzus and Yorkies. And then in– college I've always just loved labs like just their energy they're they're loyal they're fun um they tire a little more easily even though they're super hyper uh and so I got my first Labrador in college and I had her in law school with me in Rhode Island and then I've had two more well lab mixes rescues and now we have a golden retriever a white golden retriever
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:I thought the energies would be very similar with a golden and the lab and they are, and they aren't the goldens are. Well, at least, I mean, I think Sophie's exceptional because she's my husband's dog and they take on the energy of their owners. So there's something there, but she's the most stubborn and willful dog more so than the great Pyrenees. Um, yeah. And so I, I just labs are just, I mean, they're just like a big ball of love. And I do think, I mean, there's a reason that certain dogs are used as service dogs, as medical dogs. Yeah. And labs are used a lot for service dogs. And yeah. Well, I've always been really drawn to terriers. So when I was really young, my dad, and yes, this is when encyclopedias were actually a thing and you would flip through them. But my dad wanted me to pick out a dog. And so I picked out a West Highland terrier. And they're white terriers, all white, small. My dad ended up getting one. And I grew up with Westies because of me. But the dog ended up being my dad's dog and not my dog. And they'll tell you because I got mad at the dog a lot. Because it was always, like, biting my hair. And it was being a dog. Sure. But my dad and the dogs always bonded. But when I, Finn is a terrier mix, he's a rescue and a terrier mix, but I'm still drawn to that. I don't know what it is. And they say that you're, well, they always say you look like your dog. Yeah, I've definitely heard that. I've seen that. And it's funny because I always remember that because Finn, I won't, he has this goatee, you know, his beard. I never cut it. And people say he looks like an old man. So some people will say, you look exactly like your dog. And I'm like, old man. And I think too, I think sometimes it's that we have a similar energy to our dog because we draw them in. And so our way of communicating that as a human is like, Oh, you look like your dog, but they might actually pick me up on the energy. That makes sense. And I could see it. Cause you're like, you, you come across as like a busy, like to run. You're not just sitting, you know, interiors are very busy. And so I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. And it turns out he loves trails like me. So, um, yeah, we're a good match. Yeah. And he's pretty chill. Yeah. Except for when the delivery people come.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's funny. I, uh, I have, if I had to look at a, uh, breed of dog that I see the most. It would definitely be poodles. Standard poodles. I have a lot of standard poodle clients. Do you think that's because of your clients? I have a lot of theories on that. But it's interesting because I've always kind of felt like standard poodles are a little bit otherworldly. And I would say 9 out of 10 people that come to me with a standard poodle, one of the first things they say is, well, I'm an alien. And so it's really funny. I mean, I'm not saying that they're an alien. Right, right. But they associate with something otherworldly, and then they pull in this poodle. And some of the pictures, I mean, I have poodle clients that literally walk on two feet. Like, they just walk around on two feet. Oh, my gosh. And interesting things. And they're tall. Yeah. And sometimes they take a picture of them walking and it looks like there's like lasers on their back. It's really funny. But I definitely have a lot of– and it's always funny because it's always people that have very proper standard poodles that they've paid a lot of money for that have gone to the best trainers. And then they are doing something just totally like– A behavior. Yeah. Yeah. Like just, you know, tackling women to the ground and humping them. Things that are just not acceptable in their world. And so it's always fun to. Was that a standard poodle you took a picture with in California? You stole. It was. Yeah. Somebody's dog. But yeah. Yeah. And it was funny because I was doing a photo shoot in San Diego and I'm like, I need a dog. And the girl that was doing the shoot had cats. But so we walked up to somebody and they were outside eating and I said they had a standard poodle. And I said, can I borrow your dog and just take him down with a bee? and they're like yeah sure you know and it was trusting you know and the girl that was taking the pictures she said yeah but you don't have poodles you have labs I'm like yeah but it makes sense I have a lot of poodle clients that's so funny well I love animals and they all have such different personalities the breed and then each animal right it's just it's really fascinating to see that and I've always said that when you let a dog just be who it is, it's when that personality really comes out. But if you treat it like a dog, like it somehow shuts them off or they're not allowed to grow or develop, or I guess maybe expand in some way. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So do you have any advice or tips for the listeners? Yeah. So I'll kind of circle back to the love much. So when I was, when I was, Wanting to rebrand last year and going through a lot of my own Dark Knight stuff, I kept hearing love much, love much, love much on repeat. And so I just decided, okay, that's going to be my new tagline. That's going to be my brand. And then I got really interested in St. Teresa of Avila. And I started reading a lot of different mystics and different religions. But her book, Interior Castle, I just really started reading. And reading about the mystical heartbreak. So I guess the advice comes in, in terms of like, feel the feelings, um, allow you don't, you know, don't spend three weeks swallowing and bonbons. Right. Um, but allow yourself to feel like we are feeling creatures. And I came across, so I rebranded, started to rebrand at the end of last year, um, rolled it all out this year and maybe, um, Like two months ago, I was reading one of her works that I hadn't come across before. And I came across the quote, and this is what I'll leave the reader or the listeners with. The important thing is not to think much, but to love much. And so do what stirs love inside of you, I think is what the quote is. Oh, that's beautiful. So it's always if you, the way I put it is, you know, find what breaks your heart the most and serve it. What breaks your heart the most. Find what breaks your heart the most and serve it. Interesting. Yeah, it's a really great place to start, right? Because oftentimes what fires us up the most, what makes us the most sad is definitely tied to our purpose here. Interesting. I'm going to sit on that one. Yeah. And a good way to kind of play with it is if you can think about whether you're watching a movie or you're at a party or you're just going about your day-to-day life, you're having coffee with your girlfriends.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:if there is a theme that almost every time you hear a story about it or you see it on TV, you just, you stop and you feel. I'll tell you what that is for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely animal cruelty. Like it is, I have no patience. It hurts every time I see that on Facebook or Instagram or someone sends me something. I'm like, do not like, I'm not the person you're supposed to be sending this to. Or maybe you are. Or maybe I am now. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's definitely cruelty to animals and to the environment. Yeah. It's just crazy. I just don't get it. I do get it and I don't get it. And it's really like that's one thing when I work with people in spiritual direction now. Yeah. That's one of the places we start and really unraveling. Okay. So how does that fit into your purpose? And does it mean that you're supposed to start an animal rescue and rescue of animals? Maybe not. but there's definitely clues there to unravel. Yeah. Well, you know, Finn is part of this podcast. So, um, we will definitely be talking about topics here, uh, on animals and their wellness and their health. Yeah. So, um, that is definitely on, on the, on the plan or in the plan, I should say. Fun. Yeah. So how can people get in touch with you? Uh, the best way to get in touch with me is my website. Um, I'll put it in the show. Yeah. I'll put it in the show. And, um, if you want to know what's going on, if you go on the website, join the love much community, you'll get on the email list. Um, I don't really do social, uh, and so social media. So the best way is to get on my email list and you'll know all the fun stuff and retreats and yeah. Um, yeah. Excellent. Well, I guess this is a good place to wrap up. All right. Well, thanks for having me. It was fun. Thank you for coming. Bye. See ya.