Late-Night Talk: Jade Goodwin, Miriam Beyers, PhD and Nathan John. Two Entrepreneurs and a Careers Advisor having a Roundtable

Students and graduates!

Miriam Beyers is a double PhD in Environmental Science from the Universities of Copenhagen and Ghent, and is the founder and CEO of WonTime, offering tailored workshops about time management and productivity exercises around wellbeing and mindfulness.

Nathan John is the founder and CEO of Rewise, an Award-winning business which creates educational projects by combining impactful social outreach with core customer values.

Jade Goodwin is a careers advisor at Swansea University, helping current students and graduates to find employment and to develop high demand skills in the job market through mock interviews and skill set workshops around employability.

WonTime: https://www.wontime.eu/
Careerboost email: careerboost@swansea.ac.uk
Rewise: https://www.rewise.co.uk/

Thank you all for tuning in, it has been a pleasure!

Transcript

New Year, Meet The Guests

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Miriam Bayert uh Nathan John and Jade Goodwin. So welcome to PHD Lounge and thank you for being my first three guests of the year. So I would like to say happy new year first and foremost. And it's a completely different uh version to so to speak, where we're gonna have uh one guest with two PhDs and uh two other guests with completely different backgrounds who uh want to share a their own story of how you guys reached it. So welcome. I'm glad you guys would be here. So we would like to start with uh Miriam, ladies first, with me with Miriam, and would you like to share with us? I already introduced you with two PhDs, but would you like to share? And then we go with Jade, and then last but not least, Nathan.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, thank you very much for for having me and for having us, and happy new year to you too and everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Um yeah, as you said, my name is Miriam, and uh yeah, two PhDs uh sounds uh maybe more impressive than it really is. But yeah, I got my PhD degrees from the University of Copenhagen in Denmark and uh Rend University in Belgium. So it was a double degree program in an EU project, so there was close collaboration between different institutions across uh Europe. And I was in the middle of that, and I was also in the middle of COVID when I was a few months in, so I got it all on my on my plate. Um, having to navigate uh the university criteria from two sides. I had three supervisors, I was living in a new country, I had a long distance relationship from one day to the other, so I was like kind of trying to navigate it all. And um yeah, and that became a bit much. And because it became a bit much, I realized that I uh wanted to change the way I work, the way that I look at my PhD, my work, and also my private life, because they didn't really um the proportions didn't seem right, and the energy that I spent on each of them didn't really feel right and aligned. So I started exploring um yeah, time management, productivity, human psychology when it comes to work, when it comes to our mindset of what we are supposed to do or what we think we are supposed to do. And yeah, and that led me ultimately to uh yeah, found a company around that. So now I'm helping PhDs who also feel like they want to juggle everything more easily, more joyfully, to get there.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

What was the name of the company?

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Uh one time, but one not as one, but in terms of winning. So one time, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

No, go on, Jade.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So, yeah, so good morning as well and happy new year. I will say this is the first time I've done a podcast or anything like this. Um, it's quite exciting. I I like it. Um, so I obviously work at Swanse University. Um, I'm actually from Swansea. Um, I grew up here, so quite typically Welsh didn't stray too far. Um, I studied a degree in French at Swan's University. Finished that about 20 years ago. Um, it's a long time now, I know. And um I worked in a few other places when I graduated, but ultimately, I think a year after graduation came back, came to work at Swans University for the first time and sort of worked in a few different teams. I I did some HR, some administrative roles, um, attempted in a few areas, um, but ultimately at that time ended up on an employability programme called Go Wales that sort of links to what I do now. Um, and I did that for five or six years and I absolutely loved it. Um, very much a work experience program, um,

Miriam’s Double PhD And Burnout Pivot

SPEAKER_02 7:36

loved sort of seeing students and helping them. Um, and what I do now is very much an evolution of that. Um, and then the funding for that actually ended in 2014 and I thought, what do I do now? I don't know where I fit. And at that time, I decided to do an access to nursing course. Um, and that was a lot of work, but very different to anything I'd done. And I had points where I just thought, what am I doing? Is this the right thing? But I loved it as well. Um, and then I actually came back to Swans University as a student again uh and started an adult nursing degree. Um, I only got about halfway through that. Um, and because of an injury, I had I had to leave the course. Um, and then at another point in the future, I came back to working at the university. So I I've been here forever and I literally feel like part of the furniture now. I am either working here or studying here. Um, but I would say if I had to sum it up, I am the definition of a squiggly career. You know, I've done HR, I've done careers, a little bit of marketing, nursing, um, healthcare. Um, but I ultimately I feel I love what I do now. So I feel quite fortunate to land back in employability. Um, and I think that squiggly career I've had where I've sort of dipped a toe in lots of areas, has been really helpful. Um, so where I'm at now, I'm now working on a team called Career Boost. Um, somewhat similar to Go Wales, but it's um evolved in such a way that there's a lot of support now through our government funding for students that might be um struggling with career confidence or um might have barriers to opportunities and they need help finding opportunities and sort of building their um social capital. Um I absolutely love what I do now. I find it so rewarding and I love where I'm at. And I think for me, the fact that I've done lots of different things in other lives really, really helps. Um and yeah, so it's a lot of time spent at the university, either working or studying, but uh it feels like I'm where I'm supposed to be and I really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, yeah. Nathan.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Nice. Um it's it's already apparent, isn't it, the the role that the universities have played in all of our lives, and that's that's interesting there as well with with everybody. Um yeah, happy new year. Everyone uh blinding now with that. Um where to start, really. I guess I'm the current um CEO of Rewise and founder. Uh I founded the company way back now in in 2008, and I guess again, you know, that's a direct uh correlation there between my time in in university. So similar to Jade and Luis as well. I I studied in Swansea. Um I I never thought I'd end up going to university when I was in school. So I was told

Jade’s Squiggly Career And Employability Work

SPEAKER_03 11:16

um that I wouldn't get you know good grades at GCSEs, etc. And I was never even you know taught what university was, I guess. I mean I I always thought it was just Oxford and Cambridge and people racing boats. I didn't think it was for for people like me at that time. Um, but I ended up finding out about it, and um of all things, uh a girlfriend at the time was studying and going to Swansea, and I was just a bit like, well, what's that? And then obviously did a bit of research. Um I can remember applying. I in my A levels, I only had a C and a D, which was kind of what I got throughout my kind of school career. So I didn't have much choice when it came to subjects. So I had history for economics, and um of all my teachers, my economics teacher was a really kind of inspirational guy, and you know, was uh he would I come after these you know ideas then for businesses and he'd always be quite encouraging. So I picked economics and I ended up um being approved to study in Swansea for an applied economics degree, um which I didn't realise at the time, but also contained a lot of statistics and uh maths equations. Um it was kind of life-changing, I guess, without my journey, without like coming to Swansea, meeting the people that I met who are still you know lifelong friends to this day, um, and students, including Stu, who sat opposite me there. Um, you know, I think that really kind of it's amazing how university and them experiences outside of the classroom can make you as an individual. And for me, it takes you know it gave me the self-belief and determination to go on um and start the businesses that I have. Um it's also interesting because when I was at Swansea, I I it's kind of a mantra that's developed, you know, between finding opportunities through through kind of hard work and then having the confidence to kind of take advantage of them. And one of the first ones, I guess, was starting um an events business and becoming a DJ um all through again a close friendship circle and and finding that opportunity. And for me, it goes back then to being in school and the music that I loved at that time became the music that I ended up DJing and I just built on confidence. That basically led to me being um diagnosed as being dyslexic in my third year. Um I would this is the bit that maybe people shouldn't kind of copy if you like, but I go to university to promote our events rather than lectures, um, which isn't great. But it led to me meeting my tutor who said, Look, I think you're dyslexic, and I I got that test, you know, three, four weeks before my final exams. Um it made sense, you know, when I was diagnosed, and then I got extra support for them exams. So I ended up getting the best grades I got in my life. I ended up getting 70, 80%, and that just kind of flipped the switch, you know, where I thought, okay, well, obviously I think in a different way, learn in a different way, etc. I'm not stupid, but I can go on and do what I want to do. And that basically led to me going back to the idea for this business that I had when I was in school, but maybe didn't have the confidence at the time to talk about. Um, and then yeah, you know, roll on however many years we are, too many to count, 15 at least. Um, the business is still still going uh today. So yeah, um that's gonna me, and that's a little bit about my um time at university as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

So uh I guess everything is interconnected and we have lots of different backgrounds, but going back it seems to what we we gather across uh across our life experience in the at the beginning, uh following university or uh still do during during our studies, then uh those experiences we gather them and then we put into something that uh we uh uh we really enjoy. I was never expecting to hear uh anyone coming from who has a uh French linguistics background and then using uh using those skills uh to work at the cur at the uh the current uh job position uh uh as Jake said, and then medium uh uh struggling with time and using that time uh into a business venture in helping others to improve their own time, as you said as well. Uh your skills in DJing and uh using your disability uh to uh help businesses and also individuals to uh improve themselves, to give them confidence to work on themselves and potentially on a business uh on a business side effect to uh found their own. Found their own business. And I think that's the best of that's the best of everything with uh if putting uh our hard work say to say the least in order to achieve that success. So uh I'd like to ask uh how to to Miriam and Nathan and then goes to to Jade. How how your careers, how your business ventures and uh uh Jade were if your career how it was in the beginning? Was it too complicated? Was there any any obstacles uh that you overcame and how you overcome overcame them?

SPEAKER_03 16:32

I mean yeah, and Miriam, would you like to go first? Or I can go first, please. Um I I can still remember it, you know, like it was yesterday, basically starting, and obviously that one of the biggest things is there is we all need like an idea naturally. You need to have obviously the passion for that idea, but sadly we need money as well um to start it, which is obviously like a real barrier um for everybody, but obviously uh more so for some than others. And I can remember, you know, just graduating, having like no money at all, like a minus figure, obviously. Um, and at the time there again, I think it goes back to having to kind of do that work, put the hard work in to find the opportunities, and the thing goes for the funding, doesn't it? And I found out about a scholarship okay in the university, and Jade, it might still exist, the KEF scholarship it was called. I don't know, probably probably changed the name, but but basically it was about £2,000 to help someone kind of live whilst they develop their idea. So I can remember doing this research, finding that, going um and applying for it, but then getting turned down. But I at that time I was like, no, you know, I'm not I'm not taking no for an answer. And I'm good friends now with the lady that kind of um was helping with the application, and I was just like, no, you know, no, we can't like we need we need this to kind of start. So we ended up like appealing it, you know, like three times and eventually winning it. Um, and I still joke, you know, we went on to do like we've run um a lot of work with the university with the different departments on like pretension rates and student student confidence and all these other things. But I always joke with this lady, you know, like you know, if it wasn't for that and me just kind of not taking over an answer, we wouldn't be doing what we've done. So I think like that's um yeah, that that's the kind of big obstacle. Obviously, again, you know, confidence in my opinion, you get it from experience, don't you? You know, if you can look back in your mind and think, oh well, look, I've done, you know, whether it's public speaking, pitching, whatever, I've done it before, I've got this positive association. If I focus on that, I can get this. But before you obviously have that experience, um, it's quite nerve-wracking, I would say. And I think a lot of people maybe don't go on to pursue what they want to do because of that kind of voice, if you like, saying that they can't do it. So I think it's almost like a a change in your perception to being like, ooh, do you know what? I I always used to look at it like what's the worst thing that can happen. It got to a point in this, well, okay, well, what's the worst thing that can happen? And I think to have that kind of mindset and to draw on positive experiences, like you know, getting that um fund in the end, you think, well, actually, if I push it, if I keep going, you know, there there will be um light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. So I would say that really it can be tough, it's a lonely place as well, obviously, at the start. Um, when you're doing everything, and you know, sometimes everyone obviously gets a negative thought as well, thinking, Oh, you know, is this meant to be? But again, I'm I'm a believer and I think it's shaped from that start of that journey. If you've got the mindset and you've got the hard work, you will make them opportunities, you know, and something will happen. On the other side, I guess if it's not meant to be, it's not as well. You can't it's certain things you can't control as well, you know. So I think if you focus on what you can control, um that's the kind of one of the keys for me at the start, really.

Nathan’s Dyslexia, DJing, And Founding Rewise

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, I was I was gonna say that's great. I I think Nathan hit the nail on the head that perception accounts for so much. Um I say this to students all the time. You don't know what you don't know, so you can have quite a linear way of thinking about your career or your life, even, or you can have quite a straightforward, you can have a plan, and that can be totally blown out of the water. And sometimes you go along with that plan, but you don't know the end from the beginning. You can only figure it out as you go along, and it's being okay with figuring it out as you go along. And if you are okay with that sort of career journey and and um making moves as well and dealing with failure, like Nathan said, applying three times. It almost reminded me of the X-Facts, you know, the people that keep coming back and they get told no, but then 10 years down the line, they've got an amazing career because they didn't take no for an answer. Um, you know, resilience is such a skill and a tool that employers are looking for, and that the way the world is now that we need to be building that resilience. Um, for me and my early career, I'm quite embarrassed to admit, but my barrier was my naivety. And I am in it, it I use it now to my advantage when I help helping students and when I see them um uh not know what they want to do, because I was that person that I finished a French degree and I quit my job in Poundland, and I would think I was a couple of thousand pounds overdrawn. And I thought, where's my graduate career? I automatically thought I would qualify. Bear in mind this was 20 years ago. You know, you didn't have, you know, work experience was very traditional and things like that. Um, we hadn't had COVID yet. There was no virtual element to it. You know, you went out and sometimes you're you filled in application forms of paper still. Um, you know, or you would take your TV in person with you. And I had the naivety to quit my part-time job on minimum wage and think, well, I'm bound, you know, I got you know, got a degree, um, bound to find something in the next couple of months, and then reality slaps you across the face and you think, I've got some figuring out to do here. Um, and it's I work with students now to help them be as informed as possible. What I will say is fast forward 20 years, the resources available to them, there's so much available, but you don't know what you don't know. So that's why speaking to somebody, finding some support. So I I felt for you, Nathan, when you said was it the last exam or the last but one exam, you had your diagnosis.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Yeah. Now I would that's it.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And now I would hope that um somebody would perhaps say something to Nathan or that student a bit earlier. There's so many, you know, there's a test available and there's support available. My team was specifically designed in Career Boost with increase in employability to support students with certain characteristics, dyslexia being one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so there's so much more available. So I feel like maybe we we we went through the trenches, but um it's led to what we've got now. But um, if I'm honest, yeah, I always go back to you don't know what you don't know. So it's about not boxing yourself into this linear way of thinking, it's about finding out what's possible and and trying again if something doesn't work first time around. That's absolutely fine as well. Um, I'm I'll stop there because I could I could give a tech talk all day long. But um, yeah, it's I I agree with everything Nathan said.

unknown 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

And uh yeah, for me it also wasn't like an easy path. I think the first thing was realizing that I had been studying environmental science for over 10 years, and then I decided to like not go for the career that I thought I wanted to have for so many years. So that was kind of an existential crisis. Um and then also, I mean, I hadn't started a business before. I mean, who has, right? This is the first time. So every Everything felt like a struggle. Almost everything. But the meaning was so big that I had this like, yeah, we can call it resilience, we can call it stubbornness. Um that I would just also not accept it to not work. It was just not an option. So if I got a no, okay, then I either try again or I I try somewhere else. Um, so yeah, that helps. But also keeping like a sane, a balance kind of thing, and to like, okay, you can do this, but you don't need to burn yourself out either. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

I think it is something that we all go through. And when we start, we go to university, we start at the beginning, it's like it's like taking the first steps as a as a toddler and then say, okay, this is university, I'm going to party all the time and thinking about and doing the studies, and then we there's a phase where I think most of us go through and say, I don't know what to do. And I also say from my personal experience, and I was uh uh doing a small uh internship at an archaeological station to in which I'm still friends with uh with the the people who work there and they are really helpful. And they encourage me to go abroad and say I don't know what to do. And then they say, try to find something and well, I would like to be a lecturer. But then fast forwarding for almost uh I've been in like university for almost 11 years and a half from my undergraduate to uh uh my well my PhD, which I'll finish in uh officially in eight weeks. And uh thank you. And uh and then just my the shift completely I had a completely um an 180 degree of now. I'd like to do some project management in arts, culture and heritage. Um but obviously these are some uh uh murky waters to explore the uh some there will be some challenges and uncertainties. And so uh what Jade has shared with us that it is really important and uh probably the students may know what to do and what with this uh boom of information that we uh uh we have nowadays, it is still some there is still some uh uncertainty and the and students uh uh feel still feel a bit lost in what they actually want to do, but don't know yet how to take that first step. And so having someone who uh uh who is more experienced or who has gone through that and who's willing to share, just like the four of us around here, well, I'm still looking for a job, but uh uh it is uh I think that's the best part of it is uh helping each other out uh in a world where uh individuality uh is still uh overvalued and nothing much to do. Um and one of the things that uh for businesses and those who are looking for jobs, but specifically for businesses, I do rem I do recall Nathan when we had our Christmas party, we were having a conversation, and then Robin said it's easier to uh set up a business than finding a job. Would you agree on that? And I also asked medium and Jade, if you have your set your opinion as well.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

I would probably, I mean, everyone kind of walks in their own shoes, I guess. So I guess it depends on the individual, but I would say it dep it probably depends what job for a start. It's back to you, I guess, what everyone has said on the call, you know, having that kind of defined path in their mind and career. Okay, I'm gonna study this subject and then go work in this field. Obviously, it can be more competitive in certain fields and it can depend on your location, etc., and factors you can't control to get the job. Um, I'd say it's it's probably different, would be a like a better description, you know, different stresses um with wanting to enter a career, different stresses with starting a business. And I think when you get to different stages of the business as well, you know, like when you're in that startup phase, obviously it's it's always exciting, it should always be exciting anyway. That's why you kind of do it, isn't it? But it's different stresses in terms of like getting um capital in, exploring kind of your market, making a customer base, so on. As time grows, obviously, then you become more responsible for other people as well, you know, and it becomes about obviously it's not just yourself, it's a um a work family, if you like, and keeping people in that job, um when people have got maybe their own mortgages, bills, etc. to pay, so it becomes more of a stress there. Um but at the same time, I mean, I guess I'm in a I mean if I think like related back to my own kind of um story, if you like, it's been a long time now since I've worked for anyone, you know. When I was at university in my second year, I started doing the DJing and the promotion, etc., which was like a little business, if you like. So that I was you know, I was 18 then, so I haven't actually had a job, if you like. I do apply and focus it that way since then, um, which was you know a few years ago. So I it's hard if I had to kind of I I couldn't imagine working for anyone else now, you know. Um which might I think that's just me and my own kind of um being a control freak really maybe at heart, you know, but I can't imagine doing that now.

Early-Career Obstacles And Funding Grit

SPEAKER_03 30:07

So for me, I don't know, it's a difficult one. And I think again, back to the original answer, I guess both have got their stresses. Um, but I do think maybe for young people now, even though the support is the if it can be harder maybe to move into that career as well, you know, which is like there's all kinds of reasons maybe um in terms of the amount of people maybe studying certain subjects, you know. There's the supply that's stripping, um sorry, uh the demand without stripping the supply for the jobs in certain cases. Um I also think maybe the fact like we've talked about some of the positive stuff maybe with COVID, you know, in terms of being able to work online, etc., but obviously that's increasing the scope of people that can apply for certain jobs when they don't live in a community as well. I think maybe that's making it more difficult for someone to move into that job. Um it's almost like um globalization, isn't it, of a job market where you can be based anywhere and obviously um work remotely. So I think all of them factors um do make it yeah quite difficult for a young person now to enter that career that they want to. So I would say I'm gonna sit on the fence and say again, it depends on the individual um in terms of a specific uh answer there. And that that that's what I remember of the Christmas party as well. Can I add, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Because uh it was curious what Robin said, and I was like, no, this this is gonna be a a question to ask to Nathan and to meet him. Because I I had already thought about the idea of asking this and because this this is uh a great uh question to have uh have their own have the go have their own goal, sorry, to ex to explore to share their own perspective over that. And they say, oh let's let's open a business, let's do this, and and then okay, you need to you need to find your own um your own solid foundation of what you actually want to do for a bit uh in your business, what ideas you could um break down and write into making into an outline and then reworking on those every single time.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Yeah, I think for me it also depends on how one defines easy. Um, because I got cold feet uh before and then I applied for jobs because I was like, okay, I'm I'm not like I can't do this financially, I need a job. And I got a job so fast in the environmental sector. Like I think I've got three applications.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Because there is the demand is there for engineering environmental sciences and stuff. So finding something technically was easy, but finding something like meaningful and some it it is it's not that it wasn't meaningful, like they had a good cause and sense and everything, but not for me. And finding something that is really aligned from my perspective, I think it's easier to start a business, if if that is the definition of easy. So yeah, as you say, it really depends on the individual and and what they want their easy to be. Is it easy in terms of just getting something? Is it easy in terms of the money that one earns? Is it easy in terms of the fulfillment that's behind it? What is the easy um that someone's looking for? Or the heart? I think on the on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I think that kind of makes sense as well, doesn't it? Because like like you say, it's like with the business, you can create what you want from a job as well, in terms of like the personal fulfillment and you know, the real kind of specifics of the role, um, which I guess you can see it would be hard to maybe find the perfect match, but yeah, it's still hard to create it as well, isn't it? You know, different different challenges. Nothing's easy, basically, but it's all worth it.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I was gonna say I've probably got the opposite experience to Nathan. So where I've always worked, always applied for jobs, um, not minded the recruitment process too much. Yes, I've had my disappointments and I've had interviews I've done really well at, and then I've not got the job, and ones that I've I've had a wobble, and then I've actually got the job. Um I wanna kind of want to join you on the fence though, because I think they are so different. Nathan's absolutely right. It is down to the individual and how you're wired and whether or not you have a really good um business idea to begin with. So I've always looked up to people who um can create a business and they've done that, but I've never had that solid idea to run with. So as much as I might like the idea of owning a business, if you don't have some kind of passion or spark of an idea or something or that somebody else needs, then you've you've got nothing to build with. Um and you might have the tools, but not the bricks kind of thing. Um but hearing Nathan say that, I know I think we're a similar age and studied at a similar time, but um the fact that he hasn't worked for anybody since he's 18, to me, that's terrifying. But I'm a little bit envious as well, because I think what you've built now is more solid than working for somebody else and more sustainable and more has more security. Whereas when you are starting your own business, the things you lack are that sustainability and that security. Whereas those are the things you look for when you apply for a job and go through traditional recruitment. Um so it is yeah, it's like comparing eggs and oranges or eggs and apples or whatever they call, I don't know the phrase, but it is like that. Um it's the only thing, ways in which they're symbolized, it's you either do one with your time or you do the other with your time, but they're actually completely different. Um, I suppose what I want to add in is again, it's stripping back that linear thinking. And, you know, people can start a business at almost any age and any stage of their life and not think, oh, I have I haven't done it from the beginning when I'm 18. I can still do it now. There's so many different programs out there. You know, I'm always getting emails from different councils about business support groups or um funded training courses or, you know, business and startup qualifications. Um and for students in the university now, there's there's a big drive with enterprise. Um I think 20 years ago, for students come to an appointment and said, I want to start a business, we go, oh hang on now. Maybe, you know, go work for somebody else for a couple of days, let's get some experience, you're only young, that kind of thing. Whereas now it's, you know, oh, you've got to go to a business and yeah, five. We've got a team that can give you a few thousand pounds, you know, there's somebody that can give you some business training. Um, and you can um pitch to somebody, create a pitch and understand what it means to build a business. Um, but still, I to me building a business is so much more difficult. But that's my again, it's back to that perception, isn't it? And how you are wired and um what you've kind of materials you've got to work with. Um, but yeah, they are so different. And and you can do both, you know, you can if you want to build a business, but you don't have you need to start with a good income. There's nothing wrong with starting, going through um working for somebody else, starting in a role, and then a business being sort of that, what do they call it, that side quest. Um, and then over time tipping your um focus more towards that if it's successful. Um, that makes for a busy life.

Linear Paths, Resilience, And Not Knowing

SPEAKER_02 41:50

But if somebody really, really wants that for themselves in the future, you can do both. Um, but hats off to anybody that runs a business because I clock off at the end of the day. And I mean, I mean I do think about work a hub, but I try not to. But I suppose, Nathan, I don't know if you agree, when you're a business owner, you think about it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

A lot. It's yeah, I mean, no, yeah, isn't it you know, it's a few things, you've got to kind of shut the voice off um a lot of the time, whether it's good or bad, and a few things there as well. It's funny, Jacob. You you you you say that like so, you know, it must be um uh kind of scary running a business and everything. But I I somehow look at it the opposite way as well. Because like even though the business is really great, and again it's been however long it's been 16 years, and it's arguably it was it's not arguably and isn't the best position it's ever been, um, the fear is still there that it can end tomorrow, you know, and it won't, but it's always gonna be there. Maybe that's a good thing in a way, because it kind of keeps, you know, keeps you on your toes, so to speak. But that fear I think is always there. But I guess I don't know, maybe it'd be the same obviously working for someone as well, wouldn't it? Because you don't know the situation of that company again, you're not um maybe in in control of that to an extent as well, you know, other decisions, the market, etc. So I think I don't know, it's a funny one. I d I think sometimes I don't know, it would have been great to have done this, you know, or done this career and like maybe not had these worries, but I don't know. I think it all yeah, it all comes back to I guess, you know, I guess what ultimately you want from life in a way, doesn't it? As well, you know, for me, I've always liked that flexibility, and as much as I can be lying in bed last night thinking about spreadsheet success, what I've got to do today, and this and that, and hypothetical situations on numerous um areas. At the same time, I know if I want to leave, and this is again it's hypothetical, but if I wanted to go surfing at three o'clock today, I could go, you know. And the only thing stopping me would be myself. Which I again it's something that you do have to do to be disciplined to get to the point that you want to get in business too, you know. So I don't know, it's always like I think that like we've all said, isn't it? You know, there's been pros and cons on both sides, really, and ultimately it comes down to what what suits the individual. Um and I think the last point, Jade is why you mentioned, you know, obviously it's it's never too late to start a business. I think I saw a stat the other day that more people, not that it's about money, you know, um, but more people become millionaires in their 40s, 50s from starting a business than people in their twenties, you know. So I think um it's never yeah, it's never too late for people to take that idea that they've got a passion for. And my view again was always, okay, well, look, I'll try it. Doesn't work, it doesn't work, you know. And I I'd always said the same kind of line in in public speaking over the years, I'd rather have tried something and failed than worry about bits of paper, you know, with the I'd say the queen's head, but the king's head, whoever's head on it, you know, it doesn't matter. It's just bits of paper at the end of the day, isn't it? It's better to have tried, you know, and and and failed basically as well. I I do believe that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Um well completely different opinions, and uh they all uh going down to the more or less the in a similar point of okay, it's never too late to starting your own businesses. I mean, even the big CEOs of w of that are widely known, like Amazon, for example, David uh Jeff Beeters uh founded the company in its 30s, for example, and as I said, it's never too late. And I think it's just you have to have you must have the passion and a and also a solid foundation of what you actually want to do. And uh and maybe having a side hustle in just as a start to uh build your your own empire uh uh to say the least. So Nathan, uh I was hearing a podcast from uh a host called uh Erica Warren, and I was I was interested in knowing a bit more when how you used um your own uh uh your own dyslexic disability to develop uh rewise. And uh why do you think that UK schools and probably across the world, at least a bit it's a a bit in a larger scale, should adopt um alternative education?

SPEAKER_03 46:20

So I I think like on um the personal side, if I again I touched upon it earlier, when I was in school, I was basically told I was stupid, you know, can remember in um English classes, reading and you know, reading um letters or words or names of people wrong. Ironically, I've always liked reading, you know, but I'd read it, I'd read and if it was a name I didn't couldn't well I thought I could say it right, actually. I'm saying I could say it wrong, but I didn't even know. So I'm reading this name wrong, and it's only obviously then when you read it out to the class you realise you're getting it wrong. Um and simple simple words like said, for example, I get wrong or because. So I always kind of had that, and I guess I always realize then that my brain maybe was working a little bit different, you know. Um I was writing business ideas down then, um, which is quite funny actually, because I I look back at my notes too and which is funny, but in the early kind of naughties, whatever you call it, I'd wrote down, oh, you know, we should start internet TV. So I'm kind of claiming internet TV really and Netflix is uh an original idea. But I've always had that kind of thought, you know, and think, I've got a bit, you know, thinking strange of all these ideas or think deep. So

Redefining “Easy”: Job Versus Business

SPEAKER_03 47:30

in in it for me in school then I realised like it didn't suit my style. You know, to set the picture, my my secondary school is in um a place called um uh near Cafiti in Cafidi Kenneth County, and the new block was about 40 years old, you know, it's got graffiti in there from the 70s and it was an old boys' school, and again I tell people that and people think oh it must have been a a private school, and no, it was like the the the the funniest, you know, worst school ever where yeah, no one seemed to care, I guess. You know, it was quite a rough, yeah, rough school, tough school. Um, but you know, I I liked my time there because it shaped me of who I am, but I could see from an early age I was put in all these bottom sets uh based on academic correctness, and I'm thinking, you know, I shouldn't be in here. No one should, you know, again for that point, because it's just because I'm learning in a different way. It's not that I don't understand what's being said and taught, I just can't like fathom it in the way it's being delivered, as in someone just talking and and writing it down on the board, and there's not enough time. I mean, my my handwriting, even to this day, is like I'm probably the only person in the world who can understand it, it's like a code. Um, all of this kind of added up, I guess. And for me at the same time, I fell in love with music. So the way I like to look at it is you've got all that as negativity, okay? You've got all this negative. Negativity. You know, what do you need to combat negativity? You need positivity to bring balance. And for me, it came from music and my love of like reggae music, hip-hop music, music that basically I guess I could identify with the message it was being told, um, and almost that message of like the underdog, if you like, you know, um so it really kind of resonated with me and I guess the social purpose of that music and the story it was telling. And I started to think in a bit deeper. I think, oh actually, you know, there is a world outside of like this classroom and this um community, you know, whatever you want to call it. So I started to think, oh well, you know, my my brain might work a bit different in terms of education, which doesn't mean I'm stupid and I'll never forget, you know, going to a career advisor and saying, Oh, you know, I again I I knew the idea. I had the idea, okay, to use music to teach the GCSE syllabus when I was like 14, 15, you know, and a song come on the radio, and I ended up kind of singing it back to myself really badly as we do. And I thought, well, why can't I remember this Shakespeare that I'm learning? Why can't I remember my best? You know, if this was in a credible song, I'd remember it subconsciously. Um and it would make learning a lot easier. So even then I was thinking, okay, different learning style. But I went to a career advisor and I couldn't even say that because again I didn't love the confidence that this is my idea. But I was like, I want to start a business. And they said to me, you know, basically don't bother, you know, because you're not doing the right subject. Go and get a job um in in in the factory around the corner. But you know, for me then that was someone to put on like the hit list and they think, okay, well, I think it's almost good that I've been told that because now I want to prove someone wrong, you know, and that gives you a bit of fire. And the same to all the teachers that ever said, I can't do this, I can't do that. It's like again, it's fire thing. Okay, I'm gonna prove these people wrong. Relating that then back to like the business again, it was a direct result basically after being uh diagnosed as being dyslexic. Um on a bit of a high, you know. I I I graduated, I got them kind of high grades um in a subject that if I'm completely honest, I didn't go to lectures, you know, in that kind of third year because I was too busy running the business and and working hard. Hard DJ promoted, shall we say? Um, but it showed me again if you work hard you can achieve, you know, and I got all them books from the library, and we all know what it's like when you go to the library at university and you can't get the first choice books, you're getting these really obscure texts, but obviously that helps getting a different opinion. So yeah, when I got them grades, it was like yeah, it was like a magical kind of moment, if you like. And I thought, right, I'm gonna go back and start that idea that I had when I was 14 to prove that anyone, this isn't just me, anyone, can follow their passion, whether that's a career, a business, the best passion of all obviously just being like happy and fulfilled. You know, we can all do that if we put our mind to it. Um, and yes, that was a direct result um of my education. We took we started off by taking the GCSE syllabus. We made over 200 songs about different topics, um, drawn on experience from musicians that I'd worked with. Uh that that proved really successful. Um, there's a few like you know anecdotes and stories, but I'm not gonna take up all the time then. But in the early days, we had a lot of grants and finding a loan, you know, a lot of loans to start the business. Um, and yeah, there was a few funny opportunities with um well uh King Charles now and a prime minister at the time, which ended up getting us lots of promotion and kicking it off. And I think once we once we settled on the music, we then kind of moved into other areas, you know, and it was looking how we could use things like technology um that young people obviously engage with and essentially just get young people to learn by doing, you know, that with our ethos. Learn by doing our our complete nutshell in what we do as an organization is giving a young person a challenge that they think they can't achieve, and the idea is they're giving positive coaching to achieve that. That leaves them with that positive association where they walk into a classroom and think, Oh, I can't do this, you know, and they end up achieving it. And the idea is if we can bottle that feeling, they can take that forward into every area of life, you know, and it doesn't matter if that's making um a song or a podcast, a film, um one of our kind of STEM kits, it's the same, you know, without that confidence, without knowing that they can achieve in um a situation which is different to mainstream education, if you like, and maybe mimics more like real life situations. Um, if they don't know that, I don't think people can achieve their potential. So yeah, that's a kind of um I guess a medium answer on the subject.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Was there also any sort of uh confidence that uh medium that um you worked on with uh PhDs and also other clients if you had, or you just completely PhDs?

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Um it's not only PhDs that I work with, also some that are postdocs or completely non-academics. Non-academic in the sense of they they don't have a PhD or anything um degree. And um yeah, working with confidence for sure. Um and I think it's also a nice like angle that you uh give into it, Nathan, because for me it's also been a lot of me thinking I need to prove someone wrong. Like also for me in high school, I was told that I would never be able to be good in English. And now I've run a company in English, and I got my doctoral degree in English. But I was told by my teachers that I'm a hopeless case. So and back then I already thought, like, I'm gonna prove you wrong, I'm gonna learn this language at some point.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

Um it's an amazing feeling too, isn't it, then though? It's it gives you the confidence then, doesn't it, to go and push on to whatever the next kind of um boundary is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But and and I mean I guess it's also kind of a good motivation, but it's also a sad motivation in a way, because it's coming from a place of lack, yeah. Uh or shortage, and then as you do it, like actually encouraging the the kids or or younger uh older um people or students to like to show them you can do this from the start, not like trying to prove them wrong first. So that's really I think that's really really nice and a really good and healthy approach. For sure. Um, yeah, and for me working with confidence, it's um yeah, uh telling them also that they're doing enough, that they are enough, that their words is completely independent of how many hours they are in the lab um or where they publish their papers. Like there is this prestigious thinking of uh having publications in specific journals or whatever. Um, and also the confidence to yeah, to say no, to protect their time, um, to not feeling selfish about okay, I need my focus time from 9 to 11, and this is not selfish, it's self-protection. Um and uh yeah, so in this sense I definitely also work with with confidence.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

And as we we were we were talking on during the talk uh that it builds throughout time and short in Sweden is it through trial and and error and trying to improve and that that will increase our confidence, so so to speak. Um and I wonder for the three of you if you had uh any any recent story or uh or a long time story where uh the three of you had to face uh uh any uh uh issues with clients and uh students respectively. So would you like Jake to to share if you had uh a story that you had to deal with a with a student who struggled a lot?

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Yeah, I mean a lot of what we do is uh having lots of conversations and building confidence in people. And that takes time and it takes building trust and getting to know people, and kind of I'd say from my perspective as a practitioner, it's meeting people where they're at, sure. And kind of getting rid of the assumption that all students are the same or or people of a certain age are the same or a certain level of study, and it's meeting that person where they're at from my side of it, and sort of let I'm here to guide them and be a mirror back to them and reflect things back to them, but helping that to go somewhere and have conversations that help build their confidence and let them know what they could try and um what are the smaller steps they can take to get to where they need to get to. Um one uh student does spring to mind, and it's I've been in this role um three years now uh within Career Boost, and it was probably a year and a half, maybe two years ago. I met, yeah, a couple of years ago, I met with my one of my first PhD students, and he was a mature student as well. And so what I do before an appointment is I'll look at what they've studied, how they're getting on, I might read their TV if upload if they've uploaded it, and I'll look at the appointment request and sort of see what it is they want to chat about. And you know, he had

Alternative Learning And Music-Based Education

SPEAKER_02 58:40

been working on a project with in like a business solving uh like a business problem. I can't remember the exact topic, I'm really sorry, but I looked at his credentials, his his stage, his age, all of that, and I thought, I'm still quite new in this role. What what value can I add? And my confidence wasn't the highest, and I thought he's at a PhD level, he's far more, you know, I've studied to degree level, but I'm not sure if I can add any value here. So it's a bit twofold. Um and I met with him, and it was a really interesting conversation that we had, and we probably spoke for about an hour together. Um, and I didn't find him a graduate job in that hour, you know, I didn't answer every single question he had, I didn't fix everything in that hour, and that's it's me learning that that's not my role. Um, but we had a really interesting discussion about personal confidence and professional confidence and the difference between the two and what it means to sort of move forward with with some degree of confidence. Um so in this instance, this person had done really well in the field of academia, studying, working on that thesis for the past few years. But when it came to sort of transitioning in out of study or out of the bubble of academia and the university and into the wider world, there was that real um uncertainty. And I can sense that. And all I can say is if there, if there's a couple of things I'd share, sort of nugget points, is I cannot stress, it doesn't matter what level of study you're at, if you don't know what your next step is, or you're not, you don't have like a defined legal pathway if you study, you've studied law, or you don't have that um role as a doctor if you've studied graduate medicine, if you don't know what comes next, I cannot stress enough how universal that wobbly feeling is, that feeling that you're stepping into that sort of no man's land. There's this tunnel, if you like, or this transition. And it's not, oh, I've finished my um PhD and the next day I'm a graduate employee or a graduate business owner. There's this, yeah, there's this, I don't want to say no man's land, but there's that period in between. Um, and I cannot, I just want to say that's a really universal feeling. It doesn't matter if you're an undergraduate or you've got two PhDs, if you don't know what comes next and you're leaving education, it's it can affect your confidence. That's absolutely normal. And if it didn't, I would almost think, what's wrong here? Um and and the other thing I realized from that conversation is because we had a talk about confidence itself, and he was really surprised when I admitted, I said, I wasn't certain how much I could help you. And he said, Oh, you came across very confident. I said, Well, I'm feeling more confident now because throughout this conversation and this appointment, I'm seeing where I can help you and the conversation's going somewhere. But that helped him, and I rem remember seeing the penny drop for this PhD student. Um, when we I I just said confidence in yourself and in your career. Yes, I suppose there should be this upward trend. It should over time um your comfort level of what you can do and what you're capable of and and your skills that should expand and grow. But confidence is not this sort of flat line thing that's always steady and always high, even on a daily basis. It's it's I always use the analogy that it is a wave and um this fully formed self-confidence that never fluctuates or only ever improves is an absolute myth. And once students or new graduates realize that it's about learning to ride that wave of and have you know, understand you will have those days where you maybe don't feel like you're the best at your job or where you're not really certain what comes next. Um, even if that lasts a few weeks or a few months, it's the resilience comes from being in it and riding out that wave. Um sorry to use the the the same analogy, Nathan. But um, you know, if you try and uh sort of steal yourself and be resilient all the time and keep your confidence high, um you'll struggle more than you than you need to. Whereas if you think this is gonna be bumpy, I'm gonna learn to ride that out. And I tend to speak in analogies quite a lot of the time, but on a practical level, it's just understanding. That student learned that I didn't have this high level of confidence that was always there. And I even questioned what value I could add. And he said, This this can't, I've never had a conversation like this with somebody before. Um, and you know, it's we're in partial service, and I try to be helpful um and make it about that student, not about me. But it helped, I think, having that human conversation as well. That particularly the age we live in, career is such an aspirational thing, and life has become so aspirational that it's got this aesthetic to it, that it looks pleasing and it always feels good. And confidence is the ultimate prize that you can win. Um, and it I just kind of want to bust that myth somewhat because uh there are days I feel like I'm really great at my job and I feel like I'm really um in control of it and I feel really comfortable with what I do, or I feel like I've been challenged, and there are days where I just think I need to do a bit more reading up on this, you know, I need to do a bit more learning or that presentation. Oh my gosh, I must have I didn't sleep well last night and I that I came across quite nervous. So um if you can learn to deal with a fluctuation of confidence and understand that it's not always something to sort of steal yourself against, but you build it over time, and it's still okay if like Nathan now, 20 years or however many years into having your own business, um, it's okay if not everything goes well all the time. Um, and that's the biggest message I'd wanted to get across to to PhD students now is the universal feeling of of um stepping out into the unknown and that lack of confidence where you've been confident for four years because you've been in your comfort zone of academia, but also just um yeah, don't strive for this confidence level or um feeling of um always getting it right and this perfect career that kind of needs to be put to one side and it's about working through the struggle. Um and sometimes it's about surviving the day or the week or the month or whatever it is. Um and still very much we're always figuring things out. So I've been working now for sort of 20 years, and you know, people say, Oh, do you love, you know, do you know what you did you always know what you wanted to do? And I go, any day now I'll figure it out, you know. It's the progress bit of it, and I'm sure Nathan's gonna say, that never stops. Like even once you attain a certain level, there's something in you that wants to try something new, or wants to maybe take your business to the next level, or um worries about what what will life look like in five years or ten years? Can I sustain this? Um and so yeah, just don't don't worry too much about this high level of confidence that you have to have. It's those who learn to ride it out, is what I'm saying, that um tend to be the most resilient and and do the best in life, not those who appear confident all the time. Um that was my sort of medium to long answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

So as uh well uh as I was um checking that Miriam will have to leave now. And uh just Miriam, would you like to share just your own thoughts of in a quick way uh if you have any advice for those who who want to take a PhD and also uh focusing on what Jade has said, do you have any any thoughts, any advice?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Yeah, um I I recently wrote a book, um, and there I also thank you. Um and there one chapter is also about uh confidence or the imposture syndrome. And I also hear that from PhDs a lot, and even from postdocs, and wherever they go, they're still met with the impostor, right? And I I like to look at it now from like two angles. Um one is if your impostor speaks up, then congratulations, kind of thing, because you're reaching your comfort zone. The impostor wouldn't raise its head if you're doing something that you've been doing for so long, right? Like it wouldn't it doesn't raise its head if you're cooking, if you're walking, if you're writing, if you are speaking

Confidence, Impostor Syndrome, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

your first language or even your second. Like it's it's not gonna say anything. But as soon as we get to something that we haven't done before and where we feel insecure, then it's like, are you sure you can do this? Like rather keep it low. And in that sense, it's also trying to protect us, right? It's trying to protect us from being excluded from the group, from doing something that's potentially dangerous. Um, so I think that angle helps me at least, um, often. And the other one is kind of looking backwards. Like, when did I have this feeling of not being confident enough in the past, but I don't have it anymore now. Like I mentioned me speaking English before. I was so stressed when I had to speak English a few years ago. So stressed. I was thinking about everything. Single one, I was speaking about my pronunciation. I couldn't really focus on the what was the person saying because I was so stressed of like I need to understand what they're saying, and I need to have an answer that makes sense and that the grammar is correct, and da da da da. And this is not there anymore. But it was there very much. And there's so many other examples that I can give you where I didn't feel confident at all, which now I feel confident about. But that just brings me to the next level. So now I have new subjects where I don't feel confident about. And there's always gonna be things that I don't feel confident about because as a human being, we want to grow. And growing means to cross the border of our confidence. So that that kind of helps me. Not all day, every day, but to a to a good extent.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:46

So I think that would be a great advice for for PhDs and those also and those for those who who want to uh go try try and to uh establish found and establish their own businesses to the list. So before just before you you you leave, Miriam, where did they where can they find uh one time? You also said do you have a podcast with the under the same name? Yes, where where they can where they can find you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Um yeah, it's one time.eu, that's the web page. Uh podcast of the same name, it's on Spotify, Apple, YouTube. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, then you can actually write me something or ask a question, complain, whatever you feel like doing. I'm always happy to get in contact. Um, so yeah, either way would be really nice. And then I'm sorry that I gotta leave now.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

No, no problem at all. We we we'll we we thank you for for your time. And uh Jade Nathan, uh, shall we continue? Because we would like to hear Nathan's uh side of the story and uh continue with that. And for students and graduates, make sure to uh check out Miriam's uh one time podcast and her business if you have any concerns and dealing with time management and stress and and any other uh human trait that you are facing challenges. Just shout out to uh check out Miriam and she will be very helpful.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, everyone welcome. Yeah, and thank you so much. It was so nice to meet you. Thanks. Yeah, lovely to meet you. Thank you for the invite, Luis.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

And no problem at all. Let's stay in touch, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Yes, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

Lovely to meet you too.

unknown 1:11:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

All right, so just the three of us.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

And then number three.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:36

Number three.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:37

I'm gonna just clog my computer in, guys, because it's it's on the and I need just to have a quick break and then we will we will write back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

I will add the test uh anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:45

Oh, brilliant, lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Just turn off the camera for a bit. I'll be right back. Okay, fab. We're back, students and graduates, uh, after a short break where Miriam shared her her own story and also any advice. Uh but we will continue and still want to hear about uh Nathan. Jade has already shared her her time, her story at of a struggling time with a PhD. I'd like to hear about Nathan if you had to deal with a business who wanted to work with you and how how did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

Yeah, I mean I I think on the on the points that Miriam and Jade kind of raised and about kind of confidence, I think they were hit the nail on the head, really. Um to be honest with you. Um I think they were both kind of spot on. Like obviously, again, everyone you know goes through things differently in their own um way, but I think the way Jade described it as like a wave, I think that's kind of perfect, isn't it? You know, everyone has days where they can take on the world. And don't get me wrong, I think especially maybe with a business, but I think also in employment, like sometimes you just have to do it. It doesn't matter how you feel. I mean, Jade mentioned feeling a bit nervous, maybe before you know some um scenarios um at some point, but but in scenarios like that, you just gotta fake it, and you you know, once you get it once you get into that rhythm, obviously you know you can do it and you've got the experience and the confidence, and I think that kind of gets you through. Um the same with Miriam describing it, you know, the imposter syndrome thing. I think that's definitely um you know a real thing, but I love the way she explained that and she looked at it from a positive side, which I think is really, really cool. And I think you know, a lot of people, myself included, can take yeah, take a lot from that and the way that was explained um by her as well. So yeah, I remember, you know, I always look at it like a computer game, you know, similar to the wave um in different levels basically. Um and again it it was discussed by um by both ladies, you know, how when you go through certain levels you you unlock different challenges, and obviously you can feel a bit unconfident in them at the start, but then once you get into it and realize you can do it, you kind of pass the level and you move to the next level. So I think my thoughts are kind of a combination of of both, really. Um in terms of it's good to sometimes kind of have them challenges, you know, whether that kind of manifests as like self-doubt or you know, stress or thinking you can't do something. But I think you've got to have that side to have the other side then of doing it and thinking, oh yeah, you know, I did it. But it's but it's back to my kind of personal mantra that if you you know if you put the work in um and you've got that self-belief, you know, you can you can get over them hurdles and you can unlock the next level, really. Um I'm trying to think like there's many kind of you know stories I could kind of tell really to kind of sum it up um in an anecdote for you guys in a personal experience. But I guess one of my kind of favourites is kind of at the start where I had the opportunity to kind of well basically to set the scene, you know, we we were in the minus figure in the early days, um, it was not going well, there were loans to be paid back, and um I had the opportunity to invite again, I'd always look for that opportunity. And I remember um meeting a really nice guy, a director of the the Princess Trust at the time, and he's like, Any is there anything I can help with? And um I basically looked in my kind of little black book at the time and found his number, and then he invited me to this press conference, and I didn't realise till I got there that I had the opportunity to ask a question to the Prime Minister. But I knew that I had to do something on that day to basically kind of kickstart the business. There was no money for marketing. Um and I found myself in a room, you know, with like I don't know, like 300 people, whatever it was, and all the kind of press and um the prime minister and everything being interviewed, and I thought, well, I've never done any public speaking, how am I gonna speak in front of these people? You know, I didn't even spoke in university for a few months. Um so like how am I gonna do this? But again, I think it's that voice within, isn't it, where you're like, okay, well, I've got to do this. If I don't do this, you know, and there's no guarantee obviously anything will happen as a result of it. But if I don't at least do it, I'm not gonna have like got on to this next level, you know, gonna be stuck at this level where you think that you can't do it. So um so in my in my in this case, and I did it and I told him, and again, if this is always the case, you know, even with a lack of confidence, it tends to be that we still know a lot more than we um give ourselves credit for in the area, you know, it's almost that kind of monkey brain holding us back basically and saying that you can't do it, when in reality, if you are worrying and having a confidence about something, you probably spent like however long going over and over it anyway, so you do actually know it. So I told um the Prime Minister about what we wanted to achieve with um Learn Through Music, which was the brand with the GCSE resources. Um he basically said it sounds great, whatever. And as we were having this dialogue, I got more and more confident in it. So I'm like saying to him, Oh, you must you must remember that which is your favourite songs, and um it was quite funny actually, because then he was the one nervous because the interviewer sensed his nervousness and kind of changed uh tact with the interview a little bit, so it's funny seeing him under pressure. Um, and then as a result of that, basically guess the term now is we went viral. So I did like interviews with every TV station, radio show um in Wales and and the UK, and then also in um countries as far afield as you know, Russia, Mexico, um the front page of Times Education uh two days later. Um, and yeah, basically we sold about 30,000 licenses off the back of that. So it it just kind of really kickstarted everything, and it was funny. I always think I went into that room the most kind of nervous person with kind of everything on the line, and then by the end of it, I'm sat in the chair at the front, ultimately kind of giving my own press conference. So it just shows, I guess, if you take that chance, even if you think you can't do it, you know, the chances are that you can. I'm not recommending people go and take up like swinging from ropes, you know, from 50 feet up if they think they can do it. Um, obviously, you need to have like kind of foundation in what you're doing, but at the same time, if you really want to swing from that rope 50 feet up, you put the work in, and one day you will, you know, it's as simple as that, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:16

You don't ask, you don't get.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:17

Yeah, exactly. Who was the prime minister at the time? Um at the time it was Gordon Brown.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:24

So I I have no known. Oh, I only have known from Tony Blair, and then the next you said George. It was George, you said uh Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, Gordon, and then David Cameron, and then the rest we know.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:40

I mean, I I I'll I'll be honest, I don't think I would have been able to do that maybe um now or in the in the in the last 14 you know plus years just because yeah, um I won't go into my view on politicians, but yeah, we'll leave it there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:54

But it's it's interesting that that you said that it was the prime minister who was more nervous in hearing you than than yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:04

By the end, it's credible. I think the the the reason was because they were asking him questions, obviously, where he had to uh ultimately try and show a personality. So when they said, Oh, what music do you like, he's thinking, oh oh what you know, what what shall I say? What am I gonna say here that's gonna like um appeal to people, I guess. And you know, looking at his um his personal kind of aids and everybody to think, oh, what do I say? You know, this is this has gone off script here. Um but it was a funny moment, you know, on that as well. When he did say to me, he said, Oh look, you know, we'll we'll we'll speak to you about this and we'll see what we can do. And then I sat back down thinking, oh, you know, that's not gonna happen. And then the tap on the shoulder from someone giving me this card, and it was effectively like the Prime Minister's like business card, you know, like number 10 down history and all these details. And um we did end up being put on a on a project, uh music-based project in England uh as well. So yeah, you know, it was um funny day that, but one that I've learned to expect, you know, days like that do happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

And I think it's all about as you said, is finding uh any gaps that we have in ourselves, and we're speaking about confidence very very often throughout the talk. And I think it's again through trial and error and using that best to improve in ourselves. I can speak also from my from my personal experience when I started my undergraduate that I wasn't really good at public speaking. And uh one of the greatest advantages that uh on my on my degree on cultural heritage in archaeology, we were pushed by the lecturers to uh speak in public because that's what a that's what a cultural heritage officer does speaking in public. And that helped me a lot to be to uh uh move a bit and trying to understand the the game of the of being in front of an audience and explain to that, which led me to now what I'm currently doing, albeit in front of a camera, which is a bit more awkward in the sense because trying to make exercise uh my eyes to speak in front of the camera in the middle of the desktop rather than on the corner and then looking at the people. But um again, that's also what takes for for a PhD as well. And as Jade also uh shared her her time uh her story about a PhD be increasing her confidence its its confidence uh in trying to transition from uh an academic uh lens to an industry uh scope.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:49

Yeah, 100%. I think confidence is key, isn't it? You know, whether again, if you have to fake it, sometimes it's all part of that journey, you know, to get where you want to be. Ultimately it's having the confidence to do what you want to do, isn't it? As well, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:01

And realising that not every step or every task, you could love

Prime Minister Moment And Going Viral

SPEAKER_02 1:22:05

your job and still not like 70% of the tasks you do. It's Nathan, like Nathan said, you do it to get it done because the bigger picture or the bigger reward is there. Um so there's a lot that goes into it and investing that you have to to to do to get the output, and the output is fun and that sense of satisfaction. But there's a lot of uh for myself, you know, there's a lot of like boring tasks, emails, there's a lot of reminders, there's a lot of admin around it. Um I still love what I do, but it doesn't mean that I enjoy everything. Um sometimes, like you said, it's just let's just get on with things.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

Yeah, it's like you said as well, Judy. There's no like people get fixated on this perfect kind of um vision of what something is, you know, whether that's a job, and like you said, it with confidence and stuff, you know. And in reality, it's not like that, is it? You know, everything is like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

Yeah, it's it's all life, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Separate from our life, it's all sort of woven in and it's all it's all life and good, the bad, and some of it's ugly.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

Yeah, exactly. But it's I think it's like like it's that scripting mentality, isn't it, to kind of um almost like accept that, yes, you know, and and not go searching for this perfect kind of vision that ultimately kind of doesn't exist, you know, and probably worse now when it's portrayed on social media and everything else as existing as well, isn't it? You know, false perception of what you can achieve, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

We're here to de-influence careers, it's de-influencing and it's um almost like finding joy or finding satisfaction in in whatever it is you're doing on a day-to-day basis. I've loved this. Like I think I could do this again. This is good fun. It's not something I've done before, but um it's it's finding what you enjoy and um just yeah, just getting on with it as well, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

And treat it like a like a video game.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:52

Treat it like or a surfing session, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:57

Oh no, that was the one thing that was missing over Christmas, sadly. I can imagine in some waves, no doubt, no doubt. Now I'm back in the office, it'll be it'll be on later in the media. There we go. That's good. It's guaranteed.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

So before the before we we wrap up, would you like do you guys have any any other things that would like to share any upcoming uh upcoming projects? Nathan and Jay do you have to start with Jay. Do it is Aspire to be coming back for this time.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:28

Oh that's really interesting. Um we don't know yet. We haven't had that conversation. Um, so uh do you mean iBroadcast for the i the i broadcast aspire to be the company and we worked with iBroadcast, the um sort of the five-day residential media program. We don't know yet, um, definitely at some point in the future. Um, no plans for it to be this term, um, but we do see a lot of benefit from it. So we are the thing, what I love about what I get what I get to do is that we can try things and we can try other things and try new things, and we get to just put feelers out and see what works and what doesn't. So one thing that we are doing, and we started it last term, is we've put together, we've never done it before, um, a series of teaching sessions that we deliver rather than outsourcing that delivery. So, you know, I've got years of experience now working in in employability or in in industry. Um, so we are doing a set uh series called Boost Your series. Um it might be Boost Your Resilience, it might be Boost Your Brilliant Brain if you're neurodiverse, it might be um I'm trying to think of all the other sessions now, Boost Your AI. So if you if you want to learn more about AI, and we are actually delivering them as a team. So we will have some sessions on both campuses coming up this term from February onwards the students can sign up to if they want. I would say if again, going back to you don't know what you don't know, as a starting point, if anybody wants, even if they don't know why they're coming to the appointment, they just know they need to start somewhere and have a conversation of some type, look at the careers and employability web pages and look where you can book an appointment with an advisor, whether that's a careers advisor or a career consultant or a career boost advisor, which is what I am, um, book that first appointment. Yeah. Even if you want to set up your own business, because we can signpost you to the right resources. So we do I do a lot of referrals and a lot of signposting. I can have that one-on-one conversation with somebody and tell them what events or workshops are going on that might be suitable for them. So I would say that the starting point is always, you know, get on the website, book an appointment. Um, even if you're not sure if it's with the right person, get to somebody in careers. They can signpost you to the right person. Um, and then we can take it from there. But that um reaching out and booking that first appointment is is what's going to kickstart everything for them. Um but in terms of events and workshops, there's always something new that that we are creating or um looking. And we want to listen to our students, that's a big thing a lot because we are funded by Welsh Government. We student voice is really important to us, and I only learn about what students really need if they come and meet with us. Um, and then we can um respond to that need and and what they're looking for, and you know, um offer something that's hopefully valuable to them. Um, but yeah, get in touch and book that first appointment, and that's a really good starting point, I'd say. Um, and then yeah, we'll go from there.

unknown 1:27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:36

Well, what's your yeah, I would say the same, really, like advice to anybody really they follow your um follow your get follow your heart, um, believe in yourself, don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to kind of ride that wave whether you think it's kind of stuck now, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's funny, I always say similar with the roller coaster. It's like don't be afraid when you're at the bottom. Because only we're weighing us up, and again, you know, you you will get there if people believe uh in yourself, basically. Um, everyone on the on the call today is kind of testament to that with your personal journeys as well. Um for us, you know, we've got another busy year, we're kind of all over, um we're yeah, heading out on a few uh international trips to kind of broaden our partnerships um kind of uh fab, and then we've got a load of different projects uh on the go as diverse as trying to tackle uh toxic masculinity um within kind of colleges with pre and post 16 um learners, um, to teaching people skills for the new kind of green economy, um, to helping people move into career progressions uh within that as well, to get young people to make videos about their local communities to see opportunities, you know, and then there's like You know, seven other projects in between which involve making new STEM kits for clients as well. So it's uh yeah, it's a busy start to the year as always. And you know, my my advice for everyone again would be you know if you especially if you're in this one of the university, go and speak to Jade. Um I think you know, having having worked with Jade myself and then ultimately worked with Luish as well, um, you know, I I can see the benefits of the scheme that Jade runs, not just for um organizations like mine, but also for people like Luish, who has been you know pleasure to work with and and to see see your growth, Luish as an individual and everything you've achieved, the PhD to get in the podcast running, um, and you know, seeing the drive that you have, you know, that that um is I would say as beneficial to me, you know, as as obviously having someone come and help us as a business, you know, seeing what um the people achieve in that role. So definitely reach out to Jade. Um also everyone should read Miriam's book as well, having heard um her theories. Um yeah, wish everyone a kind of a successful 2026 um and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

Yeah, and I also want to thank uh to Jade as well for providing me providing the opportunity for me to meet Nathan and uh work with him and have having further opportunities to to work with Nathan. And uh it's I think 2026 is gonna be just like 2025, uh 2026 will be even better. So and Nathan, this is this this is the the opportunity for you to go to Nazareth and swimming the big waves, so by the way, if you want to try it out, okay. If not, you can still you can still go to the the other um uh

Riding The Wave: Realistic Careers

SPEAKER_00 1:30:40

town nearby Nazareth called Panish, but it's more about tubes. So super tubes, and you can go. It's really lovely. The Piscatori town, same go same as Nazareth Nazareth. But it's but I think it would be better to go to the former and you could meet directly Gareth McNamara.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:58

I think so. I think one day it would be good to go with yourself, Luis.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:01

Yes, uh take a take an espresso, take a Portuguese espresso.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:05

100%, 100%. I'll I'll hold you to that. If if it doesn't happen in 2026, then definitely in the next few years, 100%. I look forward to us meeting for a nice uh coffee, whether that's South Argab or anywhere in Portugal, and obviously in Wales as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:20

Yes, I'm going there next month, actually. I'm going there next month in February to just to get some heat as well. Yeah, escape the cold. Escape the cold.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:31

I don't blame you. I don't blame you.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:34

I will, I just I just wanted to add, sorry, this is a really nice full circle moment because obviously, like you said, and I don't know whether I explained it earlier, you started the iBroadcast, didn't you? And then went on to do an internship with Nathan. Um, and and a lot of what we do is supporting the employers as well as students. But off the back of this, Luis, this is your business. And you have still have I have to mention it, you have now taken students for work tasters and work experience. And so Luis has become an employer. And I'm like, how great is that? This is like a really nice full circle moment of um seeing that everything come together and um the student become the master. Um and yeah, it's a great start to the year, and I think it's gonna be a really good year for you as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:19

It sums up everything we've talked about in that circle as well, doesn't it? So it's it's great, yeah. Absolutely. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:25

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:27

Thank you, thank you so much. And just a quick where where students and graduates can follow you to connect with, and also students, Swansea Uni students, just reach out to Jade.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:39

So for me, I'd say get on the web pages. So it's Swan's University Careers and Employability. That's what our service is called, and within that you'll find information about Career Boost or about the central service where students can book an appointment. Once you've got that link to an appointment, you can basically choose whether you want a one-to-one guidance appointment with an advisor or you want a career boost appointment. Um we have a lot of tools and resources online, but don't worry about figuring everything out once you've got that appointment or you've met with somebody. Um, we can sign post students to what they need. But yeah, get on the the Careers and Employability webpage and and either speak to us or have a look at some of the resources. Um if somebody wants to to drop an email and they are listening to this, we've got an inbox with careerboost at swanse.ac.uk. Um, and that's a good central point to get in touch with me as well. So yeah, that's it.

unknown 1:33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:34

Nathan.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:36

I yeah, I would say if anyone's interested in in the work that we do, um or yeah, would like any advice, or just like you reach out to us in general. Uh our website is rewise.co.uk, um, and you can contact us via the contact form, and um we'll always get back to people.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:53

Okay, so thank you to both of you and Medium as well. And I just say for the students and graduates who are tuning in to this, uh, all the best for your exams, first and foremost, and uh just reach them out, and yeah, I'm sure you will have a great time. So thank you all for tuning in, and it has been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

Thank you, Luis. Obrigado, and I may look forward to catching up with you um in the coming weeks, and maybe when you're back from Portugal, we'll we'll grab a coffee as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:25

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:27

And we'll do a mock interview at some point. Yes, and Jade, join on join on board as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:35

And I I dare say I'll speak to you soon, Jade, as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:37

Okay, take care, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:39

Take care, bye-bye.