Late-Night Talk: Ersin Hussein, PhD. A PhD Can Change Your Life Without Promising A Job

Students and Graduates!

Ersin Hussein, PhD, is an ancient historian whose work centres on the history and material culture of ancient Cyprus, with a particular emphasis on questions of identity and heritage. A consistent thread throughout her scholarship is the study of Cyprus as both a real and imagined space, shaped by historical narratives, artistic responses, and museological practices. Ersin’s interests also extend to the historiography and display of Cypriot artefacts, and the reception of Cyprus in visual art, contributing to broader debates around cultural heritage and the politics of representation.

Monograph: Revaluing Roman Cyprus: Local Identity on an Island in Antiquity.

Ersin is co-founder and co-director of two interdisciplinary research networks. OLCAP (Object and Landscape Centred Approaches to the Past).

Teaching Ancient Cyprus Network

Outreach work: Romans in Focus educational video series for the Cambridge Schools Classics Project.

Ancient History conversations on London Greek Radio and From Root to Vine Podcast

Thank you all for tuning in, it has been a pleasure!

Transcript

Welcome And How We Know

SPEAKER_04 3:16

So Ersin, welcome and thank you so much. And we've tried to schedule a con a podcast conversation and we've made it and we are here. So welcome.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yes, thank you so much, Louise. I am so grateful for you really accommodating my timetable and you know working around what I'm doing at the moment. And I'm really grateful for your sort of understanding on that front and for making the time for me to. I don't know what's gonna happen in this conversation, really. Um but I'm just really looking forward to actually sitting down and chatting with you, having a nice chat actually, in a way that we probably haven't been able to do so for a while. Exactly. Um can can I say on the podcast I was your internal examiner for your PhD thesis? Um, first of all, congratulations, because that was such a great viber to be involved in, and I really enjoyed reading your thesis. Um there was so much commonality there in terms of some of the ideas that we explore and think about. And um, yeah, your viber, Louise, honestly, it's one of those viors that will stay with me because of how professionally you conducted yourself and how prepared you were. And we had such a good chat with Eve and obviously with the chair as well. So yeah, it was just wonderful. So really well done. And I'm hoping in this chat we hear a little bit more about what you're doing next as well. So it'll be really cool.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Thank you, Arson, for the kind words. And yes, going backtracking for the for the exam. They we were having the mock viva where with Stephen and Nigel, and they were saying, Are you feeling nervous to see a little bit? But at the same time, I do look forward for this, and yes, because it's gonna be a it's gonna be a conversation and say like this. Oh, I know it's gonna be an exam, but I'm going to try to treat it as a as a conversation, as if we were at a at a coffee shop or so like that. But obviously in a professional atmosphere, of course, but at the same time just thinking, okay, I'm just gonna say what I know in my across my thesis. Obviously, it's not gonna be that much of a perfect, but whatever I say, I can see as it would be evaluated, it's gonna be fantastic, it's gonna be it would be a really professional, casual conversation. Yes, that's what I thought about.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I suppose it's it's weird for people to say you've got to look forward to it and enjoy it, but you must because you know this is an opportunity where people have really, really engaged with your work closely. Yes, and you're gonna have this really in-depth discussion, but you're not just discussing the thesis. There's you know, depending on the viber and what you are doing the PhD for, there's conversations around what next as well. Yes, and it was really good to have that in your Viber. So it was, yeah, I really enjoyed it. It was it was bad.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

How was your Viber?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Quick, it felt really quick. I mean, my memory of it was gosh, this was back in September 2014, my Viber. So I remember going up to Warwick uh University, and my

The Viva As A Conversation

SPEAKER_00 6:32

mum sort of drove me up. She was like sort of hovering outside the building as I went in. And my mum is just such a wonderful support for me. And I probably will talk a bit about her in this, not trying to be fuzzy and mushy, but she's always been there for me in terms of supporting my, you know, what I'm doing. So that was a really nice moment. And I remember the door opening, and my internal examiner sort of smiled and ushered me in. And um, my external was um David Potter, Professor David Potter, he's at Michigan University, so he was on a big screen as I walked in. So we sort of did it hybrid, and it was great. It was it was all the sort of expected questions, you know, explain your thesis, the process, a bit of a deep dive in the different chapters, and then there was just a really nice, relaxed discussion at the end about what to do next, and you know, some advice about publication, that type of thing. And yeah, it it felt really surreal because it didn't feel like it was happening in a weird way, because it was so pleasant. They asked me tough questions, they gave me lots of advice, and obviously there were things I had to go off and work on, but minor corrections, and it was just great. So, yeah, it was a really, really nice day.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

Oh, I can see it was just the traditional questions as as it happened in my vibe as well. And so I wonder which one did you find more challenging when David Professor David Potter asked you a question where you found a bit of hardship to grasp your answer?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I think I can't remember the minutiae. I always struggle with trying to condense information into a really quick answer. So the summarize your thesis, that type of stuff, I always find quite challenging. I'm not gonna lie, and even sort of several years down the line in this profession, it's hard for me to be succinct because I want to say everything and you know do it in a you know, joyful way and go into the detail. But that's a skill where you have to pull things back. I remember there being discussions that I know I know I needed to go off and think about more that concerned what how Cypriots and in the Roman period were articulating their identity and what how that compared with other landscapes in the epigraphic record, because my thesis looked at local identity formation and responses to imperial rule, predominantly looking obviously at the at the elites because they're the ones that feature prominently on you know epigraphic material on inscriptions. Um, and yes, so there were questions there about how those trends concerning Cyprus and what they're what Cypriots are doing outside the island, how that compares with other contexts and other communities. So I remember that being something I had to really go away and think about a little bit more after the vibe, and I was you know thinking about what to do with things, so yeah, there was things, things like that.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

So that was your uh your whole research project then. Yes, my Roman Cyprus.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

My PhD was on Roman Cyprus, and a lot of people at the time were like, why? You know, like why are you bothering looking at this place? And that's the point, you know. I I started reading about Roman Cyprus, and it was you know, still hanging on to some sort of ideas and interpretations that were quite impressionistic and quite rooted in ideas of their time that were formed in the mid-you know, the early in the mid-20th century, and it was really clear that what was going on in Roman Cyprus was dynamic, locally driven, but there's the veneer of Roman imperial rule and the responses to that, which I think you have to dig a bit deeper in terms of the evidence and um find the nuance in the interpretation. So that's what my thesis was trying to do. It was trying to address some of those very traditional interpretations that presented it as a backwater of the Roman Empire. And yeah, in many ways, yeah. But you know, when you stop looking at the island from the perspective of Roman Italy and actually immerse yourself in the island's culture and identity of the time and look outwards from the island, you get a very different picture of what's going on because you're thinking about local connections and you're thinking about regionalism and you're thinking about that sort of connectivity with all the spaces around it, and that includes Italy in terms of that connection, but there are other deep-rooted things going on there that the priority needs to be on, so yeah, that's what the thesis was doing. It was shifting the perspective, you know, the the case was to we need to shift the perspective.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

So it was more looking rather at the Cypriot context within the the Imperial administration over there, and not and trying to approach it by for what you're saying, approach it by researching the local the local area, but also the what the other external influences that then was integrated and would that shape the identity or just maintaining the identity of of local Cypriots?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Was it from around that?

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yes. Spot on. You get a first.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

So I guess it would be something quite quite uh similar to what I've to also what I did.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Right?

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Exactly, and all the the post-colonial theory that you you engaged with, and you know, such a authority over that spoke to me in terms of you know, how do we how do we enter the foray? You know, how do we unpack all this, you know, really complex narrative and how do we, you know, build build a picture where there's more nuance. We're never going to know 100%,

Summarising A Thesis Under Pressure

SPEAKER_00 13:09

sure, but it's about asking interesting questions and open keeping the conversation open rather. What what I felt when I was reading about Roman Cyprus um before I started my PhD, and this helped me formulate the question or the questions that I wanted to explore. It felt that there's been a there was a wealth of research on the Roman period in the 20th century, but it it it kind of closed the conversation, it didn't open it up. Um, and that's no fault of anybody, you know, there's there was some there's some fantastic scholars, and their legacy is really important when we look at what how Roman Cyprus was engaged with and investigated. But yeah, I it it felt it felt very timely because there's a lot of really exciting work happening on Hellenistic or Ptolemaic Cyprus and Roman Cyprus, and I I feel really it feels really good to be part of that conversation, and that conversation is still going on, and I think there's a lot of a lot of leg, you know, legs in it, if that's the right phrase, you know. So yeah, there's a lot of exciting stuff on those theorem.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

It is so fascinating, uh Erson, as you touch upon that if for being a small a small geographical isle island, almost close to the coast, the eastern coast of the Mediterranean, it has such such a massive history behind it. I mean, we know there's a lot of pre-Roman presence, like you say the Phoenicians and the local Cyprus over there at the time, and and then Hellenistic, Roman, post-Roman. That's that's such a fascinating, but for shifting the focus on the ancient world, we we we had a a plethora of of cultures there that interacted, exchanged, even integrated, and there's always this kind of a biased

Reframing Roman Cyprus From Within

SPEAKER_04 15:03

perspective by looking at the sources without focusing too much on what the actual tangible evidence is out there.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yes, right, absolutely, Louise, and with Rome and Cyprus in particular, you have very few written sources that tell you, you know, they present such a vague and impressionistic picture of the island, and they're written by people who haven't set foot there, that type of thing. You know, it's all at arm's length, and the aims of their work is to promote other ideals, and so you have to sort of unpick all of that and pay really close attention to the archaeology and the landscape and the environment as well. Uh, so yeah, that was it was it was a great project, sure. And I didn't it's really strange, I didn't expect that I would stay with it after my PhD, and I that's such a naive and daft thing to think because you know I've got a very strong connection with the island because it's where my family are from. Um, I grew up in the UK, but I've you know always had this very strong pull and you know feel with the island. Um I feel like that's you know, I feel my my home is is several places, and Cyprus is a big part of that profile. Yeah, so yeah, I don't know why I came out of the PhD thinking that's it, I'm not gonna look at Cyprus again. You know, it was so naive of me, and really um yeah, it was it was uh um it's it's it's it's become a really important aspect of um the work that I'm I'm doing and it take it takes me in lots of directions that I didn't necessarily anticipate. And um, yeah, so I hope we we can we can talk about some of that and relate that to sort of PhD.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

What happens afterwards. Because I was really interested in knowing uh if you because you said you you followed up the your PhD research after passing the vice after doing the corrections and after doing the cylinder to the vice-chancellor during the during the ceremony. And and I so that's why I wonder what what did you do during your your post PhD journey until you got until you got a job offer um at Swansea University? Because I I was really interested to know. We've we've chatted before, but I'd like to know a bit more how how you surpassed those those challenges of trying to look any job employment, any any employment opportunity until you had this this opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I think I'm gonna have to go back a bit if that's okay. So can I can I go back to before I did the PhD?

SPEAKER_04 18:05

No problem, no problem at all. This is just having a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I think oh, I'm just trying to think here how to articulate this because as we all know, doing a PhD is never a guarantee for a job. Yeah. Um, and that's I'm not saying that to put people off from doing it, it's just realistic. And the years after submitting my PhD, I had a couple of years that felt quite fraught. I think fraught is the word I would use because it was this constant hustle. And academia is a hustle these days, I think. It's in terms of you've got to be flexible, you've got to be creative, and you've got to work with lots of networks of people. And you know, you know, I couldn't do what I do without, you know, my friends, whether they're in academia or not, in terms of leaning on them for advice or bouncing ideas off them. Um, and of course, my family and my my big support network is you know, it's my husband and my mum. Um and in terms of that hustle afterwards, that constantly applying for jobs, I've applied for everything. And I felt I felt quite prepared for that because if we go way back, um I didn't plan to do a PhD. No, and I didn't expect to get a job in academia afterwards, and my route to doing the PhD was quite it's unique to me. Everybody has a unique story. I actually did my undergrad degree in straight classics. I then um had a year out where I worked. I'm not from a family where the inherited vocabulary was around academia. I come from, you know, a family where, you know, my grandparents they moved to the UK in the 1950s. They did what

What Happens After The PhD

SPEAKER_00 20:09

the majority of good Cypriots do. They like had fish and chip shops, you know. We everyone in my family are, you know, there's they they uh have set up their own businesses and they've worked in like catering or hosting, you know, hospitality, those types of industries, or they've worked with with their hands. And it's I've just been from a family where it was the the the reflex was always this you've got to work really hard, you've got to fight for your place here, you've got to take every opportunity that you can. And my mum was a single mother, she raised me, it was uh very challenging at times for us, but the thing that she always instilled in me was your education will give you choices. Always that was her thing that she always wanted to instill in me, and again, like many people who find their way into academia, you have the stars align at weird points, and you sort of take opportunities when you can. And there are two moments in my in my education history that really stand out as sort of willy wonker golden ticket moments, and I I will and I know I've gone back quite a bit, but I think it's really important to mention this because this really feeds into a lot of the ethos in terms of some of the things I do and the choices I make now, but it also speaks to some of the challenges of classics as a subject area or a subject group in education today. So when I was about 11, I got um a scholarship to go to um a very high-profile um private school in the UK. I went to the Cheltenham Ladies College, it was one of those schemes where it was a government-assisted bursary, so this my school fees were paid for. So it was one of those types of scholarships, and the aim of it was to aid social mobility. So it was there was without that type of lucky break, I would never have got into a school like that, and I would never have been introduced to the classics in the ancient world in the way that has sparked the curiosity for me that made made me go on to study it at undergraduate level. So from a very early age, I always had this. I've got to kind of make good on this because I was given this gift of this opportunity. And again, I sort of went through my undergrad degree, I did straight classics, wanted to do an MA. I really liked the look of the MA at Warwick. I looked at the the course was the visual and material culture of ancient Rome, so it was a very intensive training in material culture studies, which set me up for what would then become the PhD. As part of that, I did two months at the British School of Rome. And again, you know, lots of nothing was a given. Everything was I had to work alongside studying. I took years, you know, a year out in between. Um, I had a gap year, I did a year out after my degree, before the MA. So there was all of this balancing of lots of different streams so that I could maintain my studies. Then I had the I thought, okay, I've I've got these skills. I'm gonna I'm gonna apply for a PhD. I think one of one of my module leaders at Warwick um sort of floated the idea to me. So I thought, you know what, I'm gonna apply for it. And it was the AHRC block grant scheme. They had one of those opportunities, and I didn't get it. I I had a I had a year where I was just temping and working and sort of, you know, not quite sure what I was gonna do. Um, my mum always said to me as well, so education will give you choices. Um, that's her thing. But she also said to me, you've got to find something that you're passionate about and that you love.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Not very sound advice when it comes to financial planning and you know, um, thinking in that sort of sense. So I don't know, you know, we can all be wishy-washy and say these things, but she's right, you know, we spend so much time working, so yeah, find something you're passionate about. And the PhD was that opportunity for me to explore ancient Cyprus in a way that my undergrad didn't enable me to do because of my degree, and the MA, there wasn't room for that either. So I didn't get the AHRC block granting. So I was I was grant, sorry, so I was I was temping, I was doing um the dullest

Scholarships And Access To Classics

SPEAKER_00 25:08

office jobs that you can imagine. I was like processing pensions and you know, like Just not me, you know. Um, and this is no disrespect to anybody who does this this type of work.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

I'm not saying I mean I'm still flipping, I'm still flipping chicken.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, no, no, trust me, Louise. You know, I have every respect for everybody who, you know, finds their thing and does whatever it is that they're doing. Um, but I I just wasn't sure what I was gonna do. And then I got an email saying, okay, the person who was offered the the AHRC grant, they've turned it down and probably gone elsewhere, type of thing. It's open to you. I was like, yeah, I'll do it. You know, so of course I was gonna take that opportunity. So I I stayed at Warwick throughout the whole of my undergrad um PhD sort of um experience. I wasn't going to look and give tources in the mouth and you know, like not go for it. Of course I was gonna take it. Um so I think linking this to the what came afterwards, yeah, it was really fraught. I was bouncing between um teaching posts, so it's fixed term teaching posts, that really taught me so much. It's very, it can be very sink or swim at times. Um because I was I was commuting a lot, it was really exhausting, there's like little research time. You go from this moment where you've you know been able to really immerse yourself in research, you've produced this really hefty piece of work that's original, it's your own. Um, you've immersed yourself in that whole process, you've you've trained in lots of different skills, you've done that whilst doing the PhD as well. Um you've talked about flipping chicken, you know, like many people doing their PhDs. Yeah, I got the block grant, but I was working alongside it as well because I needed to pay rent and you know, support travel and all other things that I was doing as part of the research project. Um so when I came to that point where I was working in a fixed-term teaching contract, it was very, very challenging. There was a lot of uncertainty. Um, I didn't expect to get an academic job. I thought I'm gonna give it a really good go. I'll do my very best. Um, I applied for everything. I felt prepared for that risk because, as I say, I came from a background or I come from a background um where I was really used to seeing people doing a lot of behind the scenes extra work as part of building their own businesses. And I always knew that for me to make it, I'd have to really push myself in certain ways. So I I took a lot of inspiration just from the the type of behaviours that I saw from my own family and their own background in history. And that was that was that was something that I do really hold close to my heart because of how they've found their their space and their way and their identity living in the UK, whether it's my grandparents or like my aunts and aunts and uncles, and of course my mum as well. So yeah, I was I was really prepared to give it a good go. I didn't get a postdoc. I applied for lots of postdocs, didn't didn't get didn't get any of those, but I was also applying for permanent jobs as well. And by the time I applied for the job at Swansea and was interviewed, I think I'd had five interviews that particular summer, and then the Swansea interview was October, October 13th. I do remember that. I came down to Swansea and it was tipping it down with rain. It was like really I remember getting on the train and you know, the steam outside, you know, I do I do remember it really vividly. But I remember there was a bit of waiting time until I was told I'd I'd got the job at Swansea. And I just remember thinking, I can't do this anymore. This is it. You know, if if if Swansea says no, I'm gonna turn the

Fixed-Term Teaching And Job Uncertainty

SPEAKER_00 29:38

skills that I have developed along the way. Because your PhD, it's not just about sitting in a room and studying, is it? I'm gonna turn those skills to something else. There's something else I can do, whether it's with this passion for ancient history and ancient Cyprus, or whether it's for you know in another sector entirely. So I was I was open-minded in that respect. And when I did get the job offer, it didn't feel real, and I'm still waiting for the university to email me and say it was a mistake. We sent the wrong email out, you know. You know, the imposter syndrome is real, yes, you know, because I saw who I was up against because it's a small world, you know. You see the same people at job interviews, and yeah, it is it is uh someone took a someone the the department in the uni took a chance on me.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

I did I I do think I think nowadays we we just need to obviously the young the younger generations who are coming to universities, they have to get this mindset, and they think this is not just secondary school anymore, this is more educational but more of a working context. Yes, and doing the um the PhD, I mean, I know it's around 2% across the world, they can go through a PhD and they are doing the PhD. Many of them just they can't grasp the this sort of juggling challenges that comes to it to your way. And most of us are not our self-funded. Uh some of them are funding, but they need to have a what they call nowadays a side hustle to to try to juggle everything at the same time, and not many of them, not think they aren't capable, but they just need an extra push from whether their family, their closest friends, to you can do this, but you need to have this emotional resilience to conclude both the degree and keep keep the pace and using those skills to the job that you want to apply or to establish your business or to doing everything that that you can hold that you can do. And I think many of us we need to hear that. If if you don't have that mindset, then it will be har even harder for you to complete a PhD, whether it is 30,000 words on a STEM PhD or an arts and humanities PhD for 100k words. You just have to have that emotional resilience. It's not it's it's even it's even go it goes beyond writing writing and producing research.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yes, and it's there's so much to say about this. I mean, I mentioned I talked a bit about my family and my family background, and I how I how I viewed it was, and I still think this now, I think I am a business and I am the product. Yes, and that has driven how I um plan how I present myself, um, the choices that I make in terms of what I accept and where I draw certain boundaries. Um and I think that is what prepared me for it's you know the the the tough decision that if if this isn't gonna work, um there's other stuff that I can turn my hand to. And to be honest with you, I I find it quite I have so much admiration for the PhD students I see coming through the system now. Obviously, we're talking about the UK system, you know. Yeah, it was it was a hustle when I was doing the PhD in terms of you know, we were teaching, I had, you know, they were organizing events, being, you know, presenting yourself at different conferences and doing all of these types of things, you know, doing community work or outreach work as well. But today I'm seeing PhD students, you know, like yourselves and your peers, you know, you've you've come out the other end of it, but all throughout it, you were doing those things and you were publishing, you were organizing conferences. I didn't do that until after I finished my PhD. You know, publishing was never a pressure or a thought, you know. And again, you know, you started this this podcast, and this is sort of seeing you throughout your PhD as well. So there's this this pressure and this, you know, this it's like this tension that you've got to stand out even more. And I don't think I just don't think I could have cut it and done that, you know. It was it felt it already felt too much when I was doing what I was doing, but it's not doesn't compare to what I see your, you know, your group and peers doing. So yeah, it's the PhD is in an incredible thing to do. I never forget somebody once said to me, I couldn't do your job because I I'd hate to sit in an office all day. And I just thought that's the last thing that I do. I'm speaking to I I speak to so many people. I'm out the office, I'm either up and down the corridors or I'm in a lecture room or a workshop setting or a seminar, you know, whatever word you want to use for the for the teaching setting. You know, there's there's so much more to doing a PhD and and what comes next.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

And that's a that's a good point sharing those sharing those insights outside of the teaching demands. And I even I even go to when I go to work, I most of the most of the the people who work there at Nando's undergrads, and I'm the only PhD over there. So so they ask me, so you're a doctor? Yes, I am, but not here. But they are they keep asking me questions, which are they are curious, and they see they see us. It gives

Resilience Side Hustles And Imposter Syndrome

SPEAKER_04 36:40

the impression that they see PhDs as the leaning example, as their role model, and so I do that that personal experience where I every time I get someone, not all of them, of course, but I do have a few uh undergrads uh in different areas that they ask how is it like to do I'm thinking on this, but I'm so un unsure about it. Could you just give me some insights? What was your experience like? And I say, Well, it's a roller coaster of emotions and and professional hardships that you have to grasp and you need to be prepared yourself, as we were saying previously. I do remember this one when I was having a chat during a peak time, a peak, uh peak uh rush hours, or sorry, rush hours, and this undergrad was a psychologist, is a student in psychology, and said, Oh, I'm interested about doing this, about doing the PhD, but I'm not so sure what does it look like. So who else to ask than myself? And then what would be you being a PhD student? What would you and ask what is your ideal image of a PhD candidate? And that student was a bit baffled because didn't have an ex an expected answer, and so I said, Well, it's not to have a precise answer because uh the PhD goes even beyond of research. You have you have your personal life, you have family life, you have other struggles such as working at Nando's or anywhere else you have to do, uh your issues with rent bills, regardless of living in a shared accommodation or not. You have conferences, you have network attending some which are you have to put in yourself that these are mandatory, you have training to do, you have all these things, and you need to grasp them at the same uh at once while managing the time and leveraging your resources that you have at at your hand, at the palms of your hand, and so these are multiple things that you need to juggle at the same time. So that's I gave that advice that I gave that insight of the ideal image of a PhD candidate, and so then that's that student, I don't think that student no longer works at that anymore, but said to me, Yes, I I want to take a PhD, and I think he's about to process the the application to go through, but I don't know when it's gonna when will it start or whether it has been accepted or not. Um but that I think that that would be I feel myself some sort of sharing some sense of pride to share to them. Um I'm I'm a role model to them, and I need to give them insights to what they best if they are interested in going through a PhD. But I think you you'll see that generally if they are in if they have if they are being honest with themselves.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

And thank you for sharing that, Luz, because I think it's no, it really speaks to an important point about preparing yourself for the PhD if you're if you're in interested. I mean, yes, you know, I'm talking about my experience here, but it was so unique to me, and the world in which I did my university studies is very different to the world in which people are doing it now.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

And you know, when people say to me, they ask for advice, I can talk to them about certain things, but I just say go and speak to someone who's doing a PhD now. Yes, go and speak to as many people as possible, because your insights are very good, it's going to be closer to what they're going to face as opposed to what mine are, because the world the landscape has changed, the world has changed, and yeah, so it's it's really great that you know people are talking to you. I love that, and yeah, from different disciplines as well. Good, you know, speak to as many people as possible, and it's important to be part of that network if you can, where you're talking to each other across you know, um studying levels, it's it's it's really really good, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

And I think I do believe that they'll eventually will do. So maybe one or two students who I talk with who show genuine interest, and I believe that I believe they they will go. If they don't want to go, that's their own decision. But yes, at least you have this feeling that well, I've done my role, now it will be up to you to have your own thought of how you're going to overcome this uh this this degree.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yes. So I mean, I know Louise, the the next of your podcast, and you you know you have lots of different guests on here, but the I guess the one thing I say when when people want to start having that conversation is on ethical grounds, like of course, gladly talk to anybody about doing a PhD and what they want to do, but ethically I can't present a rosy picture about the job market that comes afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Um, you know, and what oh goodness, I mean, one of the pieces of advice that I kept hearing when I was trying to secure a permanent job made me really sad because people kept saying things like, oh, just hang in there, something will happen. And I just kept thinking, but not everybody can hang in there because people have rent to pay or people have caring responsibilities. You know, hanging in there is for people of a very certain profile. Um hanging in there isn't for everybody, and that's not a reflection on them, that's a reflection of you know, economics or their social economic background, that type of thing. So I found that type of advice as well-meaning as it was, it was quite frustrating. And I think we all acknowledge I've sort of mentioned two Willy Wonka moments, golden ticket moments that put me on this path. And you know, in terms of my education, I always have to make a shout out about that. Um, because that speaks to accessibility to studying the ancient world. Um, but yeah, um, there's times when you know luck comes into play, you know, or Kismet, you know. So for me, for me, it was that someone took a chance on me, you know, someone read, you know, my application letter, and yeah, I thought, okay, Cyprus, let's interview this person, you know.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

So yeah, it's a matter of luck after all, even with the consistency.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

But but honestly, this the Swansea, the the Swansea job application, it was a last chance saloon. I'd I had, I'm not gonna beat around the bush here. My mental state was not good at that point. I was like, I just cannot take a you know, doing these endless applications and getting to interview stage and being rejected over and over again. And it it was a it really was a case of if this does not work out, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

Yeah, and it worked out, and it worked out just like insisting upon the the same thing until it works out, maybe so now going now, because yeah, how long have you been a lecturer then?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Oh my goodness, I'm just trying to think. I'm very tired, Louise. It's that time of year, you know, it's like markings nearly done, you know. Yes, um, I'm just trying to think back. Okay, so I started lecturing during my PhD. I think I gave my first lecture in like 2010 or 2011. No, it would have been 2011, something like that, yeah. But I went into a full-time lecturing post straight after the PhD at Warwick. So that was in 2015 to 2060, and then I did a I did a fixed-term post at Bristol University, and then I came to Swansea.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

And then so between your first first lecture ever until now, uh, how how your teaching experience has changed, and if you have in between your experience, did you have did you take your your initiative to to do something that made a significant impact across all the department or all the universities been through, or more specifically in Swansea, where there was something that was impactful for the department, and then how did that um affect yourself as a as a lecturer?

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Yeah, there's oh gosh, there's a few things there. I mean, I remember my first lecture, Louise. Um, I I'd written out the whole script, and I was like, you know, like first year students like reading it. And someone someone came up to me afterwards. I don't know who this person was. They must have been a fellow post grad student from another, you know, sitting in. And he he was really blunt. He said to me, Good lecture, but you apologize too much. He was really like deferential and nervous, and it was like the first time I was sort of teaching.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

So the thing that's changed obviously is confidence.

unknown 47:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

I mean, I'm assuming you did some lecturing or some teaching or something. Did you do part of that as your your PhD studies?

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Yes, uh, but for for for children, for children, fab, okay. Say children, so say secondary school wise, uh key stage seven and eight at a PhD level, of course, but I had if I say teaching teaching, I'd say my first ever teaching was at a at an archaeological Roman archaeological site back in Portugal. And I was a guide tour at the time. I was uh giving tools to primary school students, which they were they were amazing, and they were like mostly attentive to guess the uh how the Roman villa was made there in Portugal, because it was it was a Roman villa from the Augustan Augustan period, yeah. And it was coast it was coastal, and they had they had literally the whole thing. It is still it still needs a huge investment because there's a lot of excavations that didn't steal their own halt.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

So because it's uh The villa is situated between the coastal area and marshlands. So but anyway, backtracking to to the touring, uh I te I I taught uh primary school pupils and I also had uh foreign tourists to to visit. And so I'd say for me that was a my first lecturer, lecture experience, and and then just for the PhD, um well, teaching uh art history of portraits and portraiter for key stage seven seven and eight pupils.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

That's so cool, and you've got to take the commas out of tort because I had experience no, you have to because it's something else when you're in the landscape and you're in the space, and you're having those conversations about the material and the space around you, and some of my um early experiences teaching throughout the PhD as well involved joining there was an organized trip by the University of Bologna. They went to Cyprus, so I joined them and I I gave some lectures and sessions as part of that, and that really stayed with me. And I I that's part of what I'm what I love doing now here at Swansea. So, so yeah, the the the confidence was the thing that changed the most. I love that you had that exposure to kids earlier on because they're crazy at that age as well, they're unpredictable, you know, it's it's a different type of register and engagement to say teaching in a university setting or as part of that context.

Learning To Teach With Confidence

SPEAKER_00 50:05

So that's really cool to hear that. But yeah, in terms of um when I did my fixed teaching contracts, I didn't have much choice in what I was teaching. I was like filling the gaps for people who were on leave or filling the gaps in terms of what was needed in the syllabus. So I was often teaching things that were completely far removed from my research expertise, which was very nerve-wracking. Um, and I had to do a lot of um sort of I had to adapt a lot um to that. So it was really only at Swansea that I really had the opportunity when I got the permanent job to start teaching my own research. So what I've really liked, um, and I love this about our um department, you know, classics, ancient history and Egyptology that sits within history, heritage, and classics. I've been given space and the opportunity to get Cyprus into the syllabus from undergrad level, and I I just love it because there's not many places that do that, and it's I have really learnt from the students as well, and I've I've been conducting a research project on how you use critical walking and engaging with the landscape, um, and how you develop resources to engage students with the landscape. And my undergrad students have been part of that project, you know. They in I interviewed them, they looked at material, and I'm at the stage where I'm writing that up. So that feels really collaborative. Um, and I always get really nice responses from students when they're studying Cyprus as well. So um that feels really nice. I think if I had to think about an initiative or having an impact, um, for three years I was undergraduate program director at um for the for our uh the ancient side of the department. So that that was a big admin job in terms of I had to really learn how to work with colleagues to develop leadership skills. I was making or leading big decisions on the direction in which the curriculum was going. I sort of steered the department through a process called quality review that was like a baptism by fire in the first year of my role. So that was a lot of a lot of paperwork, um, a lot of working with colleagues, you know, doing my best to represent the department to an external panel and talk about what we do, how we work with students, the collaboration there. And then we've had a major overhaul of our curriculum as well. So for me, in terms of having an impact, and this speaks more about my colleagues than me, because of how the dynamics are in across our three subject areas, which is classics, Egyptology, and ancient history. I really got to learn about my colleagues as part of that process of being undergraduate program director. I really got to learn about the particular quirks and the profiles of the different subject areas. Yeah, and it was it it was just it was a tough admin job to have. But it really, it was a really important one in terms of my own personal development. And I feel really proud that we've worked together in a way that we've you know revised the curriculum, and the new first year is going to come in in September. So I'm no longer program director, but you know, we'll over the summer I we'll be working through what you know the the granular details of delivery and that type of thing. So it feels really cool that I I was a prominent role in that whole conversation there.

unknown 54:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

I guess that I guess the uh the whole department if uh develops itself and just a matter of uh unity and no know

Putting Cyprus Into The Curriculum

SPEAKER_04 54:24

each lecturer and how can they how can they work together, how can it be more dynamic to those who uh who are coming every single every academic year.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Yes, yes. And we have to adapt and change. I mean, you know, a lot of our a lot of our focus as well, obviously we want to deliver interesting and inspiring content, but we want to really make sure that we're equipping people with you know as much as we possibly can so that they can go off and do whatever it is they want to do once they have completed their degrees with us, and you know, be prepared for what's out there. Yes, you know, doing a classics degree. People, I mean, the number one questions we get at open days are are around, well, what can I do with a classics degree? And I say classics to describe the whole the three subjects. So, yeah, I mean, I know this is terrible, but I always say you can do anything but operate on someone. Because a humanities degree is so enriching. Yes, you know, it's obviously there are obvious career paths that people follow or pursue, and it can be in archives, it can be teaching, there might be further studies, it might be in the heritage sector. Um, there's there's there's things like that that are really relatable and under, you know, that people understand that. But you know, it it it's it can be a bit harder sometimes to try and explain. Well, you can do this degree, but you can go on and go into to law, or we've had people who go on into nursing, we've had people who go and set up their own businesses. You know, people people are wonderfully equipped if they've done a humanities degree. There's a lot of it's the critical thinking, the curiosity, um, communication in different registers. So all of these things are, you know, priorities that we've been thinking about over the last few years when we've been thinking about how we design what we do in the teaching setting and how do we design assessment. It has to change, you know, society changes, the needs of of people coming through the doors and being part of the student community that they they change constantly. We can't just be fixed, you know. We need to be mindful of that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

I do think that the univers the university concept itself is just as we were saying initially with the PhD, uh has gotten more dynamic and it goes way beyond beyond obtaining knowledge, but also other things that you can do within university. Obviously, going to I don't know, JC's, for example, for a social for a social gathering or playing Caiton when Stephen brings the the the the board and to play around.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:20

And and I feel like oh okay, but maybe maybe establishing a nation history podcast within the department, maybe something in the horizon soon that could could come up, could could come up. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

It must be a bit too much, but I don't know, it just would be oh Louise, as you know, with everything with academic, a lot of it is extra energy and it's all running like anything in the arts sector, I would say a lot of stuff happens because of goodwill, yeah, and extra work that people come in, and there's so many fun, awesome things that I think that we probably all love to do, but there's also tensions between you know boundaries in terms of work-life balance, yeah. There's I've got so many things that I think would be really good, or sort of side projects that are shelved or in folders on my laptop, you know, that type of thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

But I think one of the great things that the department provides opportunity within within within the budget, and given all this whole crisis of budget cuttings in the in the humanities department, there's still something that that it is possible to do. Uh and I've just seen that uh I still I are they still traveling to to Greece at the moment, isn't it? Giselle, I've got to do that.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Students are in Greece. They are in Greece, right? That's not part of the syllabus, but the student society um have put together an itinerary. And do you know what? These are really awesome skills that they've applied to this. They they they put together an itinerary, they worked with Maria based on recommendations, they sorted out a budget, they worked out a plan, they've recruited people to go on the trip. Yeah, they're out there now. It sounds really staffed, but you know, I've been really enjoying looking at the social media stuff that they're producing as well. So they they're thinking about communicating what they're doing, they're doing it in different registers, they're doing it in a fun and engaging way. There's so many skills in there, and it's not just about skills, you know, it's it's just the the pure enjoyment that I'm you know seeing when it comes to the students pulling together and doing these types of initiatives and working with each other across year groups and building that community, you know, it's it's fab. I love it. Yeah, I wish I was there.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

I I I wish I was there too. And uh I mean, back in my undergraduate, we uh I didn't have this opportunity except going to Erasmus. So that that was the opportunity. It came just it that it's coming back, thankfully, it's coming back. And yeah, I do those are the type of things that you I mean, if there isn't, you're just trying to create something, create an opportunity to increase this sense of sense of community and yes, obviously networking opportunities as well, without thinking I have to do networking, I have to do networking. Okay, that thing will come naturally, I guess. Yeah, and so with the travel to to Greece, well well, I never went beyond uh Germany West, which I just stood my stop was in was until Germany and well I'd say Sweden, Sweden. I've been in Sweden before, but uh that was the the pit stop there from going even eastwards, but that that would be the time for for that. I I there is there is time for this and because creating opportunities and they're there in Greece also comes with the the social media. Do you still are you do you run at the same time with other with other lecturers of the department or are you taking most of it? Are you taking most of it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

So social media, okay. So yeah, it's I mean social media has changed so much as well, hasn't it, Louise, in terms of you know, using different platforms. And I mean, if I go back, if I think of the pandemic, um, we had to really switch up what we were doing quite dramatically and really go online. And at the time, there was a core group that kind of led this, and it was Stephen Harrison who was the main leader of this, um, Ian Gogh, Maria Pretzler, myself, and then contributions from the department. And um, we worked on our YouTube page, so we have a profile there. Oh. So that was that was something that was really, you know, intensely worked on throughout the the pandemic. We haven't really done much work with that because it's you know the the landscape has changed so much. Obviously, Twitter, when Twitter was Twitter, was a really great space to have positive exchanges, and we had a lot of like instantaneous fun with Twitter, with lots of different communities engaged in the ancient world, whether it was sort of people in the wider public who were interested, whether it was schools, teachers, museums, that type of thing. But we all know what happened with Twitter and it became a space that didn't work for us. Over the past few years, and this is more streamlined with what the university's doing, um, of course, has been Instagram. So Instagram has been something that we've then turned our attention to, and Maria Pretzler has been managing that for the department, and we have she's really curated and captured the joy of you know the student community and you know the research excellence and the activity of our you know different members of the department. So it's it's become a really fun space for us to do things, and sometimes we have the daftist conversations about what we can put on this platform, sometimes they out, sometimes they just disappear into nothingness. But you know, yes, it's a really great space to capture the community, but it's it's a lot of work, as you know. I mean, doing a podcast, you know, it's a lot of production that goes into this. So, in terms of my involvement, um, I'm not leading it so much anymore. Um but whenever I have a post that's appropriate, I share it with the department, or I'll gather materials and supplement what Maria's doing or what other colleagues are doing. Um and social media, my goodness. I mean, it took me a while to make a decision to have beyond the platform and be on Instagram. I mean, you asked me a question about early experiences of teaching and what's changed. I mean, this is the agendered element of this. It just being very candid, it took me a really long time to figure out what my academic persona and identity and professional identity is. And that's very different when you're a young ECR and you know, a woman and navigating that field. There's things that you can and can't do, or things that will land a certain way, and things that you will get critiqued for in a way that perhaps other colleagues might not. And that was always at the back of my mind

Department Social Media After Twitter

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

with social media as well. Um, because you sort of see and hear the horror stories in terms of responses to um women who have a position where they're an expert in something, or they have a passion and a curiosity, or how they present themselves. It can you can be very vulnerable when you're putting yourself out there. Um, and that's applies actually to so many people and communities. So it took

Academic Identity Boundaries And Visibility

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

me a while to get onto Instagram, but I I I made the decision that whatever I posted would be about work, it would be about my research. I would give some insight into my private life because I want to get across, you know, naturally as possible, my personality, and that feeds into it's quite hard when you're an academic, isn't it, Louise, to sort of disentangle personal and work because you're doing this thing because you're weird and you've geeked out of something that only you really, really care about. Yeah, it's true, isn't it? You've got to kind of untangle that a little bit. So I've got I've got boundaries on social media that I don't cross. Like I won't, I'll mention my son, but I won't mention person, I won't put pictures of him up, you know, because I think it's I need to be honest as well. You know, I I have a young family, and that's part of my identity as well, in terms of balancing what I'm doing with work and where I draw the line with certain things and some of the things I can and can't do, and the decisions I make around that is it's part of that's the whole picture. So, yeah, so I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing on Instagram. I I've there's no fixed formula, you know. I'm trying I'm trying different things. I'm gonna try and speak to camera a little bit more, but I get a bit nervous about doing that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:13

So I do remember that time when I started only with audio, and not long ago I started with camera, even though I do have I do I do have some excellent public speaking skills as an in as an introvert. As an introvert, I just wildly develop, and that comes from my undergrad, which where teacher lecturers encourage us to present any topic of the of each module, of course, about any topic in front of a public, and I think that boosted me to be more comfortable in front of a camera or just in comfort or in front of public, and I think that's that is also brought me to to do what I'm doing, but also as a matter of trial and error, as I mean, even those so-called influencers nowadays, they also they started somewhere. Some of them already had means, some others didn't. But I think it's just a matter of trial and error and see where the where this goes. If it goes well, we can continue. If it's not going so well, we can try and make it uh positive, right? And so I think with as you say, with Twitter or X, um you needed to needed to have a change, and now with Instagram, this has increased the the the followers metrics and people just students interacting a bit more, checking everything, things about curiosities, about ancient history, classics, they've Egyptology. They never they were never expected to meet, being uh the lecturers being more open-minded and being and exposing them, not exposing, but having their online presence more often to introduce. I know not long ago John Rogers, he was sitting right next to me writing the thesis, and now he's covering a Christian's module while he's on research leave and don't know what's gonna happen. I haven't heard of him in a while. It's just like keep saying sending me texts saying, Oh, when when we go for a pint, and he hasn't replied to me ever since. But I do believe that on the flip.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

We need to both write to him because we keep we kept on saying we'd have a coffee and it our timetables just really didn't work out this time. He was very busy this time.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:38

And I do I do but but uh the the bottom of the bottom line here is that now with this booming of social media, people uh more looking for online presence, online attention, I do believe within the boundaries, obviously. Uh I do believe that the next generations of students coming entering university each year, they I think they have this expectation to know a bit more about their own lecturers.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

Yes, yes. I mean, this is it, this is such an important point you've made because I always want what we're doing to be accessible as possible. And I I love that we teach and work in an environment where students are comfortable to speak with us, it's very different to how I did my undergrad, and many of my peers would have gone up uh in terms of their studies. So I really love that aspect. Um, and teaching for me and what we do in the department is collaborative, it's not this one directional, you know, you know, um, sort of dictator style. This is we do things this way. And this is it. It's it's a collaboration, isn't it? And that's the best way to share and develop knowledge and that type of thing. Um, but there you're absolutely right. I mean, a lot of my followers are students, so I there has to be a barrier and a boundary there, you know. That's true. I mean, I quite frankly, I I I I love the fact that a lot of my growing up and development, it's it was a time where social media wasn't a thing. So we did everything and it's undocumented, you know, so it's it's great, you know, but now you know, everything is online and it's a concern, isn't it? What do people do with your image, or you know, how are things utilized, or how are people then accessing and finding out further information from you? So there's all kinds of tensions there to be mindful of, but I think for me, keeping it professional um is is is the best way for me to manage it. And I mean, what I love, you know, Instagram seems to be the place where a lot of people are communicating, and I have personally found Instagram a really wonderful platform to connect with other scholars working on Cyprus and connect with artists and connect with the Cypriot diaspora and institutions that you know spearhead work on on Cyprus. So for me, it's been such a fantastic professional space to meet new people, and so I get so many messages in my you know private inbox on Instagram, and lots of things have come out of that, you know, and it's I love it, you know. That wouldn't have been a thing for me had I not taken the plunge and been on there. But what what I really like is um, you know, a lot of people in the department have their own profile. So obviously, you spoke with Steve, and then he's got his own Instagram profile, and he he does brilliant stuff on there. It's it's not what I'm able to do, but I just I just love seeing how people are creative and creative in different ways and find their niche in terms of sharing information and sharing their curiosity and passion about you know the the the field that they're working in. So I I take a lot of inspiration from what people like that are doing. So anybody listening, if you haven't checked out Stephen's page, check it out. You know, he posts some really awesome stuff on this.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:27

He really does. And I think not not I think a few days ago he was he was in the I think it was Singleton Park, and he was doing a uh a video on the I've seen it, he was yeah, I've seen it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

Fab.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:40

It was so it was so cool talking about giving the context of uh his research on a Km minute Persian. Oh my god, it's so funny. Not in an office, not in an office, it's not in an office, and it's outside the play uh plain sight and nice weather, because currently it's nice weather.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:59

Um Louise, look I'm hanging off a cliff in Paphos, you know. Not in my office, but yeah, it's just it's just fun. We've got to have a bit of fun with this stuff as well. You know, I think it's really important to engage people and break down barriers. No gatekeeping. I always keep saying this. No gatekeeping, no gatekeeping, you know, it's this knowledge is for everyone.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:28

No, there's all there's always knowledge available for anyone, and share this, share that, and in a fun and engaging way. And I'm seeing and I've seen with the department and how long since I've started doing my master's back in 2019, and it's almost seven years full. And it's looking how big it was. It is right today, and with more PhDs also coming in, too. I mean, what else can we get?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:57

Luis, can I ask you a question? Oh, go for it, what what prompted you or what led you to set up this podcast series?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:06

When I was accepted to when I was enrolled in the dual PhD, I said to myself, and this is goes this goes back in 2020. I was still doing my master's, and I wanted to, I was uh experimenting, uh talking about on on a podcast, on a podcasting setting, and it's a doing some little experiments. And I said to myself, if I get into a PhD, I will start this podcast. Yeah, and so it happened. And I started to do structuring the how it's gonna be the episodes. Obviously, it started first with 45 minutes, but then it decreased through to three plus minutes to uh shoot insightful content about the universe of PhD, how is this, how uh how does it take to this path, how it can uh help you to uh increase your networking skills and so on. And so that's that started in 2021, the time I started my PhD, yeah, until now.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:07

And so thank you for letting me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

No, no problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Yeah, I suppose I mean you were you were starting that really intense studying. We were coming out of the pandemic, yes, you know, so I suppose, like I said about the department's YouTube channel at the time, we were we were sort of turning more towards online platforms to connect with people as well, because doing it in real time was was was you know, in the same physical space was was just impossible. So so yeah, that was that's that's really cool that you did that. And um, yeah, I mean you've you've persisted with it, and it's I do appreciate what work goes into a podcast. I've had some uh experience of what goes on behind the scenes, and yeah, yeah, to maintain it is really impressive.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:58

I I I really wanted to start first with PhDs, and then I've expanded the concept, the broadening broad broadened the concept. Yeah, and I was like, uh this time I need to invite lecturers from the department, whether humanities department, but also from STEM. I think that that would be nice. Uh for me at the start, it was a bit at this not at the start of the podcast itself. Obviously, it was it was hard as always. The the first episode was the pilot episode. I was still playing around with the with the uh uh with the software I'm still using, and now just in enter it into video, which is a bit is a bit more simple than ever. And and for guests, I mean I wanted to start with PhDs from Swansea, and I still do it, but now I've been a bit outside of Swansea and outside of the UK respectively. And at first, I it's better to not invite lecturers first. That would be something at a later stage. And I throughout the PhD, I didn't want to say anything about the podcast to Nigel yet until I could I would finish it and say to Nigel and wanted to say to Nigel in the meeting, look, Nigel, you've probably seen on LinkedIn and Instagram what I do, and you probably know that I have a PhD lounge podcast, and I think he knew it throughout the PhD, but he we didn't want to to to share that insight uh at first throughout the four plus this these four years of the PhD, and so I think okay, let's invite Nigel and Stephen to jump on boards, and this would be the first uh the first lecture lectures of the whole department, and now you're you're having it with me, yeah, and I'm just planning to do uh for for the next for the next months, for the next upcoming month.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:54

Bab. I watched that episode and it was honestly it was so great to listen to their separate you know perspectives of of the landscape now and you know how they got into studying for their PhDs and what it looked like for them because they were talking about two very different systems. So I think you know, I really like that you've created this space where we can talk in ways that not isn't you know doesn't necessarily happen in the workplace or out of it because we've got that time critical things that we've got to address. So I I actually learned a lot about my colleagues from listening to your podcast, and I speak to them a lot, and I thought I knew a lot about them anyway. So I really enjoyed listening to that episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:39

Yeah, no, I think I think it was a great episode, and I mean the more the more the merrier. And and I think if we get to know a bit more about the lectures, so whoever's listening to this, then Ersin is sharing insightful content. I wouldn't go that far. No, like insightful content, but within within the boundaries, of course, and of course, uh, but this will be us also a great opportunity for current undergrads, masters, and even PhDs who whoever will whoever student would do something about Roman Cyprus. I don't know. Would you have did you have someone already?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:18

In terms of PhDs, yes, no, not yet. I've I've acted as second supervisor for several students, but in terms of first supervision, the biggest challenge is is the the last uh the the lack of like funding.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:35

Just gonna be really honest, you know. We we we struggle with that element, so I get a lot of inquiries, but yeah. So hopefully, one day, one day, but I have lots of really great conversations with people about projects and ideas, and yeah, so we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

We'll see. And because we were talking about social media, you've been also appearing in uh media broadcasts as well, besides beyond the classroom. Uh, I wanted to ask you so what what what draws you to share your work then with a wider audience, and how talking about uh classics, ancient history change when you speak to the public versus teaching your own students, and yeah, goodness.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

So, in terms of why I want to do it, um, I like doing it, it it pushes me to um develop my skills and you know think about how I can communicate the ancient world using different registers. Every time is different, there's not a fixed formula for doing this stuff well. I really enjoy these more relaxed, sort of podcasty conversations. I I really like doing this type of stuff. In terms of another reason why I do it, I think it's a really important responsibility that I take very seriously. I think I think we should be telling people in the wider community what we're doing in a university. We need to debunk some myths, we need to be accessible and approachable, and we need to, you know, bring something that we are, you know, um holding, you know, this knowledge. We need to take it out there, and again, no gatekeeping, you know. I I and I also think it's an important thing to do because I don't know everything. I don't ever assume that I am a the expert and know everything. Every time I do a workshop, every time I do an object handling session, every time I do an interview or a talk, I learn so much from the audience and from those interactions that I have with people in those downtime conversations or over coffee or whatever form that takes. So I see it as a collaborative thing. Again, I don't see myself as someone locked away in an institution, sitting on all this knowledge and privilege. It's got to go out there and it's got to be for the people. And yeah, I've I've learned an incredible amount. I've been very humbled by some of the interactions that I've had with the wider community, whether that's school children, whether it's just public talks that I'm generally giving, whether it's very specific workshops that I have planned and delivered with other people that focuses on Cyprus and works with the diaspora. So those are my reasons. Live radio is really stressful.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:53

More stressful than podcasting?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Yeah, it was. I mean, I I appeared on I appeared on London Greek radio for like a very short segment. Oh and the host, oh, she was just she is, she's so lovely. Vasula Christadolu, she is just wonderful, and she was such a generous host. And at the I felt so nervous because at the time I obviously, you know, you've you've you've got to be so careful in terms of what you're saying because once it's out, it's out, it can't be edited afterwards. But I I'm I have asthma and I I was recovering from the most horrific, you know, virus, so I was coughing all the time. But she was fab because she she kept she kept putting in these music breaks, so I'd then like cough like mad when the music was happening, and then it'd be like three, two, one, you're back in. And then like having

Public Engagement Radio And TV Soundbites

SPEAKER_00 1:28:48

it was a really high stakes period, like a few minutes live on air. So I had to cough when the like interim music was happening and then talk normally. So and live radio absolutely hats off to anyone who does this live. I mean, yeah, that's just a different ball game. You've got to be sew on it, you know, it's a different, different level of presenting and communicating.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:14

I think there's also reflects on on tele on live television or in even in documentaries uh about ancient history where they they have the knowledge, but they they know already they can't explain everything, and the language that they have to use has to be as if they were do it saying in mediatic things. So using sound bites, sound bites, TV state TV statements, as as as as I think, as I think many people would assume that it is. I do remember I was watching an analysis of the this Netflix documentary about Alexander the Great, and obviously Llewellyn Jones was the household name for these type of documentaries, and the analysis was spot on, and many people were had were doing backlash, and I believe they these were people they were bots or people craving for attention, and indeed they didn't offer any constructive criticism about the content that they were watching. It was just splashing words, words, words, endless words, and saying one of the historians I follow said what he's saying, what Llewellyn Jones is saying, is a TV statement. He knows his audience, he knows what he's doing, and he's been doing this for decades. He knows what to say, mistakes, he will make it, and he's I think he in his mind he says, I know this, but obviously double check me, right? But this is this is my work, this is my job, and it's I need to preserve this this image as an as an ancient historian and sharing things about Alexander. I mean, there was a huge backlash, and I don't know if this was intentional of saying Alexander was gay and all of that, and saying no, it's just mixing the the what is currently happening what with ancient world, which is a completely different thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:21

I mean, Stephen is the best person to ask to talk about this, so yeah, it's really it's really hard because you you the message of what you're getting across, it's gonna land differently with different people, and I think again, you when you put yourself out there, you have to be prepared for lots of positive interactions, but you have to be prepared for negative as well. And I've I've certainly experienced I've had some experiences where um things have been negative, that's been uh sort of some public talks, that type of thing. Um, that was very early on in my in my career. Um, but yeah, it's I mean, you do have to do a lot of work to make sure you're communicating in the right way that makes people feel included, and it's a skill to present information, not just present it, but it's about having a conversation about that information because again, it's not a one-way thing. I don't ever want to go into a space and just lecture people about something, it's you know, it's it's it's it's it's a multi-way conversation. Yes. Um so yes, there's there's lots of different ways in which one can do this. Um, I mean, whenever I get asked to do a talk for a public group, I've got one coming up in November.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:46

I tend to ask what it is they they're interested in rather than just going in and assuming what the topic should be. And then I sort of try and make sure that it's it's it speaks to their particular interests, but also there's room for them to have a conversation as well, rather than me just going in and delivering something one way. So so yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:12

So of all the radio talks you've you've you've done so far, uh did you have any were all of them were your favourites, or if you have to choose one, which one would you choose?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:26

Well, I've done two. So one was the live radio. I did one radio appearance for BBC Science, BB Radio Wales Science, which was uh based on this exhibit that I've got in Swansea Town Centre, Oriol Science. That again was really relaxed um because that was just that was pre-recorded. Um and I had a I had a feel of what to do for that because obviously, as part of our job teaching, we are you know we're communicating constantly, we you know, whether it's in different types of teaching sessions, so pitching the responses um is is part of that skill set. The one thing I loved doing, which was 10 years ago now, and if ever an opportunity came up like this again, I of course I would do my best to be able to do it because my personal circumstances have changed now. But 10 years ago, I found myself falling into this role where I was co-presenting some educational videos for GCSE students, and we I did four of the eight videos. It's called Romans in Focus, and we did all this filming at different locations across the UK, but we also went to Rome and we went to Ostia to do a lot of filming as well, so they're all available online. I can't watch them really, you know, a lot of me like talking and walking through this, pointing at things, but I really loved that. It was just yeah, that exposed me to what production looks like, and again, for something to look really slick and natural, there's a lot of hidden scaffolding, so it taught me a lot about the types of things that the the producers behind the scenes were doing in terms of their planning, their organization, coordinating lots of people, imagine working with you know a camera crew was really good fun. I really enjoyed that project. I have lots of happy memories of that project. So, yeah, that's something I'm really proud of.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:36

Um would you share one? Just one uh bit of recording that you've done that you found most uh most exciting for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:46

It would be that you could you could you could watch them online if you so want to. We did these videos where we were walking around Ostia and yeah, what were the ones I did? I did Roman religion. I would I think I did one on Living Spaces. Um what else did I can't remember now? I did one on childhood for that. They're like five-minute videos, they're really, really short. I can't I need to go back to the website and remind myself. Um so yeah, I really I'm gonna. I'll send you the the link. I think people still use those videos. I'm quite surprised 10 years on.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:28

This is wow, yeah, it's nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:31

I would honestly, I didn't expect I would ever do anything like that. So I I guess the thing I would say, if you get these opportunities, do it. It pushes you to try new things. I did one on the army, that's it. I was in we were in Vinderlander. Um so yeah, it seems all coming back to me now. Yeah, it's it was just And and I made really great friends as part of that process, and I'm still in touch with these people. So yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:01

Okay, nice. And I believe that as as we saying initially at the pot at the at the talk, just getting any opportunity you have either throughout and after the PhD, until you get your foot on the uh you get uh the opportunity, both feet on the on the door, on that door that you open. So I think I think there's there's a lot of things that we still need to know about throughout the PhD and getting prepared after the PhD. And so with all this experience until now and your your current employment, your current experience, uh what advice do you have for any for the listeners or even to this to your current students who uh have recently graduated or are about to graduate, and if they want to do a PhD, what advice would you share and to give to the and give to them?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:04

I guess it's don't ever stop being curious, ask questions, question everything, you know, do follow your passions in that respect. In terms of the sort of like the specific paths that people pursue once they've completed their undergraduate degree studies, the world is your oyster. Um, and I I think have confidence in faith in your abilities. Um and I think in terms of those, I mean I say that because, you know, in terms of the teaching at Swansea and my experience of the people who come through our programs, I s I have every admiration for our students because they are juggling so many things, they're they're pursuing their studies in this time of great uncertainty. Yes, and they work incredibly hard to work for their grades. And I see a bunch of you know, youngsters that are young adults, they come out of their degree and they are incredibly skilled. And it feels really great to be part of a department where they have that opportunity to develop skills and find their passions or their interests, not just within the department, but through other communities that they build outside, um, and the opportunities that they make and that they take as part of the the Swansea community. So, yes, there's that. And graduation is one of my favorite days of the year. I love, I just love it so much. It's just so much fun, and yeah, it's really great to clap and see people walking across that stage in their gowns and then meeting their parents afterwards as well. Often we've spoken to them at open days, but it's great to see them at the end of the process as well. In terms of people pursuing further study, I'd just say don't do the PhD with it in your head that you're going to get a job, it's nothing's guaranteed.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:15

Um, but just be curious, be passionate about it, you know, take every opportunity that you can and make the most of the environment and the community that you're in. I mean, again, I said this earlier on in the talk. One of the things that I have every admiration for is the work that our PhD students and our community, the work that they do. You know, they like I said, they're doing things that I never conceived of doing as a PhD student. And they've made it happen themselves. You know, they've pulled together, they've organized conferences. There's a framework there for some of these things to happen. But like look at yourself, Louise, you've set up this podcast, you know, you're bringing people together, connecting them. These are these are amazing things that you're doing

Advice For Graduates Considering A PhD

SPEAKER_00 1:41:05

alongside your intensive geeking out studies as well. You know, you know, make you know, don't rest on your laurels. Yes, you know, yeah, make the most of every opportunity. And be flexible because you don't know what's gonna come afterwards. Yeah. And I'm not gonna say hang in there because, like I say, I get very frustrated by that type of advice because it assumes wealth and privilege that isn't available to everybody. So it's it's it's a it's a case of talking to people, building your network. And I'm I'm not talking like oil slick, you know, networking. I'm talking about genuine conversations with people in the field that are either going through it at the same time as you or people who have secured work in different sectors. Because I'm not gonna lie, like there's loads of us here, and we want to see people succeed, and we want to help them and support, and we will have the conversations and we will brainstorm and we will mentor, you know, we're here. That's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:15

Yeah, I think that's a I think that's that's a really great message to to those who are tuning in and to also to to the current to the current students that they have finished their exams and now just they are waiting for for their marking to for their final results. So still this this month is still there's still marking to do. And we've still got a bit to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:42

It'll be finished today, I promise. It's great, I love it. There's been just great projects come in. I'm not joking, it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:53

And speaking of projects, you had you have your own monograph already, and yes, what's the name of it?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:01

Revaluing Roman Cypress. I'm laughing because I was it got published in 2021. It wasn't the book I wanted it to be, and I say that because it was I I was heavily pregnant, I submitted the manuscript, I went on maternity leave, the pandemic. I had my son in the depths of the pandemic. Wow, so I was editing the book like late at night with a newborn baby. It was just it's such a crazy time when I think back to it. It wasn't this beautiful, calm, you know, moment where I was sort of sitting with this work that I'd you know captured for years. It was it was very frantic and yeah, I've got strong memories at that time. So, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:55

So, any upcoming projects that you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:59

Too many. I can't say no.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:02

Any maybe any upcoming book then?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:05

Yeah, I've got um I've got a book contract with Liverpool University Press um with a very patient and understanding editor. Um, so my second work is focusing on the cultural value of metal in Ptolemaic and Roman Cyprus. So that's pushing my skill set to different directions, and I'm addressing things that I didn't get to address in the first monograph. So that's that's uh an enjoyable project. And then I mean my my research profile, I guess, is split in two major ways. I've got the ancient history of the island, um, that I focus at the culture and society, and the you know, the um the economic sort of landscape. And then the other work that I've had space to develop whilst I've been working at Swansea has focused on um sort of contemporary responses to collections of Cypriot artifacts in institutions outside the island, so predominantly focusing on the UK context. So, yes, there's there's work on that that's developing, and I've been running workshops and engaging with the um different communities over the past few years in a very stop-starty way. Um, but there's space now for me to develop that a little bit more intensely and push that type of work a little bit further because there's lots of really key conversations happening across the broad about the role of museums, what are museums doing, connecting with the communities, and there's lots of really important conversations to be had about Cyprus, the demography there, yes, and how people view their colonial past and what it means for them today, particularly um if they live in spaces like the UK, like myself. So this is again, you know, it's it's a it's a space where I feel quite vulnerable in many ways because it personally affects me as well. But I have to I take myself out of that because it's all about the people who I connect with and their responses. But that again, it's just you know, such fascinating work. And I don't see it as a a fixed project, I see this as a lifetime commitment, and I take that really seriously. So yeah, it's uh what's the cheesy phrase? It's a marathon, not a sprint. So this this work is just rumbling on.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:40

And I think I think that's that's uh

Monographs New Research And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_04 1:46:44

an excellent way to to wrap up and for the students out there, just uh uh just keep keep doing what you can and reach out to Erson as well uh through their through student hours for the next academic year, or if you are around students. Just send me an email just send an email and then just go pay a visit and talk about any projects that you want to work, maybe an idea just for the department as well. That would be that would be uh great, I guess. I I think so. And there you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:18

Yeah, the more the more we speak with our students, we take it very seriously. Otherwise, what is the point of what we're doing?

SPEAKER_04 1:47:23

Yeah, no. That's true, that's true. Well, Larson, thank you so much for for this amazing, amazing talk. We have to do this again, and I think the best thing would be you and Eve, the other examiner to have a to have to have a to have a chat. Yes, next next week I'm going to Cardiff to to to have a to have a drink with her, and then I'm going to say going to say to her, why don't you con the podcast and then talking about your experience and how is it like to go from Canada to the UK and uh that would be that would be amazing. But hey, uh where to follow uh the Instagram, what's the name of the the the Instagram account of the depart uh from the department and where where to follow you?

SPEAKER_00 1:48:06

Yeah, fab. Thank you, Louis. I really appreciate the time you've given me today just to have a chat to be honest. We need to let you say we do this more. Um yes, we have so yes, the department's Instagram is at su ancient world, and mine is just my name. It's Urs and Hussein, so okay. You'll find me embedded in the department's account somewhere as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:34

I think, well, Ersin, once again, thank you so much for for having the time. And for the students and graduates tuning in to this podcast talk, thank you all for tuning in. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:48

Yes, thank you.