Scaling a Business Isn't Always Adding. Sometimes It's Substracting, Interview with Jennifer Estall - EP # 251

In this episode of the Diamond Effect Podcast, Maggie sits down with Jennifer Estall, Managing Partner at WSC Financial Solutions in Oakville, Ontario. 

Jennifer shares the real story behind building a thriving financial planning firm, including the unglamorous early days, the leadership lessons that only come with time, and the surprising truth about scaling: sometimes the fastest way forward is to cut back, prune, and realign.

From being hospitalized for burnout in her 20s to rebuilding her career with stronger boundaries, Jennifer offers a grounded, honest conversation about growth that doesn’t require hustle-at-all-costs.

What you’ll hear in this episode
- How Jennifer went from hospitality consulting to financial services “by accident” and why it ended up being the right fit
- The early-stage reality: cold calling for years, creating a support system, and doing what worked even when it wasn’t fun
- The catch-22 of hiring: needing support to grow, but needing growth to afford support and how an unexpected alliance solved it
- What changes when you move from solo practice to partnership and leadership (especially as the first female partner)
- The “pruning” strategy: why WSC scaled faster after splitting parts of the business off and how they made those difficult decisions
- Jennifer’s approach to team growth and engagement along with a realistic take on work-life harmony, motherhood, and why “balance” is more about conscious choices than perfect equality


Memorable quote: “I’ve learned to fear comfort more than embrace it.”

Connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferestallslf/

Visit WSC Financial Solutions (Oakville, ON) website: https://web.sunlife.ca/web/wsc-financial-solutions/


And if this conversation sparked something for you, share it with a fellow business owner who’s in a growth season, especially if they’re feeling the pressure to do more, add more, and carry it all. Sometimes the next level starts with one simple question: What needs to be removed so the right thing can grow?

Transcript

Maggie Perotin: Welcome everybody in the next episode of Diamond Effect Podcast, and this episode is a special one because I have a fabulous guest with me, Jennifer esal, who is a managing partner of WSC Financial Solutions, with a great story and a lot of wisdom to share with us. Jennifer, welcome. Thank you for doing it with me.

Jennifer Estall: Thank you for having me. 

Maggie Perotin: So if you could, before we go into questions, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and introduce yourself to everybody. 

Jennifer Estall: Sure. So you've already mentioned I'm a managing partner of WSC, so that is a holistic financial planning firm. In Oakville. I have a business partner.

We have a team of about 12 that work with us, and we handle financial planning for all types of clients in southern Ontario. Outside of work I am a wife, I'm a mom, a daughter friend, an amateur artist. When I get a chance, I'm in a pottery studio or a glass blowing [00:01:00] studio and just trying to find balance between running a business and running my life.

Maggie Perotin: I love it. We'll definitely talk about it, but I wouldn't say you're in a mature part. I've seen your work. It's pretty good. 

Jennifer Estall: It's getting better. 

Maggie Perotin: So let's talk about your journey because I think it's a great journey and a lot of people will be able to learn from it and take nuggets of inspiration or wisdom from it.

So if we can start at the beginning of your business, how. Did you get into the financial planning industry and the beginning of building your own practice? 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. So I came into the industry by accident. It wasn't my first career choice. I went to school and started my career in hospitality. So I was a restaurant consultant.

I used to go into restaurants, rework their budget, figure out where they were losing money, put systems in place to make them more profitable and then move on. And with hospitality it [00:02:00] is. 365 days a year. So it is nonstop. And I am a workaholic and a perfectionist, and that combination did not go well for me.

So I was hospitalized twice for burnout in my twenties. And that made me realize that I needed to set some boundaries that I would be able to keep and enforce on my end. So I knew that getting out of hospitality was gonna be important for me. So that made me reconsider what I wanted to do with my life.

I had no idea what that next step would be. I thought that I might go into day trading on Bay Street because I had a honors commerce degree as a background and the money side of the business always intrigued me. But it was actually when I was leaving, the last restaurant I managed, I was calling around to my suppliers and letting them know who, who was gonna replace me.

And it was actually my advertising. Representative that had a cousin who was in financial services and asked if I wanted to have a conversation with him. And so I just went and went for a coffee and didn't know that meeting would make me start my own business [00:03:00] and go out as a, as an entrepreneur on my own.

That was the first stage of things. I had to get licensed first, obviously, so I took some time and went through my exams, got licensed and then started, opened my own practice as a financial advisor based out of Oakville.

Maggie Perotin: So I love that how, sometimes we need to change industries, knowing ourselves to create life that we love.

So I love that at some point you recognize it, right? Some people recognize it faster than others, but you recognize that and you know how certain things just lead one thing leads to another, and here you are, right? So many years later, still in financial industry. So as you started your own practice, of course.

You, you grew it to where it is now, but tell me a little bit in the beginning, a, how did you find your first clients? How did you grow to the point where you needed help and how that beginning. Type of help look [00:04:00] like for you? 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, so it was definitely a different industry when I started. So it was, 22 years ago. So very different world when I started I remember sitting, I had rented an office. Out of a financial center in downtown Oakville. And I remember sitting at my desk in front of my computer and I called a girlfriend and just said I'm sitting in my office, but I have no idea what I do for a living.

And I, I really didn't even know where to start. And it was one of the other advisors that in the office that just said, you just need to get in front of people. So that's really what I tried to do in any way possible was just have as many conversations. With people as I could. It was harder in the beginning.

I used to go and drive around new development areas and write down the name of street signs, and then come back to my office and look up the phone numbers on Canada four one one. And that became a call list for me. And I literally started cold calling, and trying to have conversations about mortgage insurance.

Is really where I [00:05:00] started. That was horrible. Like I cold calling was not something that, that I loved. I remember on call nights I would have a friend on standby that they knew that they were on call for me that night, their sole job was every time I called, they had to answer the phone, be very uplifting and positive, cheer me on, but hang up within two minutes so that I wouldn't get distracted.

So every. 10 calls that people would yell at me or hang up on me or do things like that. I would call a girlfriend and she would cheer me on and then I would make another 20 calls and kept doing that. I, for probably a couple of years as I was building my practice. I was always very surprised when cold calling worked, like when I would actually call people and they would agree to meet with me just after, after randomly calling them.

I had to keep doing it because it was working, but I also knew I didn't enjoy doing it, so I was trying every other aspect to to get in front of people and build a clientele in the meantime. So whether that was welcome wagons or [00:06:00] trade shows or networking groups I would basically try anything in the first couple of years until I found what was more comfortable and that became just finding referral partners that I could work with and build my business alongside.

Maggie Perotin: So let's talk about cold calling. Yeah, I love that because I don't, I don't think majority of people enjoy it yet. Like it's, because you're putting yourself in front of rejection as human beings, which just don't like to be rejected. It doesn't feel good and so on. But you did it for two years, no matter how hard it was.

And I love how you created a little bit of a system for yourself. Okay, every 20 calls I'll have a friend who just cheers me up. But what else? If you look back, what else motivated you to keep going for two years until you figure it out Other, let's say marketing strategies that worked for you. 

Jennifer Estall: I think it was twofold.

So first. Sadly it was working. So I was getting the meetings, I was getting in front of people. I was [00:07:00] having conversations, so that's what I needed to do. And then also I did feel that sense of satisfaction for the clients that I was meeting, I was helping them, like I know I was making a difference, whether it was getting proper protection in.

For their family or saving them money, or I believed in the product. I believed in the service that I was offering. So the combination of the fact that it was actually helping me to start, build clients and build a business, and it was genuinely helping those clients. I think that was the push that kept going.

But I definitely knew, I wanted to find another way to get that satisfaction from a client standpoint that didn't involve calling. 

Maggie Perotin: And that's the thing in the beginning, we might not have a lot of money and resources, but we have all the time in the world because we don't have a lot of clients to serve, right?

So like how you use that time matters because then once you start signing more and more clients, now you are more resourced to maybe do some other things that are not cold calling and walk away from the tactics that maybe, either require too much of your time or just. You don't like them.

Okay. So [00:08:00] then you are growing and you are at a point where you need some help, but maybe you can't afford like a full-time employee. So how did you solve for that? 

Jennifer Estall: That I would say was pure luck when it came my, when it came my way. So it was actually my business partner now. Built my practice.

I think I was probably four years in. I was growing every year. Everything was working well, but I had hit that point where I, it was that catch 22, like I needed to hire someone to take my business to the next level, but I couldn't afford to hire that person until my business was at that next level.

Maggie Perotin: Yeah. 

Jennifer Estall: I actually got a call outta the blue from my now business partner. And he just called and said, okay, we're, we both grew up in Oakville. We're both. Advisors with the same firm. Were both members of the sa of the same service club, so were both Rotarians and he just said I don't know how we haven't met.

Do you wanna go out for lunch? And so I said, sure. And we went out for lunch. Explained a little bit about where I was in, in my career and the fact that I needed some administrative support. He was a, [00:09:00] already a partner in a very successful financial planning firm. Their biggest concern was looking for succession planning.

One of their partners was looking to retire. So he was always looking for sort of that next possible advisor that might be a potential fit as a partner. And so we agreed to join in an alliance. And my, my major need was the administrative support and mentoring. And their major need was that potential partner down the line.

So I moved my practice into their office. Started renting space from them instead of the financial center that I was in. That rental agreement came with, I think I started with an hour a day of administrative support because they had capacity on their team. They had already hired trained assistants that I could just tap into right away.

So it was just like a plug and play and, I didn't have to go through the hiring and training process and and figure that all out. So it actually worked out. Perfectly for both. And then as I started, my business started growing more. And with that support then I ramped up [00:10:00] from an hour a day to two hours to three hours until eventually I, I had full-time support.

Maggie Perotin: Love it. so then you keep growing and you become a partner, right? Yes. In the firm. So tell me more or tell us more about that, going into partnership and scaling from there, part of your role must have changed being a partner. There were, I'm sure some.

Challenges with scaling. So talk about first maybe how your role changed and some major challenges with scaling and how you overcame them. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah so there definitely were some challenges in the first few years probably most of them. Stemmed from a lack of confidence on my end. So I, I did buy into the partnership, so they had asked me a few times to buy in, but in the meantime, I had gotten married, we had bought a new house, we, everything just didn't fit in my personal life. So finally after, I think we were in the alliance for three years before I actually bought in into the practice. So how it happened, I actually [00:11:00] sold my business. To to the firm and then bought in for, but I bought in as a minority shareholder, so it shifted the dynamics of the firm. Previously there were three male partners equal ownership, and I bought in as the first female partner as a minority shareholder. So there were definitely some dynamics to sort through as to who had decision making authority and who was going to be responsible for different areas of the business. The one benefit that I did bring into the firm is that my ideal client profile was an area that they actually did not want to focus on very much. So a lot of my practice had focused on group benefits for small to medium sized businesses.

They had a significant block of group benefits, but none of them enjoyed that market. So they had outsourced someone to manage that. So when I came in, I took over the management of our group benefit division. Which was an area that I was definitely able to provide some leadership in.

But it was a little bit, I don't wanna say Rocky, but it was interesting in the first few years, Uhhuh with that [00:12:00] many personalities and me definitely being newer in, in the business that my three partners at the time had, I think combined. Close to 80 years experience in the industry.

So they were very well seasoned and I think my confidence in recommending different opportunities for the business or different growth aspects I, I didn't feel as confident in putting those forward. But that definitely changed. We went through a little bit of a corporate restructuring and the firm shifted from an ownership level and that's when I really started to lean into more of that leadership role. 

Maggie Perotin: So if you can tell me more, because I think as women especially, we do struggle with confidence more maybe than men in general, right? Yes, there's always exceptions, but I think as women we question ourselves more.

We question our expertise. We wanna be. Talking about perfectionist, we wanna be a hundred percent prepared, otherwise we don't feel competent. Whereas with male, and that studies show that it's not the case, right? Men feel more [00:13:00] confident even if they're not as prepared as us or not as qualified as us. And what helped you?

Build up the confidence. And how did you deal with, maybe some doubts and challenges as you were buying into the partnership and kind of establishing yourself as a leader in the firm? 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. I think part of it just came with time. And other parts just came with experience, like I knew.

I knew that the ideas that I had, but there was value in them, there was merit to them for the business. I think what probably gave me I would say two areas probably gave me the most confident was first just having a network of phenomenal. Supportive females in my life that were also running financial planning practices or small businesses and really just being able to bounce ideas off of that.

And if I was presenting an idea at a one of our executive meetings I might run it past one of them first just to say is there an angle I'm not thinking of? Or what could be the fallout or and so that was very helpful. But then also the business partner [00:14:00] that I have now, who was one of the three, one of the three partners.

Was very encouraging. So he very much believed in, in the vision that I had for the firm and how I wanted to grow the business, knew and recognized that I was going to be the growth for the business that that he and the other partners were the ones that were going to be retiring and stepping back.

And so really wanted to lean into into strengthening how I had. Perceived the vision for the firm. So that was very helpful to, to have that secondary vote of support, like at the executive level. 

Maggie Perotin: I love that and the firm grew because I've known you, you did for like only five years, and I know that even for the past five years, the firm has grown.

But I'm sure that over 22 years it has grown under your leadership. So can you boast a little bit? Can I ask you to boast. So how the firm grew because I think it's important for people and even for women listening that sometimes when we're not confident doesn't [00:15:00] mean we can't achieve things and our ideas are valid.

And if we're just lean into it and push through the doubts. We can achieve great things. And you have, so if you could talk a little bit about that. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. So we definitely have grown substantially, I would say, more than tenfold in, in the last couple of years even. So we, it, we are considered one of, one of the top, providers for the dealer that we work with. But I think part of that growth has been it's definitely been strategic. It's we have gone through some acquisitions in the past. We've also broken apart our firm. So when we grew in a direction that didn't feel con, consistent or with our values, we we recognize that, okay, maybe we need to trim off a part of the business in order to grow in the area that we wanted to. So uhhuh even though we've grown over tenfold in, in the last few years we've split off the business twice and that has resulted into other very successful businesses that have spun out of [00:16:00] WSC, I likened it at one point to and I'm not a gardener by any means, but to like pruning or replanting a plant. Like we, we grew too big that we were gonna end up just just withering away if we tried to, if we tried to stay all together. But when we could separate that plant and plant it and choose to smaller containers, they could both grow and grow much.

Bigger and faster than if we had tried to force it all together. I think that's been very helpful is to know when you need to scale back, when you need to redirect and then you can, like looking back after both of those both of those transitions, the firm is so much stronger and so much more profitable as a result of.

Trimming off a portion of the business that was no longer serving. 

Maggie Perotin: I love that. And you're right. It's normal for us to as we grow to sometimes take opportunities and then down the line you realize, okay, maybe that's not in alignment anymore with the vision and values that we have and so on.

So if you look back, [00:17:00] what were the signs or what helped you and your partners. Determine like that, okay, we are not going in the right direction. Even though you were growing and maybe from the financial perspective, everything was fine. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: So what were the signs that helped to pause and say, okay, we need to change direction, right?

We need to do something different. 

Jennifer Estall: So I think in both scenarios, it came down to a a partner, a shareholder. With a different vision for the firm. When the core values of leadership don't align, there is a split. In our case, at least couldn't be mended.

It was better to keep the integrity of the firm, to keep the values of the firm, to make sure that we were able to separate out the shareholder that no longer aligned with those values. And I think having a very strong sense of. Who you want to be as a business owner and what you want your firm or your company to stand for is very helpful.

And that took a lot of coaching, a lot of support to, to understand, [00:18:00] okay, what do we want the business to look like? What are our non-negotiables? And when you put everything through the lens of these are non-negotiable, it makes it a lot easier to make those decisions. 

Maggie Perotin: I agree. Like it's really your, I guess this part of the story is the testament of how important right. It is to be aligned, to be very clear on what is it that you stand for, what is it that you're trying to achieve, and how it can help you in making some very important strategic moves as your business grows.

Jennifer Estall: One of our core values is collaboration and better together. Yeah. When we got to a point where we were no longer better together

it was a very easy decision to, to then split off it. No one was right or wrong.

It just meant that if we weren't better together then we should not be together. And we can both move on and and grow our firms in the way that feels most, most comfortable. Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: I love that. Okay, so now let's talk about building a team, because now of course you, you have a team of 12 people.

How do you [00:19:00] find great people and maybe some like hiring lessons that you've accumulated over the years? That, you can share with the audience so they can learn from your mistakes or your lessons. 

Jennifer Estall: I would say that the managing of a team or a people has definitely been the hardest part of building a business. So I, it's a little bit of a disconnect because I am, I'm. Running the business. I'm building the team, but I'm also actively in the business. So working in the business as a financial planner.

So those two skill sets are very different. I do have a fantastic operations director that, and always have for the firm. So that's definitely an area that we invested in. Something that not a lot of financial practices necessarily have because it is a financial commitment, but she is our first point of contact from an HR perspective or from a growth perspective. But I think when we're looking to build the team. I am learning to do this a little bit more for myself, but definitely for our team. So [00:20:00] we're always taking a look at where our pain points are. So where do we have bottlenecks?

What seems to be the holdup? Where are we least creative, least of? Able to solve problems, and that's usually where we need the most support. We as a firm have always had a philosophy of trying to keep our team at 85% capacity, so we don't want to be running everybody at their maximum and risking burnout or, yeah, risking mistakes if we stay around that 85% maximum.

Then we are more creative. We're able to problem solve. We're better, we're able to take on new opportunities if an acquisition came across our plates or so we have a little bit of room to pivot. So I think what we're always doing is making sure that we're in touch with the team, finding out where they are.

Always trying to be more efficient and improve. But if we see that there's an area of the business that the team's operating at 90, 95% or a hundred percent, they just can't clear their desks. They're always pushing into the next week then we know that [00:21:00] it's probably time to hire again.

And that has always helped us grow the business. So we probably hire a little bit earlier but then it usually. Is only a matter of a few months before that hire has turned into the ability to generate more revenue.

Maggie Perotin: It's a great lesson for everybody.

And I truly believe it's a great philosophy because first of all, when you are hiring a little bit ahead of time, you are not desperate hiring. And for me, from my experience, hiring people, desperate hiring like.

99% of the time does not work because you're cutting corners and then you're bringing the wrong people into the business. And then second of all, as you say, when your people are running on fumes or a hundred percent capacity, they can't be creative. They can't take on new things. Like one of the reasons I burned out in my corporate career is because the company took on.

New business without allocating, and [00:22:00] we were running at 9500% capacity. So not only without considering that the people who would have to bring it, bring that business on and make it work, already had full-time jobs. And it wasn't 85% capacity, but on top of it, they didn't even allocate new resources.

And that just crushed us over the period of six months. Having that foresight and having that role, I love that. And I think everybody should learn from it. And it is for the better.

Jennifer Estall: It's an investment. Yeah. Yeah. It is an investment, but I think it, it, over the last decade or more, it is definitely proved to be yeah.

A profitable investment. And happy, happier employees are more productive employees as well. Yeah. It just creates an environment that hopefully is much more productive and enjoyable to work in. 

Maggie Perotin: And also because I know, and then let's talk about that and we'll go into that work-life balance and how you handle it.

But first four for overall for the firm. You guys work four and a half days, right? So like you do, you have half of the Fridays all year [00:23:00] round, you finish at noon. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: Tell me a little bit about that. Was it always like that? Did you guys come up with a decision? How did it work for you? 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, so no, it wasn't always like that.

I think it was. I can't remember now if it was pre COVID or post COVID that we made that, that we made that shift. But we wanted to entertain just a greater balance for the team. We, at the time had a lot of parents on the team as well and just being able to have time for yourself.

When there aren't kids outta school or on the weekends and you're going a, across to activities to be able to go and see a chiropractor or your doctor or to just have an hour to go for a walk on your own or things along those lines. We just wanted to give a little bit more time back to the team.

Because we are financial services we couldn't take a whole day off. Because we have to be available for placing trades or to our clients, but we found our clients were very receptive of that four and a half day work week. And obviously both myself and my partner were available if there are [00:24:00] emergencies, but there are very few Friday afternoon emergencies that we find with clients.

It's been a great a great. Work-life balance shift for the team. It's also been really helpful in hiring. It's a very attractive value proposition, so we definitely didn't adjust salaries at all. Like it was the same salary, just with the reduced reduced hours. And post COVID, we have kept a hybrid hybrid working model as well.

So our team is in office together from Tuesday through Thursday, and then Monday and Friday mornings they work remote. So I think that's also added to that work life balance to be able to be home for deliveries if you're. Getting a new appliance delivered or something along those lines, like knowing that they can schedule some of those personal priorities on Mondays and Fridays.

And then everybody is in office so that we can work on the collaboration and the culture of the team coming together. 

Maggie Perotin: I love that because, like I think we swung a bit. On the other extreme before COVID, because [00:25:00] like after COVID, right now, because before COVID, there were not everybody, but even in my corporate world when I still worked in COVID, before COVID, I had employees who worked.

Hybrid just because of business continuity and work life balance and like having a value proposition for the employees right to, for retention, so on. And it worked really well. And then of course, during COVID, everybody had to go, or most of us had to go inside, like in a home. And now we're swinging to five days, or some businesses swing back to five days a week where that wasn't even the case before COVID.

And I think that's. Once people gotten used to and created certain habits or s you say even delivery or something simple it hurts, right? So I don't see how that benefits a business to completely go the other way and not find this more balanced approach, depending on the needs of the business and whatever.

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, I think the hybrid approach really does work for us. Like we, [00:26:00] we have full trust in our team that when they're home they're working. That's never been a concern for us. I know some companies are want to micromanage and see what employees are doing at I have zero doubt that our team is working.

Working just as they would here when they are at home. But I do find that being able, there is a lot more sharing when it is in office. So that's why I find that the few days a week that we do come in together, like there are. So many more questions that people will ask if they can just call across the hall.

Versus typing an email or doing something along those lines. So I find the shares and that collaborative approach is much more effective in person, but then balancing that off with the efficiency of being able to work from home is I think, a good hybrid. I don't see us ever swaying from that e on either end of the spectrum.

Maggie Perotin: Okay, so now let's talk about balancing motherhood and owning a successful business. We're both moms. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: And you've run your business since before you were mom. I started my business by always [00:27:00] mom. So how do you balance it? Because you have a demanding role. The business has grown, right?

And let's be real, as the business grows and becomes more complex, there's more demand, especially like on, CEO managing partner, however you wanna call it. So how have you been balancing that? 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, so I. First of all, I dislike the word balance 'cause I don't think I feel ever feeling balance.

I, so I think I am very fortunate that I have a partner that's a stay at home father, so that, that has been a huge. Relief to me because I'm not the point parent who is doing drop off or making lunches or pickups and that is all taken care of. But the emotional side of it, is much more difficult, I would say, to try and find that balance. But I was given, and I wish I knew, I wish I could remember who gave me this advice when I first had my daughter or, was that there is no such thing as balance, that you have to be [00:28:00] comfortable in the decision that you make every day and make every day a conscious decision.

So we only have a hundred percent of ourselves that we can give and that can't change. So you could be a hundred percent mom and be killing it and making homemade cupcakes from scratch and being there on school trips and doing whatever. But then that means you have nothing left to give to your business.

So each morning it's a conscious decision, okay? Today I am 75% in as a business owner and 25% as a mom, which might mean I'm there for dinner and bedtime, but that's it. I am putting in a full eight or 10 hour day at the office. But then being a business owner I have the luxury of being able to switch that and saying, okay, no.

Today I'm. I'm dialing it up as a mom, and that means that I'll answer emails if they're on fire and that they need something immediately, but I'm spending the rest of the day with my daughter. It's really making that, that conscious decision and then [00:29:00] allowing yourself. Not to feel guilty for it, that there, there is nothing wrong with wanting to dial it up at business.

And this week I've left the house every day before my daughter was awake. So I'll go in and kiss her before I leave. But yeah, I'm missing breakfast. I have no idea what she's wearing to school today, if her clothes match or what snacks are packed. And I have to be okay with that and obviously have a partner that I know is taking care of it.

So I'm very fortunate that way. 

Maggie Perotin: Yeah, I love that. And I use the word balance maybe because I don't know any other one. I have a client who actually. We just did a podcast interview on her podcast and she calls it integration. I'm like, oh, you know what? That's actually a good word. How to integrate work and personal life in a way that works for you.

So that's why for me, balance doesn't mean oh, equal time and free and so on. It means more, yeah. How do I integrate both personal life and business life in a way that, satisfied with, right? Yeah. And that doesn't mean that [00:30:00] we'll always, as mom, I think we have that guilt like, oh, I'm supposed to be with my kids all the time.

I'm supposed to do crafts and whatever, but so on. And then sometimes that guilt will come in, but I'm the same like you. I'm like, okay. I think about how do I wanna show up as a mom? And crafts and baking is not one of those and I'm just okay with that decision. But there's other areas when I show up, whether it's dance competition, whether it's as coaching my kids through, there, there are challenges in so on in, in their life because it's important for me.

For them to grow into independent kind, but also good human beings with social skills and so on. And I'll put more focus on that than let's say, maybe doing crafts with them and at the same time allocate time for some quality time, whatever that looks like. Because it's also important to me to build the business and help people that way.

I'm definitely not a person [00:31:00] who would. Stay home a hundred percent of the time. Yeah. And that, and for those people who are, that's great, but it's not me. And I just acknowledge that. 

Jennifer Estall: And I think more women need to vocalize that because I would be a horrible stay at home mom. Oh yeah. Like that, that it, it's just not who I am.

And it's not what my daughter needs. And I know that. But it took me a while to feel comfortable with that. And I think it's important that my daughter. Sees me and the impact that I'm making, building a business and with our, with my clients. And that's an important role for her to see as well.

But I always used the example of my, my husband is built to be a stay-at-home dad. Like we live about a five minute walk from the park. And he would take 47 minutes with her to walk from our house to the park because that's how slow she wanted to go. Or if she. Found a bug that she wanted to follow on the way, whereas my personality is very much a type A.

I'd be like, no, we'll play once we're at the park. Let's [00:32:00] go. It takes five minutes to get there, and so she is a better, more well-rounded child or human. Because she has both of us and could see both styles in her life and yeah. Me trying to force myself to be someone that could take 47 minutes to walk to the park like that wouldn't be authentic,

Maggie Perotin: I agree. And that's for me, that's also when I think about my kids, it's, I want them to have. A deep relationship with other family members or with their friends, right? I don't need to be there with them 24 7 as a mom because it's also important for them to learn how to be on their own and take care of their self, how to spend time with their friends and how to, and develop.

Individual relationships, whether it's with their dad and we're immigrants, so we don't have close family here, but whenever that's possible, have a relationship with their grandparents, their cousins, and so on. And I don't have to be part of it because that's their life, not mine in a way. 

Jennifer Estall: Yep. Absolutely. 

Maggie Perotin: All right, so now let's talk about your [00:33:00] philosophy around say self-care, self-development. I know you, you are big on self-development and self-care, and that helps you stay well-rounded or balanced or however you wanna call it. So if you could expand on that. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, so I think. I think when we first had my daughter, it was 

I, I was a little bit terrified 'cause I was never the type, I was never the kid that grew up like desperately wanting to be a mom. That was never there are some kids that played with dolls and did whatever, and that was the purpose in life. And that was not me until later in life. And and then.

There was a definite fear of just hearing, and I don't know if it's the martyr syndrome or whatever, just hearing like how many women lose themselves when they become a mother. And I would say the being, being a mother is the most important title that I have in my life, but it's not my only title.

So I think I probably leaned into the self-care [00:34:00] and prioritization. Actually more when I became a mom, which probably sounds counterintuitive to most people out there because that's usually the time where they lose themselves as opposed to lean into themselves. But it was really important for me that I give so much of myself for my business and I wanted to give everything of myself to be a mom, but I didn't wanna lose myself at the same time.

Yeah. So that's where I really leaned in. I started changing things like I didn't make New Year's resolutions. Instead in December, every year I would plan out the year by choosing one thing per month for myself. And I would put it in the calendar first. So that was happening first.

Whether it was. Dinner with girlfriends or a concert or an art class or something that, that had to go in first. And so I was making sure that there was always something within a four week period that I was doing for myself just to, to learn or to grow or to create or and that has been [00:35:00] very helpful.

And then I also, this, I started doing actually before my daughter even. I take a trip by myself every year, and that might sound a little,

Maggie Perotin: I love that 

Jennifer Estall: over the top to some, but it's never long. It's always to the same. I go to a wellness retreat in Northern Ontario. It is magic to me.

It resets me as a human. And it's usually three to five nights that, that I'll go away. But even my daughter now knows, if I'm starting to get really. Really overwhelmed or whatever she'll ask like when I'm going back up there next. 'cause she knows when I come back, you can be 

Maggie Perotin: a better mom when 

Jennifer Estall: Yes.

I'm always more grounded, calm and so that's been my, ideally I shouldn't get to a point where I have to go and reset myself. But that is a just a luxury that I've afforded to myself to make sure that I am checking in. But like fully with myself. And I think it's important to go alone because I have zero expectations on me when I'm away.

I'm not worried about somebody [00:36:00] else having a good time or anything else. I'm just going solely for restorative time on my own. 

Maggie Perotin: Yeah. And you know what, I love that you had that foresight and I think we don't talk. Enough about it. Or at least like I never had a conversation about it. Like I really didn't know what it is, what you are getting yourself into by being a parent, other than just my own observations, which are usually skewed.

Because you see you see your parents, but that's subjective because you're a child. Yeah. Or others in very small periods of time. And I did. I partially lose myself, which then what it resulted in is me not being the mom that I wanted to be for my kids, because I was losing patience.

I wasn't grounded. And when I realized that, I'm like, that cannot happen because I wanna, I want to be the best mom I can. I wanna show up the best I can, not only for [00:37:00] them, but for my partner for my work and self-care was. What allowed me to do that. Telling, I always say I've never been on the list, so putting myself on the list and then putting myself higher, not in like number hundred, yeah, but actually higher where I get to do the things that allowed me to feel grounded and sw completely changed how I show up and what I'm able to accomplish on both sides.

But you're right, that we're being. Socialize as women that putting ourselves on the list and taking self care somehow is selfish, whereas it's not, it actually allows us to be so much better in whatever we do. 

Jennifer Estall: I have a lot of people on a daily, weekly basis that depend on me. So whether it's my, one of my staff on the team, whether it's my parents friends, my husband, my daughter, if I'm not okay.

I can't be there for any of them so I really do [00:38:00] look at it as it's actually a responsibility to myself to take care of myself, because otherwise I'm letting. 30 people that I love down. So it's, if you can shift your mindset that way as a need to be there for the people in your life, I think it, it allows a little bit less of that guilt or Yeah.

Or that feeling of indulgence. And it's just a fact that you have to show up for yourself first. 

Maggie Perotin: Yeah. It's you know what I think of it as maintenance, right? Yeah. If you had the most expensive car, or even let's say you bought a racing horse, this Arab horse that cost you like millions of dollars, but it also making you millions of dollars and it's think, would you run it to the ground?

Never. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, no. 

Maggie Perotin: You would take care of it and give it everything It needs to function at the highest level. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: So why wouldn't we do it for ourselves? And for us, part of it. Is self-care and being able to ground yourself outside of just nutrition and sleep and [00:39:00] other things. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah. 

Maggie Perotin: So before we finish two things.

First, if you could tell people how they can find you, learn more about your firm. Connect. 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah, so I am our firm again is WSC Financial Solutions, so we're based out of Oakville, Ontario. You can definitely check out our website, which is in the process of being rebranded. So in the next few weeks it will be shiny and new and wonderful.

But also on LinkedIn, I am, I'm just there as myself. So Jennifer ESOL or W-C-W-S-C Financial Solutions. We are there on socials as well, but I would say the LinkedIn is probably the best way to get me.

Maggie Perotin: I will follow you on Instagram. Yes. I see you happy 

Jennifer Estall: very soon. It's being built in the background right now. 

Maggie Perotin: Great. And we'll we will link up in the show notes, all those links. And then to finish, what would be some words of wisdom that you wanna leave the listeners with? [00:40:00] 

Jennifer Estall: Yeah I would probably just say, and this might sound fairly basic but trusting your intuition, I think.

Where I have. Swayed too far off of my path or the vision or the values of our firm is when I doubted myself and didn't trust my, didn't trust my intuition. And I would say surrounding yourself with people that build you up in that and that make. Makes it easier for you to hear your own voice.

I have a phenomenal group of women that are very supportive of me, where. I can ask a question, but as I'm asking it I have the space and the comfort just to be who I am and be authentically myself and even just asking the question in, into a room of such support. I already know the answer by the time I finish asking the question, just because I.

Been given the space to just trust myself and so just knowing that your [00:41:00] instinct is enough and knowing that no matter what the challenge faced in front of you. I can't remember who said this quote, but your track record of getting through hard things is a hundred percent.

Like you're still here. So there is nothing that. Has been presented in front of you that you haven't been able to get through, so facing any obstacle or a challenge with that in mind? I think just what allows you to make some braver choices and yeah, there's ultimately nothing that can't.

Be fixed. So mistakes are an opportunity for growth, and I think if we get too comfortable we stop growing. So I've learned to fear comfort more than embrace it. Any, anytime something feels comfortable, that's an unsettling feeling for me because. That means that I'm stagnant or that I'm not pushing myself to, to be better.

So always trying to improve and lean into the discomfort will, I think, get you farther in the long run. 

Maggie Perotin: I love it. Thank you so much. No problem. For doing this with me. I really appreciate. Thank you for having 

Jennifer Estall: me. 

Maggie Perotin: Thank you [00:42:00] everybody.