Scar Care for C-Section Mamas with Dr. Kiri Kiri Krishingner, PT, DPT, PPCES

As a C-section mama, I know the subtle struggles that can come with having a baby delivered through your abdomen. It can feel like you're broken but kinda mended. Fragile, but strong. And, your movement may never feel the same. Maybe you can relate? 

That's why I partnered with Dr. Kiri Krishinger to bring you some simple, effective, and powerful strategies that you can use to heal your C-section scar whether you're 10 days postpartum or 10 years postpartum from a place of love and respect for your body. 

Get ready to feel FREE to move again in a way you didn't know you could! 

Next Steps: 

Watch Kiri's C-Section Scar Massage Tutorial 

Follow Kiri on Instagram 

I pray this blesses you!

In His Strength, 
Laura Lindahl 

Transcript

C-Section Scar Healing and Recovery

Speaker 1 0:00

Today's podcast, I am joined by Dr Kiri Kishinder, who specializes in helping women return back to lifting after pregnancy. In this podcast episode, you are going to get some specific strategies and steps, as well as some mistakes we make along the way. When it comes to healing and recovering with our C-section scar, postpartum is hard. One second we feel like our bodies are miraculous and the next we feel like we're a complete mess, out of touch with a strong, confident women we used to be all on. The fitness industry pressures us to bounce back as quickly as possible to a body that never looked like it was pregnant to begin with. That's why, whether we're three days postpartum or three years postpartum, we need the refreshing truth of a gospel focused fitness to give us energy for the physical challenges of motherhood, peace with our postpartum bodies and kingdom-centered motivation to train for strength and stamina. So, mama, whether you're sipping on cold coffee or folding five-day-old laundry, I pray by listening every Monday, you become equipped, encouraged and empowered for a strong motherhood. All for God's glory.

Speaker 1 1:04

This is the Strong Afterbirth Podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 2 1:12

Trying to do, whether that's run an ultramarathon five years postpartum without peeing their pants, or just hold their new baby without pain. I've treated a lot of all the in-betweens and it's so fun for me to see them reach their goals. It's one of my greatest joys. Um, I all. I started all of this section. I started in all of this section of physical therapy because I'm a mom of three boys under five and I started gravitating towards this when I felt pretty broken during my first pregnancy and I felt like I really was craving a lot of knowledge that PT school didn't really teach me. So I started digging for that knowledge. And here I am five years later just beating moms and loving life.

Speaker 1 1:54

That's awesome, so cool, when you say like broken during pregnancy and postpartum, what? What were you feeling? Where were you at, what was your like point where you're like man, I, I. This is not normal. I need to get some knowledge and to get some expertise with this.

Speaker 2 2:09

Yeah, I. So I started taking a couple of courses while I was pregnant, but then I was finishing one of them, as I was postpartum and I was on a walk one day and I think I was I think I was eight months postpartum with Leon and I was almost to my garage and I peed my pants completely like full blown. My pants were soaked and this had the moment of oh no, this is not normal. Um, so that's when I started my pelvic floor PT journey and my PT was awesome and I felt so much better afterwards. And then I decided, you know what? I kind of want to do the same thing. I want to help people get through this stuff.

Speaker 1 2:52

So yeah, that's really cool and yeah, I think we just need to normalize that across the board, that like oh crap moment that a lot of moms have when we are postpartum. Like this, body is very different.

Speaker 2 3:04

Yes, yes, it's new. It's so different and we can absolutely be comfortable in it again. But, yeah, I think, realizing that it is a new body Absolutely Well that kind of leads me to.

Speaker 1 3:15

I mean talk about, like, telling it that it is a new body and it's a. I call it a transformation. Right, like, we go through a transformation. That's why we don't want bounce back. Culture is because we are transforming into someone new and that's a beautiful thing. Like you don't tell a butterfly to go back to being a caterpillar. It's like, no, I did the transformation, I've done. I'm not bouncing back to that, um. And so I want to start this conversation from a place of that. C-section scar tissue mobilization and C-section scar tissue healing is so much more than just aesthetics. It's not just like, oh, I want to be able to wear a bikini again, or I just want to be able to like, like my scar, the way it looks. Um, yes, those are factors, especially for a lot of women, and that's okay, but it's so much more than that. And so, in your thoughts or your opinions, why is it so much more than that? How, like, what is the role of C-section scar mobilization in function and form of our body's postpartum? Why is it important outside of?

Speaker 2 4:15

aesthetics. It's not just what we see outside, but it's seven layers of tissue, including subcutaneous fat fascia muscle. They were all cut through to get to that baby. So the scar tissue is super. It's just like a big chaotic network of fibrous tissue and your body worked so hard to create it. But the goal is to latch onto everything around that open wound and heal the area. So we have to remember that the muscle and sensory nerve network that was once there was also cut through and sometimes it needs a little help to move well again and to feel well again.

Speaker 2 4:55

The tissue around that scar remains really stiff and because of that it can cause a lot of pain for new moms when they try to stretch or twist through that area. I would say most patients come to me because they maybe had their baby sitting on their stomach and they were like, ah, this is really painful and I'm like, five months out, this should not be painful. Or they were wearing their tight pants again that were maybe a little tighter than usual, because you know we're in a new body and some some of us wrongfully try to squeeze in those old pants and it's time to get new pants.

Speaker 2 5:25

I have a whole postpartum wardrobe that I have, but the compression over that area is just really painful because a lot of things were cut through and it's not just sensitive but it's hypersensitive. Um, those, those nerves that are regenerating. They grow back at about one millimeter per day and that's after about a four week wake up period post-surgery. So sometimes these nerves need a little extra help to wake up.

Speaker 2 5:57

Patients will say often that they have no feeling around the scar when they first come in, about four weeks out. Um, and that's totally normal, um, because this process just takes a really long time. Um, and those nerves will eventually regenerate, but they just they, they take time and they require a little love to get there. Um, but for us to be able to fully use our abs again and go up steps using our hip flexors again or have pain-free sex again, all of that requires this area to move well and have appropriate nervous input, which is so important, and we're going to talk a little bit about that later. But physical therapy and rehab can come in handy during this time because, as the PT, my goal is to make sure that that scar tissue moves with you during everything you want to do, as well as provide sensory input in similar ways to the tissues around the scar. So that's why this area there's so much going on. It's so much more than just what that scar looks like.

Speaker 1 6:56

Yeah, yeah, and the things that you talked about for our function, like going upstairs, like holding your baby on your tummy, even like holding your baby, or like having sex those are all things that are very big aspects of the human experience, right, like when I think about some of the most memorable points of my life, like, yeah, holding Boaz, like playing with him, connecting with my husband, like those are all really big things that affect our experience, and so I love that you're speaking into that and I love that you're in in that way just showing women, hey, like this is so much deeper and has such a bigger ripple effect than just what you see in a picture or what you see in the mirror.

Speaker 1 7:34

So that's, that's so good. So I'm curious, carrie, what are your thoughts on the most overlooked step in C-section healing when it comes to? You know you're, you're sent home just having a major abdominal surgery and they're like bye, take care of the baby, what the heck just happened to me? Um, and I just feel like you're not really given a lot from the hospital and so we're kind of left to our own devices, in many ways, of just trying to figure out what life looks like now as a mom, or juggling two kids instead of one, or three kids instead of two, and so, when it comes to that healing process, like, what are your thoughts? What are some things that get overlooked? What are we missing when it comes to our C-section recovery?

Speaker 2 8:23

I think there's a couple avenues of ways. I want to answer that. First, I think we need to be aware that these layers, these tissues, they take like anywhere between six to eight weeks to even close. Sometimes Some people have an open wound for quite some time. Different things go into that healing process, like if we're eating right and making sure that we aren't in that pre-diabetic point where we have too much sugar in our body, that's going to make the healing process take longer.

Speaker 2 8:54

I don't think this is probably a problem for people that listen to this podcast, but smoking again if even if they stopped for pregnancy, if we return to smoking, like that can also slow down that healing process of getting that wound fully closed. I think people think that it also is this thing that could be easily broken at any point. I think that is also something that happens. But once that tissue is healed, we need this to move, we need this thing to move with us, we need this to move, we need this thing to move with us. Um, so treating it as this point where cannot be touched, cannot be moved, I think is something that people go in that direction and that is how we get the dysfunction.

Speaker 1 9:35

But oh my gosh, I remember Matt making me laugh so hard and I said, don't make me laugh, I think I'm going to burst my stitches. And this was like maybe two weeks and I was like, please stop making me laugh.

Speaker 2 9:46

You can't laugh.

Speaker 1 9:47

It just feels so guarded. Yeah I, you're spot on.

Speaker 2 9:52

I think that's something we need to remember, but also one of the biggest things that I think we need to work on as a society that has a lot of women getting C-sections is. I've had way more than one. I would say this is probably the majority of patients I get post C-section, where they refuse to even look at their scar because they're almost ashamed of having it. If that is you listening, you are not alone. Like this is very common. They don't want to touch it, they feel yucky when they look at it, and what a bummer that is.

Speaker 2 10:27

As a clinician who works in public health, I find that when a patient is not accepting of a certain part of their body or uncomfortable with it, especially when it's in a private region like the vaginal area or a C-section scar the first step to healing is always going to be accepting that part of our body as a part that God made for us and because with without loving every part of us, our pain response will always be heightened in that area that we have negative feelings towards.

Speaker 2 10:57

So I feel like part of my job as their PT is to teach them that this is part of their body and it's actually amazing. Thank goodness we have it because modern medicine's knowledge of how did it get this baby out in a time when the other way wasn't working like that's why we have this healthy baby in front of us. So the scar is like your tattoo of an experience that was maybe not planned, but it was not how you planned, but maybe it was the way that God intended it nonetheless. So I think, having said, the most important step is to begin touching this new area, around it, over it, move it around all the things. Growing comfortable with this area is going to be the ultimate way to heal, and this applies to perineal scar tissue as well. If someone listening had a vaginal delivery.

Speaker 1 11:42

Yeah, I like that. And you talked about some really practical steps there too, of that acceptance, like look at it, touch it, you know, and there was, um, someone gave me the advice of, like praying over my scar, which felt like a little odd at first, cause I was just holding onto my C-section scar and just praying over it. Um, that was also really powerful, just like seeing an aspect of my body that I could see, it just feeling broken or a way that I had to give up control and uh, at least for me it was a pretty traumatic delivery and I know that, as for a lot of women, and so giving that to the Lord and just praying over it and touching it was really powerful of a way of just getting it, like you had mentioned, to the science behind it right, like that desensitizes the nerves and you can start the healing process and allow them to heal in a much better way.

Speaker 2 12:32

And I know that it doesn't seem like it's the plan sometimes, but you probably wouldn't be having this podcast if that hadn't been your experience. So hopefully this can cause a chain reaction of someone else that maybe feels a little better about their scar. So not our plan, but sometimes God's plan is a little different.

Speaker 1 12:49

Yeah, absolutely that's good. That's good and any other steps that come to mind for you that you feel like people are totally missing this.

Speaker 2 12:59

I know you mentioned the smoking, making sure you're mindful of sugar intake, touching and accepting mindful of sugar intake, touching and accepting Um one of the things that, as far as if this is immediately postpartum um bracing bracing that area for just increased pressure and helping you feel safer in that area um is sometimes missed. So yeah, like you said, they don't really give you anything to go off of after a C-section when they send you home. But if you had been a patient for cardiothoracic surgery or any other abdominal area surgery, they would have told you this. So one thing that's super helpful is using a pillow around your stomach in those first couple of weeks Every time you cough, every time you have a bowel movement, just kind of using that as a brace to feel like you have the abdominal support that maybe you don't have yet. That's so helpful for just feeling safe in your body in those first couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 13:57

Another thing is abdominal binders. This is a very controversial thing to talk about in the PT world but my personal opinion as a pelvic floor PT specifically is they will give you the corset binder immediately after. Usually where it's this, the Velcro one, I my opinion is I want people to ditch that when they leave the hospital usually and then move on to more of a soft a soft like um compressive underwear or something that's still giving you a little wrap but not really compressing you because of the impact that can have on your pelvic floor and it can really just press everything down on a pelvic floor that's already really really tired after carrying a baby for so long. Um, so when people come in like two months postpartum and they're still wearing their abdominal binders, I am like, oh, okay, time to move on from that, cause we don't, we don't need that anymore. That's, I want your abs to start being that for you. And if we wear that corset for too long, the abs kind of were like, oh, I can chill, I'm good.

Speaker 1 15:01

I don't need to do this. So that's just a couple of things that I noticed that could be helpful. If you knew beforehand, that's awesome. Yeah, that's fantastic. You definitely can take those as good reminders, good practical things. So the topic of today is specifically C-section scar tissue mobilization. So what are some things you had mentioned? Like, touching your scar is important, and someone I would imagine like me, if I'm listening to a podcast where someone says you need to touch my scar, I will reach down and just put my fingers on my scar and say what do I do?

Speaker 2 15:33

So practically what. What does that?

Speaker 1 15:35

look like for us Carrie to practice that scar tissue mobilization.

Speaker 2 15:40

Yeah, so I'm. I'm just going to take you through what I would want you to do for at-home treatment. As far as that goes, you can absolutely make a big difference on your C-section scar without anything more than what you have at home, and that's going to include that light touch, but then we'll expand on that. There are a lot of things people will try to sell you to make this process better, to try to like decrease the keloid scarring and all the things. Silicone patches are one of them. They're great. They're not going to improve any of these things we're going to talk about today, though. So that's just for aesthetics, Like you mentioned in the beginning. Um, that's not going to improve sensory input or anything like that. So, as far as research goes, they they have some very weak research, but it's. This is going to be a little more effective.

Speaker 1 16:24

Oh, this is interesting, so I'm just curious just to pull on that thread a little bit. So if somebody was like, oh, I need to get this, that could almost make them think that they don't need to do the functional work right If they're just working on the more like external layers. Oh, and they could miss out on so much more of the function if they're just focusing on that like aesthetic oh and they could miss out on so much more of the function, if they're just focusing on that like aesthetic Yep.

Speaker 2 17:03

Unfortunately, we are a society of quick fixes so we don't want to do the hard work. Actually, yes, take the pill. The exercise is not step one of what I'm going to talk about today. You want to make sure that that scar is completely closed, so we want full closure for both silicone patches and step two. But even before this scar is closed, you can start this first step. This will probably be around like three weeks postpartum. We are going to start with desensitizing the nerves around the C-section scar. So obviously, if you still have any stitches left or if there's any open wounds, you don't want to do this right over the scar yet. But then, once the scar is closed, we want to start touching the scar, like we talked about. But desensitization is just you taking those super tiny baby nerves that are so hypersensitive and teaching them what normal input looks like. So taking your hands and making really tiny small circles around the scar, on all sides of the scar. People will usually notice that the side that was closed during the surgery so usually is whatever dominant hand the surgeon had is usually the hand that they'll close with. Um, most people it's their left side. Um, not always, but I just get a lot of people with left side tenderness for some reason. Um, but it's going to be a little more sensitive on one side, depending on how many nerves were cut through, on what nerves are trying to grow back. So you want to take those nerves, teach them what normal input is and slowly do tiny circles around that whole area. Then, as the nerves start feeling a little more normal, as you start making that light touch and it feels the same as it does above and below the area, then those nerves are getting to be to the point where the sensory input they're giving your brain is a normal amount. Then we want to start progressing to deep circles. So this is going to be more for the mobility of the scar and also our deep sensory input as well, which is something that's affected with more. Just like bigger pressures, like having your baby sit on your scar. It's probably not the superficial, it's more the deep pressure that's hurting. So once we can have pain-free little bits of pressure around the scar, then we're going to really start working this. Now this is definitely after the C-section has completely closed, but really deep circles all the way around.

Speaker 2 19:36

Once the scar looks great, you can start doing this over the scar as well. This is just we want the scar to move the same as the skin around it. So once you can get to that point, then you can progress to, um, cross friction mobilization, which just means that one hand is above the scar, one hand is below the scar and then you're going to switch. So you're going to kind of drag your hands across and switch so that you're pulling the scar in the opposite direction with each hand. This is just getting it to again move with you with whatever you're trying to do.

Speaker 2 20:12

And then, finally, I usually bring people through stretching with like leg stretching with the scar mobilization at the same time. So what that looks like is you're in a hip flexor stretch, like, let's say, you're doing like a runner's lunge stretch, and on that same side that the back leg is, you're taking that scar and you're pulling away from that stretch. So you're increasing the stretch even more. You're doing deep pressure, pulling it away. You don't want to feel that scar when you're doing a runner's lunge stretch. So you want your body to move as much as it can with you in all directions, whether it's twisting, lifting your leg, all the things we want you to eventually not notice this area of your body. So that would be the goal of your at-home treatment. That's what I would kind of walk you through in physical therapy as well, but I know that's kind of hard to picture over a podcast, but that's what I would do.

Speaker 1 21:05

Now, how would someone, first of all, a good question maybe think of is what's a normal timeline for those of us who are like all right, I'm going to do this and it's going to be better in two days, so what's a expected timeline for those of us who tend to set those unrealistic expectations? What? How long can someone expect this to take?

C-Section Scar Healing and Treatment

Speaker 2 21:25

It would really depend on how much nerve damage you have Cause. Like sometimes people come postpartum with they can feel everything, like I palpate around the scar. They can feel all the way around. Some parts are a little more sensitive but they can feel, and then other times nothing like dead, zero, no sensation. So you can imagine that that's going to take a little longer than the person that comes with some sensation. And if you have no sensation around your C-section scar, there's nothing wrong with you, it's okay these. Then it's going to start regenerating those nerves very slowly, one millimeter at a time. It's very slow, but that's going to change the duration of how long it takes to heal. Um, usually, let's say, you have a little bit of sensation. Um, when I have people in sessions I would say like um, in a month you'll notice some differences with really consistent work, um. But this is not a short-term thing. This is not going to get fixed in a day. We did not make a baby in a day. Let's just let's call it a long-term project.

Speaker 1 22:42

That's good. I think that's really helpful, because the number one thing I think that stops people and myself included like is, if I'm not seeing progress and like, well, why do I want to keep doing this? But sometimes we can stop just before that turning point. And then we never see all the results from those like little investments that we made along the way. So that's helpful perspective to give that this is likely going to take longer than you think it's going to take.

Speaker 2 23:09

Absolutely, and we have to remember that you also just had a baby at this point. So we are very busy people. We don't have a lot of time to spend on ourselves. So you have to give yourself a little bit of grace, because you're going to put in the work that you have time for and that is the work you were meant to give. Like it just, but five minutes a day makes a huge difference. On this stuff, I usually cue people every time you take a shower, which, like, let's be real, not all of us are getting a shower every day because of how busy your newborn life is. But when you take a shower, that is a time when, in the shower, you are dedicating some time to moving the scar around. As a rule, if you, if you hit the shower, you're moving the scar.

Speaker 1 23:48

That's good, yeah, and tying it, we call it like habit stacking. When I'm working with my clients, we call it habit stacking, like what's something you're already doing and we can make this much more simple by adding it on top of that or piling it on top to something you're already doing. So that's, that's fantastic. Are you recommending, like using some type of I know other people have recommended using like a type of oil or type of like a lubricant to aid in the tissue massage or are you one of the camps that like probably better to have that like rough tension from your hands? Where, where do you land on that?

Speaker 2 24:22

Um, I like the tension from your hands. Just cause it creates more of a pulling effect. Um, using oils of any, any kind is is good for maybe the deep mobilization, but once you get into the cross friction phase I would prefer it to be kind of on the drier side because at that point your sensory nerves should be feeling a little bit less sensitive. The oils really help if you're feeling very a lot of burning with friction. If you do do use oils, I would say avoid scented. Make sure they are unscented lotions. Don't use that Victoria's Secret lotion you have in the back of your drawer that you've had since high school. Don't use that. I would use more like coconut oil. I would actually stay away from vitamin E oils. I think coconut oil would be probably the one I would recommend the most. Or just non-scented lotion. I have some Cetaphil lotion on my desk right now that I use sometimes for people, just the most basic the better.

Speaker 1 25:20

Yeah, and what's the logic behind the vitamin E oil?

Speaker 2 25:24

I've heard that that could increase the. Don't quote me on this, but I think I read that it could increase the keloid scarring. But that's just something I've. I've heard. I I would, just as long as you're staying away from scented, I think that's the biggest thing. Is that could has chemicals in it that could maybe lead to infection. It just you want as little infection possibilities as possible. Is is the goal.

Speaker 2 25:46

Um, but sometimes when I do use lotion, I'm using cupping techniques. So, um, this is actually something that if you've had a scar for a long time like if, even if you're multiple months postpartum and you're just now coming in and like, hey, this is still bothering me, I will most definitely recommend cupping um, usually in about four to five sessions of cupping and using that decompression versus the compression that you'd be doing with the pressure on your own. Um, it just it. It works really well. I find this to be really effective, even though cupping.

Speaker 2 26:27

I was actually just diving into the research before our podcast just to make sure I wasn't saying anything. Just ridiculous, but it's. There is evidence that it increases blood flow which could initiate a better healing response and increase nerve regeneration. It's not great evidence. It's there. It's just not like great studies. I would say that this is more from a clinical experience perspective, that I'm saying this because I've seen it work many, many times, and you could ask a lot of other pelvic floor PTs and they would probably tell you the same thing. So cupping if it's a long-term scar is super effective, and that is when you'd probably want to have the lotions.

Speaker 1 27:09

That's helpful. Yeah, I help them glide and slide there.

Speaker 2 27:13

That's helpful.

Speaker 1 27:14

Well, that kind of leads me then to my next question. Let's say somebody is I'd say I'm training on a client right now who has had three C-sections and she is now 18 months postpartum. So let's say a woman is in that place and what are some things that you're recommending for her If she's feeling hopeless about her C-section scars or just feeling like that's just the way that life is, maybe a little, you know, in disbelief that it could be better? What are some some words of hope that you would give for that woman?

Speaker 2 27:46

Yeah, um, I always say once postpartum, I was postpartum, like you can be 18 months postpartum or two months postpartum, and it's still we. We treat you pretty much the same way. Um, you are still, you are, you are much strong. You have a bigger base of support by that point. So there's actually a lot more we can do with you, um, to recover and to get this C-section scar moving better. Um, there's a lot more, um abdominal strengthening that we could focus on.

Speaker 2 28:15

It's it's never too late to address this stuff. Um, and, like I said, those nerves are very resilient and if you're giving them the stimulation they could potentially change the trajectory of their growth in that way. So, but it never hurts, no matter how far out you are, to get this area moving and to apply that deep pressure and to just kind of feel where are some spots that are a little tighter, where am I noticing that I maybe have less sensation? Kind of just do a little self-assessment and see what is different side to side. I would say that describes my entire profession is what is different side to side? Where is the discrepancy? That's how I find how to fix things. That's, that's the puzzle right there. So you can do that to yourself, no matter how far out you are.

Speaker 1 29:05

That's awesome. Yeah, what about for the woman who has said that she's tried everything? Have you tried?

Speaker 2 29:14

everything. I think that when you've come to a dead end and you feel like, wow, I am not recovering like I want to, that is when you seek help and that is when you ask a professional to give you an assessment of like, hey, I need someone else's eyes on me and, like I said, I went to pelvic floor PT. I could not assess my own body. I you have like a blind spot when you're looking at yourself. Sometimes, no matter how much you know, you need someone else to tell you, hey, this is something that you could work on. And, man, it's so nice to be told what to do. When you're the one mothering everyone all day and telling everyone what to do all day. I don't like programming my own exercises, I like someone else telling me what to do, because it's just like decision fatigue. So, have you just tried Everything would be my question.

Speaker 1 30:08

Yeah, which is beautiful, cause that's really the thing is. Sometimes you just you just need a coach in your corner. You just need a practitioner in your corner who might know just a little bit more than you or have a little bit more experience, to be able to help and guide you and to ask those questions. I think the I've said many times and I will say it again the quality of your life is determined by the quality of questions that you ask, and if you're able to get with somebody who knows how to ask the right questions to help lead you to hey, here's your solution, and you came up with it because you just answered these questions and we discovered it together. I think that that's that's beautiful. So well, carrie, if one of my listeners wants to get in contact with you, what are some ways they can do that? How is that? What is the best way to reach you if they wanted to schedule a consultation and get some help with their scar tissue mobilization?

Speaker 2 30:59

Yeah, um, I own a small solo practice called nap time PT and you can find me on nap time ptcom. I have a little have a little button at the very front page that you can schedule a free consult. Also, I have an Instagram where I post silly reels every once in a while, so you're welcome to message me on there. It's just at Naptime PT and I do actually have a video on my website of everything we talked about today how to mobilize your scar. It's very pregnant Kiri three years ago trying to show you how to mobilize a C-section scar, so kind of silly with the big belly. But it's on there under my blog post If you want to find it. I'm sure we can add that to the show notes today Laura.

Speaker 1 31:43

Yeah, we will drop that in the show notes.

Speaker 2 31:45

Cool. Well, I am always, always, always open to hearing people's questions, so feel free to reach out on Instagram or on my website and I, like I said, this is my passion. I love helping moms achieve their dreams, whether that's not peeing or doing that lift that you just couldn't quite get, that's I just just. I love every bit of it. I just really appreciate you having me, laura. I I always just love hearing your input too, and I love that you bring God into becoming a stronger mom and woman, and that's just so beautiful.

Speaker 1 32:18

Couldn't do it without him, that's for sure. Nope. Well, keri, thank you so much for being on the show. Until next time, guys, do me a favor. If you have not left a review yet, what are you waiting for? Leave a review and then, right after you leave a review, head over to Instagram. Give Carrie a follow up, because she dropped some great information. Um, not only is she just a gem of a mom and a person, but she's also really wise, and so follow along with her. Go to the blog, check out that video and until next time, guys, stay strong. All the love, coach.