How To Build Demand Through Community And Conversation

Most business owners don’t need another marketing “hack.” They need the uncomfortable truth about why visibility does not automatically turn into sales and what to do when the phone is not ringing.

Shelby McFarlane talks with Arkansas insurance agent Nick Tuberville about the gap between marketing and selling, especially in service businesses where you are not shipping a product, you are selling a promise. We get practical about what actually drives growth: showing up locally, starting conversations, and building relationships strong enough that people choose you even when you are not the cheapest. Nick explains why “direct marketing” still matters, how his team hustles for real interactions, and why speed is not always your friend when a better conversation can open the door to life insurance and deeper coverage reviews.

Then we go into the modern stuff without the hype: Google Business Profile basics, the never ending game of SEO, and how AI is changing search and sales training. If you are experimenting with tools like ChatGPT, we talk about what is useful right now and what is still too early to trust. We also share the messy reality of onboarding salespeople, what accountability looks like when performance dips, and why tracking activity can be the fastest way to rebuild momentum.

If you want a clearer marketing strategy, a stronger sales process, and realistic expectations about ROI, this one will hit. Subscribe, share with a business owner who’s stuck, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Purchase "Market Like A Boss" at shelbysmarketingbook.com

Transcript

Welcome And Introductions

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast. I'm Shelby McFarlane, the marketing boss, and today I am joined by the insurance boss, Nick Tupperville. He is an agent here in Arkansas, and we are not allowed to be to name who he works with, but it may be something that you could grow cows on. You grow cows, raise cows, grow gorgeous. Anyways, Nick, hey.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Starting off well.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Welcome back to our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Been a while.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

It has been a while, a couple of years. We did that one over Zoom though, and this one's in person.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Ooh, moving up.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Moving on up. You're way more important now. So tell us about your insurance background and how long you've been in it and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, so I got started about uh this is going on my I guess I'm about to celebrate seven years. Um so I just uh been like drinking from a fire hose for a while, trying to figure it out. But uh always something new, always something to learn.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

We just got done drinking from a fire hose at the national conference for this farm that we're not allowed to talk about. Um, but so we love to talk about marketing and sales because obviously that's our life. We both market, we both sell every single day. We like to talk shit a lot about people because people just kind of suck sometimes, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I didn't know we could say those words.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh, yeah, we can say whatever. I'm the boss. Member? Okay. Yeah. Anyways, if they're offended, they can turn to the next one. So we love to talk about, again, sales and marketing. And we had this really great conversation while we were away to this conference, and I was like, that needs to be a podcast episode. I want to dive into how he sells because, as we both know, my clients think that marketing is selling. Like they think that the social media posts that we do for them is the only way that they can grow their business or sell or anything else. So I want to dive into what is your sales process, maybe some of your training that you do with your girls in the office, things like that. Fill us in on all the nuggets.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Well, I want to start first when you talked about the marketing in the future, right? So um when I got into this, uh I didn't really do how to do a whole lot of marketing myself. Um the brands I worked for before just marked, they just did it themselves. So one thing I learned slowly is there's vendors out there that they're always pitching you on what what they can do for you and this and that. And I spent a lot of money on SEO and this and

Marketing Needs Sales To Work

SPEAKER_01 2:35

that, and I did get some progress in some of the things I did, but um I it didn't take long to learn that. Whatever they tell you, you have to kind of be able to to filter through it. So um it takes a combination. So I can't just hire you and say, do my marketing and just sit and wait for the phone to ring. It doesn't work that way. Yes, you do get some phone rings from it, but that's not gonna drive your business. You know, what drives your business is a combination of it. And so I think that I have sometimes I have a different perspective because I've heard lots of pitches, and you have yours, and you have your think space that you play in, and there's all these other people, and we get all these things bouncing off of us. On top of other agents across the country who hear some of the same things or s different things from different vendors, and so it makes you start looking through and figuring out, okay, what what actually is what. Um but what it really boils down to is you know, if you go buy a billboard, you don't buy a billboard and sit at your desk and wait for the phone to ring.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

If you buy an ad in the paper, same thing. I mean it's a combination of putting your name out there, marketing yourself or your business, but you also have to have something to drive that. So um if you are strictly a um Facebook, Instagram type sensation, okay, that is huge part of it, but there's just a very, very small, small niche. And they probably have their own people, and that's probably how they built their brand or built their product, is off of social media, off of this, that, and so we don't have it that way. So we s we are not selling a good that you get in the mail that you go pick up and take home with you. So uh we sell a promise, and and people sometimes have ag you know have a negative view of that. So we have to sell ourselves as being you know community involved or or you know, this or that, whatever uh we're working on at that time, but we also have to be hustling, you know. We we have my girls hustle every day looking for someone to talk to, and a conversation is how we actually make our sales. So I don't we have to have both.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So to our insurance people listening out there, like insurance agent owners and things like that. What would you say that like if their phone's not ringing and they're like, we have no idea what to do next? Like, I know you've been in this position, at least while we've been together, I know you have. And so, what would you think that that next step is for them if they're like they can't hire the marketing broker, they can't hire someone to come in house and do marketing. What do you think they should do?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I mean, you got to get out in your community and get involved. Um, you go out and shake hands, and you know, unfortunately where I'm at, we don't have a lot of community involvement events. Um, so whenever there is one, you have to get out there and it. Uh that to me um is a direct marketing that's like shaking hands. I I've I've heard of stories where and I've had team members that do this and where and I guess I could say I've done it to some degree, where they're get getting gas,

Community Involvement And Handshakes

SPEAKER_01 5:43

and if they see someone, they immediately, hey, let me get in my card. Yeah. Because we sell something that everyone has to have. Yes. Right? So we sell sell insurance. Every state requires you to have it for your vehicle. There's no way out of it. Yeah. And if you own on your own mortgage on have a mortgage on your home, more than likely, they're requiring you to have it too. Um, with prices and and things costing so much anymore, anything you buy, most likely, in most cases, have a bank loan, which require insurance. So um we we have something that people have to have, but they have a choice because there's a lot of places to go get that right. And all of ours is really driven on price. So you just have to be able to break that conversation open and say, Hey, let me give you a chance. Just give me a chance. It doesn't cost anything. Um and anymore, that's starting to be kind of a even a hurdle to get over. People are just like, now you're not only are you trying to battle on price, now you gotta have can I just get a couple minutes of your time? Right. We're begging for time anymore. People are just so busy.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Everything is so technology, but everybody wants something, instant gratification, and the oh just go online and look it up and then you know, but that when you're uh in the model we have, we need that direct like, oh, let me call you or you call me and we'll try to do it, you know, as fast as we can. So I have to even slow my girls down, like, don't go so fast. Let's have conversations and know what we're doing, you know, what we're insurance.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

So well and having those conversations helps with your cells because then you can talk about life insurance, then you can talk about the other benefits that you guys have, you know, and really getting that conversation going.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, that's that's the key to it, is deepening, you know, your relationship. And this day and time, I mean we are fortunate that we have agents who are who are local and in most communities that you know we don't we're not a call center. We don't you know you you call and you're gonna get me or someone on my team, and so we have that advantage. But uh back to your original question is I mean, just calling someone or using some internet company that's gonna say, Oh, we're gonna get you this and I mean there are lead providers and you can buy leads. Um but you know, we all know in the in the industry we know the close rate's very low on those. So do you want to spend your money on that? Do you want to spend it on in your community where someone in local is at least gonna get something out of it?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah. So let's talk about all the marketing stuff that you've done over seven years. Whenever you started out, I'm sure it was a bunch of like hoo-rah, new guy in town. Well, you weren't new in town, but new agent in town, um, really getting into that community. So once all that fluff is like I call that goes away, what was probably the next one or two steps that you did in marketing?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I remember right off the bat I was dealing with a marketing firm and they started talking about, well, we got to set up your Google My Business page. I didn't even know what that was.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And so they had to go in and establish my location and all this stuff. And I I didn't realize at the time, I thought you just set it and leave it, but then you start learning as you go on, like that doesn't work. Like Google's like uh that's that could be spam or we don't know you. And and seven years in, sometimes

Google Business Profile And SEO Reality

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I think Google still don't believe I'm real, you know? They're like, Oh, are you sure you're really there? Yeah. I'm here every day. But yeah. Um, so I remember setting that stuff up and learning like SEO. I remember for hearing that for the first time, you know, and um I was like, SEO, like what does that mean? And yeah, and then they try to explain it to you, and basically it's just like, oh, so the internet knows who you are. And again, seven years later, we're still working on SEO, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Like literally, we talk about it every day.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Every day. It's always something it's the thing right now, you know. And um and we're learning how Chat GPT now, and or all these AI, I shouldn't just use Chat GPT, but all these AI things are now what they're just out here reading. They're just a a really, really fast searcher, like a you know, uh a human searcher that's just unbelievably fast.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

It's like they can read your mind through your question.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah, and then they go out and scrape the internet that quick and just you know aggregate all this data in front of you. And so um now we're

AI Changes Search And Training

SPEAKER_01 9:40

learning, oh now we have to SEO, why is SEO poor? Oh now, because AI is reading that too. You know, it's not just your everyday shopper. Now we're competing with AI space, like, hey, we want AI to tell about us, you know, and so now we have this in front of us. So it's always something changing.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

And how do you think that that affects your sales? Like we're talking about like AI and trying to compete on the internet and stuff like that. Like, what have you seen in your sales maybe pitches? Have you changed that a bit about it? You know, like how have you really framed your mindset around it?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Well, there's training. Um that is you know, you're talking to AI. Do we know if that's effective or not? I I don't I think it's still too early to know. Um it is a training tool, just like going to a seminar or listening to a podcast. Like you it's this is a job where you throw shit against the wall to see if it sticks, you know. And um we do know that, you know, back to the marketing side and SEO, we do know that stuff works. Um so that's not necessarily throwing it against the wall, but this AI stuff is so new, you know, we know it aggregates data, we know it gives you tons of information um at the snap of a finger. Uh training against it, I I d you know, I think there's still a lot to be learned about that. Uh, we have a training platform that um that that you can train against and it has a conversation and it'll give you feedback. Oh, you talk too fast, talk too slow, use this word too much, blah blah blah. So I uh is that effective? I guess we'll find out soon.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Whenever you hire new salespeople, what's the first five days look like with them?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Chaos. Absolute chaos. So if you you know, with our company and that we're tied to, if it's just a lot too. Yeah. Got onboarded with training and access and all the things, and the first week is basically just trying to keep them from going like I can't deal with this. You know, we just had that. I had one started work one day and and the technology piece and the access and all that was so much that I think she was just like, There's no way I'll figure this out, and she ran for the hill. So that's the biggest thing. It's not day one through five, those are just yeah, trash days, those are just wasted money, you know, you just getting on board,

Onboarding New Hires Without Panic

SPEAKER_01 11:54

and then you know, if they're licensed, you know, day you know, six through twenty five or so is kind of the really the meat and bones of it. It's when we start teaching them like how to access the system and quoting and things like that. And and with technology and AI and all this stuff, everything is getting faster and easier to do, but they're still a process. Having conversations with the customer, presenting quotes, things like that is that's where you're really your made or break.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

So I know that you've been in sales before this. Um what do you think that the difference is is that sales job versus what you do now? Well, so the I guess you need to kind of fill them in on what that sales job is job I had before.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I mean, it was what everybody wants. We had the product, everybody. We had the number one uh market share. We we owned 80, 90 market share in the Harries with the colour.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

He sold alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah, I was in the beer business. So and I was with the brands that sold, and so it w wasn't hard. Um, but I can also uh tell you like if you had a new brand come along or something new that was and say it was trending in somewhere else and hasn't really got their area yet, then getting those on the shelf and getting people to give it a try was it was built off relationships. I mean, getting people to try something like that, they're gonna give Type their money for a period of time. We were always really good about helping

Selling Relationships When Price Rules

SPEAKER_01 13:16

them with it, but just getting them to try sometimes, they were just so hard to get people to move. And and so how that correlates today is that I have a brand that everybody knows, yeah. Um, and sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. However, nonetheless, right, so it really comes out at that point of price, and then sometimes we're close on price, and then it's a relationship issue. So I mean I've had people that have changed their business to me simply because of a relationship that may not be s technically saving money, right? May even sometimes paid more, but they were like, I'm buying this for you because I want you.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

And so we have developed that kind of role in our office where we have people coming in our office that only want to talk to this person or that person or that person. So we've even set our new call system up, our phone system up that way, is where they can dial the direct person that they deal with all the time. So that sometimes has made things faster and sometimes it causes a little bit of chaos, but we're still working on that. But at any rate, it's all about relationships.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

And ultimately, we're in the people business. I mean, marketing sells, it's all about people and how we figure them out and having to deal with them and have those conversations that are awkward and you know, you know me. I've been like begging for no's the last six months. Like, stop ghosting me. Just tell me no. Like, I don't know what else to say, you know, except for just like, bro, what's up? You know, you got a problem, tell me about it, you know. But I think marketing and sales, you know, I used to think that I wasn't a salesperson until you came along and you're like, literally, that's what you do. And I'm like, I mean, I guess that's kind of what I do.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

If you want a bunch of no's, just come to the office. Let me hook you up. I can get your ear full of no's.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Remember, I did work in the office a couple of times.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Well, they did hit you on the phone by getting people to tell you no.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I literally worked in his office for like three days. It was the worst three days of my life. I don't know how he does the general public and all of our insurance people listening. I don't know how y'all do the general public because there's it's a lot. People are a lot. At least I deal with business owners and not general public, although they're kind of shitty too. I shouldn't really say anything. They really are kind of shitty sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Some of the hardest people I deal with sometimes are business owners.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah. I mean, great point. Great point. So I hope you guys learned something. Sales marketing, they go hand in hand. Um, I've kind of thought earlier we should compare them as cousins. I don't know, that didn't really go anywhere. So there's that. But I mean, they're not like they're not siblings, but they're kind of cousins. They definitely go together. But you guys understand from listening to the other episodes that marketing is very important for your business. You also hear me say that it is different than sales, and that's why I was like, yo, we got to talk about the difference between sales and marketing.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Well, I mentioned earlier, like you go build get a billboard and all that. Yeah. That's tangible. People can drive down the road and look at my billboard eyeball. They can look in their magazines or papers or whatever, and when you do digital marketing, that's putting it out there. And it's like, oh, I'm gonna go look at my website, you can look at it, or you maybe have your access to your analytics and oh, people are actually seeing it or they're not seeing it or whatever. But that it's not tangible, and that's what you and I have had conversations about. It's like I'm selling someone not tangible, you're selling them digital marketing that may not be per really tangible. You know, they're having a trust that what you're sending out there is is working and and you use it through analytics and see numbers, but they want to see numbers that turn into dollars, and that just there is no that was. Let's talk about that. Yeah, so you asked about it initially, like one of the things I learned is I learned there is no way to calculate ROI on marketing. You cannot do it. There's no way to quantify I am spending $1,000 on XYZ on Google Ads and say, I made $2,000 off of that. You can't do it. You just can't do it. And that, for as a business owner, is the hardest thing to grasp. And you either have to accept it and say, This is just cost of doing business, right? This is the same as paying rent on this building, this is the same as turning the lights on, having employees, it is all the same. Yeah, you cannot quantify what I put into marketing back. If I go buy a thousand dollars worth

Why Marketing ROI Is So Hard

SPEAKER_01 17:25

of koozies, golf tees, and go hand them out at a golf tournament, there's no way to say, Oh, I just got that thousand dollars back, because you know, if you directly handed it to you and said, Hey, here you go, and then they call and you get a quote to get their business off of it, well, maybe you could quantify it that way, but what's the difference in putting it out on Google and all of that? There's just I mean, you can track it, there's certain ways to track it and try to tie it together, but there's technically no direct calculation for ROI that I've seen. And maybe there is, and I just haven't, you know, found.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Well, I mean, if you have like a product or something, or if you have a service that you're running a special and you're like, in this magazine, I put this coupon. Like, that's the only way. But with what you do, absolutely not. And even with what I do, it's absolutely not. I mean, if I run ads for, you know, my studio here, well, I mean, I could see, okay, I've got a couple of people that came, but how do I know it came from that ad? You know? And I think that's what's really frustrating in my world is that people go, I want the best bang for my book. Like, bro, like I get it. I want the best bang for mine too. I mean, I just had a client hire me on and he says, I have a thousand dollars, do the best you can with it. I mean, okay, well, what's our goal? You know, well, our goal is to get the phone ringing. Isn't that what everybody's goal is to do is get the phone ringing, you know? And so I'm like, well, we can do it on different platforms, and then I split that thousand dollar budget up to see which one's getting the most clicks, and that's the best way I feel like to make sure our strategy's working, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, well, give me that thousand, and then you go out here and start knocking on doors.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

That's another thing. Yes. Sales going door to door, having that, you know, personal touch is definitely something that's effective. That's why all these roofing companies do it. That's why they go after storms.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

I've thought about going door to door, but I'm afraid I'm gonna get shot or something.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

I mean, in your Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. Yeah. I mean, think about when people come to our door, we're like, bye.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

I had intention of doing that. I actually have a stack of door hangers have my information on there, and I really wasn't gonna too worry about too much about talking to them in person. Mainly just putting it on their door, you know, and letting them have that in their hand. Um, I even do direct mail, I don't really talk about that a whole lot, but that we've even go back to old school sometimes. We even have direct mail that the company will mail

Door Hangers Direct Mail And Relevance

SPEAKER_01 19:39

out that's been with the company before, and they will um um send it in like waves. So they'll send one and every so often they'll send another one and you they get like three mails or something like that. I never have to touch it and it goes out and it's very generic, but sometimes it's again it's another marketing piece. They're branding. They pick their mail up, maybe they just look at oh, junk, junk, junk, junk, but they saw my name, right? Yeah. So I paid whatever it cost me a dollar for them to just see my name, and that's that's what a billboard is. That's what a Google ad is, that's what a Facebook post is. It's just being relevant. And that's to me today and marketing. That's all you're you're spending money to have your picture in front of people, your name in front of people, to be top of mind when they say, I need insurance, I need pressure washing, I need yard service. Like, oh, I remember this person or that person. That's what you pay for. It's it's just a different form of advertising.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah, and it's all trial and error. What's working for you, what's not. And it's okay to have different buckets. You don't have to put everything in one.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah. So what if what if these people ask you, like, okay, hey, um, I give you I've given you $500 and I don't have it. Well, are you advertising anywhere else? Right. Do you advertise for the paper? Like, do you buy ads in the paper? Yes, I buy ads. Have they do they give you a ROI? Right. Like, how do you know? Now you said something that I had talked about before is like you put some kind of coupon or something, you can track it, but That's not every business though. That's not that most of them don't track that. No. They don't track that to see. Um if they did, they would find out that they're have a very low ROI on it.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Oh yeah. And I've also run into, you know, people that want to charge 10 to 15k for their product or their service, yet they want to tell me they have $500 a month to spend. So it depends on who your person is that you're trying to reach, who's that clientele? That's how much money you need to think about spending. And if you read my book, Market Like a Boss, I've got it all broken down in there about how much money and percentages you should be spending on marketing to reach the revenue that you want that year. That's really what your end goal is. It's like, how much revenue do I want to make? How much sales do I want to make? And then you break it down that by the percentage. You may be like, well, I don't have that cash flow. I've been there. You've been there. We don't have that cash flow. So then you really got to get creative. And sometimes that means we as the business owners have to hustle. I mean, I have to sell every day and I'm almost done with this. I'm ready to have a sales team that's like, yo, you do your thing. I'm gonna go over here and I'm gonna teach people, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, I think they recommend in my industry, I think they recommend 10% of your gross revenue to be allocated to marketing.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, they weren't supposed to know that. They were supposed to buy my book and figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Oh, well, every industry is probably different.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

The average is actually 25%.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Oh. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

The average is 25% in what you want to make. So you're welcome, but still go buy my book. But whatever. But yeah, and with insurance, I could see where 10% would make sense just because of maybe like what you're getting back and you're only getting pay like every six months, type of situation. Like for that. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

And that number, I'm I may be off on that number. I think that's what I heard one time, but it could be as high as twenty dollars.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

So if they're like, what's the easiest way to market and get leads in? Do you think that that's buying leads from those lead sources you've done before?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Well, you want the easiest way or the bet or the well, so for easy everyone says easy.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

That's why I broke it down to easy.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Okay. Well, um Well they say um cheap isn't good, good isn't cheap. So uh if you g if you want the easiest way, yeah, go buy leads. And you're gonna close maybe two percent of those. Uh on a two percent conversion depending on and leads, oh, that's a whole nother thing that's changed too. You know, you used to I could get leads for a couple bucks apiece, now they're fourteen, fifteen dollars. And so when you're closing at two percent, well, that is an empty hole. Uh that hole goes deep, deep, deep, and if you don't

Buying Leads Versus Building Trust

SPEAKER_01 23:30

put something in there, it doesn't you know, you you lose a lot. Now, the good thing is is we recycle those occasionally. Um but at the end of the day, that's an expensive phone number and that's all you're getting.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, that's all you're getting, and you're hoping they pick up I mean, the several times that you try to call. So let's talk to the people that may have some salespeople that are um struggling a bit. I know you've had salespe uh lots of people through your office. So what have you done to really help them listen? You know, do you listen to their conversations? Do you let them ask questions? Walk us through that.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah, crazy as it may sound, I'm going through one right now. We had a pretty bad month last month. Uh and so we're not really hitting on all cylinders right now, this month again, and something's happened. I don't know what it is. Um I I don't know if they've lost a sense of urgency or or what, but we're going through it now. And Monday morning I have a plan in place that I'm gonna reinstitute with them and um we're gonna start having one-on-one accountability meetings. Love that. Um, and then we're

Accountability Meetings To Reset Momentum

SPEAKER_01 24:32

gonna have group group win uh we're gonna have those on Mondays, and on Wednesdays we're gonna have group group meetings and just kind of see where everybody's at just to check in. How are we? I'm gonna break them down by the week. They're gonna start giving me goals for that week, and then on Wednesday we're gonna check in, and on Friday we're gonna see where we're at. Um they're gonna send me emails of every Friday of a tracking of everything they've done, and so we're gonna have to just go back to that. I think that they've lost a little um feeling of being held accountable, and I think it's time we you know went through a promotional period in the first part of the year, and their numbers, you know, they knew that that was important, so they pushed it, and now we're kind of not in that. Um so we're gonna have to make some changes. I'm in looking, talking to a guy right now about investing in some some one-on-one training. Have them come to my office and train with my people. So, you know, what's the ROI on that? There you go. There you go. There's another investment.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Investing into people and salespeople and employees, and you know, I have a really great girl that works for me, yet she's doing the best she can. It's just not closing. And it's not because of her, and it's is a process, it does take time, and people just kind of suck these days, but it is all about holding them accountable because we, as a business owner, we have discipline. I mean, we discipline ourselves. We wake up every day, we have to come to work because if we don't, we don't provide for our family. So we're trying to hold them accountable as well, and that's the best way to help train them up for sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah, it takes a lot. I mean, I've done the thing too about the no's. You need I need you to get me 20 no's today, 25 no's, whatever that number is. And they find out really quick, like, oh, I got a bunch of no's, and then when that one yes turns, it's like, well, that wiped out all the no's right. And so, you know, I've got one that's a proven, got a proven track record, you know, just started with me. And I mean, I know her potential, and she's just not there. And you know, at some point you start I start taking it personal. I was like, is it new? Like, what have I have I am I not providing for you or am I not doing something that you need? Yeah, and so that's the part of the one-on-ones. It's like, what do you need from me? Because I know you know what I need from you and I'm not getting it. So now, okay, is there something I'm not doing or I'm not providing? And you try to balance that out because the next steps, you know, are more harsh after that. So um I've had to do this before with a different team, and and they kind of shook their head a little bit and like, oh, okay, okay, I got it. Now I I gotta get with this. And so times are changing and we're gonna change with it. And you got to. The message is basically you either change and do what has to be done, or I'm like to find somebody else that can. And that sounds rough, but that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Gotta do what you gotta do, because it's your business, your future, your legacy that you're holding on to and you know, leaving out there for sure. So ultimately, I mean, you just tell everyone once you hired me, your whole business like turned around. Marketing broker really helped you out there, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Well, you know, I I do appreciate everything you've done for us, and and I I can. I mean, I can go.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

It was just a joke. It's okay, you don't have to do that. I was just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

You suck.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

No, no, keep going, tell me how great I am.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah. So I mean, I you know, we we do appreciate the things you do for us and um the you know, some of the creative ideas you do to help me, and then plus also uh, you know, the social media things that you do for us, and we're learning and exploring on another sector of it, and hopefully we're gonna be able to crack that code and and uh really, really be able to have something to show for it. And that's that's kind of been the piece that I've wanted to kind of get a hold of for a while. And it's just hopefully we can figure out this technical stuff and make it work, and if we can, it's gonna be really good.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

And having a partner that is also a business owner helps a lot with our dynamic, but then also it helps that we're in two different worlds that technically can help each other with the sales and the marketing. We help train each other, we help hold each other accountable, making sure, and he also gets like all the insights into the new things that I have going on. So, but then that means you're my guinea pig. So that's fine. I'm like, hey, I need five hundred dollars. Let's throw it over here, let's do it over here, let's put it over here and see what this this does.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Sometimes it's worth a try. I mean you never know. I've spent more trying and got a whole lot less out of it.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

So yeah, and you don't have a service fee with me. It's literally just all going into the marketing. I do okay, you're right. That dinner the other night. I get that. Yeah, yeah, I totally understand.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

The trips, the dinners.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

The trips. Okay, guys. So hope you enjoyed that. If you have any questions, you can always DM me, but follow him, Nick Tubberville. Actually, just Google Nick Toverville Insurance Arkansas, since we can't say the rest of it. Um, and make sure you follow him on social media because that'll make me look really good. I would really appreciate that. All the people from this podcast, you know, would be really great. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Follow along and they can see what you do for me.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

That's exactly right, for sure. Well, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Anytime.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Love you, mean it.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Love you.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Okay, we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye.