Adults Need Stickers Too: Leadership Lessons with Brian Gottlieb

Alan and Chris talk with Brian Gottlieb who recently sold his companies for $100MM. That’s right 100MM! His secret? He did it through starting with a solid vision statement and then building his team and focusing on execution, sales, and consistent training. This episode explores how Gottlieb executed on those 6 things. Did you know our amazing voices can go beyond just the microphone? Yes, we have video! Subscribe to our YouTube channel here!

-----

Brian’s Links:

•  LinkedIn | @Brian Gottlieb

•  Website | https://www.tundraland.com/ 

-----

GOLD NUGGETS:

(05:27) - Journey From Tradesman to Business Owner

(17:40) - Impacting Your Community with Business

(25:11) - Defining Your Definition of Success

(33:16) - Developing & Empowering Your People

(40:38) - Publishing Books and Giving Back

(48:31) - Experience Leads to Appreciation in Business

-----

Books Mentioned:

•  The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People | Stephen Covey

•  The Art Of War | Sun Tzu

-----

Previous guests on The Small Business Safari include Amy Lyle, Ben Alexander, Joseph Sission, Jonathan Ellis, Brad Dell, Chris Hanks, C.T. Emerson, Chad Brown, Tracy Moore, Wayne Sherger, David Raymond, Paul Redman, Gabby Meteor, Ryan Dement, Barbara Heil Sonneck, Bryan John, Tom Defore, Rusty Clifton, Duane Johns, Beth Miller, Jason Sleeman, Andy Suggs, Chris Michel, Jon Ostenson, Tommy Breedlove, Rocky Lalvani, Amanda Griffey, Spencer Powell, Joe Perrone, David Lupberger, Duane C. Barney, Dave Moerman, Jim Ryerson, Al Mishkoff, Scott Specker, Mike Claudio and more!

-----

If you loved this episode try these!

• Home Remodel Struggles and Million-Dollar Nightmares with Andy Apter

• Building Multiple Businesses in a Blue-Collar Industry | Seth Lewis

• Finding a Profitable Niche | Todd Howard

-----

Have any questions or comments? Connect with me here!

Transcript

Chris Lalomia: 0:00

Brian, this has been amazing. If you didn't pick something up and you stuck with us all the way through the whole 45 minute episode, you have learned a ton from Thunderland.

Brian Gottlieb: 0:10

Well, thank both of you. Thank both of you for the good work you do. You know you have such an amazing show. You understand what it takes to have a great business. People would really benefit from listening to the two of you and following you, and thank you for all you do for this industry. Really appreciate that.

Chris Lalomia: 0:26

Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I hope guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from any of your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. Uh oh, here we go again. Alan, you guys better be ready to listen and I got some stats that are saying that people are listening up into that 40 minute mark. So you guys need to start paying attention. Keep remembering to subscribe. Follow us, because you're going to pick up some great gold nuggets on the Small Business Safari.

Alan Wyatt: 1:17

Sometimes it takes you know some of the guests a little while to get rolling. I know people need to be a little more patient. No way, no, I don't.

Chris Lalomia: 1:24

Are you patient? Well, you are. Well, no, I'm way more patient than you. I'm not that patient. I actually. I listened to us at one and a half speed and even in front. So I'm like God, I'm really bored of that guy. Who is it? Oh, it's me. So that's why I don't listen to my own podcast.

Alan Wyatt: 1:36

I mean, sometimes I think I am listening at one and a half speed and I'm like, oh no, it's just Chris, yeah, all right.

Chris Lalomia: 1:41

So before we introduce our guest, this is going to allude to where he lives. So I live in Atlanta now, but I was born in Detroit or outside of Detroit in a little small town called Jackson. So I'm a long suffering Lions fan. I'm now a long, a shorter term long suffering Falcons fan. But one of the guys who played in the Falcons, brian Finnerin, told me. He said you know bucket list item, you got to go Lambeau Field. I said that's the absolute most hated place in the world for me to go. I'm not, it is on my bucket list. So my neighbor, his, his, his sister, her husband follow me, just follow me. Yeah, you need to write a chart was one of the original Green Bay Packer executives. She says Chris, if you've ever wanted to go to Lambeau Field, I would be happy to give you my tickets because my kids have moved away and we found it. So this fall, september 28th, the Detroit Lions on Thursday night are going to play the Green Bay Packers and I got tickets on the 40 yard line, baby.

Alan Wyatt: 2:41

So you're in. You're in the middle of the Green Bay like die hard long time fans and you're going to be sitting there with your stupid lion gear on.

Chris Lalomia: 2:48

And so that's the thing, and all my life I literally I think I've had one lion shirt, so, but so, yes, so we are going to be going up to Green Bay. What does that have to do with our guest? Because he's from Green Bay, give us the Darth Vader. So, guys, we have an incredible guest on Brian Gottlieb, formerly of Tundra Land Home Improvements. But this is the people, this is the guy that you all aspire to be.

Alan Wyatt: 3:17

Right, this is the guy who we have started our coverage again, do I mean?

Chris Lalomia: 3:22

I didn't. In fact, when I first, when he first told me the number, what he sold, that I thought he was off by two zeros. He said yeah, man, I sold and it's gone, sold it and the number was what Brian?

Brian Gottlieb: 3:33

Yeah, well all three businesses combined were doing 150 million in revenue and I sold them all for just under 100 million, so it was a pretty, pretty good exit for Green Bay, wisconsin, not a bad exit for Green Bay.

Chris Lalomia: 3:47

That could buy a few season tickets there Green Bay, which are hard to get, accordingly. But, brian, thank you so much for coming on, looking forward to kicking around with you guys, because I think, I think we're going to learn quite a bit. But before we start that, did you really go to Harvard?

Brian Gottlieb: 4:01

You know, it's a really funny story because, first of all, I'm the guy and, by the way, thanks for having me on your podcast. You two do such a great job, you have so many great guests and people would benefit to always listen to you. So then Harvard we'll talk about Harvard. So, most people don't say I went to Harvard.

Alan Wyatt: 4:15

It's a funny story, so go ahead. This is good. So please know I'm the guy that barely graduated high school.

Brian Gottlieb: 4:21

You know I was one hiding the back of the classroom Don't call on me, don't make me read, don't do anything. And how can I? How can I get there? How can I? How can I get by without doing my homework? I mean that was too much 80 ADD.

Brian Gottlieb: 4:34

But what happened is when I started Tundra Land and the business was growing and when I got to 30, 40, 50, 70, 100 employees, I really had no idea what I was doing. This. The business was growing beyond my capabilities and I heard about this executive education program at Harvard Business School. So I applied. I didn't think they'd even accept me, it's just, I applied and they accepted me and I got to tell you I was absolutely thrilled and totally petrified at the same time, and it was a three year class. But what I learned in that process is it's a very blurry line between that which we're afraid of and that which is a weakness. You know, at the time I was a different person when I was in high school and you know today I was passionate about learning and it's really interesting. It was a. It was a transformational experience for me and, you know, I think it really played into the exit that I had.

Alan Wyatt: 5:26

Awesome. I'm still processing what he just said blurry line between what you're afraid of and what is your weakness. Yeah, sometimes we think let's get some gravitas.

Chris Lalomia: 5:35

That's a Harvard. That's a Harvard line. That's a huge gold nugget. I was writing it down and I'm going to go back and re, re, re-listen this to make sure I wrote a bug for you. Yeah, why don't you expand on that one? What? What do you mean by that? What? What can we take into account?

Brian Gottlieb: 5:45

Well, even if you think about public speaking right. Some people are absolutely petrified to get up in front of an audience, so they think they're not a good public speaker, when in fact, with a little bit of practice, they get more, more confident, more confident, more confident. Before you know it, they're a really good public speaker. We can't ever think that we don't want to mistake fears and weaknesses because it can take us down a bad place.

Chris Lalomia: 6:08

I think that's well said. I love that one. All right, let's go back to the beginning. You're a high school. You made it through. You didn't get the GED. You made it, got all the way through it. Did you grow up in Green Bay?

Chris Lalomia: 6:20

I grew up on Long Island, so yeah, just because that accent doesn't sound like that, because I went to school five hours north. That was three, no, five hours north of Milwaukee. I went to Michigan Tech up in the UP and I was like I know those accents and that's not yours. So you grew up in Long Island.

Brian Gottlieb: 6:34

Yeah, grew up in Long Island and made my way all around the country and you know you, you women will take you around the country. You know how that goes.

Alan Wyatt: 6:40

So here I am. Yeah, that figures, there we go. That's good All right.

Chris Lalomia: 6:44

So what did you do coming out of high school?

Brian Gottlieb: 6:47

I worked with. I worked in the trades. I worked with my hands, I did custom glass and mirror work. I was a glazer and what's interesting is when I was about 32 years old I had a back injury where I actually ripped my disc and I could no longer work with my hands. I thought I'm in big trouble, so I had to learn how to sell. So I became a salesperson and it's interesting. You know the things that we think are going to really, you know, ruin our lives, take us down a really good path.

Chris Lalomia: 7:14

Yeah, isn't that the truth it is. How about that? You so you're 32,. You're still working with your hands. You're in the trades. Are you still in Long Island?

Brian Gottlieb: 7:21

No, I was living. I was living on the West Coast where out in LA oh wow, Look at you man. You know I just kind of want to get around a little bit. You know it's, it's a quick drive.

Chris Lalomia: 7:33

LA, new York, but you're living in Green Bay, yeah, you know and and I think for the leadest that live in New York and the elitists that live out in California, they think of Green Bay, as some put on, a horrible, worst place ever, which I again I tell you is coming from Detroit, lionfand. Of course it is. But no, having been there because we're actually going up to, one of my college buddies lives in that area, lives in Appleton, it's gorgeous.

Brian Gottlieb: 7:56

That's where I'm actually at. That's my home is. It's in Appleton. Okay, great community, yep.

Chris Lalomia: 8:00

Yeah, so yeah, great, great community, great place to be. So I, you know, I'd say to the people on the east and left coast you know, stay there. Yeah, exactly, leave us alone here in the middle.

Alan Wyatt: 8:11

But I love what he said, though. I mean, it's amazing how often something amazing comes out of something that you think is horrible.

Chris Lalomia: 8:18

Right, so how do you get?

Alan Wyatt: 8:19

yourself out of that. Yeah, you just quit freaking out and just see what opportunities lie, what?

Chris Lalomia: 8:24

You're shaking your head. Easy to say, hard to do, brother man. I mean, my back got ripped out and my whole livelihood was me using my back to do my job.

Alan Wyatt: 8:32

I think I'd be freaking out, for a long time, I'd say, if you lost your voice for a second. I can't do that, I'd be freaking out bro.

Chris Lalomia: 8:38

I've affected. Maybe thinking about that way too long. Yeah anything but that it started shaking. That's right. So how long did it take you to go from freaking out to hey, this might be a great opportunity.

Brian Gottlieb: 8:49

It was a process Until I started realizing wow, when you know how to sell, you can really make a lot of money in the home improvement industry. So it was a good run. It was a good run and, of course, I worked my way up to a sales manager. And then I had this bug that I loved training and developing people. In fact, I loved it more than selling. I really was passionate about that, so I decided to hang out my own shingle and consult with companies in the home improvement space across the country. It was a great journey because I got to see a lot of different types of companies and I kept the journal on wow, if I ever open up a business for myself, these are the things I'm definitely going to do.

Chris Lalomia: 9:27

That is such a good thing I'm never going to do, and I had two great lists to go with.

Chris Lalomia: 9:31

That is a great story for anybody. Again, a lot of our audience. You're thinking about taking that leap and starting your own business, or you're in it and trying to figure out a scale. Just think if you were to write down all the businesses you've met and the big gold nugget you got from each business you met or talked to and you went back and you went back and reviewed that list pretty awe inspiring, I bet for a lot of us.

Brian Gottlieb: 9:52

Yeah, really important.

Chris Lalomia: 9:53

So all right, so you were doing sales. What were you selling? Four season sunrooms. All right, so you're doing the four season sunrooms Nice. Out in the California area.

Brian Gottlieb: 10:03

In Wisconsin. I was selling class out in California and sunrooms in Wisconsin because everybody needs a sunroom in Wisconsin.

Chris Lalomia: 10:12

That's got to be a hard sell, right? Hey, do you want to use this sunroom for two months?

Alan Wyatt: 10:19

It's because of the bugs right For $50,000,.

Brian Gottlieb: 10:21

I can get you a sunroom that works for three months, Three months yes, let me tell you your options.

Chris Lalomia: 10:27

I love it All right, so you go to work with these guys and then you start doing the consulting gig.

Brian Gottlieb: 10:31

Yeah.

Chris Lalomia: 10:32

So you started in 09. What a great time to really start. I started my business in 08. What a shitty time to start. Just if I was just one year later. It would have been easier. But why 9? What was the opportunity?

Brian Gottlieb: 10:44

I just got tired of being on the road, living out of hotels, missing my kids' birthdays and sports games and all that kind of stuff. And that was just time. I just wanted to get off the road and look, I wanted to take a shot at it. So actually I opened up a sunroom company in 2009, the first business before Tundra Land became Tundra Land. We were actually called the Sunroom Design Group and we were doing sunrooms and it was me, it was a plastic folding table and $3,000 in cash and there wasn't another $3,000 behind that in case it didn't work. So these were interesting times, but there's nothing like desperation to grow a business. How old were you when you?

Chris Lalomia: 11:23

started that.

Brian Gottlieb: 11:24

It's 50 years old.

Chris Lalomia: 11:26

So you're 50 years old and I started my business at 37. And I go back to high schools and I talk to kids and I said I don't care how old you are, as long as you put the business plan, get the upfront work together and I highly advise not starting a business with just $3,000 in a plastic table, by the way.

Alan Wyatt: 11:45

So you blew out your back when you're 32? Okay?

Brian Gottlieb: 11:50

Yeah, but you know I wanted to open up a different type of business. I wanted to. 2008 was an interesting time because a lot of people a lot of good people were losing their jobs. The economy was really just taking a dump and I wanted to create more than just a home improvement company I wanted to build. The vision was to build a brand that was truly woven into the fabric of the communities that we serve. And because because what 2008 revealed is a lot of really great people lost their jobs and that meant there were a lot of great people to hire out there. So what a great time to start a business.

Brian Gottlieb: 12:25

And back then you could do a lot of things where there were empty billboards and I could cut a deal with the billboard company and say, hey, put my name and number up there and if I sell something, I'll give you a percentage of the sale. So I was able to pull a lot of deals like paid for performance. Before. That was cool. So pay for sale, pay for performance, and I was able to really build out a business. The other thing I did early on from day one is I set up a separate checking account and 7% of every single dollar I collected went into this account, whether it was a $100 check or a $5,000 check. That was my marketing budget. I want to always have a marketing budget ready on hand with cash so I can continue to grow the business, the engine of the business.

Alan Wyatt: 13:07

What a great gold nugget.

Chris Lalomia: 13:09

That is a huge gold nugget because, again, especially a lot of us when we first start that business and you have that one checking account, when it's big you feel good, and when it's really low and payroll is coming down on Friday, you're feeling really bad. But if you kept that other checking account, it's the same thing. My dad told me when I first started my first corporate job. He said he said, make sure you max out your 401k. So I can't afford to do that. He goes yeah, you can.

Chris Lalomia: 13:34

If you never see the money, he'll never know you had it and you didn't have any money before you got this job. You're all right and he's right, and the same thing with your marketing budget. If you don't do that, you could kill yourself. You'll kill your growth and the pattern of your head.

Alan Wyatt: 13:48

It's so important to have good, solid, consistent marketing and yet when it comes time to write that check, then some people get the little alligator arms. But the fact that you put it in a completely separate bucket, genius Love that.

Brian Gottlieb: 14:01

Yeah, look, I made a lot of mistakes in business. However, I think if I look back, when I reflect back on what were some of the really definable moments that helped me really scale this business to 600 plus employees Early on, when we started hiring people and I had three, four, five, six, seven people, I think about yeah, I have a Harley Davidson because Harley is located in Wisconsin, so everybody's got to have a Harley here. And when I'm by myself, I love jumping on my Harley and going for a ride, and the best road to go down is the one I've never been on. I might get halfway down a road, stop, turn around, smoke a cigar, go back the other way, and that's fine when I'm by myself on my Harley. But if I have 20 other people on motorcycles following me, they're like where's this guy going? Why are we going this way? Now we're turning around. I would drive them crazy.

Brian Gottlieb: 14:46

People need direction and purpose. People need to know where they're going, why are they here and what are we trying to accomplish. And I think the whole idea of having a really solid mission and vision early on, something that's aggressive but realistic from the vision statement aspirational what do we want to become? And a mission statement, that is, that again can be woven into the fabric of the organization. And the mission statement was to do well and do good. And, coming from 2008, we defined what to do well and do good means and what is the purpose of business. Very simply, it's to make a decent profit, decently. And we felt if we could make a decent profit decently, we would build a foundation that would be pretty much unstoppable.

Chris Lalomia: 15:36

I love that. You started with the vision being woven into the fabric. So as you started to grow you're 50 years old, you got a family counting on you Did the wife say, what the hell are you doing? Or she said, oh man, go get him Tiger, here you go, I got the best wife in the world and I started some consulting gigs on the side for cash flow.

Brian Gottlieb: 15:55

So you wear a bunch of hats. What was funny is I think it was two years in I had this bookkeeper and she said to me don't you think you ought to take a paycheck? And I'm like I never thought of that. You're in pain, everybody else trying to keep the edge.

Alan Wyatt: 16:09

So, by the way, all of our listeners now hate you, but go ahead. But he didn't need to take a paycheck. I know seriously.

Chris Lalomia: 16:17

Because I did. I had the business plan, I used mentors, I shared it with everybody. I said I'm going to break even 18 months. And this is I'm sharing this in 07, knowing that I was going to jump out in 08, leaving corporate America having no idea there's this thing called a recession is going to happen and everybody says, wow, that's pretty aggressive. And only one guy say, well, that'd be, that'd be pretty solid man. But in the home service space, it's going to be really hard for you to be able to do that based on the business plan you're showing me, because it was about marketing and I said no, no, I'm smarter than everybody and, of course, just like everybody else.

Chris Lalomia: 16:49

No, it took me two and a half years.

Brian Gottlieb: 16:54

All right.

Chris Lalomia: 16:54

So you kept growing things, you started moving it up as you went through your transitions from folding table to 100 million. Sale those transitions. What was the hardest transition for you?

Brian Gottlieb: 18:24

Look, I think that recognizing that early on, when a business is small, a lot of people are wearing a lot of different hats and it's very easy for the owner to become the bottleneck in the organization. And that typically happens when you have this vision of systems and processes, but if it's not written down, it simply doesn't exist. And I had to get to the place where even the most basic principles, the most basic systems and processes were documented, because without that, you really get stuck trying to grow. And then, beyond that is that when I started my business, if you asked me what kind of business we were, I would have said we're a construction company. If you'd have asked me I don't know, eight years ago, I would have said well, we're a sales and marketing company. That happens to be in home improvements.

Brian Gottlieb: 19:11

But if you ask me what really allowed the business to grow is, we thought of ourselves as a training organization. After all, we teach people how to answer the phone, we teach people how to set appointments, we teach sales reps how to close, we teach installers how to build, we teach homeowners why they should choose us instead of everybody else. We're a training organization. And as a training organization, we have to say then okay, what do we need to become excellent at? And so when you talk about, the challenges of growth is coming up with that list and then executing on it. It's all about execution.

Chris Lalomia: 19:43

It's all about execution. I was about to say one thing to come up with a list. We can all come up with a list. The next thing is and that's what nobody wants to hear is that the next really hard part is if we are a training organization and we're going to be woven into the fabric of our community and that's how we're going to do things. This is the list, but here's what we got to do each and every day, and it starts with showing up and then it becomes with applying yourself and then taking it in and learning and building your own skill sets.

Brian Gottlieb: 20:09

Yeah, and if I can share a story with you on how we woven into the fabric and how, if done properly, you can actually create your customers, our co-producers, in your business. And I'll share with you what I mean by that. Our mission statement was to do well and do good. Do well as a business and then we can do good for the community.

Brian Gottlieb: 20:29

One of our product lines was replacement windows and, as you know, when you put in a bunch of new windows in somebody's home, you take the old windows out and you throw them in the trash.

Brian Gottlieb: 20:38

And we thought you know what? That is such a shame that we just throw all these old windows away. So we started working with local artists, community members, business owners, elementary schools, high schools, the Green Bay Packers, the Milwaukee Brewers, and we would give them these old window sashes and we would ask them to turn them into a beautiful piece of art and they would create art pieces out of these window sashes. And then, once a year, we would display all of these art sashes in a public setting and we would do a giant auction and we'd raise a bunch of money and all the money raised would go to help another person in our community. It was called Windows for a Cause, and we actually set a Guinness World Record for the most painted windows in any place. But here's the thing about it we can't help somebody in our community unless somebody first buys windows from us. The customer is a co-producer in our mission statement and I think if you think about it that way, in business you can really differentiate yourself by getting your customer involved in your mission.

Alan Wyatt: 21:44

I'm almost speechless. I got to know how many windows there were, though, for the record, and at what point did you go? Hey, this might be a Guinness World Record.

Brian Gottlieb: 21:52

So we were doing this for years. In fact, the first veteran we helped he was a fellow named John Green. He was a Vietnam era war veteran that was stuck in a wheelchair for 40 years. I mean, just imagine that right. We raised enough money to get him a custom wheelchair that stands up. So John Green can stand up for the first time in 40 years over windows that would normally go into the trash painted by people in their community.

Brian Gottlieb: 22:15

But anyway, so we wondered, I wonder. I thought what is the? I wonder if there's a record for this. So I called up Guinness. I didn't know he had a phone number, so I Googled the phone up for Guinness. I got on the phone with them and they said I love this category, we love it, but we want 1,500 windows to be painted. That is, by the way, two tractor trailer full of windows. So we had to rent this exhibition center with folding tables everywhere and we did a community calling for people to come in from the community, bring your kids, bring your grandkids and do a weekend of window painting. So we had the whole community involved in this to help set the Guinness world record. We set the record with 1,651 painted windows.

Chris Lalomia: 22:55

It was pretty cool. What are you more? What are you more shocked at the fact that he could actually Google Guinness and they actually answered the phone, or that he did 1,500 painted windows and got people to paint them. The whole thing is so awesome. I mean it is so awesome. This is actually. I actually got a little goosebumps. I mean just thinking about having the mindset to put together what he just said. And then he laid out the other fact that he got somebody to stand up who hadn't been able to stand up for 40 years. I mean that's just cool, man. I mean we can talk about vacations and other houses and what success looks like on the outside. I think that had to be one of the probably for you, one of the most satisfying moments as a business owner.

Brian Gottlieb: 23:35

Yeah, yeah that. And are you familiar with our Baths for the Brave program?

Chris Lalomia: 23:39

I don't know if you, I am, but why don't you share it with everybody?

Brian Gottlieb: 23:41

and what you do there. Sure, you know one of the things when we when we exited sunrooms, one of the transitions in the business is that it looks it's really difficult to scale a business with complexity and and adding complexity to a business is easy. Removing complexity is hard. Simple is hard, complicated is easy, and when you have complexity in your business you then have to have unicorns to run the business and unicorns are really difficult to find and I think you know every business could really benefit from thinking about how do you constantly strip out the complexity inside of the organization. So we had to actually exit sunrooms. We sadly just didn't fit our business model anymore.

Brian Gottlieb: 24:21

When we took on Bath for modeling as a one day Bath business, we ran across a lot of situations that you know. There are people that really struggled to take a shower or a bath in their own home safely. We've seen a lot of sad stories and a lot of people in the military that you know served our country proudly are literally afraid to take a shower in their own home and they have. They don't have the financial wherewithal to do anything about it. We started our first, our first Bath project. We did for a veteran. It was this guy named Mike Alstein who did two tours in Iraq and when he came home from Iraq he was diagnosed with MS and, like that bam, he's in a wheelchair. We heard about his story. We had his, his mom, enter work with us. We entered Mike in a sweepstakes it was a fake sweepstakes, okay, he was the only entry, so surprised he won.

Chris Lalomia: 25:11

He didn't know. He was in the country. Okay.

Brian Gottlieb: 25:13

So what he won was he won a. He won a day at Lambeau Field, so a private tour of Lambeau Field in his wheelchair and an evening at a hockey game with all his friends there and we wheeled him out of the ice to thank him for his service and we pointed at the Jumbotron that showed that when he left his home in the morning our guys snuck in and totally crashed his bathroom and made it handicap accessible for him and that put us on a mission.

Alan Wyatt: 25:37

Brian, you make me want to be a better man.

Chris Lalomia: 25:39

I know Too better, alan, come on, I'm doing good, but you, I don't know, not kidding, no, it does. I mean that. Is that so that one Trump that put us on the mission?

Brian Gottlieb: 25:49

Yeah, so I formed this, this, this. It's not a nonprofit, it's just a thing. It's a thing. It's called Bass for the Brave. It's a movement and it's about surprising veterans with free bath projects just in time for Veterans Day every year, and it's done by like-minded companies across the country. We all participate in it. We contribute our labor, our materials. Last year, we crashed bathrooms in 23 states all at the same time. We've done over $1.5 million in free bathroom modeling and it's super cool.

Chris Lalomia: 26:24

That is super cool, I'm telling you, man, it's just that's the stuff. Again, going back to it, one of my really cool and really excited about it as a business owner, I love seeing my people solve problems that I can't solve, or I love having them coming together. But when you get to share some of that stuff with your community, as you talked about, that's just again the money that comes with the thing we talked about. Outside, looking in, oh my gosh, you sold your business for $100 million. Oh, you're the. Oh my God, you're amazing. But when you go back and you say this is my definition of success, what would you say is your definition of success? And if it's about money, that's great, but I, you know, knowing as much as I know about you not a lot, but enough what would you call your definition of success?

Brian Gottlieb: 27:07

So my definition of success is is leading the best version of myself and being and being committed to that right like Perform to the best of my ability on a daily basis. But to do that, my path to realizing, to realizing my full potential, travels through other people, first realizing theirs. The more I help others realize their potential, the more I'm realizing mine. So it's kind of like a partnership. It's kind of like a partnership. I do a lot of mentoring for people and I don't charge for, don't need to, you know it's. I just like to help others because the more I help others, the more, the more it feeds me.

Chris Lalomia: 27:44

Yeah, absolutely a man on that. I, you know we always joke. You know I'm in a monthly mastermind group here locally in Atlanta and we actually just had our meeting this week and we joked hey, if anybody ever finds that business that has no employees, no customers, sign me up because I'm ready to do that. But with all the headaches you had got up to a hundred, actually more than that, you got to 600 people, 600 people.

Brian Gottlieb: 28:05

Yeah, well, it's three different businesses, because out of the tundra land business I grew up to renewal by Anderson window locations and and then a jacuzzi bathroom model business in Arizona. I sold the Arizona business to jacuzzi they they have to, they wanted to replicate, they want their own company stores and they use that business as a platform. I sold my tundra land business to leaf home enhancements, which is, you know, number two on the top 500 list. Huge company, really great people. And I sold my renewal by Anderson businesses last year to the executive leadership team.

Chris Lalomia: 28:39

So it was to the people that you trained and grew Correct.

Brian Gottlieb: 28:43

Isn't that?

Chris Lalomia: 28:43

amazing. I love that part. So. So you're in Green Bay, you're running tundra land, you're growing it and you decided to Get into the renewal by Anderson, which is a franchise type business. Saw that. Yeah, yeah, it's a dealership. Okay, yep, how did you? How in the hell did you get to Scottsdale, arizona to do jacuzzi?

Brian Gottlieb: 29:03

well, arizona is a great market, because I went out there with some friends and we were going to the mall. If you go to the mall in Appleton, wisconsin, tundra land is there. Five other home improvement companies are there. We're all every set of leads at the mall China, you know. They've got their displays and they're hawking people in the mall. I went to Arizona. I'm like One thing that stood out to me is there's no home improvement company in the mall, and I started I'm like where is everybody? So I went to another mall. There was no home improvement company at a mall and I'm like this, this market was just, in my opinion, it was asleep at the wheel. It was. It was an it's an aging market. It's, it was ripe for, I think, disruption. I opened up the business. I moved a team of people out there that were ready to go and we we grew like crazy and I opened it up. In a year and a half later sold it. It was a Wow. So private equity, yeah, did you okay, jacuzzi, yeah, amazing.

Chris Lalomia: 30:02

I just I that's so fun because you just said simple and complex, you know, as I've opened up another branch of my trusted toolbox out in Athens, which is only an hour and 10 minutes away from my office, yep, but it totally but it's complex, and so you said, hey, you know what, I've been from LA to Long Island and now I'm in Green Bay. I mean what the hell I can run a business in Scottsdale. I mean that had to be there to be some thinking through that I mean.

Alan Wyatt: 30:27

it's not even a direct flight, I'm sure. Yeah, is there?

Brian Gottlieb: 30:29

a direct flight? Yeah, there is, but you know, it's interesting, as you know, chris, as you know and that was an important part of it, by the way how easy to get back and forth. It's three hours, you know, on a flight. But the the most important thing to replicate is culture, right, so that first and foremost, you have to make sure you can replicate your culture, because your culture is what holds up All of your systems and processes, because if people don't care about it, then they're not gonna do it. And and the and here's, and here's the other part of culture.

Brian Gottlieb: 30:57

You know, I would give tours of my business anytime Somebody wants to tour, even if they're a competitor. I could care less. You have a tour because if you want to copy our performance, you first had to copy what goes on inside of our people's heads, and that's culture. And when you have a strong culture and you think of yourself as a training organization Look, that's positives and negatives to that all of a sudden you have all this bench strength and you have to do stuff with these people, because you have all these people that are developed and trained and taught and Now they want to grow. And if I don't give them an opportunity to grow inside of my organizations. They'll find another place to grow, and so I need to create opportunities for them, and that makes that makes, by the way replication quite a bit easier.

Chris Lalomia: 31:40

Yeah, that's great. Again, this the phrase culture eats strategy for lunch. I just love that one. And In and I've also said this in your company. You have a culture in your company, whether you accept it or not, and whether you intentionally developed it or not. You have a culture and you better figure out what it is, because that's what's gonna drive success.

Brian Gottlieb: 31:59

You have a culture and, by the way, the lowest level of acceptable behavior is your culture. The lowest level of acceptable behavior that an owner tolerates In part defines what your culture is. Wow.

Chris Lalomia: 32:14

Yeah, he dropped that one on me. I actually dropped that in social media, and I saw that one, and I forwarded it to my sales manager and said bring that to your sales team. Well, I just know that. You know that's the beautiful thing home services.

Chris Lalomia: 32:27

It's a tough business, it's a unique business, but it's also can be a rewarding business, especially in our world. We are redo everything from bath and kitchen remodeling to decks, down to the punch list, the handyman stuff around, so you're taking care of people's number one asset it's good than saying this on the radio this week is that, for a lot of people, their home Is their number one asset in their portfolio, and if you're not helping them with it, making them realize that you're the best choice for them to keep their number one asset in perfect performing health, then we're not doing our job, and so I think that that line, though, is that your culture will will resonate out there with customers, and you got to know that, especially as a business owner, because if you can't Understand what your culture is and really know if it's going the right way, you might not be presenting yourself like you want in the marketplace.

Brian Gottlieb: 33:13

That's right, and and the owner, by the way, can inspect their culture by looking at how how are we hiring people? What is that process like? How are we terminating people? What's that process like? How are we promoting people and how are we compensating people? Those are the four buckets of inspecting culture how you hire, fire, promote and compensate at who you hire. Who you promote is eventually who you become, and we just need to always be cautious of of doing it properly.

Chris Lalomia: 33:42

Yeah, yeah, that's a great one as you were growing. So here you are. You start your business at 50. You get going. What were some of the inside the company? What were your favorite things to do and what were your most hated things to do?

Brian Gottlieb: 33:57

Well, when I, when I, will make a confession, the business was not always perfectly okay, to be clear.

Chris Lalomia: 34:04

I Was a perfect, every time, every day. Hi, brian, come on.

Brian Gottlieb: 34:08

There was a time, there was a time when I had a line outside of my door With people waiting to ask me a question so they can go and do their job. Talk about being a bottleneck. So so my, because you, I would be very busy doing things I had no business doing. You know, I remember trying to figure commissions and navigate my way through QuickBooks, and why am I doing this? And I think, again, one of the lessons is how do you hire to your weaknesses as soon as possible, but know that you're probably the worst person to onboard your weakness. You know, if you're not good, are you? Do you really want to be the one to teach them what to do? So it also. But it's also important to give that person when you hire to your weakness, make sure they have a loud voice at your table, because they're gonna bring a totally different opinion and you need to hear them.

Brian Gottlieb: 34:59

So I think my favorite thing to do was to really to really create personal ownership, that everybody thinks of themselves as an owner of the business, and to give them opportunities and to make a difference in not just in the community, but also training each other, and to care about themselves, to care about each other, to believe in themselves and to believe in each other. My favorite thing to do was probably developing others. My least favorite thing to do was anything regarding paperwork. So I took all the drawers out of my desk. I built the desk with a flat slab of wood and I thought if there's a piece of paper in my office, it's in the wrong place. That means I'm the bottleneck and somebody's not empowered. So that was just kind of like my little carry in the coal mine.

Chris Lalomia: 35:47

All right. So everybody gold nugget, you just heard it go back to your office, rip your desk out, throw it in the back, your house out and just put a piece of plywood up on some stilts, or that's right, or what else? Saw horses? Is that what we use in our business? Thank you, saw horses? Hey, don't worry, I'm a man in the trade.

Alan Wyatt: 36:06

I'm just, you want personal real estate. What do I do you?

Brian Gottlieb: 36:09

know. I think the secret, though, to developing people is that look, my wife and I together, we have six kids right, so we've got a lot of kids. We can all start another business with them, so we've got six kids.

Brian Gottlieb: 36:23

There was a time when they were on training wheels on their bicycle right, and when you want to take training wheels off, you put your hand on the back of the bicycle and you start walking and running behind them and you're like you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. Look, you can do this. And then you let go and they're like look at me, daddy, I can do this. I can do this. It's because belief is transferable. The child didn't believe until, but the father believed. The father believed in the child more than the child believed in themselves at that very moment.

Brian Gottlieb: 36:51

But through that process and through encouragement, you can actually transfer belief. The same is true with your employees. You've got new people in your business doing new things that they've never done before. They have fun, they have fear, they have uncertainty, they have doubt, and you want to be able to encourage them that you've got this. This is why I believe in you. This is why you're going to be successful. Belief is transferable and when you create an environment where people believe in themselves, the business growth will absolutely take care of itself.

Chris Lalomia: 37:25

You know, I just love this stuff. I mean and this is why, by the way, he is not published yet, but he is going to join the Publix Authors Club book soon. By the time you hear this podcast it'll probably be out and ready to rock and roll. So, but he's dropping so many great gold nuggets Cause I talk about this with our sales team all the time.

Chris Lalomia: 37:42

Your sales guys fall to their lowest level of belief when they're in front of a customer, and what I tell all my handymen is that it's right up there on our mission plaque in our office and every time we come in for training it says it right there. You are the face of our company. It's not Chris's company. I don't want everybody. You've never seen a billboard with my face on it. You've never heard, you know.

Chris Lalomia: 38:02

And now again, I have a lot of quote unquote friends in Atlanta, because they all ask for discounts. Oh no, no, Chris knows me really well. Can I get a discount? But I told him you're the face of the company, You're the artist, You're the one doing the work, they're the. You're the one they're gonna remember. If you're the salesperson, they're the one they're gonna buy from you. They're not gonna buy from Chris and the trusted toolbox, cause it's got a really cool name. They're buying from you and your belief, and if you don't believe in it then you can't do it. And so getting that it's one thing. To say it it's another thing to just keep, and then, when you see them start to do it, you start to see it happening. We just hit our 700th Google review. It doesn't sound like a lot.

Chris Lalomia: 38:36

Oh, it's my number, but my closest competitor only has 200 here in Atlanta. So that has been phenomenal, this great. But it shows the bleep, because if somebody's willing to go out there and type a review for a handyman, that means that they took the time to go out there and let their fingers do the walking, and that's talking so loud, right.

Brian Gottlieb: 38:55

Chris, you mentioned football before. If you like college football, you can see the players with the stickers on their helmets. Right, you know adults need stickers too. We would. We do that on installers our employee installers is we would give them red stars for their driver's door when they got a review for quality, safety, productivity and social proof for reviews, and they would get stars for their door and a bag of beef jerky. And they would. These guys would compete for stars on their doors and bags of beef jerky. But now they're driving around town with 27 stars on their door and they just it's their truck, it's their stars, it's their pride. And when we tell a home owner oh boy, you've got a 27 star installer shown up at your home today, they're gonna take great care of you. It just does so much for a full circle of just belief.

Chris Lalomia: 39:44

Love it. I love it, the beef jerky. Adults need stickers too. I think that should be the title of the episode. I always say do I need to get you a coloring book there? Snowflake, let's go. But adults need stickers.

Chris Lalomia: 39:58

No, we do, because again back to what we talked about when your vision and your mission is being intertwined into the community of what you do, when we talk about that in our company, people want to be part of something bigger. You know if my handyman I call him my lone wolves that have joined our wolf pack and that with our wolf pack you can get better, you can do more, you can provide for your families, you'll hit your own personal and professional goals. But they want to hear that we're doing things like with Children's Health Care Atlanta and give them back and we're actually doing something really cool. Alan, I didn't do something as cool as Brian, but I don't think anything we do is as cool as Brian. It's just not. But I got to tell everybody what we're doing.

Chris Lalomia: 40:34

So this kid got shot in the face. He's an 18 year old kid and his friend shot him in his face in his own basement and the kids having a lot of problems. And he's got a single mother who owns her own yoga studio and a friend turned me on to her and said hey look, she needs help. She has nowhere to bathe this kid in his house. There's nothing that's accessible, and so, with the Neri organization and with us leading the charge, we're remodeling her bathroom Awesome so the kid can actually have a shower and have a decent life and rehab. So yeah, it's pretty cool.

Chris Lalomia: 41:03

But you know that's been one of the Thank you for doing it, man Thank you for I appreciate it, but it's not as big as what you did, but it's something you know.

Brian Gottlieb: 41:11

No, it's actually. I don't, I don't agree. I think when you make a positive impact in the life of just one individual, that's how you take part in changing the world.

Chris Lalomia: 41:19

Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. All right, so, brian, let's talk about your book. What's the name of your book and how can people be able to find it and when's it coming out?

Brian Gottlieb: 41:28

So the name of the book is a secret. That's not the name of the book. It's not called a secret. The name of the book is being released in three weeks, okay, so, so we're going to we're going to lay this down. In August I will tell you first, I will tell you first, I will tell you what I tell you it's about. It's about culture, leadership and people development, specifically for this industry.

Chris Lalomia: 41:45

Beautiful, beautiful, love that, and when it comes back out, we'll probably pop back around and talk about another book that you can add to your library. Yeah, because one of the things we're going to talk about on my chrislalamiacom website is I'm going to start putting the published books out there and things that I have in my library, because I got a big bookcase in my office. Brian has one behind him in his own office right now, and so we're going to put out books that have helped me over the years, run the business and help them.

Alan Wyatt: 42:11

I like that idea, yeah, so that's awesome.

Chris Lalomia: 42:14

Well, I love that book title. Well, I don't know that you love the book. I don't freaking know it. It's a secret. Don't go look for a secret. There is a book out there called the Secret.

Brian Gottlieb: 42:22

There is.

Chris Lalomia: 42:22

Yeah.

Alan Wyatt: 42:22

That's awesome.

Chris Lalomia: 42:26

So, brian, we're coming to the end of the show, how else can people I mean, what are you doing now? So you just got none, you've sold your business. I do know you're getting out there, you're not, you're not going away. You got things you got to say because you got to give back. So what have you been doing? And how can people hear about you?

Brian Gottlieb: 42:40

Yeah, well, I do a lot of keynotes. I'm speaking, I'm speaking you mentioned, nari, I'm their keynote speaker out in Vegas this year, so that'll be fun. I'm speaking at a Yoho conference. I'm speaking at a Pinnacle conference, yeah, and I'm consulting with a couple of a couple of select companies. But and look, you know, what I do is I talk to strangers. When I'm on any social media and somebody is struggling with something, I said just, you know, give me a call and we talk. I'm trying to help strangers and it's kind of cool. It's just trying to make a positive impact in this world and I'm just having a great time. I'm just writing a book as a challenge. It's a challenge and I hear you.

Alan Wyatt: 43:15

I'm going to write the next one. I wouldn't know.

Chris Lalomia: 43:17

Yeah, so my book from the zoo to the wild, alan is a published author and on Amazon you can go find it out. My book title is not a secret from the zoo to the wild your guide to entrepreneurial freedom. Well, you're right, it was a process. It was hard, and I tell you what it was. A it was a process All right To get all that out. So I was like, hey, when's that second one coming? I said, ooh, it's still smart, because it's so hard to write. I said I'm just. Granted, I am trained as an engineer, so I've got my master's degree in engineering, where in my thesis, my advisor wrote this is gobbledygook. Go to the English department to learn how to write. And so for me to write a book was a big feat, similar to you going to Harvard after coming to high school. So that's awesome. You have been great. Brian Gottlieb you can see him out there or find him. I see him a lot on Facebook, where I see you probably the most. I don't know are you on LinkedIn at all.

Brian Gottlieb: 44:07

I mean, I'm on it and I check it like once every two weeks. Oh my gosh, I need to check my LinkedIn. You know that kind of stuff. But you can always find me on Facebook. It's an open profile.

Chris Lalomia: 44:15

So what are you doing? For fun, you got the Harley. You still riding that.

Brian Gottlieb: 44:18

Yeah, we got the Harley, we got the house. You know, we just built. We just we just moved into our new home a few days ago. We've been building it for two years. So here we are. I'm sitting in my cigar room right now. This is my man cave cigar room. Well, that answers question. Kind of fun, and yeah, man, that's awesome.

Chris Lalomia: 44:34

So your favorite feature of your house is the cigar room.

Brian Gottlieb: 44:37

Yeah, the cigar room Nice, All right.

Chris Lalomia: 44:39

What is a book you would recommend everybody that they need to read?

Brian Gottlieb: 44:44

Two, two books. Okay, if you want to book on personal development, it's the seven habits of highly effective people in my opinion, classic. If you want to book on strategy, it's Sun Tzu, the art of war.

Chris Lalomia: 44:55

In fact, hey, I have both of those in the book. So what I tell everybody is the seven habits I'm through three and a half Sun.

Brian Gottlieb: 45:03

Tzu the art of war.

Chris Lalomia: 45:04

That is a great one.

Brian Gottlieb: 45:05

One of his teachings you know, that which you leave behind makes your enemy stronger has to do with when you leave a battlefield. If you leave, like an arrow or food behind, the enemy comes on. They grab it. Now they're stronger because of it. In business, if you think about it, that which we leave behind makes our competitor stronger. You know the person we don't take care of, the person we don't respond to when they reach out to us, that you know. All of these missed opportunities actually make our competitor just stronger. So leave nothing behind in business. That's a great one.

Chris Lalomia: 45:38

Oh, what a great book. Yeah, two great books and Sun Tzu. I'd say it's a thin book, hard read. I actually had to buy the one saying how to basically interpret it for business. So I've got both books. I get the Sun Tzu art of war and then Sun Tzu art of war. It basically translated for business. It's so hard, good stuff, all right. What's a customer service pet peeve of yours when you're out there as the customer?

Brian Gottlieb: 46:03

Well, having just built a home, I can share with you that look, I think it's mutual. Everywhere is communication right, it's all about. It's all about. You know we can handle a problem, but just got to talk to us, you know, and the lack of communication to me is really frustrating or being transferred, you know, when you call into a place and then you put on three different trying to reach somebody and you're back and forth, how many voicemail and you know, just not getting called back. It's all communication.

Chris Lalomia: 46:34

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a, that's a big one actually, and things for me don't always go right in my business either. I know this might sound right.

Alan Wyatt: 46:41

I know, I thought it was all Champagne and Caviar. If you can, it is, and a lot.

Chris Lalomia: 46:46

And you want a Green Bay Lambo field, there we go, but but no, and I lead up to some of these really difficult conversations I have to have. If I have to get involved with something that's not going right and you realize that, like you said, communication, just just tell me it's wrong and then we configure something else.

Brian Gottlieb: 47:00

Yeah, the good news is in the service business. The interesting thing about the service business is that it's not about the secret to business, isn't about getting it right the first time. I mean you want to, but the real secret to business is getting it right the second time. It's about service recovery. It's like if you go to a restaurant and order a steak and the steak and you order it rare and it comes out, it comes out well done. You're like, hey, the steak is well done, you send it back. If it comes out rare, you're fine, but if it comes out medium and then it comes out raw and it's all over the place, now you're kind of pissed off. So it's all about service recovery and you can actually you can really create a rating fan if you're excellent at service recovery.

Chris Lalomia: 47:37

That's a great line. I agree completely on that, because in the construction world especially, things just don't always go right. It's you know again coming from the world of consulting and coming from banking, and you know you can't just throw 25 programmers or something and make this program work. You can't throw 25 people at a job. And people ask me is like, well, the expectations, what are they like in the construction world? I said they're very low. To be honest with you, most of the people expect a very low performance, so we don't have a high bar to get over. And when sometimes you don't even go over that bar, you sit there and kind of shake your head and say what happened. But again, service recovery, that is the win. That's the win in our world. And when you what I tell my guys all the time you set the expectation so we can exceed it. If you do that, that's called communication. That's right. Yeah, that's great. So give us a DIY nightmare story.

Brian Gottlieb: 48:26

Well, I'll give you a construction nightmare story, all right, and, by the way, it's my fault. Okay, when I was 17 years old, because you know, when I was 17 years old, I was just getting started in the industry, working with my hands and my I was working in a high rise. I was on the third floor of a high rise and my my job. They told me hey, we're prepping this powder room. Take everything off the walls and ceilings so we can paint it Right. So I'm in there, I'm in the hardware off and on the on the ceiling is a sprinkler head. I've never seen one before. I didn't know what it was, so I stuck my screwdriver in there and to try to unscrew it and I set the sprinkler off and I I mean, I've never seen so much water come out of anything in my life. And I'm trying to hold the water pressure back with my thumbs which, by the way, does not work and the water keeps coming in.

Brian Gottlieb: 49:11

The homeowner comes in, sees the water just flooding in our new marble floors and I said can you call somebody? She calls the maintenance person. He's not in. I get on the phone the maintenance person. He tells me how to go into the basement to shut the water off. So I have to go in the basement of this high rise. I finally figured out how to shut the water off. I come into the lobby Now the fire department is there and there's water dripping third floor through the second floor apartment, through the first, into the lobby. Oh my.

Alan Wyatt: 49:40

God yeah.

Brian Gottlieb: 49:42

Talk about how to get fired.

Chris Lalomia: 49:43

That's definitely the top five. That is at the top five, absolutely. Cause you're sitting there. Oh right, I'm like, well, I okay, I've done this. You're like trying to stop it with your hands. You're like, oh my God, it won't work. I'm like, all right, what do you have to do? I have to let the water go and I have to run away three stories down to find somewhere to shut this off, where I don't even know where the hell I'm going.

Brian Gottlieb: 50:01

That's right, that's 17.

Chris Lalomia: 50:04

You went 17 years old. Yeah, you're like, should I just walk away now?

Alan Wyatt: 50:08

Yeah.

Chris Lalomia: 50:09

That's a good one, brother. That's good Brian. This has been amazing. If you didn't pick something up and you stuck with us all the way through the whole 45 minute episode. You have learned a ton from Thunderland.

Brian Gottlieb: 50:21

Well, thank both of you. Thank both of you for the good work you do. You have such an amazing show. You understand what it takes to to have a great business. People would really benefit from listening to the two of you and following you and thank you for all you do for this industry. Really appreciate that.

Chris Lalomia: 50:37

Thank you, brian, and this has been awesome. All right, guys, go out there and make it a great day. Go up that mountain top and let's go find out what success looks like for you. We're out of here. Thank you, guys, for your time. Bye, my humble with Black Friday.