Turning 23 Years of McDonald's Franchise Ownership to an Entrepreneurial Lifestyle

Chris and Alan welcome Phil Wilkins. Chris met him when he was running a gourmet burger multi-unit franchise, and we finally got him on the show to talk about Phil’s journey and learnings along the way. Phil impacts everyone in his life, as proven by the numerous requests for his time and wisdom around leadership, purpose, and the grit it takes to make it in the world, especially in the entrepreneurial jungle. Listen to his story. Did you know our amazing voices can go beyond just the microphone? Yes, we have video! Subscribe to our YouTube channel here!

-----

GOLD NUGGETS:

(00:00) - Small business Safari With Phil Wilkins

(04:53) - Journey to Owning a McDonald’s Franchise

(17:40) - Scaling and Transitioning to Small Businesses

(23:54) - Lessons in Restaurant Business Expansion

(37:13) - Customer Service and DIY Nightmare Stories

(44:00) - Basement Flooding and Home Repair

-----

Phil’s Links:

Website | https://byaeveryday.com/ 

LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-wilkins-4290b66/ 

-----

Books Mentioned: Quiet Strength by Tony Dungy (from Chris’s Hometown of Jackson, MI)

-----

Previous guests on The Small Business Safari include Dale Cardwell, Amy Lyle, Ben Alexander, Joseph Sission, Jonathan Ellis, Brad Dell, Chris Hanks, C.T. Emerson, Chad Brown, Tracy Moore, Wayne Sherger, David Raymond, Paul Redman, Gabby Meteor, Ryan Dement, Barbara Heil Sonneck, Bryan John, Tom Defore, Rusty Clifton, Duane Johns, Jason Sleeman, Andy Suggs, Chris Michel, Jon Ostenson, Tommy Breedlove, Rocky Lalvani, Amanda Griffey, Spencer Powell, Joe Perrone, David Lupberger, Duane C. Barney, Dave Moerman, Jim Ryerson, Al Mishkoff, Scott Specker, Mike Claudio and more!

-----

If You Loved This Episode Try These!

• Attracting High-Value Clients with Irresistible Marketing Messages | Daniel Den

• Attracting the RIGHT Clients to Your Offering | Lisa McGuire

• Bark to Business! How Brady Foulk is Starting a Dog Training Business

-----

Have any questions or comments? Connect with me here!

Transcript

Phil Wilkins: 0:00

with McDonald's. You had the marketing support and those types of things. You know television and radio and here you're creating it. So you know, from a learning opportunity hands down one of the best learning opportunities that you know I could ever get translation I got my ass kicked.

Chris Lalomia: 0:17

Why does it always cost me so much damn money to learn? Oh my God, can I learn something and make a few bucks while I'm doing it? Please, just once.

Phil Wilkins: 0:26

Yeah right right.

Chris Lalomia: 0:27

But you know what? Welcome to the Small Business Safari where I help guide you to avoid those traps, pitfalls and dangers that lurk when navigating the wild world of small business ownership. I'll share those gold nuggets of information and invite guests to help accelerate your ascent to that mountaintop of success. It's a jungle out there and I want to help you traverse through the levels of owning your own business that can get you bogged down and distract you from hitting your own personal and professional goals. So strap in adventure team and let's take a ride through the safari and get you to the mountaintop. I hope you're hungry, because I'm hungry and I'm hungry to learn today. My friends, you like that.

Alan Wyatt: 1:11

You didn't know that was coming to the end.

Chris Lalomia: 1:12

No, no, kind of surprised me on that one. There you go, so Big Daddy's hungry, and if you've followed any of my socials Insta and Facebook you'll see that I have not missed a meal lately.

Alan Wyatt: 1:22

But your doctor shouldn't be listening to this podcast. Funny enough, yeah.

Chris Lalomia: 1:27

So he asked so is it high? I said, well, we call it gout light. I said that's right, he goes how's your blood pressure? I said what's it supposed to be? I said, well, I'm an overachiever, I'm a little higher than that. So we got that going for us. No, so we got that going for us. No, we got a great guest today, and so, before I introduce him, I want to tell him how I best remember him. We were here in Atlanta Everybody knows we live in the Johns Creek area and he had opened up a gourmet burger operation and he, through the chamber, said hey, come on in, and if you come in, you get a discount. And that's how I did it. So I went through and I brought my kids in there and we were eating and I was talking with him and he says, hey, what do you do, you know, handyman? And uh, he said, well, would you? Uh, how long have you had it? I said, well, I started in 2008, and this is probably 11, 12, um, right in that range.

Alan Wyatt: 2:20

So are you thoroughly disillusioned at this point?

Chris Lalomia: 2:22

or well, I was, I was there I was thoroughly getting my uh hamburger kicked in, as it were, and uh, he comes up and he takes the time you know the place is hopping and he takes the time not only to chat me with me, but he chatted me up to my kids because my kids were like he's, like you know, what your dad's doing is one of the coolest things anybody could ever do. And that started his own business and see it through, and and I was like man, that, uh, that was really cool because that is awesome. I could see my kids hearing somebody else say that for the first time, literally the first time, and they were both like, huh, I guess it is kind of hard what dad's doing, like, yeah, what he said, but it was cool and so, uh, from that we we'd stayed uh in touch and you know I've got this podcast with alan that we've been doing here and you guys have all been listening, and I've been waiting for the right time to bring bill wilkins back on and I pinged him again. He said, man, I'd love to come on.

Chris Lalomia: 3:18

So we have bill wilkins, who I met in that brief instance. But that's not the definition of who. This guy is not even even close. It is not even close. So, everybody, I hope you're hungry because you're about to get fed on how it really takes to make it happen. Phil, thanks for joining the show, my man, chris and Alan.

Phil Wilkins: 3:34

thank you, I love the intro. That was great.

Chris Lalomia: 3:40

Now we've been told sometimes we can linger a little too long on the history, I said, but in this case the history defines kind of how he got to where he is. And so, Phil, you were a McDonald's operator for over 30 years, or just short of 30?

Phil Wilkins: 3:55

23.

Chris Lalomia: 3:56

23 years. So I think the story of how you got into the McDonald's franchise system is fascinating. So could you just tell us all a little bit about how old you were, what you were doing and why, all of a sudden, you said hey, I want to be an entrepreneur and I'm going to do it like this, and oh, by the way, I'm going to make millions of dollars.

Alan Wyatt: 4:12

And you had a big pile of cash to hand them and they said, sure, right.

Phil Wilkins: 4:16

Yeah.

Chris Lalomia: 4:16

Right.

Phil Wilkins: 4:16

So in that intro we'll let you think that way. Right, am I off a little bit? Uh, quite a bit. It's not unusual, that's great. No, it's, it's super. Um, yeah, so I guess you know real quick history. I mean I I started working at procter and gamble, transitioned from there square peg round hole, then went to uh baxter health care where I was in sales for like nine years Every Christmas you know holiday season, it was like time for restructuring and I never will forget this. One year I was in my basement, just bought a house. I was probably about 25, 26 years old and I read an article in Money Magazine and it showed this guy on the cover with french fries coming down on his head and I was like man, let me read that.

Phil Wilkins: 5:09

And I read the article and I thought wow, you know I can see myself, you know, owning a business and burgers and fries is something that I understand. You know like burgers, fries and drinks, I get it.

Alan Wyatt: 5:24

I'm good with that so health care to burgers and fries doesn't seem to be kind of a natural path well, you know what, we were kind of keeping them in the industry.

Phil Wilkins: 5:34

You know I was kind of just your feet, that's awesome hey, go over to mcdonald's, order it.

Chris Lalomia: 5:45

Hey, by the way, I have this great, this great statin you can order. It's going to bring down your cholesterol, so let's keep feeding the beast baby.

Alan Wyatt: 5:53

Yeah.

Phil Wilkins: 5:53

So that's what they call the long play.

Phil Wilkins: 5:56

Yeah Right, I read that article and I started thinking like, who do I know? You know, and I never realized, like how important networking and building connections would be for me, you know, really throughout life after that, you know, and so I met a McDonald's owner who was actually in Rochester, new York. The guy's name was Herb Washington. Herb was a great mentor of mine and, uh, actually little history.

Phil Wilkins: 6:23

Herb was the world record holder at one time in the 60 yard dash and was hired by Charlie Finley as a designated, uh, base runner for the Oakland A's and won a world series ring. But anyway, herb opened up his books and showed me his books and, uh, you know, said, hey, look, there's a lot of opportunity here and whatever you do, don't let money stand in your way. And I never realized how prophetic that would be. So I finally met the McDonald's people. They thought I had money because I was introduced by Herb, and so when they asked me to complete the application, I was going through it and it had like all these different criteria, you know had leadership experience, marketing experience, willing to relocate, and must have one hundred thousand dollars of unencumbered cash.

Chris Lalomia: 7:11

Right, so check the box. Check the box, check the box.

Phil Wilkins: 7:17

Oh no, I only had about 10, you know, and I'm not talking about ten thousand dollars either talking about $10,000 either, but I applied anyway and shortly thereafter I quickly got the rejection letter back and I remember sitting around the table reading that letter and looking at my wife and saying I can't believe they don't see the fit. Now you could tell I was 26. I was young and I was stupid, right yeah, but I mean optimistic.

Alan Wyatt: 7:47

We'll say optimistic, entrepreneurial optimistic.

Phil Wilkins: 7:50

So I made a decision and I asked her. I said what do you think if I call this guy? And she said what do you have to lose? And she's absolutely right. We were already broke, you know.

Phil Wilkins: 8:02

So I picked up the phone and I called the guy and I said Harry, I said I got your letter, but I think you made a mistake. And he said no, we didn't make a mistake, you just don't have any money. And I said, well, that's not a character flaw, right, that's just a moment in time. And so at the end of the day I said, hey, listen, can I stay in touch with you? And I knew I had to create a plan to really show him the level of commitment that I had, you know, moving forward. So I began to write him a letter and I did so pretty much every month for a period of three years.

Phil Wilkins: 8:35

And it started out Harry, I'm at $10,000. This is what I had when I first applied to buy a McDonald's right, and I was mad that they rejected me. But you know, harry, I'm at 10,000. Next month, I'm going to be at 15. I'm at 15. I'm going to be at 20. I'm at 20. I'm at 25. And I tell people you know during the workshops and the presentations that I give is this if you cannot control the cashflow in your own house, how are you ever going to do it in a business? And that was really foundational Freaking gold nugget.

Alan Wyatt: 9:03

That is Yep Wow.

Phil Wilkins: 9:04

You know, that was really foundational for me and so that took three years. And then after three years they called me and they said okay, you know, you're up now to about 85, you know 95,000, we're going to start you in the program. And I thought at that point I could quit my job and and work in the restaurants and kind of learn the business. And he said, no, you're going to keep your job. There's no guarantees. You're going to work in the restaurant to learn the business and you're going to do it for free and you have to out, you know, average, at least 20 hours a week. So Monday through Friday I found myself traveling.

Phil Wilkins: 9:37

Is that normal, you know. I think I was on the remedial program, Alan, to be honest with you.

Chris Lalomia: 9:45

Looking back at it now, I think I was on the remedial program, Alan. To be honest with you, Looking back at it now, I think I had the short bus that they offered me Because you got all of that. Hey, no, you're going to keep your job and that's a 40, and, let's face it, there's no way Phil was going to work a 40-year-old.

Alan Wyatt: 9:56

I mean, that's like an old-world apprenticeship or something like that. That is mind-blowing. And I'm sitting there thinking for the three years you're saving the money. I mean, at any point were you just getting more and more obsessed with this whole idea, and I mean falling more and more in love with McDonald's every month, or was it just a spite?

Phil Wilkins: 10:18

You know, obsession is about right, because I know I read that article at least a thousand times and I will honestly tell you that I never once looked at it like, oh god, I gotta go into work tonight. It was always something where I was always excited about doing it, you know and, and I knew when that excitement left it was time to go um, but I was always excited about going into work. I was always excited about going into work. I was always excited about reading that article and to this day, even though it's 30 years plus, I can remember the details of that article. I mean this guy's, you know the article that I read. His wife's name was Brenda and she was an accounting supervisor at Atlantic Richfield and she made $35,000 a year and they generated $5 million in sales and revenue and all that kind of stuff. So I, I mean I could still remember vividly the details of that article and I read it over a thousand times easily.

Chris Lalomia: 11:13

All right. So here we are you're working, you're saving some money. Um, this is three years in. Of course, you didn't have any kids. No encumberments, right?

Phil Wilkins: 11:20

No, no, no, no, no. Our kids were starting to come at that point. You know we're beginning to build a family.

Chris Lalomia: 11:25

Yeah, hey, you take care of the kids. I'm gonna work and then I'm gonna go to this other gig for free.

Chris Lalomia: 11:30

She's like all right, cool, have fun yeah, and at that time you're 27, 28 and you're working with 17 year olds right, 16 year olds, uh, and you're going yeah, this is for me, yeah, I'm digging this, right, right, right. So, all right, so you didn't get disillusioned, you stay the path. Then they finally obviously took one of your letters and finally said man, if we don't give this guy an opportunity, I don't know what to do, but I can't get another flipping letter from this dude you wore him down well, all total, it took six years and I got my first restaurant in cincinnati.

Phil Wilkins: 12:04

Uh, you, after saving for three years, working in the stores for free for three years, then, you know, I got the first restaurant in Cincinnati, ran that for three years, then went to Lexington and ran those four for about 10, you know up, you know, yeah, we ran four until about 2010, 2011.

Alan Wyatt: 12:28

Now, when you first got that store, I mean I can only imagine how excited you were, but were you ready? I mean going from working for free.

Phil Wilkins: 12:39

Yeah, and you know what? My salary just went through the roof.

Chris Lalomia: 12:43

Not you know you salary just went through the roof, not, uh, you know you start a business I mean, I took a 70 cut and pay how many 70 cut? And pay. So you, you quit your job. You were at, uh, you were, you were in the. You were in the corporate zoo at that time, baxter, it doesn't matter who, but you're making good coin, right? You had a 401k, you had healthcare and you said no, here I go, did you just quit? And then next Monday you were in the store.

Phil Wilkins: 13:08

Yeah, cause you had to dedicate full effort. So I mean I don't mind telling your audience this, cause I think I probably wrote about it somewhere but I was making $125,000, you know, as a sales manager back, you know, back then, and uh, and my salary went from 125, basically down to 40. And you know, as an owner, and I remember calling my accountant and saying what in the hell did I do, you know? But then you know, she kind of explained to me like hey, look, you're building equity in this business. And you know that was one of the beautiful things about McDonald's, you know it was. It was a very cash flow type, oriented type business where you could build equity in those restaurants. And you know, for me to build that type of equity over a seven year period of time, I wouldn't have been able to do that in corporate America. So you know, when you're on that business side you really have to look at. You know both sides of the equation here.

Chris Lalomia: 14:07

You know not only just the money that you're you're pulling out, but hopefully the equity that you're building, you know, and what you're building for your family. Was it McDonald's or nothing? Or did you say you know? As I'm, I'm doing this. I read the article. Did you investigate any other opportunities in the in the fast food industry?

Phil Wilkins: 14:19

Um, I probably have, and if I you know, if I really would have dug deeper, I probably would look harder at Chick-fil-A. But you know, to be honest, but you know, I think for me it was really this is a proven path. You know, to me that that was the key thing. It was a proven path and a proven entity, entity and the fact that you know I could kind of see people you know who were, who were accessible, you know, accessible, and it was tangible for me so I could really relate to that, you know, and and that that was really really an influencer for me.

Chris Lalomia: 15:00

Yeah, that's, that's great. I mean no reason to look at it we talk about this quite a bit in the podcast is that sometimes you choose entrepreneurship and sometimes it chooses you. Sometimes you choose your industry and sometimes it chooses you and more often than not, somebody is choosing it for you. And in this case, phil read an article and then stayed on the path not just for three years, but six years. That's unbelievable. That's focus, that's dedication, that's what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur and then going from 125 to 40, nobody sees that. Nobody sees. Oh my God. I got a couple of kids at home, I got a wife, I got cashflow, I got a nut, I got to get covered every month and now I'm doing this. It be, it had to be tough. I mean, you had to sit there.

Phil Wilkins: 15:45

You've even said that I mean with no, I mean like whoops, I gotta go yeah, no, it'll test your faith and I never will forget I mean, I'm not trying to make the show religious today, but I I will never forget being in my basement and, uh, shortly after acquiring everything, and I had all the bills hitting at once. You know taxes, food bills, everything. And I just remember looking up at the sky down in the basement and saying you did not put me here to fail. You know, and I think sometimes that's all you have really to rely on, because everyone else is going to think your dream is crazy.

Phil Wilkins: 16:23

And you know my mom God bless her soul she thought you know she. She asked me why are you doing this to your family? You know it's hard, but you have to believe and you have to have that. You know unwavering commitment that you're going to see it through. And you're, you know we don't take L's here. We learn. You know we don't lose. We learn and, um, you know we just, we just have to to stay focused and keep moving forward.

Chris Lalomia: 16:49

As you grew the business, you went from one you mentioned. You went to multiple stores. What was that next hardest transition for you after you had one under your belt? Was it the second one, or was it the fourth one?

Phil Wilkins: 17:00

Yeah, going from three to four, I realized I need to bring in some expertise, you know, to just take it to a higher level. And I think you know that's the tough part. You know, like as a business owner and, chris, I'm sure you know you've gone through this where you begin to scale and you're like, okay, you know how do I get to the next level and how do I find that person that can really help me get to the next level? And I was very fortunate to have had a team and they realized, hey, you know what this is what you do. Well, you know you're out in the community, you're a cheerleader. We need you to do that. You know we need you.

Phil Wilkins: 17:40

I knew what I wanted my restaurants to feel like every single day. I knew what I wanted my restaurants to feel like every single day, to get there every single day, to be mundane and operational. That wasn't my expertise, but I brought someone in who was that way and he was excellent, you know, with the administrative things so that I could really focus on building relationships, you know, in the community, talking to Chris's kids and getting him, you know, and and their kids to come back to the restaurants and and being that good corporate steward, and and uh that that was just a very, you know, important role for me. And and uh, it worked out really, really well.

Chris Lalomia: 19:42

So the big point to take away from that is in the beginning you have to be everything right, Because you can't afford not to. I mean, you have 125 to 40. Oh, I'm going to go hire an operations manager. I'm going to hire a business manager. I'm going to hire three other managers who are going to cover shifts. No, you're doing it all. And then that's why I asked that question, because as we scale, it's hard, especially when you're running up that mountain and just going, going, going, going, going. It's to sit back and go. Ok, I need help. And where do I need the most help? And how do I identify where I need the most help? Because that's also hard, because, as entrepreneurs, a lot of us have a lot of blind spots, right?

Phil Wilkins: 20:18

Well, you know what, and in my role today and I don't mean to deviate, but I do have a bad case of ADHD but but I do have a bad case of ADHD, but in my role today, I do work with a lot of entrepreneurs and especially, you know, transportation providers, and one of the things that I talk to them about is when it's time to scale, there's really five things that we have to kind of pay attention to in my opinion and I acronymed it and called it ropes and that is resources, operations, people, execution and systems.

Phil Wilkins: 20:46

Right, those are the five things that, in my opinion, you have to take inventory of, and one of those, you know, with resources, one of the key things that we have to take, you know, really just kind of be mindful of, is really where we are mentally and physically capable of growing and scaling, because so often you know that's just an extra effort, an extra level of commitment that you have to like ratchet up, and if you're not in great physical and mental condition, then you know what you might want to pump the brakes a little bit.

Alan Wyatt: 21:18

And then you're saying hey, Chris, just stick to one location. Is that what you're saying?

Chris Lalomia: 21:22

Too late, I'm already in two, but I'll drink to that as he takes a drink. Is that what you're?

Phil Wilkins: 21:25

saying Too late. I'm already in two but I'll drink to that Too late.

Chris Lalomia: 21:28

As he takes a drink, the body's dragging, my friends, the body is dragging.

Alan Wyatt: 21:36

You know, nobody's ever said that before, because usually when you think about scaling it's just cash flow.

Phil Wilkins: 21:39

But no, I mean, you know, I truly believe in that. And it's so weird, like every time that I try to take on a new venture, I find myself getting in the best condition that I can be in, physically and mentally. You know, first because I, I guess, just because of what I've gone through, I just anticipate the lift being extraordinarily hard.

Chris Lalomia: 22:04

That's a great way to put it to the lift. I mean, if you, if you've ever lifted weights or done work, you know to get to those heavy lifts, uh, to get there and to build yourself up, it's hard and you gotta get yourself ready for it and it just doesn't. You just don't walk up to the bar and go yep, here we go, throw on five, six plates and I'm just going to yank the sucker at new. Uh, it doesn't work like that. And then to do those incrementals, that's I think that's the hard part, especially it's seeing it. And uh, and you said you help people through it, through the ropes program, and and what you do when you help people. Do they come to you and say that or do you see people and reach out to them?

Phil Wilkins: 22:38

well, a little bit of both. I mean right now, I guess, to kind of take you through the career piece. I was in mcdonald's for 23. We got up to eight restaurants, $20 million. We retired, we exited out. I was trying to figure out what to do.

Phil Wilkins: 22:52

During that time period I also had a speaking business when I was with McDonald's and was doing a lot of consulting work with financial advisors and helping them understand how to prospect business owners and those kinds of things, and I was like, what do I do next?

Phil Wilkins: 23:07

You know, and I took some time off and I had a friend who was working at this company which is called Motive Care and he was the COO at the time, and he was like, hey, look, I think I've got a role for you, and you know, they brought me in as a senior vice president, reporting to the CEO and on the executive leadership team. But really what I'm doing today is working with our transportation partners, and we have about 3,500 of them around the country small business owners that provide rides for people who are on Medicaid and Medicare, who need to get to their doctor's appointments and those types of things, and so for me it's very fulfilling work because I had, you know, a lot of family members that could have benefited from a service like this, and so I help those small business owners. Now, really, you know, understand when is the appropriate time to grow and scale. Let's not get over your skis, let's be a little comfortable, you know. Let's make sure that we're transitioning the right way, we're hitting our standards. You know, we have systems in place so that we can follow up in those kinds of things.

Phil Wilkins: 24:13

So what I'll do right now, chris, is if someone's out you know external, and they want to reach out to me, great, but primarily with if I'm working with them with this business. You know it's primarily internally I'll work with them, but sure, I'm open and receptive to people who might want some help.

Chris Lalomia: 24:36

No, that's great what you're doing now. I didn't. So there you go. Motive care Wow, talk about a fulfilling job right there. But I got to go back to McDonald's, which is equally filling I don't know about that a horrible. All right, let's go. So how I met you was not in the mcdonald's franchise. I met you in a gourmet burger when the gourmet burger craze was kind of going big, and you, you got down here. So tell me a little bit more about how you were. Let's, let's talk about this. So you had your eight, uh, or four, or how many restaurants you had at the time and you decided to go gourmet burger route. Why did you think that was going to be the right way to go?

Phil Wilkins: 25:10

Well, I think it was a matter of, you know, being young and wanting to grow and scale and, you know, really kind of being frustrated. And I will say, you know, my father used to say to me all the time, hey, Phil, you need to be patient. And I never really got what he meant, you know, and I think if there's one you know area where it's like man, I learned from him on that day, you know, the one thing I probably should have done is just kind of stayed put, you know, with with where I was in McDonald's and not made the move to Smashburger. But at the same time, I had an opportunity to become an area developer down here and had the potential to open 20 plus restaurants. And I thought, you know what, if I'm going to take a chance, now's the time. You know, it's a good time to sell. I sold at a great time, you know, did really well and opened up five stores here and shortly after opening I realized this dog can't hunt the way I think it can, you know, I think it should, and so I, you know, basically approached the leadership team and said I'm not going to invest any more money at it, and we had to negotiate and haggle a little bit, but we got out of it.

Phil Wilkins: 26:25

And then, shortly thereafter, I was just talking to the president of McDonald's USA. She was a great friend, jan Fields, a lover to death, and out of the blue she was like when are you coming back? And I thought, are you kidding me? And she said no, she's like I want you to come back. She's like you were good at what you did. Why, you know, why wouldn't you come back? And so once she said that it was just time to make the move, you know, it was like let's, let's go back.

Chris Lalomia: 26:55

Well, good on Jan for bringing you back, because most people would not do that, right? You just told McDonald's eh, screw you. I know you're the best operator in the fast food industry in the hamburger space. I'm going to go something else, and when she says, hey, you can come back, whoa.

Phil Wilkins: 27:11

Obviously, you didn't burn a bridge. You did the right thing, I think, Chris. One of the things I did do before I left is I called Jan directly and I told her hey, listen, I love the brand, but at the end of the day, how do I grow? You know, because the market was so saturated with operators and I did not see a path forward for growth. And she actually encouraged me to take the opportunity.

Phil Wilkins: 27:42

And the people that were heading up that company, that Smashburger at the time, had McDonald's ties. So it wasn't like, hey, you know what, screw you, I'm out, you know, whatever. I mean. That might be the perception that I think some people probably had within McDonald's, but that was furthest from the truth. I always loved McDonald's, always wanted to stay. I just couldn't find a path forward and I tried, believe me. I mean, I looked at opportunities down in Dallas, I looked at opportunities down in Florida, you know, to see how can we grow and scale here, and we just couldn't figure it out. So it wasn't a matter of and I've never burned a bridge anywhere.

Chris Lalomia: 28:23

Well, maybe, but it wasn't a matter of well, there was that one, but uh, well, no, his legs needed to come out. You know what I'm saying.

Phil Wilkins: 28:33

I mean, you know, he's hobbled a little bit, he's just yeah, you know that that that one concept in atlanta yeah, I just was like yeah, that's you know, uh, but I think we'll go ahead well now.

Alan Wyatt: 28:44

I just find it so fascinating. You're very successful, kind of, in the same business burgers you've got the gourmet burger and then you've got the one everybody grew up on, and you would think it would just be a simple transition to the, but it is is is it the fact that there isn't the, the margins or the appetite for that gourmet side of things, or is it truly a function of when you're with McDonald's, you're with such a well-oiled process you just can't fail, whereas the other side it's a newer entity and even though they had McDonald's ties, you didn't have the I don't know the buying power and the economies of scale and all of that stuff.

Phil Wilkins: 29:31

Yeah, and even the name recognition. I mean, you know we, we we thoroughly, you know, went through, vetted the process, went through training, looked at the demographics. I mean I was in Alpharetta and Johns Creek. Clearly the demographics supported you know, a burger location like that. But at the same time it's a matter of, hey, you know, when you think about Atlanta, you had Farm Burger, you had BurgerFi, you had, you know, all the different gourmet burgers that places that you can think of, that places that you can think of. And then it's a matter of how do you break through the clutter, you know, and how do you grow and scale and and and get through that clutter? So it was definitely different. Uh, you know where, with mcdonald's, you had the marketing support and those types of things. You know television and radio and here you're creating it. So, you know, from a learning opportunity, hands down, one of the best learning opportunities that you know I could ever get translation. I got my ass kicked why?

Chris Lalomia: 30:34

does it always cost me so much damn money to learn? Oh my god, can I learn something and make a few bucks while I'm doing it?

Phil Wilkins: 30:42

please, just once yeah, right, right, but you know what that was really the difference, you know. And it was also something where you know McDonald's is very habitual, especially at breakfast, I guarantee you. You go to a fast food restaurant McDonald's, chick-fil-a and you get a chicken biscuit and a sweet tea, say, at Chick-fil-A. You're going to be there the next morning, the following morning, on your way to work. You're going to find excuses, you know, cause they know how to get you in and out and you just get into that, that routine. When you have a $20 gourmet burger, that's a little different routine. You know, you, you, you really have to make that customer experience great. You have to take care of that customer, you have to break through, you know, and you're continually filling that funnel of new customers and new people and new trials, and so it was a different business.

Chris Lalomia: 31:43

All right, again, you learn so much, and that's the nuance. I I think that I just took away number one the restaurant business is so flipping hard, uh, and the fact that you were successful at it not just once, but twice. You got to go back to it. Was he successful? Well, let's go back to those first six years, right? Uh, hey, I'd like to join. Yeah, well, we like that, except you don't have no money. All right, well, let me, let me show you how I'm going to get there. And then you exited and you tried another one. The other thing you did and this is the one thing we just we talk about quite a bit here. I think every entrepreneur lasts one year too long in their business before they close it before they go.

Phil Wilkins: 32:32

You know what this dog doesn't hunt to use your line.

Chris Lalomia: 32:33

How did you, how were you able to see through it so quickly? Or do you think you were behind and you said man, I should have shut this down earlier.

Phil Wilkins: 32:37

Well, you know, yeah, I was behind. I probably never should have left, you know. But I, you know, I agree, I think, you know, you, you you always want to see like, okay, can I get another dollar? What do I need to do to kind of clean it up, to make the most, et cetera, et cetera. Um, for that one it just felt like, you know, it started off and then it it kind of settled and I just it just didn't feel right, you know, and so like, literally probably after six months I was ready, you know, I was like, nah, this isn't, I'm not willing to do that. So I think that was a blessing, you know, from my perspective, where I could pretty much quickly see that this was a problem. You know, we're not to invest much more in this.

Chris Lalomia: 33:30

All right, so you go back to mcdonald's uh, jam brings you back you. You build it up to eight stores and then you exit again. Yeah, um, and what was that exit like there? Was that a sellout to somebody outside of the institution? How does it work?

Phil Wilkins: 33:45

talk to us a little bit about no, I mean, typically, you know you have options where you can sell between owners or you could sell back to McDonald's. For me it was time, you know it was, it was, it was just I'd had enough, I was tired. I was tired, yeah, and you know, when you get to, I guess one of the things that I could really talk to your audience about, bigger is not always better, you know. Sometimes it's just more work, and when it stops and I think I told you guys earlier, you know I never looked at McDonald's as not being enjoyable and fun and when it no longer became that way, it was time to go. You know, and I think when it's your time to go, the universe will tell you. It's your time to go, and I really believe that. Chris and and and Alan and and I, I have the worst stories and my last four months were incredible.

Phil Wilkins: 34:49

So we were trying to get out even before COVID. Then COVID hit Overnight our business dropped 35%. So that's number one. Number two we had a 10-foot wide by 30-foot deep sinkhole at our largest restaurant. There was a pipe that was buried, that no one forgot, that no one remembered, and it created a void and it collapsed. And so you know, tarps and tractors and those kinds of things aren't real good for business, right? So that happened. Then I had a tornado at my second busiest restaurant Then I had. I was down to like two weeks away from closing. I had a fight that on my parking lot that went on world star. And then I had a manager who had a um, a uh, um, kind of uh. He liked to make adult movies and posted on an adult site.

Alan Wyatt: 35:44

So let's just say, he didn't film one in your store, did he?

Phil Wilkins: 35:50

we'll leave it at that.

Alan Wyatt: 35:50

We're not gonna go here I'm, I'm actually guys.

Chris Lalomia: 35:55

I'm not muted right now. I actually just lost it. Hey, phil, how's your day going? Uh, good, no, not really. Oh my god, if you wonder if the universe is talking to you, I'm talking sinkholes, tornadoes, adult movies, fights that go viral. I mean, name a couple more things. You, what else you want to do to me? Huh?

Phil Wilkins: 36:14

oh, we could have stories. I mean, we could have story day, oh, oh me, so it was afterwards right. I'm sitting there and I'm like I don't know what I want to do and I still think I have ptsd from it all, because I've kind of thought like maybe I want to get back into it. I'm like, no, I I don't forget.

Chris Lalomia: 36:37

yeah, hey, the next time you think that thought, uh, call one of us and we'll just remind you of tornadoes, sinkholes, movies and fights that go viral. Oh you know what, actually, I'm doing?

Chris Lalomia: 36:48

all right, I think I'll just do some speaking and help people get to their Medicare and Medicaid appointments, which is much more fulfilling. Bill, this has been awesome man. Thank you for coming on. How can people reach you and follow you, because you're still a great follow? I know you're doing a lot internally, but how would you want people to follow you and find out more about you?

Phil Wilkins: 37:08

Yeah, so we're in the process right now of creating our website and it's byaeverydaycom, and that's a whole story in and of itself, byaeverydaycom, and we're building out a marketing and speaking business again. So we're definitely going to go that route and help companies connect to their ideal clients and help business owners create legacies. So that's that's one of the great ways of connecting with me. The other way is is if they're interested in, you know, exploring non-emergency medical transportation, I'm fine with that. That email is philwilkins at motivecarecom, or they can find me on LinkedIn or Instagram or even TikTok.

Chris Lalomia: 38:02

I like it TikTok. That's now. We're talking my language. Phil, we can't let you get out of here without talking about our favorite four questions. First one what is a book you would recommend for everyone to read?

Phil Wilkins: 38:16

There's really two for me that I really enjoyed.

Chris Lalomia: 38:19

That kind of were like hang on, wait a minute, Let me let me count. Yeah, Okay, We'll allow two. Can I? Can I do?

Phil Wilkins: 38:25

can I do two?

Alan Wyatt: 38:26

Okay.

Phil Wilkins: 38:28

Quiet strength by Tony John G. I love that book. He's just a great. That is a great round of dude.

Chris Lalomia: 38:33

It's my homeboy from Jackson, michigan. Again, there you go, baby.

Phil Wilkins: 38:36

Oh, he is okay tony dungy's book quiet strength and then, uh, rich dad, poor dad.

Chris Lalomia: 38:42

For me was life change nice, I'm glad you brought up tony dungy, yeah very good book. Yeah, he was all. We all from my hometown we're all like, yeah, man, we're gonna go to the league. Tony did um. Well, how come you didn't, chris? Uh, well, I um slower. Uh, my hands were like stone. Um, I was undersized, um, but other than that I could have been Tony.

Alan Wyatt: 39:06

Right? Well, he's one of those people who you, you just know is a good man. Yeah, and and he's living proof that you can be a good person and succeed in life a good person and succeed in life.

Chris Lalomia: 39:23

Yeah, and only got it, only got a chance to meet him once. But, uh, the people who lived across the street from me were uh, there was two retired teachers at the time, or, and they weren't retired, they were still teaching and tony used to get uh tutored by them and would you'd see him, you know. But at the time when you saw him, you're like, oh my god, he, he. But he's tony dungy, because he went to michigan, went to minnesota and yes, he is all that in a bag of chips, man, he is. Everything you see is what you get. Yeah, that's awesome, all right. Second one uh, I'm just so excited about that. What's the favorite feature of your current home?

Phil Wilkins: 39:54

I think, uh, my basement and uh, the um, the back patio and really just the wood, I mean I, I love backyards, you know, in in the woods we've got, you know, wooded backyards. I love it here in woodstock, uh, but uh, the patio is is really cool and I like the basement. You know the brick walls and that kind of stuff.

Chris Lalomia: 40:18

That's why I was specific about your current home, because we did talk to you about one of your homes that used to have the what? The 45 foot tree with the Christmas topper that only could get put on by a crane. That would have to go in the middle of the room, no, or I had to have a unique way to put that on. So love that idea. That was good.

Phil Wilkins: 40:36

It's not far from the truth, but, yes, we definitely utilize your service.

Alan Wyatt: 40:39

as a matter of fact, Could you have ever imagined, when you were writing three years of letters to McDonald's, that someday I'm going to have a 20 foot Christmas tree in my house that I have to pay people to lift with a crane?

Phil Wilkins: 40:52

Yes.

Alan Wyatt: 40:53

Really.

Phil Wilkins: 40:53

That was part of the dream.

Chris Lalomia: 40:55

Right, let's go, baby, have a drink. Stick to it. We're definitely going to end on that one because that was good I mean not ending, but we got to keep going. Uh, because you've seen a lot of customer service. You've seen a lot of bad customer service, but when you're out there as a customer today, what is a customer service pet peeve of yours?

Phil Wilkins: 41:15

well, Well.

Alan Wyatt: 41:23

I can tell he's like. Which one should I pick?

Phil Wilkins: 41:25

I know because in the McDonald's industry right I can walk across any parking lot, in any restaurant and look at the parking lot and the windows and kind of tell you the experience that we're going to have. Because that's a reflection of the owner and the leadership standards you know that is so funny.

Chris Lalomia: 41:42

You use that one because, uh, obviously, the um, all right now, the founder movie was a little slanted uh, based on me having read the book and seeing the movie. But uh, I've used that same image and video of talking about why we have to do things the same way. When we go into people's houses you can't say, well, they like me, uh, better, because I did something else. And the one I use is when, uh, the the video segment in the movie was he went up to a franchisee that was running and first getting started. He walked up wrappers everywhere, kids hanging out, people eating chicken sandwiches, lettuce and stuff, everything's falling out and he knew before he got in there that that thing was being completely mismanaged right.

Phil Wilkins: 42:22

Yeah, yeah, that's a great line. You can tell I never saw the movie. I never watched the movie, which is weird. How?

Alan Wyatt: 42:30

can that be?

Phil Wilkins: 42:32

I read the book, I lived it every day. I pretty much knew.

Chris Lalomia: 42:38

I'd be interested if you ever do your take. But I felt like the book a little bit, I think probably more accurate portrayal of how it all went down. The movie, you know, obviously got to sensationalize it. You got to have a protagonist and antagonist you got to put together there's got to be strife and that's what they showed a little bit more than I think really happened, but it doesn't matter. I thought Michael Keaton did.

Phil Wilkins: 43:00

As a matter of fact, I talked to his nephew, connected with me through LinkedIn and so that was pretty cool, you know, talking to Ray Kroc's nephew and getting the insight you know with him and he was, you know, grew up in indiana and stuff like that and and I guess ray used to to visit the family and everything. But uh, it's pretty cool to to talk to him directly and kind of get some insight from him.

Chris Lalomia: 43:31

that's awesome, all right. Last one I'm in the renovation business. I'm in the home repair business, but I love diy nightmare stories business.

Phil Wilkins: 43:40

I'm in the home repair business, but I love DIY nightmare stories. What do you got for us? Well, I'm not, I'm not a real big DIY guy, um, but I will tell you about a time when I moved into the house in the manor, uh and I and I'm trying to figure out where would it fit, but we had an evacuator pump in the basement. You know that, I guess, when you flush the toilet it takes the stuff and shoots it out. So I come home one day. We had a couple toilets down there, you know a couple bathrooms, and the one would not flush. And the guy you know I'm new, I'm literally brand new to the city. So I call our contractor. Hey, give me a plumber. This guy comes over to your point chris, doesn't have great standards, you could just kind of tell I'm like I like where this is heading, by the way.

Phil Wilkins: 44:32

No, you don't it was not pretty um so poop emoji, everybody hold it.

Phil Wilkins: 44:41

He starts saying, well, the toilet's bad or something like that, and I'm like I don't know, and so the lack of DIY, the lack of knowledge there really hurt me, and especially with the evacuator pump. So he disconnects one toilet and moves it and tries it out, and disconnects another one and tries that, can't figure it out. Finally figures out oh, it's the evacuator pump. Whatever Puts this little rubber sleeve on this thing in between these pipes and this little silver clamp that you know looks like it should be on a bicycle bracket or something, and thinks that's going to hold it. And when you flush the toilet that the, the tension in that pipe vibrates.

Phil Wilkins: 45:25

You know where I'm headed right, yeah so I walk downstairs one morning and the whole basement bedroom is flooded and I just go into fix it mode. You know where I'm like, grabbing my gloves. Uh, go to Home Depot, grab all the Clorox that I can buy, the X-Acto knives, ripping up carpet, throwing it out. And you know, the insurance company came and they were like who cleaned all this? And I'm like I did. I'm not sitting around with raw sewage in my basement for all these days. You know and you can't.

Phil Wilkins: 46:05

You can't smell this through the podcast, people, but just imagine what we're thinking about and it smells just like that yeah, turn your fan on man yeah you know I mean, and that was an expensive you house to repair and it was like a good 10 grand, you know so plus so insurance wasn't real happy with me.

Chris Lalomia: 46:26

Bill, I love that story. Thank you for sharing that one. Hey, everybody, thanks for hanging around with us and getting here all the way to the end. If you're to the end of your drive, you're picking us up on the second spot. Maybe you're doing a walk.

Alan Wyatt: 46:43

Maybe you're doing a walk, maybe you're doing, maybe you're doing some lifting with, because this is because you're getting ready, because you know, anytime you take a new venture you got to get yourself mentally and physically in better shape, chris 100.

Chris Lalomia: 46:47

You've got to get yourself in physically and mentally better shape or I'll drink to that. No guys, if hey, if you to learn something. I told you were going to be hungry because you're going to learn something. I learned a lot, you learned a lot, we all learn lot BYA everydaycom. Phil Wilkins made it happen. Thank you, phil, for showing up and we're going to get going, we're out of here Go make some money. Thanks Phil, thanks guys Appreciate you.