When No Contact With Your Mother Is The Healthiest Option, Bethany Webster

You were the responsible one. The capable one. The one who held things together when no one else could. And underneath all of it — a quiet, relentless feeling that no matter what you did, it was never quite enough.

If that lands somewhere, this conversation is for you.

In this episode — Part 2 of the Healing the Mother Wound series — I'm joined again by Bethany Webster, writer, transformational coach and one of the most important voices in the mother wound space. We go deep into the pattern of the parentified daughter: what it is, how it shows up in adult women, and what it actually takes to heal it.

We explore:

— What a parentified daughter is: when the mother-daughter relationship is turned upside down, and the daughter becomes the mirror, the safe place, and the emotional caretaker for her own mother — losing her childhood in the process

— How this pattern shows up in adult women: low self-esteem, a background sense of shame, the sense that you have no value unless you're giving to others, self-care that feels impossible or selfish, high achievement that never quite feels like enough — and the burnout that eventually follows

— Three steps toward healing: seeing through the illusion that being the good girl will finally get you the love you needed; practising taking up space and having needs; and grieving — including feeling the healthy anger at having been used as a child to meet an adult's emotional needs

— Working with negative thoughts: where they came from, why they don't actually belong to us, and how to set a boundary with them the same way we'd set a boundary with a person

— Building psychological safety from the inside: the re-mothering work that allows the inner child to feel all her emotions — including the ones she had to split off from as a child — and what becomes possible when that safety is built

— A practical exercise for working with triggers: how to bring a current caretaking impulse back to the original wound, feel what's underneath, and then return to the present with a genuinely empowering choice

— Self-mothering that actually makes a difference: what you wished your mother did for you as a little girl and how to do it for yourself now; giving yourself free time to follow your deep rhythms; body-centred structure; and dialoguing with your inner child — the relationship Bethany calls the one that changes the game

— On receiving: why so many of us can't do it, what the resistance is really about, and why receiving is a skill we have to practise — including in the smallest, simplest moments

And Bethany closes with something I keep returning to: the things sometimes that we fear the most have already happened. As a parentified daughter, it only gets better. It is a journey of receiving, a journey of abundance. A blissful, joyous coming home, with each layer.

Life gets better.

This is Part 2. Find Part 1 — Healing the Mother Wound with Bethany Webster — wherever you listen.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hello and a very warm welcome to the Sacred Womb Podcast, where we talk about all things to do with befriending our menstrual cycle, deeply healing both our feminine and masculine aspects, and how we can indeed utilize our cyclical nature as a natural spiritual pathway that's encoded within our bodies. I'm your host, Melanie Swan, and you can also go to thesacredwomb.com for more information and loads of fantastic free resources. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Sacred Womb Podcast. I've got a massive treat for us today. Bethany Webster is back on the podcast talking about when no contact with our mother is the healthiest option. I love Bethany's work. She talks about things in the mother wound to do with the mother wound, about healing the mother wound. That you know, this work isn't done by anybody else that I know of, uh, and it's fantastic what she does, and and she's got a course, and I know a lot of women are really healing from that. So I'm really happy to have Bethany back on. Uh, if you've not listened to her previous two episodes, go back and listen to them because they form a foundation for this one. Uh, the first one is What is the mother wound? And the second episode is on the parentified daughter. So if you've not listened to them, I've put the link in the show notes for you so you can go back. They're really popular episodes in this podcast, and I know a lot of women have got a lot of uh juicy and helpful information from them. So anyway, I'm very happy Bethany is back with us and I've specifically asked her to talk about this uh particular topic so that we can get this podcast out around the holiday season. It's not all of us want to spend time with our families and it's sometimes it's just not the healthiest choice. Sometimes the healthiest choice really is to have no contact, and that might seem scary and it's not talked about very much, so I thought we'd get that blog post brought to life, and Bethany uh really does that for us. So anyway, without further ado, here's Bethany, and uh I'll see you the other side. Welcome back, Bethany.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Thank you, Melanie. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Okie dokie, let's get started with this one then. So today we're talking about your article, Navigating No Contact When Estrangement from Your Mother is the healthiest choice. A juicy one for the holidays, hey? Yes, absolutely. So I'll start off with how you start the article and let you go from there. So the decision to go no contact with a family member is a deeply personal one. Over to you.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yes, yes. Um yeah, the decision to um go no contact is for many people a long journey precedes that uh decision. Um, you know, as children, we are, you know, built to connect with our parents, with our mothers, especially. And so for those of us that myself included that have had to make that really difficult choice, it can be a long journey of trying, you know, trying to make it work, trying to um, you know, explain, persuade, you know, create a connection. And uh there's a lot of things in our culture that say, as women, we have to make it work. You know, relationships are our purview and we have to accommodate and we have to, you know, uh make that work, make relationships work. And also at the same time, our culture tells us that women, you know, in our families are the keepers of secrets. We are the ones that are supposed to be silent about abuse or about neglect, we are supposed to suppress, keep the peace. And many of us do this in many different ways. Like we can become the good girl, which is a pattern that I had, or we can become the rebel, or we can, you know, there's a lot of different ways we can cope with that. But, you know, we start out with this desire to connect with our families, and it can be one of the hardest things ever. And it was the hardest thing for me ever, I would say, to make that decision to go no contact. And the way it happened for me, and I think the way it happens for many people, is that something happens. There's a there's you know, it starts out with dysfunction and abuse that has a cost, and you start to become more aware of the cost of these dysfunctional interactions with family members and with your mother. And the more healed you become, it's like the more intolerable, the more uh awful it is to have these interactions. And you begin to see how, you know, it's easy to talk about these kind of things with people who aren't our mothers or our family members, but when you start to see how our mothers or family members are invested in not understanding us, invested in seeing us as less than, you know, some of these passing down some really dysfunctional abusive situations, and how they're not gonna change. So it's like there's a crossroads where many come to where it's like, well, it's me or them. Like, am I gonna spend the rest of my life enduring this abuse and trauma, or am I gonna choose myself? And it, you know, it's not true for everyone. Some mothers can change, some can grow, but for many um mothers late in life, it's not gonna happen. It's it's not, you know, it takes two to make a respectful relationship. So, in some ways, I think women who go through this situation actually it's it can be the hardest thing and it can be the most empowering thing. It can be the culmination of, you know, really an action of self-love. You know, it can be one of the most empowering things in your life when you realize that you have so much self-worth and you're so healthy that your family system can't accommodate you in an empowered state. That's how I saw it, is that you know, families are kind of like systems and they seek equilibrium. They seek equilibrium and stasis. So when someone in the family becomes uh, you know, heals themselves, gets support, gets awarenesses that other people in the family don't, they can become an outsider. They can become harder to fit in the family. And some people, you know, are like, what's wrong with me? Everyone else, you know, in my family seems to be okay with this, but I'm not. Well, sometimes it's because you're the healthiest person in the room. You're the healthiest person there. So, but over time, as you start to get more confidence, more support, more tools, um, it starts to become intolerable to be in that place. And so it's a process, you know, it's a process of getting there. And support is so important. Um because the truth is you don't have to tolerate abuse from anyone, even your mother, even your anyone else in your family. You don't have to tolerate that. And I think there's something about right now, uh, culturally, that we are getting that. You know, previous generations used to think, well, being keeping the family together is the most important thing, you know, staying together, taking the high road, shoving all this abusive behavior under the rug, whether it was addictions, domestic violence, child abuse, you name it, generations of people have thought, well, that we don't talk about that. And if we don't talk about it, it goes away. Well, where's a way? There's no away, right? So I think we are lucky in the sense that we're alive right now at a time when people are seeing through that illusion of suppression. You know, the thing in my family was kind of like suppress it and move on. You know, like something happens and it's not working out, just move on. Like, can you forget it? And the thing is, the more self-worth you have, the more you cannot forget it. You know, it's not possible. And that's a sign of growth. And that's something I want people to hear today. That if you are in a position of needing to estrange yourself or create distance for however long or even in a final way, whatever the case may be, it can be a real sign of health. It can be a sign of, you know, being at a certain point in your journey where you're no longer willing to tolerate that stuff. Um so I really believe I have a real place in my heart for women who have to make this choice, and I have a real empathy for how hard it is to get here. And and also what a true opportunity for empowerment that it can be as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Absolutely. It certainly was for me. I'm in the same position. Really?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Are you?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

So you're talking about this this it come it comes a point where just a decision uh comes from within. It's not that I made the decision or thought about it. It just came. Like, I do not have to do this anymore. I this person is is not changing. And the biggest relief I got, my mum actually great in some ways, she gave me the opportunity. She said, Well, you either shut up or bug her off. Wow. And I and I said, Well I'll bug her off and I put the phone down. It was great, she gave me the perfect opportunity, and that was it. And I and I the biggest thing I got was I'm alright. Do you know what? I'm grieving, but I'm alright. And that was so fantastic to realise. Like I'm not four, I'm not six, I'm not eleven standing at the top of my drive. Shit, I'm an adult. Oh yeah, holy shit, I'm an adult. And then I started to have much more fun actually.

unknown 11:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

It was very, very freeing, but just that it was like it was a split-second decision. Either shut up about this, stop challenging me, or go away. And in one breath, I feel like I empowered myself. It it was fantastic. It was fantastic. I can get the feeling of it now talking to you, like But um, it was great for me, but what I found was my friends were challenged by that, just my action of empowerment, and uh I would get questions, but she's your mum. And it was only triggering their fear, and I had enough awareness to be okay with that and talk to them about it, and they we kind of worked through it, we fumbled through it. Um But I just wondered if you could talk about a little about kind of coping with um the challenges that come often from those closest to us when we do make that really freaking tough decision to choose our authenticity over our connection with our mums.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

And yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

If you've got any if you've got any insight and tips, that would be great.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I'm happy to. Yeah, I have so many insights and tips. Um, this is a really important subject. I'm really glad we're talking about it. Um people around you will be triggered for sure. This is still taboo, you know. Um people still elevate our moms to kind of what our culture does, which is like moms are next to God, you know, they can never be questioned, they are always right, or the other side, which is our moms get blamed for everything and they get disrespected and they struggle and they're unacknowledged, you know. So there's these two extremes. We can't, there's no place for us as women to deal with our authentic feelings with our moms. And so there's blame either way. You're either like you're not respecting your mom or you're like blaming her like everyone else, you know, there, and so it's normal. The thing is, though, because this is so common, you got to find your people who do get it, even if it's one person, you know, and limit your contact with those who are shaming, who are questioning, because really all that shaming and questioning is their stuff. It's their own kind of mother wound stuff happening. Um, so it is gonna trigger people, you know, your decision. And I really see that as an opportunity to really, you know, kind of put your roots in the ground and really be like, no, this is for me. This is my choice. And this is, you know, those people don't know your situation, you know, even as close as they might be, they don't know the inner workings of your dynamic. So, really, I think it's an opportunity to really stand with yourself, even when people don't get it, because there's a certain kind of delicious freedom in that. And get support from people who do get it on your rough days, you know, find people who get it and who can um reflect that back to you. Um, one of the things I did for one of my clients that um really helped her with her decision was she created um, so she created a folder with a lot of evidence of why this was the best decision for her. And she would go back to that when she had rough days. And you will have rough days, you know. Um so, for example, one day she was telling me that she was starting to feel self-doubt, like maybe I didn't give them a chance. You know, it had been a while, it had been like six months, and she's like, maybe they've changed. You know, it's kind of like the little girl inside of her was like, um, maybe there's a chance again, you know, because she was feeling better, she was feeling stronger as a result of the distance, but there was still a little bit of hope that kind of popped up. Um, but then she came across, she was saying she came across in one of her emails, this email her mother had sent her um like a year past, a year before, and it was awful. I mean, it was the most toxic in for you know, toxic email she'd ever seen. And she was like, whoa, you know, she hadn't looked at it in like a year and she was like, oh my God, that is so awful. It really just brought, it was a mirror for what had happened. So it that helped her. So she printed out the email and she put it in, you know, I said put it in the uh folder so that you can really look at that, look at that regularly and affirm, you know, make a list of all the reasons why this is the best decision for you, why this is an act of self-love, why you don't deserve to be treated that way. Um, remind yourself of all the drama and all the, you know, the costs of what you went through. Um, and put that all in one place. And and that seemed to really help her kind of create that new groove in her life where she was like, Yeah, this is who I am now. This is this is actually a place where I can have deep respect for myself and my integrity.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah. You know? And uh so that's something that can help as well. Um, I wanted to mention something else. Um, and this is something that I've seen on my journey that the grieving doesn't necessarily end, you know. So there's gonna be times when you're like maybe around the holidays, you know, maybe around your birthday. Um, for me, it happens um whenever I make a new milestone. So, like, um if I just blast through a goal and it's just like, oh my God, this is so great, you know, it's awesome on one level, but then my inner child is also like, but there's no one here to share it with, you know, and my family. So there's always a predictable kind of drop. And I know it comes, I know it's coming. And so over time I've learned to anticipate it and um kind of celebrate myself in a new way that I never my my family was never capable of celebrating and kind of filling that gap for the inner child so that it starts to be more of a filling in um and a celebration instead of this thing that's like, oh, you know, this thing. Um, but really embracing your grief. You know, grief is not a sign that you've done anything wrong. It's not a sign that you're bad, it's not a sign that you're not healed. It's a sign that you're a loving human being, and you know, that this is a big loss. And it's kind of like you you want to deal with it like, not like when am I gonna get over it, but more like this is a devotional practice, you know, with every layer that shows up of sadness, grief, uh, disappointment, um, old fears arising. It's just you just gotta welcome that next layer and digest it and work through it because something else I've found, you know, through watching myself over these years, that there's always a predictable like soaring that happens after I allow myself to kind of drop into the grief and just let it be okay, like embrace it and soothe myself through it. And and again, realizing this is still the best choice. Even though there's moments that suck, it sucks so much less than if I was still in that um traumatic family situation. So um allowing yourself to kind of drop into it, into that messy place. And then it always seems to result in a forward movement, a big forward movement afterwards. So kind of trusting the process and getting support from other women who have gone through this. I feel like there's kind of a special sisterhood between women that have gone through this journey of no contact. Um, I really think, you know, some of the most badass uh warrior women are women that have had to make this choice. Because think about it, patriarchy, I one of the early feminists, her, I think her name is Kate Millet, she just passed away this year. Um, she one of her big quotes is that one of patriarchy's biggest vehicles is the family. So one of the biggest, hardest things that we have to do is face the patriarchy in our family, that domination model, that model of power over. And so we're we're fighting it in the world, but it's also right there in our relationships, even with relationships with our mothers. So seeing that this whole process is really owning your power and really claiming on behalf of your lineage and the women who come after you and the women around you are all going to be affected by your claiming an integrity of your value, because that's what it's really about. It's like I'm not willing to be abused.

unknown 19:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, and it makes it has ripple effects in every other part of our lives. Once that decision's made and we can honor it, I've just found has massive ripple effects.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, exactly. It's like we can't lose what we never had. And that's another thing to remember that the part of us that is afraid of being alone and abandoned after we say, you know, go no contact, the fear of loss around that, and reminding yourself, and this is something I found in my journey too, like the thing I was fearing the most already happened.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

It was something that already happened to me. The trauma, the aloneness, the abandonment. It was like the child in me was afraid that I would be unsafe and it would go through the same thing again. But it really, it was like reassuring her that, and then this is a really powerful piece of I think healing the mother wound and working with the inner child and mothering ourselves is creating a bond of trust with the inner child where she can really trust that it's it is different now. And that comes back to that inner safety, right? Like cultivating a trust, a loving relationship with that little girl that you were. And part of that is taking in the magnitude of how much you suffered, like really learning the contours of your pain and being that loving witness to it and soothing her and being with her, being the mother that you always wanted to yourself. Because that's the ground, that's like the new ground that we can stand on as women that's really trustworthy. It's our own love, it's our own comfort, our own soothing, our own uh strength and courage. And when we get that, which is partly through grieving, um, as well as getting support, you know, from other women and um self-care is huge in this as well. Um, but that's really that that new that new solid ground we can stand on to make new choices and go beyond the horizons of what our mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers did. You know, that's what gives us that ability to do that, is when the inner child in us is like, okay, I'm down. I feel safe. You know, I'm ready. Like, I feel safe with you. And I trust this new world that I'm in. That's not like my childhood, it's different than my past. The same dangers are no Longer present.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So it takes time. It really takes time, but it's really worth it because it's really what changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah, absolutely. Totally get that. And I'm reminded of traveling half the world on my own and going through India on my own and thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a little bit nervous, but my inner child agreed, and she was like ready and said, I don't want to go back there either, so let's go.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Oh, I love it. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

If we can just put the first foot forward, it's great. Um, I would love to ask you where you stand on forgiveness, forgiveness of our mothers, because I think there's a lot of I've seen different messages banded about on it's only when we forgive that we healed. I'm not really with that. Um, and different messages about well, she did the best she could with the tools she'd got, da la la. And personally, I feel I feel none of that. I feel it's just something that's in the background that happens very organically as I move forward. But that's my experience, and I'd love to I'd love to hear your experience and take on that.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important point. Uh, I agree with you. I think um forgiveness is not necessary to heal. I believe that forgiveness is the result, it had to be real, to be like real forgiveness, it has to be a byproduct of an authentic process. Um, I think let's just forgive and forget, or you need to forgive to heal. That's like a little tendril of that belief of like, if we just put it away, it actually goes away. Um, and and I'm it's so I've talked to so many women who are like, I've tried to forgive, and it still comes up. And it's like, yeah, because forgiveness isn't real unless you've actually gone through the process of you know, working through it. And usually forgiveness is just the a form of acceptance and a form, a form of like really being at peace with yourself. And I can tell you on my journey, like um I was feeling that pressure, you know, to forgive. But I and instead I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna let myself stay in anger as long as I want, damn it. Because, you know, what happened to me wasn't okay. And I'm gonna take my time and just like play in anger a bit and like stretch out in it and see what's here. And um I'm so glad I did that because I it really helped me to own my power. I began to see that the more we can allow ourselves to be angry, like be courageous enough to be enraged on our own behalf, on behalf of the child that we were, um that is the degree to which we can stand firmly in our worth and make choices that fiercely, you know, embody our value in the world. It's what makes us intolerant to future, you know, transgressions against us. It's almost like it's that real um, there's a word I can't think of it, but you know, anger is really what you need to go through before you can get to forgiveness. We can't just go straight to forgiveness. That's like a lazy man's work. You know, it's not, it's not real. I mean, in the end of the day, we can try to forgive, but it's just, it just doesn't happen that way. And sometimes people get this pressure, I think, from their families, like, I said I'm sorry, can't you forgive me? But the truth is, as women, we don't want to just hear a word, an empty phrase, and move forward because we know that's not real, that's not substantial, that's not transformation. So I think we have to really put a stake in the integrity and what's real, not in just the surface level, because you're worth more than that.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

And I think we want relationships that are not surface level anymore. We're just not settling for that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah, that's refreshing to hear. That's very refreshing to hear. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And if we can uh like finish on one point, I you made a great point there about women and anger. And I think as well as uh some sort of perpetuated myth that we need to forgive, I think there's also one that we shouldn't be so angry. And I've found such joy in being angry and such power. Like if something pisses me off, it's telling me something. Something is not okay. Either I've acted out of integrity or somebody else has, or something's not right here, and it's okay for me to use my voice and use my energy in this situation. So yeah, thank you for bringing that. Could you talk a little bit more about that? Have we got time?

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Anger is the key. And I really believe right now we need to support each other in feeling our anger. We can't look to men or to the institutions and structures to give us permission because they have all benefited, they exist by the virtue of our silence. So our anger is the key to everything moving forward, the key to ourselves, our love of our bodies, our love of our each other, the earth, all hinges in our ability to be enraged. We need to be enraged.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Great.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And on that note, and on that note. I feel so energized, so hindu about this. And that note, I know your power's about to cut. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. I'll put all the links in the show notes and links to your website. And um, I believe you've you've got a book coming out at some point.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yes, yes, it's in process. I'm looking for the perfect situation, taking my time and and finding the right home for it so that it reaches millions of women who need it. So I'm really excited about it. Uh you will definitely hear about it when it comes out.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Okay, I'll hear about it. I'll pass the message on to everybody. I can't wait to read it. Uh thanks again, Bethany. I wish you a fantastic day.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Thank you, Melanie. Thanks for the work that you're doing. It's been great to be here today.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Oh, thanks. See you later.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Wow. Once again, fantastic podcast from Bethany. And uh yeah, if you are thinking of going no contact with your mum and you've got lots of feelings about it, and uh you'd love to connect with other people that have either no contact or are thinking about it, then head on over to the Sacred Womb private Facebook group. Uh link is in in the show notes, and uh yeah, it's free to join and just initiate. I can't even say that today. Initiate a conversation with uh the women in there. There's nearly a thousand women in there now. Uh it is a safe space to support you on your on your journey of empowerment and connection with your womb space and journey to love in your cycle and using it as a natural pathway on your body. So, yeah, that's there. That is on offer. You're not alone. I know that uh feeling alone was one of the things I definitely felt when I went no contact, and I could have done with some people who were also in that position to speak to. So I hope that offers you uh a supportive and safe space. So uh that's all from me. I'll be back in the new year with another gem from Bethany. Uh, I've also got April on from the moon is my calendar. We'll be doing a new moon mandala, and Holly Griggspaul is joining us to talk about her book uh Sweetening the Pill, and she's also going to tell us about Daisy, the fertility monitor. So, uh, some great podcasts coming up, and I wish you a safe, connected, uh, restful, whatever holiday time that you want, and I'll see you in the new year. I really hope you enjoyed the podcast and that you got some useful tips out of it that can make a genuine difference in your daily life. And if you'd love to work deeper with this stuff, then do head on over to thesacredwomb.com where you can sign up to receive the weekly newsletter and an invite to our private Facebook group where you can share, learn, and grow with like minded women in a safe supported space. Thank you so much for tuning in. Do leave us a rating and your comments are very, very welcome. And I'll see you next time.