Episode 247 | Danny Layne and James DeGaffenreid - Bro. James (Part IV)

Something is uniquely disorienting about church hurt: the place that taught you to trust God becomes the place where trust gets broken. We sit down with James DeGraffenried to talk about spiritual abuse, religious trauma, and what happens when a group that once felt full of worship slowly shifts into man rule, fear, and control.

We walk through the contrast between an earlier atmosphere of sincere singing and Bible-centered preaching and the later claims that twist the gospel into loyalty to leaders. James describes warning signs that show up in coercive religion: pressure to prove holiness through proximity to “apostles,” threats that manipulate conscience, and even financial demands that target homes, businesses, and retirement savings. We also talk about why “damage control” is not repentance, and why real accountability looks like humility, confession, and change.

Most importantly, we speak to the listener who feels stuck at point Z after starting at point A. If church trauma has left you numb, ashamed, angry, or convinced you can’t come back, we offer a simple starting place: talk to the Lord honestly, ask Him for mercy, and let the Holy Spirit draw you. We connect practical hope to Scripture, including the call to return to first love, the honesty of Psalm 51, and the urgency of “today is the day of salvation.”

If this helped you, subscribe, share it with someone who’s rebuilding after church hurt, and leave a review so more wounded hearts can find a safe path toward healing.

Visit us online: https://woundedheartswoundedchurches.com

Transcript

Welcome And Why Healing Matters

Prince Moon 0:01

Good day, listeners. We present to you our podcast, Wounded Hearts, Wounded Churches. We discuss a variety of topics that are important to the church. Examples include sexual abuse, all types of addictions, religious abuse, and recovery. This platform provides counseling sessions, meetings for question and answer, and a counseling continuum. Our co-host includes Jamila, our technical director. We have an impressive array of program contributors. And I'm your host. My name is Prince, founder of Antioch U Center, Father13C Program, Licensed Counselor, now retired. So join in this exciting podcast, Wounded Hearts, Wounded Churches, and be a part of the healing process. But tonight's special guest has been for the past couple of weeks. He's a friend of mine. I appreciate him, James DeGraffitery. And he's in Tennessee area. He's got some excellent content, a new program coming on in the future. And we just thank God for him. He has a burden for God's people. He's been through some issues and he's been healing and doing well. And we appreciate him. Give him a hand for being here tonight with James. Glad you are here again.

How To Find James Online

Prince Moon 1:18

First things, Brother James, how can we contact you and chime into your content?

James DeGraffenreid 1:26

Brother Moon, you can find me on Facebook, uh C-O-G-R Chronicles, Exposing the Shadows. My personal Facebook, James Rollins, D. Grafenreed, and Brother Bernie Tahoke and I are uh trying to get a webpage and uh YouTube channel started. Um the name of it is uh Let Us Reason Together. Uh there's a lot of Let us reasons together. Uh if you type in at Bernie Tahokie 7. Let me spell that for you. At B E R N I E T-O-C-H-O-L-K-E 7. That'll take you to the YouTube channel uh and that way you don't have to be searching for it and finding it. At Bernie Tahoke 7. So uh we trust that it will be a format uh brother moon to where uh if someone finds this site they'll be able to find you, they'll be able to find Brother Dan, they'll be able to uh Brother Bernie has written uh several books. Uh he wants to uh make audio uh versions of the books that he's written. Um but we want it to be a place where people can uh if they find this site, they'll be able to find you. They'll be able to find uh brother Dan and trust that the Lord will bless it and help souls. Uh, you know, Brother Moon, we've talked a lot about healing.

Prince Moon 3:19

Yes.

James DeGraffenreid 3:21

I believe uh we haven't really talked much about the COGR.

Prince Moon 3:27

Yes, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 3:28

Uh I I shared with you my experience uh when I met them back in 1994, and for the 10 years that I was there amongst

Remembering The Early COGR Atmosphere

James DeGraffenreid 3:40

them.

Prince Moon 3:40

Um tell me about the atmosphere back then. What were the songs, the messages? Draw us a picture of the atmosphere during that time years ago.

James DeGraffenreid 3:51

Brother, it was heaven. Uh I'm I'm telling you, it was it was it was people who had a heart to worship the Lord in spirit and truth. The singing was as the heaven angelic singing. You could you can listen to the congregational uh singing of back in the 90s, early 200 uh early 2000s. Uh congregational singing was just it was heavenly, and I'm not exaggerating. Uh uh the preaching, the the first message that I had that I heard Danny Lane preach was entitled The Crucified Life. And it was, brother, it was uh it was a good message. It was a message, uh the word of God. Uh I believe I shared with you uh, you know, there had to be an evil spirit at work even back then that was I didn't see it. Uh we see what it's come to now, and it's evident that uh the Lord is not pleased with the C O G R. And that's not just me saying that, brother. It's as we look into the Word of God and as we we know what Jesus said, we know what the Word says the church is. Uh and and and you don't need to take my word for it or anybody's word for it. You can you can search it out and hear what they've said about themselves, and uh it's just unbelievable what they have done, how how they have perverted the gospel of Christ. They've they've made themselves to be the Messiah. They uh have told their people that if they just walk in front of the apostles and shake their hand, that they'll be sanctified, holy. Um, they've they they've they've threatened the people to uh turn in their 401ks, their sell their homes and downsize and you know, give the the apostles the money,

How Spiritual Control Took Over

James DeGraffenreid 6:20

give their businesses. I mean, it's just it's unbelievable, brother Moon. The things that has has happened.

Prince Moon 6:26

Brother James, was there a name change, or was that always their name in the beginning, or was there a name change after they started the the group?

James DeGraffenreid 6:35

It was Church of God whenever I first uh met Danny Lane. Okay. Uh the they added Restoration to the title and made it Church of God Restoration. Whenever there was a few ministers that left in uh early 2000, uh they left. And Danny wanted to uh take over a campground in Nooksack, Washington, uh, wanted to take it from the local congregation there, and it was at that time that that's the Church of God under Danny Lane incorporated under Church of God Restoration, and they they developed from there uh brother James.

Prince Moon 7:24

Could that uh looking back and in my own mind, could that be another denomination when we add names to the church? Restoration, oh yes, church of God. Uh I mean Oh yes, you know, I mean, would you call that another denomination?

James DeGraffenreid 7:44

Yes, brother, it's man rule. There's there's no question, brother, when you look at what they're preaching, what they've done. Uh and they've been found out. God has been faithful to expose this place and expose these evil men, and they're trying to do damage control now. And if we go back to what we just shared in the last episode of the unfaithful steward who was found out, he he tried to make a way for himself instead of doing the two things that he should have done humble himself before the Lord to confess and forsake his sin and and and plead for mercy. These evil apostles are trying to maintain the status quo and maintain the man rule that they've held over the people. They're they're expecting the people to just forgive them. Uh we listened to the meeting that they held in Elmer, Ontario about, I don't know, three weeks ago or so. It was three hours and 44 minutes. And uh there was no apologies. They were uh making excuses. Uh they were saying that if the uh brethren will tell them to sell their five hundred thousand dollar plus home, uh that they would do it. Now, brother, when it it came to my mind as I listened to them say these things, when Zacchaeus met our Lord, yeah, Zacchaeus told Jesus, I'll give half of everything I have to the poor. Right. And and if if I've defrauded a man, I'll give back fourfold. Jesus didn't tell Zacchaeus to do that. Zacchaeus told the Lord, that's what I'll do. And Jesus said, Today salvation has come to this house. Yes, yes, see, there's such a difference, brother Moon, is what we spoke in the last episode. Such a difference between worldly wisdom and godly wisdom, where we we humble ourselves in a fear of God.

Prince Moon 10:17

Brother James, tonight DeGraffenreid his content and what he has to offer for those who've been wounded and how God has brought him back.

Finding Your Way Back After Trauma

Prince Moon 10:25

Brother James, how can people get back? I know scores of people, young people, they've been wounded. Some are worshiping God in the midst of confusion in their minds. Uh, they've been shifted from point A to point Z. Uh, some have just stopped going to church, some have become atheists, some have become homosexuals because of the the issues that have gone on. And how can they find a way back? You've been through it, you've experienced the trauma, but yet God is using you. Started work there. You're sharing with us good things. How can a person find their way back?

James DeGraffenreid 11:10

Well, brother, as I shared with you in my testimony, I was down and out. Uh, the enemy had had his way with me, and I had listened to the enemy for years. I had a heart as I shared my testimony. I had a heart hoping that the Lord would help me to be saved. We have to we have to have a desire for the Lord to help us. Yes, and as I share with you, I started asking the Lord to help me. That's all I could do is pray, Lord, please help me. Help me to be saved again. And God worked for my good, brother. I didn't, it was not me. I had I can't take any credit for any part of it. God was merciful. You know, uh Jesus told Nicodemus that the Holy Spirit is like the wind.

Prince Moon 12:06

Yes.

James DeGraffenreid 12:07

We don't know where it comes from and we don't know where it goes, but we know we know when it passes by our chi.

Prince Moon 12:15

Amen.

James DeGraffenreid 12:15

And that's the way it is with the Holy Spirit. It's like we spoke about the prodigal son. He came to himself whenever he was in the the place that he was just miserable, and he remembered, he remembered the good things of his father.

Prince Moon 12:34

Amen.

James DeGraffenreid 12:35

Brother, we we have to we have to we have to have a heart. If we ask God to help us, brother, he's gonna help us. Yes, we may not know how to ask him to help us, but if we pray, Lord, help me, I need your help, he's gonna help me. And that's what I would encourage someone who is in the place that you've just described, start praying, asking the Lord to help you. If you've been saved and you've been hurt, or you've been uh or backslid, traumatized, or or backslidden, you've left you've left the the the the fold.

Prince Moon 13:16

Yes, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 13:17

Uh it's it's gonna take the Lord to help you to find your way back, amen.

Prince Moon 13:24

The Holy Spirit is gonna have to draw you, amen, amen, amen, and help you.

James DeGraffenreid 13:30

And brother, I would tell anyone to remember if you were saved, remember the goodness of God.

Prince Moon 13:37

Oh, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 13:38

Remember, uh, let's let's look at the the message to the church in Ephesus, brother. That this comes to mind. Yes, Revelation chapter 2. Let's read what Jesus said. Under the angel of the church of Ephesus, write, these things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks. I know thy works and thy labor and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil, and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles and are not, and hast found them liars, and hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast labored, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless, I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Prince Moon 14:36

All right, all right.

James DeGraffenreid 14:37

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen and repent and do the first works, or else or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of this place. Good point, except thou repent.

Prince Moon 14:55

Good point, good point, good point.

James DeGraffenreid 14:57

But this thou hast that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Prince Moon 15:03

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith.

James DeGraffenreid 15:09

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Now, brother, they had done some good things. Yes, but they forgot their first love. Now, that first love is that love of Jesus when we realized what Jesus did for us on Calvary's tree, and he washes our sins away, and he makes us a new creature in Christ, all things pass away. Behold, all things become new. Brother, Jesus said here they needed to repent and do the first works.

Prince Moon 15:46

Amen. Let me take you back. Uh, I'm curious to know. The devil does not change his tactics. What was he telling you? What was he telling you when you were out there? What was he saying? You couldn't make it, the saints don't love you. What was he saying to you to warn others to know the ways of the enemy?

James DeGraffenreid 16:10

Well, brother, I knew that I had fallen from grace, I knew that I had offended the Lord, and I lost out. I was, brother, I um I was lost. I I didn't have the Holy Spirit dealing with me. Uh, the devil would remind me you're lost. The devil would remind me what I did. And the the devil will you might not have done something. You might have a person might have had something done to them. The devil's gonna keep bringing that up and reminding you and using that to keep you from finding the peace and the joy and the healing that the Lord wants so much to give you.

Prince Moon 16:58

Well said, well said, well said. So he'll he'll cause you to replay those situations. Oh, yes, to replay that hurt. Oh, yes, and to magnify it, and to keep that wound fresh and open.

James DeGraffenreid 17:12

Yes, and as I share with you in my testimony, the Lord, when the Lord saved me, he told me, he said, You've been listening to the devil. And I had, I'd been listening to the devil, and uh letting the devil, you know, just tell him, Well, you lost out, you lost out, and I did. I lost it was my doing. I fell from grace, I crucified the Lord afresh. Brother, it was no small thing what I did, but God was merciful to me, and God didn't leave me in that place. He was He was merciful, He came looking for me, and so you know, but I had to be honest with the Lord. I wasn't trying to, I can't tell you the number of people, Brother Moon, that tried to tell me in those years that I was lost. I had so many people say, Oh, you're not lost. You, you know, they tried to tell me what the Baptist would tell me. You're not lost, you're you're still saved. But I knew in my heart I was not saved, brother. And I believe the Lord was able to use that to help me to find a place of repentance before Him.

Repentance Now And A Door Home

Prince Moon 18:22

Uh so, Brother James, someone tonight is backslid and they feel convicted. Can they come back to God tonight?

James DeGraffenreid 18:31

Amen, brother. God will receive you. Listen, it's not hard. Listen, brother.

Prince Moon 18:41

Talk me through it. You're talking to someone in Singapore, in Mexico, in in Albania, and they're backslid, not saved. Walk them through being saved right now, please.

James DeGraffenreid 18:52

I would I would I would encourage someone in the in the position that you're describing. I would I would encourage them to ask God to be merciful to them and to deal with yes, and it ask the Holy Spirit to draw you to the Lord. And whenever the Lord's Holy Spirit comes close and searching, you take you take that out, and you you humble yourself and you pray and you you do what God says to do. Paul says over uh in 2 Corinthians, he says, uh, godly sorrow brings work of repentance unto salvation. Brother, if we'll let God help us to do what he says to do, he's gonna do his work. He's not gonna turn anyone away. But the devil will do everything he can to keep someone from coming to that moment where they humble themselves, where they realize they've they've they've offended God, and they need the Lord to help them to come home.

Prince Moon 20:04

Should they repent right now or should they wait till to tomorrow or wait till Sunday?

James DeGraffenreid 20:08

The Bible says, the Bible says today is the day of salvation. Harden not your heart. Seek the Lord while he may be found. Brother, it's like when I woke up then that morning after uh not knowing what I'd done the night before, and I looked in the mirror and I told myself, you you could have died last night, and you wouldn't even had a chance to pray, and you would have died a lost man. Now, brother, that's why it's so important for a soul to humble themselves when the Lord is faithful to convict, when the Lord is faithful to draw you, then we have to do we have to do what God requires everyone to do, and that's receive Christ.

Prince Moon 20:59

It's not about a man or about a church per se, it's about Christ or by himself, isn't it?

James DeGraffenreid 21:05

Amen, brother. The church is the bride of Christ, brother. The church of God is every blood washed one, every joint that supplies, every every every child of God, whether they're in the United States or in Singapore or in Macedonia or wherever they are, Germany, wherever they are in this world, China, Korea, brother, the Lord has his church.

Prince Moon 21:36

Amen.

James DeGraffenreid 21:39

And Jesus said the gates of hell will not reveal against you.

Prince Moon 21:43

Amen. Amen. Amen.

James DeGraffenreid 21:46

Now listen, brother, Jesus said, Jesus said, and I, if I be lifted up, will all men to me. Brother, that's that's the message of the church of God. That's what this world needs, brother. Jesus' word, Jesus' blood, the Holy Spirit of God will do what God promises that it will do. We have to come to God in His way and in His time. You know, that's one of the biggest mistakes some people make. They think they can come to God when they want to in their time and in their way. No, it doesn't work that way. It's the mercy of God that draws a soul to repentance.

Prince Moon 22:40

Brother James, in our closing moments, maybe someone is right near to being saved right now, but they're just not sure. Maybe they're fearful. Maybe their people may not want to receive me. They may bring up the past. Uh, I'm ashamed of myself. I don't know where to go. What should they do now?

James DeGraffenreid 23:02

Talk to the Lord, brother. With what you've just described, I would encourage someone uh in in the place that you've just described. I would encourage them, you pray and just talk to the Lord. Tell him as openly and honestly as they can, Lord, I've done this. Lord, I've done this. I know I've well we could go to Psalms 51. Yeah, I would I would encourage I would encourage someone in the in the place that you're that you're describing to read Psalms 51 where David prayed. And uh he he asked God to help him.

Prince Moon 23:47

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

James DeGraffenreid 23:49

You know, God's not gonna turn anyone away, brother.

Prince Moon 23:53

Thank the Lord, thank the Lord.

James DeGraffenreid 23:55

The Lord, the Lord, the Lord, the Lord is like the Father who saw his son coming, amen. And he ran to meet him. Yes, yes, and he put his robe on him, he put his ring on his foot, and he killed the fatted calf. And brother, as as you brought out a couple weeks ago, there's joy in heaven for one sinner that repenteth, brother. Brother, that's why that's why Jesus came.

Prince Moon 24:27

Amen. Amen. Well, James, we gotta go. We're beyond time now. Friends, we're here tonight with the testimony of what Brother James went through, how he left God, but God came back and restored him and healed him through that church trauma. Tonight, the same can be for you. If you were saved tonight, let us know. We want to encourage you. So, next week, again, want to hear from you again. Thank you, my friends, so much for that honest heart of sharing to our engineer. Thank you so much, and those that listen, we'll see you next week. May the Lord bless you. Have a good night.