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The Running Voyager
This is a podcast about running and storytelling. Each episode we’ll talk to a runner and hear their story. Running is never just about running there’s always so much more to it!
The Running Voyager
Inside South Africa’s Running Boom, Comrades Fixes, and Cape Town Marathon's Cancellation
We explore South Africa’s running surge with Stuart Mann—from sold-out ballots and the Cape Town Marathon cancellation to how Comrades has shifted from controversy toward accountability. With 178 unique marathons completed, Stuart shares what resilient races get right and how the sport has evolved since COVID.
We discuss participation trends, the impact of social media, and how ballot systems affect major events like Two Oceans and Comrades. Stuart reflects on lessons from the Otter Trail, and the realities of technical terrain. We also unpack the Comrades 2024–2025 improvements, and what the Cape Town Marathon’s cancellation reveals about race governance and planning in South Africa.
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Hi everyone, welcome to episode 128. In this episode, my guest is Stuart Mann, aka the Running Man. If you know anything about South African running, Stuart is the statistics guy. The last time I interviewed Stuart was in 2023. Stuart, in his own words, describes himself as a regular runner who just enjoys running unique marathons. In fact, Stuart has run about 178 unique marathons in total. That's excluding the marathons he's run more than once. In this episode though, our focus is on the cancelled Cape Town Marathon, comrades, and the changes that were made there in 2025, and Stuart's own running journey. Here's my episode with Stuart. Okay, it's been a while.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's been a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh in Japanese they have an expression. It's called sashiburi. Sashiburi. And that's used like when you haven't seen a person for a for a while. Yeah, yeah. How are things in South Africa? How's the weather and stuff?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's good. It's uh you know, Joburg is I like this time of year. It's like nice thunder showers coming in in the afternoons, and uh, you know, sort of it's not too hot yet, but uh warm enough that you can jump in the pool every now and again. So I did that actually after my run this morning. I had a had a quick swim. So it was still a little bit cool, but it was uh let's just say it was refreshing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So is it my imagination? Because I was just thinking the other day, is it my imagination or does it seem like things are changing so much in the world, including in the running industry?
SPEAKER_00:Um in in what way? Uh that do you ask?
SPEAKER_01:So so, like when I was in South Africa, which is now uh basically three and a half years or so, we ran marathons, we did what we did. It was just regular because comrades. But now I don't know if it's because of social media or not. It just seems like everyone is running, and running is this crazy big thing all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, it's it's interesting. Um, I think that it'd be interesting to see the actual numbers. Um so I think it is picking up popularity. Uh, I think, but I think it's almost got to where it was pre-COVID. So um I know you know I'd monitor the the marathon finishes each year, and it was still um last year, so that's all finishes of marathon and ultras. It was still down below the 2019 levels, you know, the last pre-COVID year, but it was getting closer. So um this year actually, ironically, it's going to be way down, and that's because of Cape Town marathon cancellation, you know, because that that's a massive amount of people. That's that'll be you know sort of close to yeah, say 18, 20,000 people that would have finished Cape Town if it had gone ahead. But you are seeing, like particularly in the Western Cape, races are selling out incredibly quickly, which didn't used to happen. Now, whether that's just the case of supply and demand, um, two oceans had by far the biggest amount of ballots applications um this year. I think it's over 55,000 now for the half and the ultra um in in total, which is way, way bigger than than ever before, um, particularly in the ultra marathon. You know, you were very unlucky if you didn't get in it before, whereas now you're actually quite lucky if you get in, you know, on on the ballot. And comrades are opening their general entries tomorrow, so they're already that are open for green number um and for comrades, uh marathon association members. So they've already sold about 10%, I think just over 10% of the entries on to the green numbers. Tomorrow the general entries open. I I'm predicting it'll sell out within the day. So we'll see. Maybe I'm uh uh you know over optimistic, but I think it's gonna sell out very, very fast. I know pre-COVID or the COVID cancel cancelled race that sold out in six, I think it was six days, something like that, which I think was the fastest. But I I I expect it's gonna sell out in record time this year.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, okay, that's pretty, pretty wild. But it's interesting that you say pre-COVID numbers and post-COVID numbers. Obviously, I think social media might give us a perception of something seeming to be extremely more than it is because it's showing up in your feed all the time, maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would assume so. Yeah, so I mean that's why I like the stats because the stats don't lie. Um the you know, sort of, yeah, obviously the social media algorithms do push certain things at us, and probably more and more. Uh I know I get you know lots of uh, you know, I predominantly look at running stuff, so I get my feed inundated with yeah, with with running things. So but I mean I think it's a it's it's good overall. I think definitely things are on the on the uptick uh when it comes to running, which is great. I mean it's nice for uh for everyone. You know, everyone wins, more money comes in. If there's more people, uh then it means elite athletes, you know, hopefully will have got uh get more money, more chances sponsorships, sponsors get more interested in in growing sports and and so on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Uh I I recently uh been asked by a Japanese magazine to write an article comparing running in South Africa and running in Japan. And I couldn't figure out what to write, but I ended up writing about comrades, and I've never run it myself, but I used a lot of your uh I I referred a lot to your website for the resources that I needed. And you telling me that the entry is there tomorrow. I think I'll actually shout out to people to enter. Maybe there's a couple of Japanese people who might be interested in it.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, good. It's always excellent to have uh international runners come and come and experience it. Obviously, comrades, I think it's very different to yeah, to other races around the world. I I know I did the I did the Tokyo Marathon, but before it was a major, my wife and I ran it together. We we we entered, we both got in the ballot. I think at that stage it was easy. If you if you weren't Japanese, you're almost guaranteed to get an entry. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And um thoroughly enjoyed it. I know what I found was quite different was the silence of the runners. Like in in South Africa, particularly in road running, everyone's talking to each other, and there's lots of you know chirping and noise and things like that. The spectators were quite noisy, but the runners themselves, absolutely silent. Um, you know, so I thought that was quite quite uh quite interesting and different.
SPEAKER_01:It is very different, it's very hard to get used to. So sometimes I have to hold myself in check because I want to chat with everybody and and you know be lively. You know how we Africans are, we just like a bit and the Japanese are very very muted and very quiet, so it's it's a contradiction. Yeah, but let's talk about your unique marathon journey. So if anyone hasn't listened, I I've already had Stuart before, so he's already introduced himself, but maybe a little reintroduction.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So I mean I guess I um I just am an average runner who really enjoys running marathons. Um, and uh several years ago I just decided that I would try and run as many different marathons um as I could. So I wanted to do a hundred unique marathons. As in if I've run a marathon ten times, it only counts as one. So to do a hundred different marathons. Um and the reason why I did that is I found that I was at the time I was traveling a lot overseas, and when I was traveling, I'd look for a marathon, and I would sometimes travel like to different countries or go halfway, you know, or driving around and and routing flights very creatively to go run international marathons. I thought, well, you know, I don't really do that in South Africa, and um so just started with that and then got to the hundred unique marathons, and then thought, well, I really enjoy this, let's keep it going and seeing you know if I can run every marathon in South Africa, um, which um has been quite a good challenge, uh, especially because they keep adding more and more marathons, new marathons are emerging. So there's been actually a uh a lot of marathon new marathons which have cropped up after COVID. So um it's a moving goalpost. So I don't know if I'll ever ever truly get there because you know every year they're adding let's just say 12-15 marathons. Not all of them last a long time. Some of them are once-off and then they go away. Other ones are starting to become regular fixtures, but it's a nice problem to have as well that you got uh all these new marathons, and I I just love traveling around South Africa. It's such a beautiful country, so many different places and um different terrains and and things. So yeah, it's just uh yeah, it's it's what uh what makes me tick is running different marathons around South Africa.
SPEAKER_01:So what number are you at now?
SPEAKER_00:Um I actually should have checked. I think it's around so my total marathon count is 290. Um and I think my unique um I th yeah, I think it's around it's it's it's like uh 160, 170. I'll have to, yeah. I can maybe just quickly try and uh quick quickly try and check. Um, but I can check very, very quickly. Yeah, I think it's about 170 78. I think that's where where it is on unique on unique marathons.
SPEAKER_01:So wow, oh my god, that's wild. Wow, well done. Did you run capsule hook just now or not?
SPEAKER_00:I didn't, I I didn't. I have done it before. Um, but it's just I've it I just find it's uh it's it's uh I I try and like manage my my travel budget, my running budget to run races I haven't done before. And uh Copshow is lovely, but it's it's a very, very early start. And I'm a I'm a I'm a guy who needs his beauty sleep. So um, you know, with being point to point and you've got to catch a bus uh very early in the morning. I I forget what time the buses go, but it's like I don't know, four o'clock in the morning or something, might even be earlier than that these days, 3 30 in the morning. So then you've got to be getting up much earlier than that to make sure you get your bus and stuff. So yeah, um uh yeah, so so anyway, I didn't I didn't do that, but I will be um next weekend I'm doing Jackaranda Marathon. Yeah, and then uh last last weekend um I ran the Let's Go Potsch Marathon for the for the third time, which is quite a nice little uh you know, it's a student, it's a funny little town because it's it's a student town, but they've also got an army base, you've got students and soldiers in the town. Oh really? Yeah, so um, but they do all the tables, um either the student reses or the or the soldiers, and yeah, very, very nice, lovely, lovely little race, very, very flat. Um, but nice, friendly, you know, little little out-of-town race.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, but another thing that you mentioned, Stuart, is about how beautiful South Africa is. And I think if there are any South African listeners, I know in our minds we imagine that going overseas to run a race, you are going to experience something unique and different. And that is true. But as someone who has left South Africa, I've only been to one or two places. I must say South Africa has some of the most beautiful races. I'm not even prejudiced. I mean, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. I think I've done about 40 or 40 odd international races. Um, but I agree, you can't match South Africa in terms of beauty and diversity, and you know, just also the way that the races are are organized and run. You know, a lot of the out-of-town ones are done by the local community with a local running club, and you know, very often you'll have more supporters and volunteers than you will have runners. I mean, that's just what it's like, you know, and every every table is like a a feeding trough full of you know bull tong and jelly babies and chips and you know, fruit and you know, and and so on. So um, yeah, and I mean there's just you know, you can run in the desert, you can run in the forests, uh, you can run in the mountains. Um, if you want, you know, city marathons, you can do that. I mean, I I particularly like going out, you know, out of town because I think that's where you see, you know, the real beauty um of the country.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Anyway, enough about praising uh South Africa. Let's uh talk about Ottawa. So uh obviously you're traditionally a roadrunner. Is it okay for me to call you that? I see you you traversed on our trails, or are you dabbling in trail a little bit?
SPEAKER_00:So I I you definitely it's fine to say I'm mainly a roadrunner. I'm a very uh occasional uh trail runner and a very untalented uh trail runner, I will freely admit. So um, yeah, I just I I I um I I did a talk for Easy Equities um uh at um and they sponsor the Otter at the end of the talk. Uh when I do talks, I I do them for charity. I've got a kids education charity I support. But um at the end of the talk, they said, Oh, well, you know, would you like an entry entry for the otter? And I said, Okay, that sounds pretty good. It's been on my bucket list, um, you know, but uh, you know, being, as I say, a very very un spectacular and occasional trail runner, but anyway, so that was yeah, I gratefully accepted it. I don't think I knew exactly what I was getting in for in for at the time when I accepted it. Um, so um I've done a few like and this is like way back. I mean, this is uh you know, probably 20 years ago when I first started running. Um I did monte sources three times in a row and I did roads, but those are kind of like they're the trail runs that all the all the road runners do, you know. It's and it's not very technical, it's like it's just it's like more off-road running with a little bit here and there, like you climb the chain ladders and monosauces, but I don't remember them being particularly difficult. Um and then funny enough, just the way it worked out, I mean it's been yeah, uh close to two decades probably since I've last done a uh proper trail race. Um, and then I ended up um entering oh I was going overseas to visit my daddy's in the UK uh for a week, and then I was looking for a couple of races to run, seeing through races on the um, and I was flying in and out of Manchester, and there was a Manchester Trail Marathon on on the weekend I was leaving, so I thought, well, that's good, I'll sign up for that. But also not very technical. Um, you know, quite a few heavy climbs and stuff, but you can run, or I can run most of it. So if I can run most of it, it's not a technical uh trail race. Um, and then uh funnily enough, I also then got a out of the blue through by Run magazine invite to the Seychelles trail race, which is 22Ks. That was pretty technical, and then I was like uh at the end of that was 22k's. I thought, like, oh okay, hang on, you know, for what's otter like? And otter's probably more technical than that was. Um, so yeah, it was uh interesting. I mean, I must say, I I I I all all I owned, and even for those other two races, you just had to have a a water bottle. So I had a collapsible water bottle. That was the extent of my trail running kit. Um, so I did have to go and splash out, and uh now the most expensive item of clothing I've ever owned in my entire life is my um is a rain jacket, a Silliman rain jacket that I bought. Um so yeah, way and way more expensive than anything else that I own. Or um, and uh, you know, the um you know the backpack and things like that. So anyway, I kitted myself out. Um and but I must say it was fantastic. I mean, so I mean obviously the the otter is very technical, um, and anything technical I I walk. So um I took I think about 10 and a half hours, 11 hour cutoff on the on the challenge, which I did, but also I you know stopped for photos and to make the most of the experience and and things, so absolutely beautiful. I mean, so so glad that I got the opportunity and was able to do it. Um, yeah, and yeah, I think also it gave me a lot of respect for the guys at the front of the field when you see they're finishing in in around four hours, and uh just I I actually don't know how they do it, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know how they do it either.
SPEAKER_00:It's uh I mean some of that up uh it's not I mean the up and the downs are just so yeah, um, you know, they were hard to they were hard to walk, uh put it that way. I was like clambering up on all fours using my upper body strength, uh, you know, to get to get through it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, those guys and they they barrel, that's the word I will use because we like uh the otter is very technical. Japanese trails are also technical because they have for some reason they have so many routes, but the guys don't walk any of it, they're just like gazelles just jumping and going downhills. And oh my goodness, it's wild. It's genetic.
SPEAKER_00:No, I mean that's I'm busy actually with the article, and I've written there like for me, it's either walk or die. And since I'm still here to tell the tale, you know what I chose in the on the trails.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. What was the most surprising thing for you when you were doing the otter?
SPEAKER_00:Um sure. I'd it's I'd say uh like luckily I'd done that Seychelles one before, so I got like okay, well, I remember when I did that, it was like I I remember doing like a I don't know, it's like say a 15-minute kilometer, and I thought, wow, that's that's slow. And uh that ended up being like a you know, later on I was doing like a couple of 22 minute kilometers and things like that, you know, which is on incredibly technical stuff. So I think probably just that the you know that you are going to it's like you know, it's going there's going to be a lot of very, very, you know, kind of slow and steady uh progressions. Um I mean I kind of as I say I'm busy writing the article at the moment, so I I've got this analogy. Um, you know, my my wife watches more TV than I do because I'm obviously write, I'll often write and stuff like that. But anyway, when I'm ready to come watch TV, I'll come into the lounge and then she'll pause her show and look at me expectantly. And I'm one of those people I always then remember I need to do at least one or two things after that. So I'll be back, I'll be 10 seconds. I'm gonna grab a beer, I'll be 10 seconds, and sure enough, I I'll be 10 seconds or less, I'll arrive back with my beer. And in that 10 seconds, she presses unpause and she watches like 10 seconds of a show. And I've always thought, now I've been married long enough, I've never said this, but I always thought, like, you know, what's the point? Like, really was that worth it, like those 10 seconds. But I found that was what the otter was like because it's so technical. I'm walking, walking, walking, and then to be like a hundred meters where you can run. So, like you can run for like 10 seconds, but you've got to run those 10 seconds to make the cutoff. So you kind of it's like watching a a whole Netflix season, but like pausing, you know, it's like pause, play, pause, play, pause, play, pause, play, um, you know, to get to the end of the otter. So yeah, that was I guess that was my my otter experience. Uh the other thing was also how how stiff my calves were then. So when you know, when I run a normal marathon, I normally run quite well within myself, so I don't really push it hard. And I'm you know, you'll feel a little bit of aches, but mainly in the kind of the quads area, never in my calves. But I was, you know, for a couple of days afterwards, I I you know I couldn't I couldn't walk properly on stairs with my calves, they were so stiff. So uh obviously that uh got a got a different uh workout going up and down the stairs on the otter trail.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean have you seen have you seen trail runners calf muscle muscles? Some of them have like these huge calves. It's just like whoa, okay. It's all that uphill running. And how was the Seychelles though? That must have been technical as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was it was lovely. I mean, so you go deep into this, like also indigenous forest. Um, but there you could run, like I think about the first four K's was like you know, runnable and like tar and an easy trail. So you kind of knock off a bit, and obviously 22's, you know, sort of um you know not not that far, but then when you're inside the forest, yeah, also you're clambering up rocks and but you know, spectacular um views, um, and lots of also you go through like lots of different biodiversity sections, you know, sort of um the the only thing is on the top they've got these things called stilt palms, which they didn't warn warn warn us about. And these are palms that protect from being eaten by uh actually giant tortoises. Um, but they've got these like spines, they're like pin cushions. And if you put your hand on that, you come out with a handful of these spines. Um so uh and I did have one spectacular wipeout where I kind of and I was trying to stay a balance, and I kind of did one of those like almost like a big slap on the on the on the on a stilt palm uh spine and I came back with a proper pin cushion hand. Luckily, my um the the blow was somewhat shielded because I was holding my collapsible water bottle, but after that it's no longer, it's now like being pin cushioned. So uh that one item of trail running gear that I did own after this, after the Seychelles run, it was no longer usable. So I had to start from scratch again.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh, trail riding is so expensive with the trail riding gear. It's it's too much, it's too much. Okay, thank you so much for telling us about those experiences. But let's get into the other stuff now, the more kind of maybe sad, not sad, serious stuff. Obviously, I think the last time we spoke, there was a lot of issues with comrades. They have problems with, like, for example, cutoffs, a lot of people who would have made it didn't make it because they were taken off the course and things like that. And um 2025 there were a couple of improvements and the race is slowly getting better. If you had to compare the race in 2024 and 2025, what sort of things do you think have been done better by the organizers?
SPEAKER_00:Um so I think that there's overall I think comrades is now in a good place, um, which which I will I'll say. Um I think that there was a lot of um yeah, 2023 you had the cutoff drama, and I mean it was yeah, sort of six, seven hundred people who would have earned a medal being pulled off the road, which you know was was was a terrible situation. Um and 2024 was actually a very good race. So um, you know, you had Anne Ashworth who came in as race director. Yes. Um what happened in 2024 was more afterwards, where you know, she was fired or didn't have a contract renewed, um, you know, and you then you had you know what I've called, I mean essentially a t attempted coup by sympathetics administrators to take over the race. Um, and you had a lot of uh revelations of kind of you know, sort of corruption, shenanigans, male administration going on behind the scenes. Um fortunately, that was you know, the AGM last November kind of sorted that out. So um, you know, the board by and large, full of now very credible people who are not in it for their own self-interest, they're in it for the good of the race and putting putting runners first. Um 2025. So I think the race itself by and large went off very, very well. There were a few issues. Um the one in-race issue, which is quite embarrassing, was that the tables for the elites weren't there. So you had this situation where you know I said it was like a picnic style blanket because you had the the thirsty blankets but not on the tables on the ground, and you know, you can't really expect elite athletes to stop and have to pick them up. Um, so and that was I mean, basically the root cause of that, as I as uh as I understand it, um, was a comedy of errors where the office emailed through table locations uh for the um for the uprun and it was a down run. So then and then the they were verified by the provider, but they sent it in the format the office or the or something like or that the they they queried it and it was then sent the locations in a format that they couldn't read and no one raised no one, you know, so it was yeah, really I mean very, very embarrassing to see that on on TV and no doubt impacted a few of the lead athletes. Um, particularly I would say the international runners, you know, the local runners. If you look at like someone like Hedda or someone like that, she's got family along the route, so she's got a backup plan and things like that. So I don't think she was affected. But if you looked at um at Morris Over, who came second, um she actually started cramping a little bit after halfway. And you know, I wonder how much the her missing bottles and not being able to get to them would have would have played a role um in in that. The the big I think the big issue with comrades this year was the finish. So they did a street finish for the first time, which is the right thing to do because you can have more people they want to particularly they wanted to do the dress rehearsal for the hundredth running in 2027. Um and most and most majors or all majors have got a street finish because you can have much more space, entries, exits, and things like that. But unfortunately, the way that they executed that that finish wasn't great. So it left a lot to be desired, lots of complaints from the runners, it was very crowded, congested, people going into medical tents and their families not knowing where they are. Um, yeah, all sorts of things. So I'd say the one good thing is that with the current board is that they they haven't been like previous boards who've denied the issue exists and kind of have tried to sweep things under the carpet. So they took it on the chin, they've you know it acknowledged, they said we got it this wrong, we'll make sure we sort it out for the for the next race. Um, you know, and I know that they have taken on the ideas. So obviously that's uh and really I mean that's what you want what you should expect from your race organizers. It's you know organizing a massive race like Comrades, Two Oceans, Cape Town Marathon, all of those events, it's it's a it's a really, really tough, tough uh task to do. A lot of people are doing so. Yes, you've got the full pay full-time paid staff, but you've also got a lot of volunteers involved. There's always going to be a few mistakes, but what you don't want to see is you don't want to see the same mistakes happening every year. You want to see improvements and you want to see that the organizers are taking accountability and rectifying and sorting things out and putting measures in place for the next year. So personally, I'm confident um that uh that that will happen at Comrades.
SPEAKER_01:So um yeah, I think Okay, that's that's exciting because you know we we always uh trying to recommend our races to people, so it's always good for for us to do things well. And I guess that's the thing, right? Like hiring the right people to do the right job and actually double check and double check everything is so crucial. So I guess, and what you're saying is true, acknowledging the mistake and then working on improving it because nothing is ever going to be 100% on any given day. You know what I mean? And it's as it's progressively getting better. Now, this wasn't part of my questions, but this is one of the things that us as trail runners are grappling with because the world trail majors are coming to South Africa. I don't know if you know this. Um and our trail, South African trail, I I never know like which one should I go to Zim or South Africa, but basically, oh my goodness. But we had trap championships right now that happened in Spain, I think, and South Africa had no had like athletes, like a handful of athletes, there was a whole thing on the internet. As someone who has seen comrades making all these changes and and get slowly getting better, what what advice would you give to us trailrunners? Because I've seen the trail runners on Facebook like we need to organize, we need to get together, what's going on? And what's worrying is they may keep saying we need to organize, we need to get together, and nothing will be done, and the championships will come, and still South African athletes won't be at the start line.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it's a tricky one. So I my my general feeling about ASA is you want to keep them as far away from everything from everything. Um the you know, so sort of I think it's fair to say that they've added very little to this to the sport. You know, they've taken a lot, they've added very, very, very little. Um, you know, there's been a lot of controversies recently. The president of ASA has been suspended. Um uh, you know, I mean he was essentially using the ASA credit card to buy his girlfriends, uh I think girlfriends plural, as I understand it, clothes and spend money in Shebeans. I mean, it's just it's crazy. I mean, how how he even lasted this long, and apparently he has submitted reasons why he should stay on. I mean, it's just it's it's diabolical. It's an absolute joke. Um part of the problem there is the system uh in which they operate because you've got 17 athletics provinces, they've voted for by the clubs, not by the athletes. It's it's just the system is is until the system changes, we we're gonna be left with you know subpar administrators by and large. Yes, there's one or two who are good and in it for the sport, but by and large, we've seen I mean this is over decades, different people have come and gone, and they've all used it basically you know for their own self-interest, um, you know, and yeah, um there's been lots of corruption going on and and and so on. Um, yeah, so I mean I my my advice would be, yeah, it's a problem that the athletes are gonna have to sort out probably themselves, sadly. Um, you know, you've you've had I mean you've seen in in um in road running, yeah, there's a World 50k championships that happened um a couple of years ago, and the athletes got to the airport and they were told, sorry, you don't we don't have your tickets or your visas. Now the official excuse was we don't have visas, but uh they were going to India to get to uh India is a very easy visa to get. So that was nonsense. I think someone had taken all the money. Uh and I mean they literally arrived at the airport. A couple of athletes then funded themselves. Um, I mean we almost definitely would have won the both the men's and the women's team prize if we sent a full team. We didn't have a full team going. Um, I think it actually might have been more administrators and athletes who ended up going. I mean, it's just yeah. Um so my advice would be keep ASA as far away as you can. Um, you know, um it's just a sad situation because they should be there, you know, uh creating the structure and environment for athletes to be successful. But it's yeah, I can't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's so sad. It it really is, it's hard for But anyway, so we've talked about comrades and now let's talk about Cape Town Marathon. So uh I mean I was I really considered getting on a plane and actually coming to South Africa early so I could be there for Cape Town Marathon to do some media work. I'm happy I didn't because we woke up in the morning and it was like Cape Town Marathon is cancelled. And I just recently read your article talking about when when races of that magnitude have been cancelled. I mean, off the top of your head, what was your initial impression of them cancelling the race? Because the reality is Cape Town has winned all the time, pretty much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I do I remember waking up in the morning. Uh sad to say I am in the habit of looking at my phone when I woke up. So I did, and suddenly all these WhatsApp messages started loading. I mean, it was like crazy. It was like, whoa, what's and then yeah, opened. I think I I don't I think it might have been my club WhatsApp group first, and uh seeing that announcement, and you know, and then seeing the you know people going through the emotions that this is not a hoax, this is real, and you know, so on. I think it was about hot box six, so by that stage it was you know, everyone had dealt with the reality, the race the race is cancelled. That's that's you know what has happened. So, I mean, uh, I think it's it's very rare that races of that magnitude get cancelled for weather. So it's truly extreme weather when it occurs. The only one, I think it's a marathon in in Spain, where they had they were predicting w a windstorm of winds over 100 Ks an hour, and the windstorm did materialize and they cancelled it about two days before uh beforehand. So it was yeah, 48 hours, 24 hours, something like that beforehand. So that's the only sort of you know, and there there have been some other ones that have been cancelled, obviously outside of COVID, but you know, um New York Marathon was cancelled one year, but it wasn't because of the weather on the day, it was actually the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, which had happened about six days before when first responders were had been working through the clock and you know, and then and people still didn't have water and electricity. So you had all of those kind of um, so it's very, very rare. So it's I mean it really should be a last resort. The in terms of you know, Cape Town is windy. The yeah, there's you know, kind of in the article I wrote you know, asked a few questions, you know, almost like building up a legal case, but you know, did the was the right call made to cancel? Probably yes. Okay, so with everything and what you saw and the damage to infrastructure and things like that, but should it should winds of that speed? And it wasn't that, you know, it was 48k an hour winds, that's the sustained winds and some gusts of 60. Should that have caused the cancellation of the Cape Town Marathon? And the answer to that is no, you know, it shouldn't, it shouldn't have caused it. So then you've got to then start looking at okay, well, what are the reasons for that? You know, and uh say one of the follow-up questions, well, if next year there are winds of 48k an hour, will that result in Cape Town Marathon being cancelled? And if the answer to that is yes, well, we might as well pack up and go home and kiss world marathon majors status goodbye because the likelihood is that's gonna happen again and it should not result in a great cancellation. Um, you know, so and obviously if the answer is no, then you say, Well, what went wrong this year? What's gonna happen happen differently next next year? So, I mean, I think the sad thing is ultimately everyone loses. Um, obviously, you've got the runners, and that's mainly who I empathize with, and when I write, I mainly write with the from a runner runners perspective. You know, you've got 20 somewhere, yeah, there were 24,000 entrants, but probably about 20,000 starters, something like that. There's normally a a fair fair amount of drop-off, but 20,000 runners who've lost their shots at you know running their first marathon or their first sub-three marathon, or whatever it was, you know, everyone's got their different their different goals. Um, you've got you know, the the the blow, I mean, just to South African economy, must be in the hundreds of millions of Rands. The moment you get World Marathon major status, suddenly now you've got 10,000 plus international runners coming in, you know, spending their money traveling the country, you know, making a holiday of it and traveling around. So for the South African economy and for jobs, it's it's terrible as well. So yeah, I mean, just a very regrettable situation. Nothing we can do about it now, but I think the main thing is to ensure that it it just doesn't happen again. Um, and for the other big races in South Africa to make sure that they've got the contingency plans in place as well, that if there are adverse weather, you know, there's plan B, plan C, and so on, that they can, you know, that they're able to contend with that.
SPEAKER_01:I've got two sort of points that I want to uh bring up. There's one question that I want to ask, which is maybe a conspiracy theory on my part, right? Is uh my daughter is at UCT and she lives on Main Street. There's a race on Main Street, and they had a couple of shootings that week, which doesn't usually happen, but they did have a couple of shootings, and that was part of the marathon route. In fact, on the morning of the race at about 2 a.m., there was another shooting. And I think they don't usually have shootings there. Like I think I'm not sure of the layout of Cape Town, but I think usually the shootings happen in other parts of Cape Town because of the drugs and the gangs and their affiliates. Would something like that play any role at all in the decision making, or is that just conjecture?
SPEAKER_00:I would I would say it's almost certainly conjecture. Um so I mean I hadn't heard heard that in that amount of detail, but I'd say um, I mean, just as a as a comparison, the one year at two oceans, um, there's a a township in uh as you approach Hart Bay, um and approach um uh I think it's coming down from yeah, it's it's after Chapman's Peak as you as you're coming down, and there was threats of violence there, um, and they rerouted at I I know they had like crisis meetings and stuff like that, and they made like an 11th hour to go over a copse of ech. Now obviously they've got that they've already run over a copse of ech before because you've had Chapman's Peak rockfalls and things like that, but but I I think it you know isolated things like that I don't think would have. Um I did ask the question uh as well just to you know to take deal with the conspiracy ones, and I was told an emphatic no. And I've had no information contrary to that. Um I think what would be very interesting to see would be the the minutes of the meetings that were held because they you know in terms of the cancellation um and also in the six days prior. Yeah, my what the the kind of the smoking gun, if you if you like, is that uh the the incorrect uh material on the banners was used. So you supposed to use air tech banners in Cape Town. Uh pretty tragically, about 10 years ago at a Lincoln Park concert, the uh structural engineer signed off the scaffolding. After the sign-off, they put up banners and they were non-they didn't have uh air or mesh in them. And the um people waiting, I think, to actually enter the concert, it collapsed on top of them. Uh a number of people hospitalized and one lady died. And since then, all outdoor has had to have this air tech, um, so this mesh so that the the the wind can go through. They used a type of material called polytool, which is non-porous. So basically, it's not recommended for outdoor usage because it will act like a sail in terms of the wind. And you know, that definitely played a role. Uh I let's just say that's a very so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if you go down to it, okay, like of course we're not getting down to it, but if you go down to it, this is uh probably a process where people submitted 10 because what they do is they tender this out to a group of people, and whoever supplied that process was maybe not knowledgeable enough of what was needed or that kind of a situation. How do I put it into it? I'm not quite sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so so so it could be it could be that. I mean, it could be someone not knowledgeable who put in the incorrect order. Having said that, almost certainly people would have known who saw it straight away to say, hang on a minute, this is not um this is yeah, this is against uh you know sort of the the regulations and standards. Um the so this is pure conjecture, but the polytool which was used is printed much higher resolution, so it looks much nicer. But obviously, for yeah, so so one of the questions is did was the choice made to go for form over function? Um I would imagine that the city's officials advised the race organizers. If they advised them and the organizers said we'll be going ahead anyway with it, you know, and then the wind came up, you can't fault this the the the the city officials for then saying, Listen, we told you guys, you know, now it's now the winds come up and it's damaged the structures, we're gonna we, you know, we we we have to pull the plug. Obviously, if the city officials saw it and didn't say anything, then that would be a different kettle of fish. But um, you know, without actually seeing the meeting minutes, uh, you you know it would be conjecture as to which way which way around it went.
SPEAKER_01:Um wow, it is conjecture, but I think I think for me it it can kind of make sense why cancelling the race would have been the right decision to make, given the history, given the material, given the risk attached to it. Then the risk would have definitely been quite high in that instance. I I can sort of see it kind of makes sense to me now because I couldn't figure out in my mind, I try to think of so many uh possibilities, but I couldn't figure out. Uh wow, okay, so interesting. Thank you so much for the information. Wow. Okay, so I think that's Cape Town. That's it. We're done. Uh I would ask for book recommendations, but you've already given me some. I don't know if you have any nuance to give to our listeners.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I don't. I haven't actually I hardly so to be honest, I hardly read any running books.
SPEAKER_01:It's fine, even if it's not a running one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Even if it's not a running one, it's fine. Just trying to think what I've read recently, which is or I can give you an escape and you can give me a TV series. Maybe something you've watched with your wife recently.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so yeah, so at the moment, um uh watching sort of with with my wife and the youngest daughter the current season of Only Murders in the Building. So I really really enjoy that. You know, it's nice, lighthearted, and fun. You know, kind of uh yeah, it's got uh um you know, sort of pokes a lot of doesn't take itself too seriously, pokes a lot of fun and and stuff. So and obviously a great ensemble cast of you know all sorts of people who you know come out of the woodwork, you know, actors and actresses you haven't seen in ages. So enjoying that. And then my wife and I are busy watching uh we just actually finished season two of the of The Boys, um, which I find quite interesting because obviously there's lots of parallels to current politics, uh particularly in the US, I think. I haven't watched it. It definitely seems to be in the forefront, yeah. So it's sort of like about bad superheroes and how manipulation and and stuff like that and false patriotism, and uh anyway, it's uh so it's uh yeah, it's I've I've uh yeah, quite really really enjoyed that. It's sort of a very different take on the superhero genre. Um, and yeah, obviously I I I assume that the the creators or the and the script writers took a lot of inspiration from yeah recent political events as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, thank you. I appreciate those. Those are good recommendations, and then what's up for the steward for the rest of the year in terms of running?
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah, hopefully uh still a few marathons. Um there's quite a quite a busy uh November, so I've got uh the jackaranda next week, and then I'm gonna go run a marathon in the Waterburg the week thereafter, and then probably a marathon in Kimberley after that, and then it's the wetter marathon. And a good friend of mine, Julian Carp, um will hopefully will he will be doing his thousandth marathon. So he'll be the first South African to complete a thousand and he only counts road marathons. He doesn't he doesn't even count his unlike three peaks and stuff like that in Cape Town, and he doesn't count them because he says they're not if he only counts official, so he does count as ultras as well. So, like comrades, he counts as like one for every comrade, but it'll be yeah, he's going for a thousand. So yeah, that's gonna be very, very special.
SPEAKER_01:Which one is gonna be his thousandth this November or December?
SPEAKER_00:Uh Soweto. So he's he's picked uh he's been set on uh nine nine nine actually since May, but he wanted to do a marathon that's of significance to him. Um so which so he picked Soweto to do as his thousandth. Um so yeah, no, it should be a great day. I'm sure you'll get a lot of support along the route as well. Um, yeah, I mean it's it's incredible. I mean, there's no ways I'm I will ever get close to a thousand uh marathons.
SPEAKER_01:But you I think you might get there though.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's it's too I've done the math, it's not uh so you to to get there, you've got to run two marathons a weekend. So that's what he's done for like a long number of years. He'll run a marathon Saturday and a marathon Sunday, like you know, every weekend of the year when he can. So wow, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:A thousand is a lot, that's true.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, yeah. I like I like to run my marathon on Saturday, and then I can drink beer on Sunday. That's my that's my running plan.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Hopefully, when I come to Joburg, we can run together.
SPEAKER_00:I'm actually leaving that would be fantastic, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm actually leaving uh the land of the rising sun and coming back to Africa.
SPEAKER_00:So okay, okay, great. No, no, please definitely be great. Great to do a run together.
SPEAKER_01:This is a thought that I had as you were talking about Cape Town and everything that we're talking about. It kind of left my mind and it's come back now. So the Japanese obviously we know them for being very meticulous. Like if they have a race three days before the race, they'll send out an announcement. We have checked the weather, the weather is like this. We will hold the race. The night before the race, they will send out another announcement to everyone. So everyone knows the race. Might happen, it might not happen, but they will keep repeating and double checking because they have earthquakes and tsunamis and things like that. So for them, they understand how important it is to structure everything against natural disasters. So of course we can't import the talent, but maybe if we can invite a Japanese kind of minded designer to just work with the Cape Town Marathon team, maybe that would be a different perspective of looking at things that might help a little.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably a greater a great example of diversity of thought. You know, a lot of people in South Africa they see diversity as being purely skin colour, but actually diversity of upbringing and socio-economic status and all of that. And I think that's maybe you you tend to you tend to get a lot of like-minded people, let's just say that's what I often see in race organization, so that they're all coming with the same frame of reference where actually it's good to have those differences of uh opinions and that you know, sort of you know, particularly I think of that meticulous, you know, almost that okay, well, what's you know, pessimistic, worst case, devil's advocate kind of outlook to keep everyone honest. It's like you know, because things can and do do happen. Um, I mean, it's interesting enough, you mentioned that you know, with the weather and the reports, um, you know, you had reports of high wind from well over a week beforehand. So it wasn't like the high wind took anyone by surprise. It was there. I mean, people I remember people commenting on it, you know, on WhatsApp groups beforehand, and and when after I published the article on looking into the decision, a few people actually shared with me there that they'd actually screencapped the weather condition like six days before and so on. And yeah, so it was expected, it wasn't out of the ordinary. It was, you know, everyone should have known what was coming and then planned accordingly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Diversity, diversity, it's interesting. Yeah, thanks very much, Stuart. Enjoy your Sunday.
SPEAKER_00:Great, thanks. You two, Linda. Okay, always great to chat.
SPEAKER_01:You too. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. To support the show, please follow us on Instagram at The Running Voyager, or please leave a rating and review on iTunes or Spotify. It doesn't take much, but it means a lot. Here's two week full of great adventure. Cheers.
