Join Zuha with special guest Roshi Wagley, a student accessibility advisor at the University of Guelph and an Occupational Therapist by profession, to discuss the nuances of navigating the professional world as a person of disability.
Join Zuha with special guest Roshi Wagley, a student accessibility advisor at the University of Guelph and an Occupational Therapist by profession, to discuss the nuances of navigating the professional world as a person of disability.
Zuha 0:15
Hi everyone! Welcome back to Get With the Grove! My name is Zuha and I am a Youth Ambassador at the U of G site. I am joined with Roshi Wagely to discuss the topic of navigating the workplace or a professional setting as a person of disability. Roshi, would you like to give us a brief introduction of yourself?
Roshi 0:33
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me today. My name is Roshi and I currently work at the Student Accessibility Services as an accessibility advisor. And in my role, I advise students and support around the academic accommodations.
Zuha 0:50
Amazing. Thank you so much. To begin Roshi, what does disability in your professional opinion mean?
Roshi 0:56
I would start off by saying that I am an Occupational Therapist. So within the occupational therapy lens, when I'm working with my clients, patients or students, I see disability as something that might impact your ability to participate in activities that matter to you. Within the context of University as a University student, maybe your disability might impact your ability to take courses, for example.
Zuha 1:24
That's perfect. Thank you. To just begin with our questions about disability in the context of the workplace and a professional setting, what do folks with disability need to consider before applying for a job?
Roshi 1:38
I think there are a few things that folks should consider before applying for a job, one of the things I think that's really important is for folks to have a good understanding of their disabilities, If possible, and you know, really thinking about how does my disability affect me? So, some of the questions I might want to think about would be, do I have a disability that makes it hard for me to wake up in the morning? Do I have a disability that causes symptom flare ups? And if they do, what does that look like? Right? And how does that affect me throughout the day? Do I have a disability that requires me to take medication, and it might affect my productivity, In the afternoon, for example? And some of the other questions for some folks might be, you know, do I have a disability that makes it hard for me to type two hours at a time? Or do I have a disability that makes it challenging for me to sit for eight hours at a time, right. And I think that's the first piece. And the second piece is when you're thinking about applying for a job, especially if you're going to be looking at the job posting, really breaking down that job posting and looking at the components of it, some of the job responsibility or duties essential requirements that there might be and looking at how that might interact with your disability, right. So, for example, if I have a disability that makes it difficult for me to stay seated for eight hours at a time, because I have chronic back pain. And now I've got a job that I really, really like. And it looks interesting, but one of the requirements is that I do have to sit at a desk for eight hours, right? So, that is going to be something that I'm going to have to make a note off because that is going to directly interact with my disability and how it impacts me. And the other thing that folks may want to think about, even before they even apply for a job is am I going to need accommodations for the job interview, right? And what is that going to look like? Because sometimes from the time you apply for a job, to when you get that interview can be very fast. So, know am I going to need those accommodations for the job interview, and what is that going to look like. The last thing that I want to highlight that folks may want to think about, and this is in general, I think a lot of folks with disability consider and think about is do I do I want to disclose about my disability. If I get a job. When do I do it? How do I do it? Will I need accommodations or that kind of thing.
Zuha 4:16
Okay, amazing. I think you've covered a lot of important things regarding folks that you know, are navigating a disability while working and or navigating a professional setting. I think you've touched on several important topics like when to disclose if it's necessary to disclose or what to consider while reviewing a job posting. To kind of piggyback off of that, how and when do you think it is appropriate to disclose a disability?
Roshi 4:45
That's a really good question. And I think that is something a lot of people and folks think about. And when it comes to the when piece of when I would want to disclose a disability it really depends on the person, what their needs and comfort levels are right. So, different people may decide to disclose it at different stages, for example. So, when you're looking at the initial stage of applying for a job and you're working on the resume and the cover letter, some folks may choose to disclose it during this this point, maybe because the employer is looking to hire diverse employees, or maybe you're even open to talking about your disability, right. But keeping this in mind, though, you may still need to have that formal discussion with your employer before putting the accommodations in place. The other time that folks may decide to disclose a disability or may consider it would be maybe before the interview. So, you might maybe choose this option, if you need accommodations or changes made at the workplace. So this option, then gives the employer to think about your disability at work and kind of figure out how are they going to support you during the interview, if you do need those accommodations, and it helps you to talk about your disability, right. And if they take it well, you may feel more relaxed going into the interview and knowing that your workplace or employer is inclusive. Although not ideal is that someone may think that you're not going to be good at the job, whether or not that's actually true. And that's something to consider as well, some folks may choose to disclose their disability during the interview phase, because especially if you are wanting those accommodations, you can then kind of answer questions and discuss why you would be a good employee. And others may choose to disclose their disability after they get the job. So there are really different stages that which folks may choose to disclose their disability depending on what makes sense for them how comfortable they feel talking about a disability, and their comfort levels, like I mentioned. And how I kind of briefly touched upon when you may want to disclose a disability. The other piece, then now, it comes hand in hand, how do you have that conversation, right? Which is, which can seem very daunting, because it's not always easy to have that conversation with your employer. So, it may be helpful for you to, you know, for folks to talk about the options, or the decisions with someone that you trust. Or if you don't have someone that you trust, you can talk to, reflect on some of the things that I will briefly touch upon. And some of these things you may want to kind of ponder about and reflect on when thinking how do I really want to disclose my disability, it's something that I recommend to folks and also do it myself is to write down what you would want to say, and that's really going to help you be very clear, open and honest. And to have that conversation, talking about what you might need and what will help you. Kind of going back on that example that I was giving about if I have chronic back pain, and my workplace requires me to sit but I can't sit trying to anticipate what accommodations would I possibly need to do my best at the job. And that really helps in having that conversation with the employer so they can understand what accommodations, you will need to do the job to the best of your ability, right. And it's also about really staying positive. And having that very brief, clear and focused conversation with the employer.
Zuha 8:23
In terms of disclosing your disability with your employer, could this trigger a ablest response from employers? And how do you navigate that?
Roshi 8:34
I think that that's a really good question and something that is hard to navigate. Because even though we would like workplaces and spaces to be inclusive, the reality is that they aren't. And ableism is as real as any other isms. Right so, and then we are constantly managing with these, or dealing or facing ableist perspectives and ableist views. Once you've disclosed, you feel like that your employer is ableist and let's say they don't want to hire you because of your disability, or they don't want to give you those accommodations that you're going to need to do the job to the best of your abilities. You have options, you always have options, right. And one of the ways, that can be challenging for some folks is the legal route, right. So, that's always an option, obviously doesn't work for everybody. But that's one of the options. And the other thing is just knowing about your rights as a person with disabilities, I mean, all employers are required or have the duty to accommodate by law. The legal jargon a little bit is that there's a duty to accommodate until the point of undue hardship. So, for example, let's say you're asking for an accommodation, right and the employer then kind of says that okay, you know what, this is going to cost the company too much money by giving you accommodations, if it's going to put the company out of business, or if they have no outside source of funding to help pay for the accommodation, or your accommodation might cause health and safety risks to others. So these are the three things of that undue hardship. So if they cannot prove those three things, and legally, they have that duty to accommodate, and they should be accommodating you.
Zuha 10:21
Right. That is really insightful for our listeners, because it is really important. And it is really imperative that we highlight that folks with disabilities do have rights in the legal setting, as well as in the workplace setting. Now, let's say an individual with a disability is hired and they are met with ableism by their peers, how would you say in your professional opinion that they should navigate this?
Roshi 10:49
That again, is, is a really good question. And it's a reality for a lot of folks with disability. Right? And then this kind of goes hand in hand with what we talked about earlier, making that decision to disclose who to disclose when to disclose and what are the risks going to be for me, if I choose to disclose. I just want to just go back to the word ableism. Just to kind of highlight for folks who are listening that the roots of ableism really lies in the fact that people with a disability are seen as being inferior, right, than those who are able bodied. It's not true, but that's where this ableism comes from. Right? And so usually, when you're facing with ableism, or any other isms really, you know, one of the paths that a lot of folks take is advocating for themselves, right advocating for their rights, and their needs and raising awareness. And in this case, educating about accessibility. Obviously, if you're having a specific situation with your coworker, hopefully you can speak to your manager. But again, keeping in mind that do you feel safe? Do you have that safe relationship with your manager to have that conversation? If it's not that person, then maybe you go to the HR, right? Because HR handles these kinds of situations?
Zuha 12:07
Is there anything else pertaining to navigating a disability in the workplace or a professional setting that you would like our listeners to know about?
Roshi 12:15
I just wanted to highlight, I want, there's a couple of things that I wanted to mention before we finish. And I wanted to go back to the ableism piece of how can folks address ableism in general, in the workplace. I just wanted to add a little bit more to what I was mentioning earlier. I know I said advocate, advocating and raising awareness and that education piece about accessibility. But I do want to highlight and I recognize that how exhausting advocating can be for folks. It's very, it's exhausting, and it's tiring. And you know, you're having to do it all the time, right. So I just wanted to highlight some of the other ways to fight or address ableism that may not necessarily be direct advocacy all the time, because it can be very burdening, burdening for folks. So one of the things again, this really comes back to the relationship that you have with your coworkers or your manager. So, if you do have someone that you work with that you feel safe to talk about your disability, it can be an opportunity if you feel safe to disclose, opportunity to create that allyship and the solidarity. So someone who does not have a disability can then advocate on your behalf to really reduce that advocacy burden, because it can be a burden, right? You're constantly doing it all the time. And the other thing that I would really like folks to consider if they're able to and if they have the capacity to do, obviously depends on the person and what they're able to take on, is kind of taking on, if possible, taking on that leadership, little bit or like looking into your company on what is available. So if your company or an organization has, let's say, an employee group for folks with disability, joining that group, if that doesn't exist, you know, can you create one, right. Really creating that safe space for folks with disability to come and talk about their shared living experiences, right, because no one understands it better than the ones who have had those shared living experiences. So that is something that I would suggest folks also have in the back of their mind. I know not everybody has the capacity, will have the ability or whatever it might be. The fact is you may not be able to but just kind of get to think about what else can be done. that may not be direct advocacy, all the time. And while these are some of the things I highlighted, I really really want to emphasize as a disability professional and with my own personal experiences, I really want to emphasize for folks listening, whether you have a disability or not today that addressing ableism really takes all of us right. That burden of that change work should not just be on folks with disability. It really, it needs to be a really collaborative work, especially if it's in the workplace, from the leaders and the managers and definitely the employees who do not have a disability to have a conversation. And recognize that it's an area that needs to be worked on and addressed directly. And I really want folks to remember that as well, because it can definitely be very hard advocating all the time, in addition to what I mentioned about little tips and tricks on how to address ableism in the workplace. The other thing that I wanted to highlight that kind of didn't come up today, and I really would like folks to think about, or know is that usually, in terms of disclosing your disability to an employer, whether or not that's necessary. Usually, if you need an accommodation disclosure, you're going to need to disclose your needs. So employers will usually have their forms, that they would ask you to get it completed by your doctor or a health professional. And while disclosing a disability may or may not be necessary, but outlining your needs will be if you need that accommodation. But again, I want to highlight that having said that, it is up to you to choose when and how you will talk about your disability, how much you want to disclose. And all the while really recognize that it's never an easy conversation if you've had certain experiences and what's right for one person may not be right for the other person. But also what works once may not work again, I think I would like folks to remember that it's a very flexible process. And that might change over time. And it all depends, it all depends and really, I should have said this in the beginning, it depends on the specific disability, and your needs. And every disability is different, right. And even if you have two people with the same disability, you're not going to have that same need. So it's really about the specialized accommodation that you might need to do your job to the best of your abilities. And the last thing, I know I'm talking a lot, but the last thing I wanted to highlight is as part of, at least for me, as part of when I'm applying for a job, I'll usually go on their website and kind of learn about the mission and values and statements and things like that. And what I would really encourage folks to do is in addition to that to look at the accessibility statement of the company, or the organization that you're applying for, because it'll just give you a good understanding of what is their view of accessibility? Are they already doing something to make the workplace inclusive? Or are they not, it just gives you, you have some idea going into that interview, and just in terms of even framing, how are you going to have the conversation or are they going to be more likely to understand or what's going on. Just to give you more context. So just wanted to add that bit.
Zuha 12:35
Amazing, that's really insightful and great information for our listeners. I just also want to highlight that, as you mentioned, it is really important for community members and different folks within the workplace or within school settings to advocate about disabilities or how to show allyship for our peers who have a disability, I think it's really important to recognize that that is what The Grove Hubs is doing facilitating these podcasts, these discussions with community professionals to discuss these topics and how to address these issues in our communities and within our workplaces, and also in our school settings. I just want to say thank you for joining me Roshi, and sharing your professional opinion on this topic. Is there anything you would like to add or anything you want to our listeners to know that we missed?
Roshi 17:31
I wanted to thank you for having me. And I think I talked a lot and I think I tried to touch upon different areas.
Zuha 17:36
I really appreciate everything that you've mentioned. And I really appreciate all the information that you had that you were able to share with us. I think it's all really important and all really imperative for our listeners to be made aware of. I also want to thank our listeners today for joining in. Please don't forget to tune in next month for our next episode. Also, please check out our website at thegrovehubs.ca. For more information about different topics, and our allyship guides specifically that do highlight and go further into the topic of disability and how to be a great ally. Also, please check out our Instagram @thegrovehubs.uofg and give us a follow and to just stay up to date about information about The Grove Hubs, specifically the U of G site and how to access our resources and other services.