Just How Long Is This Gonna Take?

The question of how long does it take before I can consider myself to be clean or sober gets answered.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

It's time again for Doc Jock, your addiction lifeguard podcast. I am Dr. Jock DeBerker, a psychologist, licensed professional counselor, and addiction specialist. If you are suffering from addiction, misery, trauma, whatever it is, I'm here to help. If you're in search of help to try to get your life back together, join me here at Doc Jock, your addiction lifeguard, the addiction recovery podcast. I wanted to be real clear about what this podcast is intended for. It is intended for entertainment and informational purposes but not considered help. If you actually need real help and you're in need of help, Please seek that out. If you're in dire need of help, you can go to your nearest emergency room or you can check into a rehab center or call a counselor like me and talk about your problems and work through them. But don't rely on a podcast to be that form of help. It's not. It's just a podcast. It's for entertainment and information only. So let's keep it in that light. All right. Have a good time. Learn something and then get the real help that you need from a professional.

UNKNOWN: 1:19

So,

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

So you're working on recovery. You've been working on it for a while. And I guess the question you might have is, so how long is it going to take for me to get actually clean and sober? And that's a question that's a really good question, especially if you're working really hard at it because it seems like it should be easy to stop or it seems like it could be very difficult because it takes forever. And if you're in the position of it's easy, you're probably confused. And if you think it's never going to, you're never going to get there, it's going to take forever. It's because you're delusional. You will get there. It's not going to take forever, but it's not going to be a short amount of time. And the question of how long is it actually going to take? It really kind of depends. I mean, I hate to give you that as an answer. It depends. There are so many variables that are in included in this you know I've known people that have taken years to get there literally you know five ten years if they start from the first time they really tried to attempt recovery and I know people who have taken a year to two years there's never really much going on in somebody's head if they think that it takes less time than that and Clinically, we consider, and I've talked about this many times in these podcasts, it takes a year and a half to two years clinically before you can consider yourself sober or clean. And that seems like an incredibly long time, especially for somebody who's been working on it for that year and a half to two years. But then again, it may take longer than that. I had a guest on an early podcast that I did, Carrie Sue, and she talked about this. the years that it took for her to get actually there and the things that happened to her. Her first addiction was heroin, and she kicked that by going to the recovery treatment program, the residential program of Scientology in Los Angeles, which might seem absurd, and it was to her, too. But it worked for the heroin, but she immediately switched to alcohol. And I worked with her for years to get there. And she did get there eventually. She's been clean and sober now for quite a while. And she's happier than she's ever been, she says. And I believe her. And I see it. But a year and a half to two years, yeah. But what if it takes longer than that? Does that mean that you've failed at your recovery? No, it doesn't mean that at all. If it takes less time than that, does it mean that you're not going to be successful? No, not at all. I know somebody who I was very close to who spent a lot of years as an alcoholic. I'm going to say probably 20 years, 25 years, maybe longer. And she got to that end point in her alcoholism. And she literally, quite literally, turned herself over to God. And she got baptized and she hasn't had a drink since. And it's been five years now. some would say, oh, well, then she's probably going to fall into the category of a dry drunk. Well, possibly so. But in talking to her, I would have to say, probably not. And the things that drove her to that, I mean, she has an example of an alcoholic mother. She has an insane father who is deceased, but a crazy father. And She was influenced by a lot of her mom's bad behavior and the people that her mom surrounded herself with and the multiple marriages with drug addicts and drug dealers and alcoholics and whatever. So she had a lot of examples of that in her life, and that shaped and changed her viewpoint of addiction. Now, she became an alcoholic, yes, and she had an alcoholic spouse, but her conversion to Christianity changed. from where she was, which was to be the opposite of a Christian, just complete atheist, really kind of shaped and changed her path to recovery. But that doesn't mean that it's not real recovery. It's really kind of where your heart and where your head is at. So the question of how long is it going to take? It takes as long as it takes. Some people will go out and, as we say in the rooms, go out and pick up and experiment repeatedly sometimes. Sometimes it's once or twice. So they're going to go experiment with, can I be still using my drug of choice and be like a quote-unquote normal person? Well, you know what? That's going to affect their life. attempt at getting sober and clean because they're going to be continually bargaining with themselves and thinking that they can get there. And some of us do that. You know, we just go out and continually experiment. It may go on for years. There is also the person that has what I term an accident. And that's where they go out and drink once or use their drug of choice once and for like a day. Or two days. And I don't consider that a relapse. I consider that an accident. They fell into something. They usually come in reporting that they felt really terrible and they used something. And then after they use, they feel terrible about how they feel when they use. And so for me, that accident is part of the learning curve in recovery. Now, I know in the rooms, those of you who are in the NAAA rooms, you would consider that a relapse. And you've got to start the clock over again and get that white chip, that 24-hour chip. Well, true. Okay, I'll go with that. But in my practice, I don't consider that a relapse. Now, if it goes on for weeks, yeah, no, we're in relapse territory. You need further help. So that's going to add to the length of time for your recovery if you have a relapse. If you have an accident, it's part of the recovery process. I'm not condoning it. I'm not saying it's okay. But it doesn't really... detract from the work that you did to get to that place where you feel horrible about how you feel when you're using. So I don't really consider that to add to the problem of recovery. It doesn't hinder it. It doesn't start the clock over again, at least in my practice. But you do need to figure out what's going on when you're using. So the length of time that it takes you to get into where you can say I'm clean or I'm sober or both is as long as it takes. So if you are out there and you are really struggling, perhaps you've gone through multiple residential treatments or you've gone to IOP, multiple times you've been in and out of the rooms a lot or you know whatever and you're struggling to get there and it seems like it you know it's been maybe going on for two or three years man you're hanging in there right so you're you're trying it's just it's taking a long time so if you look at that and you say oh well I'm a complete failure because it's been three years I've been working on recovery it's not a failure it's It is part of your process and everybody is unique in their process of recovery. It's just kind of the deal. If somebody has been drinking, let's say, for 17 years, 20 years, 25 years at the level of alcoholic, you know, it's going to take some time to get into recovery. I've had multiple cases over the years of people that come to me, and they're in their 60s, late 60s, early 70s, and they've been drinking for 40 years, sometimes 50 years. Well, how long is it going to take that person to get sober? What's motivating you? to get there. It's what is around you. What are you willing to participate in to get into your recovery? And how much effort or work are you going to put into that recovery? That determines how long it takes. But the 50 years or the 40 years or the 20 years that you spent as an actively engaged alcoholic or drug addict, is going to play into how long that takes. So let's start with how about be patient. Be kind. Be patient with yourself. Be, I don't know, caring. Considerate for what you're trying to overcome. there's a lot of resistance. There's a lot of arrogance. We have talked about that in many of the podcasts that I've done. And yeah, that's certainly a contributing factor to the length of time. It takes how much arrogance you engage in, but that when you break that, when you, sorry, when you get to that breaking point and you are like, I can't do this anymore. For me, that's really when I start the clock. Now I've, worked with people who have been working on working. I'm using air quotes here on recovery for, you know, on and off for five, six, seven years. They're not going to get there until they actually say, I can't do this anymore. I don't, I don't know what to do, but I know I can't do this, this being getting high or drunk, anymore. And that really is when it starts. You could have gone through all the, you know, oh, I go to meetings. Oh, I got a sponsor, blah, blah, blah. I'm not really working on anything. I'm going through the motions because somebody wants me to. Or I'm fake sober. I'm in the rooms, but I'm using. There are people that do that. And they're not really working on sobriety. So I don't count that as time that they've worked on it. They're just pretending. It's fake sobriety. It's fake clean. When you actually say, look, I can't do this anymore. I'm done. I surrender. Start the clock. Like that's when you start. So you could have been working on it in a fake way for years, but never really gotten to that point. And then when you get to that point, it's like you're on your knees. You're done. You're not standing up in the rooms. You're on your knees in the room. You actually have just given up. You surrender to that recovery. And when you get to that point, that's really when you can consider yourself working on it. And again, at that point, it could have been five years, but the clock started, like I said, for me, when they get to that point. So now it's a year. And a year later, that person is radically different. And I do treat those people. I have those people that I've walked through recovery who came in with, I'm done. And I'm so frustrated. I've been to so many counselors who just ignore when I say that I have addiction. They don't know what to do with it. I've been to groups. I've been to IOP where it's just a bunch of people that are complaining or I don't even know what the purpose of this is. They've been to rehabs. They were kind of sort of seeking the help, but maybe they went to the wrong place. They didn't connect with it. It wasn't good for them. It didn't fit their need. It didn't fit them, their personality, their temperament. Maybe it was people that were too harsh, too overbearing. There's a methodology that some AA groups will follow that's old school. You know, we call it old school. They're smoking in the rooms. They're drinking coffee. It's a bunch of old timers. And they're just grousing and grumbling about how, you know, if you quit going to meetings, you're going to relapse for sure. So you've got to keep coming in the rooms. You know, there's that old school group. And that's great because that really does work for some people, you know. That would probably work for me. Um, if I needed it because I need somebody just beating on me to get me there because I'm a hard head and pretty stubborn and headstrong and I'm pretty smart. So I could, you know, I can out Fox you in a meeting. But for somebody who was heavily traumatized with maybe an abusive father or mother, they were getting beaten as a child, verbally assaulted, that probably wouldn't work real well, right? Because it's going to be re-traumatizing. So you've got to find a meeting. Some person walks in there and they're traumatized and they hear that. They're like, oh, man, I'm out of here, right? And so then they might think, oh, that's what meetings are. So I'm not going back. And maybe they don't go back for a year or two until they come along and they meet somebody like me who says, no, man, you've got to find a different meeting. Go to different meetings. Go to three or four different meetings in different locations before you give me an opinion about AA. So the person who runs into that, it may take them longer. because they got scared away from NA or AA. Maybe they went to a place where, and this happens, maybe they went to a place where there's meetings, and there was a lot of like, There are a lot of games being played and a lot of head games and things that were undermining people. There's a lot of like 13 steppers who were out there cruising for chicks or guys or hookups and drugs and whatever. And that's what they ran into in a meeting. And that's going to certainly change the amount of time it takes you to get into recovery because you're going to shy away from the rooms. And that's a shame when that happens. But if that ever happens to you, you have to get out of that and go to another meetings Trust me, there are a lot of good meetings out there. There are a lot of bad ones, too. But there's also the fit, your personality. Maybe you're a little more shy. Maybe you're a little more withdrawn. Maybe you're a little more apprehensive. Maybe you're scared. And you need a meeting where they're welcoming. So all these things factor into how long it takes you. Maybe you're in a situation where you're in a relationship with somebody who's also an addict, and now you've got this huge problem of undermining your own recovery. Or maybe they're saying, oh, I'm going to participate with you, and then they get in there and they start playing head games with you. I've had that happen, and it's sad. Maybe your addiction is so linked to your relationship that the only way you're going to get into recovery is to actually get away from the person that you've been with for years, perhaps years. And it's a sad thing because now you've got the ending of a relationship, and that's grieving, and then you've got your own chaotic life, and maybe you've lost something. You know, that got to beside your relationship. But you've lost something else that forced you into into recovery. You lost your job. You know, if you're a cop, you're on you're on the job. And they say, hey, look, you can't be a cop unless you. going to rehab and you got to start working on sobriety because and you're under the watchful eye of that or you work for the you know Amtrak or one of the trains companies shipping companies and they say you can't come back and tell you okay so you got this going on and now you realize in the process I got to end my relationship because it's all based on one thing and that is getting high or getting drunk and when you confront that loved one with this isn't going to work you have to get into recovery with me or it's not going to work and they say no and now you got to end that relationship could be you're married to the person could be living with them could been just you've just been with them for a long time maybe it's a family member maybe it's your parents or your uh your siblings that you have these close relationships with but now you got to end it right you can't reconcile that with your addiction That will certainly play into the length of time that it takes you to get into recovery because now you've got all this emotional turmoil going on and that's a problem. So what are the factors? What are the factors that are going to play into you working on your recovery and what's it going to take to get there? I heard, and I think I said this in the last podcast, I'm not sure, but you know Ben Affleck's thing about you know the only real cure for addiction is suffering and you know but it can also end your recovery and so the suffering that you go through when you end your addiction or towards the end of your addiction is when you've lost something right now in the process of working on your recovery you have to end a relationship it's sad and you need continued support for that and Those of you who are in relationships where the person that you're with is the addict and you're just kind of observing them going through this, what are you contributing to their recovery? That's the perspective that you have to have. So just be aware of that. If you're listening to this and your loved one is the one that's got the addiction, Just pay attention to that. I'll tell you, there's another thing that contributes to your recovery, and that is how you see yourself. Many people, when they start working on recovery, they feel stigmatized and they feel shamed. You know, because people are looking at them going, oh, you know, you got this addiction and it's a problem and you're not trustworthy or whatever. But the other part of it is you look at yourself as being dysfunctional and not, you know, broken. And you're and so you self stigmatize and. You know, that's a real problem for you. That's a real problem in recovery. Because if you don't think of yourself in a compassionate way, then it's going to make it so that it's very difficult for you to actually get into recovery. So when you're working on recovery, you have to shift your thinking. You have to shift your thinking from, I'm bad, I'm not worthy, this is a problem for me because I failed. Self-stigmatization. Self-stigmatizing thinking, that's what I'm trying to say, is very undermining to your recovery. If you were not worthy of consideration, nobody would bother with you. And there are people out there, it's interesting, that's the power of AA and NA, is the working with sponsors. Everybody that's in an addictive trap, in the cycle of addiction, has taken hold. It's not because they're bad people. It's because their brain is telling them, I am uncomfortable. Please do something. So using your drug of choice is the thing you do. That doesn't make you a bad person. And I'm not saying that there aren't bad people who have addiction. Of course there are. Jails are full of them. Prisons are full of them. People who are psychotic or they're sociopathic and they just harm people. There are some bad people out there, okay? Don't get me wrong. But just because you're an addict doesn't make you a bad person. It makes you have a condition that is attacking you. And so you have to work on that condition. So if we can, as a group of people, addicts, if we can start to view ourselves as not being... dysfunctional and problematic, we would get further in our recovery than if we self-stigmatize and believe that we're not worthy of consideration or care. It's interesting when I ask an addict, hey man, what about the people in the rooms? They always talk about the people in the rooms with such compassion and such care about, man, that person was really, they're in a really bad place. They need help, and they're hurting. Or, wow, I heard that person's story in IOP, and wow, man, they really overcame a lot. Their family, at least I'm not like them. Because that's really bad. And they suffered. And then that same person, when they describe their own story, they think of it as like, I failed, I'm a failure, I'm a bad person, I did these horrible things. they don't show the same level of compassion to themselves as they feel for other people in the rooms. And I always find that quite interesting because when I tell them that and I give them the examples, like you just told, tell me the worst story you heard in your recovery attempt, like whether it was in rehab or whatever, tell me the worst story that you heard. And they tell me the story. And I said, what, when you hear that story, what does that make you think about that person? And they're like, oh man, that was just so, It just breaks my heart to hear that story. They were molested over and over again by their dad, or they were beaten by their mom. It's just like, wow, it just breaks my heart when I hear that. And I'm like, okay, now tell me your worst story. Tell me the worst thing that happened to you. And they tell me and I repeat what I do is I repeat exactly what they said to me about the other person. I'm like, wow, that just breaks my heart that you're telling me that story. It's so sad. I can't imagine how horrible that must have been for you. Same words they use to describe the person that they heard that person's bad story. I repeat it back to them and I can see them like feel it. It's so interesting. And I'm like, you know, you said the same thing about the person who told you their bad story, your story is bad too. And it deserves the same level of empathy and consideration. You know that, right? And it's like a light bulb goes off. They're like, I never really thought of it that way. And I'm like, yeah, because you're the person telling the story. So you've dissociated from it. You've disconnected from it. You think it is because you're a bad person. It's not because you're a bad person. but your addiction is what's killing you. And so the length of time it takes for that person to get from understanding that they just can't do this anymore, to the point where they can start to be empathetic about their own story, about a year, year and a half. And the shame is now starting to disappear and all the other negative things. But it's about a year and a year and a half before they get there. So how long is it going to take? It's going to take about that long. Well, how long is that? About that long. And that's the answer. So keep working on it. Keep believing that you can get there because you can. Never give up. Never, ever give up. Keep trying and you'll eventually get there. That's this edition of Doc Shock, your addiction lifeguard. But, you know, just do whatever you have to to get into recovery. It's not worth ending your life to save your addiction. That's insanity. So start working on it, will you? Please. And until next time, this is Doc Jacques saying, see ya.