From Courtroom to Cosmic Connection. A Lawyer’s Tale.

When Emma Mulholland stepped away from her established career as a solicitor, she wasn't just leaving a job, she was stepping towards a profound calling. On our latest podcast episode, we share Emma's riveting transition from the structured world of law to the intuitive realm of shamanism. With a narrative that begins rooted in a traditional Irish Catholic upbringing, Emma reveals how the birth of her son and her subsequent shamanic training in 2020 rekindled a spiritual flame that would lead her down an uncharted path. Her story is a testament to the transformative power of pursuing one's passion and illustrates the surprising harmony between legal expertise and shamanic empathy.

Exploring the depths of shamanism, Emma invites us on her personal growth journey, from skepticism to an enlightening spiritual education. She speaks with a candor that makes tangible the abstract concepts of connecting with the land and tapping into earth frequencies. Her experiences weave a rich tapestry that includes training in Yorkshire, connecting with her Irish heritage, and harnessing energy healing practices like Reiki. Emma's insights into the support of loved ones and the tools gained through her journey offer listeners a unique perspective on the intersection of personal development and spiritual practice.

In a world where the digital era has opened the doors to remote working, Emma's foray into energy healing exemplifies the potential for profound connection beyond physical proximity. We discuss the liberating nature of intuitive writing and its role in facilitating individual revelations, offering a glimpse into how a less conventional approach can lead to extraordinary insights. As Emma recounts her intuitive process in seeking a new home and the guidance of her animal allies, we're reminded of the symbiotic relationship between our inner world and the external environment. Her story is not just hers to tell—it's an open invitation to discover the untapped potential within us all, where professional expertise and a spiritual calling can coexist in harmony.

Emma Mulholland
emul1983@gmail.com
@one_spiritual_mother and @_emoftheways_

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 2:30

So welcome everybody to another episode of Farm to the Soul, and today I have a new guest for you, and her name is Emma Mulholland, and so welcome Emma. Thank you for supporting Farm to the Soul.

Speaker 2: 2:45

Thank you for inviting me on. It's an honour, it's a pleasure to have.

Speaker 1: 2:49

You and Emma and I have quite a common background, let's say, because Emma is a lawyer and she's a shamanic practitioner. She's an energy therapist. You do some publishing work as well, don't you, emma? So you have quite a mix of things that you do, but the lawyer and the energy therapist is Matches Mine, which is lovely to meet somebody in the same little room.

Speaker 2: 3:22

Yes, it's fantastic. It's quite novel, but it's fantastic, and I'm sure that there are more of us out there who combine different things and hopefully, by speaking about it more openly, we will encourage other people to be more open about it and embrace all the different hats that they wear and parts of themselves.

Speaker 1: 3:40

So, yeah, absolutely and we were talking with me about why we sort of how we struggle to mix lawyer and energy therapist. I know I've struggled to mix it. I've tried to sort of cross them over over the years but it just doesn't work and why that is. What is that about balance? Is that about trying to balance out the stresses of the legal world, finding techniques at work?

Speaker 2: 4:13

Yeah, I think the spiritual side of things always attracted me from quite a young age and I grew up in quite a relatively strict Irish Catholic family. So my interesting crystals and angels and all that sort of thing just kind of I hid it all under the radar a little bit. Not that it would have been anything awful would have happened, but it just wasn't the done thing. You know family, but I grew up in Manchester and there was a beautiful shop which I think is still there in South Manchester called Healthy Spirit and I used to go there and I'd have Reiki healing with a wonderful lady who I did my level two with, ultimately when I was about 18 years old. So I think I was always slightly older. I can't remember if it was before or after university, but I think spiritual things took a little bit of a back seat when I went off to university to study law and I then cross. I then was called to the bar and I qualified as a barrister back in gosh my numbers aren't great 2005, I think it was.

Speaker 2: 5:18

And it was, though that spiritual side got pulled away for a few years because I think and I don't know if you experienced this it was always there, but I couldn't see a way. As you've mentioned, it was I don't know how this fits. I know that I feel things quite deeply and you know my background is in litigation, so very contentious. I was in court every day for several years and, you know, dealing with some quite upsetting things for people, and I think, looking back now, those empathetic skills that I had and that side of me did creep in, although I didn't realise it at the time and it was only really, I would say it was after the birth of my son that I circled back to spirituality and things opened up for me on a completely different level because, yeah, I went back into legal practice, having taught for a few years, worked remotely for a few years, and then it was 2020 when I just started my shamanic practitioner training.

Speaker 2: 6:24

That it was about gosh. I think that was when we went into lockdown. Is that right? Was it 2020? I was thinking back before and I, just within a couple of months, I ended up quitting my job as a solicitor, which I'd cross qualified. I should have said that a few years before and I never thought I would ever do that. I just couldn't believe it. It was as though as soon as I stepped onto that path more fully, with the shamanic side of things that had been calling to me for a few years, everything just changed in my world, and it's been quite the ride in the past seven years or so for sure, and that's how I ended up doing different things really.

Speaker 1: 7:02

I love the fact that you came so young to it and you were having Reiki at such a young age, because I was actually in my 30s, late 30s. I just had my son when I had my first Reiki and before that I'd never, I think, like you, I liked these things, but I'd never delved deeper into it. So it's lovely to hear as a youngster if you like, and a much older age you came to it.

Speaker 1: 7:29

That's always, I always think. Did I have that inkling at that age? But I can't ever remember really do, except that I went to university, my first degree was in geology and I loved the crystals. So I suppose at that age I was beginning to feel that link. I suppose in a way and great also when you were talking about you know you were using, in a way you use your you know skills, empathy with your clients in law. I find that as well. I end up having all these long conversation with clients who start telling me you know, pouring out their troubles, which is absolutely fine, I don't have a problem, but it's nice that they feel they can. Definitely they can feel that difference, which is interesting as well.

Speaker 2: 8:28

I think it is because just to say that I think, as law is a very I'm trying to think of the right word to describe it, it's hard. It is tough, it can be quite. You know, there are more women in the law now, which is fantastic, but it's as though sensitivity seen as a weakness is sometimes the impression I got in some of the firms that I work for and I felt a little bit like a square pegging around whole.

Speaker 1: 8:55

If that's the right.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I don't know who I've got the expression correct there, but I know you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 8:58

I do know what you mean.

Speaker 2: 8:59

It's one of the way around.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Yeah, I think it's very much full of competition. It's very competitive, and that makes people quite hard. They harden up, don't they? And I think it's full of lots of big egos as well. I'm sure that's in every part of life, but I think in law and that you find more. To be honest, I could say that, having been in law for 34 years. So, yes, it's a very different and, unlike you say, being sensitive is not something that goes in that territory, and I have spoken to you know, some people say to me what do you do? And I tell them and it's like I've no idea what you've just said. It's like you've got foreheads, it's like I've not even read about that, I don't even know what you're talking about, sort of scenario, while others are like very interested oh, you know, yeah, that's interesting, I find that really interesting, etc. So you had that span of people, I suppose. But yeah, it's not. The normal mix is it?

Speaker 2: 10:11

No, it definitely isn't. And for a very long time I actually I used to beat myself up about it and I think to myself you know why? Why am I these two very distinct and very different halves? Yeah, how am I not one or the other? And I was quite embarrassed by it. I suppose because I just didn't understand it.

Speaker 2: 10:33

And you know, now I've completely come full circle with it and a couple of years ago I was diagnosed with them combined type ADHD, and that put a lot of puzzle pieces into place as well, and I've also started to be a bit more compassionate with myself and think well, actually I'm really proud of the fact that I can do these different things and effectively hold people in different ways, whether that's through supporting them with writing a book, whether it's working with students who are training to be solicitors, because that's something I do as well whether it's working in energy you know there are common threads there. It's all supporting people and I know that that, however it shows up in the world, you know, as long as I'm coming from the right place and I think that I am it's a place of integrity, then that's the main thing, surely, isn't it? It's you know you're doing something to help, and I know that that's why I'm, that's why I'm here in this lifetime anyway.

Speaker 2: 11:29

So if it takes a few different forms, then fantastic, lucky me. I'm actually quite blessed to be able to do a few different things and I think I'm quite good at them. So you know, I would have said that a couple of years ago. But it's about treating yourself with kindness and absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:46

Yeah, and that's interesting because I've always been told by people that you hold space and that's what you're talking about, isn't it? Holding space for people and, yeah, just being that support and help with whatever, whatever they're you know whatever they're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 12:05

So that's that's interesting. That's another common thing, emma. Definitely. Maybe that is a common thing. Maybe that's why we are, because I've always tried to mix it to and work out, like you, why, you know, why can't I mix these together, but maybe it is that we're needed, in a harder environment, to hold space for people to just soften it maybe. Yeah, in the way, in our own ways, sort of things. That's what it's about.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree with you, and it's nice that we were at this point now where we can kind of go okay, we are a bit different, but you know, the world will be very dull if we were all the same, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1: 12:45

So absolutely, I would say that People can call me eccentric if they like. I don't mind.

Speaker 2: 12:52

It's a great word. I love that word.

Speaker 1: 12:53

Accentric, yeah, so. So let's talk about your shamanic work as well. So you came to your training. You started that in 2020.

Speaker 2: 13:06

Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2: 13:08

So to kind of explain a little bit how I stepped onto that path, so I got married 10 years ago and wasn't in a wonderful place at that time. I was coming to the end of working for a quite big law firm and I really wasn't very happy. I was having some health issues and feeling quite stressed about getting married and things like that. And then we had our wedding and we went on honeymoon to Nice and I used to read this magazine that sadly no longer in production called Spirit and Destiny magazine. And I was sat on honeymoon just thinking, oh gosh, you know, relax.

Speaker 2: 13:43

And I think I had a nice glass of chilled rose and I was reading through the latest edition of the magazine and I came across this article about a lady called Anna Hunt and she'd written a book called Shaman in Stilettos and I thought, oh, this is interesting.

Speaker 2: 13:58

And it was about a lady who had had a corporate background and then she'd gone off to, she'd had a you know she burns out and she'd gone off to Peru and she ended up being the apprentice of a Peruvian shaman and changed her whole life. And I thought, oh, wow, isn't this really interesting? I'm getting goosebumps just talking about so. Anyway I get to the end of the article, I downloaded her book immediately on my Kindle and I saw that she was running a retreat a couple of weeks after we got back and I'd actually just finished now working at that law firm and I was going back to my advocacy work that I'd done before and I had about, I think, a month gap between jobs and by some absolute miracle I don't know how at that point I had a bit of money left on my credit card which was quite saturated after the wedding and I said to my husband I said, do you mind if I go?

Speaker 2: 14:53

I said I know we've just got married. I said, but there's something about this. In a couple of weeks I said, can I go to Spain for five days? And he's brilliant, he's a man of science, he's not interested in the same things as me, but he's really supportive and he keeps me grounded. So he said yeah, okay, you know. Yeah, yeah, I don't mind.

Speaker 2: 15:11

So I went to Spain and that was my first kind of taste of shamanism. I remember Anna talked us through a meditation and it's the first time that I really felt something in the earth. It was kind of like the land started to speak almost, and it was really powerful and we did ceremonies and worked with San Pedro, the captives, medicine, and it was really quite incredible. So I came home and I thought, do you know? I'd love to learn how to do that. But you know, anna was a Western woman. I'm a Western woman and I thought I don't know how I feel Like, really, is that meant for me? And you know, so I sort of would look every so often for a teacher, you know, thinking you know if there's a practitioner training course, and I found that they were all down south and we were living in Yorkshire at the time and then it was 2019. And I think it was on Facebook. I'd just gone back onto Facebook and Instagram after a bit of a break. I'd sort of stepped back on there after I'd had my son and was looking for connection with people who were interested in crystals and things like that and, having gone through a difficult birth with Thomas, that sort of added in another layer. It was quite harrowing and things changed and it was as though that was the right time after those experiences, because a teacher in Yorkshire appeared. So I started my training with her in 2020 and I completed that in 2021.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Due to lockdown, it extended everything, but towards the end of that training so towards the end of 2021, I started writing for Indy Shaman magazine and I'm also a columnist and my editor there said to me June Kent, she's a fabulous lady. She said to me one day Emma, would you like to review this book for me? So she sent me this book and you know when you have those moments in life where your whole body reacts and for me I get the goosebumps, the full body chills, that knowing, and the book was called the Way of the Sharpen, an Irish Shamanic Path, and my lineage is Irish, so both sets of grandparents come from Ireland. They moved over here when they were in their early 20s for work and to start a family, and I'm really proud of my Irish roots. It's what I grew up with, very close to both sets of grandparents and immersed in the Irish culture really, and I just thought, ooh, okay, so I've. You know I'm coming towards the end of the practitioner training. At that point I thought, but I want to. So I read the book and I reached out to Samantha Murphy who wrote the book.

Speaker 2: 17:55

And the next thing and I say this now as I'm in year four, which is the final year of my Irish shamanic training and oh, natasha, it's been a long time, it's just been fantastic and it's built upon the things that I learned in my practitioner training, if that makes sense, the quality overlap, but it's gone even deeper. So, working with the different realms, I think most shamanic practitioners work with the lower world, the middle world and the upper world. People have different names for them and you can see it as like a tree, and I know that that will speak to you as well, because we're both very connected to Reiki and the drawing up, the energy of the land and the frequency of the water. So it all mixes in together and just kind of journeying deeper with my animal guides and allies which has been an absolute joy, and I'll talk to you a little bit about those as well Kind of getting comfortable with journeying in the different realms and having a couple of retreats on the land in Ireland as well oh my gosh, it's just been.

Speaker 2: 19:02

I've got two weeks there at the end of the, the sort of September October time, which is a big deal. I've got a seven year old son going away for two weeks is a massive thing. I'm really lucky that my husband is. He's like that's cool. I know it's part of you finishing your course and it's something that means so much to you. So we're gonna be walking the spiral, as my teacher calls it, and I don't really know what to expect. But I'm still integrating after the retreat in November last year. So I think I'll probably come back and be shell shocked for a bit more, in a good way.

Speaker 1: 19:38

In a good way, yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:40

I know that everything I'm learning it's not just for me. It's a journey of personal development with spirit and healing a few things, and also it's equipping me with even more tools I can use to support my energy healing clients. So it's beautiful, it's just. I couldn't be without it. That's how I feel about it, if you can tell the difference, probably in my demeanour talking about this Absolutely yeah, I've never really been overly drawn to it.

Speaker 1: 20:07

I've always been aware of it. And then I've done more work, sort of become more involved with more work in the earth and earth frequencies. Obviously we met through the trees and Celtic Reiki and that's become much more prominent. And then I did do a course about looking at the health of your site you know the land that you're on, et cetera and she introduced me to journeying and I have to say that's been a bit mind-blowing and the information that's come through the visuals has been so strong.

Speaker 2: 20:48

It's just so special.

Speaker 1: 20:50

Fascinating, yeah, it's fascinating.

Speaker 2: 20:53

It's as though we have these tools that you know and it doesn't make you know I know more, different or more special than anybody else. That's not how I operate. It's just about what calls to you and, kind of, isn't it wonderful that we have this available to us and it is available to anybody who's interested in learning how to do a shamanic journey, safely, of course and, you know, with an appropriate teacher at the beginning, and having that safety and learning how to be safe whilst you're in the different realms and working with different animals and plants and trees and spirit and the angelics and the ancestors, and oh gosh, it's just, we're so lucky as humans. That's amazing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:39

What's made me realise and I think you just touched on that is how powerful our minds are and our subconsciouses and we don't use that. We live in this very fine band. That's our reality, but actually there's so much more out there that we can touch, and that's what I think it suddenly dawned on me more at doing this journey is that we are only looking at such a tiny proportion of what we can look at Definitely that our minds can take us.

Speaker 2: 22:13

I know I don't know I'd be interested to hear what you say about this, natasha but you know, at the very beginning, with it all and especially working with clients, and when you do work with somebody's energy, which is one of the most you know, it's an amazing honor, as I'm sure you'll agree with, kind of having that logical training that we've had through the law. It does take time, or it has with me, it's like a muscle where I've had to kind of put my logical brain and I know people can't see this, but I'm sort of pushing that to one side to allow the full extent of that channel or being that hollow bone or however you describe it to how things to come through completely unfiltered and unfettered by you know, the logical mind going hang on a minute.

Speaker 2: 23:02

Yeah, there's a green dragon on a hill and you go into the earth and you're meeting with an ancient Irish deity to have a conversation around a table with a deer skull on it, and you know you have to put aside the part of the brain that goes come on, come on, what is this?

Speaker 2: 23:22

You know the brain that deals with the civil procedure rules and kind of court deadlines or whatever it is that you deal with in the quote unquote ordinary realms. But what I found fascinating is that the more I've kind of trusted what comes through, the I'm more easily able to slip into that. And that's true of journeying as well, which I wonder if you experienced that when you journey at first, the mind is busy. If you fully allow yourself to go in and you know I'm not going to lie sometimes it's easier than others. Sometimes I'm just not in the right frame of mind. My head is very busy, and that is something that's always been the case for me. But all the time, wow, you're just able to go in and that's it. It's just you come back and think, whoa.

Speaker 2: 24:09

Yeah, what was that yeah, so sometimes I record the journey by speaking on my phone. Other times I'll just come out of the journey and scribble yeah, and I'll go back and go whoa. It's fascinating.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Yeah, yeah, I found I think I do theta healing and the training that you do with that has actually made it very easy for me to put that logical conscious mind to one side. So I don't struggle with that. And I realized that I've journeyed for years, not knowing it. In my last house I had this whole elaborate sort of setup outside my French doors and I realized that that was me journeying to different different, for different information, for different, and I didn't really label it as journeying, I didn't know that's what it was called. And I've noticed, the more I've done it, the more that it's developed, the more I can see, the more I can go to different places, different levels, you know, and it's become incredibly fascinated.

Speaker 1: 25:22

And I, when I first did it, what made me think, well, actually I haven't gone completely crazy, was because this guy met me and I kept thinking she doesn't look quite right, I don't quite work out, she doesn't look quite human. But you know, not wanting to say anything, but you know, maybe that's just me, but she gave me something and she gave me this insect and I had never heard the name of that insect at all and I, but I got it very clearly and when I came back, I Googled it and I thought, oh, okay, I've given something that you have no conscious awareness of and specters might say well, you read about that or you've seen it in a film, but I have no conscious recognition. You don't get them in England, so there's no particular reason I would have come across them. But when you then Google it and think, oh, that information is correct, that actually is a real affirmation, and you think okay, there's something going on Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 26:29

It completely relates to that and have that sometimes in journeys where you go in and I think, oh, there's all these ghost bushes and there's this hill and it looks like this and this, and then later, a few weeks later, discovering that it's a sacred site in Ireland that I've never physically visited or I haven't heard until that point or didn't know what it looked like. So validation like that, it kind of gives me that I don't know. I quite like having that. That's probably speaking to the logical side of the brain going. Well, there is something in it, so it keeps that, it gives it a tidbit to keep it happy, almost.

Speaker 1: 27:08

Yeah, our logical side needs the occasional, like you say, validation or affirmation. You need to know that there is something happening.

Speaker 2: 27:19

Yes, but you aren't losing your marbles, that there is actually something in it. It's great.

Speaker 1: 27:26

I'd really encourage people to try journeying, because I just, like you say, in a self-safe environment, maybe in a workshop or something, because it's been incredible for me and that's sort of how I come into really learning a bit more about shamanism. Yes, and I've also always worked with spirit animals and I've always worked with the elements which are all part of shamanism, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 27:53

Yes, that's right and everything is. My belief is that the earth is all, the elements are part of that, it's all alive, it's all so rich and bountiful and there's so much magic in it and sadly, we don't, as humans, look after Mother Earth in the way that she's crying out for, and I think that's evident in the changes that we see in the weather and all sorts of things that people have different views on it. My view is that, yeah, we have done this as humans and I think, yes, working with the elements and animals and things like that, it's kind of again, it's opening up to what's actually there and having gratitude for that as well. You know, yeah, and I think that's part of this house where we are currently.

Speaker 2: 28:43

I'm currently on the edge of the Peak District in Derbyshire, which is a gorgeous part of the world, and we were living in the suburbs of Leeds and Bradford for eight to nine years because my former job, when I was teaching, took us that way and we both knew that we were coming to the end of our time there, but we didn't quite know where to go next and both my husband and I worked from home. We're very fortunate and at the moment and my son's former school wasn't. It wasn't brilliant, and I'd been feeling in my dreams and journeys, you know, the land was calling us somewhere and I didn't know, I didn't know where. And then, you know what year was it now? So 2022, it was a really difficult year. We ended up, after living in this house for three years, rats started getting into the roof and it was just terrible and we were just saying, you know, we're, you know, we can't bear this anymore. We really want to leave. And then the landlady sadly split up with her partner and she said I'm going to have to sell the property. So it was like right, you know, this is it.

Speaker 2: 29:47

So we were looking around for places and we just couldn't find anything that we wanted. In Yorkshire we were competing against, you know, 30 different people for the property and if you've got cats, we've got two old cats, elderly cats and a child. That immediately puts you at a disadvantage. It's a real eye opener. And then I sat there one day and I just sort of I tuned into the land and I said, where are we meant to be? And the word Matlock popped in and I was like Matlock. I thought I used to go there as a child with my parents and I really liked it, but I don't know it very well.

Speaker 2: 30:23

Anyway, found this property and came down and you know we managed to get it. Beautiful garden. I kind of knew it was the place because there were three rose bushes in the garden and we didn't have a garden in our former property but I knew I was, I need to be in more green, three rose bushes, and there was a key ring with an owl and an owl statue out the back and I thought, well, I work very closely with owl. Owl is my animal guardian, my main animal guardian, and I also work. That.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Rose is very important to me, as I've come to know through my shamanic path. So the land called us here and it says, though you know those affirmations in the form of the animal and the plants and having a garden and having a view of the beautiful green hills, you know it's doesn't that all marry into how it's all there for us and how, if we have a sincere intention to work with and respect the allies that we've got in nature and in Mother Earth, then magical things can happen. You know, without sounding cheesy, but I've got no doubt that you know that we had support in the spiritual realms in getting here and that my shamanic journey enabled me to recognise that, appreciate it and work with it. I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I had no idea.

Speaker 1: 31:46

No, it's fascinating to listen to, and you know what I realised?

Speaker 2: 31:50

is that we?

Speaker 1: 31:50

are. You know, we belong to the earth, we are part of those elements. You know we, for optimum health, we have to be so grounded and connected to the surface of the earth. Otherwise, you know, we have all sorts of issues where we're not, and all this infrastructure that we've put in has stopped that in a lot of times. But we have to. We are part of this earth, you know. So it's like we are so interconnected. We are, you know, an element of the earth, if you like. We can't live without her. We don't go anywhere else. We are always connected to her.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Exactly, and we come from her and we will return to her. You know, we come from our ancestors there. Blood of our blood, bone of our bone, and we carry forward. And kind of working on that side of things as well is so important. I mean, there's so much in it with the shamanic path and a lot of it. There are overlaps, of course, with all the modalities and things, but yeah, there's just something about it. For me that's really special, really special.

Speaker 1: 32:55

No lovely. So let's just quickly talk about spirit animals, because we've both mentioned spirit animals. It's quite a big part of shamanistic work, isn't it Shamanic work? I should say.

Speaker 2: 33:10

Yes, that's right. Yeah, I think again, just touching back to how I met my owl guide and then some of the other allies as well, before I started my training again, I was getting. I kept seeing owls everywhere. You know there'd be something on the TV. You'd open a magazine there'd be owls, there'd be. You'd go to a cafe for a cup of tea there'd be owls. And it was after that that I I did a journey and I connected and I realised that owl is the guardian that's been with me since birth.

Speaker 2: 33:43

But we do have other animal allies that work with us. Some of them come to us for a lifetime, some come and go for a particular period of your life a bit like people really, yeah, and they can assist us with so many different things and give us information. And just to give you another example, when I first started journeying to the lower world, and to me the lower world is the place of our ancestors, place of our roots, if you were thinking about the roots of a tree. And I have an animal guide in the lower world as well, and he is a lion, he's my ancestral totem and he comes with me when I journey to the lower realms with my ancestral teacher, who is my paternal great-grandmother. So the two of them are with me. So my animal and my teacher as I go on a quest, and quests in the lower world again for me, are connected with ancestral patterns.

Speaker 2: 34:45

You know what is it I need to be shown in this lifetime to work with or, if not to heal it, to be aware of it. So the lion is with me, he acts as a protector. I also have an ally who waits at my place of safety, which we always journey from. I should say Again, you mentioned you had a place in your old house where you would go. I go to a place in a woodland near where I used to live, and that's my place of safety. And I have an animal, a different animal, who waits to hold that space while I'm away. And then, if I'm journeying in the middle realms for queries of such a nature of well you know, should I, for example, what guidance can I be given about, perhaps, to say, a new job or a new location or something like that real sort of modern day, what's going on in my life?

Speaker 2: 35:39

in the middle realm and I'll step in, and I have a couple of animals that always come to me there at the start of the journey. Sometimes a new one will appear, sometimes one of them won't, but all of them are symbolic and I think it's really important to get to know them as what they mean to you personally. There's nothing wrong with going and having a look on the internet, as what does a butterfly mean? And transformation, big change and all that kind of thing but is there anything else in it that means something to you personally? When you an animal appears, I'll be working with somebody else and I'll close my eyes and I'll think, oh, there's a zebra that's coming for this person. Oh, hello, okay, and then we just let the zebra will support however it wishes to support in that person's journey. Or if it's myself, it could be for my journey or my quest.

Speaker 2: 36:37

And yeah, again, the animals have so much to offer. So do, as I mentioned, the plants and the trees. One of my allies is an oak tree, for example. It's just such a bounty. It really is. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:52

And when you're working, actually, sometimes the message that you get is actually relevant to yourself as well, isn't it? There's a real sort of interconnection when you're working with somebody's energy and your own.

Speaker 2: 37:06

There is, and I think and again I'd be interested to know if you find this but people are drawn to you, often because of the experiences that you've been through in your life. So sometimes you see those things come up with people who've come to you and you witness that for them and hold them with compassion and kind of. I like to say I'm not in the spiritual worlds. There is a lot of hierarchy and ego, sadly as well. We were saying about law. They're coming out of the spiritual world and I think do you know what? I'm sorry, but I'm not here. I'm not on a pedestal above anybody else. I'm here on the same level, to walk with you, with my arm around you, to sort of help you, because at the end of the day, people have to want to do the work, because it is work themselves. You can't fix anybody or cure anybody. It's a partnership, isn't it A co-partnership?

Speaker 1: 38:02

And it's never ending, isn't it? You know your story is working on your energy and aspects of yourself, and you know it's never ending the onion with more layers and you can't stick at it.

Speaker 2: 38:14

And you know I think it's important to be human, walk your talk, be open. You know, just because we do this work doesn't mean we don't have struggles in our lives. We just mean we don't worry about sometimes paying the bills or kind of our loved ones and very, very real things that happen.

Speaker 1: 38:34

you know, you just provide those extra tools, though, doesn't it? In that time of worry, you know, if I have something that I'm worrying about, I might go and talk to my gut. I might go and have a meditation or a journey and just talk to my guide and say you know, and you get the reassurance, or perhaps you get an idea about what you could do you know?

Speaker 2: 38:55

so it's just an extra tool, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 38:58

It is, it is, and I think, allowing that space, and that's something that I must get better at. You know, I'm very much in growth. Sometimes Some weeks, I think, gosh, you know, I've just got up. You know, sorting out my son for school straight to my desk, and then it's kind of sorting out tea or homework, and then, you know, I might have a glass of wine, watching the Netflix and go to bed, you know, and then you look back and think what's missing this week? Ah, I haven't been outside enough. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:26

I've been for a walk, or sat with a cup of tea, or sat quietly for half an hour, and that's where the magic is.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:34

And sometimes. A wise friend once said to me should, even if and she used to do this in her corporate job and she's another spiritually minded person she said sometimes it's just a case if you shut yourself in the loo for five minutes and just sit there and just kind of and some weeks that's what it's like, but other weeks there is more space and that's okay, that's all okay.

Speaker 1: 39:58

Yeah, and we're all the same, and if you've got a worry or concern, you can bet other people have got the same worry or concern or they've been through the same. But again, it's like that little space that we call reality and if we can just step off, even for like five, 10 minutes or longer to do a little journey or to do whatever meditation or whatever, you just get that balance back, don't you? You get that. I don't know what you clarity in a way.

Speaker 2: 40:28

Yeah, it's kind of you're able to stop really, not only listen to your guides, but what I've also learned, the impulsives of listening to your body, and if it all ties in somehow, because, again, our body, we come from the earth and the body's always trying to get our attention. And for so many years I just got that down. That's why I stayed in legal practice for so long, because, well, that's what you do, You've trained for it and I'd be. And after I had my son, I remember he came home from nursery one day and he said, when we were you're crying again, I think he was about to. And that's when I knew I thought I can't do this anymore. I can't. My priorities have changed. I've ignored my body, I've ignored the stuff that lights me up, embracing it properly. And yeah, that's when I knew change was gonna happen. And it's not always easy. Sometimes you think, oh gosh, why do I? Why can't I just be in this world and not think about all those things? But actually I wouldn't change it.

Speaker 1: 41:27

It's special and it's close, isn't it, as we do all of this work? It is growth, it is you get these realizations, you get this healing, and I always believe that if you don't being a past life regression therapist I hope that if you don't do the work, you'll come back and you'll have to do the same work again.

Speaker 2: 41:47

So I'm like.

Speaker 1: 41:48

I am not doing this work again.

Speaker 2: 41:50

I am finding these answers.

Speaker 1: 41:53

I'm gonna live my best life because, quite frankly, I'm not doing it again.

Speaker 2: 41:58

No, I completely agree with you.

Speaker 1: 42:01

I want to go on and learn something else, something different, in the next incarnation, where that might be.

Speaker 2: 42:09

Yes, wherever it could be, whether it's on this planet or another. Who knows Exactly? We'll find out one day, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 42:16

We will indeed. Well, thank you, I'm going to be fascinating and I've loved hearing about your life and how you've come to shamanism. It's been fascinating. So thank you so much for sharing all of that, being so honest and open.

Speaker 2: 42:33

Oh, yes, yes, you'll always get that with me, thank, you.

Speaker 1: 42:38

I will put up your details underneath the episode. But you have clients that come to you for they have for energy healing. To work with you as a can never get the pro-nast way. Work with you in a shamanic way.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Yes, that's right. Yes, most of my work is done remotely. That seems to be my own thing at the moment and I love it.

Speaker 2: 43:06

I just kind of yeah, it's sort of finding you, I find you know, connecting in with the energy, and then it's I imagine you as if you're there in front of me and I write, and then I feed it all back and pages and pages of things that come through for a person and just share it all without filter. The logical mind, as I said, just goes no, no, just write it down and share it and it just worked really well and it's yeah, it's just a joy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:36

That sounds amazing. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming and supporting Balm to the Soul. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you Really really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Good luck with your retreat at the end of the year, oh my God, we might have another chat this time next year and I'll be saying all sorts of different things. Who knows?

Speaker 1: 43:57

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. So if you've enjoyed listening to me and Emma, please like and share, and you can always subscribe to Balm to the Soul and you can write a review as well if you've enjoyed your time with us and hopefully we'll speak to you soon.