Holistic Time Management and more with Cindy Hoch

Burnout often looks like a diary problem, but it feels like a nervous system problem. I’m joined by Cindy Hoch, a trauma coach, Theta healer, writer, women’s circle organiser, and holistic time management practitioner, to explore what happens when we stop trying to “optimise” every minute and start working with our real capacity instead. Cindy shares how travelling with her family, home schooling, and working across time zones makes rigid routines impossible, and why that reality can actually teach us a healthier way to plan.

We dig into the difference between classic time management and holistic time management. The first can make your to-do list look tidy while stress stays the same. The second asks what your mental, emotional, and physical bandwidth is today, what your environment is demanding, and how to honour your body as cyclical rather than constant. We talk survival mode, why creativity cannot land when you’re braced for impact, and how rest can be the most productive decision you make. You’ll hear clear burnout signs to watch for, plus the mindset shift that starts recovery: awareness without judgement, followed by permission to do things differently.

We also move into practices that support regulation and connection, from yoga and breathwork to compassion-focused meditation and nature as co-regulation. Cindy shares how women’s circles create a trauma-informed space to be seen and heard, and how cacao can support intuition and creativity, including the story behind naming her “Soul Balm” circles. If you’ve been feeling overwhelmed, behind, or stretched thin, this conversation offers a steadier, kinder framework for sustainable productivity and self-care.

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs more space, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show. What’s one small permission you could give yourself this week?

Website: https://cindyhoch.com/en/home/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cindyhochcom/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:26

So, welcome everybody to another episode of Balm to the Soul. I'm your host, Natasha Joy Price, and I'm an energy therapist, an author, and of course a podcaster. And today we have Cindy Hawk with us. So welcome, Cindy. Thank you very much for supporting the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Hi, Natasha. It's so lovely to be here, and I'm so happy that we have met.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Yes. We will talk about that in a bit. But let me just introduce you. So Cindy is, there's a long list of what Cindy does, but Cindy is a trauma coach. She's a theatre healer. She's a writer. She also organises women's circles. And she is a holistic time management practitioner. And I think we're going to delve into the holistic time. But before we do that, yes, let's explain how we met. So we met because we are both involved with Lynette Allen, who came on. Go and check her episode. And when women gather publishing, and we've both um are contributing to her latest compilation, When Women Need Space. And um we sort of were on a Zoom call and we all introduced ourselves, and we realized that we have very um a couple of things in common. Absolutely, yes. So we're both theater healers, but um Cindy's women's circles are called soul balm. Exactly. And obviously we are balm to the soul, and it just it's quite it's quite an unusual. I mean, you don't meet lots of people who use that, those words. Um so that was quite interesting that we just had those sort of similarities.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yes, and I felt this connection. Like when first meeting you on Zoom, I felt like, oh, these coincidences just keep piling up. And then we said it afterwards, and and I felt like, yeah, there was such a lovely connection, and why don't we, you know, explore that?

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, absolutely. So where are you at the moment, Cindy? Because I know that you were traveling, so where are you at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

It's right. I've been on the road um for 10 months with my family. Currently, I'm in Berlin in Germany for two more weeks, and then we're off to New Zealand for 10 months, for another 10 months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Wow, lovely. How lovely. But you were last time I spoke to you, you were in South Africa, weren't you?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yes, and I was in South Africa.

unknown 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yes, how lovely. So you traveling around, how does that affect your work? Do you do you find that you know, with the internet and Zoom and it really doesn't, you can do your work anywhere?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I feel so blessed to be able to do my work anywhere. Like even um before we left, I did half of my work online and half of my work in person. So for our time abroad, I just shifted to 100% online. And it's just a such a blessing to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

However, um it's different being um like being gone from our usual structures. We're homeschooling. Um, so that time where my child is in school, where I usually work, um, is yeah, it's now differently structured. So and we're also traveling, and it's just the three of us. We like we don't have any outside support system. And also there are the time differences um regarding my work. So there are these are all kinds of different aspects that um yeah, that influence how we live our life. And I'm just, you know, so much more happy and glad to be to know all these tools, especially from holistic time management, um, that I can apply even more right now than than than I would have before.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

And and one of those things

How Our Paths Crossed

SPEAKER_01 4:29

is first and foremost, seeing myself as a human being with you know needs and not as a machine that functions, you know, uh from nine to five um every day in the same way. So and this is what I what I really like in terms of a holistic perspective in terms compared to a classical point of view from time management, which I know fairly well as well. Like I've been coaching that in the past 10 years. Um, but but I always felt with classical time management, um, like when you know all those tools and you apply them and you have all your to-dos in the structure, and you you you just know what to do and and and go can go step by step, it doesn't change, necessarily change how you feel inside. It doesn't take away the stress within you. You might still feel, oh, I need to be quicker, I should have done that already, or you can still feel like, yes, I know I need to do that, but I can't, like I don't want to, or something within me is keeping me from doing that. I'd much rather do something else. Um, and and with holistic time management principles and tools, we don't just look at work and tasks that need to be done. We look at the whole perspective. Like, what's actually your capacity right now? Your mental capacity, your emotional capacity, your your physical capacity. Um, what does your environment currently need from you? And throughout our travel, my environment needed a lot. Yes from traveling, right? We we wanted to explore, but we also needed to do a lot of orientation, like um arriving, figuring things out, unpacking, doing things for the first time. There, there's a lot of energy saved in your everyday life from having routines, and we didn't have those, right? So that's where a lot of energy went to. And just having this this awareness and this mindset helped me so much more to get my work done and to to puzzle all the things that needed to be uh to be done together for all of us, for for my family, for all of our needs, um, in a way that where where I stayed healthy in all levels.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah. Absolutely. I I mean I've just finished retired from a very corporate job uh for 29 years, and um I sort of was giving myself a break, but I didn't. I just pivoted into what was my hobby and how I could create that into a job. Um, but I have been taking on board how I've been feeling because I I can very much feel an internal unraveling in a good way, but it's like, you know, like I haven't set the alarm. So, you know, some days I've been sleeping till half seven, which is late for me, because when you're in a corporate job, you have to be up at six every day or whatever. So um I've been allowing that to happen. And you know what? If I need a nap, I I've been going to have a nap. And actually they've been decreasing, but I think initially I was at the point of exhaustion. So I've needed, but I've just allowed myself to do that. And um, if I didn't want to be on the computer, I've gone off and done something like gardening or which is much more grounding or cleaning or something that sort of gives your your sort of um your mind a rest, if

Travelling Life And Online Work

SPEAKER_02 8:19

you like. So I get that, absolutely. I've been following that. It's so important because if I pushed through, I pushed through when those times when I was thinking, oh, I could go for a nap, but I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna go and I would have I would have, I think, have got, you know, not helped burn out. I think I would have got to burn out.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah. And you know what? The the better we take care of ourselves, the the better we meet our own needs, including our need for rest, which you did, the better we can show up for others, for the world, what we want to bring into the world. And and and we are cyclical beings, right? Um when we honor and respect ourselves as humans, as cyclical beings with our needs, um, and when we when we treat those times of lower energy um just as valuable as those of higher, those times of higher output, um we uh we have so much more energy, we are much more productive. And this is fundamentally at odds with what we have learned socially and collectively. And um like we don't we don't rest generally, or or we you know feel bad, or there's still a pile of things we need to do before we can take time for ourselves or before we can rest. But the more you do that, the more you burn out. And and and actually being a trauma coach, like knowing working with the autonomous nervous system, um, and and how that works, um, I know that that the more rest we take, the the more um rested we are, the more we get done, which is which is really very counterintuitive.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Yeah, because you do we do really pressurize ourselves to achieve something. I have to achieve something today, I have to uh tick things off the list or whatever, but that's our own internal pressure, um, which has come from society and what we've learned, or being in a corporate job for 29 years. So that's my way of thinking, and I've got to shift it into um a very different way of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I mean, there's nothing wrong with you. Um, I feel that, or I I strongly believe that this is in our collective DNA. There were times um where working beyond our needs were um were were important for survival. And and I feel like this this has been passed down from generation to generation, and now we're just living this pattern without actually questioning it. And when we just bring, and because everyone does that, right? So and and this is expected. And and if we just settle down and bring our focus from the outside, which when you when you think about what others expect and what needs to be done, is is your your focus is very much on the outside, like op, like up and out. But when you when you stop and bring your focus in and down to your body, you immediately let go a bit of tension, and and you you realize what what what a capacity you actually have, how your body feels. And when you're always in this outside view, um you're constantly judging yourself. Like you you need to be uh quicker, um, you should have done that already, um, or your body is weak when you're tired now, or your back is aching, and then you're judging your body. But that's a very that's the burnout matrix.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yeah. And I've I've discovered that um clearly, although you know everything I believe and I do, there was a level of tension in me that never went away. And I think as I've since leaving that corporate job and being at home, I have internally unraveled, if you like, or relaxed. And by doing so, I've got things have come up into my head, or thoughts have come to my head, and I and I had completely forgotten things. So um, you know, things that I wanted to do, but I've obviously just put them somewhere because I didn't have time or whatever. But I've I it's almost like they release memories as you unravel, if that makes sense. If you give space, you suddenly remember things, and I keep thinking, oh, I was gonna do that, or I was gonna do that. So, you know, it just makes you realise how tightly coiled we must be, and how that really compresses like creativity,

Holistic Time Management Explained

SPEAKER_02 13:20

or and I'm assuming trauma, people who've suffered trauma are the same, they can be so tightly coiled and just so it they're there's sort of not the space to be creative and expansive, and um because it's the complete opposite, if you like.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, because you're just functioning and it's really tight and you're in survival mode. Yes, you're in in a in a constant survival mode, and and creativity doesn't go with survival mode. Like you need that relaxed, grounded state of safety, of openness for connection, of interaction in in um in order for create creativity to land.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah. I I think if you and I was very acutely aware that I didn't term it survival mode, but I think you're probably absolutely right. But I was very acutely aware that if I stayed in that job, I would be physically ill.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I knew that for a fact. So um that being in survival mode must absolutely deplete us on all levels to the point that we then become mentally, physically unwell with it all.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yes, exactly. And you know what? I mean, you you felt that um tiling up over the years, right? And now you felt that shift and and and now you um quit that job and and you and and you felt your body needing more rest, and and now that's been decreasing. But it doesn't always necessarily have to take such a big change. Um like you don't necessarily have to quit your job or uh leave your partner, or you know, it doesn't need that those big life decisions in order to get out of survival state. And that's that's the beauty of um of holistic time management, but also of this this trauma and formed work, this this work with the nervous system, because very often um even if you take away those big chunks of you know those those stressful uh factors, um, you still have the that that's the the tension within you. And and it's more about the the internal work, the also the physiology, like the body work, the physical work, um to um signal safety to your system, um to help your system relax, rather than always um shifting things on the outside. And I find that a really beautiful message. Like you don't have to um make major changes in your life in order to like on the outside of your life in in order to feel majorly different on the inside.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

No, and actually I uh very intuitively I left work in June, but in February I started a yoga teaching course. And I was kept thinking, why am I doing this? God, I haven't got enough time. But I think instinctively I felt I knew that I needed to sort of come into the body and do much more movement in the body, and um so I think that's you know, until now I didn't realize the importance of that, but it's important to have a physical bodily um part of your life, isn't it? Because that that really does um help with all of this.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yes, absolutely. And you you said a really um uh beautiful sentence that I hear every day. I don't have enough time. There's always a lot more to be done um than than there is time, but we actually all have the same time, and and this is something um I also find really interesting. We want to optimize our time um to the degree of um of filling it up to a hundred percent. But this is again, this is leading us to burnout. This is just the I'm I and I and I just want I want to repeat that because uh and and to to bring awareness to that, um like how we're subconsciously just going um uh through our days and through our lives with a maximum is is is leading us to burnout. That's not healthy. What we want to do is we want to prioritize care, self-care, and and rest in our bodies and and honor our bodies' needs. And when when you're in that, and and because then you're in that nervous system state of connection, of um of groundedness and of openness rather than in being in survival mode. And and when you're in that state, things come easy. Like when you're in that relaxed, laid-back state, it doesn't mean that everything is rainbow and sunshine, right? But everything feels um manageable, like everything that life's throwing you, you rather feel like, okay, I can do this, rather than it being overwhelmingly much.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

And and whereas when we're in survival mode and things just keep piling up, we feel so overwhelmed and we just go on and go on and and just push through, but we're making things actually worse. Whereas when we take a step back and take some space, for instance, um suddenly things feel more manageable. And and this has got to do a lot with your nervous system state, like with your physiological physiological state um of your being.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah. So let's just clarify if somebody, if some of the listeners feel that they are reaching burnout, what are some of the symptoms of burnout? So exhaustion is one of them, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Just feeling exhaustion, like waking up, up exhausted already in the morning. Yes,

Rest, Cycles And Leaving Corporate

SPEAKER_01 20:50

also not sleeping well, not sleeping through the night, not being able to um like like racing thoughts, spinning minds, right? Right, yeah, yeah. There's this this hamster wheel um where you feel you're on in your mind and also in your body.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

And and what you were talking about, yeah, and the overwhelm that you were talking about. Yeah. And just that thought, I can't cope, I can't cope. So that's that's really if people uh are feeling any of that, that is the start, and where you need to start looking at shifting out of survival mode.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

And you know, um, I I mainly work with women, um, and also with mothers. Not not all of them are mothers, but with women and and um some of them have have kids. And what what I see is and I I did that myself, right? I'm a mom too, um wanting to do all of wanting to do all the things possible for my kids, for my family, like fulfilling all those roles for 100%. And then um I've experienced burnout um 10 years ago, and and I remember going to the doctor and just sharing how my life was then and how stressed I felt. And she said, Well, you know, um stressed parents, stressed moms, in um that has an effect on the kids, a negative effect on the kids. And I was I I couldn't believe that. I thought, but I'm doing all the things for my kid. Like how like she's doing really good, my daughter. Like, how can that affect her because I'm doing all the things? And and and I I didn't feel like that could be true, but now, 10 years later, I absolutely see the difference in how I'm showing up for my daughter, in how I can hold all her emotions, and how our relationship has shifted because I'm not in constant constant survival mode.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah. That's a really interesting point. So if people feel that they are in survival mode and they are becoming overwhelmed, what are some things that they can do that they can start doing?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

The the first thing is awareness, right? That's that's the very, very first thing, just realizing that, okay, this is what's going on, without judging, without um diminishing or you know, without thinking, oh, I'm not as good or I should be, but rather just okay, that's the truth now. And then just accepting that. Um and and I feel like this is already. Quite a huge step.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Um, just accepting that this is you realize what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

That this is the step where you're in right now. And and the what I would advise to do is rather doing small things one at a time than one big thing all of a sudden, depending on how far you're in burnout you are, right? Obviously, there is some point where you just need to pull the trigger. Um but um before it gets to that, um small practices help. And there are, you know, there are tons of tools for regulation for for connection. Like just think of the things that you like to do and that help you get into your body, like that help you with your move with your focus in and down instead of up and out. And and that can be um bodily practices like yoga. Uh it can also be running, um, it can be breathing exercises, it can be just lighting a candle and taking five minutes to breathe. Um, it can be drawing, uh, it can be stopping to smell um the flowers, or there are tons of nervous system-regating exercises that you can do too. But what's much more important than the what you do is the how you do it. If you do those practices, any of those practices, um, with the intention of just ticking it off your list again. Uh when you see it as just another to-do, that doesn't take you out of uh survival mode. Like, yes, it might feel good, but it doesn't really bring you in into the connection. Like running, right? Uh running, um, I go running as an outlet, right? When when I go, when I go running, um, I feel my my feet pounding into the earth. I I hear my breath. Um, I feel my body then. And that's regulating. This is very um the this is where I can release energy as or you know, uh to when there's too much energy stored in my system. Um but I can also go running to achieve certain goals. Um and because I have a number of times in my mind that I need to go running per week, or a number of steps I need to take, or calories I need to burn, and then it's not regulating.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

And it's rather pushing me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah, you're pressurizing yourself again then. Yeah. So you've got to the mindset has to be as important as what you're doing. Yes. Yeah. Fabulous. Well, uh, you know, and just talking about it actually, and like you say, awareness, it's making me much more aware of, you know, why I do things and if I'm pressurizing myself, which I think is um really important, and doing more of my yoga.

Why Survival Mode Kills Creativity

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And awareness is this first step. And then the second I feel is permission, like giving yourself permission to do things differently, giving yourself permission to rest, giving yourself permission to prioritize your needs.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah. To go and read a book. Because in in those 29 years, I stopped reading novels because you just can't hold any more information. And you you don't, I wasn't relaxing because in my mind I was thinking I've got to do that, and I've got to do that, and I've got it. So I just couldn't hold a story. And one of the real pleasures since stopping work is discovering novels again, and being able to sit down and follow a story and think, oh that's you know, I enjoyed that. That's really good, really good story. So, yeah, that's really interesting, isn't it? I think awareness, like you say, is um a major, a major point just to think about your life and how it how things are making you feel is productive.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

And then when we go back to um when we go um the loop back to holistic time management principles, um the this awareness and this permission um then allows you to create a more flexible structure throughout your day and throughout your week. Like um classic time management principles are very rigid. Um and but but our needs um they they shift they they shift from from day to day, um depending on your cycle, depending on your hormones, depending on um things happening in your life, um depending on whether the kids are out for school, uh or yeah, out for the summer, I mean, um out of school. Um so, or whether they are holidays, or maybe there's something uh health-wise going on for you, um, or maybe you're even fasting, you know, all there are all kinds of different things that have um that influence your energy, that influence your capacity. And and the more you think about that holistically, like on all levels, like in your environment, in on your your mind, your body, your emotions, but also like spiritual needs that you might have. Um when when you take all of that into account, you you then um create a more much more flexible plan, if you want to plan, um, or at least a much more flexible mindset regarding how you um structure your day and what you do, yeah. And how you regard the things that you want and need to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

And probably, if you look at it, achieve just as much.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Um, not something that I've really thought about before I met you. So that's really, really interesting. So let's go on and talk about your um women's circles as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Um, the namesake, soul balm circles. So, how did they come about? How did that all um how did that come into your awareness to do that?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Um, way back, I was at a point where I felt like I needed more, I needed to connect more to my to the female side within me. And it wasn't like wearing skirts and putting on makeup. I felt like we're live in a very masculine world, and I wanted to explore that, what that meant. And then uh the universe sent me an invitation to Roman Circle, and that was an international circle where we met twice a month on Sunday, and and that just opened up a totally new world for me, like a an encounter where I could just be and be seen and heard and accepted just as I am, without putting on any masks, without needing to ful fulfill any roles or expectations. And and that felt really magical at you know at some level, but on a much deeper and at the same time subtle level, it felt really transformational and healing. And that brought to my awareness just how much women's circles um fulfill this very human need to be seen and accept accepted and heard as we are without being judged. And then I wanted to bring that to my community um who didn't all speak English. And uh and I very much I I very quickly figured out how that is a very sensitive subject to bring women together in a format where we share, but we don't we don't receive any answers on

Burnout Signs To Watch For

SPEAKER_01 32:00

and on what we've shared. So we don't receive any immediate verbal feedback. And um, and that is a very yeah vulnerable situation. And and I felt like there's so much that can go wrong here, and and obviously there that triggers can come up, um, interpersonal relation things can come up. Yeah, so yeah, that's why I um I did a training with um with Gemma Brady from Sister Stories, actually, uh also from the UK, where um I did a really, really comprehensive training on holding trauma-informed circles. And during that training, I thought, okay, like I need a name. I want a name for those circles. And then at one point, I actually um I drank cacao. Oh, yeah, this is something I I'd love to share because I'm also a cacao facilitator. I'll share that in a minute, how I did that. So so I drank a cow, and then um, and then that name came up, um, Soul Bomb. And and I just um brought that into their group, um, into my um training cohort. And they, I mean, they obviously knew me. We practiced with each other, right? And they said, yes, this is this is what your circles feel like, this is what being in your space felt like. And and I love that. And and what I love about the the cacao, what I want to share here, is also a very different approach to how we work. So um I I was at that point where I felt like, okay, I need this, I need a name, right? Uh for for the women's circle. Um, and and yes, I could just sit down now and research and write down lists, and I even had an appointment with a marketer um um to help me figure out the right name. But then I also felt, because this is a very mental approach, and and I felt also this is exhausting, and I felt that there should be a different one. And I've been drinking cacao and um and attending cacao ceremonies for for some time by then. And then I thought, okay, I'll just take that intention with me to cacao uh to a cacao ceremony. So I was sitting in that setting of um listening to really lovely music, dancing, moving, drinking cacao, and just being in connection. So in a really, you know, in a really enjoyous and and relaxed space. And then I asked for that, um, for that name to drop into my lap, and and I I um I started writing things, how that space feels, like writing down adjectives, and and I had I think two pages full um of just descriptive words, and then all of a sudden, Soul Bomb landed in my lap. And I was like, oh, is this it? And I like I tried it on, and I felt like, yeah, that that might be it. And so in those, I think it was an hour of work, right? Um, I had that name instead of spending hundreds of dollars uh on um on um on a marketer to help me figure out the name where instead of spending hours um researching and and comparing and making lists and scratching, and and this yeah, this was a very intuitive way of working and of getting things done. And uh this is like I drink a cow almost on a daily basis because it helps me with my creativity, it helps me get out of my head into my body, um, so out of the survival mode.

Regulation Tools And True Intention

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Um, and and I find that really supportive.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah. I've been to one ceremony and actually I really loved it. And um all these sort of ideas. Um it was before I retired, but I asked about how I could move forward with my my hobby as a business, and then all of this information came in. So it's a powerful, powerful way uh, you know, to um get advice if you like. It's advice from yourself, isn't it? Your higher self. Yeah. I can't I can't remember how I came to have balm to the soul, but I do know that it um the name Balm to the Soul came to me and I can't remember how or why, but it was some years ago, and I had nothing for it. I I and I thought, well, that's I like that name, but I've actually got nothing to put that name to at the moment. And then um I was in the shower one morning and I actually heard a voice say, start a podcast. And um I didn't know how to start a podcast, you know. I I didn't so anyway, I researched it all and and eventually that's how uh the podcast came about. And I thought, I know, I'll use that name. I'll use that name that was given to me years ago that's floated about for ages. And so the podcast became balm to the soul.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yeah, and I find that that's so fitting.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's a lovely, it's uh it's a lovely way, um lovely use of words, shall we say, that we both obviously both felt that connection. Um yeah, the other thing that comes that came to me was compassion crusader, and I use that on all my um podcast notes. Again, I have no concept of where it's come from, it's just not dropped in. But actually, over and over again, guests that come on have this message of you know, kindness and you know community and compassion. And so I think it's just a thread that sort of runs through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

But but compar compassion crusader, um it's such a lovely concept because it it moves the focus to compassion. And when you have compassion, like you can't have compassion in survival mode, right? Like when when you have feel compassion, you you are in your body, like you feel your heart opening up, you feel uh yourself becoming soft, you feel a connection, like compassion needs connection, or you can't really have compassion without connection. No, so that's a very lovely medicine.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah, and I did I do remember um reading Greg Greg Braden, um he's a writer, and I remember him talking about uh Buddhist monks talk about compassion being the energy that sits between us, yeah. And I do do um which I think is a lovely sort of um lovely visual, if you like, that we've got this beautiful energy flowing between us.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yes, absolutely. And and the the Buddhists also have the meta meditation, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Yes, yes, which which is so good for your vagus nerve as well. I think um David Hamilton talks about that as well, and how it it it sort of um takes down the inflammation of the vagus nerve to do that exercise.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Yes, and that this, you know, when we talk about regulation uh uh exercises and practices or things that you uh you can do to prevent burn from burnout, this is also something you could do. Like there are tons of things, and I think um like throughout all of our lives, we won't stop. Like we will always find new ways to regulate or new tools that help us regulate. So yes, it's good to have one or two or three um things that where you know, okay, this brings me down, or this gets me out of a certain state. But generally, I I feel like

Women’s Circles And Trauma-Informed Space

SPEAKER_01 40:25

there are so many ways and so many things um that help us to connect to ourselves again. And this um this meditation, like connecting to compassion, is a really beautiful one.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

The other one that I love, uh, because I absolutely love trees, is being around trees and forest bathing. And you know, I know it's all a bit hippie to say go and hug a tree, but scientifically now we know how powerful that is.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

And uh yes, nature co-regulates. Yeah, like yeah, like we we uh we need co-regulation, right? We're we're like in on our very uh evolutionary basis, we're uh we're herd animals. We're we need to be in a group, we need co-regulation, and yeah, nature co helps us co-regulate, yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

So let's just um talk about the writing as well. We can't leave that out. So we missed because of this new project that's coming about, um, why women need space. And um, so we're both writing a part of that, aren't we? Which is coming out uh I think probably Octoberish time. But it's your third time writing with um Women Who Gather Publishing, yes, and Lynn Lynette Allen. So, what are the other books that you've contributed and uh with her?

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah, not surprisingly, um I wrote about women's circles. That was a good tie-in, wasn't it? But that's just an amazing anthology, really, really good inspiration for those who also hold spaces, um, hold women's circles. It's a really, really great inspiration. Um and um and it's also a very good introduction to those who are new to circles, so it addresses a wide variety of um of women. And the second one is um about the feminine arts demystifying the power of manifestation, intuition, and intention.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And you're a master in manifestation too, I think.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Uh well, I have done it over the years, uh, yeah, very much into intuition and certainly intention, because I think um I think that uh intention is especially powerful for me. Because I think it is actually like the switch that turns on energy healing, that turns on the certain frequencies that we need in in all these healing modalities. I agree. Um so yes, that's that's amazing. And yes, I have I've uh you know manifested a a few things in in my time. So um, so yes, uh I think that's that's a powerful book as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Yeah. And Woman Who Needs Space Um will be really powerful as well. Um I love this book, uh, this book project because it will help normalize taking space, taking care of needs.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

And this is what we need to hear, like this is what we need to bring into the world.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

And it it loops back to your a holistic time management as well, doesn't it? Finding that time to do that. We've all got time to do that. We just have to find ways in which we can incorporate that into our lives. Yeah, perfect. Well, what a great place to end. That was a great loop back. I agree, yeah. So thank you so much, Cindy. It's lovely to talk to you and thank you so much for supporting the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

I've had such a good time uh being here with you. I love our chats and this one uh as well. And yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Oh, it's been a pleasure. So if you've enjoyed listening to Cindy and I chat, um then please like and share the podcast. You can support and subscribe, and um, I will speak to you all soon.