"Revitalize Your Brain” - Dr. John Lieurance on the Power of Cranial Rhythms, Methylene Blue Stacking, and the Melatonin Controversy

In this illuminating episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast, we're joined by Dr. John Lieurance, a luminary in the world of cranial and physical health.

Delve deep with us into the transformative technique of Functional Cranial Release (FCR), uncovering how personal encounters can pivot the course of one's clinical journey. We'll traverse the intricacies of cranial morphology and rhythm, understanding their profound influence on our brain function and the groundbreaking methods Dr. Lieurance employs to address these elements in his treatments.

Journey with us as we explore the vibrant world of Methylene Blue, a compound that parallels the role of hemoglobin in our bodies. Learn how its unique ability to amplify energy production and bolster antioxidant reserves has made it a cornerstone in treating a myriad of medical conditions. Dr. Lieurance sheds light on his innovative 'stacking' approach and unveils the secrets of the elusive 'Blue Spot' in our brains and its role in stress regulation.

But, our exploration doesn't end there. We venture into the realm of Endocranial work, where Dr. Lieurance challenges mainstream opinions on melatonin—opinions that are grounded in nocturnal rat studies. Why does he advocate for super high doses in a form most wouldn't expect? 

Dive in to discover the riveting research that has guided his practice and the transformative experiences his patients have undergone. 

This is not just a conversation; it's an exploration into the frontiers of cranial and neurological health. Prepare to have your perspective realigned.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

Welcome back to the cracking backs Podcast. Today we journey into the intricate world of cranial function with Dr. John neurons. From the revolutionary technique of functional cranial release that shaped his clinical journey to the intriguing realms of cranial morphology and rhythm, and their impact on our brains. dive deep with us into the vibrant world of methylene blue, an ally to hemoglobin, and its transformative potential for health, especially when stacked, discover the mysteries of the brains blue spot, and hold tight as we challenge widely accepted beliefs on melatonin. Are we basing our knowledge on nocturnal rats? Or groundbreaking research? Dr. Lorenz breaks it all down? Strap in, this is a conversation you won't want to miss. Dr. John Roberts, I'll tell you after reading about you, I have been thoroughly it's piqued my interest. And I can't wait to talk to you about a whole host of things that you do that most chiropractors don't. And I have an affinity for Functional Neurology and medicine and I can't wait to talk to you about it. Thank you. Thank you for being on the show, buddy.

Unknown: 1:15

Yeah, well, you're very welcome. I do remember us running into each other at one or two Carrick events. Yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:24

That's right. That's right, that mild traumatic brain injury program. So Dr. Becknell is one of my best friends. So you know, we've had him on the show. And he thinks highly of you, too. So that's great, man. So let me let me let me jump in and start. Have you tell our listeners about your journey in the world of chiropractic neurology and functional medicine. I love that stuff. What inspired you to pursue this, this unique path?

Unknown: 1:51

You know, it's been interesting, like I was talking to a patient earlier. We're having an event tomorrow, actually. And I have some people that have flown in from out of town that have wellness clinics, and they were asking me a little bit about that as well. And just reflecting on my 30 year career and looking at all of the different lives I've lived, you know, and initially, probably like most chiropractors, you know, I got out of school, and I was just 100%, straight chiropractic. I mean, I just, you know, I believe that you set the bone and let the body do its thing. And, and that probably worked one day, you know, when you talk to your old chiropractors, they said, Hey, back in the day, you know, you you fix their subluxations you corrected their spinal misalignments you free those nerves up, let the innate do the rest. But these days, there's too many headwinds. And I, I look at it as headwinds to basically stressors, they compound. And they all stressors have one thing in common, and that is that they, they create, they create inflammation in the body, right? So we have to adapt to stresses. And in order to adapt to stresses, we, we can adapt to a level but then when it exceeds our ability to adapt, then that's when you start to spill into this cytokine effect where we're inflammation ensues. And inflammation is can be really good. In fact, we do a lot of procedures in our, in our practice that activate inflammation, massage and wash Shaw is a very aggressive form of like removing scar tissue, and there's a lot of inflammation associated with that treatment. prolotherapy you know, there's a number of like regenerative treatments that we that we utilize our practices multi. We have various types of physicians. And so we're medical and chiropractic and alternative, but we do platelet rich plasma from people's blood and we'll inject that and have become very inflamed for a day or two. But inflammation can be can be a friend and it can be a foe. Chronic inflammation is not something that is suitable for having a healthy, happy, long, prosperous life. And so toxins in our environment, different types of microbes. Those are the two primary headwinds that I see that create inflammation, and when that inflammation exceeds our ability to adapt, which it has in my life many times. I know. Spencer, you'd asked me a question and I'm kind of getting into some of probably the meat of what we're going to be talking about today but love, but I got I got so sick. And I had a practice. That was probably what every chiropractor would want. I had people from flying in from all over the world, I had a 10,000 square foot building right next to the hospital at a gym. I had three acupuncturist working for me I had nutrition, dieticians, I mean, it was a big a big deal and, and then I got really sick and I couldn't fix myself, I didn't know what was wrong. And I went from weighing almost 200 pounds, and I'm, I'm 510 and a half. And at the time, I had no body fat. So I was really in great shape, kite surfing and doing all kinds of extreme sports. And then I from there, within a few months, I was like down to 140 pool and I was emaciated. And people thought I was addicted to drugs. Because I felt really angry. I was very irritable, because the inflammation just was like it was just eaten me up, right. And I couldn't find out what was wrong with me, I was going to a lot of my holistic friends and, and colleagues and they were testing me, but most of it was like functional testing. I didn't need at that point I needed like some legit medical deep, like what is really going on with this guy, right. And it turned out that after years of searching, I finally tested myself for Lyme and lime showed up. And then after that I tested myself for a number of viral infections. And I had just the most any any infection I tested myself for there it was. And you know, ultimately, that road lasted for a long time. And I was trying to treat for my Lyme disease. And I was trying to treat for the Epstein Barr. And I was getting better. But I just wasn't able to like get over the hump. And then I finally found out I just was living in a very moldy house. Oh my gosh, wow. Yeah. And so um, and so then then the biotoxin illness picture started to make itself very clear. And I really think it's all it's all that that clinical picture of biotoxin illness was such a was such an insightful light for me to number one, change my practice and start in a different direction on how I was going to deal with patients and begin to treat even much more complicated patients than I was before. Because it gave me the ability to treat disease at the most core aspect possible the most upstream and we can talk about that and some very actionable easy steps for people listening this to take. And the other thing is it inspired me to because I had a I had a company where I was making some suppositories and some nasal sprays and what I would call more like not supplements but healthcare technology. And it spurred me to basically just expand and we created a company called Midas and Mito Zan, which is a membership based company where we do education, we make a bunch of different delivery systems and products that really target I would say biotoxin metabolic disease but also we do a lot with like kind of spiritual and plant medicine and kind of ceremonial things with that, because I believe that mind body spirit, right and so the three pillars in my world for fully caring for my patients, our identity, divinity and vitality school. And so if you break that down, you know, we have to have a vital our physical body, the more vital it is, the better the brain, the better the brain, the more we can comprehend and the more conscious we can become. The better that we can treat other people, the happier we are, the more contribution we can make to our society and those around us. Identity is this relationship with ego in this relationship with our mission in life and our purpose and I divinity as a direct direct experience of God or the divine or the quantum or Allah, you know, whatever that word is for you. And you put all of these things together and you can have some real magic. I love it. So

Dr. Spencer Baron: 9:30

you went through quite a bit before you found a recipe that seemed to help you that could be a recipe for many others. Is that what you know what you went through to before you found out

Unknown: 9:43

well, I like to call into purpose paint. I like that

Dr. Spencer Baron: 9:49

I like I like very philosophical to where it is the functional cranial release which I find fascinating fit into all this

Unknown: 10:00

Well, so within my first year as a chiropractor so I grew up in Hawaii, we I think we talked about that before we hit record. My father was in the military. We moved out to Hawaii when I was five. And I never even left the island until I was 15. So like, like, I mean, I was like totally fully indoctrinated into the aloha spirit in Hawaii. And growing up and going to high school in Hawaii as a decent looking HOWLEY the local girls would obviously be like, Hey, how you doing you want to date. And they might or might not have broken up with the local boy that they were going out with. And so sometimes you would be finding yourself late at night at a park. And you know, you would have to defend yourself. So anyway, I got my nose broken one night. And ever since then I couldn't breathe through the right side. And so when I was in, I went to Parker in Dallas. And I remember, somewhere in the middle of school, somebody was having a conversation about this balloon technique where a balloon was inserted in the nose, and an expanded it and it like was just a light bulb for me. I'm like, I need that. And I asked him, Do you know somebody I like I just immediately was like, I gotta find somebody to do that. And so it's almost a year, year and a half later. I'm in Miami. Right? And I believe that's your neck of the woods. Yes. Yeah, I'm gonna be there next week, by the way, we gotta connect. Okay,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:40

let's do it. That'd be great.

Unknown: 11:42

Yeah. Are you familiar with the center? The centers out there in Miami, Laila and David center, they have the center Academy.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:51

Yes, I am somewhat familiar if, I mean, I used to treat somebody with that last name, too. So I'm not sure but we'll talk more about it. I'm more in the Fort Lauderdale area now too. So we'll we'll definitely catch up on that.

Unknown: 12:05

So So I was I was in Fort Lauderdale at a at a seminar and there was a guy Lou aren't and I think Lou aren't right now is he's dealing with some health issues. I think he might have either retired or semi retired.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 12:24

Do you know Linda might have a good? Yes, that is a friend of mine. But I haven't spoken to him in a couple years.

Unknown: 12:30

Yeah, you might want to reach out he's, I need to myself, but you know that that happens, you know, we we we I'm seeing that more and more people, people getting sick. And I think it's just a it's a product of all of the stressors that we're talking about, you know, and you start to get into the 50s and 60s. And there's a lot of things that are happening and a lot of losses that are occurring. So it just means we've got to start taking better care of ourselves earlier on. We don't wait until those crisis situations right. And I really have some amazing things I want to I want to talk about and try to stay on point with regards to that because I think some of the most important aspects and low lying fruit as far as us not getting sick. which revolves around ganache. Right the lord of doorways you guys seen the Hindu dot? God with the with with the the elephant character? Yeah, yes. Okay, so let's circle back and remind me about ganache.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 13:39

I want you to tell about the nasal. Yeah, the blue because I've been hearing more about it. I've talked about it more to people, but I want you to share your experience with that, please.

Unknown: 13:51

So do you see ganache over here? Yeah. Can you see he's got the the balloon inflator? Yeah, his hand.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:01

Yeah, yeah. See that? Yeah.

Unknown: 14:06

So so. So Lou Lou was there he was at this seminar, and he did the treatment on me. And it was just incredible. And so I went and learned the technique from the guy that taught him and the guy that taught him learned it from the guy that kind of put it on the map. And, and so then, after working with it for a while, I blended it in with a lot of the studies that I did with the Carrick Institute because I felt that it really, it really has a very profound impact on neurology, the vestibular system, the autonomics, the ability for cerebral spinal fluid to bring nutrients and bathes the brain and spinal cord. Just the things I have seen over the years over my 30 yours doing endo nasal has just been incredible. I wrote a book, you can find it on Amazon it's called it's all in your head. It's a very deep dive into a lot of aspects ranging from this idea that our craniums are contracting, they're collapsing. And it's it's, it's collapsing our nasal passages. And so you know, even like a lot of our kids become mouth breathers and we need to open this up, we need to get the oxygen in the nose and the nasal passage and the nasal passage. When air flows through the nasal passage, especially higher areas of it, there's nerves up there that pace, something called limbic oscillations, or nerve neuronal oscillations. And so these oscillations I don't want to get too into the weeds I do in the book. But these oscillations if you think about like everything's a rhythm, right, we have a sunup and sundown, you know, we have tides, we have hormonal rhythms, we have respiratory rhythms, our digestion has a rhythm rhythm, our lymphatics everything in our body has rhythms, right. And so these rhythms are very, very important. And our respiratory rhythm needs to be connected with our nervous system, because the nervous system knows needs to know like, how do I need to be right now? How do I need to react? How do I need to prepare, right? And so if we have a fast respiratory rhythm, then that might be a signal to say we need to be more prepared for stress. If we have a slow respiratory rhythm, we Mase may be more of an indication that we might want to be more in arresting and digest or a parasympathetic situation. But what if this has collapsed and that message isn't getting up there, then we have some dysfunction that that happens where these pacing signals don't occur properly. And that's what the science has really shown when it comes to mouth breathers is that there's dysfunctional limbic oscillations, and neuronal oscillations. And where that really causes most of the problem is in an area of the brain called the locus Cyrillus. And in Latin means blue spot. And, and so the blue spot is something that I've been extremely interested in lately, and I've been studying it in Great Lengths. And looking at the whole situation with this area of the brain and how this Brent, this area of the brain can be made healthier, because I'm finding it to be possibly the most important area of the brain for us in this day and age. And the reason being is because it's the master control system for norepinephrine in the brain, similar to the adrenals being the core area for cortisol. Right. So if we don't have the adrenals working properly, we all have you know, I mean, I'm sure the three of us have all had an adrenal exhaustion at some point, right? We've overdone it. Yeah, and you just can't get up in the morning, right? So it's necessary, we have to have the the gas pedal for for life. And so norepinephrine is that adrenaline in the brain? We don't have that and epinephrine is in the body norepinephrine is in the brain. And norepinephrine is what is, like I mentioned it's kind of the gas pedal. And so the blue spot is master control system. So it has fingers has it has nerve connections to virtually all areas of the brain. And it's kind of controlling whether we're going to have norepinephrine go up, or if it's going to go down. And it does that based on its pacing. What what rate is it is it is it pacing per second. And it generally goes between point five to 14 Hertz. That's kind of the range. Respiratory rhythm is, you know, two to 14, something like that. And so when when when we look at the the the locus Cyrillus and the health of locus arillas what that area of the brain controls is memory, especially short term memory, it controls mood, it controls our What's this, this an area of our brain called the salience network, which is our ability to actually just focus our attention on something. So if we get into a situation where there's a danger response where say something jumps out, and surprises us, we're going to be like super focused for a moment where we're like, oh my god, Kay, is that friend or foe? Do I need to do something or I do I need to act, right? It's this emote, this this, this immediacy and the norepinephrine goes up, right, our heart rate goes up. And we have this salience where we're like really focused our attention on something. And so that's kind of the extreme of that locus Cyrillus really getting activated, and it has connections to see too. So for chiropractors listening to this, you know, we're going to be wanting to look and seconded and turn our head to that threat. And so if we have a lot of problems with our C two, we're going to be having a lot of like, upregulation to that locus Cyrillus, which means, I mean, we're going to kind of get into this, but like, what does this really mean? This means that your ability to relax and be calm, and centered and and in the moment, right, where we all want to feel like that bliss, and that comfort, this is a direct, in direct proportion to how slow we can slow that area of the brain down. And this is the problem with a lot of situations is a lot of disease processes, create this wind up of, of the locus relisten doesn't allow it to, to pause right, so a complete pause would be either to one or below one. And if that doesn't happen at night, there's something really, really interesting that happens. And this is why it's so linked to depression and PTSD and anxiety disorders is that the memory consolidation is a concept where we take our short term memory that is stored in the locus Cyrillus. So literally, the locus Cyrillus has like a little thumb drive, as we're going through our day, we're storing this information in the locus Cyrillus. And at night, what it wants to do is it that thumb drive wants to unload its data, so then it has fresh area and fresh space to accumulate more short term memory for the next day, right. But what happens is, it can't unless we have REM sleep, we have to have a deep REM sleep, low serotonin, we have to have high, high estrogen, higher estrogen levels really matter with this. And also pain pain medications can really interfere with with this pausing effect. So I did a whole schematic and I can send it to you where there's like a diagram and it looks at all of the different headwinds that affect and charge up the locus Cyrillus. And then we talk about things, all the different things that you can do to take care of your local locus Cyrillus and calm it down. And what I found is that sleep is like incredibly important in protecting your sleep, so that you can fully pause that locus to realize, and we can take that short term memory and we can convert into long term memory where then it integrates with, okay, that experiences today? What does that mean to the experiences I've had before? And let me make sense of it and integrate it, right. And what happens if we don't do this is that you see people, so alcohol doesn't let us allow us to have REM sleep, alcohol, and a lot of drugs, don't let us don't let us consolidate our memory. And you'll know, you know, I have friends that have been alcoholics and they just never mature, right. And this is a real problem with with with addicts. And so protecting that sleep avoiding different types of drugs, there's different like for women, in their cycle, when they're in the high estrogen cycles, they have much better REM, but it's common knowledge in the lower estrogen cycles, their RAM becomes much less. And so you can imagine if they're not having that memory consolidation, they're going to become more confused about things. It may aid it may play a role in while they're why they're having PMS. But if we have a traumatic experience, and or some thoughts, some thought forms that are bothersome, we're going to separate those and we're going to be just going over and over in my mind because we're not we're not maturing, we're not taking that memory does those thoughts, moving it to our higher brain centers, making sense of it? And this is where you start really getting into the issues with PTSD and there's a lot of research going on at the low regarding the locus Cyrillus and this whole An aspect that we're talking about right now.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:03

John, let me ask you two questions. One, you talked about pacing the locus URLs. And is that a voluntary or involuntary action? Is it something you can control? And then the second question is in regards to, you mentioned alcohol affects REM, but about late night foods, or late night, you know, eating late at night me Does that have an effect? As I mean, obviously, we know it has some sort of an effect, but are you counting that as a more profound effect maybe up there with medication and alcohol?

Unknown: 25:35

Well, Rem anything that's going to affect REM sleep is going to have a negative effect on the the memory consolidation. Okay, so pacing, the plate is going to have an effect on REM alcohol, I mean, even a small amount alcohol, you know, I my my best recommendation for anybody is get something track your sleep, and start to kind of get an idea as to what is affecting your deep sleep, your REM sleep. And you know, I'm a big fan of high dose melatonin and I wrote a book on melatonin as well. And we have people dosing melatonin in the hundreds of milligrams actually, quite safely. If if we could, you know, there, I get a message almost every day regarding some misinformation that's out in the world regarding melatonin. And if it's okay with you, I'd like to clear that up right now.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:31

If you tell me about the pacing, if you can pace the if you can pace the locus Cyrillus is that because that was my original part of the question? Can Can you pace?

Unknown: 26:42

You? Well, it's through the respiratory system. So okay, breath, right. So as we calm down, we start to breathe slower and slower, right? So it's these receptors in the nasal passage. And that's and that's why the endo nasal balloons can be so profound, because you're you're allowing that connection to, you know, to the rhythm to be to be more

Dr. Spencer Baron: 27:08

prominent. Okay, now melatonin.

Unknown: 27:11

So Andrew Huberman I first of all I want to say I respect this man immensely. I listened to him I've learned a lot from him. And he's dead wrong about melatonin at least this is my my understanding from looking at the research I love that. There's there's a lot of I think there's some supplement companies trying to promote some sleep supplements that are non melatonin and they're trying to discredit melatonin in order to sell this is what it looks like to me. But the idea that melatonin is anti go Natl, okay? It's this idea that, that melatonin can delay puberty, or it could suppress testosterone is based on one little study that was done on hamsters who are rodents, they're nocturnal. And their their their sex hormones fluctuate with the mating cycles, which fluctuate with the seasons. And it's it's not it's not how it works in humans. In fact, studies on humans have proved that this system does not exist. So I would love to have a public debate about this, if, if he's, you know, if he's interested, but anybody that's interested in melatonin, there's no negative feedback loop. So you can take it exogenous Li You can take it as a supplement, you won't shut down your own production because your production is based on light hitting your eyes. So you're you're gonna build it up in your pineal but there's also this conversation about all the melatonin at a cellular level, because every cell in your body produces melatonin, every mitochondria, it's part of what keeps the mitochondria from, from having problems. It's the primary antioxidant that we use. So there's no toxicity to melatonin. In fact, as far as for hormones, there's, you know, hundreds of studies showing that it has a very powerful and positive effect on both male and female hormones.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 29:22

Pardon my naivety but we'll mill it and I agree with you and I also think by the way the pharmaceutical industry knows how effective melatonin is and they might be part and parcel in suppressing some of that that benefit or disseminating you know, unfortunate information but back to the what I was gonna ask, do receptor sites do they do they get? I mean, like, do you cycle melatonin? Do you take the same dose every day? does is it contingent on the person? How, I guess it's more contingent on the printer your point about that? melatonin.

Unknown: 30:00

Yeah. Well, so the question is do your do your receptor melatonin receptor sites fatigued you like with, with with a lot of hormones, what happens is the when you take the hormone, there's a negative feedback loop. So what happens is the receptors will down regulate, right? This is my understanding. Yeah. And this This doesn't happen with melatonin, which is really crazy, right? But, you know, when you look at melatonin, it's it's almost like, it's not like any other hormone. It is is such an incredible molecule that is involved with so many different aspects of health and vitality. And, and, you know, I went through my whole process with and I'm a bit biased based on my experience personally with melatonin, for sure, I will admit that. And I've studied the science probably as much as anybody besides Russell Reiter is probably the number one who I'm in contact with regularly, but I look like I was almost, you know, 60 years old at one point, you know, and I'm 53 now and I take 234 100 milligrams of melatonin every night.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 31:21

Are you referring to melatonin over the counter that you get at the nutritional shower or online or what? How is your How are you taking it?

Unknown: 31:33

So melatonin is according to the research two and a half percent absorbed orally, when we take things orally, you have enzymes in the stomach and first pass to the liver that breaks a lot of these nutrients down and and so we have to reconstruct a lot of these molecules after they go through the liver. And so things like glutathione and melatonin you know, they don't they don't absorb well orally. So I we this these are some of the things that we manufacture with my chosen at mydomain dot club. They we My best advice would be suppository but liposomal delivery can also be very beneficial. So our line of melatonin products are called Sandman

Dr. Spencer Baron: 32:27

are these repositories are they prescription I've never even heard of this is can it be over the counter or just through you is how's that work?

Unknown: 32:36

Well, you can find you can find melatonin suppositories on, you know online, outside of of ours, we we formulate them with various formulas like probably our most common. Sandman is got 250 milligrams of glutathione and 200 milligrams of melatonin. And I love that combination, because glutathione is one of the sleep promoting substances. And I found that a lot of people feel really good. Our stress really depletes our glutathione quite dramatically. And glutathione is helpful for viral immunity. It helps to detoxify us from chemicals and heavy metals. And it helps to calm down inflammation in the body and allergies, sensitivities. So use that, in combination with with melatonin can be quite nice

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:33

every night or when you think you might need it. Is there a risk

Unknown: 33:39

I found? For me it for me, I take it virtually every night. I mean, there, there are some nights that I'll take take off, but there are a lot of people I work with. That's not what they want to do. I would say if there's someone dealing with a significant health issue, or they're looking to really do some serious anti aging, you know, I would, I would consider taking it most nights. I'll tell you where it really shines is when you're under stress. Like if you have if you're traveling for instance, right? Like I don't know that I would ever travel. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Ben Greenfield or not but he's kind of a big podcaster and whenever he has a trip I mean he's like blown our phone up like I you know, I'm I'm out of it. I can't you know had to London without this stuff. But I agree. You know, because not only not only is it stressful when you're in the plane and you're sleeping in a strange bed, you're trying to figure out where you're gonna want to go. What a difference the taking and not just melatonin but a high dose of melatonin because not only are you addressing the sleep and maybe the change in time zones, but that he calls it a melatonin sled Tamar, right? There's something that just resets your system and you feel so rested after a night with with with a higher dose. But you know, some not everybody, not everybody initially will feel great with higher doses of melatonin, I found that some people will feel kind of sluggish and maybe not feel great for a few nights because melatonin actually detoxifies the brain of heavy metals, and your body will start doing some housekeeping house cleaning. And so it's possible that there could be some short term kind of, we call it Herxheimer. Right. So the word Herxheimer means when we have like some negative symptoms, based on some detoxification, or maybe our body's immune system kicks up, and there's some latent, you know, infections, Candida, or some viruses that the body starts to, like, kill off. And you might have like a headache or fatigue or some digestive complaints. And these can be actually positive things. Sometimes when you're first starting out with some sort of a program with someone that might actually be really good. Initially, you'll feel a little bad.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 36:21

You answered my, my other my follow up concern is that for those who might feel groggy, after taking melatonin, then the next night, it's almost disheartening to it's like I wanted to get, you know, wake up, energized, ready to go, but you feel groggy, and it's not all the time, but it's that you just explained it very vital.

Unknown: 36:41

Another another point is, is also that some people have their slow metabolizers of melatonin. And the same gene pathway that deals with caffeine deals with melatonin. This is a fairly, I think 20 30% of the population has this gene issue. And, and so that means that if I took melatonin at, say, nine o'clock at night, you know, let's say that, it's going to take me normally eight hours to metabolize it, but I have the gene issue, and it may be 12 hours. So maybe it's better for me to take my melatonin at like, say six or seven that night. And that way, by the time I wake up, I'm not as groggy. And the other trick I would recommend is, when you wake up, get some light in your eyes, like go right out and look at the sun.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 37:34

How did you find out that

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:36

you wake up at three in the morning, I started it's always dark. If it's light, I get nervous. A flashlight,

Unknown: 37:46

well, you can get blue lights. You I did a I did a post this morning, on my Instagram account. And I have these, there's these lights that you can get there. They're about I'd say four by six inches or something like that, right? They're like a panel. And you can change the color of them. And I put them up above my cabinets. So they're kind of like shining up at the ceiling. And I've got them in the corner, and you turn them on and they're on like blue, like a blue green color in the morning. And then you can switch it to read at night. So you wake up in the morning and you you've got blue green everywhere. And that's that's going to help right the sun's the best. Yeah, but if you're that if you're waking up, I wake up early to I'm up at four sometimes 330

Dr. Terry Weyman: 38:36

Yeah. How do you find out if your windows? How do you find a few windows slow? metabolizers? Where are you like you just said where you would have to take at six and 789? That's just some experiment you're you're with?

Unknown: 38:49

Well, I usually what I recommend is is how do you do with caffeine? You know, like, do you normally like need half the amount of caffeine that the normal person and also if you do caffeine, do you find yourself wired for a longer period of time than then what normally people are? Usually people know if that's them, and then I would just assume that they're probably they have that gene issue. Love this.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 39:16

This is great. All right, let's talk about another chemical besides melatonin meth blue. So methylene blue. So we know that a instead of giving you Smurf pee, you know, we know that it affects the hemoglobin oxygen transport to the bodies and it's good for energy production. But can you elaborate on as a clinician the effects of meth blue?

Unknown: 39:41

Well, it's a it's a synthetic salt. Right and it's it's the only it's the only synthetic compound that has ever been discovered. That has literally been proven to act on all four of the complexes within the mitochondria. And so I know you know this stuff, but this is just you've got the mitochondria, right? This is where, where the energy is being made. And the job of the mitochondria is to move electrons right in the process of moving electrons, it makes heat, right? It's an it's concert. It's called exothermic. That's the chemical name for it. And so it's moving those electrons through these four complexes. And they're named after, you know, one complex 123, and four, and the fourth complex is called cytochrome, C, and Seido is for Sal and Chrome is for light. And that the reason that it's called cytochrome c is because it can, it can use both photons, which is from light or electrons, which is from matter. So you have matter and non matter, which is, you can actually start to get into some interesting, spiritual conversations about that. However, what they found is that that, that the methylene, blue up regulates the first second and third complex by about 110%. And it improves the fourth complex by about 70%. And what you can do is you can add red light, or you can go out in the sun, and you can boost that even further. So methylene blue is considered photo dynamic, right? So there's a number of substances that are like this, where you can use light or photo therapy, or they also call photo bio modulation, and take the substance as well. And you get this really beautiful compounding effect. Now, probably one of the most anti microbial combinations, I think that's possible is combining red light with methylene blue. And in fact, that's what the blood banks do to sterilize blood. So if you've ever gotten a blood transfusion, you've likely gotten a little bit of methylene blue. And what they do is they, they, they put some methylene blue in the blood and then they they they irradiated with with a red light. And so we actually are doing that here in our clinic where we're doing an IV have methylene blue, and then we have like a laser catheter, so we can literally laser the blood. And this can be really amazing for a number of viral infections, including HIV, herpes, all the herpes family, epstein barr, we worked with the last pandemic, and I've seen within a day, like, on their deathbed to like walking out of the clinic, like, Hey, I'm fine. You know, I mean, just stuff that shouldn't be right. Yeah, so so it really holds a lot of promise. And you don't need to go to a clinic, I mean, methylene, blue absorbs fantastic orally, dosage wise, this is where you might want to write this down, is it's a half a milligram to four milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight. That's kind of like the zone, most of what you're going to see out in the literature is going to say that you want to be like on a very much lower dose, and most of what I'm seeing is, you know, 20 3040 milligrams, I found clinically and personally that folks generally do a little bit better with more towards the middle of that dosing schedule. But the reason that we have this schedule of half a milligram to four milligrams per kilogram of body weight, so like 70 kilograms is about 150 pounds, right? So you're looking at like an average adult male, and you're looking at 70 times a half a kilogram, that's 35 milligrams to four times 70 is like about 300. Right. Right, is amass about right there. Yeah. Okay. So so you have this, this kind of window, and you have to find out what is going to work for you through experimenting it because nobody can tell you that right. But you're safe to take it within that window and you probably can take a lot more, but not on a daily basis. Yeah, and especially if you're on an SSRI or a mono amine oxidase inhibitor which MAO Inhibitors basically prevent the breakdown of serotonin and so what happens is, you can get what's called a serotonin storm because methylene blue acts as an MAO i and i There has been some issues with people having serotonin storm 30% of the time that someone goes into a serotonin store, serotonin storm, they will die. So it is a lethal it's very serious. Those incidences were primarily there was five cases that were getting a thymectomy. And they were beget being given intravenous methylene blue, so that they could visualize the thymus gland because it's very metabolically sensitive, right. So when they're doing the surgery, the thymus gland was really lighting up. And the patients that were on SSRIs, actually, they died. And it was a big deal, and it's sad. And so then they had this warning that said, No methylene blue in combination with SSRIs or Mao and I am li inhibitors. But then Mayo Clinic came back, they looked at the data, and they they rescinded the warning. And they said only no SSRIs and methylene blue in this procedure in a thymectomy. and Canada did the same thing. But but the the FDA still has the warning. So any medical professional, you know, you just need to know that that's the situation that you're dealing with. Francisco Gonzalez Lima, stated in some interviews that he felt that it was a real shame. Because methylene blue had a very large clinical trial 1500 humans human trial for manic depressive and manic depression, and the results were great. Like it was a very favorable study. And so I've seen methylene blue really, really help depression, in a lot of cases in my clinic. And and it does, it improves mood, but more so in the higher doses, not the smaller doses. And and Dr. Lima was was very sad. And because the United States FDA just maintains this warning, and we've got this shadow on methylene blue, and people are literally afraid, terrified of even tiny doses of methylene blue if they're taking SSRIs. But this is what I would say anybody that is a clinician or maybe they have, you're having depression, and you want to look at alternatives from antidepressants, and why you might want to do that is that you want to take care of your blue spot, right? We talked about how serotonin prevents the pausing. And this is why you see commercials with with antidepressants. Well, if your current antidepressant isn't working, you might want to stack it with this new one. And it's like these people are stacked with like so many different meds, right? And it's because it's because whether it's like a like a Wellbutrin that's working on norepinephrine, while you're like charging up the locus Cyrillus already, like you're you're ramping it up. Or if you're on one that's, that's more based on a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. You're inhibiting the locus Cyrillus from memory consolidation. And so you're going to be perseverating on all of those negative thoughts, right? And it's going to be hard for you to pull yourself out of that. So initially, oftentimes people feel good, and then it kind of wanes, right. And that's because the neurology and the science really doesn't make sense, right? So we need to look at different ways. And the reason that I really like methylene blue is because in this, I'm gonna go out on the limb, this is a this is a kind of an extreme statement that I'm going to be making. But I believe that depression is 90% of the time a result of a chronic infection. And that chronic infection is causing an adaptive response in the body to elevate nitric oxide. And it's the nitric oxide that's directly activating the creating the depression, that depression is state. And there is some mechanisms through the locus Cyrillus with that as well. So what they found and the reason I've come to this conclusion is what they found is that one of the things that methylene blue does is it suppresses nitric oxide, it mops it up, and that's what the scientists believe, is the cause of the Depression. They've done studies where they took groups of people where they increase their nitric oxide, and the depression went up, and they lowered the nitric oxide and depression went down. So it was directly in proportion to this nitric oxide. And so, nitric oxide vaso dilates. It's good We want a lot of people take it because they want to go work out, they want to have healthier cardiovascular systems, right. But it's a rhythm, right? Nitric oxide is not supposed to be like something that you have up in high all the time, like, you don't need to be taking like, arginine like 24/7, right. So take it a couple of times a week during your workout. Don't overdo it. Or, but but so. So if we're treating the cause of the Depression, if the nitric oxide, so if the if the methylene, blue is calming down the infection, therefore lowering the nitric oxide, we're actually treating the cause of the Depression. And that's what I like, I want to treat the cause I don't want to be chasing symptoms, right? So you've got all these you've got all these psychiatrists and psychologists that are terrified to use methylene. Blue, because they're all on SSRIs. Right. And, and, and, and, but this is the strategy. So this is how you do it. If you are in the business, and you're dealing with people and you're prescribing SSRIs, or that's being prescribed to you, the game plan would be this, preferably run some labs, look at what your viral titers are, maybe look at Lyme look at some gut markers, if you've got some mold, kind of get some assessment to see if you have some infection in the body, right. And then if you if you treat that, that's going to be a great thing. But if you start to switch from, first of all, you you need to do this with your doctor, I'm not giving you medical advice at all this is just for education and entertainment purposes, right. But if one was going to start taking methylene, blue, they would take a smaller dose. And they would be doing it for a short period of time in order to eventually get off of the SSRIs. Because we want to be able to pause that locus Cyrillus because we want to start consolidated our memory, this is going to be a healthier brain healthier emotional state. So it has to be like an actionable step. It's not Well, hey, I can't take methylene blue and SSRIs Well, let's look at a transitional plan. Right. That's what I would encourage people look

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:22

at is your best time to take methylene blue, or does depend on your what you're taking it for.

Unknown: 52:28

You can take it at night, I found a handful of people that the first time or two that they took it if they took it late, it kept them up. But then once you get used to it, I think anything if it gives you a boost initially is going to interrupt your sleep.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 52:46

Do you find that the best way to take is just like orally or like put between I try that one time I put between my cheek and gum that was a mistake because my entire teeth turn blue and I had to go out and work. So when you do you find the best way to take it? And do you take it every day? Or do you take it just when you need it three times a week?

Unknown: 53:08

Well, you know, it's an interesting question. I've gone through some evolutions on how I've been personally taking it and how I've recommended it. Initially, I was having I was having my patient take it every 10 days and then taking two or three days off. And then I kind of loosened up on that. And I started to understand methylene blue a little bit better, and was looking at longer stretches, Right. but still with a couple of days off, maybe it could be a couple of weeks or even a month, then I'll take a couple days off. I'm actually on a break right now. I've not taken it for a couple of days. But I think I might have been taking it for maybe two months before that. So a little bit longer. But I've you know, I've been feeling fine. I think as long as you're within the window, and you're not taking excessive hundreds and hundreds of milligrams every day. If you're kind of in the lower spectrum of that half a milligram to say maybe two milligrams per kilogram, you're safe to take it every day for sure. There's been studies like the study with depression, they had people on three or 400 milligrams for like a couple of years and there was no problems. There's people that their studies where they were using methylene blue, and having people for lifetime on on, you know, higher doses with no problems, but it could accumulate and what happens is I felt that where it accumulates a little bit and you start to feel a little bit more lethargic. And I took a day or two off and then I started taking it again and I felt that really good feeling that I get when I take methylene blue again. So again, it's really unique. It's going to be, I think, different for everybody. But if you're if you start taking math Lean blue, and then you notice that the effects start to wane a little bit, take a day or two off, start back on and notice does that seem to work for you and maybe mark on your calendar when you took it and when you didn't, and start to kind of get a feel for what your rhythm would be?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:18

Okay, so I'm gonna tell you right off the top, we're gonna we have to close we have to, we are absolutely unquestionably having you on for a part two, if you don't mind, because we have a whole host of other questions that we want to ask you. But we have run out of time, we never

Unknown: 55:38

even got to ganache either. I will get

Dr. Terry Weyman: 55:41

to that, well, part two will be called ganache.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:48

And I want to tell you that this was fantastic information. I love hearing what you have to say. And if you're in town, you know, give me a call or text me or something like that. And we'll get together. But I

Unknown: 56:03

like coming from you. You know, you've been you've been in you've really you're an amazing doctor and what you've done, and you've inspired me. And so for you to say those words, it means a lot to me. Thank you. Well, I'm

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:16

not as I'm not as big of a man as him. But if you're ever when you're in the Southern California area, especially in your best, you give me a call. And I'd love to hang out with you.

Unknown: 56:26

And Terry, you as well, my friend.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:32

Right. We're all good. But we

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:36

know he can reach his REM sleep tonight. Yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:41

But, hey, we're so proud of you and for what you've done for our profession and getting us out of the realm of backpackers. We're so proud of what the work you've done. And we would love to continue this conversation and a part two, because I think the words you have can help so many people and that's what it's all about, the more we can help people and get people to think beyond their little box, I think is what it's all about. So we really love you and appreciate you man.

Unknown: 57:10

Well, you know, I am such a fan of natural healing. And you know, the power that built the body is the power that can heal the body. And that innate intelligence and that Universal Intelligence flowing through the body gets blocked sometimes, and it's not always a subluxation in the spine. Sometimes it's a subluxation in the cranium, right? Or sometimes it's a subluxation in the mitochondria, right? Mitochondrial subluxation

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:45

Are you have

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:49

a blessed day? Yeah, that

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:50

was great.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:51

I'll reach out to you and we'll put part two so thanks, man. Appreciate your time. All right. You bet, seeing

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:02

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.