Unlocking Peak Performance: Dr. Jason Amstutz's Game-Changing Secrets

Welcome to the "Crackin' Backs Podcast," where we uncover the secrets of total body optimization! Join us as we dive deep into the world of chiropractic, osteopathy, and advanced soft tissue treatments with the renowned Dr. Jason Amstutz. Discover how these groundbreaking techniques differ from the ordinary and unlock unique benefits for both athletes and everyday enthusiasts.

Dr. Amstutz's expertise extends beyond the surface, delving into biomechanical dysfunctions and the incredible impact of early detection on your overall health and performance. Prepare to be amazed as we explore the science behind manipulating muscle fibers' gamma bias to provide instant relief from chronic pain and boost strength in injured muscles.

SomaTherapy takes center stage as we unravel the significance of space and flow within your body, enhancing health and resilience in ways you never thought possible. Learn the art of ELDOAs and how simple self-exercises can transform your disc and joint health, seamlessly fitting into your daily routine.

Discover the harmony between osteopathic principles and traditional chiropractic practices, echoing Dr. Amstutz's belief that 'structure dictates function.' And if that's not enough, witness the fusion of strength and conditioning with injury prevention, all within a holistic approach to supercharge athletic performance and keep you injury-free.

Don't miss out on this mind-blowing journey to a healthier, pain-free, and optimized you! Tune in to the Crackin' Backs Podcast now!

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:01

Get ready to crack the code to better health. Join us on the cracking backs podcast with Dr. Jason Amstutz, where we uncover the secrets to unlocking peak performance, relieving chronic pain and enhancing your musculoskeletal health. Discover groundbreaking techniques that blend chiropractic, osteopathy, and advanced soft tissue treatments. Don't miss this exclusive conversation with Dr. Amstutz as we delve into the science of biomechanical dysfunctions, the power of trial Genex Soma therapies fluid flow magic. l dough is for joint health and the synergy between osteopathic principles and traditional chiropractic practices. Whether you're an athlete or just seeking a healthier pain free life, this podcast is your ultimate guide to better you.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:59

All right, or man from Philly. Well born raised in Philly, I have to start with the After After we started. You know, Dr. Jason, you know, I got when I was kind of looking you up at all, I get fascinated because you use a combination of chiropractic and osteopathy, which is, you know, at first when I first went the carpus called the Osteopath for the enemy. And now now they're just frickin awesome. But you did a combination of both and advanced soft tissue treatments in your practice. What the kind of thing I want to kick off to get listeners engaged right off the bat is what the the traditional methods and what's unique benefit to the athletes and the non athletes by using these different combinations.

Unknown: 1:45

Well, I mean, if I may, his do a little historical touching. I'll be brief. The whole chiropractic osteopathy thing, I didn't realize until maybe 12 or 13 years ago, in my ignorance that it was really about potentially Palmer taking a look at the body after being in class with Andrew still, right? And one person says potato, the other says batata. One says the rule the artery is absolute. And the other said no, it's the nerve. But and this tricky, old traditional osteopenia is mainly alive in Europe and Canada, who I stumbled across a really phenomenal one in 2011. I mean, the answer to your question is, the chiropractic construct is an incredible one. But it's not the complete package of the physiology, and histology of the body. And you can talk about joint mechanics and how those things are different. Or we can talk about the physiological effects of I don't know breathing, or whatever, all these things that have like these individual components around sports, chiropractic in particular, and how they all really are kind of summarized and summarized, and what's the proper word utilized in these traditional osteopathic ways. And there's, it's a dying, it's a dying art and and thing, chiropractic has actually taken a bigger stronghold in all of these European countries where traditional osteopathy is still alive, which I think is really interesting, because I think, again, it's a piece of the puzzle, but it's not the broad spectrum. So more specifically, to your question. I think the number one thing is the manipulation of the fluid dynamics of the body. And, you know, step one ostial process, the apathy was the old hemodynamics you got to have blood, the root of the artery things that we're all familiar with, like that's what the other side was doing. Right? Oh, Andrew, still, he was crazy. You got to have blood everywhere. It's like, I don't know how crazy that is. But okay. And then it became more of the the fascial understanding both anatomically and physiologically, and the rest of our body is all some fluid, the whole entire thing. So when it comes to like, the immediate acute injury, and or the chronic ones that seem to be resurfacing with professional athletes and non professionals, I think we start with the move the proper movement of the fluid in the joint. And the synovial fluid specifically changes its fix a trophy, which is you know, is a big word, but it's just really, the viscosity can change depending on the amount of agitation or movement. This is a very simple thing from ketchup and from paint. If you don't stir the paints, you can't put it on the wall. If you don't stir the synovial fluid, the synovial fluid will become an impedance to the ankle movement long before it's a quote unquote subluxation or the bone doesn't move. Now something that's not as traumatic since the the towers goes interior, big as they got hit in a certain way, or planted or whatever, that's great, maybe the maybe the synovial fluid was never affected. However, post injury, even post adjustment if you're, if we're not careful, that starts to start this ebb more toward a gel or a solid and away from the really slippery viscous thing that we all study exists and that synovial joint, which is paramount for proper function. So it's this marriage between the bone has to function exactly how we all learn it, there is no, there's no hesitation in that, that people that aren't on board with manipulation, and or joint biomechanics, because potentially they have a different licensure. I mean, hey, that's okay, too. But, I mean, we all know that you got to start there. So that piece of the puzzle doesn't change doc. But I think this understanding of this fluidity, we call it of the actual joint, and then related joints in the chain, that potentially matters just as much as whether or not that talus is anterior.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:02

How do you identify, you know, joint, if you call them fixations or biomechanical dysfunctions? How are you identifying them?

Unknown: 6:12

So, I mean, we're going to talk about an extremity because it's easier the ankle, for instance, either way, I mean, well, I mean, yeah, I guess that's it, there's another can of worms behind that, which maybe we'll touch on. The, we'll stick with the ankle. This pumping technique, this osteo articular pumping, which has been a construct of modern day osteopathy around the world. For a long time, it's a lot of general osteopathic pumping it depending on what what you're familiar with with osteopathy. But my mentor gave a took it to, you know, the nth level, you know, at the level that I teach the pumping in the United States, which is all first year therapy, stuff that we teach that I teach, it's, I don't know, three or 400, different pumping techniques, first, specific to the joint, and every bone pretty much in all the directions that we kind of conceptually understand. But it's this more fluidic dynamic model involving both the ligaments and the fluid. Because once you get outside of the joint, now you have to talk now the ligaments play a role in this spring like effect, or whatever it is, it's not just a, it's not just a rope, right, the quality of the ligament, and just on the outside, call it a capsule. And just outside of that, you know, pick your atfl or whatever you like, these things all have to function as a complicated Bucha fluid dynamics system. So to answer your question specifically is this pumping really becomes dark. After you practice it a little bit, you start being able to feel the difference between one ankle maybe anatomically and structurally is sound because you adjusted it yesterday or you adjusted it today or somebody else adjusted it. But this whole like squishy, this kind of like gray area of is there a little bit of space? And is there this like ability for this joint to really breathe with this fluid because the fluid and the ankle, especially the mortise joint in the subtalar that is the anti compressive nature of the joint, you better not be riding on your hyaline cartilage surface of your tibia on your talus, or you will destroy your talus. And we see that in sports all the time. hard ground sports, you know, basketball courts, NFL, because of the power and the forces, you got to have that fluid cushion in there. That's what's anti compressive at the talus. So hopefully that answers the question. So,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 8:51

okay, want to take an ankle, you know, you got 150 different ways to move an ankle, it's a but totally How are you comparing it to the other ankle? Are you comparing it to a standard in your head? How do you know it's hyper mobile or hypo mobile?

Unknown: 9:05

You know, I think the hyper hypo mobile is, you know, we're talking about either end maybe of a spectrum, right. So from the hypo mobile thing, the first thing that goes is is there those that have this liquid kind of feeling to it, is it free, is the whole thing free and the talus is still out of place. That's a different feeling ankle than the one where the guy sprained it or the woman's sprained it six other times since 19. You know, since 2010, and that one feels like not only is the talus in that thing stiff, but the whole thing number one, it looks a little more swollen than the other side. It's like oh, yeah, the fluid never went away in that thing. It's still healing, am I? When was the last time you cut yourself? How long would it take to heal 16 days, okay, you don't have a healing problem. You got to fix a tropic ankle fluid dynamic problem. And so We'll be comparing it to the other side, if you're lucky, the other side is normal, right? Depends on what sport. Right. And if you don't have that you really develop this, this other sense of this, this micro movement, like if we talk about a mechanical thing I speak a lot about the micro movement of the joint micro movement, or the talus in this case would be plantar flexion, Attalus, slides, anteriorly, does a little bit of an internal rotation and goes down on the facade of the calcaneus. Right? Like, those are the micro pieces of that system, if you will, and then when you go into dorsiflexion, it sure as heck better move posterior Li and do the anti of that, the reverse of that. So it can hide, so the ankle can dorsiflex dorsiflex properly. So sometimes you can make these things happen, because they're loaded, or because, you know, oh, yeah, it kind of works or moves. And it's really not a joint fixation anymore. But it still doesn't feel right. And this is when you get into this gray area of the fluid, there's gotta be something with the fluid, we're not talking about blood I'm not talking about, there's too much venous, you know, there's not enough venous return, and you get it, that's a different problem, right like that has to be accounted for to you got to be able to tell the difference. But a lot of these older chronic injuries, I believe, show up in the office is not only more of a joint fixation, but also, the fluid shape of the flu is not constantly moving, it gets thicker, because it stagnates and pulls there. And then it's harder to get out, it's harder to change the fluid to go out. And that's a big piece

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:39

is that when you talk about pumping the joint, yeah,

Unknown: 11:43

you're pumping the joint to change, because so the pumping of the joint, from a basic fundamental understanding is, I'm creating a bigger volume, which drops the pressure slightly. And then I'm starting to oscillate that I let it go. And then it increases the pressure. Well, it's this change in pressure, that will ultimately change the fluid dynamics in the joint. And part of that fluid dynamics is not only to move it, but to also change the viscosity. And if you do that, I mean, this is where it's a lot different. Sometimes with some of these chronic ankles, that's the big thing. Maybe I have to do whatever technique 100 150 times, huh, like you'll change it right on the table. So difficult the look and feel

Dr. Spencer Baron: 12:32

different than hvla, or high velocity, low amplitude manipulate, you're talking about gentle pumping and certain directions

Unknown: 12:40

yet, depending on which way potentially depending on which way the bone needs to move, similar to an adjustment mindset. Or first and foremost is you got to have space and you have to have fluid. So the number one place in the ankle is you sure as heck better have space between the talus and the tibia. And that and the fluid that's in there, if it's not already squeezed out because you got an x ray and the whole thing's compressed together. That doesn't mean it's gone. That means that space needs to be returned. And then hopefully the liquid fills in the difference. Now you have a protected talus from the tibia banging on it over and over. And that's when we see what compression fractures, bony edema and changes in young athletes and they start destroying their talus. high ankle sprains. high ankle sprain, that's a big mechanism, right. That's how it's turned so much. It wedges, the tibia and fibula from each other, injures the this the ligaments involved. But very early, like the next day, you can pump the join. And then for some of us, right, you can also adjust that talus the next day after that too, which helps with this process of the body naturally moving the fluids. Because you don't need to be pumped to have proper fluid movement. You just need the proper joint biomechanics and use the joint. That's the normal way.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:03

Guy comes in with a knee or hip. Are you going to check the ankle first? Or maybe straight question you're going to what are you going to do?

Unknown: 14:15

I mean, in in this particular ask the OB the a new what talk about joint biomechanics and fluid dynamics in the same conversation. It all starts with the pelvis. Because all of the chains of the ankle and foot and up at the ilium are the sacrum. So if the ilium and the sacrum aren't doing their micro movement, micro dance, you can have a downstream fluid problem, let alone a biomechanical one. And yes, those are those are related, obviously, right? But I want to bring them apart just for this conversation. So but that doesn't mean I don't check the foot and ankle anybody that you know, have you read enough books and you understand enough you've been around. It's like okay, obviously the big toes got a function. The end ankles gotta move correctly, for sure. But if they have a bigger problem at their pelvis, and they came in to me, for a knee or a hip, I put more stock in the pelvis. Day one interesting.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:15

You know, I really appreciate Dr. Terry, I gotta tell you that, you know, selfishly, these are things that we've learned. And when we talk to people, we talk to people like Dr. Jason, it resurrects all this stuff, like, of course, what you know, sometimes right off in different directions, and that's a beautiful thing to, to recall or remember. So, I haven't, I have a challenge. I have a well, it's been a challenge. It's since been fixed. But there was a NFL referee that his whole world was running backwards. And he ended up what appeared like every once in a while I get this zapping pain in his ankle, because what I determined was that the tailless would, would subluxation or would would be in the wrong place at the wrong time, just ever so slightly, and you know, he would be like, jolted at the worst times, during, you know, during refereeing and right, you know, at what point now, I'm thinking hypermobility. Wow, would you have approached a situation like that? Or am I not giving you enough data?

Unknown: 16:30

I mean, there's just yeah, that's that's a tough question because of the because of the data thing, but we'll just assume for a second, we'll just take it down right to the ankle. I mean, yeah, that's the talus is notoriously move, it has to move anterior underneath these forces, whether you're running backwards or running forward, because for plantar flexion the talus slides forward. I think one of the biggest challenges through this through this methodology is we don't spend enough time on the anterior restraints, which are the tendons. Anti or I'm sorry, answer Oh, malleolar. The ones that are in front of the malleolus. They don't get enough attention. We have so much retro malleolar strength and tension, posterior TIB, flexor helices, soleus, Achilles gastroc, versus the extensor digitorum, the extensor, pollicis, longus and peroneus brevis? No, no, those are retro. I mean, that's really kind of it peroneus tertius. If they have a peroneus tertius, which is a 14% of the people, then they have an extra anterior restraint. So the talus going forward. So what I have found, we all have, since we're all chiropractors, let's assume we know how to put it posted early, and we're on to the next thing. And those cases, we actually shorten and annotate anterior, we shorten all of the mechanisms anteriorly to provide the next level of restraint in front of the talus, and the capsule and the blah, blah, blah, to help balance out to help balance out whether or not that thing has more of a bias to go forward. Like maybe what you're describing is, you kick it a little more or a pinches in the back, because now it moved too far forward. But I think very quickly, we our hands need to be off of them. And they need to be helping discern this tensegrity puzzle, which is part fluid dynamics, and part tension relationships and things of that nature.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 18:35

So how would you approach supporting all the anterior support tendons, I mean, how we

Unknown: 18:43

shorten, we shorten them and we use those we use, this is my ankle. And I want to do my tin anterior and I do you know, your normal dorsiflexion under resistance was full range. The problem with that is if we're talking about a bad template Tallis position over and over dynamically, you don't want it to be able to go so far forward. So then you do what we call the internal range of training, you can train a muscle in a couple of different ways you can train it and it's full range, the joint goes through its full range of motion, no problem that that provides, that's good for most joints and most tissue. Sometimes you want the muscle to only be worked at the end range closer to its longest, because you have a tendon problem that we call that the external range. I have I'm currently dealing with a patella femoral kind of fat pad issue, quad tendon articular as genuine problem. And all of my knee extensions, I only do from Max flexion to half way to put a lot more stress on my tendon. We call that the external range. That's good. If you need to lengthen something while you're strengthening it. rec FEM is always notorious for

Dr. Spencer Baron: 19:50

that. Okay, back to the ankle because I want to be clear. Oh, sorry, sorry. Okay.

Unknown: 19:53

So I was just describing the motion sorry. And then you have the internal one which is your at max contraction doors. So flexion in this case, and only go halfway the other way. And if you do that over time, you'll actually shorten the tendon and shorten the complex that's advantageous in many places. And for this Tallis anterior potentially doing it too much, because they run backward all the time. Maybe that's part of the strategy for the all those muscles I mentioned, you shorten them a little bit to help better restrain the talus.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:27

I want to get crystal clear, this is your ankle. Right? This is front and you're talking about dorsiflexion. But if you want to strengthen the anterior tendons if

Unknown: 20:40

you want to shorten if you want to short, short anterior tendons,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:44

okay, you're going from which way from here to maximum

Unknown: 20:49

from maximum dorsiflexion to only halfway into plantar flexion. So just okay, that will that will bias over time. You shorten from periosteum tendon, Appa neurosis, tendon periosteum. And that is advantageous in a lot of cases, Doc. And I think that's a big overlooked concept, that that the hamstrings need to be shorter, quote, unquote, and a lot of people because of all the anterior pelvic tilt problems, same thing, got the quads dominating anteriorly, you got the hamstrings that get three sets of 10. If you're lucky, you know, and over time you get this big wound up, pelvis, well, you can stretch the front all you want, but you might also consider shortening some of these other things. Potentially. The low abs, though ABS is another one. Sometimes your ads need to be short and an athlete not long to help fight against that anterior gravity line, anterior pelvic tilt, or whatever we want to call it.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 21:46

Okay, okay. Okay. You said hamstrings, I gotta I gotta ask. All right, hamstring strains, because of over extension, so you want to shorten them? Or it might not give it might not being fair with asking. Well, I

Unknown: 22:04

mean, I think for this discussion, I think we got to go back to the deep constructs, like I'm really trying to hone this talk for next week, specifically, you got to, you got to understand the pelvis first. If these guys are running around with an out flare, we call it nasty apathy. And it's the same thing and Gonzo did talk as an anterior Valium. And a what is that? A A iEX or an AI? That's what the rotation, right? You know what I'm, you know what I'm trying to say, right? If I take the ilium, and I rotate it anteriorly, my ischial tube on that side goes further on the ground. Right. Now, I've pre loaded my hamstring. That negates all conversations in my head of how do you prevent the injury? Are they overstretching it's like, well, if the pelvis is stuck in that bad position? You're gonna keep blowing it, right. So that's, that's the hardest part because a lot of times we're intervening with other licensed professionals, right, as part of our team, and it's like, hey, well, the hamstring is this or that. It's like, okay, that's great. But what's the pelvis doing underneath? Because that matters more sorry, that's the master. It's not because I'm a chiropractor. That's just the master, because that's the deep seated problem. You can't work your way around that. In my opinion, you can try. Yeah, I love it. All right. That that's an interesting, I mean, the hamstring thing and injury prevention, right. Like, that's where I think a lot of this stuff can, can really have an impact.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 23:32

Well, I definitely speak your language on the hamstring thing, because I I'm always conscientious about where that issue is in relation to the other side.

Unknown: 23:41

Right. Okay,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 23:43

question. Okay. I'm moving off of that. Now. Let me ask you. I could actually stay on.

Unknown: 23:51

Can we stay on it for less than 60 seconds? Hell yeah. Okay, I'd like to add this part to it too. I think the difference in the tendon physiology, distal tendon versus proximal tenant is totally different. And I think that happens because we train too much knee flexion. And we don't make the superior tendon more robust by using the pelvis as the movable piece and not the tibia. So in this paradigm, we, we anchor the knee like you would almost like a What's that new exercise that's caught on so much, the nor the Nordic. You guys know what I'm talking about. It's the one that's the one where you're kneeling and your feet are locked in and I'm on my I'm on my knees and my ankles are locked, got the Nordic. Okay, so if if you do the Nordic in the way that they asked you to do it, you're still overloading the distal tendon. We never tear it or distal tendon because of exercises like that and all the hamstring curls. However, if you took that same exercise, and you just loaded it A little bit with leaning forward, but then you took my pelvis and you made the athlete move from the pelvis without moving the knee. Now you were more accentuating the proximal tendon. That's how you make a more robust proximal tendon, which is where all these tears are.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:15

Okay, okay. Okay, hold on. Sorry. You're right. I've no I've got like three patients. I'm dealing with that right now. needles up there. I mean, in there there.

Unknown: 25:26

To there, but yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:30

I'm trying to he's, he's in Florida

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:38

just 1x rated. Alright, so let me let me Okay, so what if, what would be like, you know, they, they got that thing called the butt blaster, they're on all fours and they the foot is, you know, they're they're facing that and they're pushing up, but more more more femur and pelvis, you know, more femur and Isham movement. With that is that that's gonna focus more on the know if if

Unknown: 26:06

there's the knee bent or the knees straight, bent, the knees bent, then you're gonna get more glute max, then you're going to get hamstring. Okay, I mean, in my opinion, not that you're not going to use the proximal him. That's why we do RDLs. Right, we do an audio, because we're trying to load more of the hip flexor mechanism for the hamstring. But the problem with that exercise compared to what I'm describing, is you if anybody said just move your pelvis while you're doing an RDL, everybody in the gym would throw you out? Yeah, yeah, because it doesn't look good for your back. So, but the whole thing's, but this concept, I mean, this is this is the, the concept is if I want to move more with the proximal tendon, I fixed the bottom piece, and I moved from the top piece. And if I do the opposite, I lay my I lay down face down on a leg curl machine. Now I fixed my pelvis automatically, my pelvis doesn't move. And then I do a knee flexion exercise that reuses and makes a more robust distal tendon, which is great. But you have to do the same math for the upper one. Wow. Of course, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. This guy, this guy. I mean, not only is he the world's foremost anatomist and fascial expert, but he also more than any other osteopath in history that I've ever heard of. He teaches two years of exercise in his osteopathy program, if you can't reinforce these things that we're doing with our hands on a daily basis, and you're throwing them out to the wolves, have you really helped them? They got to come to your table again next week.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 27:48

I can't wait to do this.

Unknown: 27:51

Can we do too bad? We're doing that too bad. We're doing the upper limb. Next week, maybe we could change it. But do you want me to change it? I didn't change everything already.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:05

By dinner, we can do it private. I gotcha. Gotcha. All right. Let me ask you. If you could shed some light on manipulating tell me about this gamma bias of muscle fibers. And you know, if you go the

Unknown: 28:20

gap again, the game of if the game of bias stuff. What does it tell me about that? So you know who I originally learned that from? Is that really smart? DC out of Toronto? Like there's so many of them, but this one in particular, he's from a Estonia and he started transgenics. Okay, you guys, you guys know who I'm talking about? I can't believe I can't remember his name. I feel really bad. He's like one of my early mentors. Before I even get out of chiropractic school.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:47

Is this one of the machines that no

Unknown: 28:49

no, no machine, all hands on manipulation based on? Motor points and muscle. So it's part acupuncture with your hands. But the game of bias is the resting potential resting tension or tone of the muscle at rest. You can't be at a zero, you got to be measuring on an EMG. Or you can be a pile on the floor. Dead Man. Right? Well, you just be a puddle. You wouldn't necessarily have to be dead, but you couldn't get up. You know what I mean? You'd have to be like, Oh, I'm gonna get up now. Now I'm going to fire this and go Rex. So this resting muscle tension or tone, the gamma bias is a big part of injury. And this is when we see an ankle injury and if not, if you don't try to reactivate all of these separate pieces in the tri Genex model, or for us more globally, if you don't turn the dimmer switch back on for those things that got shut off because I injured my Achilles or I injured my plantar fascia. You know, there's a whole new program that goes into walking now. Don't hurt this. Don't walk this way because it hurts. That turns down all Well, the dimmer switches. Now I went from a 50, whatever some made up number down to a 10 or a 20, I can still walk in and be late and do things, but now I'm lifting my ankle too soon, or my, whatever. If you don't reprogram that, as they're part of their rehab, the dimmer switch is still off, and they'll pass every motor test or every pattern test, you know, what's the proper terminology I'm looking for? Uh, guys, these these screenings, these motors, these movement screens, movement screens? Yeah, they'll pass the movement screen all day long. And, yeah, I mean, these guys can pass the movement screens after the first time, you showed it to them. Right? Like you did the boom screen on them. I had a guy from the Falcons a long time ago. And we got to talk and he's like, Oh, the second time I went in there, I was no better, but I aced the test. Like, you're going to those guys, those guys can cheat the system after one or two reps. Yeah. So anyway, the gamma bias is a big piece of half making sure you reset all the the dimmer switches back to their proper, so then you can really go through your rehab and not have any, you know, inhibition because that you get muscle inhibition, right? Whether it's from a joint injury or atherogenic, or one from your back, but also just the movement pattern that was once detrimental to their high ankle sprain is now safe.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 31:30

Go back to the tone. You know, we tell tell what, when is there? I mean, we can feel, you know, texture to muscle, we call it spasm, you know? But how are you referring to tone and managing? I'm

Unknown: 31:46

talking on the upper echelons of function, right? Like this isn't going to be something that guy is dragging his toe because the muscles turned off. Right? I mean, you know, that's the other end this end, potentially, I mean, in the trade Genex, where they do just a manual muscle test just to see if the things fully engaged and if the timing is good, and stuff like that. But from more functional perspective, I think. And if you can't see it really in a movement screen, I mean, you really just go back to repatterning, the movement, like the day after the injury in the pool, completely unweighted. And you have them go through a regular walking striding running thing, no matter what their injury, because that way the program never gets the program gets messed up for a day or two. But you just retrain the whole neural plastic problem that happens as a cascade effect of an injury. And I learned all that stuff from this really smart, athletic trainer out of Philly. Bill Knowles, who has been using the pool as his main modality for injury prevention and fixing injuries for like 30 plus years. His whole construct is every injury that ends up whether it's a surgery or on our table is a physical mechanical problem. But at the same time, at the same place, you also have an injury to your brain, in an in essence, and that's talking to head injury, I'm talking about your ankle, that changes the way they walk. And if you wait until the end of rehab to reestablish this because now they're finally running after six months, you just missed five months and 30 days that you could have restored that the day after they had ACL surgery.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:35

There's a paper out there. It's an appropriate time to bring it up. There was a paper done where they did MRIs of the brain to see what activities are going on what areas of the brain were highlighted. Pre surgery, ACL surgery and post ACL surgery. So when they found was that, you know, all the limping and all the you know, compensating that you were doing nursing this injury while you're trying to walk or run remap the brain so deeply that even post surgery. You were still showing the altered gait.

Unknown: 34:20

The doc those guys end up back on the field cleared from the ortho. Yeah, yeah. With that kind of programming. That's so Bill. No, it was talked about that study. And then he also talked about another one which I think is really interesting and only just for mentioned in this conversation. That's another ACL paper that they had showed the upregulation of the eyes. It post ACL injury, because now the person has to look around to make sure they don't mess up their knee. So you do that to a football player. You train them in the gym, their knees totally fine. You're doing all this. He goes out to catch his first pass and he goes to look at the ball. doesn't look at his knee. And guess what happens? He loses all proprioceptive awareness of his limb, and he retires. That's some really interesting stuff. Yeah, that's a really interesting stuff. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 35:16

I love I love when they start looking at all these other things other than right injury itself. Right, right. Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that. Because

Unknown: 35:27

no, no problem. I thought I was like blown away this guy's lecture alone, I was just like, wow, there's another whole world of not understanding out there. And the papers and the research are just catching up to what he's been doing for 30 years. That's one of the most powerful things about what he because he's just been doing it anecdotally. And nobody wants to hear about experience. Everybody wants to hear about research. It's like, well, guess what the research comes, you know, 2030 years after 20. Other people already just discovered the same thing and their lat and their lab with their patient, or in the gym, or whatever, you know, it's not the other way around. It's really not waiting for that bus.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 36:08

Is there anything that you would do? I mean, in particular, that you learned, in restoring mapping of the brain after an ACL, let's say an ACL or whatever, you know, an ankle, whatever,

Unknown: 36:21

lower anything lower limb, hip, knee, ankle foot? Yeah, I mean, this deep water running this deep water running with a floated athlete. I mean, you go right back to, to redeveloping that motor program, literally the day after surgery, you got to know what you're doing. I mean, you got to be able to understand new wound dressing and all these things. Everybody shouldn't run out and do it. But conceptually, that's, that's the kind of place we are if we're in charge of post surgical athletes, which some of us are not everybody is. Or if you're part of a team that is responsible for that. You know, it, I think you got to really look at that neuroplastic change to get that to get those new found bad programs out of there as quickly as possible. And you can apply that to any limb or any injury.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:10

What about without a pool?

Unknown: 37:13

What would you do? Without the pool?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:16

Yeah? Don't balance pet or a Bosu ball?

Unknown: 37:20

No, you have to you have to work. I'm just talking about simple gait. Right? Of course, I'm just talking about walking. But the problem is, if you hurt your ankle bad enough, it doesn't matter how much you want to wish to do it on day one, if you're not in the pool, and he puts his foot on the ground, it's going to hurt and there's going to be a compensation. That's why potentially I haven't come up with a way where the same thing applies outside of the pool dock. Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:44

although they got that zero gravity treadmill, I forget what they call that that thing that's worth billions, $50,000

Unknown: 37:51

or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that that could be, it's okay. But it's really, if you've ever used it. I've had one in some other facilities where I've worked. And they're hanging you from a diaper from your pelvis. You know what I mean? And if we're going to talk about the pelvis, you can't be hanging me from a diaper.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 38:10

I got, I got it.

Unknown: 38:12

Can you take the ankle through a similar range of motion? Yeah. Now you start monkeying with the puppeteer up there. Who's the pelvis? So you know, that's my only thing with that. Makes sense. Yeah, the pools are big. The ball, the pool is a big challenge. But it's also I'm telling you, you get into the pool and just, you need to learn from this guy. It's like, revolutionary. It's great. But I want to learn, I want to learn it makes sense, right? It makes sense.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 38:42

I want to learn from you about Soma therapy. Tell me, so therapy.

Unknown: 38:47

psychotherapy. Okay, so my mentor Giveaway has had his own osteopathy schools in places like Toronto, and he still has one in Montreal. So he brings, he gets brought over 20 years ago, or 21 years ago, by some really advanced trainers in this country. They hear about this weird French guy who's doing these exercises, mainly to improve the space in the disk. And this is what potentially he's the most well known for around the world right now. l Dola. E L D OA. Have you guys heard about that before? Just from you. Okay, so it's basically these exercises where you put tension to open up l five, or to open up l four to open up L three, fill in the blank. So he brings so he's somebody finds out about him, and I'm not sure exactly who it was, and it probably doesn't matter for this conversation. And they're like, hey, we need to get this crazy French guy from Montreal to come down and teach us some of this weird exercise that he's doing that is supposedly really helping take better care of bulging discs and myofascial stretching and accounting for all The fibres, erections and all of this stuff. So they bring him in the United States, he starts teaching a couple of classes, and like hotel lobbies and stuff like that, like, you know, total cowboy style, which is awesome. Yeah. And it starts to build enough awareness in this country where then doctors of chiropractic in particular, two of the big ones, Keith pine, and Mark Lindsay, hear about this guy, and they're like, Hey, we got to learn more of like this exercise stuff is incredible. We want to learn more about your hands on approach and what you're doing differently. So instead of going to Montreal for seven years, and going through his entire osteopathy program, he starts, he plants, two little pods in the United States, one program, the soma training, which is 14 courses of his exercise, which I recommend to any chiropractor listening. And that's a whole nother realm of training and looking at the body. And then he also had another spin off, which is 13 courses of therapy hands on. And that's what I'm teaching now in the United States. I started in 2016. So it's the first year is pumping three courses, the next year is fascial treatment, specifically to the ones that we can treat, get your hands literally on third years, this tenant and ligamentous manipulation. And then the fourth year is treating the four principal diaphragms of the body, which starts with a thoracic diaphragm treatment, then the cervical thoracic diaphragm treatment, pelvic diaphragm treatment, and then finally, is the cranial vault, the cranial deck because that's a diaphragm to a very sophisticated one. So in 2010, those same gentleman wanted to know what the everything that he knew about concussion, because fluid dynamics of the joint in the hip is one thing. But if you start to understand and apply this fluid dynamic concept, to the brain, to the problems of post concussion problems, now you're really onto something. So then they asked him, hey, we'd like you to teach us all you know about concussion. He said, How many years do you have? And then part of that was these 13 courses, just to get your feet wet? And really understanding and really understanding the fluid dynamics of the brain?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:18

say his name again?

Unknown: 42:19

Giveaway a Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:21

I was I was pronouncing it like a gringo guy, Warrior. That's,

Unknown: 42:27

that works. Do whatever you think he friends don't care if you call him. Why are you?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:36

So I want to, but I read something about self. D coaptation. Am I? Yes? Tell me what is that? Self D

Unknown: 42:45

Co Op. That's the L dolla. So that's the Americanized version name for that abdollah concept, which is opening up the joint opening up, you know, between o four and o five, or opening up the hip, or opening up the AC joint or opening up the glenohumeral joint or any of the ones where you the patient can open it up yourself. I mean, these are some fundamental things. Now you don't need to set a hands or if you do and you only see somebody once a week, they spend the other six days doing these Eldo as this self de coaptation they're creating their own space and fluid and flow on their own time, which makes it more permanent.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:27

What do you think about motion? palpation? Things sounds like you're kind of doing some of that. No?

Unknown: 43:35

Yeah, I mean, I think motion palpation that was Leonard face stuff, correct?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:42

Yeah. And it's alright. And another friend from UCLA

Unknown: 43:47

July who wrote those papers that we read when we were in chiropractic school. So I'm if I'm not mistaken, Leonard fate study with some osteopath is also. Probably so probably so. Right. Like, for sure. So anyway, yeah, motion palpation. Of course, you got to be able to we and osteopath and other people, you got to understand the constructs of how the joints move. If you're missing that piece. You can do whatever you want to the glute max and the hamstring and whatever else. But that is the fundamental. That is fundamental, as we say, yeah, the joint movement is fundamental.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 44:27

It's a lot of juicy stuff.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 44:29

I jump in on something. Even though you know, I like sitting back and join this. You know, listen to this about osteopath. You know it's actually thank you it's it's given me a whole new light about osteopath. It seems like lately they've gone into the world of regenerative medicine and they're they're all about injecting now and doing stuff like that. Sounds like they've lost some of the the history of the art what made them great and they fall into this regenerative medicine. What's your thoughts? I

Unknown: 44:58

mean, you're talking about a different osteopath, you're talking about a deal in this country, which is they long lost their way. When they got brought in underneath the MDM, you know, we got shamed, and all of the rest of it right, our history, and then they took the stepchild and invited them into their camp. And so so the, they're great, yes, some of them have a little bit of a different mind based on where they went to school. But that's all becoming extinct. Like what used to be the big school of manipulation in the do programming in this country was University of Michigan, and or Michigan State, I forget which one. And now there's really now if you're lucky to have a do, they were there, they still manipulate. But I so I'm talking now. So a long time ago, everybody, all this education and all of this traditional stuff was only again, Canada, Europe and different parts of Japan and New Zealand and Australia, where they recognize that we're talking all the same language chiropractors in these types of osteopath, the type of osteopath that you're talking about. They hang out with MDS, and they do injections, and that's really awesome. But they don't have the understanding of the biomechanics. They didn't even get into that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:14

It is fast. Ever since they, I mean, like you can go to a dino do that's a gynecologist now,

Unknown: 46:20

right, exactly. Yeah, that's a different deal. That's a doctor of osteopathy, all these other do programs around the world, England, France, for park in Germany, where maybe the best ones in the world are in Canada. They're a Diploma of osteopathy.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:35

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Unknown: 46:38

I mean, that's just a semantics thing. But I mean, even in my studies, that, you know, if I decide to write my thesis, which I hopefully will, after all these years and all this money and time and defend it, then it would be it would be a Diploma of osteopathy. It would never even read it. It doesn't even register in this country. Wow. You know, it doesn't mean anything. So when you you know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:01

if you learned osteopathic maneuvers versus all the

Unknown: 47:05

osteopathic maneuvers doc are all chiropractic. You wouldn't you'd never there's no difference now, now when you talk about this pumping, because that's an osteopathic construct now. Yes, that's different that looks and feels different. But the the hvla and the manipulation is exactly the same. Hello? Yeah, there's no there's I mean, yeah, I mean, there's some different people that came up with some different techniques, but no different than we have a bunch of awesome adjusters and minds in our profession that have different ways of wow, I never knew I could adjust an indicator like that. And you're like, then you do that the rest of your career you're like, that's the greatest thing I've ever seen. Right?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:48

Right. But I always heard you know, osteopaths, they do the long lever, you know, mobilization thing. I that's from like, 100.

Unknown: 47:57

It depends on which camp? Yes, if they were part of a different, you know, tree of influence. Yeah, there's more of them that did more long, long lever maneuvers, or they do this, or they just do mobilizations. Yeah, this is like this as the apathy that that we're involved in is like, some old school chiropractic, and some new school fascial anatomy and fluid dynamics. And that is a perfect marriage in sports.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:25

That's great. I love it. Yeah, that's good. Terrific. So we're at a at a point where we love this section that we're gonna go into, it's called the rapid fire questions. I think you'll handle it quite well, because I seem to be quick on your feet. And some of the questions have absolutely nothing to do with nothing, but you'll have an

Unknown: 48:46

answer. Oh, okay. Perfect. And

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:49

based on up yep. Based on based on the theme rapid fire, your answer should be somewhat at least a sentence or two, but then we ended up going off on a tangent anyway. So if you're ready, I got five of them for you. Already. Dr. Jason? Question number one. When you travel what is the one thing you always have with you?

Unknown: 49:14

My EMF canceling device. Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:18

that was good. That was good. Is it a wallet? Is it just okay.

Unknown: 49:23

Did you get to hear it? Did you hear that? You guys froze for a second. Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:27

is it a wallet is it what did I have a I have a I just happen to have it on me right now. Right, buddy?

Unknown: 49:36

Always. This is from a company called Ares tech. I've had one of these. I've had one of these for I don't know seven or eight years and that changes because now is now there's 5g is the old ones just bought 4g and just tilt manipulate 4g. So that's my number one travel thing.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:56

Good one. See how we go off on a tangent.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 49:59

Does that affect your grant it doesn't affect credit cards or anything like that. No, no.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:04

his testicles

Unknown: 50:07

protects that's where it's that's where it should be. That's right. You want to Hey, you want to castrate a society? You bombard the testicles with 5g That'll sterilize everybody. My

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:22

phone right next to my my in my front pocket too. Perfect. I already have kids.

Unknown: 50:31

Exactly to me too. So I wear it around my neck now. Yeah, my mom yeah

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:41

beautiful, beautiful. Question number two you're traveling What is your wake up Good morning routine.

Unknown: 50:50

What is my wake up Good morning routine. I drink a liter of water on an empty stomach. Hi highest quality water I can get my hands on when I travel which is sometimes hard. Yeah. And then I go through a little quick four minute warm up to get the heat going in my body and I do four or five elbows. Self de coaptation stretches in the morning first thing when I get out of bed I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:12

want to see what those are when we get together in Vegas is there a particular water you drink?

Unknown: 51:22

It depends on the application but the cleaner more ancient aquifer based water that you can get your hands on non plastic matters. I mean depends on who you talk to you I got a French I have a French mentor. So you know the first four on the top of my head are all French waters. That's you know that's no mystery but there's plenty of good water in this country mountain valley spring seems to test out really well how to Arkansas. And there's some others but I mean, that's the most important vital nutrient that we ignore. Everybody wants to talk about organic foods and this and that and that's all well and good and grass fed and I'm on board with all of that. But if you're drinking shitty water, like come on.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:09

So Perrier, Delia,

Unknown: 52:11

no perriers got fake bubbles. Perrier Perrier. That's yeah, that's manufactured bubbles. If you put manufactured carbonation into water, it drops the acidity to like 2.30 my gosh, he might as well drink a Coca Cola

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:30

I'm a big drink.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 52:32

I was in Fiji. I'm gonna get hammered.

Unknown: 52:34

Yeah, hey, Fiji. Fiji is great. That's a great when it comes in plastic. That's not you know, but hey, that's a really good aquifer that's volcanically filtered. And every index gets the the energy and the minerals from that. It's good. That's definitely good. There's better but that's good.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:50

All right. All right. Question number three. What is what is the one thing you wish you had learned earlier in your career?

Unknown: 53:01

Earlier in my career? I think we got I think I mean, I think I think this this fluid model, this dynamic, fluid model of the body, I think that needs to be in schools, like this is not like, this isn't rocket science. This is how everybody walks around. Like where's the 80% water when the kids born? There's not swimming pools of it in there. It's in the tissue. It's in the college tube, it's in the extracellular matrix, it's in the blood. The water is in the blood, and a handful of other places. That's it. We need to be masters of the water in the fluids of the body. If I learned that early on, that was that's that would have been huge. That's pretty cool.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:49

Question number four, what is one thing you would like to be remembered for?

Unknown: 53:56

The legacy, I think breaking down the licensure barriers of learning in this country. That's like one of my things that we should all be, whether we're a DC or a PT or a fill in the blank, ABC, none of that matters. We're all studying the same human performance, body biology, physiology, like we all need to be helping each other and have the same similar Foundation, right? It doesn't mean everybody's got to learn to manipulate. But this is what I teach my students. If you're here and you're not, if you're not a DC, and you're not manipulating, then you want to be in this paradigm. You better go partner up and find a good chiropractor. You can't do it without it, everybody. Oh, and you know, and that's another that's what's a rub for me in schools these days. These kids are getting out and they're not even adjusting. Everybody's the new soft tissue wonder kid. I'm like, buddy, right? Like that's kind of stop. Yeah, that's not part of my agenda. My agenda is just like, hey, we don't Need to be studying together? Like I need to be involved in PT things, not just chiropractic things.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:07

Question number five. And the final question for our rapid fire questions is simply what is your favorite exercise?

Unknown: 55:18

What is my favorite exercise? Boy I think the biggest can of worms when we shall leave for the last one is a true proper bodyweight squat. We use the we use the squat as the ultimate complex coordination between the pelvis, the hip, the knee, the ankle and the foot. And the spine in the head and the scapula girdle. Wow, love that. Love it. And most people can't do it with just bodyweight properly.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:54

That is fantastic. Yeah, you know,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:00

I wanted to say earlier because you when you first started this podcast, you said something about oh, we can go down that can of worms. I've been wondering what like Dale held the can of worms was

Unknown: 56:09

going down. It's just that the pelvis is the center of the fascial connectedness universe of the body. Interest in all that means if a headache comes in, you go to the pelvis if an egg comes in you go everything is linked to the pelvis. The TMJ is only three connections away from my pelvis. It only takes three and I've already messed up my TMJ. Wow. Interesting. So that's that's the can of worms is like the pelvis and the pelvis. Unfortunately, in in a lot of the world is like still Oh, it barely moves. What's that guy talking about? He's selling you a hill of beans. All these researchers, all these people on Instagram, oh, is your doctor telling you your pelvis is out of place? It's like if you had any clue what that out flare that ilium problem with the hamstring. And the downstream consequences of that truly are I mean, come on. Like you can't even argue with that.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:17

So true. You know, you have a background also among all your other stuff and strength and conditioning, as well as injury prevention. How do you integrate that strength and conditioning along with the holistic approach for increasing out their performance?

Unknown: 57:35

I mean, I really have handed that off to people that spend their life doing strength and conditioning when I made the turn you know I did the strength and conditioning and training helping myself financially put myself through chiropractic school and that was a great place because you got to understand all that stuff you know and and I can talk the language and now I got the letters and all that stuff so I can talk to a trainer but ultimately when they get to a certain point in the post surgical return to play process you know those people that are way better than that than me but we set the foundation we set the foundation with all these proper you know segmentally Cake segmental capability is really what I'm after I'm after the post injury does all parts of the glute Meade work? Well Does all parts of the glute max work well does everything fire when it's supposed to. And then if you want to go train them and run them around, that's fine. If everything's been done on the front end, shouldn't have any problems. Everybody knows their job.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:33

Fantastic. All right, I'm gonna we're gonna end with this questionnaire. It's more of your personal a personal perspective, but looking forward into the future and what emerging trends or technologies do you actually see that might shape the future of our manual medicine? Or, you know, manipulation, modality wise? Yeah, you know, how do you how do you see our profession in the future or, you know, the concept of, you know, our treatment approaches and for musculoskeletal disorders

Unknown: 59:09

I mean, I I think that this newfound interest in fascia which is at its at its infancy stages in this country, in my opinion, to the likes and help of you know, Tom Meyers and others, but you know, we're 100 years behind the Europeans. They were talking about fascia and this fluid and stuff when Andrew because Andrew still started at all interesting, and that is we're going to keep going through this process of an evolution of dissection and other things which, you know, depending on who you do dissection with that carries its own set of pluses and minuses, not because of the skill of the actual dissection person, but because of how they prepare the body. You know, if you're using unfortunately chiropractic school examples of the body that lasts for six months and everything's dry and desiccated, you walk away from that by be going, Oh, I just need to treat it with a little bit more mustard. You know. But it but if you study dissection with some of these people around the world that are understanding, like we want this thing to be as close as we possibly can to be right when they drop dead. Right then you don't put any chemicals in them and you only refrigerate them and they only last for seven days. And you better get to work. Because that is what's walking into your office. That's right. Not the other kind.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:29

Right. Right on your right. Yeah, it's fantastic. Well, I'll tell you, this has been extraordinarily wonderful, informative show. Thank you so much, Dr. Jason.

Unknown: 1:00:42

Thanks for having me,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:42

guys. More than that. We look forward to seeing you next week in Vegas. Right.

Unknown: 1:00:48

That's right. We'll see you in Vegas.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:51

Thank you. Thank you very much, Doc.

Unknown: 1:00:53

We appreciate you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:57

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.