The Crackin' Backs Podcast

History in the Making: Crackin’ Backs First-Ever LIVE Show with Dr. Jason Jaeger at the Florida Chiropractic Convention.

• Dr. Terry Weyman and Dr. Spencer Baron

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LIVE from Orlando: Dr. Jason Jaeger on Innovation, Politics, and the Future of Chiropractic 

On August 23rd in Orlando, Florida, history was made. For the very first time, the Crackin’ Backs Podcast went LIVE in front of a packed audience at the Florida Chiropractic Convention—and the reaction was nothing short of electric. The energy, the crowd, the conversation—it all came together in a way that proved this show was built for the stage.

Our guest for this groundbreaking event was none other than Dr. Jason Jaeger—a chiropractor unlike any other. He’s a political advocate in the running for Capitol Hill, the inventor of the Universal Tractioning System, a collaborator who has broken barriers by working alongside MDs and PTs, and a dedicated father balancing it all in Las Vegas. In short—he’s a unicorn.

This wasn’t a TED Talk. This wasn’t a lecture. This was a raw, lounge-style conversation about the future of chiropractic, healthcare, and what it really takes to make an impact.

In this first-ever LIVE episode, we dive into:

  • How a young chiropractor in 1999 was already lobbying Congress for Medicare reform.
  • The invention of a spinal rehab device born out of necessity—and plenty of duct tape.
  • What it takes to convince MDs and PTs to collaborate instead of compete.
  • The fine line between evidence-based care vs. snake oil salesmanship—and how patients can spot the difference.
  • The never-ending subluxation debate and whether there’s finally middle ground.
  • Dr. Jaeger’s vision for health freedom and what he’d fight for first in Washington.
  • His blueprint to rebuild American healthcare—and where chiropractic belongs at the table.
  • One powerful call to arms for healthcare providers everywhere.

This is more than a conversation—it’s a moment. A live show that left the room buzzing and will leave you rethinking what chiropractic can and should be.

Now, for the first time, you can experience it too—the full video and audio from our historic live show at the Florida Chiropractic Convention.


Learn more about Dr. Jason Jaeger here:

Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or watch the full episode on YouTube.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Hi, I'm Dr Terry Wyman. When Dr Spencer Barron and I launched the cracking backs podcast a little over three and a half years ago, we never imagined we'd be here today in front of a live audience at one of the largest chiropractic conventions in the United States. Although I can't be with you all today in Orlando, I'm super honored that my good friend Dr Alan Sokolov is stepping in to co host today's show. So how do you introduce a man who refuses to stay in one lane? Dr Jason Jeager was lobbying in Washington before most of us were even practicing. He engineered devices that changed how spines recover. He built bridges between chiropractors, MDS and PTs, all while being a present father in the city that doesn't sleep. This is not a lecture. It's not even a TED Talk. This is going to be a raw conversation with a game changer who's turned spinal health into movement. Welcome to the stage. Dr Jason Jeager,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

great to have you here. This is a special podcast, and it is going to be live in a couple weeks that we'll put on the cracking backs show. We are very, very, very lucky, for more reasons than one, to have Dr Yeager a part of this program. It is deep introspection into chiropractic. And really I want to you know, it's funny, we were trying to find a speaker that would be as prolific as the one we accidentally found thanks to David Cruz from web exercise over here. Thanks, Dave. We appreciate you. He is not only his best friend, but I think was his best man at the wedding, right? Was Yeah. Anyway, enjoy this program. We're going to learn a lot in talking with Dr Yeager. And informally, I was quite fascinated. But really, you know what the truth is? Let's be honest. You know, when was the last time a chiropractor made it to Capitol Hill, engineered a rehab device and collaborated with MDS and PTs and and still had time to be a dad, a good dad and a husband, of course, all in Las Vegas. So today, you're about to meet that unicorn. Dr, Jason Yeager, welcome to the show. Jason, appreciate it. So I want to start out by asking you back somewhere you're as a kid in Vegas, what was it like growing up and lobbying for Medicare reform while you were in a classroom studying about spines as being a chiropractor and getting all this done? What flipped the switch for you and what was the injustice for that personal experience?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

You know, early on, I knew that, that for anything to happen. You have to have a voice. You have to be active. You don't get to complain if you're not out there doing something. And it's better to try and fail than to not try at all. So I wish there was a chiropractic school in Las Vegas. We weren't so lucky. I did my undergrad at UNLV, and then I had to go to Los Angeles, and in getting involved immediately as a class representative of the incoming class at Southern California University of Health Sciences, our then President Reed Phillips said, you know, we go to we go to DC, and we lobby for chiropractic and we lobby for Medicare rights. Would you like to do that? And I'm like, would I? So it just fascinated me, and what weirdo wants to be involved in politics? But that that was always me. And so every single year, from entry level to chiropractic school through graduation, I was always in DC knocking on Congress people's doors and senators doors and and tell them about chiropractic and and telling them that we need to have a seat at the table.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Yeah, the whole politics and Medicare. And I get scared whenever I hear both of those, but in a couple of days, I don't have a choice. I'm going to have to do the Medicare thing. But as far as combining them, especially for years, I took Medicare as a chiropractor. Now I'm going to be a part. So it's a very different spectrum that I'm looking at chiropractic and Medicare and politics now that I'm a couple years older than I was when I was younger. But it had to be some sort of passion, because when you're young, you're not thinking about Medicare reform right until you get there. So that

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

hands up. It's so true. And walking around the circle of perspective to be a recipient versus somebody that's a healthcare provider. So yeah, gives you some pretty keen insights.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Nice. So you're bringing up some juice here, and thanks, because I don't even want to ask the live audience. Here. But how many people don't like what Medicare does to chiropractors? Yes, all of you. Okay, so big shot. What do you think you're going to do with this whole Medicare idea?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Well, we have to do something. So right now, our two national associations, at various times, have brought bills forward. As many of you know, if you're a Medicare provider right now, you can choose to service Medicare patients, or you can opt out. That's a big thing on the table. If we get covered for more than the spinal adjustment, because that's all we get paid for. If we can get covered for the exams, if we can get covered for the nine, seven CPT codes, the exercise, the rehab, all those other things. What the carrot is is that you can't opt out. And some of you may say, I don't care. I just want to be able to take Medicare and be paid. Some of you want to be a cash practice, and you don't want to be forced to have to go through the insurance and all those details. So what do you have to do? You have to get to the hill. You have to talk to the congressmen, you have to talk to the senators, and you have to get support right now, one of the very big proponents for chiropractic is Jason Smith, and he's the one that that sponsored the ACA bill for chiropractic. And there's, there's strong support for chiropractic down payment parity. Now payment parity doesn't mean that we're trying to be another healthcare license type, because we're not. We're chiropractors. We're not we don't want to be an MD or a do or a PT or a nurse practitioner. We want to be distinct. We want to be individual chiropractic but we want to be honored for what we're trained in doing, and we're we're the experts in Spinal Care, and we deserve to be able to help those patients, and we deserve to make a living and be paid for doing

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

that well, I think you would get great support from everybody here and everybody listening, because as a provider, right? How frustrating is it for us to sit down with a Medicare patient to say, yes, you're a chiropractic candidate. Yes, I can help you, and you're limited to your 12 visits, and I can only adjust you, but I can't even examine you. And have a fall under Medicare, right? Do you get frustrated with that? That's like the real so all the support

Dr. Spencer Baron:

in the world. So what are the things are we rallying for that we could be covered by it, because typically, some of the chiropractors out there, they'll hire a medical doctor to sign off and, you know, be able to take, be able to, you know, have more opportunity for reimbursement. What are we trying to do here?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Yeah, so, so there's a few ways to go about it. The legislative path is long. It's arduous, it's difficult, it's it's a road full of potholes, and you have to be ready for failure after failure after failure and to not quit. That will get us paid equally. Ultimately, if we can get Medicare reform where we're covered for all the codes that we do, what that will do is trickle down into the general insurances, your blue crosses, your anthem, but each of the 50 states, plus the territories, they all have their own laws, and they have their governing laws with their divisions of insurance. And so it's 50 different sets of rules. You have to go into each one of those states and get those rules changed to where you're not limited in the number of visits that we're allowed to see a patient. That's a common thing. You get six visits for chiropractic, or 12 visits or 20 visits. And sometimes it's enough, and many times it's not. I need that diagnostic choice to be able to make that decision so that we can best provide care for the patient. So Medicare is a good start. You have to then hit all the 50 states, and then from there, once the laws change, you have to actually get these private companies that are for profit, and they've got a mission to churn a profit for their shareholders, to change the rules, and they've got deep pockets. They're billionaires, right? So they're going to fight us. Well, with that

Dr. Spencer Baron:

said, because we have lay people listening to this podcast as well. What does that actually mean that to try to get the Yeah, I mean, why Medicare? Why is Medicare the target first?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Well, I think you can run dual paths, right? So, so we had mentioned earlier that some people bring in MDS. My group did that right? Because, as we started identifying in 2004 while I was in practice that we need to change these laws. We also had to survive in 2004 in Clark County, Nevada, which is the county where Las Vegas is governed. It was one of the highly most prejudicially reimbursed counties in the country. And so what they did is they capitated us on visits, and then they capitated us on $34$34 no matter what you do. $34 for the exam. Well, what if I want to adjust on that day? Great, no problem. $34 what if I need to do X rays on the patient? Same answer. What if I need to do. Do neuromuscular REIA, traction codes, electrical stimulation and ice. Same answer. $34 so to incorporate and work with a medical doctor is a sound right now strategy that allows a business to give the best healthcare for the patient, okay, but at the same time you run this path of like you said, why go Medicare first, Medicare will trickle down to the other insurers. Do you only do Medicare first? No in Nevada. Nevada's Chiropractic Association started in 2017 and got its butt kicked through three legislative sessions, until in June, the governor just signed a law that chiropractors shall be paid equally with other health care provider types and have no capitation on the number of treatments they give their patients.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Wow, that's awesome.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

He shared something with me yesterday. I want you to express your brilliance for numbers. What you said to me yesterday, you know where I'm going with I know

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

where you're going. So we were, we were talking about, what's the financial impact for you, and then we also have to walk around the coin and what's the financial impact, and then, and then maybe the hurdles to the government, to the taxpayers. So we know, get reimbursed for Medicare, let's say in the $26 range for the visit, if we got covered for fee for service. And let's just say that that the work you did in that day, you got you billed and got paid for 200 more dollars of service. If there's 70,000 licensees in the US, it may be more than that. There's about 100,000 NPIs. Let's go with 70. And if you see approximately 10,000 visits in a year, right right around 180 200 visits in a week. It's 140 billion. Within 40 billion with a B, B, with a B bill. It gets dumped into the chiropractic culture, philosophy interests, growth, cultural authority. What changes with $140 billion and then you go, okay, the numbers astronomical. We're not going to get an extra 200 maybe it's 100 Okay, so fine. We'll take 70 billion.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Right, right, right. Thanks for that. That was fascinating. I'm impressed with the numbers. You know, I'm gonna do you have anything to tag onto that? Yeah,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

because you kind of slid something in, and how you practice now with medical doctors and other healthcare providers, and you're not in that chiropractic box, and I assume that's for more than just the reimbursement idea, but In the sports medicine world, where we kind of live, that's what sports medicine is. It's communication I'm working with, like providers, and that's what we feed off of so how is it on a day to day? Because I don't have that my clinic, how is that day to day and being able to be that much more supportive to your patients.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Let me go into some of the foundation first and talk about some of the challenges and the hurdles. So there's chiropractors are funny, and we get we get told that we circle up the wagons and we shoot in. We have to stop that. Stop it. Okay. Stop it. Second, one of my good friends in Reno he called another good friend in Vegas instead of calling me when I brought in medical providers and PTs, and he started telling her about me being a sellout. You're a sellout. What are you doing? How dare you work with MDS? Some in chiropractic have that perspective now. My perspective is, if you're doing patient centered care, it's ethical and evidence based. Let's have a big tent, and we've got a big tent for the approaches. We used to call it technique, a big tent for the approaches we do and honor that right? Don't fight about you. Don't do it my way. I don't do it your way. So I call them directly, because I don't appreciate the side talk. And I'm like, Hey, I heard you said something about me. He's like, What are you talking about? I go, I heard you said I was a sellout. I go, I just want to let you know you've hurt my feelings. And I thought we had enough of a friendship that you would tell me directly, and I encourage you to never do that again. Nice. Yeah. And I his ears popped,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

yeah, I and I know Dr Barron was going to go a very similar story. I got trained in dry needling by structure and function. Who are here, and I ran into somebody in an airport that was a chiropractor that taught dry needling, yeah. And it's like, Hey, how you doing without mentioning names? Hey, how you doing? What's going on? And he wouldn't even talk to me, right? Like, why he's not talking to me? And then we're in line. We're in Southwest, and we're in the C group, which is usually C for center seat, so we're in the back of the line. I'm just trying to make conversation. He's like, why are you talking. Talking to me, you're a sellout. I'm like, what he said? Yeah, you took dry needling from someone that wasn't a chiropractor. I'm like, please. So, I mean, we all have experienced what I mean that yes, that circle the way, yeah, right there. So

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

a good friend of mine and we had, we had foundation and friendship and and not trying to figure out the differences between the MD degree and the DC degree, and what do you do, and what do you not do, and what are your strengths limitations? We started with foundation friendship. From there, we built the professional relationship on research. So in our practice, we use an approach that's the most peer reviewed, published approach of all chiropractic, of any chiropractic, all the chiropractic research combined, we've got everything from case studies to systematic reviews, randomized trials. That's that's the language that a health a medical health care provider loves. So we started finding professional common ground on the research. From there, what I did is I started converting him into being a chiropractic, principled provider, right? So our practice has no medication, right? Our practice is Phys Med, but there's elements and scopes within his licensure that we can do more for the patient by having that MD degree. And then he builds in a team of assistants that are medical assistants, but they're truly trained as spinal rehab techs, and that's for the exercise and the physio and the traction and the passive and the active therapies that we do. And then do you as a chiropractor, want to work on elbows or shoulders or knees? Some of you, yes, great. Do that. I want to honor that. If you don't, maybe you want to bring in a PT and build a PT practice. Because don't you have people that come in for spine and need spine help, and then later on they need help with their knee or their shoulder or their ankle? Can't we offer those services and the patient? There's not a better way, a more couth way to say it, but having a one stop shop, right? Your one stop shop for total body wellness, and where there's things that I don't want to do or that we can't do, we're offering everything there, but it's drug free, surgery free, following the tenants of chiropractic.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Yeah, so just to tag on that, because you're in that perfect work world for a lot of us that are in private practice, and it's just us and our little What do you have to say to those chiropractors about getting out and surrounding themselves with the right people to simulate what you have? But unfortunately, it's not in that one stop shop that you

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

have. You know, there used to be a fear of chiropractor on chiropractor opening up too close to each other and an unhealthy competition. Remember that? Yeah, that those days, and then the fear was interdiscipline. It is. It is the most delightful workspace to work in, to be able to collaborate with people that are trained differently and think differently, and you can triage a case and offer the best to the patient, things that you wouldn't think of. How do you do it? You just get in there and you start doing it. You respect the other. You don't try to be a know it all. I've had neurologists ask me questions about the spinal adjustment, and as a young practitioner, I'm like, you're an MD. You don't know this. And they're like, No, I'm not trained in what you do. I don't know that. And I was like, wow, how respectfully humble, right? And so knowing our lanes, knowing our differences, and we all bring something to the case and to the patient.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Some of you often heard me mention this before, and that is to understand the nomenclature of the medical doctor or the physical therapist and really be able to be bilingual in your ability to describe things chiropractically, and be able to describe things in the medical sense. And if you can jump into their world and speak that nomenclature, you have a winner. You have a partner. And whether it's orthopedic surgery, whether it's neurosurgery or what have you, and you'd be surprised when you can speak that language, just similar to I made a perfect example earlier about if you had a Spanish speaking patient that only that spoke broken English, would you jump in and start rapping to them in English only, or would you be more sensitive and try to speak their language and then draw them in to your understanding and belief of what you do for a living. So you had mentioned, with that, said, You had mentioned something to me yesterday that we both agreed on immensely and are very passionate about professional prejudice. Yeah,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

go with it. Yeah. So when we started lobbying for payment equality and parity, there's a when the Affordable Care Act came out, there's a section 2706 A and it talked about the fact that if you have equal license types, and so you guys know, under CMS guy. Guidelines and type, write this down. Section 70 definition of a physician. It defines six types of physicians. MD, DO, dentist, podiatrist, optometrist, chiropractic, Doctor. We're physicians. I'm taking notes. Yeah, take that down.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

No, no, no, and I don't mean interrupt. Please don't lose your training. So in Maryland, we're not allowed to use that word physician,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

right? And so now you're not in federal compliance.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

I am. My state's not, I'm not taking

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

responsibility. And but we want to go with that. We want to go with, hey, in my state, we're not in federal compliance, right? So there isn't parity. There's not parity in how we're treated. There's not parity in how we're talked to. There's not parity in how we're reimbursed. And for those of you, I'm old enough that I practiced in the 1900s and practicing in the 1900s as a as a white male American, six foot two. I didn't experience a lot of prejudice in my life until I became a licensed chiropractor, and I would have grown men and women who are medical doctors look at me and speak to me with with a disdain and a slur. You're a chiropractor and you could, you could exchange chiropractor for any other prejudicial word, and that's what they meant. And they and it was okay like you, there's there's slurs that are just absolutely not okay to say, but it's okay to look at you like you're lesser than and tell you that, or you can't go to that quack, right? And they mean quack with, with the worst animus possible, right? So that's real. When we went and first presented to the Division of Insurance in Nevada, the Director of the Division of Insurance was a black female, and so I came in there, and I needed to move a room full of all the main decision makers in insurance and the Division of Insurance on why we should be paid equally. And I knew if I started with chiropractic saves money, or chiropractic uses less visits, or there's less surgeries, I knew that they were going to go to the slur right away. So I went to the slur first, and I said, America has a long history of prejudice, Madam Director,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

as you know, oh yeah, got my attention. And

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

while I would never compare the plight of the pain that chiropractors have gone through in our 100 plus years of existence to the plight of a slave, or the fact that it wasn't until the 1900s that women had the right to vote nonetheless, it's not okay. Would you agree? Well, it castrated any ability for them to be prejudiced to me in the room. So so it helped, it helped move the ball, and it still took until June 2025, to get a law passed. But you just have to never, ever quit.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

How incredible is that? I mean, that is, that is really, really, that is such a perfect metaphor for what we go through. And I bet if I don't think you're a real chiropractor, unless you've been looked at as prejudicial as with the prejudice of being that kind of a professional, by by even lay people and other allied health care professionals. So great metaphor. Always remember that, hey, listen, I'm going to switch gears for a minute. I wanted to ask you about that universal tractioning system that you started by putting, you know, duct tape on things and trying to make it work like all guys did. Yeah, that seems like a bro. He didn't, he didn't

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

really use duct tape. Did he so super glue? I'll say a couple brand names it, but it's really important. You know, we're not, we're not up here promoting or selling products or services or anything. But in order to be able to talk about that, I've got to say some names. So so understand that disclaimer. When I graduated chiropractic school and I went through my preceptorship and my primary tool was a spinal adjustment, I found some limitations. One of the limitations that is in my experience is synonyms for the adjustment were in alignment, right, right, right. I'm going to align you instead of adjust you, instead of manipulate you. So what I was discovering, though through in my early, early phases of care, is that the alignment didn't hold right. The patients were coming back, and it helped with so much, like you see miracles with chiropractic, whether it's symptoms or or visceral, somatic, like we've all seen those crazy, amazing miracle chiropractic stories, but the adjustment didn't seem to hold. So I gravitated towards an approach that, even then, was one of the most peer reviewed approaches in chiropractic. I wanted to do evidence based chiropractic that was important to me, so I gravitated. Chiropractic, biophysics. I got to meet my mentor, Don Harrison. Don Harrison had a chiropractic degree at a master's in mechanical engineering, and he had a PhD in mathematics, just, you know, run of the mill, normal guy. And he had an approach that made so much sense, and it combined exercise. Well, I loved exercise because I was a sports guy, combined chiropractic. Love chiropractic. I got the degree, and then it combined an approach that's like orthodonture. We all know If your teeth are crooked and you don't want them to be crooked, that's not a long enough moment to make the alignment stay.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

That was okay. That was good. That was good. You kind of torqued it a little bit, yeah, right.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Maybe, maybe it did. But then did it go back? Did the ligaments and the muscles and the misalignment? Did it subluxate again? Right? So traction, not intersegmental traction, not decompression, not long axis traction, all good things, but two and three point bending traction, designed based on very detailed sets of X rays, X ray mensuration, digital posture analysis and a chiropractic exam to be able to restore the lordosis, correct the kyphosis, restore the lumbar lordosis, fix a lumbar scoliosis was done with traction. And really what it is traction done this way. It's a 15 minute long adjustment. It's just a long adjustment. That's not enough, but if you put braces on for a few months or years, it will change the alignment. And then some people need to wear a retainer. Some of us don't. Some of us the alignment stays. Some of us need to do tune ups. Sound familiar? So when I started practicing, I gravitated towards doing this, this approach in chiropractic, biophysics and the equipment looked terrible. It was embarrassing. Stuff built out of wood and eyelets and pulleys from Home Depot. It just it didn't look like the professionalism that you look like, right? So I grew up in a blue collar construction environment in Las Vegas. My family built me on signs. So I welded and did wires and cut sheet metal. I grew up as a blue collar kid working with my hands, no duct tape, no duct Well, we had duct tape. Yeah, you got to hold it together, to get the weld in, but so I'm like, well, can't we get one machine that does everything? And then in chiropractic school, when orthopedists would name orthopedic tests after themselves, like jurgensens and cozens, I was mad at those guys, because how am I going to remember that? They want me to remember their name? How egotistical, right? Like, call it cervical foraminal compression test, so I know what to do. So we developed universal tractioning systems UTS. And UTS was a device that the intent for the doctors and the patients was to give you one piece of equipment that looked professional and gym like that. A patient will walk in and go, Oh, this looks like the gym. I'm comfortable here. Not this is an S and M torture chamber, right, right? And it would traction every vector of the human spine that it would move and go. Staff only needs to learn one piece of equipment. So that was the why behind developing this piece of equipment.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Sounds good. UTS, not to be confused with UTI urinary tract. That's every I know you're all thinking

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

that stop. No one deed Harrison always teases me real. He always tease me. And he's like, Hey, do you have your UTI? And he always calls it the UTI. So,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

so you're saying, I'm like, deed,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

he didn't say that. That's a compliment. Yeah, we'll go with

Dr. Spencer Baron:

it. So, you know, we all learn this term subluxation, and yet it doesn't translate into the medical world. So how in your, you know, array of knowledge and really sophisticated approach to multiple areas of chiropractic. How do you convince? Do I want to say, convince? How do you collaborate and communicate with a medical doctor? And you know what I would love is, if you have, like, I'm talking about one that's a little bit, you know, staunch and has that little bit of attitude about chiropractic, how would you talk to them? Sure, and

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

this is, you're at three questions. Now,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

he's a smart guy. He's remembering. You got all three, right? Yeah. How would you how would you be able to describe what you do in the nomenclature that they and here's the other one, four, shut up. If you have an idea of or thought of someone or a particular episode you could share that, you know,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

easy. It's an easy one. And I started the story earlier with a neurologist. Okay? So the neurologist said, Tell me about chiropractic and the adjustment. And then I thought, why would I have to tell you that? Because you're an MD, you're a neurologist, for God's sake. You know, it already, right? That's, that's what he said. I thought, and then that clued me in, that that he was humble enough to know his lane and his limitations. So subluxation is a is a Latin term. It's a term used in in the medical world. They use it differently than chiropractic uses subluxation. Chiropractic, the profession, has a lot of trouble agreeing on what that definition definition is, but it's a partial, let's say it's a partial misalignment of a bone. What we want to be able to do is measure it. Right? The causation of the misalignment causes a neuro mechanical, neuromusculoskeletal interference that can cause symptoms or disease in the body. So the old fashioned, I'm going to feel it is pretty subjective, right? Because you might feel something different than you feel, than I feel, but let's measure it. So the way I talk about it is, I say this is our definition of subluxation, and then we have a mensuration process, and we have a software that we use in chiropractic biophysics called posture rate. And again, I'm not plugging companies, it's just what I use. So posture rate developed by posture CO and what you can do is you can there's a range of normal of what a bone alignment would be, and then what if you're outside of that range of normal? What's that called abnormal or abnormal, right? And so if it was a small misalignment, not a gross misalignment, like a 10 millimeter spondylolisthesis, that's that's a luxation, yeah, but a subluxation, it's smaller. And if we know what normal is, and that's agreed upon by the healthcare profession, it is within chiropractic, it is within the peer reviewed literature. It is by neurosurgeons. You're talking their language, and you go, so there's, there's a global subluxation of your cervical spine. It should be 30 degrees, and you're at, you're at 15 degrees. We're going to do X intervention, and that could be surgically for those guys, or chiropractically, with the work and the tools we have to restore that normal alignment. That's how it communicates

Dr. Spencer Baron:

super so we are both immersed in the sports world, and you better be clear on the fact that those medical doctors and orthopedic surgeons are watching what we do, and the head athletic trainers, which are the triage guys, and they're in charge of multi Mega Millions of dollars of equipment, which are the human beings that are contracted to play for these teams. So have you had any experiences with your medical doctors that you they all seem to love you?

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Yeah. So yes, and this is, this is so much of what you're saying that happens in your office, happens in our training room, and happens in many training rooms. For those who are fortunate enough to work in collaborative training rooms, some are not where the communication is not there, but you took a unique process in educating on that word, subluxation. Now that your fellow teammates know what that is. You can use that freely, whereas in a lot of settings that we're in, it's still segmental dysfunction, sure, and other words are being used. But I had Thank you. I had the opportunity last year, my head athletic trainer asked me. He said, How long? How long do you want to do this for? And I'm thinking, why am I going to get fired? And he said, he said, I said, Why are you asking? He said, Because as long as I'm here, you're here, which was kind of a really nice thing, but it gave me the opportunity to say what I needed to say to him, and I hope you guys share this with people and in different facilities that you work at, and one of the key things that you said before is how important communication is and leaving your ego at the door, which is my number one rule. But I told him I do what I do for two reasons. Number one is physical. Number two is mental and physical. Like a lot of guys like to my age, like to play golf or pickleball or something, I choose to work on extremely large people, and in order to do that, I have to get myself in the best shape possible, so physically. That's why I like to do what I do. But the more important one was the mental one, in that a lot of people my age will read books and do puzzles to keep their mental acuity. I choose to work on big players, and what you may see that looks the same on every single person that I work on is not because I have to figure out how to move that joint. Does it even need to be moved? Which way is it moved? What are the contraindications? What surgeries have they had? And all those things happen in an instant. And Dr Barron will tell you, you're seeing 2030, guys in two hours. All those things happen innately. But it was. My ability to communicate that, and that's what I admire about your practice, is you and your colleagues, MDS, PTs, have that ability to communicate. It's it's so important, and not just I want to know, not just the verbal communication, but documentation wise, without pimping anybody's but how do you guys communicate from a documentation standpoint? Because we know for reimbursement, documentation is so important.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

So our structure in our group is that we structured our corporation as a medical Corp. It's a medical professional Corp that employs MDs, nurse practitioners, pas, PTs, PTAs and then chiropractic, biophysics, postgraduate trained doctors. That that's our population. If any of you who are chiropractors in the room started off with preceptorship or in your first or second year, a lot of times the doctors you worked for you were an exam doctor, and that might have not been a badge of honor, right? That might have been like a like a proving face, the MDS, that's what they do. They do EM codes, they do the nine nines. They do examinations. So in our group, they're the exam doctor. We've taken away that work and that duty from the chiropractor. Chiropractor doesn't have to do it, but we collaborated on an exam that the medical people got what they needed, the chiropractic and the PT people got what they needed. So all that data is gathered by the MD, and then the file comes in at the end of the day, and we do a POC plan of care, and we rotate that file, and everybody gives their input on what we think the patient would benefit from. We routinely image in our practice. That's a that's an important part of the type of practice, the approach that we do. And then we use digital posture analysis so that we can get an inside snapshot and an outside snapshot combined with the exams. Then to as the team the chiropractor will sit down with the patient a couple days later and review all the findings and the recommendations from the medical and the PT and the chiropractic providers, and then the patient chooses what they want to do.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Fantastic. So some of the underpinnings of what Dr Yeager was commenting on is probably vitally not, probably is vitally important to not only patient care, but follow through and then becoming an ambassador of what you do. And I have to use the terminology, or the colloquialism that Dr Michael Bagnell, functional neurologist. We've had him on the crack and backs podcast, not twice, but three times, because he's absolutely brilliant. Simple measure, measure, if you can measure that patient's progress after the first adjustment, after the 10th adjustment, or any kind of progress that they can put their hands on and really get a grasp for, that is what is chiropractic success. Otherwise, you know, it's funny, because we always tend to ask our parents, how you feeling today, and they go, Oh, I'm fine. A little better, terrible night. You know, that's very obscure and abstract, and it doesn't really, how do you put ouch in your notes? I mean, how do you put that in your notes? But you can put objective data, and that is the beauty of what you were just mentioning. Measure, measure, measure, measure, measure, measure.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

So here you are. You're doing all these things in with Medicare and political stuff, and you and you and you and you're one person, right? You can't do it all right, like in your practice, it takes your whole team who are here, and I'm glad they're there. They could have got, you could have got the better seats closer to the front, but it you so here we are in a room full of people. Here we are on a podcast, and by the way, Terry, thank you for allowing me to warm your seat. What can we the chiropractic profession? What can each of us do to help you? Help us?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Ooh, I like that question loaded. I like it, yeah, what can you do so time or money, time or money. So time get involved. Do some of the things that we've talked about today. Get on your state association. Get on your state regulatory board. There's, there's a World Federation of chiropractic and Jerry club used to say that if you're, if you don't have a seat at the table, then you're, what's for dinner, right? Oh, it's good, right? Oh, yeah. So, so you got to be there. And so many times there, there's, there's chiropractic media out there, and they'll talk about all the bad things that are going on in the rooms, but they're not in the room. And sometimes just getting in there and having a voice, sometimes you get in the room and there aren't good. Things going on. So you better get in there, because you have a duty to dissent, to do your best, honorable work. And you go back to the founding of this country, the beauty of what this country is. There's no country like it is to get into a room and dissent, right? Do it collegiately, do it respectfully, but voice your opinion. One person might sit in a room of 100 and you might move the room, and if you didn't dare to speak up, and instead you kept quiet, then you don't get a change. So show up, give time if you don't want to give time, give money. Now here's the conundrum, because we're not paid enough, right? Like chiropractors, a majority of chiropractors claim poverty. So if, if chiropractic is like the Krebs cycle, and we're trying to find the intermediary to drop in there to change the needle, Medicare reform is one way, right, if one of us, or some of us, can give your time or your money to support what we need to do to get us paid for the codes that were that were trained in within our scope, then that would give you the ability, if you don't want to sit at the table, to make more money and then get more money, right? But what I found in my professional chiropractic work, not my practice, is 80 and maybe even 90% of you, of us, we all are pretty much the same in what we think and how we do chiropractic. There's a vocal, nauseous, loud minority on the left and the right. Here I am picking on the minority.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

I was seated on the left and I didn't

Dr. Spencer Baron:

know you got a little worried

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

on the left and the right, and they're the loud ones that cause all the problems and the hoopla for us, but most of us are aligned. So if we could all just give $1 give $5 give $100 a week, a day, a month, if you don't have the time to get involved, that's what you and you and you and you can do. So that chiropractic has cultural authority. We don't quite have cultural authority. We're still prejudiced, and we need cultural authority so that we're not want to be MDs, but we're chiropractic that has a distinct place at the healthcare table.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Love it. Hey, I would like to give the audience and the listening and viewing audience something that they can read up on, or like some evidence, you know, I mentioned an earlier program about Dr Heidi havoc, you know, out of New Zealand, and she is a chiropractor that does a ton of research and really, really supports What we do in measurable changes. Do you have any suggestions of, maybe some evidence that you've that maybe you could share with with the audience, whether it's the lay people or not, to really prove and deliver that point of, you know, and maybe even, Dr sock, I know how much you love research. Hi, how you doing? And, you

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

know, I, truth be told, research nutrition, I rely on people like yourself and surround myself with people that know those types of things. So I'll decline this part of the conversation then and listen and absorb and he was just trying to publicly embarrass me that I know my limitations. And Quinn Eastwood said, A man's got to know his limitations. Oh, he had to pull one

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

of our idols, very good. So again, not plugging or promoting anything, I'm going to guide you to a nonprofit website that is my go to website for some of the best research and chiropractic. So it's C, B, P, that's Charlie Bravo, Paul, nonprofit.com so write that down. CBP, nonprofit.com There's approximately 366 papers that are uploaded on that website, performed by chiropractors, PhDs, statisticians, MDS, PTs, it's collaborative work, and it's on chiropractic, not just an approach, AKA a technique, okay? It's not just an approach a technique. It's collaborative work, multi discipline. The authors of these papers and the nonprofit entity, they paid the journals so that you don't have to subscribe to the journal. So you don't have to get a subscription to spine, or European spine, or all these, these other journals that are out there, they're open access. So you can go there, and then you can click on and download the full PDF. That's another organization that's doing really, really great work for you. So again, that's another way to give if you don't want to write or you don't want to sit at a political table. So all that research is there. Let me give you a really interesting one that I think will be near and dear to both of your hearts. Hi, Heidi. Great research. You mentioned Heidi. Everybody loves Heidi. Loves her person and loves. Is the work she's done. She's done some really amazing work about how the how the activity of the brain happens as a result of the spinal adjustment. Ibrahim Mustafa out of out of the Middle East. He's a PT PhD, along with deed Harrison and some of the other authors on that paper have published a very interesting paper on a regional subluxation. It's a lack of cervical lordosis, a hallmark of what chiropractors work on and forward head carriage, right? I don't think anybody in the room would disagree. That's a problem,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

right? Did you notice that when he did that, everybody, like, kind of stood up a little, oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

man, I did it myself. I actually, yeah,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

so lack of cervical ordosis, forward head posture. This randomized trial essentially just talking to us as normal people, because some are physicians and chiropractors in the room, and some are are lay people here listening. It improved sensory motor reaction time. So if you restore the lordosis and reduce the forward head posture towards normal for each degree and millimeter of restoration towards normal alignment of unsubluxating, there is an improvement in the motor sensory function. So what's that? What's that mean? That means the quarterback fires the ball off faster. That means the hockey pair player hits the putt quicker. It means that the front line defenders and the Special Forces get their AR up faster. I don't know of a more clinically relevant finding that chiropractic is done, and then when that correction was made through these interventions, they were followed up with no intervention for two years, and the benefits stayed. In other words, when I talked earlier about, does the adjustment align you, or does it go back? Does the teeth need orthodonture? Does it go back through this intervention and this approach in chiropractic, you get a permanent correction and change of sensory, motor reaction time, like, that's, that's, that's chiropractic, right from its roots.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

So talking about that, everybody here, if you're a chiropractor, you have a why story. I we talk about this all the time, like when certain things happen. There's a why story for me, why I do what I do and who I do it with. There's a why, a deep rooted why. What's your why and or is that why a patient and being HIPAA compliant? Was there a story that said, You know what? This is, why I do what I do.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

I my why. Story is Stephanie Youngblood, I don't know if you guys remember, no Stephanie,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

wait, do we just say hip? We It's

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

okay. She's a chiropractor. Okay, yeah. Now she's my chiropractic mentor, and my mommy made me go see Stephanie when I was just barely a man. I was 18 years old, so I was at UNLV, and I was a jousting sword fighter in the Excalibur show.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

You're the guy. Wait, wait, what night were you like? Green the Green Knight? Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Green Knight. He was the good night, good night,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

and I'm it's Thanksgiving night and I'm on my way to work to go do two shows after Thanksgiving dinner, and a Gran Torino pulls across the lane and pulls into my number one lane when I'm doing 45 miles an hour. Boom, crash into the front axle. Horrible, horrible crash. Totaled my truck, totaled his car. I like, you get this adrenaline pump when you're in a car crash. So, like, I jumped out of the car. I was mad, and I came up to him, like, what the and before I could say another word, he was a sweet little old man, and he was hurt, and he was slumped over the wheel. Now, I'm at UNLV. I'm pre law. I'm not going into health care pre law. Maybe that's why I like memory

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

law, pre med

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

and and I instantly went into, like this empathy, caring mode, and I, are you okay? And I took care of him and the Mad washed away. Police Officer, watched the whole thing, towed both our cars away, got him in an ambulance, put me in his police car, took me the Excalibur, and then I fought two shows. I woke up the next morning, I couldn't move. I couldn't move right so you don't know what to do. Like I'm in I'm in pain. I've never understood or felt before. I'm 18 years old. At 18, you're invincible. I can't move. What do you do? What do you do when you when you have that pain meds? I called my Mommy. Oh, so I didn't know what to do. I called my mommy, and she's like, I know the answer. You're gonna see my chiropractor. And I cried harder. I'm like, I'm not doing it. And she's like, yes, you will that authoritative, mom. Okay, so I was in so much. Pain my buddies from the show, they had to pick me up and carry me, and each step was excruciating as they carried me. And they put me in the back of my car, and they drove me to Stephanie's office. And Stephanie looked at me, and she took an x ray of me, and she said, I can help I can help you. And she said, See this X ray, your neck's supposed to be like this, and it's like this. We've all said it as chiropractors, we've all heard it. Some patients have heard that. She said, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to make you feel better, and then I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to fix you. I'm going to align you. Mike, great. Sign me up. I saw a PT and an MD at the same time. The MD gave me drugs. I didn't take them. The PT was offering me to do exercise that I already knew how to do in the gym. Wasn't really, I think, relevant, advanced enough the chiropractic had something to it, and so she did what so many chiropractors used to do, you should be a chiropractor. Yeah, you should be a chiropractor. Yeah, you should be a chiropractor? No, I'm going to be in law. You should be a chiropractor. No, quit saying it. We won't. By the time my care plan was done, I'm like, I think I want to be a chiropractor. That's awesome. But she goes to do a discharge exam, a final exam on me, so she can measure me, right? And I said, is part of the measurement going to be an x ray? She goes, Why would it be an x ray? I go, you. I came in, I was carried in, and you took an x ray, and I'm supposed to be like this, and I'm like this, and you've been doing this, and then you did this, and so now I should look like this. And she goes, you need an X ray. You feel better, don't you? I went, yeah, don't you want to measure it? So she took the X ray. Guess what? Guess what? Like this, no Necker. This looked the same. Oh, that's why I changed the chiropractic. I wanted to know why that's my Well,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

oh, that was a good why like that?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I love that. It's always a great story. They that's why we do multiple visits, is so we brainwash you into thinking you're going to become a chiropractor too, right? So I want to backtrack just a moment, because I think it's really important that some of us have something to take home, or that we are able to use a question often comes up is, how can we get in with a team? Or how do you get in with an organization? Or my thought is, you find your figurehead, you take some of the research that Dr J just mentioned, or Heidi havoc, stuff I remember doing this many years ago. Heidi Havoc published in neurophysiology, not a chiropractic journal about what you had just mentioned, about cervical manipulation and sensorimotor effect, or how I would describe it as proprioception. Proprioception, which is the absolute most vital aspect of an athlete's, you know, pitching arm, throwing arm, whether it's, you know, tennis or target practice, whatever it might be. How can you possibly improve that? Well, I would, I would print that article out. I would highlight just a few lines that were very impactful in that. In a research paper, I would put a cover sheet with my logo, my office logo, and a very brief synopsis. I'm talking about two or three lines, hey, you know, my name is Dr Spencer Barron. I, you know, my specialty is sports injuries. I'm in the neighborhood. I treated a couple of your athletes, or what have you, and here's some proof, or here's some evidence based information that you might like to read now, guess what? You better. Hi. You better. You know, make that synopsis of that research paper, maybe two or three lines, because that athletic trainer ain't gonna read your research paper. He's the you know, they don't have time, they have athletes lining up to treat or they have other administrative stuff to do as well, to take care of that team. But if you by the way, I got this approach from a pharmaceutical rep. Sorry, but it worked for them, so it's going to work for us, right? So if we can disseminate that kind of research, and he gave you a storehouse of where that research can be accessed, then take just one of those research papers that you really are emotionally attached to and send it not once, take another one and send it next month and do the same thing, because that's maybe the only way you get your foot in the door or create some sort of rapport. Maybe you have a different approach.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

No, that's exactly what we do like. And who do you market to? How do you how do you build a healthcare business? This? Well, the truth is, is that every human has a spine, right? And so, you know, we wrote a paper on TMJ reduction through reduction of lateral head translation, and then we co authored it with a dentist. Now, the reason we, I, I'm a fledgling researcher. I have 11 papers in the peer reviewed literature, whereas, like the circles I walk in, my friends all have 10 and 20 and 50 and 200 and so I'm the I'm the rookie in that room, but I'm publishing right, and it's important to me so to be able to go into a dentist and say, Do you have any stubborn TMJ cases that haven't responded to your care? Could we collaborate with you, and then we'll send the case back to you once we've done the treatment. So you can look that paper up if, if you're interested. It's called resolution of tempo, mandibular joint pain, secondary to chiropractic, biophysics approach. And we took a, it's a single case study, and we took a young lady that had had TMJ pain for 25 years. She'd had general chiropractic and then all the different dental approaches, and basically her head was shifted really far over to the right side, and as soon as we did the therapy, that permanently brought her head alignment back to center, and then we assessed it for stability with long term follow up measurement, yay. The TMJ was gone and never came back, ever.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Well, I think you brought up another point that we, in our practice, every single new patient that comes into our office, we send a start of care letter that I learned from the physical therapist because he was doing and I'm like, why aren't we doing this? A letter to them, just a general letter, as you may or may not know, so and so is presented to our office with the following codes, and we're going to be treating for this time. Using this if you want a more detailed report, please feel free to reach out. No one reaches out, but that communication between the other providers, like you do with the dentist or with you do with your team, is what helps us as a profession communicate in whatever language it is, so that we can all inter collaborate because they can't do what we can do.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

It's our Rosetta Stone, and that's it, just exactly what you guys are doing. That's how we collaborate and develop inner, inner discipline, respect and referrals and and being able to help more people. Awesome, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

so Dr, J, if you had, if you had the mic, well, actually, you do have the mic. Okay, what would be one, maybe challenge or truth bomb, that you could share that would absolutely or could change health care

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

for us, health care for chiropractors. So my my truth bond bomb or or my wish and my vision and I put work and time into it. I mentioned earlier this that chiropractors circle the wagons and shoot in. So is it possible that we could all work together for chiropractic? Is it possible that your technique and my technique and your approach and my approach, could we all honor those as approaches like you don't you don't see the kidney specialist yelling at the neurosurgeon for not doing the neurosurgery or the kidney Right. Like we all have a different wheelhouse, okay, could we work together and and so far, the answer has been no, but the good news is, today, we're talking about it now. We can change it right now. So we have two voices in the United States. So we have two associations, and they're sometimes at odds, and legislators and the media and the public and other healthcare providers are waiting for us to get consistent, waiting for us to get a common voice. So my plea, my work, my wish, could we come together for the for the betterment of chiropractic? We're aging out. The average age of a chiropractor right now is 55 it's a problem. Enrollment is going down. I'm in US schools.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

I'm so I'm messing up that curve.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Sorry, me too. It's a problem, right? So we we need to have a profession that when you Google it, or you chat GPT it, that it's the profession that it says to go into. We know it is. We just need to make sure that everybody else out there knows it is. One of the pieces to make us attractive, would be that we get paid, right? It's okay. You're not a nonprofit. I don't know if anybody out any of you out there that are chiropractic doctors or nonprofits, I'm not, I'm not a nonprofit. It's okay, right? We're not a nonprofit. So it's okay to do good work and to help people and make a fair. Wage. But you know, wouldn't it be fine if, if you looked up chiropractic, median income was$250,000 wouldn't that be okay? It's 70 it's a problem. Yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

very good. Yeah. So it would be nice, because our legislators, the general public, the media, they love that we have two divisions. We have separate belief systems, and they use that to split us apart. Because if they want to discredit us, they'll go to the far end. If they want to discredit us in another way, they'll go to the other end. And really, unfortunately, I mean no pressure, but, man, I would love for you to get that, you know, start that

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

conversation. Great. Let's do it at that pinnacle. Let's do it. Challenge accepted right

Dr. Spencer Baron:

on. Awesome. So we are nearing the end of the podcast, but we always have the most what does that mean? This is

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

my favorite part. Oh, okay. But sometimes, like, I watch their podcast all the time, and sometimes, if I'm in a rush, I'll, like, fast forward to this part. This

Dr. Spencer Baron:

part is the rapid fire question, okay, and if you're ready, dr, J, we got five of them. There's more, maybe six, but seven, they're rapid fire for a reason. You answer quick, and I know you're good on your feet, but here's the problem, we always end up getting caught up in some of the conversation, sure, and it's always for the better. So question number one, are you ready? Ready? All right, Elvis, or Cirque du Soleil Elvis, although my God, you didn't even get my words out, he's the Vegas guy I had to ask question number two,

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Superman or Batman? Superman?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Wow. Jeez, what chiropractic myth you've ever had to debunk? Debunk

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

who? Okay, you caught me on this one myth you had to debunk that adjustments make all your ligaments loose. Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

that's a good one. I didn't even think of that. We just

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

talked about that one. All right, what's harder running a clinic or running for office?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

Running for office,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

oh yeah, oh yeah. How come

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

running for office? They take everything off right down to the underwear. You are under a microscope, and you better be ready.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

No kidding. Okay, he said that with like,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

confidence, yeah, he doesn't mind being naked, okay? And so moving.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

And also, that's probably why you and I run clinics and don't run, yeah, we don't

Dr. Spencer Baron:

want, okay, naked. All right. Anyway, if you could take one book to Washington, what would that book be? What would keep you fired up?

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

A book that I love and I talk about all the time is Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, and there's a chapter on Korean Airlines, and it talks about why Korean airlines kept crashing their planes and killing people. And what it boiled down to was a cultural concept that's been around for millennia called mitigated speech. Mitigated speech is prevalent in the UK. It's prevalent in Asian cultures, and it's beat around the bush talk. It's, I don't have a bottle of water, but you do, and I go, Oh man, I'm why thirsty. Instead of going Spencer, can I have a sip of your water? It's not the indirect so I would, I would take that to DC, and I would encourage people I talked to, to be honest, to shoot it straight, but to do so with dignity and respect.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Love it so so much for rapid fire, right?

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Yeah, but I provoked that one. That's okay. So this one came from the audience that someone just slipped me. They wanted to know bar soap or body wash, bar soap. All right, I just got it. That was

Dr. Spencer Baron:

all right. I want to wrap this up. Give me one name of a chiropractor you would love. This is truly the last one, one name of a chiropractor that you would love to debate.

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

I'm gonna change your question.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Oh, is that fair? I gotta call the rule book Irie is

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

not here. There's one name that was horribly cruel, the chiropractic that I want to debate Joe Rogan. Nice. Joe Rogan. He said, Why chiropractors are BS. And he did an hour and a half, two and a half hour podcast with Psy babe, and it was a shred piece. And I would love for I'd love Joe if you'd give me an opportunity to come on and have a respectful dialog.

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

Good for you. I love that. Good for you.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

How great, right? What a great, great question. Great ending. You done with your questions. I just, I'm a voice of the people. In fact, don't even I'm afraid of avoiding anything else you're going to say. Anyway, this is the end. To the show. I want to absolutely thank Dr Jason Yeager, you know, he may very well be the future of what we represent to the general public and all the powers that be in chiropractic, this man right here, you know, we hope that maybe by September, that he can be a leader in chiropractic and this whole this is such a perfect time to be a chiropractor. Why? Because of the Make America healthy again movement right on, right on. I wish for this man to take a leadership role because of his knowledge base his understanding of chiropractic and both in all ends of the spectrum to bring us together as a power of one, amen, one, not one, not two. One, right on. Man,

Dr. Jason Jaeger:

thank you so much. Thanks

Dr. Alan Sokolov:

for having me. Appreciate Great. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Kraken backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast. Catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.