The Crackin' Backs Podcast

The Mindset Behind Greatness: Why Elite Performers Are Still Evolving- Dr. Amy Athey

• Dr. Terry Weyman and Dr. Spencer Baron

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What if greatness isn’t something you’re born with… but something you grow into?

On today’s episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we sit down with one of the nation’s leading minds in performance psychology: Dr. Amy Athey, Chief Wellbeing Officer at the University of Arizona, former NCAA athlete, and trusted mental performance advisor to Olympians, Special Forces operators, professional athletes, and high-pressure CEOs.

Dr. Athey has spent decades inside the mindset of the world’s highest achievers — and her message is both powerful and radically freeing:


Greatness isn’t fixed. Talent isn’t destiny. The truly elite are simply… still evolving.

In this eye-opening conversation, we dive deep into:

 The biggest myth about talent and greatness — and why believing it is dangerous for your potential
 How elite performers fall in love with the process, especially when results stall
 Why reflection is a performance superpower (and what the “action of reflection” actually looks like in real life)
 How Olympians and executives keep going when motivation dies
 The role of connection, purpose, and community in building mental resilience
 Self-compassion vs. inner fire — how to stay driven without destroying yourself
 The internal shift that separates those who crumble from those who evolve after injury, loss, burnout, or failure
 And the personal moment that forced Dr. Athey herself to evolve — reshaping her work and her mission

This episode is a must-listen for athletes, coaches, clinicians, leaders, and anyone chasing high performance without sacrificing wellbeing. If you want to understand what truly drives greatness — and how to build it within yourself — this conversation will change the way you train, think, and live.

Learn more about Dr. Amy HERE

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Welcome to the cracking backs podcast. Today's episode is a powerful reminder that greatness isn't something you were born with, it's something you grow into. Our guest Dr Amy athey has spent decades inside the minds of Olympians, Special Forces operators and elite CEOs, and her message is simple, the best in the world aren't finished products. They're still evolving. Today, we dive into the myths of talent and the real engine behind motivation. Why reflection is a performance superpower, and what separates those who crumble from those who rise. If you want to train high performance, this is the episode. Let's get into it.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Welcome back to show. Dr Amy three this is three times we're so excited to see you again, and thank you for bringing that beautiful smile to our show again.

Dr. Amy Athey:

I'm not even get two words out. I'm gonna be cracking up.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

That's the whole part of our show. You are part of our family, and we're so grateful to have you back. And today's topic is so freaking cool. You know, we live in a world obsessed with talent, and we celebrate the prodigies we talked about, especially with the US Open just recently, and the naturals, the Born winners. You've worked with, Olympians, Special Forces, CEOs, people we assume are wired differently, yet you say they're not born great, they're just still evolving. So let's start there. What does still evolving really mean?

Dr. Amy Athey:

So still evolving came from just kind of that gut level response I had in conversation with a colleague. He asked me, he was like, you've worked with these elite performers who've done just unimaginable feats, right, jumping out of planes, rescuing, you know, Captain Phillips or the Osama bin Laden raid, or making the Olympic podium, or Rose Bowl championships or national championships. So like, What would people be surprised by? And like, gut just right out of my mouth was like, they're like you and me, like, let's not forget, these are human beings. And so we have a lot more in common than one might think. And yes, is there grit involved? Yes, is there natural talents involved? But really, at the end of the day, after that gold medal or an amazing Mission accomplished, people wake up and they're asking themselves, what's next? Like, where am I going? What's the next step? Because none of us are perfect. There's always room to grow. And more importantly, life is so dynamic. There may be the next punch to the gut, or there may be the next thing to look forward to, in celebration, in our in our journey, so still evolving really refers to that process that I have found really across performance domains, the lessons and tools that those elite performers use as they go through their journey or pursue their craft. And there's a lot of commonalities, and I think just because you and I, I mean, I'm not going to hit a podium anytime soon. I'm certainly never going to become a Navy SEAL. There are some of those tools that we can use in our lives, even though we may not be looking for those incredible feats. It may be like, how do I keep my shit together when I'm getting the text because the uniform was left at home, and I've got three meetings and the the hot water heaters on the fritz, and I'm dealing with, like, real life craziness, there are some of those tools that kind of help me step into those moments that matter, regardless of our role. So it's a process. It drives down to some strategies and tools that can help all of us live our lives more fulfilling, more optimized, and sustain that over time.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

So there's always a misconception about those, those prodigies and people that are so super talented and like for an example, I mean, I want you to think of some of the myths and misconceptions that you could share, that the average person believes about these rock star level people. You know, what I've noticed, though, is there one misconception is that is the fault of that elite performer, is that that they think they're elite in other areas where they're not and, and I'll bet you, Dr Terry is going to vouch for this one. You may have a an orthopedic surgeon or a doctor that thinks that maybe is highly specialized in knee surgeries, but. He's giving advice because he has that authority in that area, that he's brilliant in other areas. And so he's giving advice on, you know, investments or or marriage counseling. And I've seen that before I go. Are you kidding me? So? But it that is, they're not stellar in all areas. Have you thought of crossed any paths that that deal with that? Yeah.

Dr. Amy Athey:

I mean, I think when, when you have success, however one chooses to define it, but that would you have that kind of, like positive reinforcement, and you're like you mentioned the surgeon who is absolutely amazing at that one craft it does. First off, I never want to go to a surgeon who doesn't believe that they can execute what they're saying, that they're going to do right? Like, I don't want to walk into a surgeon's office they're like, I don't know this is I'm not feeling it today, not sure if I can bring it No. Like, who wants that? Like, sure, buddy. Like, cut on me. So I'm grateful for of that sense of confidence and self belief. I think, have I seen people who then take that and extrapolate to perhaps other areas that really aren't in their wheelhouse? Yeah? Yeah. I mean, there's something called the Dunning Kruger effect, right? Like, when you have a little bit of knowledge, it's kind of like, you don't know what you don't know, but, like, on steroids, right? And yet you think because, like, you said, a field adjacent or, yeah, something you maybe have had personal experience, and, like, all of a sudden you're this renowned expert, and that kind of sense of self confidence bleeds over into a lane that maybe really isn't yours. I think the other myths besides, well, first off with, I'll just say the first myth around confidence is thinking like you got to be, you know, you got to be confident. And these elite performers have that all the time, like when I step into the batter's box, I'm going to crush it. Well, the reality is that level of confidence, it's incredibly temperamental. I mean, a batter can be in the batter's box and see the first pitch and like, I'm gonna I'm gonna crush it. Well, we know it's a game of failure, so odds are, whole host of things could happen and they swing and miss. Well, all of a sudden, their confidence in their swing, or the ability to make contact or execute in that moment, the matter can kind of shift. So what people don't realize is even the world's best have significant moments where that confidence is like waning in and out. And so I talk a lot about courage over confidence, like the belief that you have to feel confident, ready, comfortable, to kind of go and do and perform. It's just It doesn't you're going to be sitting back or waiting for a long time sometimes. So how do you tap some courage to go into that space when, when maybe you're not totally feeling it? How can you execute in that way? The other myth, I would say, is around motivation. Need I remind people that even professional athletes have can get fined if they go, don't go work out, right? And you might be like, what? Like a professional athlete? Like they they're motivated, they want to win, they're going to go to the gym. No, they're tired, they feel banged up, or they just got in a fight with a partner, or they're worried about their family or financial strain, like they're human. And so in the relentless pursuit of this craft, which has been a really long time, mind you, if you're a professional athlete, odds are you're in that age range, in your 20s, you've been pursuing this craft at a very high level for more than most of us are in one job, right? Like none of us these days, kind of stick around at one company for 1015, 20 years, depending on the sport that professional athlete has been pursuing that a long time. So that motivation does wax and wane. And so how can we, how can we have a little compassion with that? How can we throw in some recovery to kind of help us, and then, how can we, like, refuel when we need to? So I would say that confidence that you were talking about, but also, like motivational trends that kind of, like the weather kind of comes in and out. Those are two big myths that I think people have.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Okay, so you started to mention something about having, you know, an athlete or a top performer of any sort they've worked for decades, you know, or or of such a period of time on their craft. You know, they win medals, they get awards. They, you know, reach a pinnacle. But people tend to, especially the media, not forget the media, but the media might portray them as an overnight sensation. Yeah, and you know, it's interesting, because you. Take, you know, we could even move away from athletics. And I recall a story about the band, you know, Santana, the band that you know, black magic woman, that old song, you know, the guy is, is an amazing musician. But I heard there was a long period of time before his next hit, that he was suffering depression, alcohol, drugs, you know, things like that. And had to, you know, people don't realize, you know, the media just puts it out there as a overnight sensation. You know, how do you fall in love with the process of achieving that pinnacle.

Dr. Amy Athey:

I mean, I think if you talk to elite performers, regardless of the domain, there's a lot that goes into it then that, like 10 seconds of your, you know, your stand up show, or your pitch in the boardroom, and there's so many aspects of that process that almost becomes more the focus and the fuel than the actual results. So what do I mean by that? If you talk to for example, you talk to Special Forces, so at least seals, they'll tell you, I'm doing this for the guy to the right and left of me like and what's hard about transitioning out, retiring or even stopping that in that role is not because of they were hoping to get the next mission handed down or the next amazing training opportunity, It is leaving the connections and that village. You see that in sport. You see it in corporate teams. You see it in the community, where people shift out of that role and it becomes the journey that is the collective that becomes so powerful and so meaningful and fulfilling, sometimes more so than you know, the metal around the neck, I think the other piece of like, how do you get through that grind and that process? I think Scotty Scheffler had, I mean, that interview went viral. You know, you ask yourself, why did that go viral? It's because he was so real and talking about, yes, is there an exhilaration that comes from winning a championship? Of course, right? Of course, that high is amazing doesn't last long. I mean, in full disclosure, I one of the greatest highs of my career working in NCAA sport was when I was part of the staff supporting the Oregon football team when we won the Rose Bowl Championship, and I was on that sideline, and when, when the when the game is over, and that you see the guys flood the field, that is an amazing high to see those young men like celebrate coaches too, and knowing all that went into that. It is a high. It's a hell of a high. And I could relate to Scotty shufflers interview when he shared like and then maybe it lasts maybe 10 minutes. And for me as a as in my role as a performing and that staff there was then like a relief. You know why? Because I get to go back home and with my two girls who were like, three and five at that time, and had worked every you know, like the rest of the staff and the guys, we had been there every day since camp in August. So I think getting through the grind, having those connection points, really is, at the end of the day, what, what is the agent of change and growth and maybe hitting some of those goals and the results along the way? But that's, that's the fuel,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

yeah, I was keeping that image of what's important to you the why, they often say, Yeah, you know, What's your why and in any area? And I think that's a great question to ask yourself, when, yeah, when you start to get disenchanted with the process, you know, yeah. And

Dr. Amy Athey:

it can change. That can evolve too, you know. I My early on, why was wanting to leave the space healthier than which I entered? And then when I had two girls, now, it takes on even a deeper meaning, you know, like I want, especially young girls and women, to be able to have their journeys and however they choose to dream and and make that in pursuit of that a healthy one. So, yeah, it evolves over time, but not losing sight of that. I totally agree so, so important.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

You know, actually, before I wanted to ask you about this action of reflection. Conversation that you seem to own up to. But before we do, I think that the conversation about know your why, goes a lot deeper, because I know that Dr Terry and I we might, you know, we get interns, or we speak to new doctors, and maybe I'm sure you do, you know, speak to you know, you know, students or young doctors that are just breaking into the field, and their whole thing is, I just want to help people, you know, I just want to make the world a healthier place. But that's really not your why it's a lot. I think it goes a lot deeper than that. And if you could, you know, I mean really deeper than that, like there's, there's a self gratification. When a patient turns to me and says, Man, I feel better. I've shaved off like a, like a point five seconds of my from my sprint time. You know, giving something, you know, it's really, hate to say it, it's about me. It's my it gives me. It adds another pillar or brick of confidence. But people don't realize they got I just want to help people. How do you how do you get them to go deeper inside to find out their why?

Dr. Amy Athey:

I think, I mean, there are a couple questions. I'll just be curious to know, what is it about that process of helping people that feels so meaningful to you? What is it like if the outcome that maybe that patient or whoever you're helping? What happens if that doesn't happen? Because here's the thing, you can be masterful at your craft and helping. There's a lot of things outside of your control, and whether or not that patient has that outcome that you're hoping and they're hoping to have, the reality is, none of us as healthcare providers have like a foolproof solution. There's a lot and there's a lot of interventions that we're pretty damn confident around and have been pretty reliable and helping lead to those outcomes over time, but none of us can guarantee we're going to do X, Y and Z and we're going to have this outcome, and that patient is going to have this outcome. So what's it going to be like for you if that doesn't happen, and if it and even if that result isn't that, that the end state you're desiring, what else might be impactful about that experience of helping for you and try to see, or like, bring out something else about them and their role in doing it. I mean, people are motivated by a lot of things. Like, yeah, people are motivated in helping people. There could be some underlying, like, deeper purpose. Maybe it's a connection to something bigger than themselves, driven by, like, their belief, and there's a certain faith or spiritual connection people are also motivated by profits, so I'm kind of like referencing four P's, my good friend Dr Rob Fazio has in his work. But people purpose profits. Yeah, it matters to some people. For some people, they get into a helping profession as it's a vehicle for entrepreneurship, and that's that's okay. And then the reality is that, yeah, some people like to be in charge. Some people like that, that fourth p of power. I hope they use that for good, right? Like, sadly, we have examples in history and even our current society where people in power, one can make an argument that that's that's not really, it's more self centered or power, but people can use that influence or that that power and that motivation that can help sustain Their grind. But yeah, I just be curious to understand more of that person's experience, and kind of in more specifics around how that experience is shaped by quote unquote successes and quote unquote letdowns.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Love the 4p thing that that,

Dr. Amy Athey:

yeah, he's awesome, man. I love, I love Rob Fazio.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

That is really, really good. I love giving structure to a conversation that could be very abstract, but thank you for that. It's a good way to check in to see where your head's at, you know, yeah.

Dr. Amy Athey:

And there's a blend, you know, like for all of us. And that also changed. I remember coming out of grad school, taking on student loans. I just want to help people, and then I'm a mom. I got to take put two kids through college. I'm like, Holy shit, money does matter.

Unknown:

Shifts. It

Dr. Spencer Baron:

was great. It was great. All right, back to you know, action of reflection. Mean, what does that? Yeah, what does that mean to you? And why is that important?

Dr. Amy Athey:

I think, across like leadership development and the conversation around high performance, you will commonly hear the power that comes from reflection is so critical and being able to optimize one's performance, what I think sometimes gets lost. I mean, even the names, right? Like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna do an after action on this XYZ performance incident depends on your performance setting. How they describe it. Some places will call it debriefings, right? But when you do an after action. Let's not forget that the key there is action. Otherwise it's just like an after reflection, and we can kind of kick around and have this academic intellectual exercise walking through the facts of the situation, XYZ performance. Maybe lessons learned, what we would have done differently, what we want to continue doing. But let's then, what did we just check the box for some HR exercise? And yeah, we went through and we did our after action, but it's really an after reflection, unless shit changes. So what are you taking away from that? And when you're working in a team or system, also have an appreciation that like you're not going to radically shift and up in things. Traumatic events can, I should say this, traumatic events can really upend systems very quickly. I mean, look at covid, bam. Whole world shit changed on a dime, but that was a global pandemic like that doesn't happen hopefully, hopefully ever again in our lifetime, right? But so what are you going to take away? If you're in a team, or even you're an individual contributor or individual performer, when you do the reflection and you think through what's something I want to keep doing that seemed to help? In this case, what's something I want to do differently that seemed that would kind of optimize my performance further. The question is, then there is your target of action for the next morning? When people ask, like, what's your what's your performance goal for the week you have it? This is the thing I want to keep doing. This is the thing I want to do differently. It's very narrow. It's very actionable. And how can you build your individual or team system around so that it's implemented and that just doesn't get left for, like, some intellectual compliance exercise?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I like the idea of setting the goal. I did, do you? Do you facilitate structure for someone to come up with a plan for the day or the week or the game, or or, or, you know, the process of if they're getting prepared for a, you know, New York Marathon, which is coming up, which you train months in advance? How do you because our audience would be curious to do the goal, goaling process, how would you tell them to start that?

Dr. Amy Athey:

I start with the reflection, actually, so you can do it on a micro level like this. This your series. So you're training for the marathon. You know you had a run, or maybe you had a lift, or maybe you had a recovery day, whatever it is that you've built out in your program that you know, if consistently executed, puts you in really good position and preparation to be ready to run the marathon. So on a micro level, I would ask yourself again that balance critique, I keep it really simple, otherwise, like it's just our lives are so full to, like, throw in worksheets. Like, a lot of like, honestly, like, just time our lives are full. So when you're driving or you're waiting in line for the kid pickup, or you're in your that you're on your wind down routine at night, ask yourself, Okay, so XYZ is what I engaged in to prepare for this marathon. And so what, what did I do with that today that I want to keep doing tomorrow? What did I want to do differently tomorrow? So it may have been something like I had the long run today. And one thing that I use to really get there, you mentioned, why is like, when you hit and it really you had to dig deep. Hey, I noticed, like I started remembering why I set out in this the first place, or maybe I didn't remember it in words, but maybe just kind of all of a sudden, I started hollowing along to that song. And. Song just helped remind me, like, Yeah, I'm I'm doing this. Or maybe it was just like, that helpful reminder, or that, like last hug from your kid when you dropped them all, you tapped something deeper. So what do I want to keep doing with that tomorrow? You know what? Tomorrow my focus, because I've got, I've got say, like, I've got a recovery day, and it's easy to get lost in all the to do's that I need to do, but I really need to. I need to stretch. I need to go through my stretch routine. So, you know what? Tomorrow morning, I'm going to give gratitude for that which was motivating today. Maybe it was the hug, maybe it was the song, maybe it was revisiting that. Why? What's one thing I want to keep doing so today, in that long run, when shit hit the fan, I'm like, Oh, I don't know if I can do this. You know? What I noticed is that that inner coach conversation, and we all have it, and our inner coaches have been trained up from a lot of different sources in our lives, positive and negative. The good news is our coaches can all be trained up. Professional coaches go get trained up. Some professional coaches even get fired. So when you hit when the shit hit the fan. In the long run today, I noticed my my coach was less than ideal, and what I really needed in that moment was challenge. I didn't need to hear criticism. I need to say, No, we're doing this. Shut the hell up. Move. Just one foot more. Move and a challenge. Maybe you needed your inner coach to be more supportive. Maybe you're needed your inner coach to be more instructional, keep form cadence of rhythm, and you're in your your gait, or your your breath, so your goal next day. What I hear is there's a gratitude of what keeps you fueled, a focus in that morning, just a healthy reminder, or maybe when you're doing your stretching. And that you know sometimes to get through your stretch routine, you're going to have to enter coach yourself up, and you're going to have to remind yourself, nope, get the shit done. We're not messing around today. And so then by the end of the next day, and you had your stretch day for the marathon, you can ask yourself the same question, what's one thing I want to keep doing? What's one thing I want to do differently? And that's how I use goals in the process, because it drives an immediate, actionable step when it comes to kind of like results oriented goals, I'm assuming you already know what you want to do for the marathon. I'm assuming you probably have a time in mind that you want to you want to hit right? Um, you know, I'll go back to Oregon football. But there's been many teams who've illustrated this, not once in that that journey did, was there a conversation about, we want to win the game. No shit. Like, of course, we want to win the game, right? What will you do on offense? What will you do with special teams? What we need on defense? And if we take care of those specific things, we have even data that shows like, Hey, if you don't turn the ball over, you have XYZ odds of increasing your odds to win. So I think you know what you want to do in a marathon. And if you're you're consistently executing a well informed program, odds are you're of success are pretty damn high. So how do you stay engaged in that process? And that's how I use the goals along the way. That's awesome.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

That's that is I, Terry, I know you're gonna ask something. I could see you taking a deep breath, but I just want to, in regards to this, I

Dr. Terry Weyman:

just want you. Just wants to talk.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I want to find out how you determine your inner coach. Because for me, it is, I need, you know hardcore, you know heavy metal music, or like a like a commander, someone telling me, yeah, get your shit together. And I remember in high school, my one of my favorite coaches, we were dragging our ass on the floor trying to run for miles for wrestling practice, and he would be right alongside of us chanting, gotta go, can't stop. Gotta go, can't stop. I say that to this day, and I still get goosebumps thinking about it. But that doesn't apply to everybody, because I mean, my, my, my girlfriend, Karen, she needs something more subtle, and if you get in her face that reminds her, gives her bad memories of something she's

Dr. Terry Weyman:

still dating you, yeah, believe it or

Dr. Spencer Baron:

not, because I figured out what her inner coach is like to

Dr. Terry Weyman:

be slapped down a bunch of times, probably what.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Know, difference in that, that, you know. I mean, obviously you know, because when you're talking about it, you're like, you sound like, yeah, a coach, you know, like, you know, like a

Dr. Amy Athey:

football coach, yeah, that just depends. It just depends. I how do I determine? I just started asking people, first start off with, I just, unplugged my computer because, yeah, you're still there. So yeah, I asked people, and I start with a question before I even get to the whole inner coach, self talk, however you want to frame it, dialog, I just asked them, like, what's, what's your ideal coach like? And reflect, perhaps, on those life experiences where you had a coach, maybe like you in youth football, youth youth sport, performing arts, it could be also somebody who who was coaching, but maybe in a different role. It could have been a teacher, a spiritual leader, could have been a family member, even who was kind of coaching in that way. And so I asked them to, like, just share with me, what are the characteristics of your ideal coach. And they start rattling things off, a whole bunch of things. In general, the answers usually fall into a number of different categories. One, they're motivational. Two, they're supportive. Three, they're challenging or for their instruction, the instruction that comes with it, right? So, but here's the other thing, when you think of your ideal coach, it's not just that content that they're coaching, but it also depends on the situation. When you first learn how to hit a fastball and you're hitting off the tee, your ideal coach probably comes in the form of more instruction, maybe more support, maybe a little motivating or challenge to try to get you to consistently rehearse. But we're also understanding of how we acquire skills. So when you're first trying to learn off hit off a tee, we're not expecting like you crush the ball, or when you hit first the live pitch, we're not expecting you to crush the ball. Now, at some point, there's certain level of understanding that comes with the skill acquisition that like, yeah, you you know what you're doing. Like, let's challenge you. And that's where your your coach was coming in. They knew at that point you could run the mile or whatever, whatever you were doing in your training, but your ideal coach knows not just what to say, but understands then the fit of when they're coaching, and sometimes the best coaches, I mean, Coach Jerry azanero I worked with. He was a defensive line coach. I mean, he wouldn't, his mouth wouldn't stop running in practice, but it was amazing. And I would talk to him about it. When you saw him on the sideline of the game, he was like, No, I've done my coach like this is for them to let out, which I just put in. So you have to think about what you are doing, what you need to be the coach to be saying. And then the other thing is, like, sometimes your coach just needs to shut the hell up. Like, you don't need your coach tripping. Like, do you really want your coach tripping on your ear as you're like, writing your essay? Like, No, shut up, dude. Like, let me write the essay. Like, I don't, I don't need the yaft. But so after we have an understanding of what that ideal coach matching it with the performance demand, then I just asked to do an inventory. You've got the rubric. How's your inner coach matching that? And sometimes, odds are you're getting some of it, you know, maybe, how do you grade them? Maybe it's a c, c minus. You know, as we mature, we have some insights. We let go of some of like, the bad habits our inner coaches picked up along the way from like you were describing your girlfriend like somebody on like, my guess is that inner coach got trained up some way. So we kind of evolve it over time. And I just remind people like, coaches get shit candle all the time. You can you can shit. Can your inner coach and get a new one. Most often, though professional coaches just continue to evolve, they continue to grow. They can continue to learn, adapt, make subtle shifts. And so you can do that for your inner coach too. It's, it's not, it's just a skill you gotta, you gotta train up.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Terry, what's your inner coach look like, sound like,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

that's a good one. You know what? What? Amy just said, my air coach changes all the time. It depends on what I need, really, yeah. So it can be, sometimes it can be like you. I can have that army sergeant or me with more Navy SEAL. Sorry, person or. Or it can be somebody that just quiets me a little bit because sometimes they get a little too loud. So I think, yeah, I think it, it evolves constantly, but that took time and age and wisdom to get to the point where I had to have more than one coach.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Yeah, depends on the scenario. I guess, right, totally.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

It's, well, look at look at football. You're using those analogies. You don't have just one coach. You have an offensive line coach, you have a defensive coach, you have a quarterback coach. So I think it all depends on what position you're in and what position and where you are in your life and what you need. And based off of that, I want to ask a question, you know, when we first start in a business, or we first start in the sport, we're highly motivated because it's new, it's exciting, and we're so motivated, but in time we get beat down, and that motivation fades. And you mentioned sky shufflers, great speech, but there's another great speech by Kobe Bryant that he talks about about motivation and where he was in his life, and would he change anything? And all that kind of stuff. So when we're beat down multiple injuries, you know that whole it happens not to me, it happens for me and and we get beat down, it's really hard to keep motivated. So what's some of your tips to keep motivated? Once that motivation, initial motivation fades, to reach that that first 80% is easiest, and sometimes the first 90% is easy. How do you say moving in that last 10%

Dr. Amy Athey:

Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I've worked with so many people who have achieved kind of quote, unquote success, however they define it. You know, they made it to college level, where they made it to get drafted, and they'll talk about like, how motivating it was because they heard you the negative, like you can't make it, or you're too small, or you're not fast enough. And they describe that as motivation. And what I would describe that that fuel, what I would say and why you see it kind of like, when you go 80 to 90% and then it kind of waxes and wanes, is, that's the spark, and that, like, gets things going and gets you moving, and like, I'm going to start this business, right? And the spark is driven so that, you know, I just launched my own firm two years ago, right? It's first time I'm taking on this new challenge. I'm learning a ton, and it's all exciting because it's kind of fresh and new. And I love challenges I always have, and so you do have that spark, and then, and then, like you said, you get punched around, for me to keep it going is that's first and foremost, where I find the power of connection. You know, we talked about the inner coach, which is important. But nothing we nothing helps the antidote, that of the antidote to the stress of being punched in life or in your pursuit of your craft, like the connection of early the relationship connections that you have in your life. Maybe that's your partner, maybe that's your parents, maybe that's your best friend, brother from another mother, like your teammates. That is the first place I would say to go. And while I love this digital space, no, that doesn't come from, you know, sending, sending the digital communication. However, whatever platform that may be, DMS, text, snaps, whatever. No, get out. Go sit down with somebody and be real. And it's amazing to me when, like, I'll just relate my own journey, just in the last couple of years, the same thing, the spark out of the gate, things are moving. Start writing a book, and then you start getting punched. And then that book process, I put it on the shelf for, like, I don't know, six months or so, disillusioned because of shopping and around and some of the feedback and and I had heard this like, I've worked with tons of authors in the past, you know, like coming out of this, this industry, and I had heard the impact, but until you go through it, you're just like shit, like, what am I doing? You know, I can go take an internal job, like, what am I doing? And had it not been for the people around me to help just, you know, pass the baton a little bit for some of that emotional weight, like I Yeah, it does. It wears you down. So the first way I find that kind of refuels me and helps me to re engage is kind of tapping the supports around me. I'll give a shout out to Tom, my partner, and even though his challenge sometimes. Like, I'm like, I know I got it, and it gets a, you know, like, it can, like, rip me the wrong way, maybe in that moment at the end of the day, I'm so grateful, because he wouldn't be challenging me in that way if he couldn't, if he didn't see something that I couldn't from the weight of what I'm in. So reaching out to people, it's not just supportive, but it helps you. It helps you just with another lens to see things that shift your perspective. And sometimes it's that subtle shift that then illuminates a new path of action. I try something new, and then I get, like, more momentum going that way. So it's just huge. That's the first place I would say.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Let me follow up that with a different aspect. You got the the athlete who worked his whole life, and then he retires, and he's like in his 30s. You got the actor that was an A list actor, and now he's hasn't gotten a film for a long time. So now he came and get a job as a C actor. You have the the the musicians used to open up for major stadiums. Now they're playing at a fair, you know. Or you've got the the businessman who's about ready to retire, and his know who he is anymore. We always hear somebody asked me one time who I am, and I guess, well, I'm Dr Terry, why am I chiropractor? Goes, no, no, no, that's what you do. Who are you? And so how do you handle those people that the motivation is gone because their identity went was part of that motivation for so

Dr. Amy Athey:

long? Yeah. I mean, you're getting right at it right like this. The lack of motivation, or the waning of the motivation really is just kind of like a symptom of of the underlying where they narrowed in on this as their identity, as an athlete, as a business person, as an actor, a musician. Now what's interesting is that I could argue, in some of those examples, aren't you still a musician? Even if you're playing down the road at the club? There's something about perhaps just that creative outlet, the artistry. Perhaps it's the connection with your bandmates that is still meaningful. But I do hear what you're saying. If the if the identity gets loaded so much solely on what you are doing, we lose sight of, like, all of who you are, and you just nailed it right? Like, you are a son, you are a parent, you are a partner, you are a friend, your business entrepreneur. Like, there's all these different roles and identities that shape you. And so the first thing I do is like, let's just kind of take a step back and like, look at that. And which of those are so fulfilling and meaningful for you. And even though this one lane, take athlete, for example, we have a lot of examples of athletes who started out one sport but end up pivoting at others, you know, like, I'm reminded like, Andre Agassi playing pickleball kind of cracks me up. But like, I mean, he looks like he's having a damn good time, you know, and he's never going to be back on the men's circuit again, you know, playing tennis, but he's having a damn good time. And maybe other business people who, yeah, they retire as CEOs, but the joy that may come through their nonprofit or their charitable leadership in their community, some I've heard like that actually meant more to them than like, yeah, they hit seven figure X. They drove growth. They had an outlet, an exit, or took a company, IPO, but like actually coming back and seeing the impacts that were made through a charitable role of leadership was really meaningful. So I do think there's there has to be like reflection and like kind of conversation and awareness building around all of who we are, not just, you know, I'm a mom, I'm not just a psychologist. I'm not, you know, I remember that transition when I was done playing myself and someone challenged me. I was like, Yeah, I was an athlete. Like, no, you're still an athlete, right? Like my mindset is that of an athlete. I'll get pissed off when I can't play hoops anymore, you know, you know, or if I feel at my back, which I still do all these years later, but yeah, I'll forever be an athlete. It's just my outlet for that looks a lot different than playing

Dr. Terry Weyman:

ball. I got one last follow up, and then I'll let Spencer go. And that is what happens when people get lost, when, like your actors that that are your character, actors that play so many different roles and and they're into the point where they almost forget who they were, because you know when, and they die. So deep into the roles, even they take that character home and they become that person, and then, you know, eight months later, they're another role where they take that person home, or you've got, you know, your healthcare people are people that wear several different hats, and they get lost for who they originally were. How do you find what's strategy for people that feel lost?

Dr. Amy Athey:

I mean, I think the first thing I would say that you're never going to be who you were, even those people who feel like really grounded and consistent, and I know who I am, you're not the same person as you were last year. You're not the same person you were 10 years ago, right? So when you feel lost, it's an opportunity to kind of orient back to like the present. Of, let's just kind of come back to like, fundamentally, like, what, what? What do you value? Like, what's meaningful for you. And so sometimes I'll just walk through a conversation about like, Okay, what, what, what values really do you gravitate to? And so ground them there. Sometimes when people are lost, though, like all of the choices of who they want, may want to be or could be, it's kind of like it reminds me of like talking to my kid, who's she's a senior in high school, and they're asking her, what does she want to do when she grows up, and what major you want to go in and and, yeah, like, the answer is yes. I mean, just start figuring out maybe what you don't want to do. Let's just start if you're lost. Like, who do you who do you know, like that you don't want to be like, I don't want to be a superficial caddy, you know, just show up for an image branded gal. I can tell you that right out of gate, right? What's the inverse? I just, I want to be real. I want to be me, just good, bad, ugly. I just want to show up and not have to, like, play a game, right? So sometimes, if you can get into the conversation of one that what value, what do you value? What's important to you are, can you boil that down to top three, top five, and how are your actions aligned with those values? And then also, if ask yourself, like, what do you not want to be anymore. Well, I don't want to be just kind of so caught with the external that I lose sight of reflecting on how I experienced my day, what I'm grateful for, what was meaningful for me and and so I know now, in this moment, I want to be a person who's a little bit more in touch with that, and takes deliberate action to kind of have a better understanding, maybe writing it down, putting in your voice notes, putting it in some chat. GPT, which I just talked to a colleague, had an amazing idea, but yeah, like there's, there's just kind of like that. Self discovery is important.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I think we veered off of a very, very important topic, but went into an extremely important topic. Went from connection with our peers, our team, our comrades, to identity, which is a very, I think it's probably one of the core aspects of mental health, and that is, you know, I you see these, um, I talked to my boys about this. I go, don't let your long hair be your right, become your identity, because one day you might go bald. Don't let that, that vehicle, see that guy's got that Ferrari, that's his identity, because he's insecure. So if it gets a little scratch, his world comes to an end. So careful where you place your identity. That's one. But I want to go back to connection, the connection that you have, that I see so often with, with footballers, with with military, they developed this deep, this deep connection with their comrades, their their peers, their their people, even class in, you know, in high school, you know, I'm going to my, my my reunion this Saturday, because I can't wait to see the people that I, that I grew and suffered with and all that 50 years, well short, almost

Dr. Amy Athey:

what units, what units are we counting?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

David, get out of here, anyway, so, but my The point is, how in the world do you? How would you talk to somebody that doesn't have those, those those connections and those people around them anymore? They they retire, they they get kicked off a team. They are. They whatever it

Dr. Terry Weyman:

might be. Well, he died. Yeah, if you. Lost somebody to death, you know, and that was your who you leaned on, yeah,

Dr. Amy Athey:

yeah. Or just circumstances like, your family ended up having to relocate. So now all of a sudden, you're in a community where, yeah, they aren't. The first thing I will say, you know, Professor Scott Galloway is on the circuit a lot, and talk, he's talking a lot about, more specifically his guidance to young men, but I think, I think for all of us, his recommendations like, get the hell out of your house. Get out. Get out of the house. Go find a rec center in your community. Go find a religious faith center in your community. Go find, I mean, every community needs volunteers for something, right? If you love fishing, maybe there's something with the the pond cleanup, right? Like, just get out of your house. You know, he goes so far as to say, you know, for the for especially young people, like, how much of our social connection was around sporting events, in the bars, you know, in the festivals, music festivals, but the first thing that has to happen is you're gonna have to get up and out and and, and I think, you know, if you look at how we're socialized in our community, like it's all everything structured for us to kind of develop those skills, but as we grow up, those kind of artificial structures become looser and looser, such that we're going to assume you've gained some skills, and you're going to gain some more. So in younger we're going to have play dates for you. We're going to organize it. All you have to do is learn not to bite each other, right? Like then we learn our words. Now we've learned to use our words. Now we're going to go to school, right? We're going to go to school. And there's going to be a little bit more autonomy, because on the playground, you can choose to play basketball, you can choose to kind of hang out, play Four Square little bit more autonomy to like, figure out how to be nice and kind and respectful. And then what happens? Well, before you know it, we're in high school, and God help you, you're driving right. More autonomy, less structure, but we're learning how to relate and connect. For those who choose trades, for those who choose College, like, again, less structure, more autonomy, but the moment, like, we stop growing into that, leaning into that journey and like putting ourselves out there in a little bit way, another way that's not comfortable. You know, my kid last year, her freshman year in college, she was hella homesick, and she learned that, like some of the friends she thought were her friends, woke up the next day they weren't her friends, right? Because, guess what? There's some mean people in the world shock her, right, like but then now her second year, as she was, she was highly anxious going into it, she's like, I don't know if, I don't know if I want to do I was like, I know. I was like, and you have heard from so many people, the second year is a lot easier than the first year. And sure enough, now I'm just trying to refocus and reminding like midterms are happening. Like, let's focus on midterms. But it's because you started becoming a little bit more comfortable with being uncomfortable and getting out and connecting with people. But soon, you know, she'll be out of the structure of a college environment, and she'll be in a city where she may know a couple people, and she meets some new people at work, and then goes home, and the worst thing we can do is just kind of sit back where we're most comfortable. So get up and get out.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

So thank you for that. You know, I'm thinking about what covid did to isolate people, and I'm thinking about what, you know, some of those people that wanted to work from home, they lose all that, that relationship of being in an office with with others. And you know, whether you hate your co worker or love your co worker, it's still building your your character, you know so, and when you're at home, you don't get that anymore.

Dr. Amy Athey:

So you got to have it somewhere, right, like if you're working. And you know, my brother, he worked from home long before covid, right? And we used to talk about that. He used to talk about that like, yeah, in some ways it's the pluses are amazing. You know, he talked about he was much more productive at home than back in the office. The downside is much more isolated, isolated, those organic interactions that really facilitate that trust experience between people, like you're saying with co workers you don't have as many of those opportunities. And so he talked about how within his community, how important was to find other ways to get up and to get out if you don't have it and you're working from home, I hope, I hope you're. Finding it in other ways, in your in your life,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

very, very cool. So here's, here's a thought, you know, and we all have a friend or a patient or someone we know that is talented or beautiful, or, you know, handsome, whatever it is, and you compliment them.

Dr. Amy Athey:

Are you talking about? Dr Terry

Dr. Spencer Baron:

again, he is, oh boy, he's so handsome.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Go ahead. Thank you. I appreciate you. Love you too, buddy. No. Okay, so you're tall and bold

Dr. Spencer Baron:

and you're a liar. So here's here. So this is a perfect example, because he embraced whether he was kidding or not. You know, he embraced my compliment. How many people go, Oh no, you know, I'm healthy today or right? What the hell do you do with those people? Because I had three of them yesterday in the office or,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

or before you answer to Amy. How many women do you go? I love your shoes. Oh, I got them on sale. And we get this dissertation of where they got them, how they got Oh, you really? And I go, yeah, just say thank you, or you look nice. Say, oh, this dress I got, you know, I got it here. If this is an old dress, and I get this whole entourage, I go, like,

Dr. Amy Athey:

just say thank you. Downgrade the downgrade the compliment. Yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

talk to us about that. Yeah,

Dr. Amy Athey:

you know, I mean, I mean, I'll be real with you, like, it's something that I've personally had to work on, really, yeah, yeah, fair enough, yeah. I mean, I think, um, I think just depending on, like, the experiences you've had in life, like in some situations, you know, I just, I would say, like in some situations, I didn't want to come off as, what's a good word, Like, arrogant, I guess, a cocky, yeah, like, or Yeah. So I think for me, I have been so blessed and so many experiences I don't ever want to lose, like, a grounded sense of humility, like, piece of it. And so there was something for me in my journey. Now, I'm getting into my bullshit, but I'm just saying like, like, there, there was something like, in my work was always behind the curtain, right? Like, it was never, like, this whole world of like, being on podcast, like this is new. Like, this is, this is me, like, being uncomfortable, right? Because, I mean, I turn down interviews all the time, and I would I still do to this day, if you ask about specific athletes or specific team because I didn't run that 100 race, I didn't swim, I didn't dive, I didn't run back a ball like I just never I felt too presumptuous to like, or too self centered to like, take on that. So I don't know, I don't know. I'm kind of rambling on, but I think for some people, I think, you know, they haven't always been encouraged, or it's never been like, fully supported, to stand in all that they are and in, like, all that God gave them, all that they've like, brought in that moment. So whether it's the new dress or shoes or, you know, like, damn, like you're, you're rocking it today. Like, I think there's just still we have a ways to go in our in our culture, to like, fully embrace it's okay to say, Yeah, I mean, I talk a lot about, like, celebrating small wins. Like we hear the word no all the time. We're keenly aware. The way our minds are wired is to pick up on the threat. So 70, 75% of our thinking is always going to be negative, because we want to be careful, right? So if you're giving me that compliment, I mean, I'll be I'll be smart, I'll be like, real with you, like, if we were on a staff together. I mean, I've been on the road trip with the coach, and everybody's having a drink, and I think we're holding boundaries. And all of a sudden, and all of a sudden I get smacked on the ass. So the next day, if, if somebody says, Man, you're looking good, I'm like, I don't know if I want to say, All right, thank you. Like, I'd be like, Man, you know. Just not feeling it today, but, you know, but thank you, you know. Like, so it just, it's just, we still have some room, I think, and and assumption of best intention is always, like a beautiful thing, you know, like, if you tell Dr Terry, like, yeah, man, you crushed it today. Like there's something for for Terry to be like, yeah. Like he does have my back, and just assume that you're not trying to, like, you know, give him hell.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Do you think? Do you think that also sometimes we're wired to always wait for the butt, you know, it's like, Yeah, you look good today. And we're like, instead of saying thank you, but or you do this, do you think we're wired to always hear like you just said the negative? It's like, you're throwing that compliment out. It's almost like, Oh, we're breaking up. But it's not you, it's me, you know, it's yeah, we still want to be friends, but we can't. Yeah. So are we kind of, were we raised with that,

Dr. Amy Athey:

yeah, that hesitancy, or, like some people just given their life experiences? Do you have that guardedness. And, I mean, there's been some amazing thought leaders who kind of, like encourage people to kind of step into that space of being uncomfortable. And, you know, like Brene Brown is like rattling off in my head right now about being strong and standing in that. You know, I used when my kids, like, I used to, I used to always tell them, like, like, show my kids names are Maya and Ella. I'd be like, show off the Maya. Like, God gave like, all that is Maya. Like, show off that Maya, right? And so I hope, and I think we all could probably myself included, like, be more deliberate in like, No, you're not being cocky. You're just owning all that is you, and that is amazing.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

So yeah, it's, yeah, it's pretty cool, because it's what you teach your kids, man, that it's important. And I often said to my sons, you know, we'll dissect someone's nasty behavior out and say that's because they're insecure, and if you teach them that at that young an age, so when someone you know puffs up their chest walking by you, I'll tell my kid, I go. He is so insecure. He had to puff up himself because he thinks you're bigger than him or something like that, you know. But if you, if you go deep inside and train them when they're young, it, it, it's something they can take with them, versus if, if. I mean, they'll just be who you are. They'll grow up to be who you are. So they'll parent what you do anyway. It's time for our rapid fire questions. Dr athey, are you ready? Five of them. Let's go. Question number one, your secret morning ritual in one word, read, what was that? Read? Read, okay, that's boring, all right. Question number

Dr. Amy Athey:

two, nerd, what do you want from me?

Dr. Terry Weyman:

So much for compliments. Try again. Come on. We can do this

Dr. Spencer Baron:

question number two, if you wrote your own motto on like a sticky note stuck to your mirror, what would it say? Show up. I like that. Show up. Question number three, one person, one person, living or gone, that you would invite to dinner just to feel their energy. Oh,

Dr. Amy Athey:

probably Gandhi.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

My god, that was in my head. I thought that would be your answer. I swear, God, like she's gonna say that is weird. All right, that's kind of cool. That was cool. Why would you, I don't know, really, yeah, just like this. I just went, I bet she might say Gandhi, and then come on, that was weird. Weird. All right, sorry, that was pretty cool,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

actually, very cool. Question number four, what one word that would be your kind of silent cue, your like kind of internal reset when life gets a little loud?

Dr. Amy Athey:

Love, I went from born to ah, yeah, and

Dr. Spencer Baron:

we're only on question number four. We got one more girly Okay, favorite holiday ritual that also keeps you really centered.

Dr. Amy Athey:

You know, food baking and like movies I think of like the Christmas holiday, and I like cooking cookies with the making cookies with the kids, watching Christmas vacation, having good glass of wine and having having the Christmas lights on. I would just say Christmas vacation, I did great movie. I love that movie. That's my favorite Christmas movie. I can't

Dr. Terry Weyman:

sit there's. Bowl. Well, we had an RV. That was my wife's favorite statement. We got to stop cheerful. I wouldn't be more surprised if my head were sewn to the carpet,

Dr. Amy Athey:

just on vacation quotes,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

yeah, between vacation quotes and Dumb and Dumber quotes, we could just fill all podcast

Dr. Spencer Baron:

good times. You guys are funny. I guess I've never seen that

Dr. Terry Weyman:

movie, but anyway, I know Amy. He's banned. You know he we can't you're back on until you watch. You know, David, that's your mission over the holidays to make sure, yeah, watches that. Yeah, it's

Dr. Amy Athey:

on, like, marathon on TVs or something like one of the channels. It's like, always

Dr. Terry Weyman:

you've got to watch that. It's like, the best. Yeah,

Dr. Amy Athey:

it's the best. It's our staple. It's our family Christmas Eve tradition.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

What's the name of the movie, crucification with Chevy Christmas Yeah, it has many different names. Yes, you should be able to find it.

Dr. Amy Athey:

Everyone says Christmas vacation. Is Christmas vacation as well

Dr. Terry Weyman:

as Christmas vacation. Oh, my God, Spencer, yeah, I rarely put on the TV, but you quote movies all the time, so just

Dr. Amy Athey:

sit there watch movies either. But this one, you got it? Yeah, that's

Dr. Terry Weyman:

a classic, guys. Thank you. Wait, wait before you go in closing. You have a book coming out, and I want, I want to hear a little bit about this book. Give us a plug. Where can the people find it they want here and read more about you.

Dr. Amy Athey:

Awesome. So jumping into that world of uncomfortable. I am very excited to announce that my book, still evolving, is coming out in 2026 probably late summer, early fall, but I'm getting kind of a jumpstart and having conversations with friends about it. It's you can find out more. You can go to athey performance.com. Is our firm's website, but also on socials, Dr Amy athey, Instagram, Twitter. We'll just keep an eye out, because we'll be dropping more and more information on it, and really it's taking the lessons learned from these high performers that I've worked with in sport, military, business, sharing that information back, but doing so through sharing of my own personal and professional journey. So I think it'll be fine, and I'm really excited about the project.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Oh, well, you're our favorite performance coach, our thing. You're just like our favorite, favorite person. We love you to death. And, you know, love you guys. Thank you for always coming on. We might have to have Dr Amy on for number four. We might have to elevate her to the top, you know. So, so when that we

Dr. Amy Athey:

have some time so, like, your buddy can get on. I don't want to, like, you know, jump runs, like, if we don't want to upset the buddy,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

no, but, you know, tell you what. We'll have you back on next year after Dr Spencer watches a movie. And so we have something that we can talk about. Oh,

Dr. Amy Athey:

yeah, we have to debrief. Let's hold let's hold them a little accountable. No, we don't have to get it done. We don't

Dr. Terry Weyman:

have to debrief. We've had, we have to have an action of reflection.

Dr. Amy Athey:

Oh, and if you're not careful, David's gonna splice some clips and we're gonna have an interactive show where we show a clip, because I think, like, can't you show a clip, like, less than 10 seconds or something? You don't get into the whole royalty craziness. Show a clip, and then we would like to hear your reflection. Oh, my God, I'm gonna have the Christmas tree like

Dr. Terry Weyman:

my glass of red and the dead cat and the dead cat hanging from the tree. You have a fabulous day, and thank you for being such a great conversation, great energy and a great smile. We love you to death.

Dr. Amy Athey:

Appreciate you all be well.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.