Could Foot strength be the true key to Longevity? Dr. Courtney Conley

Your feet hit the ground thousands of times a day—yet most people treat them like fashion accessories instead of foundations.

Toe spacers. Barefoot shoes. Miracle insoles. Bunion fixes.

Social media has turned foot health into a trend—but pain, plantar fasciitis, bunions, and heel issues keep rising.

In this episode, we cut through the noise with Dr. Courtney Conley, one of the most trusted voices in foot health and human movement. We break down what’s actually supported by biomechanics and evidence—and what’s just well-marketed hope.

This is a practical, no-nonsense conversation for people who are active, successful, and quietly frustrated that their feet keep holding them back.

In this episode, we cover:

• How to spot foot health red flags that signal marketing—not real biomechanics
• Toe spacers: what they help, what they don’t, and how to use them safely
• Barefoot and minimalist shoes—who they help, who they hurt, and how to transition without injury
• Bunions: what can improve pain and function conservatively—and what usually won’t reverse
• Orthotics: when they’re smart, when they’re a distraction, and how to pair them with real foot strength
• Plantar fasciitis and heel pain: the highest-ROI strategies people overlook
• Heel spurs explained—and whether injections actually make sense
• Why walking is a longevity skill, and the 3 foot metrics that matter most for life

If foot pain has been limiting your workouts, your walking, or your confidence in movement, this episode will change how you think about your feet—and your shoes.

About the Guest

Dr. Courtney Conley is a foot and ankle specialist, educator, and co-founder of Gait Happens, a globally recognized foot health education platform. She specializes in biomechanics, gait analysis, injury prevention, and helping people build stronger, more resilient feet through evidence-based strategies. Dr. Conley is widely known for translating complex foot science into practical tools athletes, clinicians, and everyday people can actually use.

 Learn more about Dr. Courtney Conley and her work:
 https://gaithappens.com

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:00

All right? Well, I'm excited about today, and we're going to talk about feet, which is actually one of my favorite topics, believe it or not, because your feet are the only body part that hits the ground 1000s of times a day, and yet we treat them like fashion accessories, you know. So meanwhile, social media is selling this foot health like it's a supplement, you know, toe spacers, barefoot shoes, Miracle insoles, bunion fixers. Here's the weirdest shit out there, and it's crazy. And today we're gonna cut through all that noise. We're gonna come to our top foot expert and friend who we love dearly, Dr Courtney Conley. And you know what's true, what's hype? What is new for 2026 and how to start the week to build stronger, more resilient feet. Welcome back, Doc.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 0:49

It's so good to see you guys. I was looking forward to this all week. Oh, me too.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:54

Oh my god, I can't Yeah. And ever since Vegas, I'm like, Yeah, you're just the best and, and she's even showing their guns, because, you know, Spence, this woman gives the best hugs. She's just amazing. It's what we do good. So let's just get right off and let's build a foot health 2026 BS detector. What are some of the five red flags that tell you this claim is marketing and not biomechanics or evidence.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:23

Well, I think, you know, one of my missions in life is to when you look at all the products out there from a foot perspective, they're all based on once there's already a problem. So if you go into a grocery store, for example, or a pharmacy, it's what to do with your bunion. What to do? Here's orthotics for your heel pain. Here are, you know, cushions for your foot, all these kind of products to help alleviate symptom. And in my world, I want that whole conversation to switch in that we're doing things in learning about things that are preventative, rather than reactive. So that's kind of what my mission is going to be in 2026 so with that being said, when I think of, you know, products that can help people things like as simple as, like a toe spacer. I mean, I've been wearing those things for probably seven or eight years. I wear them every day. I had bunions, as, I mean, I still do, but they were painful before so and now they're not. So it's just an easy tool that I can wear every day, and it's low cost to people. That's what I you know, there's so much stuff going on out there. It's like, you don't need to spend a lot of money. You just, you know, do a couple small little things. And I think that's like an easy intervention. So like 2026 like toe spacers are easy. It's an easy, that's an easy, easy in,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 3:00

you know, you're a extraordinarily beautiful woman. And one of the biggest things that I see, and I know Spencer sees it too, is fashion versus function, and especially with women's shoes and but you mentioned some just in the intro about mindset changing. How do we change a mindset to start having people realize that a functional shoe can be is is beautiful, and get out of these fashionable crap shoes that kill people's feet.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 3:31

Perfect question, because it's the quiet, it's the conversation I have with my 14 year old. We have this conversation all the time, and I keep reminding her, strong is the new sexy. And I don't think there's anything sexier than when you see you know, someone taking care of their body and taking care of their health, and when you see someone that's taking care of their feet and how they're walking and how they're moving, I mean, that's, I think, the conversation that needs to be had. And I think when you look at where the industry has come, when I first started doing this, there was one or two brands that had functional, you know, minimal footwear. Now there's tons. So they're getting much cuter. They're getting, you know, they're attracting a much wider audience, and hopefully with education, we can be like, you know, you don't have to walk around and wear this stuff and be uncomfortable.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 4:33

Yeah, you know, you speaking of which Ultra the shoot that you suggested that I switched to used to be an ugly shoe because it had a big toe box. It's just because it still has a good wide toe box, but it's much more streamlined and prettier. Well, yes, more handsome, I should say, looking even the pink, even the pink pair that I bought. The other No. Let me ask you about toe spacer, since we started on that subject. But you know, instead of jumping into throwing toe spacers on, what would you recommend? Just like it like orthotics. People put the orthotic in and they wear it all day long, and they are miserable. So what would you say about toe spacers?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 5:16

You know, I have Eddie. I

Unknown: 5:23

What happened to the rest of Eddie poor Eddie,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 5:28

I was talking to my business partner yesterday, yeah, if I ever have the opportunity to meet Eddie Vedder, she's like, are you going to have him sign your foot? And I'm like, Yes, like, right on the first metatarsal, he's going to sign his name right here. The widest part of the foot should be our toes. So if you look down at your foot and you don't see that your toes are the widest part of your foot, you should start asking yourself, Is there a problem here? And if you look at most people's feet, even if the where the metatarsals are is wide where the toes are, they'll taper. And that's a problem, because when we walk and when we run, most injuries occur in the foot, at the forefoot, because that's where the majority of the load happens when we go to push off. So I need my forefoot to be wide. I need my toes to be able to splay. I need strength and I need power. So when it's this isn't a, you know, a trick question here, when the toes look like this. Instead of this, you just make it harder on yourself. You start changing the angle of the joints, the big toe in particular. And so that's what we'll start doing with our patients, is getting them to can they lift all of their toes and spread them, you know, abductor halysis is, you know, the muscle that straightens the big toe. And that muscle is really cool because it's a postural endurance muscle. So there's when you engage that tissue, it's slow twitch fibers, so he should be able to really help you with your posture and how you're feeling the ground. And most people can't either engage that tissue or have the endurance or capacity to actually use the use the foot efficiently. So those are all I mean. I look at the foot like we look at everywhere else. It can be strengthened, it can be trained. And we need to start doing that, because if you look at the shoe industry. It's I was telling talking to somebody about this yesterday. The shoes are getting bigger and cushier and springier and more rocker. And I keep thinking to myself, if I was a shoe company and my audience was like, I'm having a difficult time pushing off, or I have a I can't really walk long distances. If I'm in a shoe company, I'm going, well, I want people to buy my shoes. So what am I going to do? Let me just help you. When you put this shoe on, I'm going to rocker it even more, and I'm going to put more stuff on it. So when you put it on, you're like, Wow, this feels really easy. I like this, and I buy more shoes like that, when, in reality, we should be having the conversation that if you don't use it, you're going to lose it in the more you cheat the system with these, you know, rockered shoes and things that don't challenge our system, we're going to start to see more problems. And that's why, you know, one in three Americans over the age 45 have foot pain. It's, you know, next to low back pain. It is a very, very common, common problem.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 8:56

So if you're going to suggest a toe spacer or an orthotic to somebody, how should they break themselves into wearing it? I mean, you know, like I said, you don't want to, like, slap them on and wear them for eight hours a day. Or is that? What would you suggest?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 9:11

I think, when you talk about any intervention, whether it's a toe spacer or a foot orthosis, the word after that should be therapy. So in that means that you use it as a therapy. So if we're talking about foot orthoses, for example, when someone starts using those, they're load modifiers, and there's research to say that they are, they can be very beneficial, but it's the therapy part that we're missing that you start wearing them and you break them in, you know, you just like with anything else, couple 30 minutes an hour, see how it feels. You know? But if you have the right foot orthosis, you shouldn't have to be like, let me just break this in for a couple days. I do tell my patients, especially with those if it's the right. One you should it should be pretty comfortable, but then the conversation with that is as they're wearing it. You have got to work on strength in mobility so that there's an exit strategy for it. I mean, we wouldn't do that anywhere else in the body. And the same with a toe spacer. I mean, those, for most people who start to wear those people's toes are like this, so they put them on and it's, you know, when I was first started wearing mine on my right foot, my foot was so weak and it was so uncomfortable. It like 10 minutes I was throwing that thing across the room, you know, and I was getting like, palaces and corns in between, especially my fourth and fifth toes, because those toes wouldn't splay real well, and it would just rub. And so I had to take them off, and then I'd wear them again, you know? And now, because I was late to the party here, I do wear mine every day. Some people don't have to do that, but it's not a device that weakens the foot. So that's the difference, right? Between interventions that don't weaken the foot and interventions that can weaken the foot.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:15

And you came from being a ballet dancer. Is that right? Yeah. So you cram that foot in the ballet shoe, so now you're

Dr. Courtney Conley: 11:25

in a psycho shoe, in a running shoe, and all the things I was constantly like, and that's why, like, when I was training for my races, I had neuromas and stress fractures, and my bunions were killing me, and you don't you don't Want to do anything when your foot hurts.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 11:41

You know, even on that, what you guys just mentioned, what about these professional women that are still wearing high heel shoes because they have to look a certain way in front of their executives? What's some strategy? I mean, that's the same thing as all this, right?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 11:58

Call me and I'll write them a letter.

Unknown: 12:01

Yeah. I've written

Dr. Courtney Conley: 12:03

a lot of letters to certain airlines because that industry is, is a perfect example, yeah, because, you know, we actually interviewed one of them, a woman, for the book. She's been with a certain airline for, I think, 30 years. And one of the quotes I love from her, she's like, I wish they would let us take care of our feet like we take care of our passengers. I'm like, it's very good point. Oh, that's a good point. But she, you know, they used to have to wear, if you look at their dress code, it's like, they have to have a certain heel. It has to be a certain look. And you know, these people are walking up and down an airplane through an airport, and so they've modified it, where they can wear a flat shoe in the airport, but they still have to wear, like, some type of heel on the airplane. And I'm like, can we just be done with this, please? So yes, lots of letters to airlines.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 13:00

I had a patient yesterday. She's an executive for a very well known high end hotel industry, and she's in charge of hospitality, and she was so proud of her Prada shoes, and I'm looking at them and go, these are terrible, and she was heartbroken, but they're Prada, yeah. So how do you help with what I mean, I'm not. How do you help with that? You know, what letter do I write?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 13:28

There are going to there's always going to be, I think, some industry, I mean, I would like to think that there isn't, but where there are going to be times where it's a non negotiable, you have to wear this type of shoe. Think about it from an athlete perspective, too. You know, rock climbing, football cleats, ice skates. You know, there are times where the tool for the job is going to change the function of the foot. Fine. You have to pay attention to what is happening before and what is happening after. So if she's not on her shift. Then I'm very adamant on wide toe box shoes, wear a toe spacer. Use a ball on your foot. Get some action into the feet. Because if you go from high heel to, you know, tapered toe box tennis shoe to all these, restrict this restrictive footwear all the time, that's when you're going to run into problems.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:23

Yeah, so let me, let me share an important point for the audience, and that is, yes, when you switch your shoe to a better shoe, a DR Conley approved footwear, it comes with, you know, some soreness or aches and pains at first, and that's something that so I will tell you to be candid with you now that I got you on the screen. Here is when I switched from New Balance. Oh, was I supposed to say when I switched

Dr. Terry Weyman: 14:54

from NB, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:57

to the ultras. I did a form. Mile run, and I had strained my calf, but I knew that it was because the dynamic of the shoe was different, and that was actually a plus, because I knew that Ultras were a good shoe, so I just nursed it back, and now I have zero problem with it. And I wanted to ask you, though, because you had mentioned, and I don't know if it was on our show, but you had mentioned a way to strengthen the calf by doing a seated, I think, on a power rack or something like that. Your body weight for with one, you know, do a calf rate. Could you please elaborate? Because I was trying to tell that to a patient two days ago, and I go, You know what? Let me find where she said that. But now I got you on. So yeah, tell us.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 15:43

Well, there's some some good points to bring up there too. That concept of transition, yeah, right, is important. And you know when I'm going to sidebar here for a little bit, when covid happened, there was a lot of research articles popping up, and people like articles showing, hey, don't walk barefoot at home, because everybody was home now, nobody was wearing shoes, and people's feet and calves were hurting, and everybody blamed it for being barefoot. And I'm like, No, it's that their feet are weak and their lower leg is weak. It's not that they went barefoot. It's that they went from wearing shoes all the time with a weak lower extremity, and then they went barefoot all the time. So again, thinking about the foot like we think about the rest of the body, you wouldn't squat 100 pounds one week and then 300 pounds the next week. It's progression, so that transition is important. So I'm glad you stuck it out, Spencer, rather than saying, you know, it's the shoes fault, because it wasn't the shoes fault, it's your tissues just needed to adapt. And that adaptation occurs with time and also strength. So how we load? So for I think everybody walking on this planet, should be doing some type of calf raise. I do. I think that the plantar flexors and the power that we get from push off, you have got to have a strong foot, and you have to have a strong ankle. So we'll assess our patients with single leg calf raises. A lot of the times most people cannot. A lot of my patients cannot do that. I get very picky about what that calf raise looks like. So I'll start them with a double leg calf raise. I want to see the height of both of their heels, seated

Dr. Spencer Baron: 17:36

or standing, standing. Okay?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 17:41

So we'll start standing, and then I want to see the height of their heel is one heel lower right? Can they not get to that plantar flexion that I'm looking for? So that's one thing I'll look for. The other thing I'll look for is an inversion of the calcaneus or at the heel. Okay, the big toe should be planted, and then that rear foot should invert. That's your power position. So a lot of patients who can't invert their heel, I know I got some work to do, soleus, post, TIB, you know, working on improving that function. I look for the entire ball of the foot to be on the floor. So some people, you'll see them, their little pinky toes are up in the air, right? Or it looks like they're going to sprain their ankle when they do a calf raise, because they don't have good anchoring of the first ray. Yeah, those are all little things you should be saying. Something does not look right here, toe gripping. People who can't do a calf raise without the toes gripping. That's a weak foot. So if they pass all of those tests, then we can go into single leg. How many single leg calf raises can they do? Is it controlled? Do they still meet all of those requirements? And then we can start to look at loads. So there was a study that Peter maliaris Did looking at Achilles tendinopathy, and he looked at healthy runners. And what they found was a healthy runner could do six reps standing single leg, holding half their body weight. Okay, seated, single leg, one and a half times your body weight. Now, have you ever gotten, if you ever gotten on a seated calf raise machine, which I still always wonder why there's not a line for that machine in the gym. Nobody's ever on it, and they should be right. If you put, you know, 50 pounds on that thing and try to do a single seated, single leg I think most people would struggle. That, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:02

I pride myself on training calves. I have good calves, but I tried the one and a half times your body weight on a seated calf, right? One? That's heavy as shit.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 20:15

I don't think I could do it. And I work all the time. That's I was shocked

Unknown: 20:19

at how, yeah, what anyway

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:22

for six reps? Yeah, well,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 20:25

you know, does everybody have to reach those numbers? No, you know. I mean, we look at, you know, even 50% of your body weight. But the point being with that is that's the amount of load and capacity that can go through these tissues. So we need to be thinking like we need to, we can't just be doing banded toe work. I mean, our foot needs to have load just like everywhere else.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 20:50

Hey, court, I do you ever look at like genetics, like, like Spencer has gnarly calves and he's built like a fire plug. I have chicken legs, you know, I have big claws and hams, but below the knee I have spindles and so, you know, I have long muscles. You know, I'm an endurance guy. I There's no way I could. Well, maybe I could. But do you ever look at like genetics like that, of how the calf is? I mean, I have strong calves, but they're not big. I mean,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 21:22

I mean, sure. I mean, there's going to be an individual component, right for everybody, but I do think that we could probably get you up there.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 21:31

I'm going to try it, because I love challenges. But yeah,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 21:35

look at too is, what does the calf look like? You often see a lot of people that have these, like, big balls of a medial gastroc, you know, and then nothing. It's like, all you see is medial gastroc. You want to dissect that. Why is that occurring? You know, is there soleus week? Are they trying to, you know, push through the big toe and they start gripping the medial gastroc. When it's restricted the way that inserts into the Achilles tendon, that tissue will restrict ankle dorsiflexion more. So when you see that, you really got to tease that out and see why, why that's occurring. You know, you often see that with someone who, when they walk where their four feet are abducted, and they're just like, really pushing off medially,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 22:29

I had a buddy of mine who he, he was my training partner, and he, somebody came up to him and just arbitrary, said, Hey, I see the cattle rustlers were at your home when you were younger. He goes, what? He goes, Yeah, they stole your calves. And they go, what the and you get. But he had strong calves. He they were pencil thin, but the tensile strength and his calves were remarkable. But, you know, he trained them hard. But yeah, anyway, yeah, so it's not just the look, it's the functionality

Dr. Terry Weyman: 23:09

that's pretty interesting. Yeah, I wear like, certain sandals or clogs, and I'd like ridiculous, because they have tiny ankles and no calves. So I like ridiculous. I won them so bad. And I see people like Spencer, I would kill for those calves. But yeah, I got nothing my quadrant size of his calves. So it's like but they're functionally strong, so

Dr. Spencer Baron: 23:32

I used to not train them, but now, based on what Courtney said, what I heard her talk about a long time, I trained them hard now, and I think that's what allowed me to survive through that transition of shoes or footwear. Yeah, because they healed fat, it healed fast.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 23:49

I had an interesting conversation with my dad. Actually, this week, he's going to be 80 this year. He's big golfer, you know, he's he's golfs three times a week, and, you know, but he noticed that when he was walking, he's like, I feel like, you know, I just can't push off anymore. You know, that he was having difficulty with cadence. And I think that's an easy sign for people to look out for is how fast you're walking, because a slower walking cadence you we need to pay attention to because it is a predictor of neurogenerative disease, slow walking cadence, and it also is telling you, hey, you're losing power here. And as we age, we lose power faster than we lose strength. And that's a problem like, I think when we talk to our patients about, you know, we're getting everybody's getting on board with strength training. You got to get stronger, but we need to be having the conversation of power training, because power training isn't just for athletes. It's walking upstairs. It's being able to, if I'm crossing a street and I have to move a little quick. Quicker. It's being able to walk with a faster clip. And all those things are very important as we age in the only way we get that power is if we train this complex, is if you train the foot and ankle complex, and that includes, you know, I'm not going to have my dad be like, you know, single leg hopping all over the place, but he's gonna start doing some like, double leg hops and some skipping and, you know, heel to toe walks, all of those things start to, you know, facilitate that spring. And I think that's important

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:35

due to the, I mean, the foot has such a rich supply of nerves, and people take it for granted that all that feedback has to travel up into the brain. You got to make an emotional decision, where to move, how to move, and so on, and drive back down into action. Do you have people do balancing of any sort as they get older? What would you suggest?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 25:59

Yeah, the foot is very rich with sensory fibers, so it's like screaming to feel things. Yeah, and balance is a factor. I mean, walking is single limb support 40% of the gait cycle. So walking is a balance activity as we age the sensitivity of the receptors on the bottoms of the feet start to decrease. So, for example, when I turn 50 this year, what 25% of the receptors, excuse me, the receptors on the bottoms of my feet. It will take 25% more pressure to stimulate those so you start to lose the sensitivity to those receptors. So at 50, those numbers are about 25% when you turn 75 those numbers increase 75 80% so we have a steady and pretty a pretty quick decline of the sensitivity of these receptors. They have got to be trained. So things like balance barefoot. I'll have my patients balance, and 10 seconds is a minimum. And then what I'm I'm doing a lot of visual work now, so I'll have them balance. And then can they turn their head right and left, both one foot, single leg, okay. Can they look up and down and you'll see the foot doing this, which is good. That means it's navigating. It's like, okay, I feel you right. I feel I'm trying to help you, because we want to mimic what we're doing out there. If we were walking down the sidewalk and someone said, Hey, Courtney, and I go to turn, I want my foot to be able to say, Okay, I feel you. I got you. So those are the things that I like to train to kind of mimic what we're doing. And that's why I think balance is great, and we can really challenge that with visual changes.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:03

Do you When would you suggest someone to perturb the surface, like with a foam mat? And you know, you have like a, like a schedule of when someone would transition to maybe 30 seconds, one foot on the on a floor, and then maybe with a phone, with a piece of foam.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 28:22

If someone can't balance on the ground there, I'm not putting a foam pad underneath. So that's like, this is first. You know, when you start putting foam underneath the foot, right? It actually your proprioception is challenged, so you rely more heavily on your visual and vestibular systems. So you have to really know what your goal is. What are you trying to accomplish? And I am kind of very adamant on get let's get you stable on the ground first, then we can start challenging with those types of things.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:56

Isn't that? Isn't that some of the problem with some of those gushy shoes for exactly what you just said.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 29:02

I was at Tre, which is the, it's this big running event every year, and they, all the shoe companies are there, and there was a guy, they had a there was a shoe, I won't mention any names, that had a 50 plus millimeter stack height. Okay, so that's a shoe that has a lot of cushion and material underneath the sole of the foot. And I'm talking to this guy, and I swear he was standing there like this, like, I'm like, can you because he couldn't, like, it was literally like he was standing on a pillow, and I'm like, You got to take those off. You're making me dizzy. But he couldn't, like, you know, feel the ground and, you know, I actually saw this yesterday, but you know, in the Ironman races, for example, it's illegal to run with a shoe that has greater than 40 millimeter stack height. So there's reasons why you don't want too much stuff. Underneath the sole of your foot. And, you know, there's always a compromise or a trade off, if you will, with these shoe characteristics. You know, when you put a shoe on with a lot of cushion, you're going to walk in that and you're going to be like, Wow, this thing feels comfortable. It's helping me, but I will tell you, there is a trade off, and the trade off is, the more stuff between what your foot can feel in the ground, the less sensory acuity you're going to get. So balance is going to be affected, you know, especially with the aging population. I mean, you don't want that. You don't want to challenge their sensory acuity when we know their strength is declining. Sarcopenia happens in the foot too. Their sensitivity to the receptors is declining, and now you're going to put a cushion underneath your

Dr. Spencer Baron: 30:52

foot, right? So I have several patients that are runners at South Florida. What do you expect? You know? And they come in with and I, and I really don't care, I'll say names hokas and on clouds, and they go, Oh, it's the best shoe ever. I'm going, Yeah, but you're, you're, you're walking on cushions, really, you know, it's like, I don't know if you should run in those. So you don't have to answer that.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 31:16

Well, I think, you know, my analogy that I use with is having the right tool for the job, you know, like, if you think of cycling, if you were a cyclist, for example, or a golfer, yeah, you're not going to go on the golf course and have a driver. You need a driver, you need a putter. You need an iron for different shots, right? And that's the same thing with footwear. You can't strength train in your 40 millimeter cushioned running shoe, right? That those aren't the same requirements. When you're in a gym and you have heavy load, you want your foot to feel the ground. That's how you get your stability. Yeah, you know, if you want to run in that type of shoe, you know, I will do my best to talk, to talk some sense into you.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 32:06

You said something, even at the summer, that our feet had to be twice as strong as our hands. And when I mentioned that to people, they go, huh? I mean, and I go, Well, you're walking, you're pushing a hard 70 pounds. Can your hands do that? And they go, No. And they go, Well, we have to get you to think below the need for everything about the need to work better.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 32:27

Nice grip strength is a big like one of those testers for longevity, like, how much can you grip right? And you know, there's now research looking at toe strength and saying, Hey, this might be a better predictor of quality of Aging and Longevity, because it's a functional, I mean, it's a functional assessment. So that's why all my patients were looking at their toe strength, how well they can engage the ground. I know I always talk about that anterior fall envelope, but you know, you should be able to stand barefoot, and then, you know, lean forward about four and a half inches, and your toes are what stops you. And you'll see people like, you know, they won't gain the distance. They'll try to pitch forward at the hip. That's a problem, because that's when falls happen, initiation of gait

Dr. Terry Weyman: 33:21

we got when those toe dynamometers and, yeah, it's amazing how many pickleballers and tennis players that complain a foot problem and it's supposed to be their big toes would be 10% their by weight, and they're like, 4% and they're like, I'm like, your fear is so weak. And they're like, I never thought that, you know. So thank you for that tip you gave us.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 33:42

Yeah, that's a cool little device that Tommy showed created, and I, I do like it, and it's all, I mean, I've been doing it for I have a lot of patients that have some numbers with that thing, and I'm still to this day, like when you test two through five. Oh, it's crazy. Flexor digitorum brevis, right? It's almost like, when you have a patient with heel pain, it's almost certain that they're not going to be able to to engage that foot. It just goes so hand in hand. It's crazy and it's wild. I mean, a lot of people cannot. They can't even, like, keep that thing on the ground?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 34:21

Yeah. So a functional neurologist instructor told me a while back, and it was really quite a revelation, walking is just a sequence of falls, yes. And I thought, Yeah, true. So imagine if your foot's not functioning properly, that you're really falling, and that's what South Florida is known for, is the geriatrics falling. So your word is gospel. Let me ask you, do you have patients that still come in and you too Terry, that wear ankle ankle weights and train in those I haven't heard that probably.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 35:00

Yeah, oh, I just recently did not as, not as many as is. I think I is used to, I mean, you know, increase loads. I think there's any way. There's ways that you can load the foot like, one of my favorite things to do with patients are farmers carries, because you can get a lot of good load through the foot and ankle with the farmer's carry. I don't really like to have anything like gripping my lower leg.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 35:31

I can't get them small enough to get around my ankles. It's like Barney Fife. They just fall down. Fife.

Unknown: 35:40

I haven't heard of that in a while.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 35:45

Think he's dead anyway. Let me ask you about bunions. You know, we get patients that are quick to go get bunion surgery. You obviously shared that you've had that. What do you suggest for people? You know, the toe spacers are one thing, but when they're in pain and it's past that point, you know, what are you doing? What are you suggesting for them, without surgery?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 36:13

I've been looking at people's feet for probably 15 years now, if not longer, I can probably count on one hand patients who have had painful bunions that have had to go to surgery, because even when there's easy interventions to first try number one being the shoe, patients will be like, I'm in a wide shoe and my bunion still hurts. A wide shoe is not a wide toe box shoe. It's a wide shoe with the metatarsal heads. So if that toe box is still tapered, it's still going to cause a problem with footwear. Look at the material of the upper. So the upper is the top of the shoe. So with my patients that have bunions that are painful, I'll make sure that the upper is made of mesh, or, like a giving material. A lot of footwear will have seams, like leather seams that go over where the bunion is. That's going to cause a problem. You know, obviously you're, you know, your heels, or your high heel to toe drop, or you're going to put more loads through that foot. So that's kind of number one. Number two is toe spacers. Get your splay going, and then exercise the foot. You know is, if you can, if you have bunions that are mild to moderate, you can really change not only pain, but how they're walking and their strength. And that's really an opportunity when those bunions start to get rigid. So that's when they like tuck this guy tucks under the second toe and you can't move it. That's a very different conversation, because bunions hammer toes. They increase the risks of falls. You compromise your balance and your stability. And so when this second when the bunion goes and migrates under the second toe, you'll see those patients where the second toes up like this, yeah, you really need to watch that, because there's a plantar plate here. And as that toe comes up, if that plantar plate ruptures, you know, now you have a disruption of the integrity of the forefoot, but again, that is, like, that's way down the road, so there's just too much that we can do to

Dr. Terry Weyman: 38:30

really, you mentioned like hammertoes, right? Yeah, claws, what do you do about those?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 38:38

So with hammertoes, when I'm always watching people walk, and I'll watch them on a treadmill, and I'll see where I start to see their foot clawing. So for example, if I was walking and I go to push off, so this would be terminal stance, and I see the toes curl like they're digging into the floor at Terminal stance. It's called flexor stabilization. And basically what that means is their foot is not strong enough, so they flex everything to try to push them forward. So it's a flexor stabilization hammer toe. The other time you'll see that is as this foot starts to go through swing phase, then you'll see the toes start to do this. If they have poor ankle dorsiflexion, because their brain's going I don't want you to fall on your face. So we're going to extend the toe so extensor substitution to clear the ground. So when I see terminal stance hammer toes, I know I can work on intrinsic foot strength, in working on push off, in working on plantar flexion strength, if I see them. During swing phase, I'm working on ankle dorsiflexion. I'm working on strength of the anterior compartment. And then we're working on getting those toes to settle down. So, you know, it's a muscular imbalance, but if you don't catch it early enough, then these guys become rigid, and it's a problem,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:19

good stuff. I think it's a good moment to ask you, or reiterate the question I asked you via email about a new pair of running shoes, when not to, because we had talked in the past about minimalist shoes and why some people do well with them, and how to transition. So I started garnering this idea that maybe an old pair of running shoes accommodates more of a barefoot approach. And you said, No, he told me, No, you should get a new pair. You know, every six months or so, depending on the mileage. Well, could you elaborate on how you know, wear a minimalist shoe versus an old shoe, and a new shoe is appropriate for somebody.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 41:08

The materials in the shoe start to break down and wear down. So the more cushion you have in the shoe, the faster those materials can break down. If you ever look at a shoe, and you look at the sole of it, like the EVA materials on it, and you start to see those wrinkles in the material. Yeah, they're just compressing the shoe, yeah. And I'll take those shoes and I'll put them on my desk, and I'll look at them from behind in the wear you'll be able to see the wear pattern like sometimes the shoes will just be canted laterally because they've worn down the outside of the shoe so much. So it just it's going to compromise how they're moving. The less sole of the shoe, the longer the shoe typically lasts, because there's nothing to break down. So that's how you kind of, you know, and I'm not saying everybody has to be in a minimal shoe. That is not, you know, it's never say, oh, always, never, not the words you want to use in the foot world. Some people do, well, there others don't, but you want to, kind of pick the the least amount of cushion necessary to complete the task that you can handle. Love.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:24

It good. So you do. Would you suggest to everybody, depending on their mileage, every six months,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 42:32

considering I tell my patients, at a minimum, new pair of shoes every six months. Okay, cool. And then the other thing to consider, too is like DSW shoes that you get on sale. When shoes sit in a warehouse, by the way, like people be like, I saw the shoe, it was on sale, so I bought five pairs of them. The materials start to change, so don't do that either. Go and buy your pair of shoe.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:04

Interesting, really cool, good. Because I've known people that love a pair of shoes. They're afraid that they're going to be, you know, the manufacturers not going to make them anymore. They buy four pair. Okay, cool. So you go to a podiatrist. He loves putting in orthotic for 405 $600 whatever it is, what do you tell a patient

Dr. Courtney Conley: 43:28

you need to ask why they're putting you in them in the first place, and what is your exit strategy to get out of them?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 43:38

Nice. I love when he goes,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:43

almost registered on the Goosebumps

Dr. Terry Weyman: 43:45

scale. Oh, that's one of my favorite things when he goes.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 43:51

It could be very helpful. And I have acute foot pain, I need an orthotic. Great, go. We're going to get you a well made orthotic, but I want to know how I'm going to get out of this thing. Wow. What are you going to tell me to do to strengthen my foot so that I have an exit strategy for this foot orthosis? Or why are we doing this?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 44:14

So how do you keep a straight face when someone comes in with a five year old pair of orthotics that are so beaten down and their feet are hurt, and they go, these don't work anyway. What do you tell

Dr. Courtney Conley: 44:23

them practice? I've had, I've practiced keeping my like Game face. Hey, if they only come in with one pair of foot orthoses, that's a good day. Sometimes people will have spent 1000s of dollars, and it's so interesting to me. I'm like, they'll go to see somebody, and they'll get a foot orthotic. It didn't work. So then they try another one, and then they try and I'm like, this is the definition of insanity, right? We're trying the same thing over and over again. And it's like, what if we just paid attention to what you're putting on top of it? And then we can see maybe you need less of this. And so it should be this and conversation when we talk about foot. Orthotics. It's you're wearing this and you're doing this, but you can't. You're never going to find a device that's going to, you know, do what this foot can do. So you train it, you deload with the orthotic if it's necessary, and then you find a way to get out of that thing, unless there's some sort of structural pathology or, you know, something that you can't be changed.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:28

Interesting fad, I don't know. It's not a fad. It's a manufacturer. Cool thing that, where they used to, they started putting a little a slot in the tongue of the shoe, so you can put the lace through and it it. I mean, this is age old stuff, but now they put elastic, like a band that they connects to the tongue and it wraps around your foot. And I, I've had a patient, in fact, even it happened myself, that band is, yeah, it does the job. It keeps the tongue, you know, straight, yeah, but it irritates the sides of your feet, or at least the lateral edge. And I had a patient complaining, and they had no idea why, and they have an irritation where the band is. I go cut that damn thing and then just right. I mean, I mean, I don't know if you've ever experienced that or thought about it. Have you ever seen anything like that, where a shoe comes out with this new

Dr. Courtney Conley: 46:28

Well, a lot of the shoes, too, they're they'll have like, you know, some of the heel counters, for example, they'll have a lot of, like, cushion at the heel counter. And then people who have irritation at their Achilles, it's like they keep rubbing that thing up against the, you know, because there's just too much stuff.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:45

Yeah, I'm treating somebody that has, you know, irritation to the heel because, and I looked at I told them to bring their sneaker in, and it's so padded back there.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 46:57

What are you thinking? That's like, my first like, lowest hanging fruit. Check the shoe. It should be in the shape of the it should respect the anatomy of the foot. And you start there, and I can't tell you also, there's so many times where they're like, Wow, that's that really made a difference. And, you know, it's a simple it's a very good place to start.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:19

Any suggestions on when somebody, there's so many orthotics out there and so many types, any, any thoughts of what the public should look for when, if they do want to get an orthotic

Dr. Courtney Conley: 47:32

with photo orthoses. I was telling a colleague of mine this the other day because she was asking about it. My kind of, if we're going to go that route, I like a deep heel cup. So that's kind of my, you know what I look for a lot of what we're trying to do is, you know, we want to modify loads, and it's basically controlling some of this deceleration at the foot. A lot of people don't have control. So when you get those foot orthoses that are basically flat and you're trying to help with control some of their ability to, you know, Evert or invert the calcaneus, that thing's still going to be like this. So that's when I like that, like, deeper heel cup. And there's some good companies out there, and I always work with, like, a good pedorthist that I can call that. I can be like, Okay, this is how I want if we go the custom route,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:29

so I don't get it as much. But patients that come in with heel pain at the bottom of the foot, and they go to the podiatrist, the podiatrist X rays, and they go, Oh, you got a heel spur. Yep, talk to me. And they get injected, sorry. Go ahead,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 48:48

those heel spurs typically are asymptomatic, so those are not typically pain generators. One in 20 people have them. They're very common. They're actually not off of the plantar fascia, the bone spur is from abductor digiti minimine and flexor digitorum brevis. So when, again, when the foot hits the ground, if I don't have good control or deceleration, you start to speed through pronation, and then you start to get that tug, and that's the formation of those bone spurs. But those are not typically pain generators, unless you take a big old aggressive acrylic orthotic and you shove it up into the heel, and then people are like, Oh, this thing hurts. I'm like, well, take that thing out and let's just strengthen your foot. But with heel pain too. You got it. There's a ddx there. Like, it's not always plantar fasciitis. Plantar fasciitis, plantar fasciopathy, like Baxter's neuropathy, is another big one that you'll see very similar spot that's often like people that tend to look like they're they stand a lot. Um. Them both feet look like they're over pronated with not a lot of strength, and they start to have irritation of Baxter's nerve. And that's pretty common. I'll have them lift all their toes and spread them, and if they can't abduct their little toe, that can typically be an issue with Baxter's nerve. Interesting.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 50:27

All right, I got two conditions that I think, personally, I want to hear what your opinion is. I think they're related. So one of them is the number one complaint, which is plantar fascias. And I think there's tons of information out there, and a lot of traps people get stuck in, from the, not only the night braces, to everything else, and they get stuck, and they waste months on all these contraptions. And what I think is tied to plantar fasciitis. And you, I want to hear you. We're seeing in sports, a lot of Achilles ruptures. And so I think there's a correlation between the two. I think it's a midfoot or dysfunction that's causing everything. But I want to hear your opinion, and not only what people get waste time on, but what's your correlation and why you think we're seeing in sports more Achilles ruptures, and does it correlate with Hawaiian fest size?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 51:23

Yeah, how much time we got more? So I think there's multiple things happening there. People's feet are weak. We'll just start there. Tissues share loads, so tissues don't work in isolation. So flexor digitorum brevis is best friends with the plantar fascia. They share loads. If flexor digitorum brevis is weaker, you're going to have more loads going through the plantar fascia. So that can start some of this process here, and it's this, you know, degenerative, repetitive process, or breaking down of the tissues. You know we this is what we learned. If you were to Google, what do I do for plantar fasciopathy? It would be orthotic, stretching the calves, very cushioned shoe. And I would argue, yes, that could be an early intervention when someone actually has acute plantar fasciitis. But keep this in mind, by the time people typically get into our offices, it's they're not going to come into our office with heel pain for a week. They're going to be like, I've had heel pain for three months. I've had heel pain for six months. We can't treat a chronic condition the same way we would treat an acute condition. So we can't be saying, well, here's a better orthotic, here's a more cushioned shoe. Six months down the road, we have to be saying, your foot needs some load here. Let's work on taking the orthotic out and start strengthening the foot. And so that's where I think, especially with the heel pain cases, we need to switch our kind of thinking about some of that, and start to look at integrating more load, and that, in turn, will start to load what's connected to it, which is the Achilles tendon. So like, you know, the calcaneus is just this bone floating in between the tendon and the fascia. So you load the foot, you got to load the tendon. So you have to be able to progressively load these tissues, you know? The other thing I think to keep in mind with this is it's never just a foot problem. I have never treated a heel pain case, and in particular, plantar fasciopathy By just treating the foot, there's a hip component. It's how they're loading their foot. There's something else is happening up that chain that's also contributing to what's happening at their foot. And that has got to be looked at. If you have patients with bilateral heel pain, you got to start thinking definitely outside the box. And more systemic? Is there some type of chronic inflammatory thing going on? Is there an autoimmune thing going on? Is it even heel pain? You know I have, was talking to a friend of mine yesterday, and he brought he reminded me of research Brenda Ellis, that was done with looking at patients with lower extremity symptoms. And 30% of these foot and ankle patients, the the originator or the pain generator was actually from the spine, even when they came in and they're like, I have pain right here. That was being referral pain from the spine. So I think as clinicians, we need to make sure we're also ruling out any type of derangement in the lumbar spine and things like that, because that will show up in the foot also,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:51

and the other way around too. You know, we've had people that they don't even talk about the weaknesses in their feet, especially pitchers. And they have all these upper body and low back complaints because they're making up for their speed or power because their toe, their big toe, is weak, right?

Unknown: 55:09

Yeah, let me body yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:13

What? When? When would you put someone who steps down in the morning and has foot pain that eases up because the they have plantar fasciitis. Or when would you put them in a night splint? In one of those plantar fascia splints?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 55:29

I don't use those a lot because sleep trumps everything for me. Yeah, so these patients that are like, I have this night splint, but, you know, I'm not able to sleep, I'm like, well, then bag the night splint, because there's a lot we can do without that night spent on but if you're not sleeping, then you're making it harder on all of us. Right, okay,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:53

and then I want to ask you of how fair it is for an orthopedic or a podiatrist to tell a kid he's got Sievers disease? Yeah, I cringe. I go, so what do you think you're gonna have that for life? The parents think that he has

Dr. Courtney Conley: 56:12

a disease where, why did they change that name up? Thank you. Thank you. And see, use our words very carefully, yeah, and

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:22

that's in the nomenclature severs disease. And I go, that's not fair. You want to describe what sever sever severs disease.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 56:30

People with with these diagnoses, especially with the children, so inflammation at the heel. You know, we have to really watch that, because parents, you know, they're going to do whatever is necessary for their child. And keep in mind the foot is developing six years old, seven years old, eight years old, so we have to let the foot feel the ground so it can develop. And, you know, people get scared when they see their two year old with their feet, you know, pronating, excessively pronating, and they think, Oh, I have to get something underneath their foot, and that foot is still developing. So I encourage my parents to, you know, let their foot, the child's foot, feel the ground, get it strong. That's important. You know, there's a really cool study looking at the development of the sustentaculum, and where they looked at children who were barefoot more when they were younger, and via the feedback that they were getting, they found that the development was better of that sustentaculum, right? So it kind of assisted in the development of the foot, because if that guy develops and it doesn't have that little lip to it, then you have that issue with excessive pronation as they age. So those are all little things that you want to like pay attention to. So with the kids, I'm always like, do what you can. It's okay let their foot get on the ground, and then when they start to get a little older, if they don't have good control, then we talk. We'll have that conversation.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 58:05

I'm so glad Spencer brought Severus disease, because I worked with the junior national gymnastics team. Every kid came up to me, and before I could even say, these are like, under 14, and they're all going, I have Sievers. I have Severus disease, every one of them, and they all train barefoot. They all, I mean, they're running, they're doing vaults, or doing everything barefoot, every one of them. I'm like, Oh, my God, the fact that you can even pronounce it. But you know, what's your when you when you're working at these high end national level, and we all know that the parents are like crazy at that level, you know? They're all, you know, we need blood testing. We need this. We need that, you know, because there could be the next whatever. How do you what's your what's your dialog?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 58:52

Gosh, my daughter just started high school basketball, and she's a freshman. I didn't realize how intense these high school sports were. Like, it is no joke. She's in that gym two hours a day, every day, and when I got their schedule, she brought it home, and I was like, well, where, What day are you strength training? And she's like, What do you mean? And I was like, Well, you have two hours of running practice on the basketball court every day. What day are you strength training? She's like, What we don't and she's like, Mom, don't get involved. Do not call a coach. I just made the team. She's like, You need to relax.

Unknown: 59:42

I it. She knows I was like, I'm ready to pick up the phone.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 59:50

I can't imagine saying, Courtney, you need to relax. Oh, watch me.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 59:56

I mean, it is a especially with high school sports. These kids that intervention of strength training. I mean, they're like, We don't want to strength train the amount of loads that some of these kids are doing with this running and repetitive over and over again. That's a lot of load. They have to have that component of strength in mobility. And I think I would rather see her team sub out one of these practices and have a day of strength training. For example, she's very funny, by the way, she she's getting her knees taped. So she has some patellar tendonitis. And I'm like, every day she comes out of she's like, I gotta go to practice early. I need to get my the athletic trainer has to tape my knees. And I said, you do know I taught for rock tape, right? Like, I literally taught, I probably taught that trainer how to tape their your knee. And she's like, No, No, Mom, they do it different. I'm like, Okay,

Unknown: 1:00:56

it's very It's very funny, I think,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:00

especially and I both have gone through that with our kids.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:05

My son adjusts his neck in front of me, dude, I'm right here. It's easy. I could just do it.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:14

And I love the line. Oh, they do it different. And then

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:01:19

I'm waiting for her after practice for 30 minutes. I'm like, what were you doing in there? She's like, she's like, we had to ice my knees. I was like,

Unknown: 1:01:26

God, oh man,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:29

all right. Well, before we go to the our favorite section, rapid fire, I just got leave the audience with foot health, strength, anything like that. For 2026 was three tips that everybody should start doing the moment they listen?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:01:46

Let your foot feel the ground. You know, I like Spencer. We talked about that balance drill like that's something easy to do, barefoot, foot on the ground. Let your foot feel add some head positions in. I really like that. And I think that's something that can be easily incorporated if you are not used to having your foot on the ground, take your shoes off, walk around barefoot, regardless of how sensitive your foot is, start with small doses, because I think that will go a long way. Wear footwear that respects the anatomy of your foot, at least. Go with the toe box that's wide, where your foot can actually splay and get comfortable in the shoe. And then, you know, I mean, I think just being aware of what the foot does is very important. Walking to me is, you know, I think it was Norman Deutsch. He said it was the panacea of medicine. Walking is one of the best things that we can do. It's the lowest hanging fruit. It's the most easily accessible, underutilized treatment. Really, I think, as chiropractors, I mean that should be on our treatment protocol is you need to be walking X amount of steps from a mobility perspective, from a strength perspective, looking at cadence, so those things, and really taking into account how much time we are at our feet, and if you're not hitting the numbers, it's an easy thing to implement.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:15

I often look at someone's gait to see how they walk, and I learned in this functional neurology program that walking is one of the most primitive things you could do. Yet people are focused on Okay, the doctor's watching me. Let me put one foot in front of the other, and it's not real. So I'll oftentimes ask them to repeat or recite out loud the months of the year. And then they do, but you can watch them, they start to falter a little bit, and then I step it up. If they're still not showing what I'm looking for or any kind of faults, I'll have them out loud say the months of the year, skipping every other month, so January, March, May, July. Are you kidding me, the stuff that comes out? Yeah, I'll see some. I go, why is it your why is your left arm not moving? Oh, I didn't tell you I had a fracture there or something. I go, how could you not tell me that you know that kind

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:04:19

of thing moving? I think I'd start moving because I'd have to think I need every part of my anatomy to focus on the damn months of the year. I'm do one more thing. I'd be like January.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:04:33

I had a patient. I think I told this Terry, when I was in teaching in Vegas, there was a patient of mine, probably one of the smartest guys I've ever met. He was like, building rocket ships at NASA super, like, cerebral. And I was watching him walk, and it was like, just, I could not get the guy to relax at all. So I'm like, listen. I'm like, we're going to start naming states. Oh. Oh, as he was walking, so he starts walking down my office, and he goes depression, anxiety.

Unknown: 1:05:12

I was like, I was looking for New York, but okay, he starts laughing, and I started laughing. I was like, All right, we need to also talk about other things. But that is great. I love that cue. It's great.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:05:31

Oh, all right, we're good. We are jumping into rapid fire questions. If you recall, there's five of them from Yes, you know, they're going to be totally different than the first show, but I want to prepare you that we need, you know, concise, brief answers. So if you're ready, let me know. Okay, ready? Question number one, give us one sneaky foot exercise people can build into normal life like, you know, brushing teeth, waiting in line, cooking dinner. That actually works.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:06:03

Do little foot clocks. So, like, as you're standing, you can kind of lean forward in your shoe and just feel your toes engaged. Then you can go to three o'clock, you can go back to six o'clock and then go to nine. So you're just doing these kind of little isometric holds barefoot, all right, yeah, Orange. I mean, ideally barefoot. But if you're like, you'll see me on the airplane. I'm doing all this stuff,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:06:24

not because you're hitting turbulence.

Unknown: 1:06:27

Can you, can you do the Michael wearing two cushion shoes?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:06:30

Can you the Michael Jackson, where you really lean forward? Can you, Oh, that'd

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:06:36

be cool. All right. Question number two, black tie event or a long travel day. What's your smartest foot care survival strategy when fashion clearly wins over function? Come on, Fess up.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:06:50

If those things are happening, I'm like, I have my little ball with me. I'm taking my fingers and I'm interlacing them in my toes afterwards, and I'm mobilizing the foot, and then I like massage in between the metatarsals, but afterwards, I'm always like, I want to get that splay so toe spacers, things like that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:07:10

This is not a question, but I have to ask you, Do you own a pair of high heels? I don't. Oh, wow. So she practiced what she preaches. All right, I'm impressed.

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:07:21

It took a couple years, but you know now I've, like, I've tried a couple years ago, there was a wedding Joe and I were going to and so I put them on, and it's the second I put my foot in there, I started bitching about it, and Joe's like, just take them off, because you're going to ruin everyone's night. I

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:07:44

night at the conference, she had these, like, lace up boots. They were pretty freaking cool. And they're, like, barefoot shoes, but they're pretty they looked really nice,

Unknown: 1:07:54

all right, barefoots, those boots. I love this.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:07:57

We need to get a picture of those and put them on the site there, hey, what's question number three? What's the foot health question you get asked constantly that makes you either scratch your head or quietly lose your mind?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:08:13

That's a good question. Do you think I need another pair of foot orthotics with 10 of them sitting right there.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:08:24

There you go. Yeah. Question number four, what's one foot health question you wish people would ask, but almost never do,

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:08:34

hmm, ask, but never do. Yeah, you got me stumped on that one, probably in relationship to footwear, yeah, like, I want them to ask, like, hey, is this something that is good for my foot? And then, you know, because I think when you look at the footwear that's out there, we think that, like, this is good for us, because that's all we see. So I want people to ask questions, like, ask me a question, ask someone that knows what they're doing, a question, and get information. Get yourself educated, because then I think it empowers them to make their own decision.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:09:15

There. Hey, Spence, can I do a Part B on that one? Sure. Man, you've, you've know a lot of very intelligent orthos and foot doctors and and in the MD world, what's one question that you would think that they would know that they don't?

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:09:35

I think it's the same, the same conversation that I would have with someone who's getting a hip replacement, what is my what is the and conversation? How do we work together? Because that's where I think the magic happens. Is there is a time and a place for all types of interventions. I would hope that when I if I were to go see a podiatrist who wrecked. Mended some type of foot orthosis. If that's their lane, they say, Hey, this foot orthosis is going to help you, but I want you to go see so and so, and they're going to work on strengthening your foot. Like that's the conversation. If you have to have a bunionectomy, fine, but you better have go talk to this person afterwards. Or if that's in their wheelhouse, wear the right shoes. Start strengthening your foot. It can't just be this symptom intervention. It has to be, what is the why? Why did it happen in the first place? And what am I going to do so that this doesn't happen again? And that's where I think our worlds can really work well together, rather than being I live in this camp, or I live in this camp? No, we work together. We co manage.

Unknown: 1:10:45

Good. Last question, okay,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:10:50

with all the fads and the influencers out there chatting it up about a trending foot health idea, what's one thing that you would like to just kill off

Dr. Courtney Conley: 1:11:03

this year maximum cushion rocker shoes, like it's just too much. It's too much like I get it, you know that there is that's where this trend is going, but we're moving in the wrong direction.

Unknown: 1:11:18

Interesting, very good. Dr Courtney

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:11:21

Conley, I love this conversation. Thank you for being on the show today. Always awesome. Right on. Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Kraken backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast. Catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.