Willpower vs Whypower- Max Rooke

If you’re tired of working harder and getting the same results… this episode is for you.

Most people don’t fail because they lack effort.
They fail because they repeat the same thinking, habits, and identity—year after year—with new goals but the same outcomes.
Today on the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we go beyond motivation to expose the invisible mental patterns that quietly control discipline, confidence, and performance under pressure.

We’re joined by Max Rooke, peak performance coach, author, speaker, and Associate Head Coach at Pepperdine University Women’s Soccer, to break down the real mental game reset successful people need in 2026.

In this episode we explore:
• Why your habits, identity, and thinking—not effort—determine your results
• The mental patterns that sabotage confidence, focus, and execution
• What top performers fear more than failure
• How nervous system regulation beats willpower every time
• The one internal skill that separates clutch performers from quiet collapsers
• Three daily mental habits that actually rewire confidence and self-trust
• How breakthrough moments change everything—if you lean in

Whether you’re an athlete, coach, entrepreneur, or high-achiever quietly struggling with self-doubt, performance anxiety, or inconsistency, this conversation will change how you think about success, identity, and the mental work that actually matters.

About Max Rooke

Max Rooke is a performance coach, author, speaker, and Associate Head Coach for Pepperdine University Women’s Soccer, specializing in helping high performers master the mental game of confidence, decision-making, and consistency. He’s the author of Max Moments: Powerful Lessons to Help You Break Through From Good to Great, a book of impactful insights designed to shift thinking and elevate performance. His Life 2 The Max philosophy supports top performers, leaders, and teams in redefining success and living with clarity and purpose.

 Learn more and get Max’s book here: HERE

Max Moments book & breakthrough journal: HERE

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:01

Well, we're excited to have this guy back for round two. And you know, I was gonna start off by, if we could fast forward one year from today, will your life be any better? Will be any different, or it'll be the same story, and you just keep writing goals on a piece of paper and you ignore them. So this isn't a start of the year and first quarter prep talk. This is some reality to try and get people out of their slumps, because a lot of time people just talk, but they have no action. So welcome to the stage again for round two. Max rock. How are you buddy?

Max Rooke: 0:40

I appreciate it. I'm honored, blessed and grateful to get the call back for round number two. So that is already there. I just feel like I'm in a great place. So thank you very much for having me.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:53

You're very welcome and just you know not that we just didn't have anybody else we could put on. We needed a filler.

Max Rooke: 1:02

Yeah, I remember from last time it's just like, you know, I'm saying, I love the banter.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:10

Well, you all you, you are Australian, so, yeah, we have to,

Max Rooke: 1:17

I do get that a lot to be fair accent, and the American accent is like, merged together, and it somehow creates, like, everybody thinks

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:26

I'm from Australia. So and by the way, Spencer, before we really get into this, have you ever seen his photo when he was a pro footballer? He doesn't look anything like this. I see these, these pictures that would come out. He doesn't have the spiky hair, the short hair, he was pretty gnarly looking. So, so, I mean, he had that, that English vibe of like a pro footballer. It's pretty freaking cool. You look him up sometime. It's pretty cool.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:54

All right. Now you mean football, not football, not American football. Let's be clear, food

Dr. Terry Weyman: 2:03

soccer, which we're the only country that says that stupid thing. Anyway, you know what I want to start off with, how I introduce you. And I see this all the time. I see this in young people. I see this in older people, and they get stuck in the same rut, and they want change, but they don't seem to get out of their own way. And if somebody keeps repeating the same thing year after year, you know, they get out of college and they think the world is just going to open up to them, and they just sit there waiting for the life to come to them. It doesn't, you know. And you work at the college with new goals, the same outcomes, what's the invisible identity that they're protecting without realizing it?

Max Rooke: 2:41

Man, with the big question straight out the gate, what is the identity that's I think? Man, what I love about every new year, you know, we're in what February right now. What I love about each new year is there's this zest. There's like, it's almost like these, these certain markers in life give us checkpoints to be able to start to rethink, okay, like, you know, what do I want? What am I about? Like? And so that's where these new year's resolutions come out. It's where you stop. You know, have these people have this energy leading into January, and then what happens? Like, 80% of people fail on their goals and their their ambitions and the things they want to change by the end of the month. You know, we're now into February, and February, no, seven, you know, like you say, people don't follow through on those things. And so I think there's two components to I think the first is, you got to have clarity, right? You got a clarity on what it is that you want. I think that many, many people, they don't know what they want, they can tell you exactly what they don't want, you know? I can tell you what I don't want to do. I don't want to be unhappy, you know? I don't, I don't want to be I don't want to be miserable anymore. Like, Well, okay, great. Well, how you going to do it? Like, so I think some people to start off with are not clear on what they want. And I think if you can get clear, and you can have clarity on what it is you want, not what you don't want, not what you're trying to avoid, but what are you actually trying to move towards? I think that is such an important piece, you know, but then, but then, I think this is what you're alluding to. And I love this quote, and I've kind of used it. It's kind of a mantra of miners, is the purpose of the goal is not to reach the goal. The purpose of the goal is what it makes of us and who we become in the process. And so I think that shift of like being so goal driven by kind of understanding who we need to be to get that which we want, I think, is a different way of looking at things. And as you know before, from last time, like I'm such a fan of looking creating a different perspective on things. You know, what is, what is? You know when you look at something and you see it one way. And maybe there's a small shift that can create an extraordinary result. You know what small shift can can give you a different level up to achieve the things that you want to overcome, the things that hold you back. And so one of those things, I think, is this idea of like being goal driven, but then understanding that the purpose of the goal is. It really isn't to reach the goal purpose. The goal is what it makes of us, what it challenges us to do, who it challenges us to become, and from that who we become in the process. And so that identity shift, I think a lot of times we want things, but what we want doesn't match who we are. So then we have to go about the process of trying to figure out who we need to be to get that which we want. So it's one thing to make goals, and it's another thing to match that with who we are, you know, and I don't think many people go through the process of actively, actively trying to change who they are so it can match the higher goals that they have and the higher dreams that they have in the next level that they want to pursue. So, yeah, it's great, great question.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 5:49

It's interesting for the viewers out there and listeners, it's if they can answer the question, you know, what's the worst time in their life? They always talk about the bad stuff first, you know what they don't want, like you would, you know, paraphrasing what you had mentioned, and they're often quick to be able to cite several bad examples. But yet, when you ask them, you know, talk about something good, and they have to think about and sometimes they don't have the answer. So you know, that's a good challenge to start the show with, just that alone, if there's anybody, yeah, oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Max Rooke: 6:26

Go ahead. I look at it like our adversities are our advantages, you know? Yeah, it's a different way of looking at it, you know, it's all perspective, right? And again, I go back to what I talked about last time a second. I'm such a big fan of these small shifts that could create different results. If you could just see that your adversities are actually your advantages. Man, that's a whole different way of looking at it. You know

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:48

so well you said the golden word perspective. Everything is perspective, and that will either motivate us or depress us, either one. It's all a matter of perspective. So if there's anybody super qualified for answering the next question. It's you as a coach, as someone who is a master motivator of your athletes and people, and you write it in the book and take it to the max. So most people wait to feel motivated before they act on something. I mean, I've been involved for that as well, but from a performance psychology standpoint, why is that kind of backwards? And what would you say about that? What drives that lasting change?

Max Rooke: 7:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, motivation, for me, broken down, means what is, what is your motive for action, right? You know, and I've always looked at that like she's motivating quotes and and I love those, and I post those myself like that gives us these boost of energy, right? It's like him, what's you know, what's your motivation? What's your why, and, but broken down, really, motivation is, what is your motive for action, right? And because action has to be preceded by something, has to be preceded by by a motive, right? And an intention, if you will. And so goals are a part of it, but, but I love distinguishing this, and I and I know we've, we've had sort of discussions about this before, but like this, this timeline, right? There's this timeline, or I should say, like a linear line, and oftentimes there's two ends where a lot of stuff happens, where a lot of action happens, right? And it's when we are inspired by something or when we get desperate for something, right? And so for me, I always talk about this idea of the difference between good and great, right? Well, you know what's in the middle of that? Like, linear line is good, right? A lot of people have a good life, right? They they have, they get good results, not great, but they get good results. And also things aren't tough in their life, or maybe, you know, every now and again, something happens, but they're just kind of sat in that, that that zone of like, good, like, I'm okay. Things aren't necessarily the way I would hope they would be, but they're not bad enough for me to make a change. And so we, we kind of spend a lot of time just swirling in this area of like, good. But when we can get out of that, and we can get, you know, motivated, right to tell this motive for action, if you will, it really comes down to pushing ourselves to one end of the spectrum, and that's we can be inspired by something when you get inspired by something when you get you know, I did like the energy. I thought it's grabbing my shirt. For those of you like Not, not necessarily watching this, right, if you're listening to it. So I'm grabbing my shirt when you're pulled by something like that invisible energy that pulls you towards something. You're being inspired by something, you move and it's like, Man, I'm going after that. I want to make this change. Maybe I want to make this change myself. Maybe I want myself. Maybe I want to make this change to make the world a better place. But you get inspired by something and it pulls you towards it like there's different energy from pull versus push. When you have to push to make something happen that's different from something that pulls you towards it like a magnet, right? And so when you're inspired by something that can create. Get a lot of great things in our life. Now on the other side, on the other end of the spectrum, is desperation equally as powerful. And when we get desperate, when things get so bad, there's no other choice but to change that can also be very powerful too. And so when we can move along the spectrum from either moving into inspiration or moving into desperation, that's where a lot of change happens. That's where a lot of motivation, if you will, that motive for action. That's where it happens. On two ends of spectrum, nothing really gets done in the middle. And I have a story, you know, if you want to share, I can share your story, a little bit about about, kind of how desperation is a powerful, powerful tool as well, right? And so, as you know, I work here at Pepperdine University, and so there was a time where we have a lot of players who are top of their game, you know, they're the best of the best. They come in, they're big fish in the little pond. They get to pepper on a sudden, they're, they're like the little fish in a big pond. So we had this player one time, there was Brielle priests, and I don't mind sharing the story. She doesn't mind me sharing the story. I've asked her if it's okay if I share this story on platforms like this, because ultimately, you know, she's, she's an amazing, amazing woman, and she's gone on and she's done crazy things. She's a firefighter, and she does all these amazing things, but she was a goalkeeper, okay, so if you know anything about soccer, which I know you guys do, but you know, for the listeners, even about soccer, then there's, you know, really carried maybe three four goalies on a team, but only one can play, right? Only one can play. And typically you have your number one, you have your number two, and then maybe have your three and four. So at this time in her career, early on in her career, that sort of freshman year, sophomore year, she was the number two. She was playing behind a very, very good goal, and so she wanted to be the number one, but at the same time, she wasn't the number three. She was the number two. So that meant she had all the perks of going on trips and and doing all these cool things and taking all and having all these experiences as part of the team, but she but she still wanted that goal of being number one, but nothing was really bad enough in her life where she was like number three or number four, and anything was in jeopardy So, but we saw this amazing potential in her. And I think Dr Spence, that's what you're talking about. There's a lot of people in life that have a lot of potential, and it's what we do with that potential, whether we choose to activate it. And so she had a lot of potential that we saw in her, but she wasn't activating this potential that we knew she had. So this particular time, she was like, you know, like, I'm doing okay. And Anyways, long story short, what happened was, is we were going to go on this road trip. And normally you take the two goalies, which means we would have taken Brielle as the number two. And we said, you know, we need to give her a little jolt of, you know, truth serum. Let's go. There was some true serum. So we we decided to take the number three goal, and we left Brielle the trip. So we take the number one goal and we take the number three goal, and what we obviously do is we go and we we post these, these lists, prior to the to the game, prior to the travel roster, prior to traveling. So Brielle assumes I'm going on this trip. We post the roster. I'm leaning in people within about two minutes. What do I get? Brielle? Ring me up. What's going on? This is not fair. I can't believe it. This sucks. I can't believe you're not taking me on the trip. There's no and she's just going off, like, I can't believe it, this is crazy. And I'm like, Okay. And she's like, Can I meet? I'm like, Absolutely, you can meet. Come on down. So action motivated. Boom. And she comes down the office. I can't believe it, this is not fair, that. And I said, Okay, well, let's talk about this just not fair. And I said, what's not fair? She's not It's not fair. I should be on the trip. I'm the number two. And I said, Well, what's not fair is that you're not fulfilling your potential. You have the you have the ability to be an extraordinarily amazing player and human being, and you're not even using 50% of what you've got. That's not fair. So we left her off the trip. We come back, come back. Sunday night, Monday morning. Who's the first person to practice Brielle? Who's the person who stayed up to practice Brielle, who's the person, first person who asked me to watch extra film, Brielle who's changed her diet, Brielle who's seeking extra help, Brielle who's sitting in the front class. Brielle, and all of a sudden her whole life changed. Wow. And to bring it all together, because I'm monopolizing all the time, but basically, she went from two years being never playing, never playing. She's being behind the number one. And then in her last two years here at Pepperdine, she went from being the number two to being the number one. And also on top of that, was the two time WCC goalkeeper of the year, and that's never happened since. And so she went from never playing to being the two time conference goalkeeper of the year. And the only thing that changed is she activates. It her potential, but it wasn't inspiration that did it, because inspiration was always there. I want to be the number one. What actually affected it was desperation. She got desperate. And so it's where we choose. What ends of the spectrum Do you want to find those levels of motives for action? But when nothing gets happens, it's right there in the middle. So hopefully that makes sense, but those are two places,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:24

Hey, Max with your insight, which is, it's priceless when you could tap into the the understanding and the psychology of the athlete. I'm just curious. What would you say to someone? Anyone that says, Oh, I just don't have time for that, or I don't have time.

Max Rooke: 15:48

If you don't have time, I mean, if you don't have time, then you don't have priorities. If you don't have priorities, you don't really know what you're what you're searching for, and if you don't want any searching for, then life has no meaning, you know? So when you actually back it up, it's like we create meaning by what we do in life. What we do in life has to be, has to be predicated on, again, our actions, and if you don't have time, and it's how you've not prioritized what's important in your life, and so and so, yeah, I'd encourage them to figure out what it is that they want, what it is that they want to do. That they want to do, what is they want to be known for, what it is that they want to they want to the legacy they want to leave wherever you know whatever, whatever you want to say, but, um, but that's that's not a time problem. It's a priority problem and a and a lack of vision.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 16:37

Beautiful, beautiful answer. So let's take high performers like prion. But any high performer, what do you notice most? The fear of failure or the fear of success in someone? Do you ever notice the difference?

Max Rooke: 16:55

Yeah, it's great. It's a great question. I think both, both can be a hindrance, right? I think you just said it really, really well, right? There's, there's this idea that, you know, a lot of people, automatically, they have this fear of fear of failure, like, what if I try and it doesn't, it doesn't happen, it doesn't work out. And that's a real thing. But I can honestly say I feel like I have felt this, and I have been victim of this, because we're all human, and you guys might feel the same, same way, but I think what you're referencing is that sometimes there is a fear of success, like, what if I actually do this and I can't handle it? What if it actually works out the way that I wanted to, and I don't have the ability to handle what's coming my way, and that's a real thing too. So, you know, yeah, fear, fear of failure, fear of success. But I would also add in this doctor Spence, I say this, you know, what is the difference between fear and faith, right? When you actually look at it, right? So there's the fear of failure, fear of success. But what is fear like? What is the difference between fear and faith? And the answer really is nothing. They're both made up. They're both imagination, right? Yeah, it's just faith. Is imagination directed, right? It's directed towards something. I have a faith that if I do this, this is going to happen. I've got faith that if I put my efforts here, it's all going to work out the way it's supposed to. When we talk about faith, when we talk about faith, we're not just talking necessarily just about spiritual faith, right? Which is obviously, for those that that that is a part of, then that's a very powerful tool. But faith is a faith in something that, if I do x, then y is going to work out, right? So, but really, faith is just imagination that's directed, and fear is imagination that's undirected. And when it's undirected, it takes you down past that you don't want to go. And you start listening to the negative thoughts. You start listening to the negative language. You start listening to the negative stories that you create about what's going to happen if it does work out, or if it doesn't work out, and that leads us down a tough path. So I love that question, and I think yes, there's a real, a real sense for high performance, that there is the fear of failure, but fear of success is a very, very real thing as well, you know. And I know I've experienced that as well, so I really appreciate and glad you saying that. Which comes back, can I just say this, which kind of circles back to this idea of what you want versus who you're, who you are? It's how we started the conversation. It's like people can know what they want, but unless you know who you need to be to get that which you want, then you know, I don't see many people working on the who. They work a lot on the what, what I want, but they don't work on the who, who do I need to be? And, you know, I have an analogy, can I? Can I sorry if I share it, share another analogy, you know? Dr, Terry, you're gonna like this one? Okay, gonna like this one because I'm like, so I'm from England. Okay, so I'm from England. And for those of you that like be able to see this, watching it. When you go in the clubs, when you go in the clubs, right? You're in the club in England, right? So I'd like these, like, fun doing this is funny, but, um, you're in the clubs. So you have these, like, two dance moves, right? These two dance moves, and what you've got is you got top shelf right to the beat, like, top shelf, bottom shelf, top shelf. That's one that's one dance move, right? That's one dance move. The other dance move is this, right? It's big box, little box, big box, little box, big box, little box, big box. Put the two together, and you have top shelf, bottom shelf, big box, little box.

Unknown: 20:37

And you can, and you can dance to any, any song and anything like that, right? So you're like, you guys are looking at me, going, what is this guy talking about, right? What are we doing here? How did this

Max Rooke: 20:48

apply to high performance? So I created this thought in my head about an analogy, and I called it the big box, little box analogy. And it's based off of that my dance moves, big box, little box, right? And what it is, what it is is simply, this is, if we have a goal, we have a big goal that we want. And let's say that's the big box, okay, if the other box, which represents who we are, if it doesn't match that box in size and quantity and stuff like that, then there's a discrepancy. And those two things aren't going to happen, right? So if you have this big box, and inside that big box is big goals, big dreams, unless you create a secondary box of who you need to be that matches that, then there is no way you're ever going to reach that goal, that dream, because how do I say it like we all act consistently with who we believe we are, right like the strongest force that resides within us is the need that we have to stay consistent with how we define ourselves and who we believe we are. So it really doesn't matter what your goals are. If you don't believe you are capable of that, then you're never going to reach it. Does that? Does that make sense? And so this idea of the big box, little box, again, I'm joking about the dance, but it's true. Like, that's that in my mind, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm in the clubs, big box, little box. But that's, that's high performance. We have these big boxes filled with big goals and big dreams, and maybe these little boxes fill with little identity, little faith, you know, little belief in who we are. And so we really have to work on expanding the box of who we believe we are so it can match, right? Because I said before, we all act consistently with who we believe we are, so we have to believe in a self that can match the goals that we have. So hopefully that makes sense

Dr. Spencer Baron: 23:04

in a big way. As a matter of fact, there, there's a Dr Joe Dispenza talks about, in one of his books about beating cancer, and he talks about a woman who was, you know, heading towards stage three cancer. But she had to change her life completely, and turned it around by by putting herself in that big box of health, because she was in that little box all her life, of, you know, poor eating habits, watching the news and how, how? You know, dismantling it is to your emotional, you know, integrity and you have to really, I mean, it may be, it may seem easy for some, but it is a challenge to completely change your life to a new identity.

Unknown: 23:57

For sure, absolutely so top shelf,

Max Rooke: 24:02

shelf, big box, putting together works with any genre. You can do it a country music, you can do it a pop music, you can do it wiper.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 24:21

You know, the 80 moves, you know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 24:25

I like it. We're stepping into the new, new era. Big Box, little box. Boy that, that would be, that is my takeaway for today. Hey, Max, you know, there's always been a conversation about mental toughness. Come on, you got to have mental toughness. But you know what? How does that work? And is it really a thing? Mental toughness and what is, what is willpower? You know what? You know? What does that really mean?

Max Rooke: 24:57

Yeah, I definitely feel like. So mental toughness is mental toughness, mental wellness, right? New space of like, very important, right mental health. But they're all kind of new, new ways of looking at old problems, if you will, right? And so gonna have mental toughness, you got to be resilient. That's another buzzword, you know, resilient, and I think they're all they're all connected in ways, and they all deal with with the same sort of thing. And then you mentioned willpower, right? Having willpower, and I'm trying to create these threads that kind of leads back to where we can see that there's some similarities. And everything that I believe in, everything I'm talking about here, which I know you guys understand, which is, is that you know, as soon as you said willpower expense, I think I said, for instance, that that that force right? And again, going back to that shirt being pulled by something, by being pushed by something, I like it when you said willpower, because the first thing that comes to my mind is the difference between willpower and why power, right? Willpower and wipe out when you have willpower, great, it's the, it's, that's the push motion. That's the push energy I just described, when you're trying to make something happen. Like, what? Like willpower, like you're forcing to make it happen. And let's be real, there are times in life where you have to do that, like, the door didn't open. Like, for you guys, you are, you know, I try to say at least every time I see you, like, I look at you guys, and I am so grateful to be a part of what you're doing, because I love what you're doing, and I'm really proud of you guys, and I and I see that you didn't get to where you where you got to, like that, like, there's a level of mastery that you had to obtain, and it took years to do it. And yes, there might have been some doors that were open, but I bet there was some doors that you had to literally kick down, right? You were like, it's not opening the way I want it to, so I'm literally have to go and kick it down myself. You know, I'm saying I'm gonna make the way. And that's that willpower that sometimes you have to have. So I think it's fair to say it's not just you know you shouldn't have willpower. I think sometimes you need to use willpower to create sometimes the momentum that you need in life to get where you want to go, but I don't know if that's sustainable, because constantly pushing for what you want and working hard for what you want is an important skill and character trait to have. No doubt, no doubt every high performer has that trait of hard work and discipline and fight and resilience and mental toughness. But sustainability of that can be difficult. That's where burnout comes in. So what's on the opposite of willpower is why power? And again, it comes back to the idea of desperation versus inspiration, because when you are living with why power, you know why you're doing it. And so it's a call to action, and it's almost like you're being pulled towards something, and therefore you know you're going to do it. I'll give you an example. Can I? Can I give you example? Because I love, you know, I love An example is almost, there's no big box, little box. We'll pass that. Okay, so take note, check we got that. Got big box, little box. Next one is like, for instance, if I said to you, you two, and I said, Hey, look. And I know you guys, you know, got awesome at what you do. And I said, Hey, there we stood outside this burning building. I said, guys, hey, guess what? Inside that burning building, right there is a $10 bill, and it's yours, and all you've got to do is go inside and that $10 bill is yours.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:42

I'm sending Spencer in.

Max Rooke: 28:49

Why he's going, like, what are we doing here? Yeah, I'm gonna get my mate to go in there. Gee, kidding me, I'm not doing that. No way. You're like, what are we talking about here? Coach, Max, right? So you're like, okay, all right, same scenario. You stood outside the burning building. We're looking at the burning building. I say, Hey guys, inside that burning building is a family member who you will be able to save. You will absolutely be able to save them. All you have to do is have the courage to go inside and go rescue what would you do then, of course, you go in there. Boom, let me go kick down the door. Bam. That's not willpower. That's why power. That's understanding why you need to go into the burning building, right? And so many people constantly trying to make things happen in their life, because we're trying to do it by willpower. But one of the most powerful energies we can possess is our why power, knowing why we want what we want, knowing who we need to be together and tapping into those resources. So that we come from a place of energy that is abundant because we know why we're doing what we're doing. And then you never run out of energy when you have that, by the way. And I feel like with you two guys, and I'm just gonna bring it back. That's why, when I met you two guys, first time, I saw the level you love what you do. You love what you do. And it shows every second. It shows on this podcast. It shows Dr Terry when we met in person, like it shows. And I don't think there's a day where you two guys show up with bad energy, you know? I mean, I imagine work for you guys, it's like, it's like, Showtime, go time every day, right? Because you love what you do. Why? Because you got wiped out, all right?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 30:40

Well, I let Spencer's things go down. What's the top shelf? You've been a pro athlete, and you've been a coach for several years at the one school, and you work at no offense on this. You work with women who you know are all over the map. What do you think is the one sentence that you see globally that sabotages most people on their health, their success? And I'm going to put a little extra cream on the on the coffee. What does social media? What role does that play in that one sentence?

Max Rooke: 31:23

Sabotage? Yeah, yeah. Now you're getting me into that place like whether, whether they outwardly say it or not. Okay, so when you're talking, when you say, What? What is the sentence? I think, I think the two things, I think the words that we say, and then there's the words that we think. So there can be a sentence which isn't outwardly expressed, but it's something that just resonates and it stands within our minds, locked there all the time, and that's I'm I'm not worthy, you know, like whether we say or not, you know, but that thought of, I'm not worthy, like, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I have the capabilities, or I don't know if I should be the starter. I don't know if I should be the captain. I, I don't know, you know, we, sometimes we're our own worst enemy, you know. And when we can actually see the power that resides within us, you know, which is not an easy thing to do, but when we can see what we've been called to do again, all kind of putting all the things. We can see our whys. We can see, you know, what we can we can build. We can build that little box into a bigger box to see what we truly capable of, when it matches, you know what we want and stuff, then I think we can overcome some of those, some of those resonant thoughts that just sit in our minds of I'm not worthy, right? And where that? Where does that come from? I think that there's we talked about fear earlier, right? I think that there's two fears. I remember going to Tony Robbins event. I know we talked about this on the last one, right? On the last one, we talked about Tony Robbins, how you been to it? Dr Spence, and he said, I remember him saying this. He's like, there's two fears that we all have, right, the fear that we won't be loved and the fear that we're not enough like those, the two primary fears that most of us have, obviously we have the fear of public speaking and stuff we need to come to like the emotion, not the physical, but the emotional, internal. The two fears that we have more anything else is that we won't be loved and we're not gonna be enough. And that's where that I'm not worthy comes from, because sometimes we just battle with that all the time, am I enough? Am I going to be loved? What's easier? Probably just not attempt it, not try it, stay safer, to sit on the sidelines and then to finish out. Dr Terry, what you said with social media. Well, what plays into that? I'm not worthy. And then you see somebody else who seems, quote, unquote, is rocking it. Then you're like, you should get into comparison mode. And Comparison is the thief of joy. And as soon as you start to get into comparison mode, that just feeds into that, I'm not worthy. Why? Well, she's doing it and he's doing it, and they're doing it. But the crazy thing about social media, and we've all done it, and I do it too, because social media is we post our best days. So oftentimes we are, we are comparing when we're in a tough state, I'm not worthy, we've had a bad day, and then we get on a social media and we're comparing how we currently feel our worst day, and we're comparing to somebody's best day. And when I will, of course, I'm not good enough. But what we don't realize is that they're never posting their bad days. They're never posting when they're like, you know, struggling now, there are a couple of people that have that authenticity and that authentic nature, and that's why they post, is because they want to, they want people to see themselves. I think that's why we fall in love with certain people. You see certain actors, and you know, when actually break their guard down and you see the other side of who they are, you're like, we tend to like, Come relate to them more, you know? And that's when they get these, like, lots of social social media follows and stuff and so. But for the 95% of social media, everybody's posting their best day. Everybody's posting them when they're at their best. And I. Not an easy thing to do when you're trying to compare your worst day with somebody's best day.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 35:04

You know, I so, that's so funny. You mentioned I was talking to a friend yesterday, and I go, I so want to see a Christmas card that's real. Every Christmas card there was a there was chance that there was a fight five minutes before that the kids didn't want to wear with mom wanted them to wear, Dad got mad at the kids for making mom upset, and the kids and the eyes are so bright because somebody was crying, somebody was pissed off, that nobody liked the lighting, nobody liked the background. And I go, someday something, I just want to have a picture where it looks like you just woke out of bed. You're flipping off the camera. You're like, Here, here's my family. And I think that would be so well received, because every Christmas card is fake, yeah, if you think about it, when you took them, they were, you had this perfect family look. I'm like, when is a family look that good? Never once a year for that Christmas card. So, 100% well said. So. And on that note, you also mentioned, what makes people great is when they they they're able to get back up, you know. And you compliment Spencer and I and, you know, full disclosure, there's been times when we just don't want to do this show anymore because we're mad at each other, whatever. But what makes us great, and what makes my partner great, is we are able to push through that, to get to the next level. We didn't get to this level that we are today. This is not how we started. We started. We don't even, I don't even recognize the people we were when we started. And it's because of of that, that and the belief and the trust and all that that we've gotten to this level. So on that note, what failure did you have that that your tools failed you, that you had to rebuild? And what did you learn from that?

Max Rooke: 36:54

I think two, two things I think I mentioned to you before that I think was on the last last podcast, I mentioned this that, you know, I had this goal of wanting to be a professional soccer player for a long time, and, you know, and making a career out of it. And then when you get told no, you get told you're not good enough, you're not strong like that, that knocks you for six, you know, when you think that you're heading down a path, and then all of a sudden, that path, you hit dead end. It's really hard to take, especially when you have a plan B or a Plan C. So that was that was crushing. That was absolutely crushing. And when I decided to come out to America, I honestly kind of going to think of shares. I honestly believe I wasn't trying to escape anything. I wasn't trying to escape I'm not like, hey, you know. But in my mind, when I got asked to come out to America, it provided a path that I knew nothing about. And I was like, this is an opportunity to create a new me, you know? Now maybe I'm not. I might not been, been sort of, sort of, at the time, well versed enough, and I've had all these experiences that I have now, and have all these reference points, and the name has done all these studies and stuff. But, you know, maybe unconsciously, I was like, this is an opportunity to create a new me, you know. And so I came out. I came out with a suitcase, a dream and a positive attitude, like we're going to make this happen somehow and 20 whatever years later, that was 1998 28 years later, and here I am on on this podcast, talking to you fine gentlemen. And it's like my life fundamentally changed because of what, what I would perceive to be one of the, not just one of, maybe the biggest setback that I've ever had in my life, which is, which is a coach telling you you're never going to make in in the in the game that you so love. You're never going to become the person that you said you set out your entire life to do that you dedicated up to that point, 1819, years of your life was dedicated to that, and then somebody says you're not going to happen. You're like, wow. Talk about identity, identity shift. You're like, Okay, how do we how do we reinvent ourselves, so that for sure, was was something, and then maybe a little bit newer, like more context for right now. Talk about not being worthy the life to the max or brand, and where I'm going with this. And the reason that you know you've invited me, which I really appreciate, to be on this podcast, is for the longest time I was worried what what people would think when I wrote something, or when I put a video out there, and and I spent, I spent far too long. So you for asking what, what was, what was a challenge, what was a an event. I think that I spent far too long worried about what other people would think of the material that I put out there. And I think I lost some years, I think I lost some years of impact because I was too concerned with my own feelings. What are people going to say of me? What if they don't like what I write? What if they don't like, you know, the book? I want to put out. And then I got to a point where I was like, What about the one person that it could impact, you know? And that's a different way of looking at it. And so then I had to build this level of courageousness and strength within myself be like, I need to look past that. Need to look past that. Need to look past what could happen, not what might happen if I, you know, if I just get the no, or I get the usurp, or you spelled this wrong, or like, you know, you look weird on camera, and much like you when you started your podcast, you had to go through some evolutions of yourself to get to where you are today. And I believe that I spent far too long worried about what other people thought, and when I finally got out of my own way, I wrote the book. Now create the journal the maximum is journal which I'm proud of too, that's come out the online programs just when I get asked to go speak like, like all of that. And again, it's not to impress anybody, but to impress upon you. Like that all happened when I got out of my own way. But I do regret the years that I spent wallowing in my own self, pity on my own self, worry about what my people might think and and I think it cost, yeah, sorry, emotional thing, but I think it costs years of impact, my worry, and I look back and I'm like, I could have helped so many more people if I just stopped worrying.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 41:27

Well maybe, maybe thank you for sharing that first, but maybe it took those years to make you even more impactful so but thank thank you for sharing that the athletes go back to your job as a coach, we're always built on stats. You know, every once and look at stats, and I'm even guilty in this podcast special crack up, because I'll be like, look at our stats this week. So we always are based on stats, right? And yet, what do you think is the one stat that is hidden that most people never show that never shows up on the stat sheet. But it's a one stat that either could sabotage you, it's an internal skill, or they can make you great. That is such a

Max Rooke: 42:12

great question. I don't have ever been asked that. That's such a great question. Yeah, there's definitely some, some intangibles in the game. So if I just, if I just speak soccer for a second, there's, there's, there's one, there's one moment that happened a few, a few months ago when we were in our season. So as you know, Dr spent, Dr Terry, Dr Spence, but we, won the championship this past year with peppermint stock back the fall of 2025 that was our last season. So the second time in program history that we won back to back championships. So we won multiple championships. Hard to win one, but we were fortunate enough to win back to back so not easy to do, but we did it, and we had a team of extraordinary young women that went through a lot and had to be all of the things we talked about had to be mentally tough, mentally strong, resilient, and although everything we talked about, but there was this player, and I'll share an end on my Tabby, lepel, and she was midfielder of the year all American, and I look at her, and I look at her experience and kind of her trajectory, and who she was when she when she came in, who she ended up being when she just left, because now she was a senior, she just graduated, but she had the enchanted, tangible quality of hunger, like There was a hunger that resided in her, that every training session, in every game, I'm like, it was, it was present, and when it wasn't present, you know, because every now and again, nobody's perfect. When it wasn't present, you could see it. You could see in our team, and you could see it in her, you know. And I'm talking, there's only a few times that happened. But on the flip side, an example of this idea of hunger is we were playing Santa Clara. And Santa Clara is an amazing program has a rich history. It always seems to be that we go toe to toe with them in terms of WCC and stuff, and so so much respect for them and what their staff has done for their program. And Every game's tight, so where this you were playing at their place, and the game is 00 and there was, like a goal that was called for, like there was a goal or call back, there was a PK potential, PK at the other end, and it was just back and forth and back, and it was 00, Anyways, long story short, there's like five minutes left to go in the game. All comes out to one of our players. Again, I'm now just reacting like a big box, little box little box. One comes out. Player takes on the chest, she opens up right, and she looks up and there's only, like, a few minutes left, and she's like, probably 30 yards out from from goal, and she's like, I'm just gonna whip this ball into the box. You know? I'm just gonna stick. In the box. I'm going to see what happens. And at that time, if I was to show you a picture, right before she kicks it, like she's winding up and she's just about to kick it as she's about to kick it, you look, there's probably about eight or nine of the Santa Clara players between the goal and Tabby, and everybody's looking at the ball, and all of a sudden, Peyton, who was the one who hit it, her head goes down. And now in soccer, that's like a signal. It's a cue. That's a cube. Since her head goes down, the next thing she's gonna do is strike it. So if your head is up, you're kind of scanning, head goes down. That's a cue. This thing's about to get launched, and all you see is Tabby, and she she runs. And now if you add our players who were also in the box at that time, let's just say of the 22 players on the field, let's just say there was probably about 16 players that were between Tabby and the goal. This ball comes in. She just blows by. Everybody meets the ball, matches the moment matches her run with the structure of the ball. Ball comes in, boom, heads the ball bottom corner. And we win that game one zero. And in a tight, tight game with two very good programs going toe to toe, matching each other, moment for moment, step for step, tackle for tackle. What was the difference? Hunger, a hunger to want to get to the spot, a hunger to want to make something happen, a hunger to say, I will not be denied. And that is something you cannot teach that does not show up on the stats. You know, it does show up in certain ways, because she obviously got the goal, but the stats will say Tabby scored the goal, but the goal is because of

Unknown: 46:55

humble Oh, you tell a great story, man.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:00

Hey, I got fired up. Jeez, goosebumps. Hey, Max. You know, if you could give three daily habits or mental habits that someone can take on for maybe the entire year, what would they do? What would it be something to rewire their their confidence or focus? Yeah, have anything?

Max Rooke: 47:30

Yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of things out there that that probably aligns with what I might say, which is, which is creating creating space for for the self. I think creating space for itself. I think creating white space on your calendar. You calendar, you know, like, seem to be always busy, and I think sometimes just taking taking time for ourselves, whether it be 30 minutes or an hour or whatever it's going to be. But I think that is that is key for me. Sacred is walks with my wife. Sacred every day, at the end of the day, we take a walk before we go to dinner. That, to me, is like, that's my time, but it's my time with my wife, but it's time where I'm not like, Oh well, I can't do that because I'm I've got another email to send. So that is sacred time that's built in. And if you can protect that time, I think that's the key, is being able to protect it. So it's one thing say, Oh yeah, I'll take a walk, oh yeah, I'll work out. But then sometimes things get in the way. So I think that the sacredness of the Act, the ability to say, nothing will come in the way of that. So for me, there's that one. I think how you start your day is majorly important. So however you start that day, whether that's with gratitude walk, which, which I will do, sometimes I don't time for a gratitude walk. It might be just journaling about things that I'm grateful for, things I'm grateful that's about to happen, you know? So I think gratitude is, is such an important thing. And then in the health space, just meditation or working out, but, but just activating, okay, activating ourselves, activating our minds, activating our bodies. I think, yeah, I think not get being so sedentary and set in our way. So, so that's three or four, whatever that was, but it's like sacred time for yourself. How you start your morning and maintaining health through activity, activity of the mind, activity of the body. I think those things are, you know, and you add that on top of being a doer and being an achiever and crossing things off the list and have it, you know, all those things, they're all important to achievement, but, but, yeah, got to make time for yourself and your mind and your body and spirit.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:32

Oh, hey, Max, first of all, thank you for that. At least I got, I think I got three out of three of those things. So I'm kind of excited about that. I'm just curious. Max, have you always been a motivator? I mean, you know, I'm just curious. You know, way back when, you know, was there a time you discovered, Hey, man, I know. I know this shit really well. I mean, I'm a master motivator. Was there a moment i. Um,

Max Rooke: 50:03

okay, so that's another great question, and I think how I want to answer it is to say this, I'm I'm a pretty quiet person. I'm a pretty shy person. So if you actually like, saw me like day to day, I'm not the loudest person in the room. I'm not the, you know, it's not that I'm I'm down. It's just, you know, I know if it's an English thing, but, but I'm not necessarily the first person. Hey, what's up? But, you know, like, that's not necessarily my ways. So I think what you're experiencing is, is when given an opportunity to share what I love and to share what I know can make a difference, then there's, you know, boom, like it, there's, there's a lot, there's a switch that can come on and it activates. And so when I step on the field, it happens when you step on a podcast. It happens when you put me on a stage, like, if I'm if I'm in a room with people, I'm like, the last person to speak. But you put in on a stage in front of 100 people, 500 people, that's, I'm like, boom, let's go. You know, I'm saying because I think there's a switch. It's almost like, again, getting back to the why power, when I when I found out that this could be a thing that could help people, it's like God has gifted me this. I can't waste it, you know. So, so it's a responsibility that I carry to say, when given the opportunity to present myself here, it's not fake, by the way. It's not a fake, like, it's it's in me, and I want to share it, you know. But the rest of the time, when I'm with my wife, or I'm hanging out, like, I'm pretty low key, I'm pretty I'm pretty chill. But I think that also marks come back to kind of the original, what we where we started everything, it comes back to like, if you're presented with this opportunity to be on the cracking backs podcast, and this is the big box, right? And then Dr Terry says we got Max rook coming in, you know? And I come in and I'm like, and I'm just like, my normal self, there's like my normal self. So so there is a sense that I have to, I have to create my identity, and my identity when these moments are presented is, is there is a certain expectation, and there's a certain level that's needed from me. And again, it's not fake. It's in here. But I don't have to have it all the time, but to make the impact I need to make, I need to bring the level that is required to make sure that the message is received. You know, if that makes sense, so if you ask me, When did I get that is when I realized that I had, when I had a gift and when I had the God given gift that I can't wait so,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:05

so naturally, you're reserved. I think that's, that's a good way to put it reserved. But I mean, take your younger days. I'm just, I just want to know that moment that you go, man, where did that come from, you know, and that you monopolized on it? Yeah, I

Max Rooke: 53:24

don't know. I honestly, I don't know. I don't know if I could answer that for you. I think my wife,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:29

when you play, when you played, though, when you like, let's say when you when you were playing soccer, football, soccer, what was, what did you suddenly? Were you able to turn it on.

Max Rooke: 53:41

Same, same, different person. I'm a different person on the field and different person off the field. When I came on soccer field, like, I'm, like, yelling, screaming, boom, tackle and everything. And they get off the field, and we're in the locker room, and the guys are bantering them back and forth, and, you know, no part of it. But I'm not the one telling the jokes. I don't have any jokes, you know, I'm saying so, so, so it was, it was the same. It was the same when I was a player, too, you know, very reserved off the field, but step on the field, you know, I look at it like this, you know, you know about like, personas, right? And we talk about this sometimes I work with superior, hey, you can have a persona like, you know, this, just, you know, certain, certain athletes they have, you know, like the mum, like Mamba mentality, right? You know, I'm saying with Kobe Bryant, like, there's these certain mantras, right? They become somebody else. So I, I've always carried this, so this might be what you're looking for. Now I'm kind of registering somebody. So we were playing, I was playing long time ago in a championship game, and I remember some in the stands. This is when gladiator was coming on. You remember none of this gladiator but the original Gladiator, right? So, you know, like, they're like Maximus, right? And they're in like, the stadiums like Maximus, Maximus. So that's when that movie was coming out, and will was playing in the championship game. And I remember this, the fans, you know, they were like, Maximus, Maximus, Max and I'm like, Oh, I like that. So, so it's, I feel like, if you were to ask me this difference of like, two people, I think I'm maxed Off, off camera, off the field, and then I'm Maximus, when I step on the field, I'm maximizing to the arena. You know, when I, when I step onto the podcast, I'm Maximus, and then I'll go back to be a max when I need to, but, but when I'm when I'm needed, I'm Maximus.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:33

Fires me up, man. I love it. Thank you. That whole connection with gladiator Mac, I

Unknown: 55:40

just broke out in a sweat. All right, beautiful.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:45

All right, let's move in. Let's move into rapid fire questions, which means your answers need to be rapid fire.

Max Rooke: 55:53

Last time I made him a little bit too long. Sorry, little boss, small boss,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:02

right, Max, here we go. Man Question number one, what's the dumbest or funniest mistake you've ever made? It as a, you know, fresh college, one d1, player coach and what did that screw up teach you about mental performance that no textbook

Max Rooke: 56:23

ever did. Biggest screw up was in practice. Missed a cross cross finish, missed it went by. I was so mad. I kicked the post and I broke my foot, and I was out three or four weeks, and I realized, don't do that again, because then coach gets mad at you, the team's mad at you. You can't play the do the thing you love. Yeah, I was out for about a month because I was in practice. I could pick the post because I was angry. Beautiful.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:52

Question number two, if you had to pick one song, one song to play the pitch to get your players in the right mindset to perform. What song would that be? There's a,

Max Rooke: 57:05

there's there's a, there's a, there's a song. Her name Sigala is the is like the dance, big box, little box, Cigala, and it's came here for love, and it is like, it's all about coming from here, doing stuff from here. Came here for love. And it's a dance tune, and you can do big box, little box to it, top shelf, bomb job to it. Sigala, came here for love.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:30

I'm gonna look that up. Terry, you. I know yours because I've been listening to it in the gym every time. Burn it. Burn it down the ground. Burn it to the ground. Man, I never realized I play that thing every day, every day it's on my, my Spotify playlist, and it just sneaks in there, and I just

Unknown: 57:51

go, Whoa. This is Terry's stuff. Man, all right,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:56

good, good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look up Max's song. Question number three, you obviously coach some pretty serious elite athletes and push them to perform under pressure. What's the what's the stray thought or internal voice you still struggle with in your own life that you'd never admit to learn or to, you know, never admit to your team. But now you'll tell our listeners.

Max Rooke: 58:23

I don't think they're listening to me really. I'm like, I'm I'm doing my thing, and then they start playing. I was like, I don't just don't think they listen to me, because what that? Because basically what they just did, I don't think they're listening to me.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:35

So funny, how fun. Yeah, I tend to, I tend to notice that among certain females, anyway, not you? Karen, yeah, no, no, no, thank you. I'm here for you. Buddy. No, she's she's great at listening. All right. Question number four, if tomorrow someone handed you a blank check to build your dream soccer or performance project with no limits, what would you build? And who's the first person you'd invite in, other than? Dr, Terry, oh, no, your wife. Sorry.

Max Rooke: 59:07

Can I get reference? You said, Is it soccer specific? You said, What do you say?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:10

I'm building us? Yeah. I said, soccer specific. But you know, you can go anywhere with that one. What would I do? Performance a performance project.

Max Rooke: 59:19

A performance project. Well, I would what I'm working on, what I little plug, but what I'm working I want to I want to create space for coaches. I want to build a community of coaches that could come in and can have high level conversations. There's not enough support for high level coaches. So I want to take something and create a space and a community to have high level conversations with coaches that need it. And because of coaching, I would get yoga. Former Liverpool coach. He has to be he has to be there. That guy talk about energy. That guy is full of energy. He's a legend. So I get yoga. O'clock to come and represent and be a part of it, because he will be able to teach everybody a lot. But coaches, coaches need support. Coaches need love. Coaches need need need that a lot. So myself included,

Unknown: 1:00:15

super good,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:16

like minded people you want to be around. What last question, Max, what do you want to be remembered for?

Max Rooke: 1:00:40

I wrote, I said the song came here for love by Sigala, and I say that word love. I love my wife, I love my family, I love all the people that are closest to me I get to do life with. And I really love what I do, and so I think, I think I'm making a difference because of love. And so if I can love people radically, if I can love people kind of meet them where they're at, if I can provide a different perspective all those things that we're talking about today, it comes from a place of love, love for what I do, love for people, love for my family, love for my wife, and so I just want to be remembered as somebody who loved well, but that love can lead to so many wonderful, amazing, extraordinary things. But at the base of it has to be love.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:43

We love you Max. Thanks for being on the show today.

Max Rooke: 1:01:47

Love you guys too. I appreciate it's an honor. Thank you so much.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:53

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Kraken backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.