Anxiety, Burnout, and Success: Why Your Nervous System Is the Real Issue- Ashley Alderette Psy.D

Why are so many high performers quietly falling apart?

They’re disciplined.
They’re successful.
They’re doing everything “right.”

And yet… anxiety, burnout, and emotional instability are rising—especially among high-achieving professionals.

In this episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we sit down with Ashley Alderette, PsyD, to explore a powerful shift in how we understand mental health:

It’s not a mindset problem.
It’s a nervous system regulation problem.

This conversation dives deep into how your nervous system, identity, and emotional regulation shape everything—from decision-making and relationships to performance under pressure.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• Why high performers are experiencing more anxiety, burnout, and identity loss than ever
• The difference between mindset vs nervous system regulation
• How dysregulation changes the way you think, react, and interpret reality
• Why social media hijacks your brain—and why it’s so hard to disengage
• The hidden patterns driving self-sabotage, inconsistency, and overwhelm
• How identity—not discipline—controls long-term behavior
• 3 daily practices to improve emotional control, clarity, and resilience

If you’ve ever felt:

• “I’m doing everything right, but still feel off”
• “I can’t turn my brain off”
• “I look successful, but don’t feel it”

This episode will reframe how you understand your mind—and your performance.

About Dr. Ashley Alderette

Ashley Alderette, PsyD is a licensed clinical psychologist and high-performance coach specializing in emotional regulation, anxiety, burnout, and identity development.

She works with executives, founders, and high-performing individuals who are outwardly successful but internally struggling with stress, disconnection, and pressure.

Dr. Alderette is trained in evidence-based modalities including:

• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
• Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT)
• Exposure Therapy
• EMDR and somatic-based approaches

Her work focuses on helping people move from survival mode to self-mastery—building emotional control, resilience, and clarity under pressure.

Learn More About Dr. Ashley Alderette

 Coaching & Website: HERE

LinkedIn: HERE
Instagram: HERE

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

 Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:01)
Why are some of the most successful, disciplined, and high performing people quietly falling apart? And why is it not a mindset problem, but a nervous system issue? We are going to explore this thought process and more with our amazing guest, Dr. Ashley Alderet. Welcome to the show.

Ashley (00:22)
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:24)
Our pleasure. Our

pleasure. I'm going to start out by asking Ashley, listen, you often say this isn't a mindset problem. It's a regulation problem for some of our listening audience who feels kind of stuck, overwhelmed or inconsistent. What does that actually mean in real life?

Ashley (00:45)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. for if you got, if you're in a good state, ⁓ regulated state, then you're going to have a great mindset. But if you are feeling dysregulated or stressed under pressure, then you're going to have a bad mind state basically. So.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:08)
No, I was going to say, does regulation or regulated state, is that a positive thing? And what does that feel like?

Dr Terry (01:09)
me.

Ashley (01:16)
Okay, okay. you were, Spencer, you were asking about mindset and what most people get wrong about mindset. So I'm here to say that mindset works, but it only works when your nervous system is regulated. So what is our nervous system? What does that mean?

⁓ basically our nervous system is built to keep us to survive and unfortunately not thrive in life. So it is always scanning our environment saying it, am I safe? Is this dangerous or is this life threatening? And so when we are feeling safe, we can have a good mindset, ⁓ in the workplace or as an athlete, we may think like, okay, I've got this, I can do this.

And if we are in a survival mind state or for stress or under pressure, then we're going to be more likely to have negative thoughts such as like, can't do this or I need to give up. So my work includes people below the mindset and working on our state regulation, physiological state.

Dr. Spencer Baron (02:35)
So how does somebody regulate? I mean, it sounds easy, like a light switch, you know, could turn it on, but how do you regulate your mindset when you're freaking out? know, and, and, and, go on, go on.

Ashley (02:49)
Yeah, yeah. So I always teach people that there's three steps to any type of behavior change. The first step is awareness. Am I aware that I am in this survival state versus my thriving state or flow state? ⁓ So what does a survival state look like? That could be when we are feeling super overwhelmed and maybe we're in freeze mode and we don't know where to start for if we're doing our work.

or I work with a lot of lawyers, so ⁓ they are always go, go, go, do, do, do. And on one hand, that actually can be helpful in the survival state, but then that's what leads to burnout. If you're always going and you're never slowing yourself down to be more regulated and rested and relaxed.

Dr Terry (03:43)
I'm actually fascinated. You work with lot of lawyers. What does that mean? Are you talking about lawyers that get nervous in the courtroom and you're trying to help them regulate that or are you talking about helping them with cases?

Ashley (03:54)
Yeah, so good question. So I work with a lot of lawyers that are working like around the clock, like literally 24 seven, they are answering emails till 2am. They're working 12 hours on weekends, seven days a week. ⁓ And so my job is how to teach them the small little skills that they can add to their daily routine and habits and have a better system. So they're less burnt out. ⁓ They can have

they can have more energy or time for their family as well as time for themselves. So that's a piece of it. Yeah.

Dr Terry (04:30)
Wow.

What does that look like? if I'm a lawyer and I'm like, have trials, I am going 24-7, my life is falling apart, because I can see the same attitude with a fireman, first responder. I can see the same attitude with maybe an athlete that's traveling. I can see the same attitude with some teenager or college kid who's on their phone all night and has to get up and do a test. What does that look like?

Dr. Spencer Baron (04:34)
Yeah

Ashley (05:00)
Yeah, absolutely. So I will say a lot of high performers are always in doing mode basically. when, like you're saying, the firemen, the athletes, the students. And so when we're always in doing mode and we're not ever shutting off our mind basically, then it's gonna affect our health so we can get physical health symptoms, mental health symptoms.

⁓ I've had clients that are always like living in a survival state are always stressed out and anxious. And so, you know, that's caused them to drop into depression, for example. ⁓

I'm trying to think of some other examples. Also for athletes, right? This is ⁓ a good one that I can think about, or sorry. For athletes, may practice, right? You may be great at practice, and then when you get to the game, you may freeze up. And so that's like living in survival mode. And so you don't know what to do. So I teach athletes, like, how do you regulate?

Dr Terry (06:08)
Right.

Ashley (06:14)
your nervous system, for example, it could just be as simple as a couple deep breaths in the moment. It can be starting your morning off, right? Because the way that we start our morning off primes our whole entire day. So, oh, go ahead.

Dr Terry (06:32)
No, no, no. What are some of your tips that how do we start your morning off? mean, I mean, that's a great that's a great I don't know how to sometimes start my morning out sometimes I just roll out bed and I just I hit it. So and then I got my partner who gets up at dark 30 and does a run on the beach. You know, so how do you start your your day off? Right.

Ashley (06:45)
you

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll tell you what you should not do to start your day off is go and look at your phone. Because whenever you look at your phone and you've got all these urgent emails, text messages, you are already waking up in a stressed state. And then think about it. When you wake up in that stress state, how is that going to affect your mood? The way that you think about things, the way that you behave, you know, maybe you're going into work and then are you going to...

take that stress out on somebody else, ⁓ or ⁓ you have a big meeting that morning and then it's a high stakes meeting and there's a lot of pressure, you're not gonna do as well if you're walking in already stressed from the morning. Versus if you wake up, you take some deep breaths, you move your body and get the, basically moves the stress and cortisol out of our body in the morning. ⁓

as well as taking a walk outside and getting sunlight in your eyes for 10 minutes is helpful. And then that's going to allow you to show up at the workplace or your sports or school in a different state of mind. So you're going to be thinking differently. You may say, OK, you may go into that meeting and you may do great at the presentation and get that sale. You may go into your test if you're a student and

ace that test. So those are some examples of how your morning can really affect the rest of your day.

Dr. Spencer Baron (08:33)
those that have that first cup of coffee that they need. Not me, but I used to do that. I mean that that can sometimes well you have to wonder if why do you need that cup of coffee and or does that produce anxiety?

Ashley (08:40)
You

Yes. So the research would say that it does because we're already waking up in this ⁓ stressed state. And so then we're drinking caffeine and that's going to increase our cortisol levels versus if you, if you wake up, have a little bit of a slower morning, eat some food. ⁓ They say 30 to 40 grams of protein to really fuel your body for the rest of the day. And then

have some coffee.

Dr. Spencer Baron (09:24)
And then have gone, right? There you go. Yeah. No, no, no, no. I'm with you. I'm with you on that. That's so, but yeah, most people that ⁓ don't even sleep well that they wake up and they're already lethargic and how they're looking to deal with the day when they're already low energy. So is there sleep suggestions that you have for people as well?

Ashley (09:26)
If you like, I'm not going to tell you not to, but...

Dr Terry (09:30)
you

Ashley (09:47)
Thank

Yeah, so it's actually kind of like a vicious cycle because what the research shows is that if you are going all day and your nervous system is dysregulated and you're stressed and you're anxious and you're irritable, then it is going to affect your sleep. And so you're not going to get as good as sleep. You may be waking up in the middle of the night or maybe you have difficulty falling asleep because your mind keeps going and thinking about all the what ifs, the worries or how you could have done things better.

or your to-do list the next day. So I recommend having a good wind down routine that again, doesn't have any electronics involved, ⁓ meditation, again, the deep rest is really helpful. ⁓ So things along those lines.

Dr Terry (10:43)
Did I hear you say wine? I thought okay at night have wine so and then have my coffee in the morning I'm fucking good! ⁓

Dr. Spencer Baron (10:45)
No, no, she's whined. I thought she said, what have a what I swear.

Ashley (10:56)
No.

Dr. Spencer Baron (10:57)
I swear I thought that too.

She said wine? No, wine down. Down a wine. There you go. ⁓ yeah.

Ashley (11:02)
you

I'm just teaching all the great health things here, you know? Coffee,

Dr Terry (11:11)
Yeah, you

Floridians, you us Californians, we're all right, wine at night and coffee in the morning. I'm good.

Ashley (11:12)
wine.

Dr. Spencer Baron (11:18)
There it is. There it is. ⁓ all right. you got, you know, it's again, it sounds great when you say it, but I am certain that you have these clients that come in or patients that they just can't turn that that off. And you got to do a deep dive in helping them. What are think of someone difficult that.

Ashley (11:20)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (11:44)
You know, their identity is tied to the anxiety and the stress. How do you shift that consciousness?

Ashley (11:44)
you

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I will...

Well, I will say that I work with a lot of very smart people. And so what I see a lot of times is that we are, we are, lot of people are stuck in our minds and our, in our heads. And so we're always thinking with our thoughts. ⁓ and so that's hard to shut shut off. So what I say is if you're, if you're overthinking, then you're under feeling. So what I would do with my clients is teach them, Hey, instead of thinking about all these

What is, how can I do better? I'm behind. need to work harder, faster, things like that. Let's just tune into our body. What body sensation do you notice? And you know, what, what is it that you need based on that body sensation? For example, if I, if my client says I have a, ⁓ I noticed tension, tightness in my chest, shallow breathing, I'd say, okay, let's take some, let's slow down.

Let's orient ourselves just to the room. So really just kind of feeling your feet on the ground and then looking around the room for something pleasant to land your eyes on. And then just taking a couple slow deep breaths can really be helpful for people. So.

Dr Terry (13:18)
So I got another one on the flip side of that. mean, I want to come back to this, but on the flip side of that, you have these people that are almost depressed. You said get away from the phone, but they can be happy. And then they get on the phone, especially some women, some guys, and they see this negative thing about them. And they go into a state of depression. And now they can't get up.

Dr. Spencer Baron (13:19)
So you get them, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Dr Terry (13:43)
you know, is that the same type of thing as the anxiety? I mean, you get these people that get stuck in this anxiety loop and this depression loop. What's your thoughts on that?

Ashley (13:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's a little different. The types of dysregulation are going to be fight or flight. So that's where the anxiety comes in. That's where the irritability comes in, maybe like lashing out at your partner. ⁓ But that can also be helpful again for the go-go-go culture and hustle culture. Then you've got the free state. So that free state is like your

you're super overwhelmed and you just don't know what to do. And this looks like you're redoing your to-do list over and over again. You're not actually getting work done. Maybe you're busy, but not productive basically. And then what you're talking about Dr. Terry is the shutdown mode. So that's like whenever you're depressed and you don't want to get out of bed. ⁓ So that can definitely be a tough situation and that's.

Definitely where a lot of the clients come to see me as well. And I really like to, I teach a skill called opposite action. And so basically that is when you're depressed, you want to lay in bed and thinking about how can we break down the next action into a small, tiny goal to get out of bed, for example. So maybe I have to go to work and I'm depressed.

Let's not even think about going to work. Let's just think about getting out of bed and putting our feet on the floor. And then let's think about getting to the bathroom and brushing our teeth. so breaking those things down into more small tolerable steps can help people get out of that depression mode. Now here's the thing. People go into that shutdown mode, but in order to get to the safety mode or like the

the flow state, a lot of business people call it, where we can connect and be excited and happy and passionate about life. You have to go through that fight or flight mode. So what I see with a lot of my clients is they, get them out of that depression mode, but then they're like, my gosh, Ashley, like I'm not the type of person that lashes out of my partner. last night I just like lash out of my partner. So I like to validate like, it's okay. You know, that's you coming out of the.

the shutdown mode or the freeze mode. And now let's work on communication skills so that when you're in that state, or flight, you can have a more effective conversation with your partner. And then people go to the safety or flow state. So then you can connect, you can excel at work, you can make more clear decisions, better, and just have a better mindset all around.

Dr. Spencer Baron (16:41)
What are you telling them? I love the idea of that focus on the moment. I'm putting my feet, you know, taking my feet off the bed onto the floor. I'm walking to the bathroom to go pee or do whatever you need to do next. But ⁓ I like how you break it down and try to shift them away from the turmoil. But when you said that.

they move to the next phase, know, and they're panicked and having ⁓ anxiousness and telling, you know, snapping at their partner or employees or whoever it is. What are you telling them to tell themselves or to catch that? Because sometimes it just, they get this like neural hijacking where they just, you know, they, you know, what do you say to curb that instant moment?

Ashley (17:36)
Yeah, definitely. So, well, first of all, I like to validate people that fight, flight, freeze the shutdown. It's all a self-protective mechanism. So it makes sense that that happens, first of all. And then second of all, just noticing in the moment, are the warning signs that you're about to snap at somebody and then we would want to intervene there. So.

You know, usually before you snap at somebody, for example, you might notice your, your face is getting flushed. You might notice like your hands are ⁓ clenching. And so then how can we change our body position to have a more open body position? For example, how can I, then I'll teach other skills. How can I take a, ⁓ like use the stop skills, stop in the moment and just take a couple of deep breaths before I respond to somebody.

for example.

Dr. Spencer Baron (18:36)
Do you find that people are, well, obviously lack of sleep is a big driver to anxiety and losing control. Do you identify that first or what the cause of those moments of angst are stemming from? Maybe drinking too much coffee or, mean, you go through all those different, while you're trying to,

you know, do ⁓ a consult in history with them. What kind of questions are you asking?

Ashley (19:12)
Yeah, ⁓ let me think.

Dr Terry (19:18)
Don't be bagging on my coffee by the way.

God damn it, don't be bagging on my coffee.

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:25)
right, but before you

drop some amphetamine, how's that? ⁓

Dr Terry (19:32)
That's fair. Thank you.

Ashley (19:32)
you

well, I think, I think like in my consultations, people are, I'm not seeing people come to me and saying, Hey, Ash, like I have a dysregulated nervous system. I need your help. It's more of like, Hey, Ash, I am, I'm, I'm noticing that I'm going out on the weekends and I'm, I'm binge drinking or I'm wanting to step out of my marriage or I'm wanting to, ⁓

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:46)
Yeah

Ashley (20:06)
or I'm just feeling exhausted and I don't wanna do anything anymore. So those are kind of the reasons why people may come to me or actually the sleep is people come to me because they can't sleep as well. And so then the questions I would ask are kind of what you were saying, Dr. Spencer, what does your sleep look like? Because as we know, that is the number one most important thing that we can do for ourselves. And I think...

They say like sleep is a silent killer because we don't notice it in the short term, but then in the long term, it creates all these mental and physical health problems. Short term as well, but long term too. Go ahead.

Dr Terry (20:51)
I want you to continue, but can you also elaborate what dysregulation actually means?

Ashley (20:55)
Yes. So dysregulation, basically it means that we're living in a state of survival, which I also want to say it's helpful, it's important, and we need to be able to access those survival states. And we do it every single day. For example, if I am walking down a dark alley and I hear a noise, I need to be able to go into that fight or flight mode so I can fight somebody off.

or I'm trying to think of animals. This theory is based on animal behavior because ⁓ Peter Levine wanted to know why do animals, their lives are threatened every single day, but they don't have what we, like traumas. They just get up, they shake it off, and then they keep going. Or animals may, they may play dead.

and freeze and that's how they protect themselves. So all of these states are basically our survival states. So what does it look like though? It looks like at work maybe you have a lot of pressure at work. You're the owner of the company and so everybody's coming to you and you've got to take care of all your employees. You've got to take care of your family.

And then you don't have a place to really, an outlet to take care of yourself. Maybe you're not getting sleep. Maybe you're not moving your body. You don't have anyone to talk to. And so you're, you're not making decisions effectively. If you're not sleeping and fueling your body and eating right, then you're not going to be able to focus or, ⁓ make clear decisions.

Dr. Spencer Baron (22:46)
How do you deal with someone who...

Identity drives behavior. But how would you talk someone who has identified with a certain character, change that? I mean, they've been that way for so long, that they think that they should be better at this or that they're terrible at this. How do you get through that struggle?

Ashley (23:17)
Yeah, yeah. So I like to say this saying, is, if you can change your state, ⁓ you can change your story, your narrative about life, and then you can change your identity. So basically, whatever state you're living in, that's going to affect who you believe that you are. For example, ⁓ my, I know some people that have

have said like, you know, I'm just a survivor in life. And I heard that and honestly, I used to think that too, like I could survive anything. But then one day I was like, you know what, I was always working and like not really, I didn't have a good work-life balance, for example. And I was like, you know what, I want to thrive in life. And so I heard about this work and ⁓ it helps you just to kind of feel more alive and ⁓ experience more of life.

It did change my identity too. Instead of I'm a survivor, I'm... Well, I have a lot of...

beliefs, but like I'm living my best life basically. So an example may be if you're always living in pressure, you may say, I'm just someone who's always busy. ⁓ So that could be your identity. So how would I help someone with that? Well, I'm trying to think of a better example of like a core belief that is keeping people stuck.

Dr. Spencer Baron (24:59)
core belief could be someone who ⁓ believes their, let's say, let's take relationships, for example, maybe that they're just not romantic enough, or they are so work oriented. ⁓ And that's what's important is making money or what have you. I mean, obviously for some of the attorneys or high achievers. ⁓ Or,

or someone who is maybe ⁓ a trial attorney that has always done well in life ⁓ or that generation that they get a trophy just for participating, so they think they're a winner, but then they lose a case, because now they've grown up and the real world says, all right, you screwed up. ⁓ Your client is guilty. What?

How do you help them through that struggle?

Ashley (26:01)
Yeah. ⁓ okay. Well, you, you mentioned a lot, but how would I, I'll stick with last one. So how would I, if the, if the attorney has this core belief, cause they're, they just lost a case, like I'm not good enough or not worthy. And that basically it would have to be, if it happened just one time, they probably wouldn't have that mindset. But if it happens multiple times and it's, it's a repeated thing where they're losing.

then that's gonna form their identity. Like I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough. And so we would first go back to the state that they're living in. Are they sleeping? Are they eating? Are they slowing down? like taking deep breaths is just a good one in general. ⁓ So that's changing their state.

And then once you change your state, then you can change your story. So the story is, I'm not worthy. Once you're, if when you're in a, positive state, then you can have a more positive mindset. So we can shift that I'm not worthy mindset to, I can lose a case and still be worthy. And then if when they're repeatedly taking care of their, their state and changing their narrative about how they see a loss.

then that's gonna become their identity over time. So it's who you are basically on a consistent, regular basis.

Dr Terry (27:38)
You know, I heard something the other night and in you being Florida, you may not hear this as much, but I heard this the other night and it was from a owner of a company and he was like, we're still stuck in COVID. And I go, what does that mean? He goes, we're now trying to get employees to come back to work and we're getting such a huge pushback. They just want to stay home. They don't want to come back to work. They don't, they, want to come in one day, one day a month and they

they've gotten stuck in this, they only want to work 20 hours, but they want to be paid as if they're making 80 hours a week. And then you're getting, and then you hear the other side and people got in this rut of some call it lazy, some call it just a change of mindset. And how long does it take to get out of these habits? I I thought, I think some of this COVID shutting people down was very detrimental to their health, mental as more than physical. How do we get?

If I'm still hearing this two days ago from HR and this of companies going, nobody wants to work anymore. They just want to stay home. Have you seen that? And as a therapist, what's some advice you can give to both sides of the fence?

Ashley (28:55)
man. ⁓ So I would say that that's a tough question. I always like to say in order to change a behavior, takes, well, number one, takes willingness to change a behavior. So I guess for the companies, it's what would be the consequences for people to come back? And then

I'm not really okay. I'm not really sure how to answer that in a nervous system way.

Dr Terry (29:28)
But

isn't it all right, let's just say some of these people got stuck in the pattern. You can look at it that way. So is it going to take the person that's at home and got used to being at home and oh my gosh, I'm in this pattern, but I know it's not right, but it sounds easy. I think our bodies always the default is the easy way out.

So how do we change their pattern? I know this may not be your topic, but it was just something that came up that I've been pondering in my head going, this is becoming a big deal. And from your intellectual standpoint, what's some thoughts you have on this? we got into the pattern. How do we see ourselves getting out back into a healthier pattern?

Ashley (30:04)
Yeah.

Yeah. I would say in order to change somebody else's behavior, we would want to lean into reinforcement, positive and negative reinforcement. So what can, what can the company provide? Like what incentives for that can they provide for people to come back into the office or positive incentives always work better than negative consequences, but

that's another option as well. I've seen companies saying like, if you don't come back, then you're just fired. ⁓ But I would say mindset, in terms of like mindset, right? ⁓ If you're in a fixed mindset, the employees and like, I can't go back to work, for example. So they would want to, in order to get to a flexible mindset, you would want to basically kind of,

It all goes back to like the sleeping and the eating and the moving your body to get into a regulated state. And then you're going to be more open to going back to work. Does that make sense?

Yeah, so I guess that's how you could tie it. Yeah.

Dr Terry (31:38)
So I

mean, you've got clients like the lawyers that go 24 seven. And then you've got this people say nobody wants to work anymore. And I don't think that's true. You know, but that but that people from you know, either Dr. Spencer and I have had that conversation ago, feel like nobody wants to work anymore. And then you got the people that are working too much. That sounds like a nervous scene. It's almost like depression versus anxiety. mean, so you know,

Do you believe that people are lazy and got lazy or do you think they just have a different mindset than we're used to and we're trying to compare our lives with them?

Ashley (32:16)
Yeah. Well, I always like to say that lazy is a judgment. what does like, you know, then what does lazy even look like and mean? And then it would be like, why is it so important for that person to stay at home? Maybe it's a, it's a mom and she wants to be present for her kids and she's doing her work. ⁓ So, but honestly, are any of us going to have to work soon with this AI stuff coming out?

Dr Terry (32:43)
Right?

Ashley (32:46)
Then the people who do like to work and live in the hustle culture, they're really in trouble.

Dr Terry (32:50)
Right. All right. You brought that up. I mean, as a as a therapist who deals with this, how do you combat people going, well, I'm not going to come and see you. I'd rather just go chat GPT.

Ashley (33:03)
Yeah. So I think chat GPT is a great, like it's as great as the knowledge that it has. Um, and it doesn't give, always give you the correct facts, but I think it's a great, like ancillary service. My clients, may like look up some stuff and then bring it into therapy and we can process it. But as far as I know, um, chat GPT or AI doesn't have a nervous system and that is what heals people. my like,

calm nervous system, for example, is what heals, can heal my clients who have a dysregulated nervous system chronically.

Dr. Spencer Baron (33:40)
So just being, you mean like being in your presence, they'll tend to follow your lead and being relaxed and more at ease. That's, yeah, that's true too. ⁓ Go ahead, Terry. Nope, you go.

Ashley (33:43)
Yes.

Yeah. Which, that's, ⁓ go ahead.

So yeah, like the energies and the nervous system regulation, dysregulation, it is, ⁓ you can notice if you're with somebody and then all of a sudden, if they're an anxious person, you start getting anxious. So we pick up on other people's nervous systems versus, you know, Dr. Spencer, when I first talked to you on the phone, you had this great calming voice and I was like, ⁓ this is going to be a great call.

Yeah! ⁓ Fair, fair enough.

Dr. Spencer Baron (34:24)
Thanks. It depends on what time of the day we're talking. ⁓ yeah. Well,

thank you. Yeah, that is true. mean, and actually, it's only been recent that some friends of mine have discussed what it's like, or actually patients of mine have discussed what it's like removing certain people from their life because they finally realize

that their angst is carrying over into their world and they have to lose them as a friend because it's not comforting. Do you ever suggest things like that? Is to take a look at the people around you because they may be influencing your behavior.

Ashley (35:11)
Absolutely. The people, your environment. I always tell clients, know, check in with yourself. How do you feel when you hang out with that person? ⁓ Like body sensation wise, how do you feel afterwards? Do you feel depleted? Do you feel energized? ⁓ Those are all very important things because again, this it's it does affect. What's the word?

It affects, if we're hanging out with people that are always dysregulated, then it's going to affect the way that we think, we behave, ⁓ we relate to the world and ourselves.

Dr. Spencer Baron (35:57)
Terry, we're gonna lead in with some social media toxicity.

Dr Terry (36:03)
That's like my hot topic. just think that there's so much toxic stuff and I literally had a patient go, my daughter was doing so good and she had posted a picture of herself and which I thought was beautiful and then she gets this negative comment and it ruined her for the day and goes, and there's a dad I went, you don't even know this person, why do you care?

Dr. Spencer Baron (36:06)
I know.

Yeah.

Dr Terry (36:27)
And so I'm seeing so much, you know, what was, what was your, what was your life as a therapist pre or like your thoughts pre-socimia and then how do you, how do you navigate that? Even as an adult, we don't like to get bad news. And now you've got these keyboard warriors. They're just like can stand behind their screen and just say, you're an idiot, but they won't say it to your face, you know, but how do you navigate that?

Ashley (36:55)
You know what? I think if you have haters, you're doing something right. And if you don't have haters and you're probably not living your life, that's how you navigate that one. So, you know, the best advice I got was, ⁓ one of my mentors told me, he said, Ashley, listen, you're great. You have a great energy about you, but guess what? You will not be everybody's cup of tea. And that's okay because the people who you are their cup of tea.

Dr Terry (36:59)
Yes. I love that.

Dr. Spencer Baron (37:02)
Nice.

Yeah.

Ashley (37:24)
those are going to be your ride or die people. So, you know, the people that don't like you're just kind of weeding themselves out and it's their loss.

Dr Terry (37:32)
I love that.

Dr. Spencer Baron (37:32)
Hmm.

Ashley (37:33)
you

Dr. Spencer Baron (37:34)
Yeah, no, that's cool.

you know, so then I question how social media identifies your algorithms. And can it really be all that bad if, you know, for me, my ridiculous algorithms is either, you know, about dogs or romance, positive romance, motivation, you know, things like that. So like, I'll go to bed and scroll a little bit and I go to bed maybe a bit.

Ashley (37:51)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (38:02)
you know, excited or happy or connected. It's those people that I guess scroll and thrive on drama and trauma. Right. I mean, you? Well, that's why I don't know if all social media is that bad. mean, you know, strike me with lightning for saying that. But, you know, I don't know if that's.

Ashley (38:02)
you

Yeah. Yeah.

you

Dr Terry (38:21)
I

mean, it's a source of knowledge and a of despair, you know?

Ashley (38:26)
It's definitely, it has its pros and cons, right? Because yeah, like there's so many things that you can learn if you're following the right things. And also it depends on your state. If you're going to social media, you're already in a positive mindset and a positive state. know, you're going to basically you see the world differently depending on what state you're in. So you may see the same exact photo or message on Instagram, but if you're in your safety state versus a

survival state, you're going to think about it differently. So maybe like, yeah, you see this relationship and then you're like, that's so wonderful and beautiful and happy. And then you fall asleep versus let's say you're in like fight or flight mode. And like, you, you know, you're like, God, I'm just so sick of seeing all these people that are happy together. And like, if you're single, for example, so that's the piece.

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:17)
Right.

Dr Terry (39:20)
Or you have your spouse going, Johnny is nicer his wife taking her to all these places. Why won't you do that to me?

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:21)
That's so true.

Ashley (39:26)
Yes. Yes.

So that's the big thing, the comparison, right? It's like when you go on social media, it is a constant threat to our system for comparison. It's like, well, I'm not doing good enough in my career or, you know, I'm not as high status or my body doesn't look as good as that person. And so I think it's, it's about checking in with yourself and knowing how is

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:32)
Yeah.

Ashley (39:53)
how is my social media content affecting, helping me or not helping me? And then you could kind of go from there.

Dr. Spencer Baron (40:02)
Gosh, you know, I was just thinking is that in the gym in one of the gyms I train at in the morning, there's on the big screen or they play old like MTV rap rapper videos and all of them have like stacks of money, gold chains. But what people don't realize is they they'll rent the location, the mansion that they're they're filming out of or they'll or rent the Rolls Royce that they're driving down.

So it gives such a false image to the rest of the population. So it's not just social media, but it was back in the MTV days, probably before Ashley was born. anyway, but back, back in those days, I think it's when it started. So I'm trying to defend social media to some degree, because I think that was like, you know, even on TV, regular TV, when we would watch things like that. So, yes, so not on not all social media is toxic, I guess, but it can be.

Ashley (40:41)
you

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (41:02)
And we're hearing more about it now more than ever before. But hey, Ashley, let me ask you, let's take a particular patient that you could think of right now or client, if you want to call it that. And maybe your most difficult one or challenging one. How do you they come in, maybe give us a sketch of what?

they complained about and how do you take them, how do you start taking them through this metamorphosis?

Ashley (41:35)
Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I don't know why, but this one patient comes to mind and it kind of goes back to the identity piece. ⁓ You know, she, she came to me because she was extremely anxious, always having panic attacks and ⁓ transitions were really hard for her. And through our work together, we've, I've, I've taught her a lot of skills.

⁓ she used to never take risks. She always used to stay in her little safety bubble. And throughout our time together, she actually, now that, now that she has the skills, she actually ended up quitting her job. This is huge for her. She would have never thought this. She ended up quitting her job and starting her own company because of the, the work that we did with.

the nervous system and identity and the identity piece. And basically I like to tell people like, you know, you, if you want to step into a new identity, you have to first behave and kind of fake it till you make it and, give your nervous system a new experience because your nervous system is going to keep you safe. It's not, it's not built to help you thrive. So that's exactly what she did. She started taking all the behavioral steps.

And now she finally has this identity like I'm someone who thrives in transitions and who thrives whenever things are uncertain versus ⁓ her old identity, which is I'm someone who cannot do change, who needs certainty and control. ⁓

Dr. Spencer Baron (43:22)
Okay, but that's her. What did you say to her? What were some of the things that you would say to someone or her? Let's take her for example. Yeah, I mean, that's hard. Most people don't realize to... ⁓

Ashley (43:27)
Thank

Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (43:41)
morph into someone that they want to be when they've been one way for so long or told by someone that they admired or cared for that they ain't shit, things like that. What you say to them?

Ashley (43:52)
Yeah.

How do I help people? ⁓ man, so I think there's a couple things. So the first thing is it all really goes back to lifestyle. I first always work with my clients on lifestyle because if you are showing up to the therapy sessions in a survival state, for example, there's not a lot of work we can do. So I like to train my clients to...

work on their sleep, at least move their body, at least at the beginning of the session, we may just orient ourselves to like going back to our feet on the ground, ⁓ landing on a pleasant ⁓ item in our room or outside or whatever it may be. So the first thing we would do in a session is make sure that we are starting it from a regulated safe state so that they can connect, so that we can connect.

basically. Does that that make sense? That's the first piece.

Dr. Spencer Baron (44:57)
Oh yeah, yeah. So

you build the ground floor by the little things that they, how they present. What if someone's late to your session chronically and they go, yeah, and they give you some excuse.

Ashley (45:14)
Yeah, that definitely happens. And I would want to think is an ass like, know, I wonder, is this a problem that happens outside of our sessions? And it usually it is. And they again, they'll probably come to that session and they'll, they'll, they'll, ⁓ they'll be like, my gosh, I'm so sorry. And like all frantic and stuff. So what I first do again is we got to read, we got to get into that safety state. So, okay. You know what? It's okay.

Let's just take a couple deep breaths and then get ourselves regulated. And then we'll talk through what's, what's really going on. And typically if they're always go, go, go, and they're, they're late, we will, we'll talk about what that, what that feels like, how it is for them. Do they want to change that? ⁓ and it, it usually, usually they do. It's not, it's not too pleasant. ⁓ being in that.

state, but sometimes there's benefits too, right? We live in a fast-paced society and we have to just squeeze everything in. ⁓ But teaching people how to slow down is a big piece. And a lot of times, if you're living in this chronic state of go, go, go, it doesn't feel safe to slow down. So when we try to slow down, we feel guilty. ⁓ It's hard to rest. ⁓ So we would have to explore.

you know, where is that coming from? decouple the idea that slowing down means that you're not safe.

Dr. Spencer Baron (46:52)
You know, that's why I've heard friends or patients of mine that they'll go on vacation in, you know, some quiet neck of the woods. And man, it takes like a couple of days to get used to moving out of the, being out of the city and the fast pace. And it's it it takes a while to dysregulate, I guess. Right. And to regulate to a more calming environment because they're not used to that. All right. I got to find out. So the lady that that

Ashley (47:13)
Yeah.

You

Dr. Spencer Baron (47:21)
Because

it's so easy to say, know, I'm going to quit my job. No, it's not easy. It's easy to say, I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to I'm going to start my own company. What in the world? And obviously, it's not one session that you're to tell someone and then they're going to be attracted to doing all this at one. How did you coach her to do that?

Ashley (47:27)
Hahaha

So it's, like to say it's kind of like going to the gym. And this is what I like to tell clients too, because you're right. It's not, you're not going to be healed in one session. This did the, these patterns didn't occur in one overnight. So we can't change everything in one night. So basically when you go to the gym, you know, you do your reps and you know, you may go for a day or a week and you don't see any muscle definition or any change. it could kind of, it can be hard.

Dr. Spencer Baron (47:55)
Yeah.

Ashley (48:13)
But then like three months after going to the gym and you're doing all the reps and you're showing up consistently, then one day somebody may say, Hey, Ash, your arms are looking pretty strong there. Have you been working out? And I'm like, how the heck? Yeah, I've been working out. Thanks. And that's the same thing with the nervous system regulation. You have to do the neural neural reps and build basically habits. comes down to your daily habits. So every day, for example, this

This girl, did 3D breaths when she woke up and she started exercise. She also started moving her body and exercising most mornings and just those two things. And then she was also mindful of her sleep and sleep and eating as well. But ⁓ those things then helped her be able to reduce her anxiety baseline. So she wasn't always in a chronic state of anxiety.

And when she did go into that state, she had the skills to bring herself back down to baseline and feel safe in uncertainty or scary situations.

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:27)
In actuality, I think what you also did was allow her to realize that little successes along the way and build on that and see you're doing this. See, you're good. Like taking baby steps to the big step of quitting and starting your own business. my God. Yeah.

Ashley (49:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm

so proud of her. That's huge for her.

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:51)
Yeah.

Dr Terry (49:54)
I got I got to ask one thing you mentioned that you get them if they come in late or anxious and their first step is to get them to calm down like like it's something pleasant in the room realize that what's the next step after they calm down?

Ashley (50:08)
Yeah, then we would just, the idea is to get curious. So exploring if they're chronically late, ⁓ exploring is this all the time thing? Does it happen outside of the sessions all the time? And if it does, then we can kind of explore that. And if it's only happening in my sessions that they're chronically late, then that would tell me that, maybe there's a rupture in our relationship.

maybe, you I would think back to the last session, for example, like did, and I would call it out too, because I work with a lot of people pleasers, which is also a safety state fawning. And so I invite people to, to tell me that, that they're upset with me and work through it in our sessions. And then that way that can also be helpful outside the sessions in their relationships, for example.

Dr. Spencer Baron (51:09)
you're basically making people look in the mirror and sometimes that's scary for them. And I would imagine if they start to become late or cancel appointments, it's because they're, do you notice that? Or is that like a possible reason that they are just not ready or not able to look in the mirror that you show them?

Ashley (51:33)
Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. So I always, I always, try to invite them to express how they're feeling towards me. And I would, ⁓ I sometimes it takes a little more time for them to feel safe with me before they can say, Hey, Ash, yeah, you said X, Y, and Z. And this is how I interpreted it. And I was not happy with you.

Dr. Spencer Baron (51:57)
Has that actually happened?

Ashley (52:00)
I've had clients be upset with me for sure, but you know what? Those are actually the clients that at the end of our work together, I was like sad that like they were leaving it. We had the best relationships after we worked through the rupture. Cause you know what they say? It conflict can be intimacy enhancing if you can repair the relationship in an effective way. And so that's part of my job is giving people a new

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:16)
That's great.

Ashley (52:28)
giving their nervous system a new experience so they can build the capacity to have hard conversations with people and then have the lives that they want.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:41)
Nice. Terry, what do you think, rapid fire?

Dr Terry (52:45)
Oh, I can't wait to see her. She's going to get the big guns out from her arms and she's going to be like, you know, she's going be ripping it.

Ashley (52:46)
Where the hell we go?

⁓ man.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:57)
All right, Ashley, this is the part

of the show. This is the part of the show that, yeah, she is wearing a ⁓ short sleeve shirt. You guys are gonna go ahead and.

Dr Terry (53:04)
Yeah, but we're gonna, this is a surprise show, we dysregulate you.

Ashley (53:08)
⁓ man!

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:11)
So we got five questions. The whole idea of rapid fire is to answer quick and brief if you can. ⁓ And if you're ready, question number one. Are you ready, Ashley? All right. So this is an interesting one. Is confidence, is it built or is it regulated? In other words, do you build that confidence or is it something that

Ashley (53:17)
Yeah.

Great. I'm ready. Let's hear it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:40)
that is ⁓ they already have, but it's clouded by a misunderstanding of themselves.

Ashley (53:47)
Yeah, so I actually love that question because I feel like people think that they need to be confident before they can go to the gym and start exercising or working out or before they can step into an identity. But really confidence comes once you do a habit, once you go to the gym over and over and over and over again, then you can become confident that, ⁓ you know, you're an athlete or whatever it may be. So I think that behavior and action

over and over again repeatedly builds confidence.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:21)
Good, question number two. This is an about Ashley question. You're ready, doctor? You spent obviously ⁓ so much of time helping people regulate chaos. So off the clock, what's something you do purely for you that has nothing to do with optimizing, improving, or working on yourself? ⁓

Ashley (54:27)
⁓ boy.

Yeah.

⁓

man. So, ⁓ my family and I, we actually, it's happening this weekend. We are doing a Spartan race together. And so every year we do it, we do it to like relate and we're a little competitive of a family though. So I don't know. We're gonna. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:55)
Ha ha ha ha.

Nice. That is great.

Dr Terry (55:05)
Well, I got ask

sprint, super, or beast?

Ashley (55:08)
So this one, don't even know which one this one is, but I think this year we're gonna do all of them. So I'm gonna, yeah, yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.

Dr Terry (55:16)
So you're gonna do a trifecta weekend? That's pretty cool. That's cool.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:16)
Holy

Damn, Ashley's a beast, man. I didn't know that. All right. All right. I better be

nice. You might kick my ass. right. Question, question number three. Are we, and this is one Dr. Terry and I talk about with some of the generations of recent generations. Are we creating mentally weaker humans through all this comfort and convenience?

Ashley (55:30)
You

Oh man, I got to play the fourth on that one. This is rapid fire. You know, I think that what I see happen is that parents, they try to protect their kids from the world because they're anxious and they don't want to see their kids in pain. But what happens is if kids don't...

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:48)
Fess up, come on.

Ashley (56:10)
have tough experiences when they're kids and they go off to college and then they become adults and they don't know what to do and then they're really in trouble and that's when you get the a lot of mental health symptoms as well because they feel so defeated because their parents always rescued them before. So I do think that going through your challenges when you're younger, you build resiliency for whenever you're older, an adult. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (56:37)
Love it. Dr.

Tarrion, I always talk about the participation trophy that kids get these days. Come on. All right. You're going to love this question. Question number four, if we followed you, if we followed you around for a completely unfiltered day, what's something people would be surprised to learn about you that doesn't match the psychologist helping a high performer's image?

Ashley (56:42)
⁓ man. Yeah.

yeah, you're good.

what's something that doesn't matter?

Dr. Spencer Baron (57:06)
You better tell the truth

because I know Robbie. Robbie's who told me about you.

Ashley (57:11)
my god, yeah, what doesn't match? That's interesting because I am such a, I'm such a like organized structured planner. ⁓ So what doesn't match? What's my guilty pleasure? How about that? ⁓

Dr. Spencer Baron (57:30)
There you go.

Ashley (57:34)
I don't know. think that is so tough. really don't. I should have all these things, shouldn't I? I think honestly, at times I can work too much and burn myself out. And that's not, and then when I noticed that I got to practice what I preach and get myself back in check. How about that? Yeah. Okay. Yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron (57:54)
Fair enough, yes, yes. Okay, last question. Are you ready? All

right. What's one thing that every human, young and old, should do daily to have a better life?

Ashley (58:10)
daily. I got to say gratitude journaling has like changed my life. So every single morning, yeah, I write three things that I'm grateful for. I write my three intentions for the day. And I write who I want to be that day. And ⁓ it just it primes your mind and sets you up for success. So

Dr. Spencer Baron (58:17)
Very nice.

All right, are the three things you were grateful for today?

Ashley (58:37)
You know, I, I wrote down, was grateful to be on this podcast and very excited to be on the podcast. Um, I, I have a group that I go to at the tower club and it's all business professionals and we've got an event tonight. So I've just, I'm so grateful to have such wonderful people in my life that are always like motivating me and supporting me. And, um, really we, we do it together. So that's, that's really enjoyable as well. then.

I love that I live so close to the beach so I can walk there. Yeah, in the morning and see the sunrise. So yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (59:12)
Yeah! ⁓

How great. Great way to end. Thank you. I appreciate you very much, Ashley, for being on the show today. Thank you.

Ashley (59:21)
Yeah.

Yeah,

thank you all for having me. It was a pleasure.

Dr Terry (59:31)
is awesome.