When Sh!# Hits the Fan – Medical Emergencies, Lawsuits, and Liability

We all think it will never happen to us, and then it does. Dr. Kuba shares her drama of the week which involved a letter from a lawyer involving an injury sustained in her office. Together, she and Bethany discuss the specific details of the incident that occurred in her office and the things her team did to manage the crisis. They also discuss various ways to be prepared for medical emergencies, lawsuits, and other unexpected crises that can hit any practice. Get your notebooks ready because there are several practical takeaways in this episode!

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

• Anniversary Episode 
• Featuring YOUR Voices

Don't forget to check out our social media for more
Managing Dental Drama FB
Managing Dental Drama IG
Managing Dental Drama Membership Club Sign Up

Wait! There's More!
We want to hear YOUR voice!
Text a 2-minute voice memo to 214.326.4605 with your questions, comments, real-life example, or tips for a chance to have YOUR voice on the air!

Transcript

0:01

are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real Dental drama if so then

0:09

you've come to the right place join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr Reena Kuba as

0:15

we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while

0:20

managing Dental drama let's get started well hello we're

0:25

back in the closet I feel like I haven't been here in a little bit I know it's been a little bit you've had a lot going

0:31

on though I've had a lot going on man uh drama drama drama drama doesn't end it

0:37

ends it does not end okay so what drama do you have today what drama do I not have today um is probably the better

0:44

question but um I knew I would be coming to the closet today and I was like okay I don't have 5 hours here to like bore

0:50

everybody with every last Nuance of the Foolery in my life so let me pick one so

0:57

the one I wanted to pick for today um and the reason I pick this one is because in my 12ish years as a practice

1:05

owner I've not dealt with this before right um and then before that as an

1:12

associate um I hadn't dealt with it before either so this was a new one for me um and um anyway

1:21

so I I'm going to kind of start backwards and like start with what

1:27

happened the other day Okay and then work our way through because I think there's a lot of things that come up in

1:33

this particular incident issue whatever you want to call it that I do think listeners um could know yeah I think you

1:41

know I mean again like the phrase that I always hate we're all in this together we're all Chumps together trying to run our practices and you know it's always

1:48

what what has it been more lately here has been the whole staffing issues and crazy parent issues or patient issues

1:55

whatever like just demanding patients and supply chain issues and the cost of everything so it's like that's all just

2:01

normal our normal world and then this little asteroid kind of hit me from the side and I wasn't really expecting it

2:08

and so um you know I think all of these situations are probably unique unto themselves but still like if if I can

2:14

impart any pearls onto somebody else to go oh wait what would I do in this

2:20

situation in my particular office if anything like this happened in my office I know it's not a unique thing to happen

2:25

but it's just not happened to me um and so if could help somebody else to go

2:31

okay like maybe just planting seeds yeah what can we learn from this scenario what can we learn and or if anybody has

2:37

any advice like or if it's happened to you you know if you have other advice so uh I'm looking at this and we received

2:43

this on Wednesday at 434 p.m. so I had just left the office I'm looking at my

2:49

text here I left the office got home and um you know shortly thereafter my office

2:55

manager texts you and I yes okay so um here's the the letter we got the the

3:02

photo of the letter she sent and it is from a blah blah blah attorney and

3:07

counselor at law and just already you're you're just your belly sinks yes so I'm thinking it's a board complaint like

3:13

that's because we've had some crazies lately so I think somebody's reported me to the board I'm still waiting for that

3:18

by the way but the board is so slow so you got time to keep dreading it got time until they like process this claim

3:25

or two that people have against me I'm sure so um so anyway it goes on to say

3:31

that this letter is to advise you that our Law Firm represents blah blah on behalf of their minor daughter regarding

3:38

the injuries she sustained in your children's play area at your office um

3:44

we ask that you contact uh our office upon receipt of this letter with your insurance

3:50

information um yeah happy day happy Wednesday happy Wednesday so I you know

3:59

was trying to get my uh heart out of my stomach and then keep my bile down all

4:05

of the above and just said okay take a deep breath like I I guess I wasn't

4:10

surprised that that was coming so now I'm going to back it up back it up to

4:16

tell y'all like what happened and then kind of along the way of how you helped

4:21

me manage this but um it had probably been what was the date of the incident like mid-september I guess um and so so

4:30

yeah it was it was September oh I remember this cuz I examine for I'm a board examiner for the

4:37

abpd so I was in North Carolina that was the week of board exams was it or was it the week before now I'm getting myself

4:42

confused I think you're right I think you were out complet when it happened yes so um and I got a call from my

4:50

associate and he's like hey I need to give you a heads up on what happened today and I'm like okay like he almost

4:55

never calls me yeah so anyway I call him and he's like well apparently it was a

5:01

patient of course it was a new patient of course it had to be somebody that we had no rapport with and nothing right

5:09

and it's the end of the day and it's uh I believe it was a Tuesday if that associate was there it would have been a

5:14

Tuesday um and Tuesdays in September are pretty slow so I guess um the mom checks

5:22

in and the child is in our play area and suddenly and by the way it's the only

5:27

kid in the play area and all of a sudden the entire office here's a bag loud crash here's a lot of crying and you

5:34

know wailing um and then they called the associate to say hey come you know the

5:39

kid's bleeding she fell can you come triage so he swoops in so again there's no introduction hi I'm Dr so and so how

5:47

are y'all today right like there's no time for any of that the kid is screaming like a banshee there's blood

5:52

everywhere he triages and looks and she's got a through and through through lip laceration under her lower lip

6:00

so I guess now he's like okay well you guys got to go to the emergency room and I guess the mom was Commish until she

6:07

saw the extent like once he took the gauze dabbled the blood saw what he saw

6:13

and she saw it she was like oh my God and that's where she started panicking and then she said we're going to need to

6:19

go to the emergency room aren't we and he's like yes we are then that made her even more upset yeah cuz now she's

6:24

leaving our office in the middle of traffic and is on her way to downtown

6:31

Dallas which she's going to be in a world you know world of traffic with her kid 2-year-old bleeding screaming upset

6:37

yeah going to Children's um and by the way never even made it out of the waiting room like this is just like

6:43

nothing no appointment had had been had at this point right so I think my staff was kind of shook up like my

6:48

receptionist was kind of watching going what happened you know basically I think the whole staff was kind of both ways

6:55

going is this something that we did that we caused we have something um the other

7:01

other half of the staff has you know doesn't really get the magnitude of it and they're like okay whatever so

7:07

luckily so I guess this is take-home Point number one just the documentation of what happened getting

7:14

down the timings of what happened who was present um any photos you can take so

7:21

for example my associate took a photo of so what ended up happening so by the way at this point nobody knows what happened

7:28

like the kids in the game room and nobody because by the time everybody's trying to assess it there's crying

7:34

there's blood go to the emergency room so now they're all looking at each other going what happened right they still

7:39

don't know what happened but what they see in our little game room we've got these um gaming arcade gaming consoles

7:47

and the console is on the it's been like ripped from the wall and it's on the floor so she was doing something on that

7:54

console so I started trying to play Devil's Advocate and going okay well is it us like was our console loose nobody

7:59

said anything or what you know is this was this on us um and so anyway my

8:05

associate took a bunch of photos of you know the playroom and all of that um and

8:11

then he left an outstanding note um so I guess that's Point too is make sure you

8:17

document I guess I was starting to say that but make sure you document so he had you know Mom and patient present to

8:22

office and he put around this time checked in waiting to be called back child in the game room with Mom somehow

8:29

she fell and um you know he just had a really good incident report yeah and I

8:35

say that to say I don't know that I would have thought to make a really thorough incident note like that because to me at that point likely likely I

8:42

would be thinking Eh this wasn't a clinical matter right you know what I mean like it's not like she fell on a

8:49

wet on proy paste and something like it wasn't in a clinical area um so I don't

8:56

know how thorough my incident report it may have just been oh kid playing in front Game Room new

9:01

patient if I would have even made a note at all right cuz she didn't have a chart at this pointen SE I don't know what I

9:07

would have done but all I know is grateful to him that he wrote a very thorough note yeah who witnessed it who

9:14

this all that what steps to support it all not to mention you have this is

9:19

another point you have good cameras throughout your office so that's the funny thing we don't I have cameras in

9:26

the office just cuz honestly it's funny when we first when I first opened the office I happened to have a security

9:33

camera system because of a random reason I didn't purchase it it was somebody else's long story short my dad's like I

9:41

have these cameras do you want to put them up in your office okay like if you're not doing anything else with them there's no Rhyme or Reason it's not like

9:47

I'm in an area where I thought we'd be broken into or I don't trust my staff and let's get security cameras there

9:52

none of that it just like really just like everything else kind of ass stumbled my way go I'm got some camera sure put them up right fck enough those

9:59

cameras have saved us so many times with like finding things around the office where somebody's like oh I don't know I

10:05

brought this in and it's gone and we've been able to go wait what time was that we've been able to backtrack like so

10:12

it's kind of funny super helpful so when associate calls me and I'm like you know

10:17

what I wonder if one of the cameras that's kind of in the front area could have caught this and lo and behold it

10:24

kind of did it's not a super clear picture it doesn't show everything because there's like a a pendant light

10:30

or a chandelier something in the way but it's enough for us to see that the mom checks in they sit down and this poor

10:39

mom like as a mom I'm just my heart hurts for her because it was possibly 9

10:44

seconds yeah like seven to n seconds where she's kind of like sets the kid

10:49

down she then Mom comes and sits in reception just right outside our game

10:54

area she kind of pulls her phone out you can see her glancing up she sees kid

11:00

well the 2-year-old is pretty quick so she went from one stool where she was sitting walking to the next stool you

11:07

can see Mom turn and glance at her mom's probably thinking the kid's going to sit down what Mom doesn't see that we can

11:12

see on the camera is you can see her feet leaving the ground and stepping on the stool and Mom is not watching her so

11:19

it was like six or S seconds like it's human nature yeah you know as a mom I can say can do I watch my kids every

11:25

second of every day no I don't I wish I could and I wish I did but I don't um so

11:33

but that's when and I think that's what happened the kid stood up on this stool and the stool is not even 2 feet off the

11:39

ground oh yeah it's tiny yeah it's I would say not even a foot yeah a foot maybe 18 Ines like less than 15 inches

11:45

something like that off the ground but it was enough for the kid to be able to stand up on it and probably put her

11:50

pressure down on this gaming console and then come tumbling down MH so now what

11:56

do we do what do we do so Bethany what should we do I'm going to stop because

12:01

I'm talking a lot here what should we do here well I want to say something else too that that video revealed which I

12:07

love is how many seconds was it until the front office lady was out there I mean like three she popped up

12:13

immediately yeah which again in your particular office is not easy to do because you have to there's no direct

12:20

access from your front desk you have to go all the way around the little exit area and then through the door so the

12:26

fact that she was there that quickly I love that the video video shows that and

12:31

then that your associate was there again within 30 seconds yeah so I that was one

12:39

of my favorite things when I heard about this incident before the letter when you were telling me about it that I was so

12:46

proud of because I'm like that is what y'all do so well is you do so much medical emergency training on your team

12:54

and I think legitimately good training that y'all have had that that front

12:59

office lady stood up and knew to get immediately to that situation there wasn't a moment of hesitation or oh no

13:07

what should I do or looking around and they thinking she saw an emergency and she reacted immediately to that

13:13

emergency and to me that shows a well-trained team so I would say that's another really good takeaway from this

13:20

and then that there was such clear communication in the office that your associate was able to be there within 30

13:26

seconds that is a super fast fast response time with two assistants and

13:32

toe behind him you know what I mean like you can see him starting to put his gloves on right as he gets through the door they've got Gau they were ready to

13:38

go yeah so I would say that's we've got lots of takeaways in this one but to me

13:45

when I initially heard about this I thought that is a well-trained team that is a team that knows how to communicate

13:51

in an emergency they were quick their respon we didn't I mean 30 seconds is

13:57

fast it's not like he was standing at the door waiting for an accident to happen he was likely back with patients

14:04

as were the assistant and there was such clear quick communication that your

14:09

front office lady was out there in 3 seconds after the incident probably about the same time the mom got to the

14:14

situation they both popped up at the same time she probably beat I mean mom mom was literally 2 feet away from the

14:20

kid or four feet whatever it is and so she beat her beat my receptionist by two seconds maybe yeah yeah and then for the

14:27

associate to be there that quickly as well so medical emergency training is

14:32

critical how often do you all do medical emergency training on your team we try to do something quarterly but I mean is

14:39

it you know like do we get Hands-On in everything no you a lot of it is more dactic stuff but then usually we do walk

14:46

around the office at least twice a year if not more um to kind of refresh ourselves on what is where um you know

14:54

like where our fire exits and we're not a big office so it it it would be hard to mess it up I suppose but still yeah

15:01

um now not to give us too much credit but it was the end of the day it was a Tuesday it was somewhat slower so if

15:07

there was a patient in the back it's probably one or two patients if that there was nobody else in reception um so it's not like we were in

15:14

the middle of a busy day not that I ever want to have an emergency in the middle of a busy day but it would be

15:19

interesting to see are we that well trained and that well set up you know this was a good soft run yeah um and

15:26

then I would also say another um just tidbit here is y'all do have headsets in

15:32

your office and I talked to so many um clients about headsets because they're

15:39

like I could never wear a headset you know oh to have that piece on my ear all day long and this and that and there's

15:45

there's I understand there's a lot of comfort things about a headset that would not be comfortable but it is the

15:52

most efficient form of communication and I think you can see that here in this situation with response times because we

15:59

have that if you if you think about it the lady that you're receptionist that

16:04

got up and nobody else is at the front desk but she needs to immediately attend to the emergency there is nobody else at the

16:11

front desk that would have seen that there was an emergency now thankfully it sounds like some people may have heard

16:17

that something was going on and somebody would EV have eventually probably come up and checked but because I'll have

16:23

that headset she was able to communicate immediately that there was an emergency and there was an immediate response so

16:30

there is a benefit to that level of communication device the headsets can be a complete pain but I could not function

16:37

without them could not um they are they help so much with efficiency in the office in general um and I think I mean

16:45

in the past as well when we've had a couple of true medical emergencies one I can think of it what the patient that I

16:53

was seeing was say the three-year-old that had cavities that had been referred but Mom Wasing holding a baby like a

17:01

11-month old 10-month old and apparently the baby started having a seizure and

17:06

the St I mean like EMS was there so fast because we had the headset that we called up to the front to say we need

17:13

911 the person so it didn't take somebody like walking up there trying to talk and communicate it was over the

17:19

headset and Bam everybody's ready to address the emergency well and we don't think about the efficiency but in

17:26

medical emergencies every second matters so that that even if you've got a short little hallway to walk it's still

17:33

seconds maybe it's 10 seconds but that's 10 seconds that in a Med medical emergency matters so I do think that's

17:40

another little tidbit on this that was enabled y'all to respond so quickly in a

17:46

situation yes so um so Associates calling me telling me what happened and

17:51

he's like so what do you want to do I'm like I want to cry that's what I want to do what do I want to do I don't know I

17:58

want to pretend like we didn't have this conversation can I rewind my life five minutes back

18:04

like I don't know man I don't know what I want to do what do you suggest we do you know like let's brainstorm this

18:09

together and he's like well you know I think he's like do you want to call them later today okay so that that that would

18:15

be the next question that I would ask yall like some of you know some of the people listening to this don't have an

18:20

associate or don't have anything you're it so you may not find yourself in the situation anytime soon but still I guess

18:26

just trying to think about if you did or I I don't know anyway so he's asking me you know like do you want to call this

18:33

Mom later so I'm going to ask you real quick so again so that I don't end up

18:38

monopolizing this and just chatting the whole time um so he's asking me okay like they're they're on their way to the

18:43

emergency room do you want to call and check on them so what do you think I should do so as you since you were not

18:50

on the scene I would not recommend that it's you that calls I would recommend

18:56

and I can't remember if this is what happened but I would recommend that it was the doctor that was on the scene so

19:01

if you if it you listeners if you have an associate that was the one at the emergency to me they are the one the one

19:08

most knowledgeable on that situation even though it was a very limited connection with the mom it was a more of

19:15

a connection than the owner of the practice that was not affiliated with the situation at all so I would

19:22

recommend whoever the doctor was that attended to that patient in that particular situation should be the one

19:28

to call okay good because that's what I said because I said to me it seems weird that it would be me who wasn't even in

19:34

the building and if I was a mom I would be like oh the practice owner is calling me like do they know they have faulty

19:39

equipment is she trying to um smooth all of this over and right like what is this

19:46

all about like that's what I would be thinking if I was the mom like who's this Rando calling me right now and trying to you know smooth talk me here

19:54

so I was like I don't think that's a good idea and he's like well I barely met her either like I don't even think

19:59

she knows who I am I said well regardless it's still when they're like let's go call the doctor whether she

20:06

knows your name whether she remembers your face all she knows is some dude shows up in a white jacket and tells her

20:12

you need to go to the emergency room so you should be the person to call her so he was like okay I'll call her and I'll

20:18

check on them I said keep me posted so I guess he calls them you know he waited

20:23

an hour or two and he calls her around 6:30 in the evening he's like how's it going what' they do how' they go

20:29

she tells him that um the the waiting room at the ER is ridiculous and they're

20:35

they were told they're not going to be seen for seven more hours like seven hours and so I think to me in my mind I

20:42

was like expletive because if there's any way to get a patient and parent even

20:48

more upset about something it's waiting N9 hours it's waiting nine hours with your two-year-old who hasn't eaten who hasn't

20:55

right and and now they're in an emergency room full of like sick kids and I'm like oh my God just so like

21:03

the The Dread is just setting in now and so I don't know why again I've not gone through this before maybe because we

21:09

consult and do things like that maybe that's why this was in my mind but I was like okay we need to be very clear sure

21:14

that we are kind of damage controlling as much as we can and now damn it you're

21:20

in the emergency room and now you're here like even if this could have been okay it's just gotten 10 times worse yep

21:28

so then I was like okay well now what do we do so well maybe we'll just call back the next day and I guess he said you

21:34

know please keep us posted tonight text us back call us let us know what's going on so in the morning what was

21:40

interesting then I you know of course I'm on heightened alert here so I was like have we heard anything from the mom did she leave any voicemails CU I didn't

21:46

get paged he says he didn't get paged like and they're like no nothing from them but we do have a voicemail from the

21:52

ER at 8:00 p.m. saying that our patient wasn't there so I'm like okay so at like

21:59

6:30 when he talked to her was she still there or was she trying to tell him that because it was a 7-hour waight she

22:05

wasn't going to wait and I was like oh Lord this is just getting more complicated so now I'm like what should

22:11

we do yeah so I didn't call you I was winging it on my own but what do you think we should do I mean I would have

22:17

follow up again um so but who now cuz Associate's not back that one day never

22:23

owner okay in my opinion once so a lot of times we distinguish practice owner

22:30

and Associate right so we know who the owner is in the practice we know who the associate is a lot of times when you go

22:36

into a practice you're not paying attention to who's the owner who are you do you do you have a partnership in this

22:44

as a parent I know I never think about that when I'm in a practice so to me

22:50

whoever that original point of contact is should continue to be the point of

22:56

contact from an associate standpoint now does it mean that the the team can't help out absolutely not I think a team

23:03

member could call and check as well it doesn't have to be 100% the doctor but I

23:08

do think some consistent followup to show that we're still thinking about them we want to make sure she's okay um

23:15

but I would never insert the practice owner in just because that mom doesn't

23:21

know who are you you know and why is somebody new calling and then how do we identify oursel um

23:29

because I would never say oh hey this is Dr Kuba the practice owner I wanted to call and check on you because again that's going to raise you know alarm

23:36

bells for her if the associate is unwilling unable to follow up because they're in the O

23:44

the next day or something like that then the if the practice owner does have to

23:49

call then I would just say I'm the doctor on staff today and I wanted to check in on your doctor I would not

23:55

identify as I'm the owner of the practice now she may figure figure it out on our own but we just want to show

24:01

that a doctor whoever is the one on staff that day is checking in on the doctor okay good so that's kind of what

24:07

we did where I to was like I can't get involved in this at this point um at least well I guess I could have and just

24:12

said hey I'm the doctor today like you just I guess I could have done that but I was like no let's so I just had the receptionist who

24:19

was the first one to tend to them and really the only one who had had interaction with them when the mom checked in and all of that stuff perfect

24:26

y so I had her call when Mom didn't answer and I was like that's not good um

24:31

and I think I waited a little bit and she it's not like she ever called us back and so I said well how about you

24:37

send her a text and so then I drafted the text and then the receptionist sent that text and it was something like hey

24:42

just calling to check on you know what where are we um with this and I think I

24:49

can't remember if if we asked and said well uh I think maybe that's where we just left it and then the mom said um

24:56

whatever she said back uh yeah we we saw our pediatrician today and we trying to

25:02

find a plastic surgeon or something somewhere along the way I had to figure out I was like did she not

25:08

even but if she didn't stay at Children's right then does the kids still need help or not help or so I

25:15

think that's where I was like but we got to be delicate about this and so um I asked our receptionist I said whatever I

25:21

drafted basically was like oh we had this message from children's at 8:00 P.M that y'all weren't there and the mom's

25:29

like we were there and she took a photo of their like ID bracelet at the hospital and sent that to us so I was

25:36

like okay she's thinking we're accusing her of not showing up I'm like I'm not accusing you of anything I'm just asking cuz we had this message so now I'm like

25:42

now I got a second problem yeah who and why from the emergency room would leave us a voicemail saying that the family's

25:48

not there right cuz the mom's like we were there till 10:00 and then we finally left yeah okay well now we got

25:55

to sort out that with the hospital because that is not okay and then you know like did they not call our patient

26:01

like could could all of this have kind of been resolved but now the hospital dropped the ball and so now I am the one

26:07

who's going to suffer the consequences of the hospital anyway so then the mom's

26:13

like well we're trying to find a plastic surgeon so I'm like okay now she's had to see the pediatrician now they're looking for PL

26:19

like this is not good this is not good um and so then I that's where I finally

26:26

inserted myself where we I I drafted another text and um I think I had the receptionist say well Dr Kuba is here

26:33

today and she you know so I asked her and she asked her oral surgeon friend

26:38

and he was saying um that children's really is the best place to go because they can sedate her and get it done

26:45

typically what's going to happen if you go to a plastic surgeon's office is they're going to have to do a consultation and then come back in a

26:51

week or two or whatever it is um and then the mom was like well no I found a place that we've got an appointment

26:56

today in the evening okay please keep us posted let us know hope everything's good let us know what else we can do for you yeah because to

27:03

me at this point that's all I can do is show that we care and honestly in my mind at this point I'm thinking this is going to play out one of two ways either

27:10

she's going to be embarrassed that this happened embarrassed that she wasn't watching her kid embarrassed that the

27:15

kid broke our gaming console afraid that we're going to charge her for it so we

27:21

could either go that route or she's going to be like you have faulty equipment in your office my kid got hurt in your office and I'm going to sue you

27:28

it could go either way MH and as she continues to not pick up her phone and

27:33

all of her text message back were like a few word ansers I was like I can bet you anything this is going to fall in the

27:39

other in the I'm going a suu category but I could be hopeful right I'm like I'm always being told I'm negative so

27:45

quit being negative maybe this is going to be like you know maybe I'm just over overdoing this here so she never

27:53

contacts us back so the next day I drafted another text reception it sented from her her behalf as if it was her

28:00

writing it and said something like well how did the the consultation go and she said yeah they went ahead and stitched

28:05

it it was awful but it's done okay so my question to you now is

28:10

now what do we do yeah so at this point I think we've done what we needed to do

28:16

and I would potentially you know maybe a few days later do one more you know just

28:22

thinking about little so and so how you know how's she doing um but other than that I'd probably just just sit and wait

28:30

so the question I have for you that I had for myself and that we were all bouncing around going okay is this going

28:35

to be one of those because you know how it is and and we've talked about it before on this podcast I think um the

28:41

number of patients that I've had it's not that many but it's still

28:46

mindboggling to me that it's even one let alone the four or five that it's been that we're always told by practice

28:53

management consultants and like you and scheduling Institute and whoever it is like everybody says

28:58

you need to do your recare retention and call overdue treatment and all of that

29:04

um and I've always been very reluctant to do that because to me I'm like we're in a metroplex area people know they

29:10

need to go people know where we are you want to come in you can come in the minute I start calling you to go oh you

29:16

didn't schedule your treatment oh you still have that overdue feeling oh you still haven't gotten I start thinking I wonder if the patient going you're

29:22

hounding me right because I think about it from the Viewpoint of like as far as I know but do Physicians call their

29:28

patients and tell them to come back in or justes the cardiologist say hey you're overdue like so no other medical

29:34

specialty field it's and maybe they do and I'm unaware but to me I'm like no it's probably you call us if you need us

29:42

we're not calling you right so then I'm like why does Dental do that because we seem desperate that we're always calling

29:48

and trying to get the back in for recare and so to me it would it's almost like

29:53

buzz off I'll call you when I'm ready for my cleaning yeah albe it I will say that there are plenty of patients we've

29:59

had that are like thank you so much for following up with us we just got distracted and we forgot so I kind of

30:05

that's where I was sitting here going okay well if I don't ever call them again because I want them to forget

30:11

about us um is this going to be one of those that's like that office couldn't even care to ask you know we were there

30:18

for a new patient visit right they couldn't even care about us to follow up with us they were just done with us so

30:25

is that where this family's going to fall right or if I try to ask them to go ahead and come on in are they like oh

30:32

heck no we're not coming back there right so what do I do you know what I

30:37

for I'm like I feel like I'm going to be damned if you do damned if you don't kind of situation it for me from a risk

30:44

standpoint it's the greater risk to follow up with them and try to get them back

30:49

in um because it was a very negative experience that led to more negative

30:55

experiences even if she had hand selected the mom had hand selected you guys to that she wanted to bring her

31:02

daughter there my guess is just from the trauma of what happened she would not

31:07

come back and so I think it's a greater risk again follow up with the current

31:13

situation which y'all did y'all did thoroughly maybe one more a few days

31:18

later to go we're just thinking about her how's she doing how's she feeling thinking about you you know let us know

31:24

after that I would say no more communication um I would imagine she was potentially

31:30

not even activated in dentrix but either way I would make sure she doesn't re

31:36

inactivate her make sure she doesn't receive any phone calls or anything like that because I just think you run the

31:42

greater risk of of stirring something up okay and and

31:47

stupid me I didn't even ask you about this did I I don't think I asked you what I should do and why I didn't I have no idea um because of all the other

31:54

drama going on in Kuba land over here so um so I kind of was going though that's

32:02

what my gut was telling me but then the other part of me kept going but once again maybe she's thinking like let me

32:08

Dodge the dentist cuz she might be sending me a bill for this gaming console and maybe that's why they don't

32:14

want me back in their office I was like I really don't know and this is the downside like it was a new patient we have zero rapport with each other

32:21

exactly so common sense would tell me she don't have anything to do with our office that's what I was thinking but I

32:26

was like but in that slight 5% chance that she feels bad about what happened in the office and now feels embarrassed

32:33

to call our office so I was like you know what let's just wait for two weeks let's do nothing and then I asked my

32:40

receptionist I said can you make an event in two weeks to just let's talk about what do we want to do because in two weeks maybe we'll have an idea maybe

32:46

she will have called back on her own or who knows um so the twoe mark came and

32:52

then I was like uh what do you think we should do so I just I guess I just asked her I was like what do you think you want what do we want to do about this

32:59

and I think maybe associate was there so I was like what do you think we should do he's like yeah I don't know and he

33:04

usually has an opinion about everything and he's like I really don't know and I said okay so basically I'm on my own

33:09

with this great um which I guess I wasn't I could have called you so I was being dumb again I didn't call you and

33:16

um so I just head to the re reception I said if you're not um opposed to because

33:21

she's such a gentle person she's one of our best interface people with with clients and I said would you call her

33:28

and say hey we were wanting to check on your daughter um and I'm going to ask you kind of an awkward question here you

33:34

know do did you you know you were here for an exam did you want that or you done with our office like just kind of

33:41

wanted to know like we're here to help you if you want to be seen But if you're like oh no I'm not stepping back in your facility we totally understand that as

33:48

well so just let us know what you want to do so I think she tried calling the mom again the mom didn't answer the

33:53

phone and I don't know if she left her a voicemail or if she texted her I can't remember what happened with that but

33:59

then I was like okay leave it alone we will that is it our the ball is out of our court yeah and then that must have

34:06

been I don't know maybe two weeks ago if that um and then we get the letter the

34:12

letter so did that called spur the letter or were they already my guess is you know I think it was already in

34:19

process um but I guess there's a chance it was that call because that's been my

34:24

luck that you know we just called a check on somebody and I got that awful

34:30

review that we got a couple weeks ago that I told you about um I'll talk to the I'll maybe I'll talk about it on the

34:35

podcast one of these days but um and then um the other one that needless to

34:43

say we all we've been doing is like just calling to see if you want to come in for your recare you're overdue and

34:48

people blowing up at us please somebody out there tell me it happens to you too like is it just us cuz I I don't think

34:54

we we are aggressive about it you're overdue like like that at all so I don't

35:00

know I don't know if parents just feel guilty I know the one the one that blew up ridiculous on us I know it was guilt

35:06

for her um so anyway now I've got this letter yep yep so and another thing

35:12

though going back that was it that same day or next day that I saw you sent an

35:18

email yeah so it was that same day so the day the associate called me that the incident happened I sent an email and I

35:24

did I copied you on the email so you would be in the loop and I copied my malpractice guy and then

35:30

I copied my general liability guy and I was like what do I do with this like

35:36

this kid fell what do I do and uh malpractice guy medical malpractice guy

35:41

emailed back and was like no if it's not a clinical thing then I'm out of it it's your general liability guy general

35:46

liability guy is like okay I'm going to go ahead and alert the insurance company all of this now I'm sitting there going

35:52

wait a minute is this going to be like one of those things where you get your car windshield repaired and now your premium go up like you know do I have to

36:00

report this cuz there's nothing really to report right now the family's not upset in terms of demanding something

36:05

from us but they could be so do I alert them do I not alert them like what do I do here so that's why I reached out to

36:12

my agent and he then I guess reached out to the company well then the next thing you know the next day I have a letter an

36:19

email saying oh we're opening this claim and the lady calls me and I was like no

36:25

no no no no no no no please don't do that just I'm just trying to make sure I have my bases covered I want to know

36:31

like should I be doing anything but there's no claim yet hopefully there won't be hopefully by me making this

36:37

call there won't be but I'm just trying to get my decks in a row what do I need to do blah blah blah so when this letter

36:43

came in on two days ago 3 days ago whatever it was I followed back up with um actually that evening I um I call I

36:52

just contacted a couple of my friends that are lawyers that are not Tor law I guess this a T Law whatever this is um

36:59

they're not bad that's what they told me but this I was getting the same advice that this mom is going to have to prove

37:05

negligence it's like the burden of proof is on her that we are a negligent office or we're a dangerous office a dangerous environment and I was like okay um and

37:14

then I called a dear colleague of mine that he has gotten me out of so many jams and I said hey you know what do you

37:20

think about this and so anyway he called me back and basically said the same thing and he said just let your

37:26

insurance take care of it now this is one thing he said to me which didn't apply in my situation but I might in

37:31

anybody listening so ears up like this is I thought this was quite smart and

37:37

something that I could see myself screwing up if this is the boat I did fall in but he was like you know a lot

37:42

of times we feel bad about it so we offer to pay for that ER bill or maybe I would have offered to pay for the lip

37:48

suture I would have offered to and he's like do not do that because the minute you do that then the insurance company

37:54

can say we're out of it because you interrupted this flow of Discovery or whatever it is and he's like you know as

38:01

Dennis we tend to be these big bleeding hearts where we want to step in and help because we feel bad that it happened but

38:07

it's kind of one of those things too where I think all of us are always going hey if I apologize or if I give money back does it seem like I'm guilty you

38:13

know that that weird awkward icky icky place to be and so he's like but in this

38:19

case because it's not a clinical malpractice issue we just feel bad that the that somebody got hurt in our

38:25

facility we offer to pay for something and then we shoot ourselves in the foot so the reason I didn't fall into that

38:31

camp this time was cuz I was like oh hell no I'm not paying for anything you weren't watching your kid and so I'm

38:38

just going to wait to see what happens here and so I was not offering I never had offered I wasn't planning on

38:44

offering any monies for anything right um because I knew we weren't in the wrong on this one so um I did the next

38:52

day then when I got to the office I looked up the email of the lady that I was supposed to call and um you know who

38:57

had tried calling me to open the claim a few weeks ago and that I had rebuffed very quickly I was like no no no I don't want to talk to you there's no claim

39:03

there's no claim like go away um and so I called her I was like it's me it's time to it's the time to start that

39:09

claim can you call me and she was very precious she called me back and in the meantime while I was waiting for her to

39:14

call back so when the incident happened and we have my associates amazing clinical note about everything then I

39:22

had that evening I'd gone wait a minute I can look at the video cameras let me see this so then I as I'm watching the

39:28

video I started making my own notes about oh the kid was here the mom was there it was a you know 9-second laps of

39:35

time between this and this and so I made my own clinical note entry when my other

39:40

associate got there in the morning I was like hey will you go take a look at all of our equipment and all of this take

39:46

some more pictures so he had made his own entry so we had all of that we already had all those photos saved to

39:51

the patient chart so I printed all of those off the other thing I took pictures of was the signs in our office

39:58

cuz we have a sign that leads to the back that says you need to watch your kid we are not liable for anything we

40:03

have another sign that says watch your kid while they're playing we're not liable um kind of like the consent form

40:09

yeah damned if you do damned if you don't right like even if you have it signed well it just still is not you

40:15

know save you but then if you don't have it you're screwed so same is with the signs I've always just thrown up some

40:20

signs up there just cuz yeah um just to maybe make a parent pause a minute to go

40:25

I better be watching my kid right because I think we even have a sign that says you know if there's damage to any

40:31

of the equipment you will be responsible for the incurring the cost of that um so

40:36

that's where I think in the back of my mind I was like maybe this mom thinks even though not that she would have even made it to that sign she was in there

40:42

for such a short period of time according to the video but still anyway I took pictures of the signage um and I

40:49

sent that and then I I think I just kind of in my email to them I said clinical

40:55

notes from the incident are this the all of the text exchange that mom had with

41:00

the reception that's other form of documentation we got to keep so we had I printed off the journal list that showed

41:07

how many times we try to call her and then um printed off all the text

41:12

messages and so I had all of that to submit that we did try to follow through that Mom was not answering her phone all

41:17

of that um and then I put and I'd also like the reviewer whoever you know insurance lawyer reviewer whatever their

41:23

process is whoever reviews this please know that in our 12 years of existence

41:29

we see patients from a few days old to 18 years old with every special need in between and we've never had an incident

41:35

so I guess to me where I was trying to make a point of that was if if Mom has to prove that we're in unsafe

41:41

environment then how for all these years have we not yeah so I included that in

41:47

there which they would know because they've been the general liability company so if they'd had any claims up until now hopefully they would add that

41:54

themselves but just in case I wanted to throw that in there right and then I wanted to uh let them know that I had

42:00

the video yeah and I was able to which again I've never done this before and I'm very techn Savvy but I was able to

42:06

go ahead and email them the video awesome so I got a response back from whoever's going to be you know

42:13

conducting the investigation or whatever um that they're sending it to their digital lab to try to enhance it and

42:21

then he asked me if I had any photos of any signage in the office I was like yes I've already sent it but let me send it to you again so they do ask for that so

42:28

that was another takeaway I was going to say if you don't have signs up about I even have a sign up in our break room for our staff that says if your items

42:35

are not locked up I am not responsible for something getting stolen right because I'm always on them I'm like you never know delivery people or you never

42:44

know if your stuff's not or if we have a temp in that day or if we have somebody we're interviewing that

42:49

day I'm not liable you need to lock your stuff up I provide lockers and if you didn't have your stuff locked up don't

42:55

blame it on me cuz I I guess I know the sucker that would feel bad about it and who would offer to pay for so and so's

43:00

Louis vuon bag that got stolen do that that sign reminds you yes

43:06

yes that I tried to tell you you know um yeah so signage is another good Takeaway

43:11

on this is to have signs up that say you know especially in pedo please watch

43:17

your child or not responsible for any injuries I think um the you know checking of the areas every so often

43:25

just make sure like do we still feel like this is safe I can remember when we were um changing out the chairs in your

43:32

waiting room and something a a larger

43:37

heavier set person set in one of the new chairs and again our awesome receptionist was like uhoh that doesn't

43:44

look good because the chair was not well I think the mom came in and said that chair is not going to hold me ah okay so

43:53

then we researched that we were like okay what's the weight limit on these chairs and sure enough we were like uh

43:59

we can't have the whole waiting room be these chairs because they're not for heavier people so just all we can't be

44:07

too careful in checking to make sure that our facility is safe inside even

44:13

outside do I was uh walking into an office I'm having trouble remembering

44:19

which one it was this week but the rug was not affixed to the floor so you you

44:25

know you walk in the door and there's a little mat there to make sure that people can dry off their feet well it

44:31

used to be velcroed and that velcro had worn down and now the the matap moved so

44:36

we were walking through the office together we the whole team we were walking through going hey what needs to change in the office what we just do

44:43

this every so often to make sure that it looks good that it's functioning well and the mat was one of the things that

44:48

we noticed and so just you can't be too safe with that kind of stuff I think um

44:54

you know having like a quarterly walk through let's walk through the office is there anything that's a trip Hazard or a

45:00

fall Hazard or is there a sharp corner that you know needs to be kind of worn down or whatever the case may be I think

45:07

that's important to do um and then I think on top of that the signage is

45:13

really important well then we don't we don't really you know when you're there every day you just don't see things you

45:20

just kind of like it just Blends into everything else it's just normal so I think that's why I love when you come in

45:26

because to me you're and I know you're looking and you would point out if something a didn't look good or if there

45:31

had been chipped paint that none of the rest of us caught or whatever it is but um with scheduling Institute that's a

45:37

training they do where they come in and they talk about the new patient experience they take the whole team like you said out to the parking lot they

45:43

notice things like on ours where they're like these trees are covering up your sign the bushes look dead like all of

45:49

these things that I don't even notice like I just walk into the building um and then how to so we actually and I'm

45:55

glad you're saying this because I don't I don't we used to do it now I don't know if we do anymore or not but we used to have somebody do a monthly

46:01

walkthrough like there was an assigned person that was part of the checklist to walk through and check things and she's

46:07

not there every day so she sometimes notices things anyway um but things like

46:13

up in reception I don't go up there I couldn't even remember what our gaming station looked like where this kid fell

46:19

cuz I haven't been up there in months I just don't go up there right so I think um you know it's it's one of those

46:24

things that somebody walking through now I know we used to do that and I don't know if post pandemic we've done it

46:30

anymore yeah um or maybe the staff is doing it and I'm just unaware of it because they've gotten so used to going okay this needs repair this needs repair

46:37

and they all just take care of it yeah but things like the eyewash station or

46:42

the I don't know you you name it there's there's things that could be you know looking funny that the rest of us don't

46:49

really catch well and you just don't want to find out after a moment you always want to be again we're all about

46:54

prevention in the D field so as much as we can we want to prevent any potential

46:59

problem that could happen on the premises of our office so I think that's an important takeaway is if you haven't

47:05

done that in a while or you don't have a system for doing that I think that's really important to do regularly putting

47:12

up appropriate signage the documentation on this is just so so so important I

47:18

love that there's video I love that the um doctor you know that was on staff

47:24

that day left a really good note love all the follow-ups were documented with this Mom I just think about you know

47:32

situations that happen where we want to bury our heads in the sand and we do and

47:37

therefore we we're lacking a good note or we're lacking a good followup or um things that can really save our butt in

47:44

this situation so I think those are really good takeaways walk you know the headphones look into walkie-talkies it's

47:49

the most efficient form of communication that's such a good takeaway do your medical training there's just so many

47:55

things packed into this one situation that can be such powerful

48:01

takeaways you know so I will let y'all know what happens when I know but this is

48:07

literally like I talked to the person yesterday and submitted all the documents um well yeah yesterday was

48:12

Friday yes mhm so um it's fresh it's fresh we're going to have to wait and

48:19

see drama drama drama As the World Turns as the B as the bur turns

48:27

thanks for joining the conversation today we hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone but we

48:34

also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your

48:39

practice we value your feedback so please take a few moments to rate and

48:45

review the podcast finally we want to make sure that we're covering the topics

48:50

that matter to you so track us down on Facebook Instagram and Twitter and let

48:56

us know what topics you want us to cover as always please know that we are

49:01

rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama

English (auto-generated)