Why Training Doesn’t Stick

Why are changes and improvements so hard to implement? Maybe we start strong, but then old habits die hard. Or, maybe we never even started with the improvement. Why? In this episode, Dr. Kuba and Bethany discuss the challenge of implementation. They incorporate several real scenarios of team members and discuss the WHY behind the lack of implementation. In one of the scenarios, an attitude of resistance was the cause, while another scenario proved to be simply a “ceiling” issue. In order to correct a lack of implementation, it is critical that team leaders understand their team’s default so that effective long-term solutions can be made. 

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

Staff Accountability 

Holding Team Members Accountable 

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental
0:21
drama. Let's get started. How do you do, friend? Hey. Hey, lady. I'm still tired
0:28
from the AAPD. Like I'm Why does it take so long to recover? It was so much fun.
0:34
So, thank you to everybody who stopped by the booth. We had so much fun. Um I
0:40
kind of didn't go to class one whole day cuz I was having so much fun at the booth. That's what one of your buddies
0:46
said to me. She's like, "I don't think she's gone to any classes." Yeah. I'm like, "Well, she's got too much social stuff happening." I was having fun uh
0:54
taking pictures in the photo booth. Yes. Yes. Um, okay. So, I I'm I'm still a
0:59
little bit crusty, but I don't think for any reason. I think it's just I'm tired. Yeah. Um, and I kind of uh let my staff
1:06
have it a little while ago and and so the theme kind of uh is funny that it
1:11
parallels one of your things on your list. Um but the uh topic if we can do
1:19
today is how do you get people to change
1:25
and and so let me be more specific about that like if there's protocols that we
1:30
want to be followed in our practice or a system or whatever it may be verbiage I
1:37
think and we do the training and when I say in my office we meaning um I maybe
1:46
talk about why this is important and this is what we're doing and then usually you're right there next to me
1:51
going yes I agree and you know Kuba maybe had these wacky ideas but these
1:57
two pearls and let me build on the pearls cuz she's right about these two points um and then we may do like
2:04
scheduling institute training or we go to the Southwest Dental Conference and we take a class on blah blah or in our
2:10
case now we went to AAPD and I made everybody sit in on uh presenting treatment plans effectively, right? So,
2:19
um and then we come back and I'm like, "Okay, well, what all did y'all glean from this? Share your pearls. You know,
2:24
what did what do y'all think?" And we had one person that was like, "Well, we need to xyz." Our consistency in our
2:33
verbiage. Yes. And I'm like, "Uh-huh. Yep. I agree. Go a little
2:40
further. What are you talking about?" Well, I think if we all did blah blah blah blah. And she wasn't wrong. But I
2:48
finally again because I'm kind of tired and not in the mood. I was like, "Okay,
2:54
I'm going to be very direct and bl" and you were you were in the meeting and I made sure not to look at you cuz I know
3:00
you would be like, "What the hell are you doing? Shut it." And I was like, "I
3:06
don't want to shut it. I'm going to dig my hole and I will go sleep in it." um
3:11
you're going to speak today. Yes. My truth and my truth was and I just said,
3:17
"Okay, well, yes, it would be nice if we were all equally trained and equally
3:23
versed in doing treatment plan presentation." And I said, "I am not
3:28
trying to be offensive, y'all. I really am not. But let me put it this way. The people that I ask to do treatment talks
3:36
are the ones who understand the dentistry and know what the pros and cons are of each treatment that we're
3:43
presenting because when a parent hits me with well why can't we just do a filling instead of the pulp and crown and if
3:51
somebody is to go uh well yeah I don't know why we can't do a filling game over
3:57
like that is useless to me you do not need to be in that room if you are if
4:02
The parent's like, "Well, why can't we just do a filling?" And your response is, "Well, the doctor said pulp and
4:07
crown." And then the parent goes, "But I want a filling." But the doctor said, "Pulp and crown." That is ineffective.
4:13
You've not gotten, you've not dug enough to figure out why the parent is stuck on
4:20
filling. Do they think it's cheaper? Do they think it's prettier? Do they think a crown is like what they have? Like,
4:26
what is it about it? And you're not digging. You're just going in circles. Yeah. So, and I see a lot of the same
4:32
with the insurance up at the front. So, anyway, and then I said, and then the rest of it is, are you reading the room?
4:38
Are you reading the personalities? Are you I was like, so there's a lot to having these
4:43
conversations, and not everybody can do them honestly, but by meeting all the criteria, cuz we have some on our team
4:50
who know the dentistry, but they're not good at talking with parents that seem
4:56
difficult. They get nervous and they start stuttering over themselves. We've got others that are very confident in talking about the parent to the parent,
5:03
but their verbiage and dialogue and the actual knowledge and information they're sharing is wrong, right? It is wrong.
5:09
And so, even though no matter how much training we've done and how many times you've heard me repeat it and do it,
5:15
it's still wrong. And I'm like, okay. So, I just said, you know, there's there's there's only so much I can do to
5:22
train. And then I have my go-to people. And when those go-to people aren't there, then I have to pivot. And if
5:29
those go-to people left, then I'd have to figure out a whole different system, right? Like, am I hiring somebody new
5:35
kind of system. Um, so that was my example of this. And then you, so I was
5:40
already thinking that I was already on that train cuz we had our meeting earlier today. And now I'm like, hm, I
5:46
was awfully crusty. Um, I hope people show up to work tomorrow cuz I was very blunt.
5:53
Um but it is what it is. And uh then you hit me with you've got a client. Do you
5:59
want to Yeah. So it was a slightly different sim situation but the same
6:06
content which is she's invested all this time into training her business team
6:12
members. She went through a lot of recent changes in her practice as far as dropping insurance. And so we put a lot
6:19
of time into building a really good plan for how to say things, when to say
6:24
things, what to say specifically. And she keeps getting my
6:30
client keeps getting these patient complaints that and when the patient talks about how it was explained, it's
6:36
not according to what we had trained on. And so her frustration mimicked yours
6:43
when when you were talking about your situation today where it's like what do what do I have to do to get these ladies
6:51
to execute what we've talked about? We've trained, we've talked,
6:56
we've gone back and trained and talked again and it just doesn't seem to be sticking. What are your options at that
7:03
point? So, similar to what you just said, it's like you've got your two people that thank goodness they do implement. They do follow
7:10
your advice and what you've trained on. They're confident in what they're
7:15
saying. But if you lost those two and you have people that have bits and pieces but don't have the whole package
7:21
or they're just poor at implementation, like what do you do in that situation? For my client, these two ladies are what
7:28
she's got, you know? So, she's in a rock and a hard place cuz she's like, I need
7:33
this to work with these two ladies. I don't have a backup option, but how do
7:38
we get it to stick? And so, I do think it's a frustrating place for practice
7:44
owners or managers to be in because you've explained what needs to happen, you've trained on it, you've invested
7:50
time and energy into it, and it's highly frustrating when it just doesn't seem to
7:56
get implemented. So I guess to me my question is then why? Yeah. So in my
8:02
case I don't think I've got anybody who's just like nope not going to do it. I really do think I have a ceiling
8:08
issue. Like I've got you know again and you go back to personalities and we go through
8:14
personalities and we go through all of this and I think there's just some people that are so good at XYZ and they
8:21
are terrible at ABC. Yeah. And so I guess my thought is it's not an attitude
8:29
issue, right? And so I've discerned that. I've teased that out over the years and gone if you're not doing this
8:35
right, it's because you literally can't. It would be like asking me to do math problems all day. Like it's not that I
8:42
don't I mean I don't want to, but if I I literally can't do this math this equation, this physics, like I cannot.
8:49
Um no matter how much you sit and train and tutor me, it is just not going to happen. Um, and I wish it could. I would
8:56
do my best to try, but it's just not going to be what we need it to be. It's not in the cards. Um, so I can totally
9:03
relate to that. Mhm. I think my questions for your client would be
9:10
because when I asked you why or what what has been like do they
9:15
not see these patients getting upset or do they and and I think you said what did you say that they were just like
9:21
well it it works for us. This is what works for us. So, I think you're you hit the nail on the head that I think first
9:28
and foremost we need to evaluate is what we're expecting out of this person
9:34
possible or is it truly not in their wheelhouse? To me, that's kind of step one. If we know that they're capable or
9:41
that they've got the right personality to do XYZ, whatever we're asking them to do, that's got to be kind of step one.
9:48
And then I think step two is, are they just fundamentally disagreeing with you? which is what it made it sound like when
9:55
you said they were like, "Well, this is what works for us." And that my response to that is, "Oh, is it then?" Yeah. Um
10:03
because that's a different problem. And I think that's where we were. But a yearish ago when we were going through
10:09
all of this without a doubt. And we were going in circles and circles and training and training and oh my god, the
10:15
number of hours and training sessions we had. And I never even beyond training, the conversations, the follow-ups, the
10:22
why didn't this get done? It's it's an infuriating cycle to be in. Yeah. It's a
10:29
crazy cycle. Like you feel like a crazy person. Um and at that point then you're
10:34
just like, "Okay, you you two are, you know, doing your own thing and that's
10:41
highly disrespectful to the doctor first of all and all the time, money, and effort. like you think you're smarter
10:47
and I get that you do it all day long like you know but I think to me at the
10:52
end of the day the doctor wants it done this way and your job is to make doc's life easier because it's her practice.
10:59
Yeah. So where is that uh ego coming from that I am going to do it this way?
11:06
Yeah. Now I can see where you feel like your way is better. So that I guess to me the the next question is are we sure
11:14
it's not working? like how does this doc know? Was it, you know, five patients
11:20
that were going to be upset anyway, but you've got 95 that are fine
11:26
or h how do you tease out that it it really like these were people that were
11:31
going to complain anyway because it's different? So, I think that is Doc making a mountain out of two complaints
11:38
and really like it's going just fine and she's losing her mind over going, "Oh, two patients are upset." Cuz that's
11:43
stuff I do. You know, it's like when you get like 50 positive reviews and you get
11:48
the one negative and all you can go is like, "I suck because I got this one negative." Yeah. And that's all you can
11:54
see for a little while. Is that the boat we're in with this doc or is it Definitely not. Uh, definitely not. So,
12:01
you and I have talked a lot about um insurance drops and navigating those
12:07
successfully, and I tell people all the time about your most recent drop with Delta was one that I had the lowest
12:13
expectations for as far as patient retention. And so, without going too far
12:19
on a rabbit trail, I'm going to say you're exactly right. we first need to evaluate what the team member is saying
12:26
because maybe their system and what works for them is what's best. And so
12:31
you need to consider that that is an option that what they're doing could actually work for a number of reasons.
12:38
And are you just being a stick in the mud to be right? Be right. Yeah. That
12:44
you want it done this way for no other reason than you want it done this way. Okay. Well, people aren't going to adopt
12:50
those systems over time because they realize there's a better way to do it, but you've handcuffed them to prevent
12:57
them from doing it in that way. And that can be extremely frustrating for an employee to be in, a place for the
13:02
employee to be in. So, I I do think that's like a super important point in this. In this particular case, the data
13:10
showed that the way that this team, these two ladies were carrying out
13:16
business has not been as successful. So, they were handling some insurance conversations in ways that they thought
13:22
was best. Despite lining out this whole plan and this whole verbiage and all
13:28
that, they were pivoting in the moment and kind of tweaking the plan, so to
13:34
speak. I don't think it was an allout like we're just not doing it that way. I think they intended to do it in the way
13:40
that we discussed, but as issues ar rose up then they were like, "Oh, we're going to do it this way
13:46
instead." And I just pulled some retention reports and her retention is lower than I would have liked for it to
13:53
be from those Delta patients, which I was not anticipating at all for this
13:58
practice. So I think first and foremost if your team is not implementing a
14:04
system or verbiage or something that you've done or tried to train on, you do have to evaluate am I is this really
14:12
working or not? Um can I just be okay with the system that they're doing? Is
14:18
it really all that bad? And I think that's a fair question to ask. Or if
14:24
when you ask that question, you're like, "No, it is not working and this is the evidence of why it's not working." Then
14:31
that means, okay, well, we've got to go back and figure out why they're not implementing or how we can get them to implement. So now I'm going to counter
14:38
myself. Yeah. And play the devil the flip side. Um, so first of all, to me, the fact that you and this doc came up
14:47
with your plan, this is not your first rodeo. might be dog's first rodeo, but it's not your first rodeo. And so the
14:53
fact that this team thinks that y'all don't know what you're talking about is, like I said, extremely disrespectful,
14:58
but also really stupid. Like, cuz doctor's not going to waste money on you
15:04
and you coming in with some hairrained idea, right? Like you're you're pretty
15:09
not that you can't be wrong, but it's an odd day when you are, right? Um, and
15:14
you're very upfront with that going, I don't know how this is going to go. Let's try this. And then you yourself are going well pivot as needed. But when
15:20
you come in and going, okay, this is how I want this to be, you've taken all of into consideration about the demographic
15:28
and the blah blah blah the blah blah blah, which I doubt these two ladies have done, right? Like they think their
15:33
world is the beall end all and this is how everything works. So that in and of itself is what I'm suspecting is
15:39
happening. They think they're right because they've done this for however many years. I think the next thing that
15:45
I wonder is um number one, how much how many how much of this is them putting
15:51
themselves in the patient's shoes, right? And so it's kind of like when we say, you know, don't put yourself in the
15:56
patient's wallet, but if you yourself are going, they charge $300 for a stainless steel crown. I would never
16:03
spend that. So, I'm not going I can I can That's the vibe. I wonder if they're going if somebody told me that I was out
16:11
of network and I had to pay money, I would just leave that office, right? And they're projecting that they're
16:17
projecting. So that's the vibe I'm getting out of what you're saying. Um
16:22
three, yeah, they don't like making people unhappy. They don't want to be the one to get yelled at. So they're
16:28
abandoning ship and they're saving themselves. Yeah. But then the the ship is sinking as well and they're not
16:35
looking out for the end game, the big game of retaining. And so where I said, well, maybe if they're going, well, two
16:41
people were going to be upset anyway, but eight are fine. I think my argument to that would be if they're thinking that is, well,
16:49
that's two that were vocal. Yeah. What about the other eight that either silently left like that silent
16:56
resignation that people they're silently resigning out of your practice because they're like I don't know that was weird
17:01
and I don't like it. Yeah. Um because of the way you chose to explain it rather
17:06
than the way that you had mapped out. Yeah. Um and I also think even if it was
17:13
just those two, two is still bad enough. Yeah. Because those two like it's it's
17:18
like with anything with like with anything negative. How many people are those two going to go tell? Right. So, I
17:24
think this is where these the the vibe I got when you first said it was it seems
17:30
like it's harder for them. Yeah. Like it's harder for them to stay the course
17:37
when a patient is coming at them. So maybe they have a limited understanding. They understand it to a point and then
17:42
they themselves don't understand it after that. Because I think that's what was happening with us. Like we had we had one that just outright I think was I
17:50
just don't want to because I wouldn't. I wouldn't spend money on that. I wouldn't
17:56
you know. That's exactly what I was thinking about when you were saying that it's just fundamentally they themselves
18:03
can't align with what you're trying to do or they're putting their own selves into. I think about your former
18:09
treatment planner and we did all kinds of training with her. you brought in
18:16
extra training for her to try to get that treatment acceptance of. But at the end of the
18:22
day, she finally in one of the conversations cuz there's multiple conversations we had with her. In one of
18:28
the conversations, she said, "I wouldn't spend that on my child." And it was like
18:33
light bulbs off everywhere. Like we've been fighting a winless battle with her because she herself doesn't believe in
18:40
it enough to actually convince the parent to move forward. So, you're exactly right. I I think we've got to
18:47
look at the person and see if they're actually agreeing with So, my my guess is from what you said, it's I I'm I feel
18:55
like it's somebody who doesn't agree with it. They're probably going I wouldn't stay in this office and pay
19:00
this out of pocket. I would go down the street to an office that took my insurance. So, I think that's part of it. I think the other part of it is
19:07
there's there might be a ceiling issue where they understand it to a point and then now when the patient pushes back and then they're going but uh uh cuz we
19:14
had one of those those are the two people up at the front desk where for when we were dealing with this there was the one who didn't understand it right
19:21
and thought she understood it or and then she would just hit that point where she didn't want to look stupid and so
19:27
then she started making up her own stuff going down her own path to what she was familiar with and the other one was the
19:32
the mindset of I'm not going to do it. Yeah. So, it's one of those implementing
19:45
and then is there a desire cuz that that's a different type of ceiling. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's almost like
19:50
you have to eliminate both of those to figure out what you're dealing with because it's if
19:56
it's a ceiling issue sometimes that's solvable. you're like, "Okay, I need to change my expectations of implementation
20:04
with that person." They may not be able to implement when it comes to treatment planning, for example, but man, they're
20:12
good at getting patients scheduled and handling phones like a champ. So instead
20:17
of me continuing to push this treatment acceptance training on this person, I'm
20:23
going to call it a day on that, move on, and I'm going to focus my training and my time and my money on skills that I
20:30
know she's naturally good at. So some of that, even if it's a ceiling issue, it can be solvable. Well, or or like for
20:37
us, there are there's a point to which I will let some of the people go talk about something. Yeah. And then I'm
20:43
like, "And once you talk about, you know, the show mom the photos, show mom,
20:48
talk to her about when these teeth are going to exfoliate. Go ahead and show her the crowns." Yeah. And then you tag
20:53
out. Yeah. So you can get us like, you know, 60% there. Better than zero.
20:58
There's others that I'm like, "Uh-uh. You're not you're not getting us anywhere on the road. You stay away from that parent. You're just going to ruin
21:04
this, right? Derail us. You're going to derail us." So kind of knowing the strengths and weaknesses of what you can
21:10
be doing. So, say for example, you're talking about this is a front desk person and let's assume that she doesn't
21:16
really understand the concept of being out of network and the patient getting the check, but the whatever, but she
21:24
doesn't feel like she can ask because she should know it in theory. And so, she's just, oh, the doc assumes I know
21:31
this and I I I do, but then she's blundering everything. That's one that it's like, okay, maybe maybe she's doing
21:37
up to the verification part and doing the trying to collect part and then when the patient doesn't understand, say,
21:43
I'll be right back with my manager. I don't I don't know something. And it might even be an RDA that really
21:50
understands it and then you're swapping out. Maybe you're finishing up her clinical note while she's talking.
21:56
It seems a little bit um inefficient and it might be, but
22:01
those might be ways you work through that. I don't know. But then if you've got this I it sounds to me like it's
22:09
more of an attitude. Yeah. I just don't believe you're right. You're not right. And these patients are going to leave
22:14
cuz I would leave. And so well and to me with that again, you know, it's interesting how as we're talking, I just
22:21
keep coming back to last summer and we had maybe one one of the people that we
22:28
had to let go. This was on the triple firing. I'll have to reference it in the show notes. It was our Mama Said series.
22:33
Um when we That was a different set, was it? Yeah, that was the summer before. That was a triple. Last summer was two.
22:42
Oh, yeah. So, this was the two. Yes. So, you're right. Um so, I think I'm keep thinking about these two ladies because
22:49
we can't hold on to any staff, y'all. That's why you're listening to me right now. We're complete failures at staff
22:56
retention and apparently staff training, too. So, Exactly. Yeah, we suck.
23:01
Um, but I was thinking about them in particular and I think it was a little bit of both with both of these ladies. I
23:07
think we had ceiling issues with both of them. But I think we also had just fundamental disagreement like my way is
23:14
better or I'm smarter than the system. Oh, poor Dr. Kuba or poor Bethany. They
23:20
haven't thought of this, but I'm going to do it this way instead. And so I
23:26
think some of it was ceiling and and not being able to execute and some of it was
23:33
it boiled down to attitude. And I think attitude can reveal itself in a lot of different ways. These ladies that I'm
23:38
referring to now with my other client, I think it's more of like, no, this works for us. This is the way we're going to
23:44
do it. More of a defiance almost about
23:49
the system. I think of these two ladies um from last summer in your team and I
23:56
don't think it was defiant. I think it was more of a I'm really smart and I'm
24:04
going to do it this way and I think it's going to be impressive that I've done it this way. Even though we've talked about
24:10
it being ABC, I'm going to show them the light and they're going to see that DE and F
24:16
is way better. And so I think it was almost like a ego. I think it was, but I
24:23
think it was defiance was at the base of it. I think if we had gotten past that, cuz I think I think there were plenty of
24:29
times where we showed them that it was wrong. Your way was not better and they still were like, but but that to me it's
24:36
like you were defiant in that you were going to find a way that you were going to be right cuz you don't want to do it
24:41
my way. Yeah. And that's what I'm like, okay, I would get it if you were like poor Kuba. Like she just doesn't know.
24:47
I'm gonna show her a better way. Thousand% go for it. The problem with that is I've pulled Bethany in. Yeah.
24:53
And Beth is not like I am in a bubble and I know dentistry and I don't know the rest of this stuff as well. I mean,
24:59
I've know what I know over the years. But then you've got the woman. It's her profession. Her business is based on
25:05
consulting and coming up with these problems and solutions to these problems. And you think you're smarter
25:12
than her. Oh, and also because it's never you and me just making a decision.
25:18
We pull other team members in. Yeah. You are smarter than all of us put together.
25:23
It is it boils down to I don't want to do this another way. I want to do it my way. Yeah. And then you convince
25:31
yourself that you're doing it your way cuz it's better and smarter. This is what you do. You're tasked at the front desk and of course I know what our
25:36
patients want and don't want. Yeah. And honestly, I went along with it for a while because I was like, you know, you
25:42
have years of experience. Both of them had years of experience in other offices and all of that. And ultimately, what it
25:49
came down to was y'all do not want to do it our way. Yeah. Period. And so we they
25:57
were out and we've been chugging along since. So it really is, especially when
26:02
you're almost a year on the other side of it. It is so refreshing to know I
26:10
was, you know, in your practice this day and up at the front pulling reports and I I've told you this before, but with
26:17
your current team that you have in place, I'm often struck by how smooth it
26:23
is and effortless sometimes to the point where it's jarring where I'm like, "Okay, we
26:29
have way less people than we've ever had at the front." like it should feel
26:35
chaotic or traumatic or and it's just smooth. And so it it does beg the
26:43
question like if you've got a team member that just you feel like you've
26:49
invested time and training and energy and it needs to be a relentless amount
26:55
of training. You know, I've said this before on the podcast. I know I say this to you all the time. I'm the last one to
27:01
recommend termination. It is my least I I to me there's so many other solutions
27:07
before we get to that. And I think consultants typically have a bad rap for going in and being like you need to fire
27:13
that one, you need to fire that one. That one's not going to last. That is not me at all. I'm like, I want 100%
27:18
retention on here until I beat the horse dead and then I realize, oh man, I I
27:25
there's no resuscitation resuscitation. Then I'm like, okay, we need to make a change.
27:31
So, for me to be able to sit here, you know, almost a year later with you
27:37
thinking about this subject matter, one thing that I do want to pat ourselves on the back for is we beat that horse until
27:44
it was dead. I mean, it was not without an extensive amount of effort and
27:51
conversations and you pulling in additional training and you sending them to this online resource and let's pull
27:58
back together, let's recap. I mean, it was we we to go with the the metaphor
28:04
that we're still using. I mean, we were just CPRing it to the best of our ability to try to get this working with
28:11
these two ladies. And eventually, we had to call it and go, "This is not going to
28:16
work." To the point that it took a leap of faith from you even where you're like, I I I'm not there yet. But you
28:23
went with the idea that we needed to move on. And so to see on the other side
28:28
that you've got two ladies on your team that are
28:34
smart, quick to implement, on top of things. In all honesty, we haven't had
28:40
to do a ton of training with them, which is really remarkable when you think about the
28:47
amount of training that we had to put into those other two ladies. God. Yes. and to be on the other side of it and
28:52
there's just less time that I'm I'm having to spend with them. I was able to hit a scheduling training thing that you
28:59
wanted me to discuss with them today. I was able to hit that during patient care today. Turn around. It was like a three
29:05
minute conversation was like, "Hey ladies, by the way, this baby column and I was able to address that real quickly.
29:11
That was something you'd asked me to address. I was able to talk about it within minutes and by the way turned
29:16
around to go back to the schedule to look at something later and already saw the changes that I had asked them to
29:22
make like immediate implementation and so you go what's the difference I think it boils down to once again ceiling and
29:31
attitude I think ceiling you can we can figure out ceiling in most situations
29:37
not all but most situations the ceiling we can reroute the expectations I think
29:42
attitude ude is where we really run into the issues of they they're smart enough
29:49
they can get it but they're going to continue to resist me on this and so I
29:54
don't think that that's lost a lost cause I think sometimes we can reroute
30:00
that and change that and maybe that's pulling in a different perspective maybe that's pulling in a team lead to have a
30:07
conversation maybe that is supplying additional training or resources or getting them in contact with other
30:13
offices who have done it in the way that you've asked that you're asking them to do it. So, it could be just exposure to
30:19
other people besides just the practice owner or just the manager or just the consultant that's coming in. Um, but at
30:26
some point I guess that to me, like looking back on it, I think normally I do agree with that and and and I
30:31
probably do that still more than I should, but I think I I have at least
30:37
four people I can think of in the last less than a year that I'm like, why was
30:42
I rerouting and working so hard on that? And I think I think I was because to me, I thought I was the failure. Like I
30:50
thought I'm the one who I haven't shown you enough. I haven't talked to you enough. I haven't given you enough
30:55
examples. Like you you must be not getting there because I haven't done my
31:01
part. And now looking back at it, I'm like all four of these people. Um some
31:06
are that that still work with me, but still four people that I'm kind of going, dude, I should have stopped
31:13
trying so long ago. Um, so I think, you know, I I I guess I don't have a
31:20
definitive whatever with it, but to me, I'm like, if I've tried three different types of ways to train you and we're still not getting it, like in my mind,
31:26
that might be my limit at that point. I'm not going to try eight anymore. I'm going with three. And and whichever it
31:33
is, whether it's a ceiling or an attitude, three should be enough. And if it's not, then I need to work on plan B.
31:39
And that's either am I cutting you loose? Am I switching your role? Am I bringing in somebody else which means
31:45
that we're giving you other things that you are good at or does it mean you're going down to part-time and I might lose you? But
31:52
um I think again that's what worries me about the example you just gave is I feel like part of me goes sitting with
31:59
those two and going, "Okay, I'm not happy with this and y'all are not doing what you need to be doing and you think
32:05
your way is better and I find that highly disrespectful. Are you going to get on or not?" Yeah. But I don't think
32:11
that's going to do anything because they're probably going to go, "No, no, no. We'll do it your way. We do better." Or they'll come back and say, "No, your
32:16
way is stupid." Like, yeah, I don't see it going great either way. I almost feel
32:21
like it almost needs to be shaken up where you do bring in somebody else. Whether it's a clinical team member and
32:29
and now they're like, "Wait, why is Sally up here with us? That's my job."
32:34
Yeah. I'm letting Sally take a try at this now. Mhm. Sally, you've you've read
32:40
the training materials. I know we role played back there. You you get in there and all the rest of these patients I
32:45
call with Delta. You called Sally up here. Well, don't y'all need her in the back? We do. We're going to figure it
32:50
out. But I need somebody to implement this my way. This is what we're doing. Now, I know that's easier said than
32:56
done. Maybe you don't have a Sally that gets it any better. Maybe you can't spare the person, but I think that would
33:01
be my next suggestion is think outside the box and figure out who and how you can get in there. Yeah. to do that part.
33:08
Or if it's just gets to a certain part, maybe you're outsourcing the rest. Yeah. Maybe it's like never mind. I don't have
33:13
somebody here who can handle insurance effectively. I'm now tagging in XYZ company to come do this because And if
33:20
the team is like, wait a minute, that was our job. Yeah, but it wasn't being done. And I didn't have any other
33:26
resources. Bethany had already I had already it seemed like we were just not moving anywhere. So now I had to think
33:32
outside the box to get in resources to do it the way we need it done. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that little bit of
33:38
fear is just enough to reduce an attitude. Or maybe they're
33:44
totally thrilled that they don't have to be the bad guy anymore. Now they're doing other tasks and yeah, you're spending more money doing it on this.
33:50
But if they're proving their value up something else, hey man, that might be a win-win. Absolutely. But if
33:56
they kind of sit and fester and hump f and they're not doing anything else, well then I think you've got a well then
34:02
you've got clarity. Yeah. you've at least got an answer on this is this person is tr showing his or her true
34:08
colors. So now now I know what to do. Um yeah, I think that's a great lit litmus
34:14
test to go. Let's bring in ideally I would say an additional team member
34:19
would be the first place to start. Somebody that you start crossraining that can get a sec, you
34:26
know, second set of eyes on it. And then if you don't have that available, that's where there's plenty of remote companies. we were just at the AAPD. I
34:33
mean, that exhibit hall had at least four or five remote worker companies. So, it's like maybe that's a path that
34:39
you look into. But yeah, I think something just to shake it up if it's truly an attitude issue or change the
34:46
role. Quit beating your head against the wall is the main thing. You're going to wear yourself out in the process and
34:53
you're going to become really frustrated and bitter if you keep doing the same thing. Thanks for joining the
34:58
conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we also hope that you're
35:05
walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice. We value your feedback, so
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