NOAA's Ports Program: The Vanguard of Modern Maritime Safety with Christopher DiVeglio

Prepare to embark on a remarkable voyage! What if your guide was Christopher DiVeglio, program manager at NOAA, as he expertly navigates through the ocean of real-time oceanographic data? With him, we uncover how this treasure trove of information is instrumental in maritime safety and efficiency, while simultaneously shaping our understanding of coastal environments. Christopher's personal journey from weather enthusiast to NOAA is as fascinating as it is informative, lending insights into the diverse programs and projects within this dynamic organization.

Get ready to dive into the future of port systems! The advancements in technology and their transformative impact on port system capabilities is something you cannot afford to miss. NOAA's pioneering efforts, from meteorological sensors to tidal current data, are all aimed at refining navigational efficiency and safety. As we navigate the changing tide of the shipping industry, learn how ports are collaborating to stay afloat. We also delve into the implications of changes in maritime ecosystems, discussing potential impacts of large ships, sea level changes, and how technology aids dredging projects.

Lastly, for those aspiring to join the federal workforce, Christopher's insights are a compass guiding your journey. His experiences, from meteorology to the future of the Ports Program within NOAA, are windows into a world of captivating opportunities. Listen closely as he shares his pride from managing programs while remaining hands-on with science and the joy of engaging with partners and stakeholders. To cap it off, he offers a glimpse into the future features of the Ports Program. So, fasten your seatbelts and set sail with us, because where we're headed, data meets the deep sea!

Christopher DiVeglio
NOAA PORTS
NOAA

Merrill Charette

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome aboard the Ship Shape podcast, your ultimate destination for marine wisdom and expertise. Our skilled crew, comprised of top-boating journalists and experts, is committed to delivering informative and captivating content week after week. We're eager to connect with and learn from our fellow mariners, and we encourage you to share our podcast with your friends. Remember, word of mouth is our lifeblood, and if you enjoy an episode, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. By doing so, you're helping us forge a robust community of mariners who can learn, collaborate and exchange their experiences out on the water.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Welcome to the Ship Shape podcast, the podcast dedicated to maritime insights and expertise. Today, we're diving deep into the world of oceanographic data collection and its transformative impact on maritime safety and efficiency. Our esteemed guest is Christopher DiVeglio, the program manager of NOAA's acclaimed ports program. This initiative, standing for physical oceanographic real-time system, is a beacon for mariners, offering real-time data on water levels, currents and other vital oceanographic information. Under Christopher's guidance, ports has not only enhanced maritime navigation, but it has also played a pivotal role in shaping our understanding of coastal environments. Join us as we chart a course of this remarkable program, exploring its origins, achievements and the vision that propels it forward. Your two co-hosts today are Meryl Stratum of Live Abort on Atashing, toshiba 36 in Boston, and Tee hey guys the love Hattie.

Speaker 3: 1:49

here I'm aboard my 40-foot powerboat in Virginia and we're going to be chatting with Chris about the ports program today.

Speaker 4: 1:57

So welcome to the show, Chris. I appreciate you having me on. Thanks so much.

Speaker 3: 2:01

Where are you recording this from?

Speaker 4: 2:02

I'm actually right in the Washington DC area, so I live and work right here northwest Washington DC and at the NOAA headquarters in Silver Spring, maryland.

Speaker 2: 2:14

So before all of this you were in meteorology. You went to a school for that and tell me about how you even got into NOAA and what was the progression of your career.

Speaker 4: 2:25

Sure. So I would say that I'm certainly a self-proclaimed weather nerd and we know that there are many of them out there. Since I was really little I've been into the weather and the ocean, spending a lot of time as a child growing up near the beach in New York City. So I was very fortunate to be one of those people who really knew what they wanted to do at a fairly young age. So growing up I was very passionate or borderline obsessed with weather and watching the weather and also storm situations along the coastline.

Speaker 4: 2:56

So I followed that dream and I went to school and got a degree in meteorology up in New England Plymouth State University in New Hampshire and graduated from there, went into operational meteorology following that, where I was actually working for a private weather forecast and company in New Jersey, and I was there for about five years and took a great leap of faith to come work for NOAA about 10 years ago now, the position that I originally started with. I've been able to wear a lot of different hats in my role at NOAA and I'll explain a little bit where we sit at NOAA, but I'm really excited and proud to be a employee of NOAA within the National Ocean Service for the past 10 years. So to circle back, I would definitely say ocean and weather, passion. Of course those two things certainly go hand in hand land and sea interaction and lots of drivers and impacts on each other.

Speaker 2: 3:54

One of the fascinating things that I find about NOAA is how many different projects and programs NOAA is working on and it comes from such a depth of talent, coming from so many different segments of the industry. I run into people that were into the fishing industry, that got into NOAA. Now we have meteorology and getting into NOAA. So can you talk a little bit about some of the other programs that NOAA has and then specifically talk about the ports program?

Speaker 4: 4:22

So NOAA, as you mentioned, is under a big umbrella which falls under the Department of Commerce, and within NOAA there are several different what they call line offices, and those do range from fisheries to National Ocean Service, where I am, as well as the Weather Service, office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, among a couple of others. So, drilling down a little bit further, within the National Ocean Service there are actually eight program offices, and the particular program office that I sit in is NOAA's Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services. We also commonly refer to that as co-ops. But also within the Ocean Service there are other program offices, like NOAA's Office of Coast Survey, who develops and maintains all of the highly used nautical charts. We have Office for Coastal Management. We have other offices as well that deal with marine sanctuaries.

Speaker 4: 5:18

So, like you said, there's a lot of great science as part of NOAA's, not just the Ocean Service but, as I mentioned, noaa in the big picture. So there's a lot of employees across all of these different line offices and program offices and a lot of great expertise. So with that I'll speak a little bit more about our program office Co-ops. As I mentioned, we're really known as the authoritative source for timely and reliable tide, water level, current and other oceanographic information. So the work that we do within our program office supports the nation's economy at safeguarding coastal communities with available oceanographic information that's accessible by anyone, anytime, any place, and we serve a couple of different mission areas. The program that I oversee supports safe and efficient navigation, but overlaps with some of our other mission areas that we are supporting as well.

Speaker 3: 6:14

Nice and Chris, have you always been with the boards program or did you transition within NOAA?

Speaker 4: 6:19

So that's a great question. All the 10 years that I've been with NOAA, I have been in this program office. I've been in this role now a little bit more than four years, but when I started here within Co-ops inside the Ocean Service, I was on a couple of different teams. I was much more on the data side. So I started off on the data analysis side. We have very robust observing networks all around the United States water levels, currents, meteorological data and a lot of that data gets certified and verified on a monthly basis. It goes into all of our products that we put out there. So monthly observations, daily observations those things go into a wide breadth of products.

Speaker 4: 7:01

After some time on the data processing side, I actually moved over to the data monitoring side, so focusing more on the real-time aspects and supporting some of our other operational teams with remotely troubleshooting or diagnosing data quality issues within our observing systems. Because those data sets are being used for real time critical decision making, it's important that we ensure that only quality data gets out there. So I was also supporting our data watch standards, who are on 24-7. So it was interesting to be on that side, that part of the pipeline on the observing side but also coming from another side of data analysis. I then went back to the data analysis side for a while and certainly upped my game in coding and some more in-depth analysis type work. Then, as I mentioned, a little more than four years ago, I moved over to the program management side and with the NOAA Ports program, which stands for the NOAA Physical Oceanographic Real-Time System. It's a very operational program and there's a lot of ties to several or really all of our divisions here within our program office.

Speaker 3: 8:06

Interesting and how does without getting too much detail. But how do you guys collect the data? Is it on buoys? Is it drones? How does it happen?

Speaker 4: 8:18

That's a great question. So with co-ops it's a very operational organization. We operate more than 500 real-time oceanographic observing stations from really 500 individual observation stations. So most of our gauges are along the coastline, but we do have some gauging that's just a little bit offshore or inside waterway. So all of our water level stations are land side or they're on the land, but of course observing tides or also we have a large component of our water level network that's also in the Great Lakes.

Speaker 4: 8:53

We do have meteorological stations that are often co-located with water level, but we have the ability to install those and include them in our networks that are either out on range markers or lighthouses or islands, out in bays and estuaries.

Speaker 4: 9:07

And in addition to that we measure current data and we have the ability to mount, to appear horizontally, looking out into a channel. But we also leverage the use of deployable buoys or the use of Coast Guard aids to navigation where we can affix current meters to. So, again, most of our gauging does take place much closer to shore and that's supporting safe and efficient navigation in and around seaports and along the coastlines. In addition, I know I'm going to speak here a little bit about our NOAA ports program, but I really want to mention that a large part of our work supports NOAA's National Water Level Observation Network, and we call that the NLON, and that includes over 200 real-time observing stations that are funded by NOAA and those are long-term stations that allow us to collect long-term data series and support datum and vertical reference control along the coastline. So some of our long-time NLONs have data series well over 100 years, and then the program that I oversee is a little more concentrated in its specialty, but it's built on the foundation of the NLON.

Speaker 2: 10:18

So throughout this you've mentioned navigation. Can we talk about the origins of this program? What was navigation like prior to ports?

Speaker 4: 10:30

Yeah, so I will back it up to where the program was inspired by and unfortunately that was a really unfortunate incident. So, as I mentioned, you know, water level data collection, the importance of tools to aid mariners have been around for a while. But as shipping has grown in and around a lot of seaports obviously many ports over the last several years have been growing, so ports itself was inspired by an incident all the way back in 1980, and it was actually a disastrous event. It was a freighter that alighted with the old Sunshine Skyway bridge. So that's when a vessel hits an object that's stationary.

Speaker 4: 11:09

And this was all the way back in May of 1980 at the entrance to Tampa Bay, and that freighter that was coming into Tampa Bay was coming in during a really adverse weather situation.

Speaker 4: 11:19

There were squalls and really reduced visibility in a wind situation. Unfortunately, when that freighter hit the bridge it actually significantly damaged it and caused one of the bridge spans to collapse and there were injuries and certainly deaths that resulted from that. So in the years following that incident there were several safety assessments and reports about that incident that were done and one of the major things that came out of the reports tied to that incident and another similar incident around the same time in the same area was the need for real time observations. If there were available observations, as that ship was transiting into Tampa Bay, could that have avoided the incident that occurred? So with that it was about 10 years after the incident where the first NOAA port system was established right there in Tampa Bay. So since then the program has grown exponentially and I can certainly talk a little bit more about the history and the growth of the program. But that incident, as unfortunate as it was, really is what inspired the inception of the NOAA ports program.

Speaker 2: 12:25

It's always surprising that disasters are what really sparked change.

Speaker 4: 12:29

Yeah, it's always reacting to a situation, and again, as unfortunate as it was. So, with that said, that was the first system all the way back in 1991. Now, more than 30 years later, we've grown to almost 40 of those individual port systems. And what makes ports unique is it's a partnership program. It's not a wholly owned federal program. It's a partnership program between NOAA and local maritime stakeholders, and our partners are diverse. We partner with sea ports, marine exchanges, pilot groups, state agencies like a Department of Emergency Management or Environmental Protection. We also have a growing partnership with the Department of Defense, particularly the Navy, for seaside military installations, but also the private sector, like the oil and gas industry, wind energy companies now. So there's part of the ports program that is funded by NOAA, but a lot of the drive, the requirements and the growth of the program can be attributed to our partners, and many of them have been longstanding partners. So that is what makes the program very successful.

Speaker 3: 13:31

So the program has been going on for, like you said, almost 30 years and you've been involved in it for the last 10. Can you tell us a little bit about just what the sort of changes have come about in the program itself, maybe even in terms of data collection or reporting or the equipment you guys use?

Speaker 4: 13:49

Absolutely. Yeah, there's certainly been a lot of growth in the technical capabilities. I think when the port system was first stood up, the main data type was concentrations of water level sensors, but also meteorological. But as the program grew, the need for real-time tidal currents data grew, so that it was another data type that was introduced over the years, as well as bridge air gap, which is a really interesting tool that not too many people are familiar with. So bridge air gap measures the distance between a reference point on the bottom of a bridge and the surface of the water, and that lets you know what the available air gap is for vessels that are transiting underneath the bridge, and there are areas that see really large changes in the daily tide. So having several additional feet of clearance at a certain stage of the tide is beneficial for efficient and safe navigation, and NOAA has a really cool short video explaining the air gap tool and how it's used in real time for critical decision making.

Speaker 3: 14:49

For sure. I've been in so many situations where I'm like, ah, am I going to make it? And usually the maps will say how high the clearance is and you have to do a little calculation to figure out. Okay, it's still that. Luckily though, I have a powerboat, merrill has a sailboat, so I bet he deals with it way more.

Speaker 4: 15:06

Exactly so. In addition to those data types, just the flexibilities and the engineering and the infrastructure that we can mount to has also increased a little bit more broadly. So, for instance, when we measure tidal currents, we can do it in a variety of ways. One of them I mentioned earlier is a fixing to a coast guard, aid to navigation and that looks down into the water column and can let you know what the currents are doing at depth, not just the surface. We also employ horizontally mounted current meters that are typically mounted to appear and looking out into a channel. That can let you know what the currents are doing as you move across a channel. And we also mount at times current meters to the sea floor, so we call them bottom mounted, and they're looking up towards the surface and also giving you an idea of what currents are doing throughout the water column. And I'm sure you guys know as mariners, you can have quite a change in speed and direction in a given water column and for deep draft vessels that data is super useful because you know you're dealing with a variety of conditions. In addition to our meteorological suite, you know typical things like wind or air temperature and barometric pressure. We also have ways to measure and estimate what visibility is in a given area. We have a lot of seaports and a lot of areas that have a designated fog season and those, you know, having several fog days can have impacts on seaport operations. So that's another thing that's kind of grown in popularity. And to further add to your response to your question, you know maritime commerce has grown immensely over recent years and there's a lot of competitiveness from seaport to seaport. So everyone's trying to be desirable, everyone's trying to reduce impacts on the supply chain, so it's that but also a lot of larger ships that are calling to do a lots of USC ports.

Speaker 4: 16:58

That Panama Canal expansion, you know, within the past five or 10 years, was a real game changer when it came to allowing much larger vessels to pass through the canal but also to allow a significant reduction in transit time and allowing these what they call post-Penamax vessels to be able to call to a lot more seaports on both the east coast and the west coast.

Speaker 4: 17:21

So those type of things are really what's driving the need for additional real-time gauging, because pilots are commenting hey, you know what, if we're going to bring another class size of a container ship into the seaport, it would be really useful for us to have tidal currents in this part of the channel or, you know, a bridge air gap unit here, because we're coming pretty darn close to the bottom of the bridge. So those tools and the availability of the real-time data is extremely useful for critical decision making and, as I mentioned, we've seen nothing but exponential growth over the years. Even port systems that we've had in place for many years through long standing partnerships. There's a lot of changes and enhancements that are being requested to those systems just because of changes to vessel transit habits, and I can certainly elaborate on that as well.

Speaker 2: 18:08

Well, I definitely want to ask and you've mentioned it the collaboration and really this co-op and working with different organizations. And also when you mentioned in the story about how ports are competing with each other. We did an interview with one of the directors of Massport and you know they're in a situation where they're trying to work with other ports in order to collaborate. So everyone wins because you know, the shipping industry is changing greatly. So, when it comes to ports and collaborating, are you finding that a lot of it is? They just need this Like how are these collaborations working? You know, how do you reach out to these people and really bridge that gap?

Speaker 4: 18:47

Yeah. So I will say, just given the partnership model that we have had for the program for many years, because our partners have skin in the game financially, they also have skin in the game when it comes to the requirements. These systems are all built to the needs of the users and, as you guys know, as Mariners, every waterways different. Every seaport is different in its size, shape, its navigation challenges. So we'll offer, from the Noah side, our oceanographic expertise. But generally when people approach us they already have identified hey, you know, we know we really need, you know, wind observations in this spot. We know we need, you know, a current meter in this spot to observe current, so I don't need to really go out and sell it.

Speaker 4: 19:32

Port is pretty well known in the maritime community, especially the commercial maritime community. So more often than not people are coming to us because they're hearing about the value of the system through word of mouth or knowing that a neighboring seaport already has a port system installed. So it makes my job easier because a lot of people are coming to us and I can proudly and openly speak about the value of the system. And so that's the thing. And I also want to touch a little bit, if you guys don't mind, just given the length of the time the program has been around.

Speaker 4: 20:03

There's been a lot of studies that have been done over the years that speak to the safety results and impacts from having a port system in place.

Speaker 4: 20:12

So there have been many studies that were done looking at statistics of spills or collisions, collisions and groundings prior to a NOAA port system being installed, but then looking at the years following that system being installed and all of those situations showed significant reductions on the order of 40 or more percent on ship groundings, property damage, injuries, even deaths, and along the lines of about 20% reduction in oil spills that resulted in collisions and grounding. So it's obviously the real-time component in the critical decision making but the results of proven increases to safe navigation with having these systems in place. So I speak to our partners and our stakeholders regularly and I'm hearing things all the time about how valuable a particular data point is on the map. Or hey, we know when we have a certain vessel type that's coming to this port, we know that this current meter or this wind observation is key. So it's a lot of positive impacts from the program over the years that really kind of help to sell itself.

Speaker 3: 21:24

So, chris, I wanted to build off that sort of, because you do mention that it makes things safer. My question is sort of about, as I don't know, human being and species in general. Like over reliance and technology scares me a little as well. So, for example, I just did this long trip from North Carolina to Maine and we were really relying on AIS, for example, and it was almost like if it wasn't on the chart then it didn't exist, and I don't know if that was true just for us or for the giant ships that were crossing our path. And so same thing in this case is that if a unit or data is out of whack, will it even register in time? How do you guys get stuff like that? How do we sort of keep that over reliance and technology from getting a foothold?

Speaker 4: 22:11

So without being a master mariner, I can't speak from that first hand, but just in my engagement with our various partners and stakeholders. It's kind of a generational thing. You have a lot of mariners who are a little bit older, who might have more experience, who didn't have these tools at their disposal, so they're used to making decisions based on charted bridge clearances or certain things on an article chart or just knowing a waterway. Nowadays it's a little bit different. I'm hearing more from younger or a little more green mariners where they are more reliant on this type of stuff, but I think it's a matter of being used to it. So if you have access to these tools and the data sets, it's probably a little bit more. You know. It's just. It's more about what you're used to.

Speaker 3: 22:57

As far as I'm aware, In the beginning, you'd mentioned that you needed to get across good quality data. How are you ensuring that it's 100% top notch on the ball every time?

Speaker 4: 23:07

So our equipment that is maintained out there as part of ports but even part of our Enlon, it is equipment and engineering that has to be able to stand up to harsh marinate conditions. So we have very strict and stringent equipment requirements for all of our different sensor types. So when it comes to water level observations and types of current meters, we can't just put out every brand or maker model. So there's that on the equipment side. All of our data that we have out there we ingest into our database. And when we ingest it directly into our database, that also allows us to be able to control the data dissemination, so we can shut data off or shut something off if we see suspect data going out. Now we're in the age of a lot of great automated QC tools. However, we have watch standards that are working 24 7365, that are also doing human visual checks and have the ability to turn off dissemination. Again, because this data is being used for critical decision making, we want to ensure it's on us to ensure that suspect data is not making its way out there.

Speaker 4: 24:16

So there are times, like anything, where things go out of service or a need of repair or replacement, and our partners, at least with the Ports program are usually very supportive and understanding that sometimes things take a couple days to get back online, but we also strive for, you know, greater than 95% data reliability.

Speaker 4: 24:36

Now, in addition to the data monitoring side, within our program office we have various divisions and we have a whole engineering division that is involved with the design side, metadata, configuration of equipment in the database, but also an entire field division that's out there maintaining and managing the operations and maintenance, and they don't necessarily have always have an easy job, depending on the conditions that they're working in. In addition to our field folks, you know the ingestion side we have a big information technology division. They are making sure that with all of our observing systems, everything's running seamlessly. We're able to ingest that data, we're able to put it out into our web products as well. So there's a lot of different aspects and different divisions that are contributing to the success of co-ops and the Ports program and our mission work.

Speaker 1: 25:30

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Speaker 2: 26:13

In the age where technology and data are rapidly shaping our understanding of the world? How do you believe our relationship with nature and the environment is evolving with all of this data you're collecting?

Speaker 4: 26:26

I think it's pretty robust. I will say that, as a government agency, noaa certainly has environmental compliance and protection at its forefront Every time someone touches a gauge along the water or has to get into the water or do an underwater dive. There's much larger environmental compliance standards that we have to follow within the ocean service. We always try to keep our footprint as clean as possible, but also when we're in the event we have to remove a station completely, we always try to put it back in its original condition. Of course, the engineering side and the different types of infrastructure that our equipment is mounted to, that's going to vary. The footprint for one station might be a little bit more than the other. That's the environmental compliance side. But also mammals and all the other types of considerations, endangered species that all falls under that environmental compliance umbrella that we have to hold to a very, very high standard.

Speaker 3: 27:22

I want to build on that. Can we identify any patterns or anomalies that might hint in larger global shifts in the maritime ecosystems?

Speaker 4: 27:31

Within the ecosystem. I mean, I think I don't know if this is what you guys are getting at, but a lot of things that I'm hearing and this is a bit of a controversial topic but the large ships that are coming in out of a lot of seaports but also having interact with Increase well populations that are along the coastline, so that's not really work that we do, but a lot of the maritime stakeholders and partners that are part of the no reports program there concerned about speed and interaction with with the whales and Having to abide by limits and stuff like that. So that's something that's changing. The other thing, not so much from the from the mammal or the creature side, but is, of course, development, offshore wind farms and what are the more happening offshore. There's a lot of increased maritime commerce and changes to vessel transits that are coming into a lot of seaports that are supporting those offshore wind projects.

Speaker 3: 28:22

You use the system to, like predict or maybe mitigate the effects of rising sea levels on the coastal communities and their infrastructures.

Speaker 4: 28:33

Yeah, so this is a little bit outside my portfolio but certainly a very large component of the mission work that we're doing within our program office. We have an ever growing coastal hazards branch and there's a lot of great products that are coming out of that, with the ability to track and maintain long term data series from several of our long time and land stations, or even some of our long time water level stations that are part of ports. That allows us to look at longer data sets and derive trends. And of course, as you can imagine, there's a lot of changes from region to region in those trends, not just because of changing sea level, but also in some areas to do subsidence of the land. So In some of those areas you're almost seeing like an accelerated change in sea level, which isn't favorable.

Speaker 4: 29:18

So there's a couple of ways to tie that. There's, of course, the hazards monitoring component of it, but there's also a lot of things that are beginning to be tied into Climate ready seaports and a lot of our partners, stakeholders are have that at the forefront. You know there's their fortune to have a concentration of gauging in and around their seaport To monitor these changes, whether it's in a daily sense or weekly or monthly sense, but maritime commerce is vital for all of the goods and services that we're using every day and having impacts due to a flooding situation or long term changes in sea level and how that can impact seaport infrastructure in the long term is something that I think a lot of areas are starting to think about, sort of a climate ready ports type of component. So that's a really broad topic, but it's definitely something that people are thinking about.

Speaker 3: 30:06

Can you change that a bit more, though? What's the climate ready, sort of thing.

Speaker 4: 30:11

Yeah. So again, you know seaport infrastructure that might have been built years ago that can't handle when the tide exceeds a certain level. So those seaports are doing things to upgrade and build up their infrastructure and their peers and their births and stuff like that, especially if they're in a situation where they're exceeding their flood thresholds for criteria on a fairly regular basis and you don't necessarily need to have these flooding situations that are they're not always just attributed to a storm. There's a lot of them that are tied to just certain times of the month with higher than normal astronomical tides and are seeing increase in frequency in what they call nuisance flooding or even fair weather flooding situation. So that's kind of one component of it.

Speaker 4: 30:56

Our water level data is also used to support some of the dredging projects that are going on around the harbors. All of our water level data has to be referenced and checked that the equipment's remaining stable. But we use what they call title date. So you know, mean low or low, mean sea level, mean higher, high water. All those data are referenced very regularly by engineering firms or when people are doing surveys of harbors and waterways. So there's a lot of tools that are derived from the observations, of the concentrated observations in and around the seaports that can be used for future planning of the situation. So, in addition to the water levels, obviously having access to real time wind and visibility observations are crucial during more of a storm situation. But there's a lot of things that people are saying that they're fortunate to have those types of data sets handy to them, and a lot of the seaports that I'm speaking to are doing various things, you know, with dredging and building up islands and berms to protect the harbor, using dredge spoils.

Speaker 4: 31:59

We've had a hearing. Seaports that are using have integrated technology to handle stormwater runoff and not allowing it to go right into the bay or the harbor, but to actually so to collect that stormwater runoff and reuse it in different aspects, so it's reducing pollution. So there's a couple of things that we're hearing about when it comes to climate ready ports. Of course there's also from the emission or the green shipping side of things. You know, having some of this.

Speaker 4: 32:26

The data sets that we put out there are helping to contribute to more efficient transit. So you know if the tide to the currents are doing a certain thing and moving slowly, but there's a large ship that's being docked that's going to drive the number of tugboat assist that you have to put on this particular ship. And, of course, the more tugboats you have you're probably putting a little bit more pollution in the air. So I can tell you that a lot of our partners and stakeholders definitely relying on not just the observations but the model data to really help them Make efficient transit planning decisions. You know you want to get to the birth as quickly as possible, to a lot of dollars at stake, but also you know the weight of a vessel in the car that are being utilized and transported. So building a climate ready nation is certainly part of what is larger strategic plan that we're working under over the next couple of years.

Speaker 2: 33:16

So, obviously, when you're sitting there with all this data in front of you, right and ultimately, data is what tells the story of the past and kind of what the trends are of the future. What surprising insights have you run into personally with the data that you've collected? What's been shocking?

Speaker 4: 33:34

So the data that we have is publicly available, so not just available to the paying partners, but it's available, so oftentimes being used by the primary stakeholders the mariners. But the concentration of data is useful for forecasting. So our partners of the National Weather Service are using the data, recreational boaters are using it and as well as academia for research. So all of our data that's been collected, as long as that net quality assurance is available out there. But from an anecdotal side, I think one of the biggest things, even just in the couple years of my position, that I find the most fascinating is almost every one of the seaports and it doesn't have to be a major depot or port, but almost every seaport is going through some sort of dredging project. Right now that's really being driven by larger vessels that are coming in. So years ago it was sort of a not within reach to have a 40 or a 42 foot channel, but now a lot of these seaports are dredging to 48 and even 50 feet, which again 10 or 20 years ago that would have been kind of unheard of. But I think the inspiration for the dredging has to do with the seaports trying to squeeze out every inch, which in reality means every dollar bill of a certain class of ship that's coming into their port. Of course, having that available underheal clearance, but also available air gap, probably makes it more desirable.

Speaker 4: 34:55

But when you're limited, in situations where the channel's not dredged to a certain depth or you're constrained by a bridge, that is going to lead to challenges and more careful planning. But in conversations there's a lot of our pilot groups that we collaborate with closely. I'm hearing them on these large deep draft container ships. They're coming in within 18 inches or 24 inches of the bottom of a bridge, which I can imagine would be scary when you're the local pilot on that ship. But there's also a lot of longer term planning that goes into that. So I think to me that's the most fascinating. They're really pushing boundaries in a lot of areas. However, they feel that they have a leg to stand on, and having these data sets available to them are a little bit more comforting and something they can point to for their decision making.

Speaker 3: 35:42

Hmm. So, chris, just talking about the future a little, then, and you might have seen this already tell us what you think, but what's the role of artificial intelligence and machine learning in the ports program?

Speaker 4: 35:53

So there's still a lot of manual aspects of our program but I think moving forward, being able to collaborate with other NOAA program offices and initiatives to maybe allow some things that are a little more automated from gliders or uncrewed systems, data sets from them to be pulled into ports or the larger NOAA precision marine navigation initiative.

Speaker 4: 36:14

So it's tough to say. One thing that we're trying to do within our program office is all of our water level data that we're collecting on a monthly basis, which is over 300 stations that are part of either NOAA Enlon or ports. We also still have a manual monthly processing and quality control, quality assurance of those data sets, and we're in the process of developing some automated tools that will allow us to analyze and verify and validate those data sets on a monthly basis, and that's not to put people out of work but allow them to be utilized in other areas for other deeper research. So at least internally can we speak to our program office. That's one of the first things that we're looking at. But we have a lot of capabilities to automate various routines for our derived products that are being put out there.

Speaker 2: 37:00

And say someone's listening to this podcast right now and wants to eventually get into what you've put yourself into. What advice would you give over this long career that you've had within this program? What are the avenues to get into?

Speaker 4: 37:15

Sure. So there's the federal workforce as a whole, I think, still trying to attract younger talent and, as I mentioned earlier, even within NOAA. I think within NOAA, there's a lot of pride of the people that work there. To be honest with you and there's to me. I think there's something for everyone. It's not just science, but it's also the marketing and communication side, there's the social science side of it, there's the biological side, but also all business operations with financial and contracts and all that. So people need to realize that government is a really good place to work, because you're really working on behalf of all of our taxpayers and a lot of this data is publicly available.

Speaker 4: 37:51

So, moving back, though, I would say for people certainly don't hesitate to face a challenge and follow your dream. I'll speak specifically to me with meteorology. There's a lot of really tough coursework in meteorology, but I stuck through it and I think that it was worth it. So I would also encourage internship opportunities. Various NOAA program offices and line offices do a lot of outreach when it comes to careers or trying to target younger students in the STEM fields. I would definitely say take advantage of any opportunities. If it's a shadowing opportunity or an intern opportunity, that will certainly help you later on when it comes into this. But don't be afraid, don't be shy to ask questions. That would be certainly my advice.

Speaker 3: 38:36

I want to build on that some more, chris. I mean, you've been doing this for so long. What personal lesson or insight maybe from meteorology, maybe from the sports program would you offer to people? Or maybe you wish more people just understood or appreciated.

Speaker 4: 38:50

I think what I enjoy, the position that I'm in, is a little bit different. It's a program management position, which there's plenty of program managers in government, but I feel very fortunate in my role because I get to interact with all of the operational teams within the divisions that are in my program office and because ports the main focus there is, real-time observations there's that tie to a lot of our operational teams and workflow. So I still feel like I get to keep my hand in the science, even though I'm managing more things on the administrative side. I'm doing a lot to collaborate with and support our operational team. So I get spoiled where I get to see the science. But on the other side of the coin, just hearing and engaging regularly with our partners and stakeholders is always very rewarding for me.

Speaker 4: 39:36

I think a lot of our users and partners are really happy. They actually feel like that. They have the support from the government agencies that are supporting navigation. So I'm often a go-to person for that. So I think I'm proud in this position and what I'm doing. I'm very proud of the Ports program for sure, and I think NOAA should be as well. I can't take all the credit for it because I've been in this role for many years, but I've really gotten to meet a lot of different people in the maritime community pilots of different size ships and terminal operators and folks who work with seaports and state agencies so I will say that I've learned a lot being in this position about operations and about the importance of valuable tools and data sets that are contributing to decision-making and overall wider maritime commerce.

Speaker 3: 40:28

And so maybe you can give us some idea of what's in the pipeline either for ports or for NOAA, some new exciting features you guys are working on.

Speaker 4: 40:36

Sure. So at least specifically for the Ports program right now, we've been working through a really large and valuable assessment about the program because we're trying to understand what a fully built out system would look like. So right now we have nearly forwarded these port systems that are serving almost half the top USC ports, and that's top seaports mainly driven by tonnage. So we're trying to get a handle on. You know, if every seaport around the country, no matter their size, the seaport, had some access to ports data or a concentration of data, you know what would their wish list look like, what would their requirements gather and be like. So part of this assessment has been looking at that. It's also looking at the future governance of the program. Do we keep it as a partnership program as it's operated like this for many years, or is there some aspect that could change or transition to be more of a wholly owned federal program? So these workshops and this assessment has been great.

Speaker 4: 41:31

We've had a lot of people come out of the woodwork hearing about ports for the first time, but, of course, a lot of our same stakeholders. So that's something that's been going on right now. I will say we're always fielding incoming interest from people who may want to partner with us. So I can share that. The next system to be fully unveiled is a partnership with the Navy, Pearl Harbor and Honolulu out in Hawaii our first system in Hawaii. We have commitment from Port of Seattle we're going to establish a system out there over the next year or two years and stakeholders that have approached us about potentially partnering and again, that's all based on incoming interest.

Speaker 4: 42:07

So at this point we continue to envision that exponential growth and allowing the NOAA ports program to support more sea ports on the map. Again, it's not just about new ports but also enhancements to existing systems. So there's a lot of projects in the pipeline. At this time I don't foresee any additional data types coming in, but we're always open to hearing what people's perspective is, whether that's ice monitoring or rainfall or other things that might be useful for their monitoring. I don't know if you guys want to hear a little bit more about the types of sensors that we deploy. I think I touched on it a couple of times through here, but certainly a decent coverage of oceanographic and meteorological information.

Speaker 3: 42:48

Sure, if you want to elaborate, go for it.

Speaker 4: 42:50

Yeah, so, as mentioned the water level observations, we are measuring them at a very high frequency. And then our data. It's averaged and disseminated on the web in near real time. So generally, from the time it's collected on the at the station it's on the web and it's available usually within about 10 to 15 minutes. So there's the water levels. I spoke a bit about our current meters and a couple of ways that they're oriented.

Speaker 4: 43:16

We have wind, so that's certainly useful for for transits and along the coast you can have large changes in the wind conditions over the course of a day and storm predictions and stuff Storm predictions Exactly Water temperature, air temperature, air pressure. We also measure sea water conductivity, so that is used to put out what the salinity is. That's useful for buoyancy of the ships and loading of the vessels. I mentioned earlier the challenges with fog and visibility, so we have visibility observations at a handful of our stations. The bridge air gap, which is something we're proud of and there continues to be with the larger ship sizes, is an increasing need of having real-time air gap observations. And then, last but not least, our office itself does not deploy wave buoys, but we have a couple of partnerships where we're able to pull wave data from wave buoys into various port systems. So the waves are crucial for not just the transits, but also when pilots are boarding the vessel in their loading zones as they're coming into various sea ports and harbors.

Speaker 3: 44:27

That's cool, and now that everybody has star link they can just get all your data all the time.

Speaker 2: 44:31

Nice.

Speaker 3: 44:33

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 44:34

So the data is available through various web pages. We don't have an app, but it's certainly very mobile friendly as well. So lots of ways to pull the data and we have a very robust API, which is a programming interface where you can pull our data in real time in a variety of different formats. So there are a lot of people who are their own app developers or have portable pilot units where they're able to pull in those data sets.

Speaker 2: 45:01

Well, I was certainly about to say that when I was playing with the platform itself that holy crap, there was so much data and the reality of Marine is that for the most part, not a lot of people are collecting data. So when I looked at them like clearly every single university has to be using this. So you know? A personal question when I was going through this data and I was looking at the tide rises because there's this area where you can click it and it'll show like up arrows and down arrows and it looked like kind of around the earth's waist was serious increase, but way up north it was decreasing. I have my own thoughts on it, but could you explain kind of the sea rise and then decrease in areas?

Speaker 4: 45:52

Yeah, so what you were likely looking at was our sea level trends page, which we've really been enhancing a lot of our sea level products. So I think what some of that is tied to I mentioned earlier in some cases is changes with the land. It's not just what the water levels are doing, but some changes in the land, subsidence and whatnot. So in some cases you're either seeing what appears to be an accelerated sea level rise, but in some cases almost more of a reversal, where the long term sea level trends in an area, relative to the land, seem like they're actually not as drastic as you would think. And also, you know, the range of the tide in a given area can have a little bit of an influence. You know, if you're thinking about a place like Alaska, most of Alaska has a really, really large tide range, so it's harder to identify and see changes in sea level, you know, on a much smaller scale because you're dealing with areas that have super large tide ranges. Does that answer your question?

Speaker 2: 46:50

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. So. As we wrap this up, where can people find all of this information? Where can people read more about the program?

Speaker 4: 47:00

So our website is one of the sites of all the program offices within the Ocean Service.

Speaker 4: 47:07

So if you go to tidesendcurrencenoagov, that takes you to our main tides and currents page and there's an interactive map and at the top of the page several dropdown menus that will bring you to our various you know mission, mission areas and our different project portfolios. So ports can be found under the what we do. But I want to make sure that people are also looking at other parts of our website as well and looking at, you know, our real time observations, our things that have been collected over the years and other derived products. You know we have a role in the modeling community as well, so we work and maintain several operational forecast systems that are concentrated in various geographic areas. So my team and I can be reached at ports underscore program at noagov and that comes to myself and a couple of folks who are on my team happy to chat about partnering opportunities but also for users and mariners that are looking to understand more about the ports program or our wider products and services.

Speaker 2: 48:14

Awesome. Well, it was an exceptional conversation. I learned so much about this program that, frankly, likely everyone draws all their information off of.

Speaker 1: 48:25

Check back every Tuesday for our latest episode and be sure to like, share and subscribe to shipshakepro.