More Than Medicine

The Social Contagion of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria

January 27, 2024 Dr. Robert E. Jackson / Axa Carnes Season 2 Episode 189
The Social Contagion of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
More Than Medicine
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More Than Medicine
The Social Contagion of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
Jan 27, 2024 Season 2 Episode 189
Dr. Robert E. Jackson / Axa Carnes

In this wide-ranging interview with Axa Carnes, a well-educated counselor and activist, Dr. Jackson explores the new phenomenon of rapid-onset gender dysphoria, which is affecting many teenagers with undiagnosed/untreated psychiatric disorders. This dysphoria is being treated with life-altering drugs and surgeries, the consequences of which Mrs. Carnes will clearly delineate. 

You have to be vetted by leadership to be part of these groups. Parents will have a phone call or a Zoom meeting with a chapter leader before being accepted into the group. 


https://hurtingmomsmendinghearts.org/ (Christian group). They have specific support groups for moms of trans identifying children. They have monthly zoom support meetings and also a great course that I took. 


The groups below are for everyone. Some offer support but also have a wealth of resources and information.

https://www.parentsofrogdkids.com/  State local support.  This organization has sub-groups for boys and parents of adults.

https://genderdysphoriasupportnetwork.com/ - Parent support groups via Zoom. They have meetings for new parents, parents of estranged or medicalized kids, etc.

https://ourduty.group/  Great resource for parents. They don't have support groups. It's more informational.

Other resources for parents

https://www.pittparents.com/ - A substack with hundreds of stories from parents who have a trans identified child or young adult. There are also a few stories from detransitioners. 

NOTE: Christian parents can join these groups and ask for the faith sub-groups. It's easy to get connected once you are a part of the larger support groups. 


www.focusonthefamily.com (resources about LGBTQ) 


https://childparentrights.org/ loaded with resources. They offer Support for church leaders. You can order a Church Transgender Response Guide. I (Axa) have read it and it’s excellent. (FYI) it comes from an orthodox biblical perspective.


https://app.conquestgraphics.com/portals/cprc/config?ppi=353baa9f-e5ab-ee11-8164-00155dc9d20a&apId=b74f9515-e5ab-ee11-8164-00155dc9d20a They offer Support and resources for parents. You can download a Parental notification letter and sexuality non consent opt-out form, for schools. 



https://www.jacksonfamilyministry.com

https://bobslone.com/home/podcast-production/

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

In this wide-ranging interview with Axa Carnes, a well-educated counselor and activist, Dr. Jackson explores the new phenomenon of rapid-onset gender dysphoria, which is affecting many teenagers with undiagnosed/untreated psychiatric disorders. This dysphoria is being treated with life-altering drugs and surgeries, the consequences of which Mrs. Carnes will clearly delineate. 

You have to be vetted by leadership to be part of these groups. Parents will have a phone call or a Zoom meeting with a chapter leader before being accepted into the group. 


https://hurtingmomsmendinghearts.org/ (Christian group). They have specific support groups for moms of trans identifying children. They have monthly zoom support meetings and also a great course that I took. 


The groups below are for everyone. Some offer support but also have a wealth of resources and information.

https://www.parentsofrogdkids.com/  State local support.  This organization has sub-groups for boys and parents of adults.

https://genderdysphoriasupportnetwork.com/ - Parent support groups via Zoom. They have meetings for new parents, parents of estranged or medicalized kids, etc.

https://ourduty.group/  Great resource for parents. They don't have support groups. It's more informational.

Other resources for parents

https://www.pittparents.com/ - A substack with hundreds of stories from parents who have a trans identified child or young adult. There are also a few stories from detransitioners. 

NOTE: Christian parents can join these groups and ask for the faith sub-groups. It's easy to get connected once you are a part of the larger support groups. 


www.focusonthefamily.com (resources about LGBTQ) 


https://childparentrights.org/ loaded with resources. They offer Support for church leaders. You can order a Church Transgender Response Guide. I (Axa) have read it and it’s excellent. (FYI) it comes from an orthodox biblical perspective.


https://app.conquestgraphics.com/portals/cprc/config?ppi=353baa9f-e5ab-ee11-8164-00155dc9d20a&apId=b74f9515-e5ab-ee11-8164-00155dc9d20a They offer Support and resources for parents. You can download a Parental notification letter and sexuality non consent opt-out form, for schools. 



https://www.jacksonfamilyministry.com

https://bobslone.com/home/podcast-production/

Speaker 1:

Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician Dr Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm privileged today to have in the studio Axa Karnes Now Axa, for full disclosure, happens to be my sister-in-law. She's married to my stepbrother, stan, when my dad died. My mom remarried a few years later to Ernest Karnes, who was just a prince of a gentleman, and my family loved him dearly, and he had a son named Stan. And it's beyond me how Stan was able to marry Axa, because Axa is more beautiful than the moon, she's highly educated, highly intelligent, and I don't know how he was able to corral Miss Axa, but he did Well. And so I'm going to let Axa talk in a few minutes. But I want to start with a story from my medical practice.

Speaker 2:

Some well over a year ago I had a young lady come in the office and she was there just for a head cold. But as we began to talk I began to look and see that she was taking male six hormones. So I began to inquire about that, and she was very frank in telling me that she was planning to have top surgery. Well, honestly, axa, that was the first time I'd ever heard that phrase top surgery. So I said excuse me. And she said I'm planning to have top surgery next. And I said what do you mean by that? And she looked at me like I was the dumbest doctor on planet Earth. And she says I'm going to have a bilateral mastectomy. And I said are you kidding me? And she says yes, I'm taking these hormones. And she peeled her shirt down a bit and showed me these breast binders that she was wearing and she was very proud of it. And then she said and I'm planning on having top surgery.

Speaker 2:

Well, I was completely bum-fuzzled and I said now, why in the world would you do that? And she says well, dr Jackson, you know I've been dealing with anxiety and depression for the longest time. And she said I'm convinced that this is going to help me with my anxiety and depression. And well, I was highly skeptical and I told her so. Well, when I told her that, she became irate and she stood up and her face got red and she clenched her fist. And she says to me do you want me to commit suicide? And I laughed at her. I said suicide, what are you talking about? I don't want you to commit suicide. And she said well, if you keep disputing with me about my intentions to have top surgery, you're going to make me commit suicide.

Speaker 2:

Well, I was completely blown away at that turn of events. And then she just stomped out of my office. She opened the door and stomped at it and we never got to discuss the reason she came, which was for a head cold. Well, that was my first experience with a teenager that was transitioning, and since then there have been others and, thank the Lord, none of the experiences have been that traumatic for me or the patient. But this acts of what in the world is going on with teenagers, and since then I've learned that there is a phrase called gender dysphoria, something like that. You can help me say it correctly, but tell me, tell my listeners, what in the world is going on with our teenagers?

Speaker 3:

Okay, let's unpack this a little bit. So you said gender dysphoria, so let's go ahead and address that. Get that out of the way. Gender dysphoria is in the DSM-5, that is the diagnostic manual that mental health professionals use, and it basically means an incongruence between a person's body and their mind. So a boy may feel that he's a girl, but or a girl may feel that she's a boy, and there's that disconnect. Now, about 10 years ago and before that, gender dysphoria was pretty much exclusively only happening in the very young children. That was called early onset gender dysphoria.

Speaker 2:

I remember that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, these were like toddlers or preschoolers, early elementary boys primarily who, for some unknown reason, or maybe because they had some adverse childhood experience, had that disconnect in their minds. And so these were like 0.01% of the population. They were like unicorns, not to you know, I'm using that a little bit sarcastically, but to the point that, for example, dr Grossman, the psychiatrist, says that in her practice she never came across one of these children.

Speaker 2:

I got you and she was a child and adolescent psychiatrist.

Speaker 3:

Psychiatrist correct, but she never came across a single child who had that, because that's how rare they were.

Speaker 2:

I understand.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So what's happening now, though within the last five years it really started in some places 10 years ago, but it definitely very intensely within the last five years is almost like an infection like COVID, but like a mental health contagion of children saying and teenagers saying that they have gender dysphoria. It is a social contagion, like anorexia eating disorders where Hannah, your daughter this morning, was talking about when she was coming out. It was all about anorexia, bulimia and non bisexual and these things that kids started honing in and then decided this is what they have. But this is what gets really interesting. The pandemic broad this to a head because kids were on the internet a lot. They were isolated and they were online. The schools were all online and there was not much for them to do other than being at home. So this started exploding on the internet through influencers and people. Females were transitioning to male and males transitioned to female, just luring these kids and grooming them into this lifestyle. So what happens?

Speaker 3:

you know, dr Jackson, the word iatrogenic like an iatrogenic illness, for example, a patient has cancer and they go on chemotherapy and then the chemotherapy gives them I don't know an autoimmune illness or something, and that's called iatrogenic illness. It's caused by the treatment or the cure. Well, what's happening with these kids is they don't have gender dysphoria, they don't have any congruence with their body, they're autistic or have ADHD or have a learning disability or they're simply lonely, isolated kids who are awkward and they feel that something's wrong with them and they go on the internet and say why do I feel so awkward? Why am I so unhappy? Why do I hate my body?

Speaker 3:

And the response from the internet immediately is well, maybe you're trans, or maybe you're a girl in a boys body. And then it takes them on to links that will push them further and further into this world. So these kids now are immersed in this world, learning and hearing and seeing all about transgenderism. Many, many are immediately pulled into pornography, trans pornography, sophistication pornography for boys I mean I'm assuming your audience is adults Gay male pornography for girls. Believe it or not, they're getting trapped into this pornography and their brains literally start changing to the point that they do start experiencing that incongruence with their body. So then they all of a sudden, they have this gender dysphoria, this distress in their bodies, and these people on the internet or teachers in the schools or guidance counselors start telling them, giving them a script on what they need to say and how they need to act in order to get what they want.

Speaker 2:

Now what I've noticed in my medical practice is it's mostly young females. Is that epidemiologic?

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, yes, it is Right now there is a 75 percent. It's between 70 to 75 percent females and 25 to 30 percent males, so it's definitely three times more females than males, but we do have. I mean, 25 percent is still 25 out of these kids, 25 out of 100 of these kids are males. So it's much less, but it's still significant and it is increasing.

Speaker 2:

Now, actually, how is it that you know all this stuff? You're a mom and all this, and so you seem to be so well informed. What are your credentials? How do you get to know all this?

Speaker 3:

Well, as far as professionally, I have a master's in education in the area of divergent learning, basically teaching kids who are neurodivergent, kids on the spectrum or ADHD, and so that was always an interest to me. You know, I had a child who you know was on the spectrum, is now an adult. This touched our family. A loved one got involved in this world. So I became very interested in okay, what can I do to educate, what can I do to stop this? For, you know, for kids and so so you just became self-taught.

Speaker 3:

Yes, really Don very, very deep dives. I've led research projects to prepare research files for legislators and for doctors and for researchers, and so I'm part of a group of I mean, there's a lot of allies, parents, professionals, attorneys, medical people who are, you know, very invested in having this medical scandal. Because that's what it is it's a medical scandal and medical abuse stop. And also mental health, because the mental health field is completely captured. Every field is captured. This is a contagion that has touched every single aspect of society.

Speaker 2:

Now I understand, and I understand that you were a research assistant for Dr Miriam Grossman, the psychiatrist that you referenced a little while ago in the writing of her book Trans Nation.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, I was. I mean she had a variety of research assistants but I helped her research the stories of parents, of detransitioners and, you know, even people who are transitioning willingly but who are having terrible medical side effects. And I also run her parents surveys. We surveyed 500 parents as a really nice sample of parents from all over the world and they answered questions that she would put out and then I would sort those surveys and then highlight, you know, what I thought she needed to see and it's in a section of the back of her book. It's called parent to parent advice and it's really valuable.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is. It's a great book. I couldn't put it down. I read it, start to finish, as quickly as I could. The book is Trans Nation by Dr Miriam Grossman and if my listeners are interested in this subject, I would highly recommend the book. Now let's back up, go ahead.

Speaker 3:

I'm sorry it's Lost in Trans Nation, a Child Psychiatry Guide out of the Madness and the name is Miriam Grossman, g-r-o-s-s-m-a-m, and you can get it in Amazon.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep, it's an excellent book. All right, now let's go back a little bit. I want to talk about some definitions, because there's some things that we think we understand, but a lot of times we don't. What's the difference between sex and gender, and intersex?

Speaker 3:

Yes. So I mean, the most basic level of understanding is sex, is biology, but what I want to do actually is, since you know you're going to talk at some point about the South Carolina bill that it's right now in the Senate, I want to read you their definition, because one of the things that this bill aims to do is codify in South Carolina law the definitions of sex and gender.

Speaker 2:

Good.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, it's an which. It's incredible that we are in a place in history that we have to codify what sex gender means.

Speaker 2:

Yep, it is amazing.

Speaker 3:

But their definition is sex means the biological indication of male and female in the context of reproductive potential or capacity. So, such as sex chromosomes, naturally occurring sex hormones, gonads and non ambiguous internal and external genitalia present at birth, without regard to an individual psychological, chosen or subjective experience of gender. As you know, it's based on genes expressed through chromosomes. So, basically, that is what sex is. You can't change your sex.

Speaker 2:

Exactly right, and we all know that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, but we have to put it into law now. And then gender means, according to the bill and what will be codifying the law, gender means a psychological, behavioral, social and cultural aspects of being male or female. So, basically, gender is the expression of your sex and that can vary, right? I mean, some girls used to be tomboy, right, you know they, they like to be out there playing sports and dressed in you know whatever basketball shorts and t-shirts, and tennis shoes, and they were just tomboy. They could grow up to be totally feminine, woman or not. And now those girls are being told their trans You're not a girl, you're a boy because you like this boy thing. So that's basically.

Speaker 3:

You know, gender is very, very confusing. It's become very messy and and conflated, and I think we, we, those of us who live in reality, particularly the reality of God's ordained, you know, creation of man and woman need to be very specific about our language. And now I get caught up in, you know, this madness of believing you can change gender or infant. That is sexist biology. Gender is just how you express yourself.

Speaker 2:

What do they? Mean by intersex.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so intersex is basically a person who is born with a medically verifiable disorder of sexual development, including, including, but not limited to, a person with external biological sexual characteristics that are ambiguous, meaning you know a birth, a baby may have genitalia that is not exactly clear, you know if it's male or female, but not limited to people who are born with 46 xx chromosomes, with the realization of 46 xy chromosomes, and anyway, some may have both ovarian and ticicleroticia. I mean, that's like technical, yeah, that's what the bill is defining. But basically, even people who have chromosomal varieties, they're still male or female, that's correct, they're still one or the other.

Speaker 2:

That's correct.

Speaker 3:

So you know people. Their body may be expressing it in different ways, and just so people know people who are listening. This bill makes exceptions for intersex people. Right, those people are not included in the restrictions because if they need surgery to repair or take care of something in their body or you know, for example, I met a man I think he had client fender syndrome, client filter Okay, thank you Syndrome, and so his body did not, does not produce enough testosterone, but he is a man and so he has to have, you know, testosterone shots to help him. He people would be able to do that, and it's one of the things that activists use.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's a red herring.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's a red herring, but I have met at least three intersex people who say we are being used.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Okay we are still a man or a woman we're being used for for these purposes. We didn't sign up for this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I understand that. Yeah, Well, now let's go to the next question about gender ideology. What exactly is? Is that?

Speaker 3:

Okay, let's go all the way back to the spiritual roots of it. The spiritual roots of gender. Ideology is not system. The nostics believe that it was all about the mind. The only thing that mattered was the mind, you know, and the body was worthless and you could do whatever you wanted to the body. So at its root there's that divide, you know, between the mind doesn't have to connect to the body. So that comes from ancient history.

Speaker 3:

But more recently, dr Rosman actually goes into great detail about this in her book and I don't have to go into great detail. But since the 1950s there was this, this man, this belief, belief. He was a psychiatrist or psychologist, john Money, and he experimented on a child who had had a very tragic accident with his genitalia. It was a botched circumcision and he tried to turn him into a girl. Well, he could never. This boy grew up believing he was a girl and yet knowing something was wrong with him and he acted like a boy. But those studies were published as if the experiment had been a success and John Hopkins started a clinic for transgender. You know, people, supposedly I don't believe anybody is born in the wrong body, obviously to transition them. So the roots of it started like in the 1950s and then in the 1960s with a sexual revolution and the 70s, all that freedom, open up the gay rights movement and fast forward to the AIDS epidemic, which pushed the gay rights movement to the forefront, culminating when, during the Obama administration, in gay marriage, the rights to gay marriage, and one of the things that happened is that the gay rights movement had achieved total success. I mean, marriage was the last barrier and they achieved that and not having anything else to drum up support, honestly, to drum up money, continuing to come in, they turned towards trans, the TQ, the transqueer rights, and what was so brilliant I mean this sarcastically, but it was a brilliant move on their part was that they turned this into the newest social justice, civil rights issue. And you know us Americans, because of our background, americans are very sensitive to civil rights issues Right, and they have made this into a civil rights issue.

Speaker 3:

Now it really is not just the United States, it is worldwide. I mean it comes from, you know, sougi in the UN. Sougi is sexual orientation, gender identity, mandates from the United Nations. It comes from the World Health Organization. It really is from the very, very top of those organizations, but the US seems to be the one that just picks it up and takes the ball and runs with it for a touchdown, and that's what we have done.

Speaker 3:

So, yes, so these ideologies have been sold. As you know, these are your oppressed people. It's very much tied into critical theories. There's, of course, critical race theory, which we don't have to get into because it's not the point of this you know podcast, but it's tied to critical race theories, tied to queer critical theory. It's all. It's all tied in. And so that's one side of it, right, the ideology part of it.

Speaker 3:

The other part of it is that you have people at the highest echelons of power and wealth who are themselves men, transitioned as women, who own a lot of the medical companies, the pharmaceutical companies, who are the biggest endowers of money for the universities, and they want the respect they don't want to be.

Speaker 3:

You know the men who are doing shameful things in their closet, dressing like women having a fetish. They want the recognition and they want to bring this totally not only into acceptance but into just pushing it on everybody. And there's money involved, because if you give a young person puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, that child, that young person, is going to be a medical patient for life because their body will start producing natural sex hormones. They will have to have, you know, hormones. They're called exogenous hormones, meaning you know that they have going to have to have replacement for those hormones for the rest of their lives or they will be continued to be given the opposite sex hormone and they're going to be sick people. They are going to, you know, they're going to have health problems too.

Speaker 2:

Now, actually, you have experience with young people who de-transition. They've gone through the transition experience, they've had regrets or changed their minds and then they want to go back to being a normal teenager or young adult. Can you talk to us a little bit about that as well?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, those are the saddest. They're the saddest stories, honestly. I have met in person about 12 of these young people. I went to one of the young ladies Parisha came to South Carolina to testify last year and I spent the afternoon with her. And then I went to a conference in November and I met about 12, I think maybe 15 of these young people and they're very, they're very broken. They have two multiple things going against them, but so they have the regret, they have the emotional damage that has been done. One of the things that happens to these young people is that at whatever age they went into the transition, the medicalization of it, it's almost like they get frozen at that developmental age. They have a trauma that happens to them and they're frozen, stuck at that age. So if they went into this at 18 and they come out of it at 25, 26, they have the emotional maturity of an 18 year old.

Speaker 3:

I mean it's like they have this gap in there. So they're behind in terms of their studies, their maturity, their relationships, in every area of life. They're stuck and frozen, and the other thing that happens is, of course, the physical damage. So, for example, we have 19, 21, 24, 25 year old girls who are going through menopause because the testosterone has basically ruined their endocrine system, has ruined the body's ability to properly produce estrogen, progesterone. They have several of the women have had mastectomies, and so what's so sad is the masculine initiation quote unquote top surgery, let's call it what it is, is bilateral mastectomies. They're not doing them the way you would do them for a woman who has breast cancer. Where they're, the tissue is left there for reconstruction. No, they are literally like sheared, and so you know, reconstruction for them is nearly impossible. At least the technology is not there to be able to help them to do that. So they have. They have many, many problems. They have pain. They always complain of pain, joint pain, muscle pain from the testosterone. Their voices are deep.

Speaker 3:

I met one who has an Adam's apple because she was given testosterone at 14. And masculinize her bodies are masculine, and as the girls, then the guys have a whole other set of problems and I. There's this young man that I am a little bit like his mentor and I know his mom too. She's a strong believer and he had an orchieptomy I mean, basically they empty his squirtle sacs and he has so much regret because he would love to be a dad and he loves children. You know, there's just so much regret but but we need to pray for them. And there's some that have come to know the Lord, or children of believers who were prodigals and came back in. It's a beautiful thing to say how God can redeem, you know, even the most broken, most damaged body and mind into something beautiful. So my hope for all of them is that they will meet Jesus and come to know him as a personal Savior and Lord and know that, you know there is an eternity and that their bodies are not going to be broken, you know if they.

Speaker 3:

Jesus and go to heaven.

Speaker 2:

How do their parents deal with this? I know you deal with the parents and meet with them as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's a mixture, you know. So, the majority of the ones who went through this as minors, like Chloe and Luca and we feel it, prisha, yeah, especially Chloe and Luca who've testified publicly their parents were like to by medical doctors and mental health providers who told them If you don't do this, your child will commit suicide, what your former patient, that young woman, told you yeah that is, she didn't make that up in her head.

Speaker 3:

She got that from professionals, she got that from the internet, she got that from everywhere. That is a lie. It's a lie that I heard on the house floor last Wednesday during the debate. It was a lie that was proclaimed time and time and time again by a variety of house representatives, and it is. It puts parents in such a difficult position because they're told in front of their child Would you rather have a dead son or a life daughter, or vice versa? Would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son? And these poor parents who have not been educated, who have not heard about it, I'm terrified. I mean, if someone tells your child will commit suicide, I mean, that's a terrifying idea. Now I I would not have as much compassion for parents who start this right now, because I think the information right now it's overwhelming and If you are not hearing the opposite of what these people are saying, you might be under leaving under a rock.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know there's just hope that there was. And you know, when these girls were coming up five, six years ago, when these things were done to them, they really it was. It was absolute silence from the opposite side of what's called gender, of firm, so-called gender affirming care. All you heard, if you googled, if anyone, the news it was all about affirmation, social transition, drugs, surgeries. So there was nowhere for these parents to go or to turn. So they have a lot of regret. I mean, these parents have a lot of regret.

Speaker 2:

Yeah oh, that's just so heartbreaking Acts. I'm just. It just leaves me devastated to hear these stories. Well, let me talk a little bit about the bill that was discussed in the South Carolina house last week, and we'll end, we'll conclude, our remarks with this I want you to Bring my listeners up to speed on that and let them know how that Went. And then also, now the bill is in the Senate. So let's talk about that briefly.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so, first of all, the bill is H 46 24, so 46 24, that's the name of the bill and it's good to keep in mind. We already I just highlight. I won't read the whole bill, but I just want to highlight some of the points that are in the bill, because I think it's important to know what it is that we are asking them to vote for. So, like I already mentioned, codify the word sex and gender, and Then it's a total ban on on any kind of medical procedure that would aim to change the sex or gender of a Child that is under 18.

Speaker 2:

So this is a minor spill now, is that just in state funded institution, or is that in private medical clinics as well?

Speaker 3:

It doesn't matter everywhere, like no minor in South Carolina would have any kind of Medical procedure that includes purity blockers, cross-ex hormones and surgeries.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I mean.

Speaker 3:

No doctor or medical provider would be allowed to do that in South Carolina to a child. So, and then Then the next part is that public funds will not be used for gender transition procedures For anybody, and that the Medicaid program will not reimburse or provide coverage for these practices to anyone Under 26 years of age. So you know, I'm sure probably all of us have a problem with the fact that Medicaid would cover it for anyone over 26 years of age, but this is what the bill Reads at this point. And then the penalties are that Doctors who do that are subject to you know, basically Consequences by their medical board.

Speaker 3:

And the good thing is, which I personally think has the best chilling effect on Medical providers who would want to do this, is that a minor can sue. The parents of a minor can sue the doctor at any point while they're a minor, and then when the minor is 18, he or she has up to 21 years later to sue the doctors or the clinic or the hospital. Basically, it extends the statute of limitations for 21 years after they turn 19. And what we have seen in other states is that it's very, very effective when doctors know that these people have been given the green light to sue them. That tends to have a good effect.

Speaker 3:

Now the other thing the bill has I'm talking about the original bill is that the schools that they are not to encourage or coerce a minor to withhold from the minor's parent or legal guardian the fact that the minor's perception of his gender is inconsistent with his sex. So basically, they can hide this from the parents. If they know about it, they can keep it a secret. They can keep closets with clothes of the opposite sex where they can go change when they get to school and have a different name, and all that with other parents. Now, was that?

Speaker 2:

provision taken out where schools, teachers and principals have to report to parents transitioning children.

Speaker 3:

No, it wasn't taken out there. There were about like three amendments that were presented and one of the amendments was from Representative Thomas Beach and he wanted the administrators to get involved in the reporting to parents, and that did not pass and that was not added. I do think that there is an amendment that I don't have with me. I haven't read it. That does make it more than, instead of concealing, that, you have to report. So I mean the other amendment that passed is one where there are criminal penalties for doctors who engage in doing this for up to 20 years in prison. So we will see what happens with that amendment when he gets the Senate, because it's really unprecedented Florida has criminal penalties up to five years, alabama has the penalties up to 10 years and Alabama, because of that criminal penalty, has been tied up in court for three years. And for three years children in Alabama have continued getting gender firm and care. So we can pray that the Lord will just give wisdom to know you know what is the best way to deal with the consequences.

Speaker 2:

Now, what's the number of this bill that, now that it's gone to the Senate? What's the number there? Do you know?

Speaker 3:

It's still. It's well, they are taking up the same bill. Senate is not creating their own bill. Now they can tweak it, change it, amend it, you know, but it's 4624. It's still 4624.

Speaker 2:

All right. So our listeners need to call their senators and ask them to support this bill. Should they say without amendments? Or how should they say?

Speaker 3:

I mean I would say support the bill as it came out of the House committee.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

And that's what I would say. You know, support the bill as it came out of the House committee. But one thing that is important is, by saying support the bill as it came out of the House committee, it avoids what the Democrats are pushing tooth and nail, which is a grandfathered clause, and what that means is that the children who are currently receiving puberty blockers and hormones according to the media I heard the number at 3,700 kids in South Carolina, which would be a lot from small state like that. I personally have not put eyes on where that figure came from, but I heard it that the media has said 3,700 kids would continue with the puberty blockers and the hormones indefinitely and that would really be so bad for those kids. They would not be protected. So you know those amendments did not pass and we're hoping the Senate does not add them. So by saying support the bill as it came out of the House committee you know that covers all the things that I read here.

Speaker 2:

I got you. I got you Well. Miss Axa, you are a fountain of information and I want you to know I appreciate all of your activism, all of your concern for parents and their children and you just have such a kind hearted spirit about yourself. And I want you to know I really do appreciate all your hard work and your diligence and I appreciate you coming on my show and sharing with me and with my listening audience all of this very, very good information.

Speaker 3:

Oh, thank you. It's really an honor and anytime you know, once we have more, this bill goes through and things progressed. If you want me to come and give you an update, I'll be glad to do that.

Speaker 2:

Well, we may just have to do that. All right, you're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, Dr Robert Jackson. My guest today is Axa Karnes. We'll be back again next week.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at JacksonFamilyMinistrycom. This podcast is produced by Bobslown Audio Production at Bobslowncom.

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