When the echoes of military discipline and the hum of corporate boardrooms collide, the result is a leadership symphony that few can conduct. That's precisely what John Warren, Marine turned CEO and author of "Lead Like a Marine," orchestrates in our latest episode. His tale starts on the peaceful avenues of Greenville and marches through the harrowing sands of conflict, all the way to the summit of entrepreneurial success. Discover the tenets of leadership that John insists are crucial, whether you're commanding a platoon or steering a company towards victory.
Our conversation traverses the landscape of John's experiences, from the sobering lessons learned in a fatal transaction with a local vendor in combat zones, to the halls of Lima One Capital where those principles take on a new mission. We unravel the layers of leadership that require sacrifice, a vigilant work ethic, and a gaze fixed firmly on the horizon. John recounts the impact of servant leadership with a stirring narrative featuring General Mattis, and we dissect the long game in business, debating the merits of growth versus immediate gratification. Tune in for an episode that delivers not only the blueprint for leading with valor but also the heart behind each command.
When the echoes of military discipline and the hum of corporate boardrooms collide, the result is a leadership symphony that few can conduct. That's precisely what John Warren, Marine turned CEO and author of "Lead Like a Marine," orchestrates in our latest episode. His tale starts on the peaceful avenues of Greenville and marches through the harrowing sands of conflict, all the way to the summit of entrepreneurial success. Discover the tenets of leadership that John insists are crucial, whether you're commanding a platoon or steering a company towards victory.
Our conversation traverses the landscape of John's experiences, from the sobering lessons learned in a fatal transaction with a local vendor in combat zones, to the halls of Lima One Capital where those principles take on a new mission. We unravel the layers of leadership that require sacrifice, a vigilant work ethic, and a gaze fixed firmly on the horizon. John recounts the impact of servant leadership with a stirring narrative featuring General Mattis, and we dissect the long game in business, debating the merits of growth versus immediate gratification. Tune in for an episode that delivers not only the blueprint for leading with valor but also the heart behind each command.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
Speaker 2:
Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson and his wife.
Speaker 1:
Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up, because the doctor is in. Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, Dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook. Well, I'm privileged today to have as my guest John Warren, who is the author of the finished reading and thoroughly enjoyed the book is Lead Like a Marine, John. Welcome to More Than Medicine.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:
Well, first of all, I want you to tell my listeners a little bit about yourself, and then I want you to tell us a little bit about how you came to write a book entitled Lead Like a Marine.
Speaker 2:
Sure. So I grew up in Greenville, south Carolina. My mom and all of her side of the family is from Inman, south Carolina, in Spartanburg County, and my dad originally was from Rome, Georgia, and they met at Furman University. My dad went on a football scholarship and met my mom freshman year and ultimately they settled in Greenville and grew up in Greenville, played a lot of basketball.
Speaker 2:
When I was in college, 9-11 happened and that's when I really felt the call to go and serve my country. Both of my grandfathers had served in World War II. One was in a B-24 bomber squadron and the Pacific and the other drove Marines ashore on places like Okinawa. So when 9-11 hit it really impacted me and, like my grandparents, I felt called to serve like they did. I wanted to go into the Marine Corps, so I did.
Speaker 2:
I went in as, ultimately an infantry officer and did two deployments One was to Ramadi, iraq and then came out and faced what a lot of veterans face, which is an appreciation for our service but really not an understanding of what we could contribute to a company. So I actually got a ton of job interviews and had very few job offers. So I saw an opportunity to start a company. I called it Lima One Capital, which was my call sign. In Ramadi I hired as my first hire and really co-founder was John Thompson, who's co-author of the book. I call him Top. He was our company gunnery sergeant from Iraq. He was a 22-year retired master sergeant who had done nine deployment, five of which were combat, so I thought that was a great person to put in charge of operations. So we built the company, sold it in 2019.
Speaker 2:
In the meantime, I had run for governor, felt really called, didn't like where our state was headed, ran for governor in 2018, made it to the runoff in the Republican primary, lost a close runoff and sold the company in 2019. And ultimately my wife encouraged me so much to write the book for really for our kids' sake and just because she thought a lot of the leadership principles were unique and practical, and ultimately it took us about a year and a half to write it. Harper Collins published it and it's actually been a national bestseller. So it's been an amazing experience. We got to interview about 40 of our Marines and about 30 employees from Limo and Capital. I included a lot of those interviews in the book and we tease everyone that everyone's probably shocked that two Marines can write a book.
Speaker 1:
We're already working on our sequel.
Speaker 2:
We're going to call it Read Like a Marine. It's going to be an adult coloring book to live up to expectations.
Speaker 1:
Well, I'm going to tell you right up front it was a fascinating read. I'm a big reader. I read four books a month on average and I just tore through your book. It was fascinating to me. The stories are great stories, the lessons and the principles in the book. The leadership principles are great and I've read lots of leadership books and this one is up there at the top in my opinion and I loved it. I appreciate it. I want you to know that I found it to be just a fascinating read. I think the leadership principles are excellent and I've commended it to multiple of my friends already. And I'm gonna say this did you enjoy writing the book?
Speaker 2:
You know it was a love-hate relationship. We loved certain stages of it writing the chapter, planning it out. You know, one thing that was interesting and I think we mentioned it in the book was we had given a brief to every new employee about our Ramadi deployments and about our company and how we do things differently, and they're really the leadership principles that we wrote in the book. So planning the book, strategizing about what we were gonna say, the stories that we were gonna use that was a lot of fun. The most rewarding was talking to our Marines, some of whom we had not seen in close to 15 years. That was really. It was amazing to see how some of them had done so well since leaving the Marine Corps. Some were still in the Marine Corps, but that was very rewarding. Editing process I'm not a detail-oriented guy and the editing process that Harper put us through, which made the book better, was a bit painful Very painful.
Speaker 1:
See, I'm a big picture guy. My wife is the detailed person and so I write out all the big stuff and she comes behind me and does the detail work. You know, I couldn't do it without her, but it's painful because she comes behind me and she hurts my heart so bad. Ha, ha, ha ha.
Speaker 2:
Hey, that's very great help of your wife to do that.
Speaker 1:
I'm telling you, she's the grammar Nazi. You know, and you have to have somebody like that in your life if you're gonna write a book either an editor or a family member, somebody that you can work with to make the details and the grammar perfect, and you can't do a book without somebody like that. Now let me ask you a question now what do you mean by do everything for a reason?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think you know, when we started the company, one of the things that I really realized and this it wasn't only with the company, it was reinforced with the company, but it started in Ramadi, Iraq. We got to Ramadi, it was total anarchy, chaos at best, and we weren't winning the Iraq war. And what we did was we said, okay, we've got to really understand why the insurgency exists. And there was all this Marine doctrine out there, but it wasn't applicable to fighting a counterinsurgency. And what we did was we realized, hey, the insurgency exists because of debatification. We were in Ramadi, which was the Sunni capital of the world.
Speaker 2:
All of the Sunnis had been disenfranchised by Paul Bremmer, who said, hey, if you're a Sunni and you're a Baptist, you can't serve in the government. They disbanded the Iraqi army, so that's 400,000 heavily armed people now are unemployed, looking for a job, and the only ones hiring were al-Qaeda. So we really started to understand why the insurgency existed. And then we said, okay, well, how do we solve this problem? And what we determined was there were all these different types of insurgent groups. There were the nationalists, who were usually local Sunni Iraqi nationals, a lot of whom were in the military, and the other major camp was al-Qaeda, and what we realized was we shared a lot of the same goals for Iraq as the nationalists and we needed to partner with them to go after al-Qaeda, and that's what we did.
Speaker 2:
So we really changed entire doctrine and entire tactics and really did it based on logic and critical thinking. And then, when we started our company, we did the exact same thing, from our hiring practices to how we originated loans. And what we realized was although it's kind of, I guess we take it for granted that you should do things for a reason you should think through why you're making every decision. Most people don't do that. They do it because in business they say well, that's the industry standard or that's the way it's always been done, or that's the way the company says to do it. Usually, if you really analyze why you're doing something, you can improve it. That's why we say everything with us starts with core values and then doing everything for a reason.
Speaker 1:
I understand that it frustrates me. I work for a big hospital system and so many times things are done just because it's always been done that way. I'm an outside-the-box thinker and I try to be avant-garde and I try to be creative and that doesn't fly so many times in a big hospital culture.
Speaker 2:
I think if you look at our medical system in the US, probably the greatest industry that could do everything for a reason is the medical industry.
Speaker 1:
You're exactly right. And so many times I want to pull my hair out because I look at things that are being done and nobody's asking why, why do we do it this way? And when I ask people that question, they look at me like I've got two heads. Ha ha ha ha. All right, let me go to the next question. What do you mean by training for culture?
Speaker 2:
first, Well, in the Marine Corps, the foundation of the Marine Corps everyone from the outside looks at the Marine Corps and they say, wow, they're a group of warriors, it's a great fighting force. They're very combat-intensive, combat-focused. But what most people don't understand is the Marine Corps' central focus is core values and it starts with honor, courage and commitment. And in OCS, for officer candidate school, that's a 10-week period to where officers are really being evaluated. Potential officers, candidates, are being evaluated to see if they can become Marine officers and during that period we don't fire one live shot. There is no live ammo used.
Speaker 2:
It is all about indoctrination of honor, courage and commitment and what we realized was that's the most important foundation of any individual or any entity. So for me, as an individual, I would say my core values start with my faith and then they go for country and family and honesty and integrity and work ethic, and that's what's the most important thing. And at Lima, one Capital, which was the company we started on day one, we just indoctrinated the employees with our culture of hard work, honesty and integrity, doing everything for a reason. And then we got into specific skill training. But I will tell you that it is much harder to find someone that fits your core values than it is to train them in how to do a specific job, task that's correct.
Speaker 2:
And that's what we focused on.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's harder to find integrity and honor than it is to find people who have skills. Skills come easy.
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you're exactly right. All right, so let's go to the next question. Describe what you mean by avoiding comfort-based decisions and the consequences of violating that rule.
Speaker 2:
In the book we really wanted, the only stories that we struggled with in terms of are we going to tell this story? It came in that chapter and it's a story that relates to what we called ECP-2, which was Entry Checkpoint 2. And we had a platoon station there and it was coming into Ramadi to get into the city. It was a city of 400,000 people and to get into the city you had to cross either the Habaniya Canal or the Euphrates River and one of the entry points into the city was over a bridge and it was kind of like a way station on the side of a US interstate. And at that entry checkpoint the Iraqi police searched every vehicle and every individual to make sure there were no ammunitions coming in, explosives, weapons of any kind and also cash. And there was one platoon that was always there to oversee the Iraqi police. And we had a platoon there and it's a painful story to tell, no-transcript.
Speaker 2:
It's a very easy job theoretically, because all you have to do is supervise the Iraqi police, but then it's 120 degrees and it's sweltering and you're right next to the river, so it's super humid and you have no, you know, fresh fruit. You have no hot, hot meals being provided. You're eating MREs and the water that you have is almost boiling because there's no refrigerator. And what happened was the Marines started making an ill-advised decision to start buying ice from an ice truck that started coming into the city, and what they would do is they would send a fire team leader or squad leader out to purchase the ice. And the first time they purchased the ice, no problems. The second time, third time, fourth time you know several times they had no problems. But what we were taught from the beginning was do not establish patterns, because al-Qaeda will pick up on that.
Speaker 1:
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:
And, unfortunately, one of the times that the last time that they tried to purchase ice, a fire team leader went to purchase the ice with our US interpreter named Steve from Detroit. In that time, the ice truck wasn't filled with ice, it was filled with explosives and it killed a United States Marine, it killed our US interpreter and it killed 12 Iraqi police. And it was all because of a comfort-based decision. And that's a painful story to tell and that's an extreme case of making a comfort-based decision. But what I tell everyone when I tell that story is we all have something in our lives that is similar to purchasing ice, and what I mean by that is it is something that we are putting ahead of our mission in life because of our comfort, and the key is to eliminate purchasing that ice and focus on the mission, no matter how tough it is. And I think in our society we've gotten solved as a country and we need to return to really focusing on mission and not making comfort-based decisions.
Speaker 1:
Now, how did that play out in your business?
Speaker 2:
Well, there's another. We talk about sacrifice and we talk about work ethic. I quote my mother-in-law a lot on this. She says there are seasons of life and when I started the business, I started doing something that was called morning ops, and I would wake up at 3.45 in the morning. I would be at the office at 4am. I would work from 4 to 8. Then I would go work out and then I would work a full day and probably come home, try to have dinner with Courtney and then work for a couple hours after she went to bed, and that's a very difficult thing to do. I called it morning ops, but that was a sacrifice that needed to be made in order to grow the company. So for us in business, work ethic is everything.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And frankly, I see this, I see this a lot as a problem with Christians, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:
If.
Speaker 2:
I were to tell you what were our worst employees at Lima One Capital. It was self-proclaimed Christians who came up with excuses as to why they didn't have to work as hard, and the excuse I often heard was well, I want to be a good dad. I'm a Christian. As if, you know, a non-Christian doesn't want to be a good dad. And they can only work till 4 pm. And you know, every time I question them, I'd always bring up Paul and I said you know, paul went through torture, torment, stonings, beatings, imprisonments, and he did it in order to start all of these new churches. And what did he do? On top of starting new churches? He provided his own way. He was a tent maker. He worked extremely hard. So I think a lot of people need to return to the principle of hard work and that's how we tried to implement it at Lima One.
Speaker 1:
I understand that, all right. Who each last?
Speaker 2:
Good leaders eat last. So in the Marine Corps we talk about eating last. As you know, it gets into a conversation. I spoke to a group of high schoolers yesterday about lead like a Marine and one of the things I asked them I said is it, is leadership a privilege or is leadership a responsibility? And they didn't really understand the question and I said hey, what do you get out of being a leader? And a lot of people said, well, I mean, I want to be a leader so that I get all these perks. And I said well, that means you think leadership is a privilege, but in the Marine Corps leadership is a responsibility and it's about protecting the people under you. And in the book we tell the story about General Mattis who at the time, I think, was a three star general. It was Christmas day. He came in and relieved the officer of the day, who was a lowly lieutenant, so that he could go home and spend Christmas with his family. Meanwhile, lieutenant Mattis, or Lieutenant General Mattis, stayed and was officer of the day, which is unheard of.
Speaker 2:
That's right, and you know I always I was talking to a Christian school where my kids go yesterday and one of the things I told them I said think about the biblical leaders. Okay, take away our political leaders today who are feasting off of their service. Think about Moses. What did he get out of that? Right Like he suffered. Think about all the major and the minor prophets. Did any, were any of them leading a good life by being a leader? No, they were called by God for a variety of reasons and I would say they suffered because of it, but they suffered in order to help God's people and I think for me, that's what eating last means.
Speaker 1:
That's right. Being a servant, you got to be the servant servant leader, Exactly right Servant leader.
Speaker 2:
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:
All right. One last question before we wrap it up what does it mean to think long-term? I like that chapter. How does long-term thinking play out in your business?
Speaker 2:
Well for us you know, we kept investing in the company, and I see this with a lot of entrepreneurs. I say, hey, what's your goal? Because if you're really trying to grow a business, there are two options. You can either run it as a lifestyle business and you can pull as much cash out of that every year and then worry about next year after that. But for me and for John Thompson, who is my co-author, we looked at the business as a long-term investment and instead of pulling out those profits every year, we kept reinvesting them into the company in terms of hiring more quality people, giving our employees raises or investing in infrastructure so that we could grow, which ultimately increased the value of the company. That's right.
Speaker 2:
And that's a short-term sacrifice with a long-term mindset. And it proved very successful, as we sold the company for nine figures.
Speaker 1:
Wow, how about that? Well, now have you had a lot of speaking opportunities as a consequence of writing this book?
Speaker 2:
We've done a lot of speaking. We've been on Fox News, been on a lot of radio shows, been on a lot of TV shows. It's been very rewarding. I think I prefer probably the more intimate settings where you can actually have dialogue with people. Yesterday was very rewarding with juniors and seniors who had read the book and were very engaged in high school. I think it's very impactful and it's been a great opportunity. I tell everyone, South Carolina is the greatest state in the union and it's because of our people and the book has really given me an opportunity to spend a lot of time with a lot of South Carolinians.
Speaker 1:
How about that? That's great, that's awesome. What I want you to know, I thoroughly enjoyed the book and I've recommended it to a lot of people and will continue to do so. How many copies have you sold? Do you have any idea?
Speaker 2:
I honestly don't know right at the moment We've made. I think we were the number two best-selling non-fiction for USA Today, but I don't know exactly the count of that.
Speaker 1:
How about that? That's great. That's great Will say excellent. Read the book is. Lead like a marine, run towards a challenge. Assemble your fire team and win your next battle. It's by Captain John Warren and Master Sergeant John Thompson, and it's a fascinating book. I thoroughly encourage you to pick up a copy. Where can they find these copies, john?
Speaker 2:
They can buy it at Amazon. They can buy it at Barnes and Noble. Most bookstores have it, so take an order online or pick it up at a bookstore.
Speaker 1:
All right, well, you're listening to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson. My guest today is John Warren, author of Lead Like a Marine. We'll be back again next week. Thank you for listening in. Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, for the schedule of speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, Instagram or their webpage at JacksonFamilyMinistrycom. This podcast is produced by Bobslown Audio Production at Bobslowncom.