MTM - Interview with Dr. Matt Clark

“Pro-life” is easy to say on a stage. It’s much harder to define in law when the questions get sharp: rape and incest, disability, medical prognosis, and whether the people involved in abortion should be treated as legally accountable or automatically immune. That’s why we sat down with Dr. Matt Clark, CEO of Personhood South Carolina, to talk plainly about personhood, equal protection, and what South Carolina voters should demand from candidates ahead of the governor runoff.

We walk through the personhood principle in simple terms: babies before birth must be treated the same way we treat babies after birth. From there, we test the logic against the exceptions politicians often defend. If the state would never allow the killing of a born child because of the circumstances of conception or because the child is sick, why do lawmakers treat those factors as “reasonable” exceptions for abortion? We also address a topic many leaders avoid: whether blanket immunity for mothers is compatible with justice for all, and how courts can still weigh coercion, threats, and other mitigating factors while keeping the law consistent.

Along the way we talk about South Carolina abortion legislation, the Unborn Child Protection Act (S 1095), the limits of the heartbeat law, and why campaign wording can get slippery right before an election. Our goal is not to trade in rumors, but to give you a clear set of questions to press directly onto the candidates so you can vote with a clean conscience and an informed mind.

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more voters can find it before the runoff.

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Interview

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country. Hosted by author and physician Dr. Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller. So listen up because the doctor is in.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Welcome to More Than Medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the Country Doctor's Rusty Dusty Scrapbook. Well, today I will have a special insert for you because of the recent elections and because we have uh primary runoffs coming up. I've decided to insert a special interview with Dr. Matt Clark. He's the CEO of uh Personhood South Carolina, and there are some very interesting pro-life issues that confront some of our um gubernatorial candidates that are in the runoff, and I felt like I should interview Dr. Clark and have him interject some uh wisdom for those of you who are planning to vote in the runoff. And of course, I hope all of my listeners will vote in the runoffs. So, Dr. Clark, welcome to More Than Medicine.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Thank you, Robert. I'm really glad to be with you again, brother. I'm glad to have an opportunity to uh speak with you about this topic and make sure your listeners can understand kind of what's going on right now, and it's uh pressing time because it's less than two weeks before the runoff, especially for the governor's race.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yes, sir. It is important, and and there are some very important um considerations for uh the two that are in the governor's race, Pamela Evet, and Alan Wilson. And um some of them have made some comments about pro-life issues that I think our listeners need to know about, and I've asked you to come and share some of the things that we've been hearing so that our listeners will know and be better informed. So if you don't mind, I'd like you to share with our listeners some of the things that we've uh been hearing and understanding about, uh especially those running for the uh governor's race.

The Endorsement And Senate 1095

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Yeah, glad to do that, Robert. Um your listeners, um, some of them probably are aware that Personhood South Carolina endorsed Ralph Norman for governor uh primarily because of his statements during the debate that he would have signed S 1095, the Unborn Child Protection Act. And while that bill was not perfect, it was an excellent bill that would have ended abortion in South Carolina and applied every single facet of the personhood philosophy. And sadly, all of the other candidates uh said they opposed it or they would veto it, including Alan Wilson and Pamela Vett. So we are very grieved that right now neither of the candidates have voiced personhood understanding and a commitment to protecting all life.

Defining Personhood And Equal Protection

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Because personhood, Robert, it's very simple. And we want to make sure that uh your listeners, really every citizen in the state, understands what it means to embrace and implement the personhood principles. And I say this because I'm hearing that maybe these candidates might, and who knows, maybe they're going to be saying some things that might entice pro-life voters, personhood-minded voters, and we just want the voters to really think and make these candidates prove with their words that they're truly embracing the biblical view of life, Robert, which we believe is encapsulated in the personhood principles. And we like to summarize it this way: we have to treat babies before they're born the exact same way that we treat babies after they're born.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

It's very simple, Robert. It is not complicated. A child inside the womb is a human being.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

From the moment of fertilization made by God's hand in his image, from the moment of fertilization forward. And every single person must be granted protection under the law and dignity under the law, Robert. That's right. Every single, every single person. So what does this mean? Well, we put it this way: that person in South Carolina, we seek to establish equal legal protection for every baby, boy, and girl in South Carolina, beginning at fertilization and without exception.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Well said.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Right? So it's very simple, isn't it? Yes. If you have a living human being after fertilization, that human being must be protected. And individuals who commit violent acts against that human being must face the same criminal penalties as if they had done that same violent act against that baby outside the womb. It's not complicated, is it, Robert?

SPEAKER_03 5:26

No, it's not complicated at all. I don't see why people can't understand that.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

All right.

Rape And Incest Exceptions Tested

SPEAKER_02 5:31

So let's talk about the the areas where our GOP legislators get weak in the knees and refuse to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ. Okay? This is these are the the hard things to talk about. First of all, do we think it would be acceptable to murder a child outside the womb because that child was conceived in rape? No, sir. Would we accept that, Robert?

SPEAKER_03 5:58

No, sir, we do not.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Would would that be acceptable in a court of law? Nope. Not in South Carolina, it wouldn't. Could the perpetrator, the murderer, say, well, you know, the child was conceived in rape. So I I killed that child. What would the judge say to that?

SPEAKER_03 6:14

That person would end up in prison lickety split.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Or worse.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

What if it's incest? Can can could the perpetrator say, well, I killed that child outside the room because outside the womb because it was incest? How how would that go?

SPEAKER_03 6:30

I don't think a judge would allow that defense. No.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

We cannot, we must not kill people outside the womb if they were conceived in rape or incest, and so obviously we cannot allow that inside the womb either. Now, do we grant obviously that this is an extremely difficult case for this woman who's been victimized? Absolutely. And do we want the maximum penalty allowable for the man who's done this evil deed? Of course we do. But we don't execute the child because of the crime of the man who committed this act. And we know that when women kill their own children, they suffer more, not less. More, not less. That's right. So that's the first one is rape and incest. And I understand that these candidates have not spoken wisely about this. Uh, one saying they're comfortable with the current heartbeat law, even going that far. Which, you know, the heartbeat law has exceptions for rape and incest.

Illness, Disability, And The Right To Life

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Let me ask you this, Robert. What if a child's really sick? What if there's a newborn baby that's really sick and is probably gonna die in the next six months? Somebody comes along and kills that baby, murders that child. Are they gonna be able to argue in a court of law, well, you know, look, this child was about to die. So I murdered it. Is that gonna fly?

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Nope, not in South Carolina, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

No. I mean, and so it's it's kind of probably um overdoing it a bit. Your listeners may be going, look, we get it, we get it. But we have to keep saying this because our elected officials are making these irrational arguments, treating these children inside the womb, these children yet born, as if they're less than human. That's right. Because of their the circumstances surrounding their conception or because of their health or level of disability. And we cannot stand for it. We have to continue to point out that it is wrong, it is unbiblical, and it is immoral, and it's unconstitutional. Next, what if the prosecutor accepted terms of murder outside the womb?

Can Mothers Have Legal Immunity

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Right? So there's a murder that's taking place outside the womb of a baby, and the defense team says, look, let's not charge the mother. I know she killed this baby, but she's the mother, so we can't charge her. She's she did it willfully, we we admit that. She doesn't have any psychiatric difficulties, we admit that. She's done it multiple times, we admit that. She, in fact, she said she was gonna go kill her child and told people she was gonna kill her child before she did it. But look, she's the mother, so we can't prosecute her. What do you think a good prosecutor is gonna say to that, Robert?

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Nope, not gonna apply. She's gonna wait.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

What are wise and loving citizens of our state gonna say to that?

SPEAKER_03 9:26

They'll be in an uproar about it, just like the woman from Dannon Union who drowned her two sons in the lake. Exactly. She's in prison. We have and they're in an uproar because they keep saying that she's gonna get out of prison. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Exactly. And yet we have politicians, GOP politicians, and pro-life establishment organizations that are arguing this, that is it it is acceptable for a woman to knowingly willingly kill her own child as long as that child's not born, criminal or all right.

unknown 10:01

Go.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

We're back. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

So why is it that we have GOP politicians and pro-life established pro-life organizations in our state saying that it's acceptable for a mother to knowingly willingly murder her own child as long as that child is still inside the womb? Why are they saying that, Robert? That is completely irrational. Anyone who understands the scriptural principles of personhood is going to reject that and say, no, we cannot just have some blanket statement that all women, without exception, must have total and complete criminal and civil immunity if they have killed their own child. And that's the position of these GOP leaders, and that's the position of the establishment pro-life organizations in our state. And so we really want people to understand the principles of personhood. That if we have a human being that we're speaking of, unique DNA, fertilization has occurred, then that individual is a person that must be granted full justice. Don't we say, with liberty and justice for all in our country, Robert?

SPEAKER_03 11:20

For all, exactly right. That includes every single person. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Right. So because the child is still inside the womb, does not strip that child of all the rights. You can't take the rights away if the child was conceived in rape or incest. You can't take the right to life away if the child is very sick and um even perhaps might be going to die. You can't take the right to life away from that child for any reason. Every child must be protected. And for anyone who breaks this law, whether it's the mother or the father or the abortionist, whoever it is, the hand of one is the hand of all.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Anyone involved in the criminal activity of killing an innocent child must face the same criminal penalties as if they had done it to a child outside the womb. That's justice for all, Robert. That's

Pressing Runoff Candidates For Clear Answers

SPEAKER_02 12:13

right. And we really want the people of our state to press these questions towards these candidates, especially the governor Wilson. Is he going to be governor, Yvette? Is she going to be governor? We need to press these questions upon them. Because right now, based on what they've said, you know, we're going to have a very hard time moving legislation forward. We're going to be having a very hard time right now stopping the slaughter of around 7,000 innocent babies per year in our state if we don't move them from where they are now. So we need to hear from them. And right now, pro-life voters are in a strong spot because we don't really have any motivation to go and vote for either of these people right now.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

That's right. That's right. Neither one of them.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

They're both equally poisoned.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Equally poisoned to the pro-life effort right now, unless they say something different between now and the upcoming very soon runoff.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Yep, you're exactly right. Because neither one of them are true personhood candidates. They both fall short.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

That's right. And don't be surprised if they start saying sneaky things to try to entice you to their side. And you'll notice that um Ralph Norman has not given an endorsement to anyone yet. And we hope that he's also really being careful and not letting these folks be sneaky with him either.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yep. Yep. You're exactly right. Exactly right. You know, we we as pro-lifers, it puts us in a bit of a conundrum because, you know, the litmus test, litmus test for me has always been a person's pro-life position. And I supported Ralph Norman because he without any hesitation was willing to sign the pro-life pledge that personhood and equal protection offered to these candidates. All the rest made excuses why they could not sign an equal protection personhood pledge. And now we're left with two candidates who were unwilling to sign the pledge. And you know, uh what am I supposed to do with that? And unless they come out with a strong statement in the next two weeks stating that they're willing to move to a personhood position that leaves me with two candidates that I really cannot support.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

It certainly doesn't motivate any of us to go and vote in the governor race.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

So the governor runoff is not drawing us to the polls. No. Maybe maybe others. It's certainly not the governor runoff. Right now, it's it's two bad choices who are doing nothing but blocking the way to justice.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yep, yep. Yeah, because they've not promised that they would sign a strong personhood bill if it would come across their desk. And that leaves me trembling for the life of the 7,000 little children that are killed by abortion in our state almost every year.

Mercy, Compassion, And How Trials Work

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Absolutely. And and Robert, look, they're going to argue, well, we have to have compassion, we have to have mercy, but it is not merciful or compassionate to allow someone to commit murder. Nope. That is not compassionate towards that person.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

That is not merciful towards that person. That is harmful to that person because it brings great judgment and great personal guilt and suffering into their lives. So true compassion, true mercy is to have laws that protect every child so that it's never okay for anyone to murder anyone.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

That's right. Where's the compassion for the 7,000 children that are killed by abortion every year? Where's the mercy for the 7,000 unborn children who die at the hands of the abortion abortionist every year? And I promise you, a strong bill like Senate 1095, if it were enacted, the abortions in the state would stop almost immediately. They would go away. That's right. Because no doctor is going to risk his medical license for a $300 abortion procedure. No way. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yep. And we just want to focus on the basic principles that are given to us in God's word and act accordingly with love and courtesy towards everybody involved in the situation. And in terms of the expression of mercy and compassion, that's what happens after the verdict comes down. You've got your sentencing phase. And so, you know, if any woman was coerced or pressured or threatened, all of that's going to come out in the trial, and there's going to be an opportunity for mercy and for compassion when those mitigating circumstances are revealed. So just in the same way that we trust the best we can in our broken system, we have to do the same thing for crimes against babies inside the womb.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

That's right. Exactly right.

Share This With Voters And Campaigns

SPEAKER_03 17:17

All right. Any last comments before we run out of time?

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Don't let any candidate say I'm pro-personhood and then just run out to vote for them. Or I'm pro-life and just run out to vote for them. You gotta hear what they have to say on these key points of what it really means to embrace the principles of personhood, the biblical approach to this issue.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Exactly. All right, now this is a very cogent discussion, and I would like to encourage my listeners to take this podcast and send it to all your pro-life friends. And I'd encourage you to send it to the Alan Wilson and Pamela Evitt campaign. Those two candidates need to hear this podcast. They received this podcast from dozens and dozens of my listeners. Maybe somebody in their campaign is going to listen to it. So I encourage you, take this podcast and forward it to their campaigns. And forward it to your friends. Lots and lots of folks need to hear this discussion in the next week before the uh primary. I think it's on the twenty-third, and lots of people need to hear this in advance. Dr. Clark, I thank you for your time. I thank you for your wisdom, and I pray the Lord to bless you and your family.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Thank you, brother. I really enjoyed this conversation and hope that it travels far and wide according to the blessings of God.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

All right. Thank you, sir. All right, just so my listeners know, part two of uh prepper and preparation will follow after this podcast. If you've been wanting to hear part two of that podcast from last week, it'll be coming right up. This is More Than Medicine. I'm your host, Dr. Robert Jackson, praying that the Lord will bless you real good.

Resources, Next Segment, And Closing

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine. For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, Instagram, or webpage at JacksonFamily Ministry.com. Also, don't forget to check out Dr. Jackson's books that are available on Amazon. The Family Doctor's Beats. The truth. Equipment believers are available.