Episode 49: Loneliness with Monica Jiang

In this episode, Deep Seed host Dalida Turkovic welcomes Monica Jiang to explore the nuances of loneliness, from the isolation felt in bustling cities to the silent struggles in our hyper-connected digital age. Monica will share her insights on the importance of creating meaningful connections and how her recent projects aim to raise awareness about modern loneliness.

Join us as we uncover the layers of loneliness, discuss the impact of technology on our social lives, and learn practical steps to reconnect with ourselves and those around us. Whether you're feeling the weight of solitude or seeking to understand this pervasive issue, this conversation promises to be enlightening and inspiring.

You can learn more about Monica through her website https://www.monikajiang.org/about

Produced by BMC Academy, www.bmcacademy.com. Mindfulness-Based Coach training with ICF certification.

Transcript

@0:07 - Dalida Turkovic 

So Monica, it is such a pleasure and treasure to actually spend a bit of time with you and hear from your wisdom and exchange about the topic that is really dear to me.

I will share a little bit that I know about you because we spend a lot of time together, but not necessarily in a very personal way, we are getting to know each other.

So what I know about you is that you are really a community builder and that you're working on a topic and gather people around the topic that is very close to your heart.

It's a topic related to loneliness, which is also very, very... Triggering topic for me, I have to say, it's been present in my life quite a bit through my life in China, which in Beijing, very transient place, big city, a lot of people, but community constantly living.

And the sense of rebuilding and reinstigating the community has been the theme of my pretty much 30 years of life in China.

And you're based in Berlin and you have connection to China as well. This is how much I will share.

I will not say more. I would really like to give you a chance to introduce yourself. And then we will talk about that topic of community and loneliness.

So, can you share a bit about yourself?

@1:57 - Monika Jiang

Yeah, wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed making also and getting to know you more.

What can I say about myself? I was born in Germany, two Chinese families who immigrated here, basically after the revolution in the 17th, early 80s.

I had a German-grade grandmother, which is the reason why my grandmother was actually born in grew up in China, was in Tianzhen, and my family then came back, one of the privileged, joyful little space of time.

Yes, and I guess that My experience is also very much connected with one side of loneliness in a way that I could experience in my life in terms of feeling like there's a longing, and there's a missing, and there's a lack of knowing of what this part of myself, of what this part of my identity is about in my history.

And my family, my ancestors, it feels very funny to me, this, particularly this Chinese side, because I was so socialized and brought up here in the Western world, and I spent my past years building community, and I'm learning how to do that, learning how to hold spaces and create experiences, particularly in the business context, that brought people together with ideas.

to think about the future and how to re-imagine business and re-imagine work, re-imagine the economy as something that is not just oriented around efficiency and profit and growth, but also about human capacities, about the generation, about life-centeredness, and so forth.

So that's been my journey of coming closer to, oh yeah, there's something in me that really loves to bring together people and bring together different kinds of people in a space where time stops for a moment and you are present with what is, and therefore you're able to connect with something deeper in yourself, but also with each other, and then something larger in the world.

So yes, and my latest project, I'm going to let them know that they're themselves together. over the past seven months has been around loneliness and in particular sort of raising awareness and helping to understand what modern loneliness is and also to help in that same vein, just understand how we can reconnect with ourselves, each other and in the world and what the possibilities will be for whether that is kind of lost or forgotten.

@5:31 - Dalida Turkovic 

Thank you so much and before we go into that topic of loneliness, I would just like to check in with you.

If you go back into time and think of that first event that somehow was the initiation to that realization, hey I am good in building the community, this is what they really do well how did that happen and what was the theme if you remember?

@6:01 - Monika Jiang

I mean, I remember that I was in a year of searching and like actively searching and seeking my prior work, which is all about purpose building leadership and work that has already guided me very much into the right direction.

So I had a sense of direction, but also I felt a little bit lost that year. And then I came across the House of Feudal for Business, which is the community and the fund that I was part of and that I helped build.

I remember distinctively that it was during this annual gathering that we was held in Portugal, and at that time I was just doing some social media content and I was just like freelancing, like tiptoeing around.

And I just had this moment where there was a program I didn't even know what was going on, we were all in this big, it was kind of a living moment, more like a salon kind of thing.

In this evening, it was packed, lots of people standing, sitting, it was kind of noisy. It was not the perfect slick business or corporate event, not at all.

It was very much alive and chaotic and messy and rich. And I just looked around and I just felt this sense of, okay, I want to stay here.

Like this is my place. think these are the people that I want to surround myself with. I can learn so much.

was this sense of like, wow, there's a whole world. And I need to immerse myself. want to contribute to something.

I want to be with these people that I don't even know. But it was just this intuition, I guess.

And this very clear like, okay, this is what I want to be. And that's what I did then.

@7:54 - Dalida Turkovic 

Fantastic. with full gratitude to your previous self.

@8:00 - Monika Jiang

How long? What goal? That was 2018.

@8:05 - Dalida Turkovic 

Right, yeah. It's six years ago. Yes, it's a lifetime. also knowing that in between we have exposure to COVID and everything that was happening.

tell me, how did that transition happen?

@8:24 - Monika Jiang

What did you do during the time of COVID knowing that you're mainly organizing events in person, right? Yes, exactly.

So that was a big switch obviously for most people. And I was very, very fortunate. I have to say now I'm looking back and not only having a job but also being able to keep that job to be.

I already worked remotely. There was not much of a shift for me to be honest in that regard. I think I'm very personal and working a little bit bubble.

And I just remembered. That was the second moment I was thinking of now when you just asked me that question, because that's also distinctive for me in April 2020, when we started to say, well, we can't host any in-person gatherings anymore, what are we going to do?

And then we started with Zoom, as everyone also did, and we started to host these living room sessions, what we call them.

And I just remember I was sitting, because I wasn't living in Berlin, I was sitting in a university library or something, and at that time I still able to go there, actually, just the first few weeks.

And I just within maybe an hour or so just typed up a list of topics and formats, and it was like, this is what we could do, right?

We could host a dance party, can do another conversation with this person, we can do a talk, can do a presentation, we can do some kind of an experiment.

on Zoom, like what's the most playful, imaginative, embodied way that we could bring to this embodied flat Zoom experience?

How can we create a container for people to, you know, for just a moment, have like a sense of community, connection, inspiration, and just taking a month of something and that was incredibly empowering in a way, because we were able to open the house, also like open the community, which is not possible before, you know, all the benefits of doing that on a global scale, having very different conversations, inviting completely different people into the space.

Later that year, a completely crazy four-day online festival, like four days. three nights, with the night programing and everything, and that was, before that we actually wanted to call our gathering the Great Wave, which was so eerie and weird, that then this actual wave of COVID hit, but we kept the name because we were telling it, this week, like there's something that is, you know, passing through this, we're in this moment, now.

So anyway, was a big moment also for me to realize, wow, I love this, I love to bring something to life that is maybe a little bit unusual, maybe even a little bit uncomfortable for some people, but mostly joyful and like opening, and at the same time brings very serious conversations out about the wave.

Well, so, yeah, that was another distinctive moment, guess, of feeling like there is so much there at the end.

I'm somewhere now, I learned some things, but there's still a lot of way to go into this direction.

@12:18 - Dalida Turkovic 

What was that curiosity about the way to go?

@12:29 - Monika Jiang

I guess, how can I be of service in a meaningful, valuable way, especially in moments, I mean, that was an exceptional moment, of course, in our time, but even in other moments where we may be feeling alone, may be feeling overwhelmed or disconnected somehow, not seeing anything.

how can I help to create those moments of those spaces where people feel like they have a place like they have a place to be there.

I guess that was sort of the curiosity. I think also that the moment is perfect or the sense of isolation and all of that, like just seeing if I think about that time, that that was something came to the surface I think for me as well to be like, oh wait a minute, what is beneath this experience and of course it is there before COVID.

@13:47 - Dalida Turkovic 

And I mean, I know that we both have been exploring this topic in some regard by participating recently in the diet program and learning how to administer that.

program and we can talk about that a little bit later. Could you share a bit about the aspect of loneliness as a global pandemic, let's say at the moment, or the offset of that pandemic, so that maybe those who are listening become a little bit more aware of the science behind it?

@14:24 - Monika Jiang

Yes, so based on the most recent research that I know of on a global scale, there's a sense that there is about a quarter of the world of adults in particular who are feeling very slowly or fairly lonely on a regular basis.

And if you look at the age range, what is most striking is that the group that feels, and we all feel that loneliness, but the group that feels most long

we tends to be younger people as in both sort of the teenage range around 16 to 18, but then particularly the one between 18 and 30-ish.

Then it goes a little bit down, and then the say senior citizens are elderly population, it's actually less, less than the young ones.

So it's really the young people who are increasingly feeling the loneliness and isolation that have a lot to do with technology, of course, and social media, but also without the world has become, yeah, in a way so much more atomized than how we live.

So I'm not saying that elderly people are not young, of course they are, but it's very striking to me that there's really a rising population,

young people who are, in my opinion, the most helpless in a way, and perhaps not unaware, but most people, and that's the issue with numbers and stats around loneliness, would not say that they're lonely, or they do not know that this feeling they have maybe is also connected to a sense of loneliness, this connection, alienation.

That's a little bit the tricky part. the nuance, right, of this experience goes into this. And then on a more collective level, societal level, there's those along with declining social trust, so trustless in institutions and governments in business, but also we trust less to each other.

So there's interesting numbers around very low percentage, 20% of so. People were asked in this study by Gallup who, you know, if they would live in the same neighborhood or work with a person that would have a different view on a socio-political issue and only 20% say yes, as in 80% say no.

Like, I don't want to be confronted with, you know, other views, other perspectives. I'm happy in my bubble. So that sense of distrust and othering, the politics of othering, creating this sense of I am here, we are here, and those are the other ones.

And not even allowing for any types of connection. But staying with the stereotypes, with the assumptions, with the judgments on both sides, right, is very much related to how I understand loneliness in today's context.

So yes, there is a part of that. on social connectedness. Yes, there is a huge part around health for physical and mental, and how that is related.

But also on a societal level, it's kind of a mirror on the backlash of at least, I can mostly put that in a Western industrialized countries.

We've gone way too far in this, in the aim of becoming more individual, self-sufficient people.

@18:36 - Dalida Turkovic 

Yeah, there's such complexity with the circles of the family level, on the community level, the nation, cities, nations, and then really humanity in general.

And also what you're talking about within the age group. and from a little that I know also this curiosity how much has technology caused this separation while actually the initial idea of using technology was all about connecting people with social networks and enabling people to be connected which really worked well during the pandemic as well as you say it really enabled us to stay connected but on this day to day life we are so alienating ourselves by seemingly being connected but actually not really going into the felt sense of connection there's something about the virtual world that is really helping us to disconnect from our own bodies really I'm really curious about that and another part that you mentioned that is about mental health

So there is a big impact on the mental health that is even compared with the the effect of smoking or and the death rate as well.

Can you share a little bit?

@20:19 - Monika Jiang

Yes, yeah, I mean mental health, it's and that's also obviously there is this technology and social media. I guess the way that we've integrated this, this virtual world and virtual way of connecting into our lives and into our culture.

It's the issues of the normalization of all of this that we think it is normal right to be in our phones all the time.

I'm not that I'm like also very much addicted to to my phone and I struggle with that. So yes, mental health, it has huge impact, obviously, the, the distance, I could say, from our own bodies, from ourselves, therefore, from other people that have been, yeah, negative consequences on, on our well-being on our health.

I mean, the rates of depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, suicide, or suicide attempts by, like, staggering, and, and again, especially for young people, not only, but especially for the youth in that room shopping, and, of course.

And at the same time, I think, in the way that I see the mental health crisis is very connected to this crisis of connection.

I do feel Yes, I mean, absolutely, it's important to treat the depression, example, or anxiety or, like, find ways to deal with it, absolutely, if I believe in that.

At same time, I feel it's not just a symptom, but it is kind of like a symptom of the crisis of connection.

So, yes, I can feel maybe my depression, right, that I have, but really deep down, I think in feeling that, I have to see, you know, who am I, how can I come back to a relationship with, an interrelationship with myself, with others, and, like, take deeper, I think it's just what I'm trying to say.

So, that's maybe something else that I'm seeing, right, where I just have worry that, again, we're normalizing, oh, yeah, that person has burnout, and, like, it's not even shopping anymore, you know?

Oh yeah, that person too, and like I'm gonna see my therapist. I also am in therapy and I love it, but I'm just trying to say I think we have to go a little bit deeper to see like how can we not self-perpetrate some of these kinds and really reconsider how are we in relationship?

What are the actual needs? Maybe this burnout is coming from a very different place that I'm expecting it to, right?

So crisis of connection helping me reconnect there I think is essential for understanding the mental and also physical health challenges.

@23:42 - Dalida Turkovic 

And what could be one little step deeper that we could go as we begin to explore this topic?

@24:00 - Monika Jiang

for me what is helpful is to basically consider you know sit for the question of is there something that I'm that I'm longing for in terms of what is that right so and I think if we can sit with that a little bit longer than just like oh yeah I'm longing to eat you know chocolate or whatever what is a real deep longing to be soon to be appreciated to get more meaning like why is that and then keep asking right or why what why what is this for you know where this has come from um I think on a deeper level we will discover that it is usually relational like of a relational nature

And many of us, whether it was from the mission to you or to other people, to other living beings, is certainly usually the longing that we all seek, right?

And then asking yourself, well, how can I make space for that? So, what is it? Is it really that time, for example, if I do feel disconnected, lonely, alienated, confused, overwhelmed, whatever, difficult emotion?

Is it because I need more time for myself and I need actually more space? Or do I actually want to connect and be in the relationship with other people?

Do I have to put myself more out there? Is it maybe different people? Have I grown apart from the friends that I have had for a decade and now I realize we're not, we still love each other, but maybe, you know, we don't have to spend that much time together anymore.

So, I think going to the deeper dimension the longing and the need and how to respond from there maybe can already be a step forward.

@26:10 - Dalida Turkovic 

So as you know this podcast is really aimed for for coaches who are looking at enhancing their practice and especially bringing mindfulness to it and my idea and especially inviting you for this conversation is to really help coaches understand when someone says I'm feeling lonely sometimes in these conversations we can as you say normalize it or if someone says I think I'm experiencing burnout and that it's like oh yeah tell me what's new right like we don't go into that sense of being alert and addressing certain topics and because coaches sometimes can override these topics that are really embedded in the culture.

or in our daily life, often people need to go and seek therapy as well. So that means already I am a little bit deeper into certain life experiences and I really need some support to get my ground back.

So if you were to kind of like give you characteristics of someone who is beginning to experience loneliness, in your experience, have you noticed some commonalities and what kind of behaviors would there be?

@27:43 - Monika Jiang

Yes, definitely. The tricky thing about loneliness is that it can be and often is a downward spiral. So people who tend to, I guess there's some people who would say, who would frame it like this,

or I'm independent, I don't need anybody, that kind of this avoidant attached person, I would be like I'm self-sufficient and therefore I also don't see value in opening myself to others, even though I deeply belong to, because we all do, of course I want to, you know.

So I think that mechanism when, I think when you see that as a signal where somebody is so self-protective and so proud also of this narrative of being one and not dependent in some sense, I think that's already a sign in a way, right, to inquire a little bit, like this is how you want to, you know, are you truly satisfied, is there something missing on, do you ever think about that, what about moments where you cope with moments of difficulty, you know, who you, you know, someone new.

something to talk to, to share this with. And usually those people, as I've found out, right, that those people, those people, these kinds of people tend to not talk to anyone and just wait until it's over.

Unless they have like a mindfulness practice or some kind of practice, but then they don't exercise. So that helps, but only I think in the short term.

Then this is one. And then there's another type, I would say that is more recognizing that already, like it's already deeper in the experience of loneliness and saying, I'm surrounded by, know, I don't, I don't, I don't have enough, like lack the quantity of meaningful relationships or the quality of meaningful relationships.

And the latter is more present. I would say these days, the lack of real meaningful connections, people that I can rely on, that I wouldn't feel that I'm a burden to share my suffering with or stress or rents or whatever.

So these people usually are more aware of that and they sometimes tend to go into the complaining mechanism, right?

Okay, that's the end of this person. I wish it was like this, wish it was like that. I'm feeling a little bit stuck with the actions that they have.

And here, I think the mechanism would be more of, okay, let's draw this out, right? draw your inner circle and then outer.

@30:55 - Dalida Turkovic 

You know, who do you want in?

@30:57 - Monika Jiang

It's a space for other people. Yes, and then I think there's so many different types of it, but this one is also quite common and also in terms of culture.

So normalized is that people who think, who completely distance themselves from those and say, no, I'm good, you know, I'm great.

have this and this and this and with my family and with my partner and with me. And I believe that I believe that some people experience a very little and that absolutely I believe in.

However, what I've discovered is also that, especially the romantic relationship and the tendency to be codependent on your partner.

And as I said, in the normalization of, well, I have a partner, therefore, everything is solved, all of my needs are met.

I have my community that is very, yeah, misleading. And I've seen or observed that there's often like a, yeah, like missing truth there.

Because of course, yes, a partnership is important and it can be very nourishing, but it's also not everything. It shouldn't be everything.

So I think that's another sign, right? somebody says like, yeah, I am all focused on this part of my life and my family, that's great.

But then how do you support yourself? How do you diversify? And it doesn't mean that you have to build three other deep relationships, but at least, right, some small connections here and there.

So the mutual support is outside of that romantic bond of two or a family. I think that's another other that I think I can see.

@32:56 - Dalida Turkovic 

And this is fantastic. I mean, in terms of an insight of how it can really present itself. you're also mentioning that word of codependency, which also I've been recently exploring quite a lot.

Can share a little bit about codependency? How can we? Because this is the situation. You mentioned two situations. we are surrounded with a close or tight community of long-term relationships where we have maybe trust is already there, what I'm hearing is that we are not exploring into a little bit of unknown and connecting with people that are outside of that very tight circle like family and long friends and relationship.

what could be some dynamics to show that codependency is present? Maybe just in a few words. know that the topic is huge actually.

I'd to explore that on some other part, but this can also increase loneliness, because, yeah.

@34:07 - Monika Jiang

Yeah, I think it speaks to the, to two things maybe, to one is the idea of sameness and valuing sameness,-same, more than embracing differences.

And then the other, I think, is the dependent parts of the dependency on satisfying other people's needs, the dependency on, without this person, I cannot, right?

Or I'm, it is easier to follow, and I've 100% been in this position, absolutely. And I'm still learning, it's not easy, because there are, especially for people who aren't even more consciously attached, like it's very easy to question, okay, I'm just learning, you know, whatever you say in a work context, know, right?

the boss in a romantic relationship with friends so it's in all ways so I think those two things like how can we embrace differences not only by bonding and deepening relationships that exist but also bridging like seeking outside of our bubble making the effort and the effort is needed like it takes some effort you can't just wait in your room and be like I hope that a bird is going to fly by and you know befriend me and question all of the biases and assumptions that I have you know about this particular topic that's not going to happen but to seek that out I think to closely go into an event that you wouldn't ever go to right or to well you make use of your neighborhood or seek out a different one and put yourself in a different local context I think put yourself in touch quite immediately

is really important and by that I think we can also navigate the sense of self and the sense of other and find more like an intimate dependence rather than a cold dependence.

@36:14 - Dalida Turkovic 

Right and as we are stepping into that there is another another theme I think that I've been hearing a lot and that is especially amongst younger generations and that is social awkwardness.

Right so I can see almost the social awkwardness being such a barrier into getting the courage to go and not be perfect in how we appear because there's such an expectation which again I believe social media has such a big role all of these likes and how we appear that we are you know proper or even going into the

the other extreme, and saying show yourself completely imperfect and use foul language and just to attract the attention. So that's where I'm sensing there's no depth in connecting.

It's more about drawing attention, right? Doesn't resolve anything about sense of connection and togetherness on contrary, it's also almost deepening the sense of loneliness.

@37:32 - Monika Jiang

Yeah, I agree with that. It's almost like a, you know, performative way. Yeah, social awkwardness is definitely a thing.

of anxiety, which goes together a little bit, being inches up, and that goes back to the pandemic years, but also absolutely just us living in the civil.

world, especially younger people feeling very uncomfortable and just untrained in going up to a person in person where falling someone on the phone.

struggled with that as well. Going into a room where you don't know anyone and being like, okay, how does this work?

Like, what are the social comments here? Like, I don't know. Is anybody going to show me or, you know, it's just, that's awkward.

It's weird. And then the fear of being judged, being misunderstood, of being put in a box, I think the person in hand, and therefore to say, you know what, I'll just not go.

I'll just stay in. I will not even engage because the risk to humiliate myself when I just feel awkward or whatever to be seen by that so-and-so.

it's not worth anything to, to, again. and to normalize that right and to normalize and help normalize these awkward moments as well and embracing them almost right to say like and that's what I usually say right is in this age of AI and in technology where everything is flattened and perfected and there is no friction there is no awkwardness because Chachi becomes so fast to figure the answer and it's perfect you know and you're like well that is not human life human is that goes around and talks about this and that and is sometimes reliable sometimes not so sometimes says things that they regret right and and they are awkward moments yeah and it's uncomfortable and it's really you can laugh about it I mean that's how we grow I think and that's what we should be I feel like and or there's an opportunity to embrace these kinds of moments in order to keep what what makes us

And therefore help others who may be struggling with those moments in particular, right? lastly, I want to say that if it speaks to the need for learning those skills, learning those connection skills, learning those, how do I do this?

How can I still be me in a weird networking environment where everybody is like offered and I don't know anyone, right?

So how do I do this? Very practically, and I think it's a great need for that, not just for young people, for all of us.

@40:40 - Dalida Turkovic 

Absolutely, I think that we are seeking, as you're mentioning with the whole AI, we are seeking for that perfection, that there is, you know, step A and then there's step B and then it's finished.

The journey, the conclusion is there. And it's almost like life not well lived without richness. We don't colour some movies that maybe I was trying to bring that topic is pleasant wheel or the Truman Show where there's this like beautiful time of politeness and everything.

But that is a killer for a relationship and collaboration as well. To collaborate, we really need to open up to conflicts.

And you're mentioning this word learning and growth and it is fascinating. Somebody recently I also heard say stop expecting in relationships to be this.

I met a soulmate and everything is going to be perfect and just accept. Relationships are messy, they are there to push your buttons all the time.

And rather embrace that that is happening so that, you know, what are you learning? How is the relationship growing?

growing. And in mindfulness practice we also expect that meditation is going to be we close our eyes and then it's all this beautiful world but actually that is the moment when we really see ourselves and that inner and internal mass.

And there is something beautiful about learning how these processes really can enrich our life experience and bring the wisdom, move from knowledge into wisdom really because that's really what I'm seeing.

So thank you I'm so inspired with what you're sharing and I'm like oh yeah and this is it and this is how it all connects.

And also really I hear people wanting this alone time, me time, an introvert, extrovert, and I really wish and hope that we begin to remove that

label because we are getting so settled in like, oh, I'm an introvert and that's just how it is and.

@43:09 - Monika Jiang

Right, I so relate with that. I'm so tired of this. I wasn't really tired because it's such a binary again.

And it's not, it's just not a binary. mean, there's, um, I just actually wrote, uh, my newsletter on the value of a long time and what I've been learning about myself and also with art of codependency and other things.

And there's this book that I mentioned is called in, in solitude. And they debunk that myth amongst other other insights that there is no correlation whatsoever of people being either inspection of introversion or extroversion more or less of spending more or less time alone.

It's just people who do that, who spend significant time alone and carve out that time consciously, but have better quality relationships.

They're more able to regulate their emotions, and therefore increasing their well-being and being responsible for that. mean, sounds good to me, but yes, I agree.

We need to, again, get the nuances, right? It's not solitude and loneliness, another binary, right? I'm trying to soften and say, it's great that we have that word in English, but it's not the case for all languages, and maybe we have to soften that as well.

There's aloneness and loneliness and togetherness, and it's all kind of like a spectrum, in a way, it's more interactive than we might want it to be.

it's not so easy to put it in a certain box and take it out and fix it.

@45:08 - Dalida Turkovic 

Absolutely. another one is that so many things are left for personal interpretations. So there's one really absolutely inspiring moment in humanity, in the history of humanity.

And that is that all these resources are out and open. So a little anecdote, had my meditation teacher at a certain time listening about my struggles and he said, okay, I have a mantra for you.

So and it was mantra. I didn't understand the words or anything. It was in Hindu. So he was telling me how to write it and everything and how to sing it.

And then he said, so this is the name of the mantra. And of course, when I went back home, I googled it and I found

YouTube video with a mantra, many versions of mantra, right? And of course, the next time I met him, I said, you know, like you gave me this word, but actually it's not correct because on YouTube it goes like this, right?

He just looked at me and said, I mean, it is just thinking of that.

@46:21 - Monika Jiang

I'm like, oh my God, what have I done?

@46:24 - Dalida Turkovic 

How much composure does he have in order to deal with all my, yeah, right? So here is someone, you know, who says I would ask him a question and he would just look at me and say, you know, Dalida, I traveled across Himalayas for 15 years to find the answer to the question that you are asking.

And, you know, it took me 15 years to find the person who was going to answer it.

@46:55 - Monika Jiang

So I'm going to tell you the answer, but just so you know, it took me 15 years, right?

@47:00 - Dalida Turkovic 

Maybe the answer I know he did.

@47:01 - Monika Jiang

I remember that part.

@47:04 - Dalida Turkovic 

Don't remember my question. So the answer is lost. I don't remember the answer either because it came so easily, right?

It did not take any effort. And so, you know, now I'm seeing so many people are going and saying like, Oh, it is like this, it's like that, but we don't really put an effort to really cultivate the, the learning and integrate it into life because it's not really easy to do that, right?

Like, so it's to walk the talk. And there are many, many traps. And I know in mindfulness meditation as well.

So we go and really interpret a lot by ourselves. What does it mean when I'm sitting alone and meditating?

And maybe our ego is creating states of acceptance? Well, actually, we are totally not accepting or the state of interconnection and equanimity will actually be angry at the first time of someone saying something against what I'm talking about.

And so there is more and more, I believe there is this need for us to sit together in circles or to connect even in our meditation.

And recently we've been exploring the diet practice and how powerful it is to bring that sense of connection and sharing the space with just some prompts.

And I know you are beginning your journey of now offering that to the community and you're just about to begin a program as well.

We've been going through being trained teachers. Would you like to share a little bit about your program and what are you hoping to get by teaching the diet?

@49:00 - Monika Jiang

Yeah, I mean, I think the diet practice is definitely the first practice that I've catch on June and that I didn't stop after the first wave of excitement because, and that is definitely part of it, because there is another person, of course, the only way this practice will.

And also the way that you're learning it in this nine-week program that we're both about to teach is so much more than a tool or a method and here's how it works.

Here's the script. You're not going to be able to do a lot with that script if you haven't had the context and exploration in community again of, yeah, the diet practice is here to help us deal with difficult emotions, but what

are difficult emotions. Honestly, what are emotions anyway? You know? And why are we exploring gratitude? Why not joy? Why not happiness?

What is it about gratitude? What is gratitude? I had such an epiphany moment. I remember in my program of like, wow, now I know what gratitude is.

And that was very eye-opening for me. So, this practice, a 15-minute practice, where the daily one, a little different part in every week, then this really helps to cultivate those capacities that we touched on, a little bit of presence and resilience, then also mostly epiphany and compassion.

So really the basis of emotional and social skills, how do we relate? How do I relate with myself, with myself?

How can I be with myself, even if it's difficult, even if I don't have a lot of compassion or forgiveness or patience with myself?

And how can I do so with others? So, yeah, it's been incredibly transforming for me. I have to say, because I just feel the difference.

I'm trying to think of like, what are other things that I've changed? And there may be some other things that I've changed in the past few months for sure, but I'm much more able to regulate, I'm much more able to take a step back, not explode immediately, not go into the fight and flight mode.

I'm more present, I'm more able to trust and tune in to what is, yeah, it's, I could talk about this, I will practice.

And I think I am a good example amongst others to say, if you don't have any experience in mindfulness or meditation or other,

practices, or you feel like that sounds weird. Why would I share something with a stranger? It's about my soul and heart and whatever.

Try it. And it's accessible. It's accessible for anyone who has such a big benefit. yeah, I'm looking forward to bringing that in October with online and in person in Berlin for a group.

that's going to be the first journey. then we'll see where to go from there.

@52:33 - Dalida Turkovic 

Right. Thank you so much, Monica. And we will share the way how people can connect with you. Is there anything else you would like to share as we complete this, kind of like touching the tip of the iceberg?

And as you're saying, such a deep topic, there's so much in there.

@52:55 - Monika Jiang

Yeah. And I thank you so much. I really enjoy this.

@52:59 - Dalida Turkovic 

Stimulating for me. Yes. And as I know, you're just about to settle your sales and go into Asia and explore a bit of China and kind of like go on a journey there.

I wish you a happy, happy travel and may you connect with many people there knowing that, you know, you're really walking the talk and putting yourself in a different context.

And then you will be going to Plum Village as well to spend some time in retreat. So you will be connecting with another community yet.

So, so inspiring. I would love to hear how that was when you come back and perhaps we can connect again.

@53:42 - Monika Jiang

Definitely. Wonderful.

@53:47 - Dalida Turkovic 

Thank you.

@53:54 - Monika Jiang

you