What To Do When You Know Your Security Is Threatened {Carol Tetzlaff}

Suppose you're traveling and you know there are thieves up ahead. You also know you've got lots of cash and valuables on your person. What should you do?

This is basically the scenario we all face every day. We're living in a dangerous world. Life has risk around every turn. As we embark on new legs of the journey, what should we do to prepare for the unknown risks up ahead?

We're going to consider God's perspective on those questions as we look at a lesser known story in our Bibles found in the book of Ezra.

Guest: Carol Tetzlaff

Bible Passage: Fasting and Prayer for Protection - Ezra 8

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Mentioned Resources

• Ezra: Unleashing the Power of Praise by: Carol Tetzlaff
• More than Just a Word by: Carol Tetzlaff
• Angels by Amy Grant

Carol Tetzlaff
Carol is an author, speaker, and co-owner of Redemption Press. Her passion is discipleship of all ages as she has served many years on staff at the local church in every capacity from kids’ ministry to worship ministries. Discipling has sifted from the local church to authors around the world as they partner together to spread the message of the gospel.

She is married to Kelley, and they have eleven fun and super cute grands. They have the best life ever together in Gilbert, Arizona. She also loves super-sweet iced coffee, spending time with friends, shopping at boutiques, and the color yellow. Finding a cute pair of shoes … on sale…  can make a good day even better.

Carol is the author of the 2022 Selah Award Bible Study winner,  Ezra: Unleashing the Power of Praise.

Connect with Carol
Website: CarolTetzlaf.com
Instagram: @Carol_Tetzlaff
Facebook: @caroltetzlaff

Shaped by God's Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith 
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Comparison Girl for Teens
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Get our free "Pray God's Promises" prayer guide.

Go to Shannonpopkin.com/PROMISES/ for more information on my neww Bible study, Shaped by God’s Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith. 

Visit ResoundMedia.cc for the Live Leadership Podcast, along with other Gospel centered resources.

Transcript

Shannon: 1:40

Okay, here's your scenario You're traveling, you've got lots of luggage with you and in your luggage you've got lots of valuables, and up ahead you're pretty sure there are some people who want to rob you. What should you do about these risks, these dangers? Well, you might not think of it this way, but isn't that kind of the scenario that we face every day? I mean, we're living in a dangerous world. Life has risk around every single turn and as we embark on new legs of the journey of life, what should we do to prepare for these unknown risks that we face every single day? Well, we're going to consider God's perspective on these questions as we look at a lesser-known story in our Bibles found in the book of Ezra. And I have joining me my friend Carol Tetzlath.

Shannon: 2:28

Carol is an author, a speaker and co-owner of Redemption Press. She has a passion for discipling people of all ages and she's served in both women's ministry, children's ministry and worship ministry at her church. Carol and her husband Kelly live in Gilbert, arizona, and they have 11 fun and super cute grand. She is the author of a seven-week Bible study on Ezra called Unleashing the Power of Praise. I just love my dear friend Carol. I'm so excited to introduce her to you today as we talk about this important question. What do you do when you know that your security is threatened? Carol Tetzlath, welcome to Live Like it's True.

Carol: 3:20

Well, thank you, shannon, for having me. I'm so excited to be here Well you and I are dear friends.

Shannon: 3:25

I love having my Bible study friends here on the show. We're going to have a great conversation today. I want to hear the story about when you were heading out on a missions trip and all your stuff got stolen, can you?

Carol: 3:37

tell us that story? Yeah for sure. So when I was in college, I was in a singing group and we basically would tour the United States in the summer and we would just recruit for the school, and so we would meet on a Monday morning and we would practice all week long before we left on this tour. And we got to Thursday night and finished our final practice and we were going to do this big party on Friday before we took off on Saturday. And we woke up Friday morning and went into the chapel and everything was either stolen or destroyed. All of our equipment, our sound equipment was gone, the drums were all bashed in, our keyboards were taken. Everything was just destroyed and we had to figure out how do we get everything ready for that concert that night but, more importantly, to leave, because we had a very busy schedule for the next three months.

Shannon: 4:26

So this is like a send-off concert and then you're going to be heading out for three months touring and you've got no equipment.

Carol: 4:32

We have no equipment and so in the panic moments you know, we started making phone calls. Our leader finally said, hey, everyone, let's gather together and let's pray. And that prayer wasn't just him praying by himself, but he brought us together to corporately just lift our needs to God. And that day we were able to find everything we needed, even some of the things, the exact replacement because you know keyboards they have different sounds and be able to find everything we needed to do that concert that night and then to be sent off. And I think it actually bonded us together as a team and made our summer even sweeter because of watching what God did that day.

Shannon: 5:11

Wow, that's amazing. I think there's something about traveling and the unknowns. I don't know if you've ever traveled in other countries, but that particularly makes me nervous, because you don't know the language and you don't really even know the risks. So I have a story too. Now this is a story a little bit different than yours.

Shannon: 5:33

When we were traveling, my family and I went to Guatemala and we served like a missions trip the first week and then the second week we were going to just stay and do a vacation. So some of the missionaries from week one helped arrange our travel for week two, because they knew different locals who did transportation and stuff like that. So they had set up rides both to our hotel and from. So on the last day we're getting ready to pack up and go and they had told us that, let's say, his name was Pedro. I can't remember his name, but so Pedro is going to pick us up at 11 and take us back to the airport. Well, we didn't know exactly how much we were supposed to pay him and we couldn't get a hold of anybody, and so we just talked to a group of like taxi drivers at the street corner. They would just be everywhere and they'd be offering to take you places. And so we said, hey, like how much would it cost for a ride to the airport, just so that we knew how much to pay Pedro. So we went, got coffee and then we packed up and we're getting ready to go. We go out just a little before 11. And my daughter spoke some Spanish, so she was sort of our quasi translator. She was laughing like I, basically no kindergarten level. So she says to the guy oh, are you Pedro? Like yeah, so he loads up our stuff and takes us to the airport.

Shannon: 6:53

And our phones didn't work cause we didn't have cell service. But so when we got to the airport and our phones connected with wifi, they started exploding. There are all of these messages and voicemails and all of this. I'm like what is going on? Our missionary friends were trying to get a hold of us because the guy that they had hired to take us to the airport had arrived and we were already gone. So somebody stole our business. You know, like somebody from that street corner heard that we needed to the airport and arrived before the other guy and stole our business and thankfully that's all he stole. They were very worried because this happens, you know, you get kidnapped and then, you know, exploited for money and stuff, and they were worried that that's what had happened to us, and we had no idea. You know, we were just traveling along in our little van, like completely oblivious that this guy was not who we thought he was. You know, transporting our family.

Shannon: 7:46

I can't remember if we prayed before we left. Often we do. I don't know if we did.

Shannon: 7:53

Sometimes I think, though, what you got to experience with your story is like you knew there was danger. You know, you, you were very aware that there were people who would like to destroy things and hurt you, hurt the cause of your mission. So you were praying, purposefully, I think. Sometimes we feel like we forget how much danger there is. We forget to pray. We're even unaware of the ways that God protects us. So the story we're going to talk about today, I think it's one of those stories where they didn't know the risks. They knew there were dangers out there and they needed to rely on God to protect them. So, carol, we're going to be talking about Ezra today. This is a story from Ezra 8.

Shannon: 8:35

And here's your beautiful book, such a lovely Bible study. It's called Ezra Unleashing the Power of Praise, a seven-week Bible study being broken into beautiful through worship. I just love the concept of this book. I love how you wrote it. It's very aesthetically beautiful. I love how there's space on the pages. You're just a really great Bible study writer, so I'm so proud of you, thank you.

Carol: 9:01

Yeah yeah. Ezra just became such a prevalent role his teaching in my life as I was going through really lots of challenges, and this story in particular really did stick out to me in the circumstance that I found myself in, and so I hope today that Azure listeners are engaging with us, that they will find some value and truth within their own lives.

Shannon: 9:22

Yeah, so set us up. What kind of situations does this story speak to?

Carol: 9:26

Yeah, well, it talks to the unknown. For sure, just like you were saying, is it being in a foreign country and traveling gives you unknown? Well, we have people that are going to be setting off on an adventure and they don't know. And I think that the one thing we have when we read scripture is we know the end of the story, but we really have to insert ourselves into the lives of the people, because they are embarking on a journey where there is danger all around them and they didn't know the end, and they knew that the enemies, the other nations, did not want them to go back to Jerusalem. And so, just really touching on the point that God, if he calls you to do something, he is going to be big enough to handle any circumstance that comes your way.

Shannon: 10:10

Yeah, but also true, he puts us in situations where we have lots of unknowns. So if you're facing an unknown today, the story's for you. I just need us to give a little background for Ezra. It's one of those books in my Bible that does not have as many notes in the margins and not as many words underneath. Now it does more now because we're having this conversation, so I studied it a bit this week. I was so intrigued, carol, when I opened the first pages of Ezra. Like, the people of Israel have been captured and taken into exile in Babylon and there is this Persian king named Cyrus who comes into power and decides to send the people of Israel back to their hometown Jerusalem and give them supplies to rebuild their temple. Like that is amazing. That's an astonishing part of the story, is it not?

Carol: 10:58

It is well. Cyrus is a politician, and politicians love to make their people happy, so they'll follow them and do what they say, and so God used that mindset of Cyrus for his glory and not for Cyrus's.

Shannon: 11:10

Yeah, interesting right. You know, god does hold the heart of the king. So this is an example of that. We're going to jump into a part of the story where a group of people living in Babylon for years and years and they're headed to Jerusalem, tell us where we are in the timeline.

Carol: 11:25

Yeah, so the people we're talking about today is actually the second group of people that are heading to Jerusalem. The first group went about 70 years before that and they have already built the temple. It took them a long time and they had a lot of difficulties and challenges, with the enemy attacking them and them even attacking each other with their doubts and discouragement, and all of that. And so the temple is built and the people are living life, but things are happening in Jerusalem that are not pleasing to God. So God calls Ezra from Babylon in his life there. So Ezra has been raised in captivity.

Carol: 11:57

The only thing he really knows about Jerusalem and the temple is what he's learned from his parents. And I love when Ezra is introduced, because the book has his name but he's not actually introduced to like chapter six, and in that chapter we hear that Ezra did three things that he studied the word, he taught the word and he lived the word. And that's why God chose him to come back, because he was an example of what the scriptures taught people how to live and how to worship. So he was worshiping even without a temple, and he understood worship isn't about a place, it's about an attitude of your heart towards your God, and so we're entering into it with him, now gathering a group of people to come back to then teach what God is saying.

Shannon: 13:21

Which is interesting, you know, thinking of someone who hasn't even lived among them for 70 years, right Coming to teach them. But what I thought was interesting too at the beginning of chapter eight is he's gathering this group of people to go back and he's kind of taking inventory of everybody and he's like wait a minute, where are all the priests? Where are all the Levites? Ezra is a priest, right, right. And he's noticing like wait, we got no priests here. There were about, I think, 1500 men who were heading back, but not enough priests. So he like sends a guy and he's like we need priests. So they get a bunch more priests who are going to go with them. What do you make of that? Why does he need priests with them?

Carol: 14:01

Because Ezra was a student of the word. He knew the Levitical laws and how the tribe of Levi had to provide the offerings and all the things for the temple. He was going back to really reestablish their worship that they had kind of fallen away from. And if you keep reading, ezra doesn't actually end very well because they're all married foreign women. So he's going back to really help create within the people that really are following after God. But he needs the Levitical priests to come and not every Levite is a priest and every priest is a Levite. So they had to have people from the tribe of Levi and he's realizing I don't have anyone except me and I can't do it all. Wow.

Shannon: 14:39

Why do you think the others didn't sign up to go? I mean, it sounds like people were going because God was stirring their hearts. Did God not stir the hearts of these Levites, or did he want to make a point by delaying? I mean?

Carol: 14:51

that possibly could be it, I think even at the very first return of the exiles. You know, so often we get placed in a situation where we are captive. But once we're there long enough, we kind of become comfortable and so we start living there. And I think it happened in both circumstances where people just got comfortable living in Babylon. They had made a life for themselves, it was going well, they had a home, their kids were in school, they had their friends and, you know, their family was there. So why upset everything? And so perhaps when he was calling out for people to come, the tribe of Levi didn't really capture the need and the necessity for them to be a part of that journey.

Shannon: 15:30

Yeah, that just makes me think. You know, my grandparents came to Michigan from Arkansas and so this has been at least 70 years since they moved here. If I was told right now that, oh well, god wants you to move to your roots like that would be hard for me. I am way more established here in Michigan than in Arkansas, even though I love Arkansas, I love my relatives down there, but it would be a huge uprooting right.

Carol: 15:55

And they're people just like us, like they had their home and they had their friends, and who wants to leave? I mean, when we have friends that leave, there's a lot of tears that are shed and there's a lot of like, just this feeling of so much loss and grieving, and so they're not just a story where these people are getting up and leaving and going. There's a lot of angst within it and a lot of discerning Like is this really the right decision for my family and can we make a life in Jerusalem? Jerusalem, it's still kind of in rubble, right? Yeah, I mean, the walls are still down. There's danger. So why would I take my family out of the safety of Babylon to a place where there's danger?

Shannon: 16:29

Yeah, so that really underlines how astounding it is that there are 5,000 people. If you add in now these new priests and women and children, there are 5,000 people going back. Now that's way less than the first trip back was like 40-something thousand, right, but 5,000 people are getting ready to go back to Jerusalem and they've got a bunch of stuff with them. Tell us what they've got with them.

Carol: 16:52

Yeah, well, the king actually gave them all the things that they would need in order to help them offer the sacrifices, as well as money, which is a blessing, because when they get back and they want to establish worship, they're going to need the items in order to have proper worship according to the laws that they were given. So, yeah, the king just gave them everything, but it's worth a lot of money, and so that actually did bring them some danger too, as they were going back.

Shannon: 17:15

Yeah, it lists out in the text how many talents of silver and gold. I counted out 52,500 pounds of gold and silver, like that's a lot. Now they have 5,000 people to carry it, but that's 100 pounds per person. It's a lot. I mean, I think they have beast suburdain, right, but that is a lot to carry and a lot of wealth that they are transporting. And also, I wanted to mention there are a lot of gifts that have been sent to from the other people who aren't going back. They're carrying back sacrifices. It'd be like hey, put this in the offering for me today. So they're going to be traveling back. So could you read for us the part of the text that we want to focus on? I know we spent a lot of time setting this up, but I just figured, listener, you might need a little help with Ezra. Not all of us, like Carol, have done a thorough job of studying Ezra. So this is Ezra 821-23. Can you read those verses first?

Carol: 18:11

Then I proclaimed a fast there this is Ezra talking at the river of Ahabbi that we might humble ourselves before our God to seek Him for a safe journey for ourselves, our children and all our goods. For I was ashamed to ask the King for a bond of soldiers and a horseman to protect us against the enemy on our way, since we had told the King the hand of our God is good on all who seek Him and the power of His wrath is against all who forsake Him. So we fasted and implored our God for this, and he listened to our entirety".

Shannon: 18:44

So what makes this a story worth telling? What's interesting here?

Carol: 18:48

I really believe that within this story we can find ourselves, because we all embark on something unknown, as we talked about earlier, and when we can see a biblical character and how they face the unknown and they face it head-on and not let it deter what God has asked them to do, then they are able to and we are able to accomplish what God has asked us to do.

Shannon: 19:12

Yeah, do you think it's interesting that they're getting ready to go and he says, hey, stop, let's fast.

Carol: 19:19

I think it's interesting, yes, but I don't think that it's out of the norm, because Ezra, as we know, probably had that practice in his life.

Shannon: 19:25

But what I?

Carol: 19:26

love is that he didn't just go in his tent and fast, but that he brought the people along, because this certain passage that we just read really shows how important it is for us to bring our family along on that journey, to bring the people that we serve with along on that journey of really imploring God and the throne and asking for exactly what we need, because when we leave them out of it, they don't see the beauty of God's answer within it.

Shannon: 19:52

That's true, yeah, so this is a corporate thing. He's asking everybody to fast. Where I was kind of thinking is, man, if you're getting ready for a long trip, fasting kind of makes you weak, you know. So like, load up this 52,000 pounds on an empty. You know you've been fasting. Does it say how long they fasted?

Carol: 20:09

It doesn't say how long, but I think too, when we read it in context, we recognize that they had started out on the journey. They recognized that they were missing people, so they were kind of camped out at this point, and so I really think that, like this was just like okay, now we got our priests and we're ready to go. Oh wait, we're walking into danger. So let's just be still and let's settle in. But I never thought of it the way that you said, that they could have been fasting as they go. I thought of it more as a time of corporate fasting before they left.

Shannon: 20:39

Doesn't really say yeah, I think it is before. I just think like you're going to need your strength. You know, eat up so you're not hungry, and this is going to be like a four month trip, so it's not as though they're going to take a day to get there. But yeah, I think, man, what I'm noticing is Ezra has some spiritual sensitivity to go a little way and recognize like we're missing some people, like you said, and we got some danger ahead of us. We need to stop and fast. I love that he says that we collectively might humble ourselves before our God to seek from him a safe journey for ourselves, our children and our goods. Like we need to collectively stop and humble ourselves. That should be part of what we regularly do, especially when we embark on something new. Yeah, stop, humble ourselves, ask our God, seek from him safety. Sometimes I do think we missed that step, don't you think?

Carol: 21:32

I do, actually, and I think that there's even a step before that is Ezra recognized where he was leading his people. So, as leaders and as leaders of our family or whatever it is that you're leading, we need to recognize where we're taking people. And that way it gives us the pause to consider okay, what do we need to do to prepare for this step of our journey? Because Ezra didn't want to ask the King for protection. I'm sure that people around him are like we have a lot of money with us, like we should ask the King for soldiers, too, to come alongside us. And he's like I just spent the last, however, long convincing the King that God's hand is on us. And if I go back, then what does that say about our God? And so he reminds them the hand of God is upon us. And if you read Ezra is like six, seven, eight you see that phrase every you know section. It's talking about what's happening in their life. The hand of God is upon me. What's happening? The hand of God is upon me.

Shannon: 22:24

Yes. So fasting is really appealing to God. It's a humbling of yourself, both fasting and prayer. I do prayer a lot more often than fasting, but it's saying we really rely on you, not ourselves and in this case, not the King. I've started, carol. Before I speak somewhere, I have started asking my event planners if we can set aside some time to pray together. I see myself as a leader in that situation. You know I'm going to be leading women to the word and have a message prepared for them, and I was actually challenged in a small group by Nancy DeMaswagamuth to be doing that. I was really convicted.

Shannon: 23:03

You know, sometimes I'll say to the event planner hey, can we, can we gather to pray before we get started? And sometimes it would happen and sometimes it wouldn't, because you know in that moment you're so busy, you know you've got to get the punch ready, you've got to get whatever. And I just recognize like, okay, no, we got to back up a month or two months and set some serious time aside to pray. And I have noticed a difference Just in my heart for what's coming. Yes, just even being able to connect with the people, like I think there's something about doing it Collectively, corporately, we're just on a zoom call, but God is moving my heart for these particular women and their particular group and their struggle, who they represent. You know, it's just been really precious. That's a pattern in scripture, right?

Carol: 23:50

Right, I, I agree and I am very careful. You know when I'm at the event. We pray before I go on the platform and and if I see someone that I know is gonna be going up on the platform like have you been prayed with yet?

Carol: 24:02

You know, because some people don't really think about it because in the busyness. But I also think fasting is important as well and I will tell you that I was never really in the practice of fasting and one of my best friends here in Arizona Shared with me and it's in my Bible study about how she and her husband fasted 40 days when their daughter was so Sick and they were just praying and asking God for a miracle in her life and I'm like how in the world? And they've done it twice.

Shannon: 24:27

I wasn't even sure that was physically possible. 40 days, I mean. Jesus did it three days.

Carol: 24:32

I mean they had water and was like a complete nothing fast. But she said there were times where they were so weak and it was just like they just depended on God for everything. And you see it playing out because right now she's waiting for a kidney transplant and her faith is so strong and it's because she instilled in herself these habits of you know I'm gonna come before the Lord because he is the only one that has can satisfy me. I love food, so it's really hard to fast Like I love for a while and I still do it every once in a while. But before I have an event like the day or two before, I will fast for a day or two and Really just pray. And you know I still go about my daily life. It's not like I'm sitting in a corner just praying all day long.

Carol: 25:12

But, it really gives you cause to just take a step back and just realize who you're dependent on. Yeah, and I know, when I do take the time to fast, that whatever comes next is so much more Fulfilling and I see God in such a greater way than when I'm just so busy going about my regular days. And then I get to the event and I do it and I move on because it's giving me a chance to pause.

Shannon: 25:32

Yeah, but I hear you saying it's giving up food. That has to do with my stomach, but there's something about not having something in my stomach that helps me see, like this friend of yours waiting for her daughter, like she sees God at work. Right, she has this faith to see beyond what we can actually see, and that's what you're noticing. Like God is at work in a hundred ways around us all the time, but sometimes we're so busy and so Consumed with life that we fail to see his protection, we fail to see him working. You know, he's doing these miracles, even these supernatural things, and we can miss them if we're not praying for them or if we're not even making ourselves aware. Looking for God's hand Fasting opens our eyes to see the supernatural. I think, yeah, we're gonna see that in this story. Talk more, though, about the part he was ashamed to ask the king for soldiers Like is that a good sort of shame or a bad sort of shame? What do you think?

Carol: 26:57

I actually think it's a good kind of shame, because he doesn't want his Life and the testimony that he has brought before the king to have any ill effect, because God is in pursuit of everyone, even a pagan king, yeah, and so if he would have come back and said I Really want some soldiers to come with us, the king would have been like I thought your God was big enough. And so it's this. Like I don't want to become ashamed by coming before the king, I want to live out what I've already told him is possible by my God.

Shannon: 27:31

Yeah, okay, let me see if I can come up with an example. It'd be like you know, they're coming out with new self-driving cars and saying, well, this thing will drive for you, but we really just need you to keep your hands on the wheel Just in case. Like it's gonna drive for you. But that's sort of like what Ezra the priest has been telling this king. Like no, our God will take care of us, you don't have to worry, he's gonna protect us. Um, can you send some soldiers in he's? And so he's like no, I'm not gonna do that. And it's really a matter of testimony, right, mm-hmm? And God is concerned with his name. He's concerned with the testimony that his people have about him in the world. Like that's really, our job is to go out into all the world and tell people who he is by how we live.

Carol: 28:14

And that's why the prayer and fasting prayer specifically, though, for us, because that's our practice, that we typically go to, and not always fasting but that's why it's so important, because God knew what was gonna happen. The outcome was going to be that they were gonna arrive safely, but Ezra and the people didn't know. So when we pray, the outcome is still there, but it tethers our heart to the father so that when that prayer is answered, no matter what it is, we know it's from him and we know that even if a bad outcome is in front of us, that he's there in it. But if we don't first really recognize God in it, then when we get to the bad it's really hard to go through. But when we know that God's there too, then we can push forward in whatever it is that comes our way.

Shannon: 28:58

Yeah, I love that you brought that up, because we aren't promised safe travels in every part of our journey in life. Right, sometimes we pray for safety and there's a car accident on the way, like devastating things. We live in a dangerous world. This world is not heaven. It's broken, it's corrupt. There are evil people in the world, people who would steal from us and hurt us and even kill us. Those people exist and sometimes terrifying things happen. I love that you just said we tether our heart to God in prayer. That's a beautiful picture of prayer and that way we know that wherever we are in the journey and wherever it leads, we are tethered to God, like he hasn't let us go, even when bad things do happen. He does allow hard, terrible things to happen. I mean, look at Jesus. Jesus was crushed. If we ever wonder, does God allow his children to go through suffering?

Carol: 29:51

Well, look at all the people that went through really challenging times that were following permanently after God.

Shannon: 29:58

Yeah, exactly. But it is appropriate for us, as we head into a journey of one sort or another, to do exactly what Ezra did here, corporately to do it. I love that you brought up the corporate aspect. I underlined these verbs humble, to seek God, to fast and to implore. So we fasted and implored our God for this, and he listened to our entreaty. Let's just dream what listeners might be heading into this season. Maybe they are sending a kid to college or starting a new job, or embarking on motherhood, or what else can you think of, carol?

Carol: 30:37

Well, I mean just the climate of our nation, like financial difficulty is ahead. I mean the cost of living, the cost just to put gas in our cars we live in a very challenging time.

Shannon: 30:52

So our instructions that we see in Ezra's life are humble yourself, don't assume that you don't need God's protection. Seek him. It says to seek from him a safe journey. So seek his safety. And to fast, that's a legitimate way to humble ourselves before God, fasting and to implore him. That's more than just asking. Imploring God, I love that word. So then that's what they do. He sets out with these priests leading the way. I love to Carol that Ezra weighs out all the silver and gold and different vessels and Stephanie, he divides it up between these priests carrying it all right. I think that's interesting. Do you know why?

Carol: 31:30

Well, perhaps it could be because they were holy vessels that would be used for their worship, because even with the Ark of the Covenant there were all these rules of how you would hold it and who could hold it and who could carry the poles, and if someone touches it and they drop dead. And so perhaps it was because they were going to be used for really a holy ministry before God.

Shannon: 31:51

Yeah, this isn't just cash, this is gold and silver and vessels going to the temple to be used in holy worship. So they weigh it out, give it to the priests, say you're in charge of this, guard this which, oh my word, what a holy terror. Like you're carrying lots of pounds of gold and silver, I mean you've got to imagine there's bandits and thieves along the way and then they depart. So verse 31 says and then we departed from the river. So they've been camping out by this river on the 12th day of the month to go to Jerusalem. And then the hand of our God was on us and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy and from the ambushes. That's the end of the story. Do you find that surprising?

Carol: 32:36

Well, no, but they may have being in it. I mean we know that our God had a plan. I mean he said I want to not just build a temple, but I want to build my people. And so there is this promise that is given throughout the prophets, like Isaiah and Jeremiah, as they speak towards the exile, and what's going to happen when the people return. And when we really look at what God promises, then we can see that this is part of God's plan. Of course, they're going to make it back, okay, because God had a plan for the people in Jerusalem and you don't. Even bigger plan unfolds throughout Nehemiah and the building and the bringing together of God's people that happens there.

Shannon: 33:15

Right. So on this trip, nothing happens. That's the story, right? I mean, I think it is kind of amazing, like I think both are true. You gave the perspective of look, god promised this and he's just keeping his promises, but we're walking into unknown and carrying bags of gold and silver Like this would have been a really risky journey, and so for them to get safe passage carrying 52,500 pounds of gold and silver and not losing any of it.

Shannon: 33:44

They made it there safely, like it's amazing, and I love that. They prayed and fasted for this and God gave it to them. God's hand was on them, but sort of like I'm just picturing, you know, that trip in Guatemala. God is delivering us. His hand was on us, he was keeping us safe. We didn't even know it, we didn't even realize that God was protecting us in that moment until, like, we got into that airport. There are so many ways we don't even know what's happening.

Carol: 34:10

Right and I think sometimes as we go about our days and there's a shift, you know, like we are running late or something happens that shifts our schedule and we don't recognize that it could quite often be God's hand moving us out of a circumstance that we could find ourselves in into another place, or we don't see the providential care of our father over our lives. But he moves and orchestrates every detail because he is concerned about everything in our lives and he is concerned that we arrive at what he has planned for us safely. And he had that for you as you were in Guatemala, because God wasn't finished with the ministry that Shannon Popkin would have on this planet. He had the way already mapped out, even though you know you thought he planned to the missionaries that thought he would plan, but he still got you in that place safely.

Shannon: 34:57

Yeah, there was an old Amy Grant song that says a reckless car ran out of gas before it ran my way. Do you know that?

Carol: 35:04

You know what I was just going to mention, that I am not kidding you, and I was like oh my goodness, that's so funny yes.

Carol: 35:10

Angel's watching over me is the name of the song. It's the truth, not even an idea, but it is the truth that God has his mighty angels, because we are in a battle every single day, and when you go to prayer, you are in a bigger battle, because the enemy despises when we pray, because it's now making us aware that God is in control of our circumstances, where he wants us to think that we're in charge of it. Right, yes, and so when we go to prayer, we're in battle. And Ezra didn't just start the prayer with the people corporately. He had the practice of praying alone, in the quiet, and that's what led him to recognize prayer is powerful. I need to bring people with me.

Shannon: 35:47

Yeah, that's what leaders do. They open the word, they understand what God's intentions are and they pray. You know, they seek God's face and then they lead their people. That's what he's doing. But it's so intriguing to think about all the ways God is protecting and leading, Like in that song I can think of. We're both thinking of that Amy Grant song. I think I remember that as a teenager, for some reason that lyric really captured my intention. I hadn't really thought about God's sovereignty. As an adult I've thought far more deeply about God's sovereignty and protection and all the ways that he controls the details of our lives. And I do find great comfort in that. God is in control. We can trust him. He manages all of the circumstances that surround us. You know there is no bandit or thief or swindler like Pedro and Guatemala.

Shannon: 36:35

There's nobody who doesn't answer to God and he's working in all these different ways. I don't know. Maybe Pedro needed to hear something we said in the car that day, or the missionaries needed a trust opportunity. Like they were wringing their hands, they were very worried about us. You know, there was some something he was accomplishing.

Carol: 36:51

He is always working.

Shannon: 36:53

He's very invested, even though it would seem as though he's far away sometimes.

Carol: 36:58

Yeah, that's so good, Shannon, because it actually what you talked about with Guatemala how the missionaries were worried, imagining that they did pray at that moment for your safety.

Shannon: 37:07

Yeah.

Carol: 37:08

And within this story, when the people arrived to Jerusalem safety, there was such a greater awareness of who God is to them because they were invited in to have communion with God through the process. When we come to the Father, the answer comes. We can look back and see all the ways he protected us Because it says there's bandits on the road, there's swindlers, whatever it was that they the scripture says, and they saw that. They knew that was out there and yet they saw God's hand on them to protect them.

Shannon: 37:38

So good, they get to Jerusalem and they're going to bring all this stuff to the temple, but what happens in between?

Carol: 37:43

This is my favorite verse, and I don't know about you, shannon, but I know we're both very busy people and have a lot on our plate, and this is what I love about what happens when they get to Jerusalem. So verse 32 says we came to Jerusalem and there we remained for three days, and then the next verse starts with the fourth day. Well, what did they do for three days? I truly want to believe that they just took a nap. They had just traveled four months in the desert carrying 52,500 pounds of stuff with all these people. I mean, can you imagine being with the same 5000 plus people for four months? Like how you get tired of being with people after a couple hours, right, yeah?

Carol: 38:23

So, but what God allows them to do is just rest, and I think sometimes the most spiritual thing we can do is take a nap.

Shannon: 38:31

I love that, yeah. And to be refreshed, to experience this, I mean contrast that with their just weary and just so exhausted and bringing the stuff into the temple. Well, no, this is a glorious event. So God gives them three days of rest, refreshment, and then they go into the temple and it's like this great culmination where God, he did carry them, he took them, every step of the way.

Shannon: 38:56

It's beautiful. I mean, I bet that was just quite a moment for Ezra because it all started for him years prior of God stirring his heart and giving him this great task to do so, carol, let's suppose we truly believe this story is true. I mean, this is not just a fairy tale. God gave us these events of his people to show us who God is like and what we can expect in our own journey in life. What would change in our life if we lived like this story?

Carol: 39:23

was true, I truly believe we would ask for the big things. I think this story helps us recognize the importance of what our spiritual disciplines look like when you know because there's so much emphasis on the story, on prayer, and I for one and I think you would resonate with me I don't want to get to heaven and have God say you prayed too small.

Shannon: 39:46

Yeah.

Carol: 39:47

I had so much more for you, but you were so focused on the things around you that you couldn't see beyond them and see what I had for you. I do believe that this story helps us recognize the big things God can do when we seek his face first, before we seek the provision of his hand.

Shannon: 40:04

That's really good. So pray big. I think there were probably people who would have thought as or was crazy or to even assume that Cyrus the Persian king would ever let people go, let alone, you know, give them huge gifts of silver and gold, Like that's just crazy talk. But that happened. We can pray on an international level for big things like this. We should not be afraid of that. I wonder, like, what would change if we lived like it's true that this part about being ashamed to ask the king for soldiers. I'm not going to suggest that we should just stop wearing our seat belts or stop putting precautions in place you know God will keep me safe. But just being aware that the world is watching what we think God can do, right, what would change if we really believed God could keep us safe?

Carol: 40:52

Right the risks that we would take, the places we would go. You know, I mean, there are things in my life where I think like, oh, I would never travel there because of what's happening. And we see, you know, friends, that I have go to places in the world that you know they're not friendly towards the gospel, and yet they're still going into these countries in so much danger, knowing that their God, our God, is there to protect them, even if the outcome isn't what they want it to be. They still know that they're living in what God has asked them to do. And I think that's a huge point of it is when we are in God's will. Whatever happens that comes, whether it's, you know, from the evil in the world or from the goodness of God's hand, that he's going to use it for such a greater way.

Carol: 41:33

I had a dear friend in college who was praying desperately for two things Number one, for her father to come back to the Lord and number two, for her mother to be free from pain, because she was so sick and just in chronic pain every day. That was unbearable and her mom had come down to take her back up to California from. We went to Bible College in Arizona and on the way home they were hit head on on a semi and I remember at her service she had a fiance at the time and I remember him getting up and speaking and he said you know as much as we miss Miriam, the two things that she prayed for has come to be, because her mother is no longer in pain and her father has come back to the Lord. So sometimes the outcome doesn't always look like we want, but when we pray big, audacious prayers to God, he's going to answer them, no matter what tragedy strikes us or no matter what amazing things come into our life that bring us so much blessing, because his answer is what we're searching for.

Shannon: 42:32

Wow, I'm just that story gives me pause. Wow. So she and her mother died and her two requests were granted by God. She prayed this big prayer that everybody thought was impossible, right? And yet God didn't keep them safe on this journey. We have to look beyond this actual journey. They're home, you know. They are in that safe place where we will worship, where there's no need for a temple because we'll be with God, and it won't be loading gold and silver onto our carts, like the streets are going to be paved with gold, like this beautiful place that we are headed heaven. That is the end of our journey and there we truly will be safe. There will be nothing that can harm us for all eternity.

Carol: 43:12

Right, praying with eternity in mind instead of the earthly, you know, place that we are. It really does shift us and it shifted Ezra. He knew what the outcome needed to be. That was God's will to reestablish worship. He didn't know what it was going to look like. He didn't know how God was going to make it happen. It could have happened in a different way, where the stuff was all stolen and they had to go, you know, rescue it and you know whatever. But God had it all planned out and the funny thing is we don't really get to hear about what happened on the journey. There could have been moments where you know the enemy was in the distance and they had to protect against it, but, just like with Elijah, you know, sends his angels out and has that barrier around them Right.

Carol: 43:50

So when the enemies came, they just oh. We don't know the whole story, but what we do know is that God answered a prayer of a faithful man who had big dreams, because he knew it was following what God was promising.

Shannon: 44:02

Yeah, we don't know what happened and they might not know either, like what God did to protect him.

Carol: 44:07

Exactly yeah, which?

Shannon: 44:08

is so true. Yeah, one more way that I think we can live like the story is true, like what would change in my heart, I think, is this whole idea of fasting and prayer Really corporately fasting and praying. I know my church meets early in the morning on Sunday for prayer Just whoever wants to show up, like just being part of those sorts of things, like fasting and praying with God's people corporately asking him for big things. I think if we really latch onto this is what God has for his people, we would participate in that. Like I'm all in. Like you want to pray and fast for something big? I'm in, I agree. Yeah, if any of my friends are listening, okay, here we go. Let me know when can we fast and pray? I want to be in on that. Carol, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I've so enjoyed opening God's word with you. Yeah.

Carol: 44:57

It was so much fun. Shannon, thank you for having me.