The Truth About Your Thirstiness for More {Mary DeMuth}

What are you constantly thirsty for? What’s the habit or person or behavior you’ve returned to repeatedly—always dipping your bucket and yet coming up dry? And what difference should it make that Jesus has offered you his living water?

On Season One of Live Like It’s True, we’re discussing the True Stories of Jesus. Mary DeMuth joins me to discuss the story from John 4 of Jesus meeting the Woman at the Well.  

Guest: Mary DeMuth
Bible Passage: John 4:1-30 NLT, The Samaritan Woman at the Well
Freebie:  Live Like It's True Workbook 
Featured Resource: The Day I Met Jesus co-authored by Mary DeMuth
Complete Shownotes: at ShannonPopkin.com
Music:  Cade Popkin Music 

Mary DeMuth is an international speaker, literary agent, podcaster, and the author of over forty books, including The Day I Met Jesus.   Mary loves to help people re-story their lives. She lives in Texas with her husband of 30 years and is the mom to three adult children. Be prayed for on her daily prayer podcast with 2 million downloads: Pray Everyday podcast.

Find Mary on:  

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The Woman at the Well

The true story of the Woman at the Well is found in John 4:1-30 of your Bible. (Please note that in the broadcast, Mary is using the NLT and I thought I was using the NLT, but actually I was reading from the ESV. Sorry about that confusion!) 

It's the true story of a Samaritan woman who had the longest recorded theological conversation with Jesus in the Bible. I hope you'll be amazed by the approachableness of Jesus and his thirst-quenching water, and then I hope you'll live like the story is true.

Live the Story
Here are some ways to live like this story from John 4 is true. 

• When Jesus said, “Go get your husband," it was because he wanted to have a forthright conversation with the woman at the well about her sin and her thirst. I shouldn't try to hide something from Jesus, because he already knows. What do I need to have an honest conversation with him about? 
• Jesus revealed to the woman that He was the Messiah and it changed everything for her. How have I responded to the Messiah? Have I bent my knee, and lived like it’s true that He is the Anointed One of God?

Shaped by God's Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith 
     {buy now}

Comparison Girl for Teens
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Get our free "Pray God's Promises" prayer guide.

Go to Shannonpopkin.com/PROMISES/ for more information on my neww Bible study, Shaped by God’s Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:39

What are you thirsty for today? I don't mean like a pumpkin spice latte or a diet coke. What is your heart thirsty for? Is there a habit or a person or a behavior that you've returned to repeatedly, like a well that you might dip your bucket into, and yet are you always coming up dry? What difference should it make that Jesus has given us his living water? That's what we're going to talk about today.

Speaker 1: 2:11

We're discussing the true story of the woman at the well from John, chapter 4, and I'm so honored to be having this conversation with Mary Demuth. Mary is an international speaker, a literary agent, a podcaster and the author of over 40 books. I think you're going to love this conversation I had with Mary and the way she opens both her Bible and her life with us. I hope you'll also check out Mary's book The Day I Met Jesus, which includes a chapter on this story that we're talking through. You can also find more from Mary at her website, marydemuthcom, or on Instagram, facebook or Twitter. You'll also want to check out Mary's podcast, which has over 2 million downloads, called the Pray Everyday Podcast. Mary, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks so much. It's great to be here, mary. You have written so many books, and I can imagine, though, that your favorite book is the Bible. Would you say that's?

Speaker 2: 3:15

true, yes, i read that one of the most of all the books, that's for sure, right.

Speaker 1: 3:20

It's this well that never runs dry, and I love the story that we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about the Samaritan woman, and I had the privilege of reading your chapter in The Day I Met Jesus. This is a book. Why don't you tell us What's this book about?

Speaker 2: 3:40

This is a book about five stories of women who encounter Jesus in the New Testament. These are actual stories and it was co-written by me and a guy named Frank Viola. I wrote the fiction aspect of that and he wrote the non-fiction. Whenever possible I used all of the words of the New Testament. Whenever there was dialogue, i used the exact wording and then, through research, put flesh on that story to help people really understand. these were actual women who met Jesus and their lives were completely transformed in medium One of these five women.

Speaker 1: 4:16

one of the chapters is the Samaritan woman and we're going to be talking about her story today. You give us a little diary version of it's, as if she's writing in her diary and describing the day that she meets Jesus by the well in Samaria, the way that you describe her backstory. of course we don't have her backstory. All we have is her story at present, which at present she is a woman who has been divorced five times and she's living with a man who isn't her husband. You've kind of pieced together a backstory and you describe her as a woman who had been orphaned and who was barren and just so very thirsty to the idea of having a child and winning the affection of a husband. What, from the research of the culture and the historical background, caused you to fill in her backstory that way? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 5:11

The thing that I've always been perplexed by is that she had been divorced so many times and that Jesus didn't really condemn her for the divorce, the divorces. It wasn't like you, sinful woman, and you've had all these divorces because in that culture you could be divorced with a certificate if your husband didn't like you or had any sort of reason. But the primary reason that a lot of people were that women were passed over in marriage or divorce is they could not produce an offspring. And so if you battled infertility, it would make a lot of sense, if you were an infertile woman, that you would be married several times, each time hoping well, perhaps it's not me, maybe it's my partner and maybe with this husband I will be able to produce an offspring.

Speaker 2: 5:55

And when one does not come, it's very likely that she would be offered a certificate of divorce and then would, still in that culture, need to find a way to make a living, and the only way that you would be supported, especially if you didn't have family, would be to have a husband. Well, that happened for five times, and then I think what could have happened again? all speculation, and I don't say this is in the Word of God, but that she maybe had to become a mistress in order just to have food on the table and be able to survive in that culture, and so, instead of looking at her as this, like sinful, horrible lady, i think we've misunderstood her, and I think she's actually quite amazing and Jesus is very sweet with her. So, anyway, that was my thought behind all of that.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Oh, i love it. I love the compassionate look at her story and because that's really what we see in Jesus, i mean he does call out. Well, i'm getting ahead of myself, so let's go ahead and dive into her story and, mary, i'll have you just. Could you just read? we're reading from the new Living Translation today And because this story is it's actually really long and it's pretty involved, let's just take it, let's chunk it up a little bit. It's a story about a misunderstood identity and a revelation of an identity here, and we're not going to get it all at once, we're going to get it in little chunks as Jesus reveals himself to this woman. So let's go ahead and have you read, maybe verses one through eight.

Speaker 2: 7:32

Great Jesus knew the Pharisees had heard that he was baptizing and making more disciples than John. though Jesus himself didn't baptize them, his disciples did. So he left Judea and returned to Galilee. He had to go through Samaria on the way. Eventually he came to the Samaritan village of Sychar, near the field that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there and Jesus, tired from the long walk, sat weirdly beside the well about noontime. Soon a Samaritan woman came to draw water and Jesus said to her please give me a drink. He was alone at the time because his disciples had gone into the village to buy some food.

Speaker 1: 8:07

Okay, so there's a well and Jesus is sitting at the well and apparently thirsty, and his opening line is please give me a drink. So why is this surprising, mary? Why is this shocking?

Speaker 2: 8:24

Shocking because, first of all, samaritan hated by the Israelites. Second of all, woman shouldn't be talked to. And third of all, because of and we've heard this from lots of scholars throughout the years because she's coming at this particular time, she probably has some sort of story, or she's not liked by her villagers, or she's just trying to stay alone because she's tired of being, of having ill treatments. She's not coming at a normal time of day, and so we have the scene of Jesus, who himself is clean. He's in an unclean village. He's asking an unclean woman to basically give him a drink, which would cause that drink to be unclean, but he doesn't care. And so that's pretty amazing. If you think about all those things against her and the situation. The last thing that a normal Jewish man would do would be to do any of those things. So he's violated all the norms of his society by asking for a drink. It sounds kind of rude, like give me a drink, but it's not. It's actually an invitation to a conversation.

Speaker 1: 9:29

Wow. And yet so there's this backstory of hostility and prejudice, um, between these two groups of people, the Samaritans, they called them the half breeds, so they were half Jewish, and we could go back and look at how you know that story, but just, we need to note that there is huge hostility between these two, two groups of people. There's racism and prejudice And they don't talk to each other And I mean, just like you mentioned, a man in that culture would not talk. They wouldn't even talk to their own wife in public. A rabbi would not talk to his own wife in public. So the fact that he just sets all of that aside, and you know, especially, i think, the prejudism I heard somebody talking about how racism in the South, how there would be different drinking fountains, for there was a sign that said coloreds, you know this is where you drink And you know here's where the white people drink, which is appalling and, you know, shocking, but it's what our I mean, it's not that long ago.

Speaker 1: 10:28

My mom remembers visiting her relatives in the South and seeing these things like she remembers walking on the sidewalk and having some black young men step aside to let her and her cousins walk through And she was like why? why they do that I don't understand. And so this was not so distant in our history to have these different drinking fountains, and it'd be like a white person saying can I drink from your drinking fountain, right? It'd be like like there's this crossover that just socially, culturally, was not acceptable. And yet Jesus just set all of that aside, it didn't matter.

Speaker 1: 11:07

And so let's look at the next verse, verse 10. Jesus answered her. If you knew the gift of God and who it is that is saying to you, give me a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water. Jesus says can you give me a drink? She's like Jews and Samaritans. Why in the world are you asking me for a drink? And Jesus says if you knew the gift of God, you know. Basically, if you knew who I was, who you were talking to and if I were going to finish that sentence, mary, i don't think I would finish it the way that Jesus did I think I would say you know, if you knew the gift of God and if you knew who you were talking to, you would have maybe offered to wash his feet to or offered to feed.

Speaker 1: 11:50

In the story of Rebecca. She says yeah, i'll give you a drink and I'll feed your candles too. You know, i'll water your candles too. Something like to put her in her place, like you don't even. You don't know who you're talking to a woman. But instead Jesus says if you knew it was me, you would have asked me for water. And he calls it living water. What's he getting at here?

Speaker 2: 12:13

Well, we're here at one of Jacob's wells, and so this is a very historic site and a very historic place for the nation of Israel. And in those nomadic times, the only way that you could survive, if you weren't by a river, is to have a well, and so this was a well symbolized life for a village and for people. It's interesting. The phraseology in the NLT says if you only knew the gift God has for you, and I think that's a very interesting distinction that he's saying I have something for you. If you ask me for it, i'm going to give it to you, and it's called living water. It's this magical water, and I'm sure that she probably had not even ever heard that phraseology before, and it's not something that you see a lot.

Speaker 2: 12:56

Jesus doesn't talk about it tons, and this is he's having this discourse with her, and he uses the word living water, but of course she doesn't really get it. She's like right, i don't have a rope, you don't have a bucket, the well's deep. Where would you get this living water? And then she says in verse 12, besides, do you think you're greater than our ancestor Jacob, who gave us this? well, how can you offer better water than he and his sons and his animals enjoyed. In other words, this is the same old. Well, it's the same old water. How can you possibly Give any water? is water? How can you give something that's different than what we've already enjoyed here?

Speaker 1: 13:31

That's really interesting. So in a sense, she's calling attention to their similarities like they're you know. You say you're Jew, we're Samaritans. She's kind of putting them at the same drinking fountain. Okay, she's getting rid of the distinction And she's saying like, are you better than him? And of course the answer is yes, right, this is the Messiah that we're talking about. But she just does not get it yet right, And then go ahead and read verse 14 to Right right above that, says Jesus replied.

Speaker 2: 14:03

Anyone who drinks this water will soon become thirsty again, in verse 14. But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life. So now he's he's talking about a whole nother level of water and basically he's speaking of salvation here, and we have a lot of there's a lot of salvation imagery in the idea of water. You've got John the Baptist baptizing for the gift forgiveness of sins and for a new regeneration, and so Jesus is kind of hinting back to that and Maybe looking forward to and there will be baptism, believers, baptism after the resurrection of Christ. But he's talking about that which sustains you eternally, not that which sustains you physically, and He's elevating their conversation from the rudimentary elements of life to the eternal elements of the kingdom.

Speaker 1: 14:57

Which.

Speaker 2: 14:57

Jesus is prone to do right. Yes, he's always has a couple different layered messages with a message that he has and there always kingdom messages underneath. But you know, I think it's surprising He doesn't take the bait.

Speaker 1: 15:09

We're not gonna get into this whole juice. She keeps wanting to kind of pull them back into that, like, let's, let's talk this juice Samaritan thing. He's like no, we're gonna set that aside, we're gonna talk about this living water That's for everyone, this life-giving water. So if you have a well, that means you're taking a bucket and dipping it down into a hole and Drawing the water up. If you have a spring, that's underwater too, but but that's bubbling up with no effort, and so, and then if the spring is inside of you, that's no bucket, no effort and that's no thirst. Like that. Is this really appealing image of wait. I don't have to, i don't have to come back to this Well, so go ahead and let's look at the next part of the story versus 15 through maybe 17 or 18?

Speaker 2: 16:03

Yeah. So she says please, sir. The woman said give me this water, then I'll never be thirsty again and I won't have to come here to get water. She's still in the elements, elemental thing. So then Jesus finally shifts that. He says in verse 16 go and get your husband. Jesus told her I don't have a husband. The woman replied Jesus said you're right, you don't have a husband, for you've had five husbands and you aren't even married to the man you're living with now. You certainly spoke the truth. And then she says in verse 19 you must be a prophet. Yeah, he is, he knows stuff.

Speaker 1: 16:36

That's interesting. But, mary, why do you think Jesus? you know they're having this spiritual conversation. He's trying to turn, we're talking about living water. And she kind of says, yeah, i want this water. Why does he then bring up like, okay, bring your husband here. You know, she's kind of saying I'd like, yeah, i'd like this water, i'd like a break, i don't want to have to keep coming here over and over. And he's like, okay, go get your husband and bring him here, like the come here part twice. Why is he turning the conversation this way?

Speaker 2: 17:06

Well, i don't pretend to know what's going on in his head, but I would say that he is bringing her to a spiritual crisis. He's trying to show her that he's not talking to her about physical water. He's talking about the need of her soul. And by recounting her story Before she even tells it to him, he's saying I understand, i've seen you, i've watched you, i know the heartache that you've gone through. And he's giving her an opportunity to Admit to the story that she has. And she does. She says, yeah, that's me, and he's trying to help her to see that she needs a savior, right so he's talking to her about the thirstiness of her life, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 17:50

This is like the last thing she wants to be talking to a stranger about.

Speaker 2: 17:55

Right Yeah, her dirty laundry.

Speaker 1: 17:57

Yes, this is her locked closet, with all of the ugly. This is probably why she's at the well that noon. She doesn't really want to Face what people think of her, what they know about her, what they're whispering or giggling about. and so here's a stranger And the last thing she wants to do is talk to him. you know, he's obviously very interesting to talk to. I mean, the fact that he is talking to her is very interesting. She doesn't want to talk about this, and yet he brings it up and he says go, bring your husband, like, let's just talk about it, let's talk about the thirst of your life. Why is it shocking that Jesus wants to talk to us about our thirst?

Speaker 2: 18:41

Well, i think, in this world that we live in today, especially in the US, where most of our desires are satisfied, we need someone to ask us these questions, because we can run to any other idol, fill our hearts up with that idol until we recognize our actual need. And so Jesus is basically helping her. See, you have an actual need here. Your need is for salvation, your need is for understanding, your need is to know that God sees you and loves you and wants to deliver you. But we don't get to that point until we recognize our own stories and our own desperation before a holy God. And so Jesus asks us those questions too. He says go grab your husband, go grab your, your opioids. You're addicted to. Go grab your whatever it is that's grabbing onto you. Go grab those. And now we'll have a conversation because you've been filling yourself up with men or thinking that your provision has to only come from you. But that's actually not your provision. Your provision is standing before you. Yeah, let's open that closet.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Let's get into, like, okay, what is the thing that you're filling your thirst with? I mean, five husbands, wow, there's a story there. Every single one of those ended marriages represents heartache and compounding thirst. And Jesus says let's talk about it. And I just want to call attention to the fact that now he's revealed he knows these things about her And yet he still wanted to talk to her And he still asked her for a drink. He's still willing to share a cup with her. Right, like let's drink from the same water fountain. Like let's just have a conversation.

Speaker 2: 20:24

That is somewhat shocking, wouldn't you say? Oh, especially in the culture that he's in. it's extraordinarily shocking, but Jesus never fits the mold that everyone wants to stick them in. They're like would you please deliver us from the Romans? He's like that's not what I'm delivering you from, delivering you from sin. but you don't realize that yet He's on a different journey. He's not. it's not about Jews versus Samaritans. It's about the whole kingdom of God expanding outwardly after the resurrection. So he's hinting at what's to come. He's also. the beautiful thing is he walked through Samaria. I didn't have to. A lot of Jews walked around it, and so this was a planned occurrence. Also, the thing to note is this is the longest theological discussion that Jesus has with any disciple at any moment in the entire gospel account. And so if you want to have the longest conversation with someone, you think of you like Peter or John or James or somebody like that, but it's with this woman, the Samaritan woman, at the well, and they have a theological discussion which I think is profound and beautiful as well.

Speaker 1: 21:27

I do too. I love it that he chose to reveal himself. Well, we're going to get there in a moment. I love the fact that he wants to have a conversation with this woman And he's unconcerned about the fact that she's got a past that she could potentially make someone else unclean with her living situation. Jesus is not someone who's contaminated by our sin. He's the one who comes and gives us a way to be cleansed from our sin. Mary, talk to us a little bit about how our background and our story can create this insatiable thirst. You talk a lot about sexual abuse and how somebody's back story can really play into the thirstiness of their life.

Speaker 2: 22:56

Yeah, i talk about that a lot when I speak and one of the things that I say is an untold story never heals. It's very important to let your story out to a safe person to begin that healing journey. But for me and my own story, not only the abuse and the neglect but having several different fathers and the death of my biological father also left within me a huge father wound. And so when I came to Christ at 15, it wasn't because of this great like oh, i know I'm a sinner and I need saving Although of course I know that but my primary need was I need a dad.

Speaker 2: 23:32

I am a fatherless girl who has been abandoned far too many times. And here's something that's real and tangible. And my thirst was as thirsty as it could possibly be And so once I started drinking I was like okay, i found it so much so that in high school when I had other friends who had grown up in the church and kind of took advantage of Jesus, because they just were like this is just what I always knew I would be, so I would go to parties and see people get really drunk And and I would like be that weird low Christian girl in the corner crying like how could you do this to Jesus? I was just that girl, you know, and stuff, because I just didn't understand I had found the fountain of life and how could they just disregard it? So that's kind of how I came to know the Lord.

Speaker 1: 24:13

I love that, and I love the way that God gave you this backstory that you would not have chosen, and I love the way that he gave this thirsty woman at the well a backstory that she would never have chosen for herself. And yet it in some ways, do you think it opened your eyes or made you more sensitive to the Messiah that was reaching out to all of us?

Speaker 2: 24:38

Yeah, I see my story as the fertile ground for the need that I had to reach heavenward. Had I had a really easy upbringing, I don't know if I would have had the same need for Jesus as I did as a young teen a suicidal young teen. So I'm glad. I'm glad I mean, no one wants to have that story. It's a very hard story to heal from, particularly, but it caused me to jump into the arms of Christ, So I'm grateful.

Speaker 1: 25:04

Absolutely All right. So let's look again at you know. Jesus brings up the husbands and says bring them back here. And, like you mentioned earlier, she doesn't want to talk about it. She's like sir, i perceive that you are a prophet, so she changes the subject. We've got a lot of changing the subject here. You know this is not a conversation that just follows a normal discourse. So what? go ahead and read the next verses and tell us what's the surprise here.

Speaker 2: 25:31

So, as I mentioned, she said I think you're a prophet. And then, in verse 20, she said so tell me, why is it that you Jews insist that Jerusalem is the only place of worship, while we Samaritans claim it is here at Mount Garizim, where our ancestors worshiped? Jesus replied believe me, dear woman, the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews. But the time is coming Indeed, it's here now when true worshipers will worship the father in spirit and in truth. The father is looking for those who will worship him that way, for God is spirit, so that those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Speaker 2: 26:17

So she then says I know the Messiah is coming, the one who is called the Christ. When he comes, he will explain everything to us. And Jesus says he told her I am the Messiah, or, in other translations, he who is speaking to you. Is he? So, which is a little more awkward translation, but I am? He just sensibly says I'm the Messiah, you're you're. You're speaking to the Messiah, you're talking to him, right?

Speaker 1: 26:43

Wow, So let's back up. You know she wants to change the subject to worship And I think it's interesting Jesus doesn't change the subject back to the husbands. Why does he let that go? Why does he just go with it? What do you think?

Speaker 2: 26:59

Well, there's nothing that she can do to change the past. And at this point he is more interested in teaching her that salvation doesn't come from being on a mountain. Salvation comes from being connected to him in spirit to be. And then he's hinting at the Holy Spirit to come. And so her issue, just like anybody's issue, is not necessarily the things at hand or the things you think are the issue.

Speaker 2: 27:26

The issue is the heart. The issue is where is your heart? And if you get that heart correct, then from that point on all the good fruit is going to come from that good heart. So Jesus says a good tree produces good fruit, And if that tree does not have a good heart, it's not going to produce good fruit. So you could do all sorts of like behavioral modification to try to change your fruit and all that, But the truth is it flows from the inside out. So he is talking about what's going on in our heart and he's talking about that living water coming up from inside of her which will then emit the fruit that comes. That's mixing a lot of metaphors, but that's how I see it.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Yeah, i know that's beautiful And I think is it James who puts those metaphors right side by side.

Speaker 1: 28:09

you know the mouth that speaks is like a well a fresh water, well, and then the fruit on the tree, you know. And so I think, yeah, like Jesus is calling her back to the source, like the source. I love it that you said she cannot change her past, but he can change everything about her story. I love how you use the word re story. You know he can re story her life and it can happen right here And right now. In your fictional retelling of her story in the day I met Jesus, you called attention to this little line that he is seeking worshippers. What do you think? I mean? that is just so compelling. How do you think she heard that?

Speaker 2: 28:52

Well, I think, as a Samaritan, she had been dismissed in basically saying you're not worshiping him right or you're doing it incorrectly. And yet he's saying I'm just seeking worshippers. It's not on this mountain, It's not on that mountain. I am seeking people who worship the Father. And because that's what he did, he worshiped the Father and his life was a living sacrifice to the Father. And so he's basically calling her to that kind of discipleship of worshiping the Father. You don't have to go to a physical place to do that. You can do it right here at this.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Well, This is all just kind of changing in this moment in history. right, the new covenant is unfolding right before their very eyes. Jesus is having a very important conversation with this woman, which I mean, i think we have to again call attention. He's elevating her. He's elevating a woman, he's elevating a non-Jewish woman by even having this conversation with her. So let's finish the story. Can you read the rest, maybe through verse 30?

Speaker 2: 29:59

Just then his disciples came back. They were shocked to find him talking to a woman, but none of them had the nerve to ask what do you want with her Or why are you talking to her? The woman left her water jar beside the well and ran back to the village telling everyone come and see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could he possibly be the Messiah? So the people came streaming from the village to see him.

Speaker 1: 30:22

So she's the first missionary almost right Now. I think it's very interesting, mary, that she leads with come meet the man who told me everything I ever did. So she's not saying not abandoning her story. She's like being re-storied in this right. And why do you think, though, that she led with that? What's surprising about the things that she said to the villagers?

Speaker 2: 30:48

Well, i mean, if you look at the phraseology, a man who told me everything I ever did, so that's what a prophet would do. So she's establishing his prophet status by saying that. And also there's an exclamation point in the NLT which I take to mean that she's not sad about the story. She's not like, oh, come and see the guy who told me all the stuff I did. He's like, come and see this guy, he told me all the stuff I did. And so, therefore, when Jesus communicated with her, he wasn't communicating shame on her, like, yeah, you had five husbands, you hottie, you know whatever. And she's like so excited to say this story. And so he must have conveyed it in a positive way or in a non-threatening or non-shame-based way.

Speaker 1: 31:35

How I love that. Thank you for calling our attention to that exclamation point. It's an important one. So what beautiful story about a woman who finds her thirsty resting place in Jesus and finds the spring, I mean the. the change is like immediate, It is instant. Did you experience that with your transformation story, Mary? Was it like this instantaneous quench first? Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:01

Yeah, i went from. In fact it was very quickly. After that I tried to proselytize my mom and try to win her into the kingdom. Of course it didn't go well, but I tried very hard. I was definitely her. I was like running out to my village and saying come see a man who told me everything I ever did. And so, yeah, so she goes from hiding under the banner of noonday sun, where no one goes and gets water, not wanting to hang out with anyone in her village, ashamed, tired, broken, to running back to the very village who probably shunned her, saying come and see, come and see, could he be the Messiah? And of course, in that implication of asking of that question, i'm sure ringing in her mind is I am the Messiah And she's just. It's so such big news that she can't say come see the Messiah, but she's like could it be the Messiah? which I think is really interesting too.

Speaker 1: 32:49

That's so beautiful. Let's talk about how we could live like the story is actually true. It's a true story. We think that perhaps, maybe I think you mentioned this in your book that maybe John interviewed this woman, you know, when he returned to her village after Jesus had died and risen somehow, John, the story is in there Somehow.

Speaker 2: 33:12

somehow she, her story is told. So she must have told it or he must have asked.

Speaker 1: 33:17

Right, yeah, so this is a two-person conversation, and yet John knows about it now, and so there's been some sort of interview that's taken place, and so this is a true recounting of a true story. What would we do if we lived as though this story weren't true? Let's start with that question Like what if we lived as though it wasn't true that Jesus already knows our story before we tell it, or if it wasn't true that Jesus welcomes the conversation with us? what would it look like to live as though this is just a fictional story?

Speaker 2: 33:50

Well, at that point then there would be no need for God. I remember talking to someone who said they were an atheist and I said well then, what happens when you die? Like what's the point of all this life that you have? Oh, that's it. I die, i'm annihilated And that's the end. I just thought, wow, that's super sad, first of all.

Speaker 2: 34:08

But if we don't believe it then we're missing out on the accessibility of the Savior, because in this particular story he is exceptionally accessible. He crosses racial and any other barriers to go to someone who is outcasted in order to bring her in, and then she becomes his missionary. And we learn later that there are people in that village, through scholarship and other parts of scripture, that people did come to Christ because of her. So I mean, this is pretty profound.

Speaker 2: 34:46

The truth is Jesus does know our stories. The truth is he does cross all the lines to get to us. The truth is we have to do something with when he tells us I am the Messiah. We have to do something with that. We can't just say, okay, yeah, you are, but we have to be transformed by that message. I think there's a lot of people out there attending church even who have a scent, they believe, but they've never had any transformation. They have not bent the knee, they have not surrendered to Jesus. They have just had intellectual ascent to who he is. That's a whole different thing than getting on your knees and surrendering your life to Jesus Two different things.

Speaker 1: 35:25

Absolutely So. how do we live, like it is true? How do we live so we can have this living water bubbling up inside of us?

Speaker 2: 35:35

You know, i think part of it is to place ourselves in that story and just find ourselves alone at a well, bereft of friends, broken by life, and watching Jesus approach us, someone who feels outcasted, and have that conversation with him and ask him for the living water. And I think the other thing we need to remember is to drop our water pot, because this was the thing that symbolized her toil. It symbolized how she was going to be fulfilled and filled. It was her economics and she dropped it because she had just met living water. She let go of the crutch that she had and she followed Jesus, and so we need to let go of the crutches that we have. That we think will make our lives happier, fulfilling Even our economics. Drop it, let it break on the ground and walk away. That's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Yeah, we didn't really call attention to that part When she went to. You know the disciples come and you know the conversation's over and she goes back to the village and just leaves that water jar behind And you know this thirsty, continually coming to the well. She just leaves it behind because she has something different. What about the part? How can we live like it's true that Jesus says the equivalent of go get your husband, you know, go get the guy you're having the affair with, go get your partner, go get your, you know your credit card statements, your stash of alcohol, go get whatever. It is that thirsty thing that you can't let go of And let's talk about it. How can we live like it's true that Jesus wants to have these conversations?

Speaker 2: 37:13

Well, i think we need to remember he knows everything And so there's no. We can't pull the wool over his eyes and be like, oh, i'm going to keep this little part of me secret from Jesus. It's not true. He knows it all. Prayer is not just admitting things that you know he already knows. Prayer is conversation about your life and things that you can talk about. That he obviously does know. So let's do something about it. Let's talk about it instead of pretending it doesn't exist or trying to hide it from someone who you can't hide it from.

Speaker 1: 37:42

Yes, and let's have the conversation and let's get you this water, because God is seeking worshipers and you are not excluded from that invitation. He wants a worshiper in you and he wants to fill your life with this eternal water that is bubbling up and quenching your thirst. Any closing thoughts, mary? Anything you want to leave us with.

Speaker 2: 38:04

I just I love reading the story and I keep coming back to it because it's very profound. So I would encourage listeners to just read it every day for a week and to see what God teaches you, because there's so many layers to this conversation. It's beautiful and it'll be life-changing for you.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Thank you, Mary.