The Midlife Feast

#173 - How To Age Without Apology with Deb Benfield RDN

• Jenn Salib Huber RD ND • Season 6 • Episode 173

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What if the fear of “looking older” isn’t really about wrinkles at all, but about relevance, visibility, and power? I welcome registered dietitian and author Deb Benfield to dig into internalized ageism and the subtle ways culture teaches us to distrust our future selves. We walk about how it gets tangled up with diet culture, wellness trends, and perfectionism. Together we unpack why compliments like “you haven’t aged a bit” keep youth on a pedestal, how patriarchy and ableism shape appearance pressure, and what it takes to build a truly age-affirming life. We talk about:

  • Defining internalized ageism and why it starts early
  • Separating facts of aging from fear-based stories
  • Naming patriarchy, sexism and ableism in appearance pressure
  • How wellness trends can trigger relapse and obsession
  • Autonomy vs pressure in skincare, movement and food
  • Her book's framework for untangling systems and mending body trust
  • Practical steps to notice, name and unlearn ageist thoughts
  • Choosing freedom and values over perfection

Learn more about Deb's work:https://www.debrabenfield.com

Order Unapologetic Aging: https://www.debrabenfield.com/book

If you've loved today's conversation and found it helpful, please share it with a friend who needs to hear this and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts

If you're ready to take the next step towards thriving in midlife, head to menopause nutritionist.ca to learn more about my one-to-one and group coaching programs, free resources, and where to get your copy of Eat to Thrive during menopause


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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast that helps you make sense of your body, your health, and menopause in the messy middle of midlife. I'm Dr. Jen Salie Pieper, intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor, and author of Eat to Thrive During Menopause. Around here, we don't see midlife and menopause as problems to solve, but as invitations to live with more freedom, trust, and joy. Each week you'll hear real conversations and practical strategies to help you feel like yourself again, eat without guilt, and turn midlife from a season of survival into a season of thriving. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dig in. So here's a question for you. If somebody told you, hey, you look younger than your age, you'd probably feel pretty good about yourself, right? But if somebody said, Oh, you look so much older than I thought you were, I don't know about you, but I would probably be taken a bit aback and maybe start to feel like, geez, what am I doing wrong? Why is that? Have you ever stopped to think, why is it that aging is a bad thing? That's exactly what my guest, Deb Benfield, is talking about today. And so Deb is a fellow dietitian and she's a repeat guest. So I'm gonna link the episode where she was on the podcast the first time. She's also come into the feaster community to do a guest coaching session on kind of dealing with what we call our internalized ageism. And she's written a book, Unapologetic Aging, which comes out on December 16th. So definitely add that to your holiday wish list. But what I love about Deb is she just brings this softness to this conversation that feels very real, very relatable. You can tell she's had this conversation with hundreds, if not thousands, of people, but she's also experienced it herself. So there's a lot of professional experience that she's bringing to the table, but there's also a lot of lived experience. So I hope that however old you are, if you're listening to this, that it gives you some food for thought on just like the peaceful relationship with our bodies that we're working on as we're undieting from diet culture. We can also work towards a more peaceful aging experience because just like menopause, it happens to everybody that has that is born with a uterus and ovaries. Aging is something that happens to everybody. We can't control it. So, as always, I hope you enjoy it. And I'd love to hear your questions about this. Did this bring up anything in you? Did it stir up any questions? Were there parts that were uncomfortable? Or do you want to know more? Let me know. Hi, Deb. Welcome back to the Midlife Feast.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to talk to you and your community.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and you were on the podcast before, so we're gonna put a link to that first episode. And you came in and did a wonderful session in the Midlife Feaster community. So you're certainly not a stranger to um listeners and feasters in the community, but why don't you just give a little introduction for maybe somebody who hasn't encountered you before?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Just briefly, I'm a registered dietitian who has been really specializing and focusing on preventing and treating disordered eating and eating disorders for 40 years now. I've been doing this a long time. I've seen a lot of diet trends come and go. And I'll be 67 very soon. And when I turned 60, I got curious about you know, what are the latest recommendations? And as soon as I started doing that research, I got very disappointed and angry and just kind of heartbroken to see that here we are still so focused on our waistlines and managing our weight and belly fat blasts and all the messages and all the fear-mongering. So I created what I was looking for and kind of looking at how ageism is so deeply entrenched in all the messages around like midlife and beyond, along with, of course, dye culture. So that's what I'm about. And I'm loving to talk, I'm loving the opportunity to talk about it again.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's dive into talking a little bit about ageism. And I wrote this down because the first time that you were on the podcast and we were talking about a lot of this, somebody sent me a message and they said, you know what? I didn't realize that I was dealing with my own in, you know, internal ageism because in their mind, and it's interesting because this example is such a great example of ageism, but in their mind, they thought ageism was the 80-year-old who was being told that they can't drive anymore. Or, you know, they didn't really realize that it wasn't just something that happened in systems and in, you know, what we would consider policies and things like that, but that we can actually have some internalized ageism. So can you describe what internalized ageism is?

SPEAKER_00:

It is, I wish I could remember the exact quote. There's this quick, great quote that's basically like prejudice against your future self. Like thinking negatively about how your life is going to look. And for us, also, of course, how your body looks as you get older. And ageism actually is like assuming things about somebody based on what you perceive their age to be. And that can go either way. You can do the same thing about somebody you think is too young to know what they're doing. But for this conversation and to answer your question, it's already projecting very negative, fearful things about your own body as you become older. And we can talk about this, we can go lots of different directions, but one of my biggest surprises continues to be one of my biggest surprises. I get reminded all the time that I'm really talking to the 20-somethings and the 30-somethings just as much as anybody else, because sadly, the beauty industry and dermatology, lots of folks are really focusing, like preventing your wrinkles. I'm sorry, I'm doing this in quotes for people who are not seeing me. Like so early on, so much fear about appearing as if you are living your life, which is what aging is, so early because it sells, because it sells so many procedures and products and regimes that you know all of this fear about aging starts so early in our lives. And certainly when you approach midlife and you see those like actual visible signs that your body is changing and that your skin is changing, then there's fear. I mean, there's sometimes a panic about like, oh shit, this is happening to me. This is really happening. I remember when I I remember the exact moment that happened to me. And how there was, you know, this flooding of fear and like, what am I gonna do? Like the immediate, like, I must fix this now. I must get on it, right? And so I understand. I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

And I I think that one of the things that took me by surprise, and I and I hear this a lot when I've had these conversations with others, is that, you know, we get to midlife, whatever that age is, because it's not defined by one particular age, but we generally get to a point in life where we gain quite a bit of confidence in other aspects of our life. I have no problem saying no to doing things that I don't want to do. I have no problem stating my truth, even if I'm worried that it might hurt somebody else's feelings because I'm very confident in what my beliefs are. I have no problem going to the store in my pajamas. Like, there's lots of things that as a 20-year-old, I would have lost a lot of sleep over, and now I lose none.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But that fear of not looking, quote, good for my age is how somebody described it. They're like, I don't care if somebody thinks that I'm ugly, lazy, whatever, but I can't handle them thinking that I look old. Wow. Right? And I and I've heard variations of that all the time. It's like, well, as long as I look my age, I'm okay, but I don't want to look older for my age.

SPEAKER_00:

What does that even mean? Can we unpack that?

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, it may take a weekend to unpack that, but I just, it just really just makes me so sad because the storyline about age and older is just so fearful, and I do think heavily gendered. I try to not make this just about women because it's really not. I see more men in my caseload all the time. And those who are gender non-conforming, certainly. There's a lot of pressure for all of us, but I think there's a particular kind of pressure around women's appearance. The misogyny and and sexism and ageism intersects early on. So my belief, I am a big fan of looking up what's underneath a fear. I I really encourage curiosity about so what's driving that. And I just really believe with all my heart for most of us, it's fear of loss of relevance, loss of feeling like you matter or that you're seen. And maybe some aspect of power in your your social circles or in your own life. So straight up identity and lots of privilege. Lots of privilege. Yeah, it's very real. And I think coming to terms with how systemic that is, I like to like pull it out and not to not internalize it, but to externalize it and identify that that is patriarchy. That is what that is. That is that is what you've learned. And therefore, there's great hope and power in the unlearning of that, in the in the separating yourself. And I use humor with that when I've experienced it myself, when I have a critical thought about my appearance, my body, my a wrinkle, a sunspot, whatever. I I try to just say, fuck you, patri patriarchy and giggle a bit. Because I I've learned that and it's really not a problem. It's the belief that I have fallen for, internalized, that is the problem. So working with that as much as possible helps me and seems to help my clients. But it's not easy. I'm not in any way saying it's easy.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it's everywhere. Like diet culture and wellness culture, it is layered and pervasive and surrounds us everywhere. And this unlearning that you talk about really is a parallel to what I call undieting, right? Which is the unlearning the rules of diet culture. But how can we start to examine that? So if somebody is wondering, oh, yeah, okay, I I see or hear myself and what they're talking about, where did that come from? Where does that programming language come in?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it started when you were reading your nursery rhymes. And the old women figures were always terrifying and scary and rarely like somebody you would want to grow up to be.

SPEAKER_01:

And punched over and slow and decrepit and all the things.

SPEAKER_00:

And then it just we just keep building on that with like the boomer story. Boomers can't work with technology, they're stuck in their ways, they they don't know how to emotionally evolve. There are all these stories that we have about boomers and therefore aging that are incredibly negative. It's I let me know if you hear a positive.

SPEAKER_01:

No, this is very true. What about some of the we'll call them facts of living in an older body that are true?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we do slow down. Things do creak and crack. And I always joke that the first five minutes that I get up, I'm like the tin man who's like, you know, unraveling myself. But you know, those things are true. They happen to all bodies as they get older. How do we separate out thoughts, facts, and feelings about those kinds of things from the story that gets attached to it that we're falling apart, that we're letting ourselves go. And then the other layer of if I just tried harder, maybe this could have been prevented. Like it gets so messy when the reality of aging actually sets in because it is a reality, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yeah. If you're if you're privileged, you get to grow older. Yeah. Uh you just, I mean, there are about 16 questions in what you just said. It's like I I also want to just take a moment to identify ableism because there's there is a thread of that within this conversation always. And I think it's important to separate that out too, because many people don't have the ability to wake up and move their bodies easily at a very young age. And we're all different in how we feel when we would wake up in the morning at our older ages. So I think really looking at, so where is my ableism? And I have it, I will, I will quickly say it's one of the things that I'm trying to recognize is that some of this is straight-up ableism that I that I need to also see within myself. So I I think that's important to name. It just helps to name things because then you can like get curious about it, not judge yourself for it, and recognize that of course you feel that way. And if you've worked with the undieting, as you say, if you've worked with your anti-fat bias and your fat phobia, you already have the skill set. This is the same thing. It's identifying that you have a lot of stories about being older just as you did about weight or about being in a larger size body. It's the same exact systemic belief system that you've inherited that once you start to recognize it, like I'm too old to wear that, or I'm too old to start that, or I'm I'm not gonna try to change, I'm too old. I'm it's already too late for me. Like those thoughts that you may not even notice that you're having, or you may hear other people have. Oh, you look so great for your age as an automatic compliment. Oh, you haven't changed a bit, you haven't aged one bit, just as like you look great if you lost weight. It's the same thing. Yeah. That we just automatically make older bad and and younger the goal, appearing younger, passing as younger as like your goal.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's why for for women more so than men, again, making sweeping generalizations. But you know, when we get this midlife, messy middle of menopause, aging, patriarchal expectations of what you know we should and shouldn't do, compared to men who historically, culturally have been allowed to age like a fine wine. You know, we have that kind of language in our culture as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

And I had a conversation with someone a few months ago about this. It was in a in a larger group talking about, you know, anti-aging treatments and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And one woman said, you know what, I'm done with it all. I don't care. I'm tired of like chasing this, this youthfulness. And then the person sitting next to her said, I get what you're saying, but I really like how my skin looks when it's plump and firm and has fewer wrinkles. And what's wrong with that? And it was such an interesting, it was a respectful discussion, but it was interesting to see those two things. Cause yeah, we all have autonomy. We can all choose what we want to do. Um, but I think that it's hard to separate. Is it something that you actually want to do, or is it something that you feel like you have to do?

SPEAKER_00:

So important, yes, to have that inquiry within yourself. It's like, is this something I really value? You use the word values. I think really getting clarity around your values and then recognizing how you're making choices around those values. And there may be a point that you shift and change. I like you, I really honor autonomy and that, especially bodily autonomy, that we there are just as many ways to age as there are to live a life. There are many different ways. We have these super agers that we lift up, and you know, I think there's um I have a mixed feelings about that, because again, there is ableism in that, so much ableism in that, that there's there's there's the glorification of doing one particular thing. And if you're not, like, what does that mean? Like, what is what starts to bubble up in you if you see somebody doing superhuman things at you know, 80 years of age? And how do you start to feel about yourself? What kind of doubt starts to be planted within you about not being good enough? And I think getting curious about that, like when you feel like you're not enough, that you're not doing it right, that your body is not like measuring up, so to speak, then you may need to step back or unfollow or mute or like not listen, turn it off. Because I don't think that's helpful. And you mentioned like how does that hook our like I must work harder story? Yeah. And that can be very harmful. That is when a lot of people relapse into their previous eating disorder or their obsessive exercise, because our culture so normalizes all of the like counting this and that and pushing goals that are not really natural and normal in a person's daily life, you would have to really, really maybe obsess, probably obsess. Absolutely. To get that number of protein grams of blah, blah, blah. For example, yes, fiber grams. I mean, it's always it's a moving target, but that's another podcast. That's another podcast. Yes, exactly. But the same with our movement. I mean, I just last night, so another thing about like, you know, we've been hit over the head with that heavy lifting and strength training. That's we all got the message. And now jumping. But last night I was like this big research on dementia and like cardiovascular health, and not just going for a walk, like pushing it hard. And I was like, oh, I just like literally put my hands on my head. I was like, oh my God, it just won't stop. It just won't stop. And I'm not saying like continuing to move your body is absolutely a really good idea. Yes. And like sometimes the feeling that we have to spend half our day on doing all these things, I don't know to what end. I'm not sure. Again, it's a values clarification opportunity.

SPEAKER_01:

So if some somebody wants to age unapologetically, um, a little kind of hint nod towards your book, Unapologetic Aging, which comes out on December 16th, right? Yes, exactly. Obviously, this is your passion, your life's work, and you put it into this book. What would what does that process look like? Because again, I feel like diet culture and wellness culture people see and they see other types of isms and prejudice and stereotypes, but not really. This is a new, it's going to be a new one for a lot of people. This idea that A, there's some internalized ageism, but also that it's okay to age unapologetically, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah. Yeah. The well, the first part of my book is really about untangling all these belief systems, how untangling yourself from ageism, internalized ageism, especially, and diet culture in general, because there's this intersection where it all feels like it presses in on you. Like you've got a target on your back for so many multi-trillion dollar businesses and industries that are trying to sell you things. And to sell that, they have to create the problem. They have to create a problem that you will then seek as a consumer to fix. Absolutely. So untangling all of that is the first part of the book. And then I turn toward how do you mend your relationship with your body. And therein lies that happy middle, that sweet spot with yes, moving, with yes, making particular choices that support your well-being, while you also really prioritize your mental health and your I think protecting yourself from relapsing or developing an eating disorder. That's why I wrote the book, because I just saw so many people relapsing or developing eating disorders in a very silent way, in a very secret, like this is my secret, and receiving lots of affirmation for doing that. So I just wanted to give people another place to consider that you can take care of yourself and live well if you're fortunate as you get older. And a lot of this is outside of our control. And the things you can control, can you do it without getting extreme? As you know, nutrition really has gotten so extreme. And I'm here to say, as a dietitian, it's not that complicated. Yeah, I agree. It's not that complicated. There are differences in our needs when we're in midlife and older, that's real, and we have to talk about it. I'd like to talk about it, without getting over the edge with it and being so fear-based in the tone.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And do you have a word to describe that? And this is what I mean. So sometimes people will say, like, oh, I'm not anti-aging, I'm I'm pro-aging, or I'm aging well, or I'm whatever. Is there a word that describes that beautiful sweet spot that you described?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, when it comes to age, I have had a hard time finding the right word because pro-aging, I originally really loved because it implies pushing against the anti-aging industry. However, the pro-aging, if you I did it this morning, if you put in the hashtag pro aging, you're going to see a lot of very thin bodies. Very, very thin bodies. So it's very confusing for people to to not feel like what they have to do. The only way that it's okay to look older is if you're also thin.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You can let your hair gray, but you have to stay thin to be aging well. So there's a lot of pressure. So age age affirming is a word that I'm that's what I'm doing now. But it's just like dye culture words. I mean, body positivity, nope. That's not working anymore. Body love, nope. That's not working anymore. Healthy, nope. That doesn't, I mean, it's so many things have been co-opted. I mean, intuitive eating. I mean, now is like intuitive fasting. I mean, is mindful eating, nope, mindful dieting. Everything's co-opted. So finding the word for you, I think we just need to each and every one of us need to feel what lands well. And it may change. Probably.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll keep an eye on, I'll keep an eye on what you're doing and follow your lead on it. Okay, I'll keep looking. So if somebody is listening and they really feel like, yep, this is me and I and I want to explore this, what would be a few things that somebody could start with before they pick up your book? Because your book is amazing and really walks you through all of these things. But what are some things that people can start with?

SPEAKER_00:

I think every single time you feel judgy about like feeling snug in your clothing or noticing a new wrinkle or spot or dimple, or to really notice where you go with that. To see if you can develop some space in your life or curiosity around this self-dialogue and start to notice the thread of ageism, the way you're blaming yourself for getting older. I mean, I like to laugh because I think you've got to carry this stuff with some humor because it's pretty heavy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

When I can laugh at myself, it helps.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I sometimes that is all you can do is laugh.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, really, it's just so ridiculous. Yes. I mean, to think that I should freeze my body in time and never look as if I'm living. It's it's all just preposterous if you start to look at it. It's ridiculousness. So I think that little bit of slowing down and noticing what's underneath. And then the other thing is like, what what am I afraid of losing? What why is this so scary? What is and is that real? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Most of the time it probably isn't. It's probably part of the story, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, mostly, mostly. And recognizing that it is a story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's not necessarily from you.

SPEAKER_01:

So much unlearning to do. Um, Deb, before I let you know, what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, freedom is my fave.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I love it. I can't remember what you said the first time, but I love that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I am I have a very significant rebellious streak that when I see that in my clients and others, I see it as protective. I think it protects us when we're rebellious and we're pushing against the current. Yeah. The pressures. So my I am seeking freedom from all of the constraints and all the stories. So that's that's what I'm hoping for.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. Yeah. So where can people pick up your new book?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, anywhere books are sold, but on my website, there's a link to an independent bookstore, and you can get signed copies if you buy from them. And yeah, that's where I hope people will go. So my website is just my name, DebraBanfield.com.

SPEAKER_01:

And we'll have that in the show notes for sure. And the book is called Unapologetic Aging and it comes. out on December 16th. Yes. Congratulations. Correct.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks so much for joining me. Um, as always, it was so nice to talk to you, Deb.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, great to talk to you. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Midlife Feast. If you're ready to take the next step towards thriving in midlife, head to menopause nutritionist.ca to learn more about my one-to-one and group coaching programs, free resources, and where to get your copy of Eat to Thrive during menopause. And if you've loved today's conversation and found it helpful, please share it with a friend who needs to hear this and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps so many more people just like you find their way to food freedom and midlife confidence. Until next time, remember midlife is not the end of the story, it's the feast. Let's savor it together

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Dr. Jenn Salib Huber RD ND

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